(upbeat, cheery music) >>I'm Darryl Owens.
Welcome to "A World of Difference: Embracing Neuro-diversity."
What do you call a child who tests as gifted and has a diagnosed learning or attention issue?
It's not a riddle, but rather a reality for at least 6% of students believe to be what is known as twice exceptional.
2E children, as a shorthand goes, are intellectually gifted and neuro-diversion, living with at least one learning disabilities such as ADHD, dyslexia, autism, or other learning differences.
Because of that profile, one in which their intellectual prowess may camouflage their disability or their clear cut disability lands them in a special education setting with students below their academic level, schools often find serving 2E students proves to be a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
It's no wonder that twice exceptional students are among the most under-identified and under-served cohorts in schools.
On this episode, revisit an Arizona twice exceptional teenager who, through her podcast, is giving voice and shedding light on the 2E life.
Next, our expert panel delves deeper into the dynamics of twice exceptionality and how parents can best support and advocate for their kids.
Later, you'll meet our latest difference maker, a world-renowned paleontologist whose success with science helped him bury his struggles with undiagnosed dyslexia.
First, we meet up with 11th grade podcaster who wants the world to know that when it comes to 2E kids, they should be sure to underline the word exceptional.
Health Day Special Correspondent, Mabel Jong, brings us her story.
(upbeat techno music) >>Meet Cate Dunn, an 11th grader from Phoenix, Arizona.
An avid baker and enthusiastic reader, Cate is interested in studying child psychiatry and one day becoming a developmental pediatrician.
>>I really wanna work with kids who have things like neuro-diversity and kind of help them through the diagnostic process and things like that.
>>It's a subject that Cate knows well.
She was tested early for giftedness due to her math and reading abilities, but it wasn't until she was 10 that she also received a diagnosis for ADHD, making her gifted and neuro-divergent, twice exceptional, or 2E.
2E kids like Cate, at the intersection of educational ability and disability, can be tough to spot.
Gifted students may use their skills to cover their struggles or the other way around.
The challenges may hide a child's giftedness.
>>I have a lot of hyperactivity.
That's always been an issue for me.
I really can't sit still.
I always need to wiggle and I've had a lot of sensory type issues, which I know generally seems to apply more to autism, but I have really bad sensory processing-type issues.
Like, when I was younger, I would scream, but whenever my dad would touch my ears, 'cause I got my ears pierced at a young age, and, like, I am very sensitive to a lot of stuff, so, like, a lot of that has also played into it.
A little bit of the impulsivity and attention stuff, but I've never really had that many issues with, like, daydreaming or anything, but the reason I feel like it took so long to get me diagnosed was because I was diagnosed or tested for giftedness when I was in, like, kindergarten, so it's kind of that thing of, like, if you have this, then it doesn't make sense for you to have this as well.
>>And once identified, it can take work for 2E kids to get the right mix of support.
How did you find ways to get what you needed at school for both the gifted part of yourself and also for your ADHD?
>>The main support for me has actually just been advocating for myself, in a sense, because I've had to, like, go to my teachers, be like, "This is what I need.
This is what needs to be done."
And that, for the giftedness, my mom really had to fight for me when I was younger to get me the support I needed through moving up in math, through that, but after that it was just kind of like, this is the system we have.
This is what we're gonna continue to do, but a lot of my ADHD stuff, after I was diagnosed, I've really just had to advocate for myself and be like, I'm gonna need to move around.
I need to sit closer to the front because I won't be able to stay focused if I sit farther back and things like that because I find that, if you advocate for yourself and really are willing to just make the move to talk for yourself, then it usually works out fairly well.
>>And there are other strategies that Cate deploys to keep her mind focused.
>>When I take notes, I like to do a thing where I kind of color code the notes a little bit.
So, I have four colored pencils I always keep on me, and so, like, I highlight certain things like headings, definitions, important terms, stuff like that 'cause I find if I make the notes look more fun, then I'm more likely to take more time and care when I'm doing them than if I'm just writing really quickly to try to keep up with everything, so those have worked for me fairly well.
In addition, when I do homework, I like to listen to music a lot because that kind of fills some of that empty space in the back of my head.
So, that kind of helps me keep my homework on track.
I like to listen to, like, podcasts and other stuff like that when I'm doing other tasks that are not, like, schoolwork-related because that also just helps me continue moving.
I do have one of those clock things in my room that has, like, a color thing, it's like a 60 minute color thing, to help counteract the time blindness and I use that mostly with studying because studying has, like, less strict deadlines on when you finish.
>>When you start a new term, what do you make sure is in place at school to help you succeed?
>>And then, oftentimes, it's just kind of making sure they know this is what I need.
This is how you can help me get there.
These are some signs you might see that might not be normal for you.
For example, the fact that I have to stand up a lot, but it's not gonna be a problem, especially if you let me stand in the side of the room where I'm not gonna be in the way of anyone, and then just really building those networks with your teachers anyway in all sorts of forms so you feel very, like, close with them.
It'll help you a lot because that'll help you in general.
It's kind of making sure they know who you are, what you're needing, and everything about that and a lot of them will be willing to do whatever you need to do.
>>And knowing just how to support 2E students with whatever they need to succeed can be challenging.
So, Kate started a podcast to build understanding and to provide education on neuro-diversity, with a special focus on the twice exceptional experience.
>>So, with ADHD in general, first, the big thing that I've experienced is mostly related to gender actually because a lot of people don't understand that females can also have ADHD and also, not everyone has the hyperactivity part of ADHD.
Even if I have very bad hyperactivity part, a lot of people still don't really believe it's a thing exactly because if you have any type of difficulty with learning, they don't think that you can necessarily be smart, or especially be exceptionally smart, and if you already had the giftedness part, it makes it way harder to get the diagnosis for the other part because people already are, like, "Well, clearly you're good at school, so there's no way you can have some sort of difficulty in school," even though you can have both because a lot of times, they affect you in different ways.
So, we can continue to educate people and teach people about everything they need and then continue to build this community where they can feel like they can support each other, where they feel like they can, like, find the support and education they need about their own experiences and relates to other people, kind of form that network for different people on where they can talk to them and learn more about their experiences and relate their experiences to their own experiences.
Today, I'm gonna be interviewing one of my classmates, Celeste, who has autism and was willing to share with us her experiences.
>>For "A World of Difference, I'm Mabel Jong.
(upbeat techno music) >>Thanks, Mabel.
Next, our experts take a closer look at twice exceptional kids.
(smooth techno music) Dr. Verna Lowe is the Associate Dean and Academic Director of Initial Licensure Programs for the School of Education at Western Governor's University.
In her career, Dr. Lowe developed and modeled a support program for students with learning disabilities in addition to teaching and serving as a school psychologist.
Day Sanchez is a school psychologist, education specialist, and the founder of 2E Minds, a company that supports the optimal psychological, creative, spiritual, and socio-emotional development of neuro-diverse and twice exceptional children.
Tresha Stevens is a learning specialist at Beacon College in Leesburg, Florida and is a certified, gifted and talented specialist who served as a gifted and talented resource teacher for the Falcon District 49 in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
Dr. Jane Tobias is an assistant professor in the Jefferson College of Nursing at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Dr. Tobias, a pediatric nurse practitioner, brings her primary care, pediatric expertise to the Jefferson Center for Autism and Neuro-diversity, where she focuses her work on creating inclusive healthcare access for individuals with autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability.
Dr. Lowe, we're gonna kick off the conversation with you.
How do you define twice exceptionality?
>>Well, I define it in several ways.
I will share that, but first of all, it, there are several layers with this.
In other words, a twice exceptional learner would have advanced cognitive ability, a type of giftedness, as well as an ability, a disability, which could be dyslexia, dysgraphia, attention deficit disorder, and, or autism, or others.
But the one way I describe it, another way I describe it, is that gifted children have the potential for high performance, but they struggle with different aspects of learning.
So, they may have a wonderful vocabulary, advance ideas, can problem solve, but they may have a range of cognitive disabilities that impact their reading, their math, ability to socialize and understand social context.
>>All right.
Thank you, Dr. Lowe.
Day Sanchez, because definitions of twice exceptionality can vary at both the state and local levels, as I understand it, there really isn't any one specific definition for twice exceptionality and because of that, is it important for families to develop their own definitions to be able to advocate properly for their children?
>>Well, that's a really good question and I would say that maybe it's not about developing their own definitions of twice exceptionality, but maybe advocating for those definitions of giftedness that are a little bit more liberal and more inclusive and that are able to capture the three different groups of twice exceptional students that are out there.
So, we have those students who are highly advanced and have many talents that might overshadow the disabilities.
Then, we have the opposite group where the disabilities might overshadow and overpower the talents.
And then we have a third group where the talents and the disabilities mask each other and so, those definitions that are able to capture all those three groups and that having to account more talent domains, like the creative domain, and maybe high abilities in sports and things like that, those are going to be helpful for families to advocate for their children.
>>Thank you.
So, Tresha, because there isn't a universal definition, there really isn't a typical 2E child, but I'm wondering, do twice exceptional children at least share some common characteristics?
>>Thanks for asking, Darryl.
Even though the twice exceptional population is small, it's quite diverse.
Oftentimes, we'll see 2E children who are described as experts in at least one particular area.
Maybe they have an extensive vocabulary or can discuss dinosaurs in great and correct detail.
Often, they're highly creative and can solve problems in very imaginative ways.
Many times, they're a student who has a difficult time in an environment where executive functioning skills are necessary, like school.
2E students may have messy handwriting.
They may have a hard time keeping up with classwork and homework.
Sometimes, they're easily frustrated.
Friendships are sometimes hard for them because they don't always honor personal space.
Sometimes, they don't honor or recognize when others have had enough.
Many have sensitivities that lead to very strong reactions, maybe to sounds, tastes, light, and textures.
2E children often end up with labels such as intense, busy, quirky, moody, lazy, non-compliant, disorganized, inconsistent, and misunderstood.
>>So, thank you, Tresha, for that answer.
Dr. Tobias, it seems to me that one of the issues with parenting 2E children is that the diagnosis itself can be complex.
Why is it so hard to diagnose these children?
>>Absolutely, and I think the first reason is these kids are a dichotomy.
They're gifted on one hand, but have so many challenges and difficulties on the other hand, and most schools essentially teach in one way and if we're not learning in that way, then we're gonna have great difficulty mastering the subject, mastering the content.
And we know that, when that happens, a lot of times, these children are labeled as lazy, not putting forth the effort, not being motivated.
And again, if they're not taught in the way in which they learn, which is very unique, then they aren't going to be successful.
According to the law, it is the school's responsibility to provide that free education and appropriate education and I think that's the key, appropriate.
2E children learn differently and it's uncovering that way of learning.
It's important to separate, and I think this is key, ability from performance.
If they're not progressing, then we need to look a little deeper.
Why is that?
And I just wanna leave you with this analogy of when I explain to parents what 2E means.
Imagine if you were in a row boat and you have two healthy arms that work equally together.
When they row together, you're rowing in a straight line and eventually, you're getting to your destination, but in children with 2E, they have one arm which is supersonic, which is muscular and has all this strength, and then the other arm is just average.
When they start to row, right?
They're going to go in a circle because that supersonic arm is going to take over.
>>Do you have questions about learning disabilities?
Our experts want to hear from you.
Visit our website awodtv.org to ask a question.
We'll contact you to record you asking your question to air on an upcoming episode.
Our experts look forward to providing you actionable tips that make a world of difference.
(upbeat techno music) Next, let's reveal our latest difference maker.
Though not impossible, it's pretty tough to find young boys who aren't fascinated by dinosaurs, and it's about as difficult to find young boys who don't like digging in the dirt.
Indeed, as a boy, John Jack Horner plunged his tools into the soil and found his first dinosaur bone at age eight.
As an adult, Horner parlayed those childhood passions into some momentous Jurassic discoveries that, as it turns out, proved boffo at the box office.
All this from the man who, as a high schooler, achieved poor grades in most subjects, owing to undiagnosed dyslexia.
Yet, Horner blinded them with science.
Correspondent Bassey Arikpo brings us his story.
(upbeat techno music) >>John Jack Horner is an accomplished paleontologist, noted for several groundbreaking discoveries, who famously contributed his expertise to the "Jurassic Park" franchise.
Despite these impressive exploits, Horner found his journey to success impeded early on by a challenge as imposing as a T-Rex, undiagnosed dyslexia.
Even as he struggled, nature took its course for Horner, who had a love of exploring the outdoors, science, and most notably, discovering dinosaurs.
>>As a young kid, I was always outside looking for stuff, exploring.
Born and raised in Shelby, Montana.
When it came to school, I was, I didn't like going to school.
I would do, you know, the most I could and then, all the time, I'd just be daydreaming about being outside.
At least that by six years old, I was fascinated by fossils and so fascinated by fossils and the idea of dinosaurs that my father, when I was eight years old, my father took me to a place where I could find a dinosaur and I found my first dinosaur bone.
(gentle techno music) My mother, you know, she didn't know what was wrong with me.
She knew there was something wrong.
Even though she didn't understand why I was failing all my classes, she'd still drive me out to my dinosaur sites and when I was in high school, you know, flunking virtually every subject, I would make science projects.
In science projects, I could work on it at my own speed, do my own research, take my, take time.
My sophomore, junior, and senior years in high school, I won the science, the local science fair.
(gentle techno music) >>Horner's love and passion for the sciences granted him a very unique opportunity, an opportunity that unfortunately slipped through his fingertips more than a few times.
>>The judges, who were professors at a university, invited me to come to the University of Montana to study geology.
I flunked out of college seven different times and when I left, I knew how to curate fossils.
I had studied paleontology.
I applied for a bunch of jobs and I got a job at Princeton University as a technician.
>>While adjusting to his new life at Princeton, Horner was still unaware of his learning difference, but being on that campus eventually would lead to a new perspective on himself and how he truly saw the world.
>>And I was walking around the campus and there was this big sign.
It was like a bulletin board sign, and it was meant for the students, and it said, "Would you rather go to a movie than read a book?
And would you rather make a phone call than write a letter?"
And it says, "If you answer yes to these questions, come see us at such and such an office on campus."
And they did a little test and declared that I was severely dyslexic.
Dyslexia can be so many different things and my learning difference is that I just don't have a short term memory.
You know, people can give me a four digit number and I can't remember it.
So, when people say, you know, dyslexics mix up their I's and their E's, well, it's because somebody tells you which one should be first and you can't remember.
So, here's a bone, right?
So, this is a human thigh bone.
If you show this to a person, most people could memorize and know, I mean, they, you know, that this is a human femur.
I understand this spatially, completely, and I, and that's how I look at the world.
I mean, I'm very detail-oriented.
If you gave me just a tiny piece of this, I would know it was a human, a piece of a human femur.
>>As a visual learner, one could say Horner possessed the perfect skill for paleontology.
His work eventually led him back to Montana, where he made the discovery of his life.
>>I always chose my research projects based on things that no one else had really ever done.
No one had found baby dinosaurs before, so I could do research on baby dinosaurs and didn't have to read very much.
Baby dinosaurs hadn't been found in North America.
They hadn't been found in the Western Hemisphere.
My question was, where are the babies?
You know?
How come there aren't any baby dinosaurs?
We ran into a friend and he said, "By the way, there's this woman over in this town of Binum that has a rock shop and she has found a dinosaur and she wants it identified."
And so we went there and we were in her rock shop and she showed us the dinosaur skeleton that she had found, and it was a big one.
I identified it for her and as we were leaving her rock shop, she said, "Oh, by the way, what are these?"
And she held out her hand and in her hand were three baby dinosaur bones, three baby dinosaur bones, and I just almost fell over.
We went back, went out there, and there was this little hill that was covered with baby dinosaur bones.
And so, Bob and I got permission from the landowner.
We started digging and literally, what we were digging was a dinosaur nest with baby dinosaurs in it.
And, of course, it was the first baby dinosaur nest found in the world.
>>Horner's work would capture the attention of many, including important figures in the entertainment industry.
>>I wrote a book in 1988 called "Digging Dinosaurs."
Year later, Michael Crichton picked that book up, and he read that book, and he creates this character, Alan Grant, based on the guy that finds dinosaurs in Montana.
When Steven Spielberg called me and asked me to be the technical advisor, he said, "What I want you to do is work with our modeling people and make sure the dinosaurs are as accurate as we can make them, scientifically.
Make sure the actors are pronouncing their dinosaur names correctly and, you know, go through the script, make sure that it's, you know, it doesn't have any glaring mistakes."
>>For those living with dyslexia, Horner offers advice that may seem rather unconventional, but prove critical to his success.
>>You don't even want to be fixed because when you get out into the real world, our spatial way of thinking gets us great jobs and we excel at a lot of things.
Just bear with it.
Just deal with it.
But, follow your passion.
I mean, just believe in yourself.
You don't want to fix a dyslexic.
Realize that they think different.
They learn differently.
They're never going to be like everybody else and that is the best thing ever.
>>For "A World of Difference," I'm Bassey Arikpo.
(upbeat techno music) >>Thanks, Bassey, and congratulations, Jack Horner, for making a difference.
And that does it for this edition of "A World of Difference: Embracing Neuro-diversity."
I'm Darryl Owens.
I'll see you back here next time.
You can watch episodes of "A World of Difference" on the Beacon College Facebook and YouTube channels, and on the show's website, awodtv.org.
The website also provides tip sheets and other resources for your parenting journey.
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(upbeat, cheery music) (low whooshing sound)