WEBVTT 00:01.134 --> 00:02.902 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - He's an award-winning physicist and author, 00:02.902 --> 00:04.537 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% host of the PBS series 00:04.537 --> 00:08.108 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% "Searching: Our Quest for 00:04.537 --> 00:08.108 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Me  00:04.537 --> 00:08.108 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% aning in the Age of Science", 00:08.108 --> 00:09.876 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% and he grew up in a Memphis family 00:09.876 --> 00:12.312 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% whose business was movie theaters. 00:12.312 --> 00:13.747 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% I'm George Larrimore, 00:13.747 --> 00:16.282 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and this is A Conversation with Alan Lightman. 00:16.282 --> 00:18.885 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% [gentle music] 00:26.960 --> 00:29.596 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Welcome, everybody, this is A Conversation With. 00:29.596 --> 00:31.564 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Today, we're talking with Alan Lightman. 00:31.564 --> 00:32.999 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Alan, thank you for being with us. 00:32.999 --> 00:34.601 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Thanks for having me, George. 00:34.601 --> 00:37.737 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - We are at the Malco Studio on the Square Theater, 00:37.737 --> 00:39.305 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% and I guess you'd say 00:39.305 --> 00:43.176 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% that the Malco theaters are in you at the atomic level. 00:43.176 --> 00:44.477 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% - Yes, that's right. 00:44.477 --> 00:46.579 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - And your grandfather started this business? 00:46.579 --> 00:48.848 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% - Yes, in 1915. 00:48.848 --> 00:50.383 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - 1915. 00:50.383 --> 00:52.719 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Now, we'll talk more about your connection with Memphis 00:52.719 --> 00:54.854 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and your life in Memphis in a few minutes, but right now, 00:54.854 --> 00:58.191 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% let's get started with why we're here, which is to talk 00:58.191 --> 01:01.061 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% about a remarkable series that you are the host of. 01:01.061 --> 01:02.695 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It's called "Searching: Our Quest 01:02.695 --> 01:05.231 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% for Meaning in the Age of Science". 01:05.231 --> 01:08.101 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Now, the series starts with you lying on your back 01:08.101 --> 01:11.538 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in a boat in the water near the coast of Maine, 01:11.538 --> 01:14.174 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% near an island in Maine where you have a house, 01:14.174 --> 01:18.144 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and you had a moment there gazing up at the stars. 01:18.144 --> 01:20.613 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% Tell us what happened with you. 01:20.613 --> 01:23.983 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% - Well, it was after midnight. 01:23.983 --> 01:27.020 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% There were no other boats on the water, very quiet. 01:27.020 --> 01:29.355 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% It was a dark night, and I was coming back 01:29.355 --> 01:32.892 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% to the island in my boat, 01:32.892 --> 01:35.995 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% and it was a very starry night, 01:35.995 --> 01:38.565 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and I decided to turn off the engine of the boat, 01:38.565 --> 01:40.633 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% and it got even more quiet. 01:40.633 --> 01:42.535 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% I turned off the running lights of the boat. 01:42.535 --> 01:45.605 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% It got even darker, and I lay down 01:45.605 --> 01:49.909 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% on the bottom of the boat and looked up at the stars, 01:51.010 --> 01:53.213 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% and after a few moments, 01:53.213 --> 01:56.749 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I felt like I was falling into infinity. 01:56.749 --> 02:00.286 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% I felt like I was merging with the stars, 02:00.286 --> 02:03.890 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% merging with something much larger than myself, 02:05.225 --> 02:09.429 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and there was another experience 02:05.225 --> 02:09.429 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% ha  02:05.225 --> 02:09.429 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ving to do with time. 02:09.429 --> 02:14.367 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I felt that the vast expansive time extending 02:14.367 --> 02:17.937 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% in the far distant past before I was born 02:17.937 --> 02:22.175 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and into the far distant future after I'll be dead, 02:22.175 --> 02:24.944 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% seemed compressed to a dot. 02:24.944 --> 02:29.949 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I lost all sense of myself, all sense of where I was, 02:30.817 --> 02:34.120 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% who I was in just that moment, 02:34.120 --> 02:37.757 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and it was a profound feeling of being part 02:37.757 --> 02:39.893 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% of something larger than myself. 02:39.893 --> 02:42.595 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Now, you wrote a book about it, and the book, 02:42.595 --> 02:46.799 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I guess, if I'm right, is the genesis for this series. 02:46.799 --> 02:50.937 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - That's correct, yeah, the director and producer, 02:50.937 --> 02:53.706 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% Geoffrey Haines-Stiles, read the book, 02:53.706 --> 02:56.476 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% which is called "Searching for Stars on an Island in Maine". 02:56.476 --> 02:59.512 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% He read it about four or five years ago, 02:59.512 --> 03:02.649 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and he contacted me and said that he would like to make 03:02.649 --> 03:06.853 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% a television series based on the book, 03:06.853 --> 03:10.790 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and he's a very distinguished filmmaker, 03:12.892 --> 03:17.463 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and I said, "Well, if it's going to be a straight science series, 03:19.165 --> 03:23.236 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% "thank you, but no thanks, but if you can include 03:23.236 --> 03:25.838 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% "the philosophical and theological 03:25.838 --> 03:28.575 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% "and ethical dimensions of science which the book does, 03:28.575 --> 03:30.310 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% then I would be interested." 03:30.310 --> 03:32.212 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So that began our collaboration, 03:32.212 --> 03:35.682 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and we worked for about three years on the project. 03:35.682 --> 03:37.483 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Now, if we could go back for a second to talk 03:37.483 --> 03:40.787 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% about him and the executive producer as well, 03:40.787 --> 03:44.891 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% he was a, Jeff was one of the producers on "Cosmos", 03:44.891 --> 03:49.095 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the Carl Sagan series, which made sense to people 03:50.997 --> 03:54.801 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% about science who didn't necessarily understand science. 03:54.801 --> 03:56.936 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% That's a good league to be in, 03:56.936 --> 03:59.239 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% a good conversation to be in for both of you. 03:59.239 --> 04:01.441 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Yes, he had made and made a number 04:01.441 --> 04:06.446 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% of documentaries since then, and his partner, 04:07.814 --> 04:12.252 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Erna Akuginow also has worked with him for many years, 04:13.119 --> 04:14.587 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and they're both prize winners, 04:14.587 --> 04:18.558 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and I knew that he was a very distinguished director. 04:18.558 --> 04:22.161 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Now again, straighten me out where I'm wrong. 04:22.161 --> 04:26.699 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% It seems to me that you were, as a viewer, 04:26.699 --> 04:29.636 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that you were not necessarily trying to answer 04:29.636 --> 04:32.438 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% all the questions, but you were trying to get us 04:32.438 --> 04:36.242 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to ask ourselves questions as we watch it. 04:36.242 --> 04:38.411 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Yes, that's right, I've always thought 04:38.411 --> 04:42.582 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that the most profound questions don't have answers, 04:42.582 --> 04:46.386 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that they provoke us and stimulate our thought, 04:46.386 --> 04:49.088 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and that's what we're trying to do 04:49.088 --> 04:51.190 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% with the series is make people think 04:51.190 --> 04:52.792 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% about some of these big questions 04:52.792 --> 04:56.896 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% like what is our place in the cosmos? 04:59.032 --> 05:02.702 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Or how do our material neurons produce 05:02.702 --> 05:06.239 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the incredible experiences that we have? 05:07.940 --> 05:10.176 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Now, you come at this as a scientist, 05:10.176 --> 05:14.247 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that you require proof of what you believe. 05:15.381 --> 05:20.186 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% You talk about and with very well-known, 05:21.554 --> 05:24.357 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% very well-respected scientists in this series. 05:24.357 --> 05:27.460 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% What is it that you're trying to get us to see 05:27.460 --> 05:30.697 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% through their eyes, in terms of what they're seeing 05:30.697 --> 05:33.566 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% in terms of science? 05:33.566 --> 05:37.236 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% - Well, I think the most important thing is 05:37.236 --> 05:40.073 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% their passion for what they do. 05:41.341 --> 05:43.509 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% The scientists that I talk to, 05:43.509 --> 05:45.912 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% they're not doing it to make a lot of money. 05:45.912 --> 05:49.782 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They're not doing it to make a faster sports car 05:49.782 --> 05:51.150 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% or a better washing machine. 05:51.150 --> 05:56.155 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They're doing it because they're passionate 05:57.290 --> 05:59.926 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% about learning about the universe 05:59.926 --> 06:03.529 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and learning about us, human beings on Earth, 06:04.697 --> 06:06.866 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% so that's the most important thing. 06:08.301 --> 06:10.536 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Of course, each one of the scientists I talk to has 06:10.536 --> 06:12.038 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% their own discipline. 06:12.038 --> 06:14.674 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% There's a biologist who's trying to create 06:14.674 --> 06:16.676 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% a living cell from scratch. 06:17.810 --> 06:21.547 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% There's a physicist who's detecting 06:21.547 --> 06:25.184 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% gravitational waves emitted by colliding black holes 06:25.184 --> 06:26.919 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% a billion light years away. 06:28.020 --> 06:31.257 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% But they're all trying to find out more 06:31.257 --> 06:34.560 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% about the strange universe that we live in, 06:34.560 --> 06:39.232 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and I find that very refreshing 06:39.232 --> 06:42.168 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that there are people who are just interested 06:42.168 --> 06:43.669 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% in pure knowledge. 06:43.669 --> 06:46.339 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They're not interested in advancing their careers. 06:47.540 --> 06:50.009 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% They don't have a political agenda. 06:50.009 --> 06:53.813 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% They're just trying to learn about the universe. 06:53.813 --> 06:57.383 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Is that the life you've lived as a scientist? 06:57.383 --> 07:01.120 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - That is the life that I've lived as a scientist. 07:01.120 --> 07:04.390 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% I was interested in the arts from a young age, 07:04.390 --> 07:09.395 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and of course, the arts, their fuel is ambiguity. 07:10.530 --> 07:13.699 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% You don't have definite answers in the arts. 07:13.699 --> 07:16.769 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% You ask questions that don't have definite answers. 07:16.769 --> 07:20.706 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I had that kind of duality from a young age 07:20.706 --> 07:24.110 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of being interested both in questions with answers 07:24.110 --> 07:27.547 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and questions without answers, and I was lucky enough 07:27.547 --> 07:30.249 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% to have been able to pursue a career 07:31.417 --> 07:34.020 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% in which I was both a scientist and a writer. 07:34.887 --> 07:36.389 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% - I've read that you said, 07:36.389 --> 07:39.659 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% "I believe the universe is atoms and nothing more, 07:39.659 --> 07:42.995 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% but how could I feel what I feel?" 07:42.995 --> 07:46.365 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% Now, that again going back to the night in the boat, 07:46.365 --> 07:48.901 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% talk to me about that. 07:48.901 --> 07:52.772 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - Well, I have to say that at the end of the day, 07:52.772 --> 07:54.941 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I'm still a materialist. 07:54.941 --> 07:59.946 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I still believe that the world is made of atoms and molecules, 08:02.148 --> 08:04.584 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% but the special arrangement 08:04.584 --> 08:08.921 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% of those atoms and molecules in our brains allows us 08:08.921 --> 08:12.492 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% these extraordinary experiences, 08:12.492 --> 08:15.862 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% like feeling part of the stars in the sky, 08:15.862 --> 08:19.899 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% or communing with nature, or falling in love. 08:19.899 --> 08:22.735 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And we don't really understand how you get 08:22.735 --> 08:25.771 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% from the material neurons of the brain 08:25.771 --> 08:29.208 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% to these complex human experiences. 08:29.208 --> 08:30.910 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% Even though I do believe 08:30.910 --> 08:33.613 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that all of our experiences are rooted 08:33.613 --> 08:35.081 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% in the material brain, 08:36.482 --> 08:38.484 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% neuroscientists still have not been able to fill 08:38.484 --> 08:42.321 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% in all the blanks to get from those material neurons 08:42.321 --> 08:46.025 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% to consciousness, or falling in love, 08:46.025 --> 08:48.995 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% or all of the other amazing experiences 08:48.995 --> 08:51.197 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% that our human brains are capable of. 08:51.197 --> 08:54.567 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% So I'm a materialist, 08:54.567 --> 08:58.037 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but I call myself a spiritual materialist, 08:58.037 --> 09:00.706 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% because I have these spiritual experiences 09:00.706 --> 09:02.942 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% like everybody else does. 09:02.942 --> 09:05.144 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% The lying in the boat looking up at the stars 09:05.144 --> 09:07.713 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and feeling part of them was an example of one. 09:07.713 --> 09:09.348 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% We all have these kinds 09:09.348 --> 09:13.219 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% of spiritual transcendent experiences, 09:13.219 --> 09:16.722 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and so I acknowledge those experiences, 09:16.722 --> 09:21.727 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I embrace them, I'm honored by them, 09:23.296 --> 09:25.698 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but I do believe that ultimately, everything 09:25.698 --> 09:28.301 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% is rooted in the material brain. 09:29.802 --> 09:32.638 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Spiritual experiences, now, this may sound odd, 09:32.638 --> 09:35.408 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% but there's a scene where you're on your knees 09:35.408 --> 09:38.411 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% in the backyard with a magnifying glass in your hand, 09:38.411 --> 09:40.446 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% looking at the smaller universe. 09:42.448 --> 09:45.685 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It made me think we're walking right past this. 09:45.685 --> 09:48.120 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% You walk right past this in everyday life, 09:48.120 --> 09:51.223 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% a universe in fact, that is at our feet. 09:51.223 --> 09:52.658 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% - Yes, that's right, 09:52.658 --> 09:56.362 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% every square inch of the ground has a whole world in it 09:56.362 --> 09:59.966 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% of little animals walking around, 09:59.966 --> 10:01.434 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% going about their business, 10:02.602 --> 10:06.205 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% that we pay no attention to. 10:06.205 --> 10:11.243 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And one of the ways of viewing the world 10:12.678 --> 10:16.349 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that I have partly adopted in recent years is Buddhism, 10:17.817 --> 10:21.053 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% which says that we should be present in the moment, 10:21.053 --> 10:23.889 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% pay attention to what's around us. 10:23.889 --> 10:24.991 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% I think it's- - Mindfulness. 10:24.991 --> 10:26.258 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Mindfulness. - As people talk about. 10:26.258 --> 10:28.127 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Mindfulness, yes, and I think that 10:28.127 --> 10:32.031 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that's a very good way of going through life. 10:32.031 --> 10:36.836 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - Now, if your granddaughter asks you about atoms, 10:36.836 --> 10:39.872 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% or if a child of five asks you about, 10:39.872 --> 10:43.743 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% they read the word and they say atoms, where do you begin? 10:43.743 --> 10:45.311 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Not that you can explain it 10:45.311 --> 10:47.813 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that a child can understand it, but where do you start? 10:47.813 --> 10:49.148 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I mean, you've raised two daughters, 10:49.148 --> 10:50.750 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% you've got grandchildren. 10:50.750 --> 10:53.152 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - Well, I would say that I would start 10:53.152 --> 10:57.556 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with what you can see, and then you take a magnifying glass 10:57.556 --> 11:01.394 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and you can see even smaller things, and if you got more 11:01.394 --> 11:04.263 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and more and more powerful magnifying glasses 11:04.263 --> 11:06.565 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and could see even smaller and smaller things, 11:06.565 --> 11:09.068 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% eventually, you would come down to these very, 11:09.068 --> 11:13.773 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% very tiny things which the naked eye can't see, 11:13.773 --> 11:18.110 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% which we call atoms, and the world is made 11:18.110 --> 11:21.313 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% out of these atoms, and there are different kinds of atoms. 11:22.448 --> 11:24.417 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% There are atoms that make up oxygen, 11:24.417 --> 11:26.085 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and there are atoms that make up carbon, 11:26.085 --> 11:28.220 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and all of the different materials in the world, 11:28.220 --> 11:30.389 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% there are different kinds of atoms 11:30.389 --> 11:32.058 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% that make up these things. 11:32.058 --> 11:35.795 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I would try to explain it with what you can see. 11:35.795 --> 11:39.965 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I would start with what we can see, and go down from there, 11:39.965 --> 11:41.701 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and I think that most kids have looked 11:41.701 --> 11:44.804 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% through a magnifying glass, so they have some sense 11:44.804 --> 11:48.607 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% of having technology, in this case, 11:48.607 --> 11:51.644 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a magnifying glass allowing us to do things 11:51.644 --> 11:54.113 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that our human senses can't do. 11:54.113 --> 11:55.681 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% - And most kids are curious. 11:55.681 --> 11:57.216 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% - Most kids are curious. 11:57.216 --> 11:58.984 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - They'll explore on their own if you prompt them. 11:58.984 --> 12:00.219 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Yeah. 12:00.219 --> 12:02.121 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - Let's talk about the quest for meaning, 12:02.121 --> 12:03.956 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% our quest for meaning. 12:05.458 --> 12:07.693 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% You've asked Rebecca Goldstein, 12:07.693 --> 12:10.629 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% who's one of the people that you interviewed in this series, 12:10.629 --> 12:14.834 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% would we not be happier if we weren't constantly beating 12:14.834 --> 12:17.803 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% our breasts searching for meaning? 12:19.772 --> 12:22.308 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Why do we beat our breasts constantly? 12:24.543 --> 12:28.047 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, I think it's part of the human condition 12:29.381 --> 12:30.916 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% to want to understand. 12:30.916 --> 12:35.154 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% It's a byproduct of having a very intelligent brain. 12:36.122 --> 12:38.157 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% I think a lot of our traits are, 12:41.560 --> 12:44.396 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% although they didn't have direct survival benefit, 12:44.396 --> 12:49.401 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% they're byproducts of traits that had survival benefit. 12:50.369 --> 12:53.072 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% Like the ability to write poetry, 12:53.072 --> 12:56.142 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% well, that probably didn't have any direct survival benefit, 12:56.142 --> 12:58.077 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% but the sensitivity to sounds 12:58.077 --> 13:01.147 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and rhythms certainly had survival benefit. 13:01.147 --> 13:05.618 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% And I think that a very advanced brain had 13:06.752 --> 13:09.255 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% direct survival benefit in being to outwit 13:09.255 --> 13:12.057 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% the tiger that's chasing you, 13:12.057 --> 13:16.162 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and do it by your intellect rather than your sharp teeth. 13:16.162 --> 13:17.663 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% But I think a byproduct 13:17.663 --> 13:19.331 align:left position:25% line:89% size:65% of high intelligence 13:20.533 --> 13:23.969 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% is the curiosity, 13:25.771 --> 13:30.176 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% the search for understanding, the search for meaning, 13:30.176 --> 13:33.579 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% so that's how I think that that arose. 13:33.579 --> 13:36.916 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - You talk about and you mentioned these things 13:36.916 --> 13:39.785 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% more than once, you talk about how we are moved 13:39.785 --> 13:42.922 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% by the symphony, we are moved by art, 13:42.922 --> 13:47.026 align:left position:12.5% line:5% size:77.5% or we are moved by the written word, as you said, in poetry. 13:49.061 --> 13:54.033 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Is there a jump between consciousness and art, 13:55.534 --> 13:58.804 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% and that capacity to create art? 13:58.804 --> 14:00.206 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Well, I think consciousness, of course, 14:00.206 --> 14:03.175 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% is the fundamental mental sensation, 14:03.175 --> 14:05.144 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% so everything starts with consciousness, 14:05.144 --> 14:07.313 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% and I think, of course, consciousness 14:07.313 --> 14:08.814 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% is a graded phenomena. 14:08.814 --> 14:12.651 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I think that dolphins and crows and dogs have some level 14:12.651 --> 14:15.721 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% of consciousness, not at our level. 14:17.723 --> 14:19.558 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% So you start with consciousness, 14:19.558 --> 14:22.228 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% the fundamental mental sensation, 14:23.662 --> 14:27.166 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and then I think that the appreciation of beauty, 14:27.166 --> 14:32.137 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the desire to make art, again, that's a byproduct 14:33.606 --> 14:37.243 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% of other traits that had survival benefit. 14:37.243 --> 14:41.914 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% Both Darwin and Freud believed that our appreciation 14:41.914 --> 14:45.484 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% of beauty is a byproduct 14:45.484 --> 14:48.821 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% of the urge for reproduction. 14:51.023 --> 14:54.660 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% You're attracted to a mate that's healthy, 14:54.660 --> 14:56.195 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% that has good coloring, 14:58.497 --> 15:01.734 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% some of the aspects we associate with beauty, 15:01.734 --> 15:05.571 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% and then as a byproduct of that, you have an appreciation 15:05.571 --> 15:09.808 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% for beauty in general, the beauty of a sunset, 15:09.808 --> 15:14.813 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% or the beauty of a snowflake, so I think that's an example, 15:15.681 --> 15:17.182 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% and I think that the desire 15:17.182 --> 15:21.687 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% to create art also is a byproduct of other traits 15:22.855 --> 15:24.390 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% that had direct survival benefit. 15:24.390 --> 15:26.225 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% I mean, we're expressing ourselves 15:26.225 --> 15:28.327 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Yeah. - When we create art. 15:28.327 --> 15:31.931 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It's part of our urge to understand the universe, 15:31.931 --> 15:33.565 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% I think, the creation of art. 15:33.565 --> 15:35.601 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% It's a way of exploration, 15:35.601 --> 15:38.938 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% both inner exploration and outer exploration. 15:40.072 --> 15:43.542 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - In another of your books, "Screening Room", 15:43.542 --> 15:46.445 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% you talk about a group of people who are your friends 15:46.445 --> 15:48.847 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% that you meet with from time to time, 15:48.847 --> 15:52.518 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and that you say you were surprised that, as you said, 15:52.518 --> 15:55.354 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% "What continues to astonish me is the frequency 15:55.354 --> 15:56.855 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% "in which religion slips 15:56.855 --> 15:59.358 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% into the room unbidden and persistent." 15:59.358 --> 16:01.694 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% When we're talking about consciousness, and many people, 16:01.694 --> 16:04.964 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I think, associate consciousness with their faith. 16:04.964 --> 16:09.601 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% Where does faith, if it does, fit into this conversation? 16:10.569 --> 16:14.006 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - Well, first of all, I wanna say that we all have 16:14.006 --> 16:17.676 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% different views of the universe, and ourselves, 16:17.676 --> 16:22.114 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and how we got here, and our purpose, 16:22.114 --> 16:27.119 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and I respect all the different views. 16:28.454 --> 16:31.056 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% I respect all of the different religious traditions. 16:31.056 --> 16:33.625 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We're all trying to understand. 16:33.625 --> 16:35.327 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% We're all searching for meaning. 16:37.830 --> 16:40.699 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I think scientists have faith as well. 16:43.068 --> 16:44.937 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% The faith that scientists have is 16:44.937 --> 16:46.572 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% that the universe is orderly, 16:47.706 --> 16:51.243 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% that it obeys laws, it obeys order, 16:51.243 --> 16:55.748 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and there are laws that we human beings can discover. 16:55.748 --> 17:00.686 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% So I have faith in the orderliness of the universe. 17:03.355 --> 17:07.693 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% So that's my faith, and other people have faith 17:07.693 --> 17:09.328 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% that there's an intelligent, 17:09.328 --> 17:11.630 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% purposeful being that created the universe. 17:11.630 --> 17:13.132 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% I totally respect that. 17:15.267 --> 17:18.437 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I think that the universe came about 17:19.605 --> 17:23.308 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% from the laws of physics, but I know that 17:23.308 --> 17:26.845 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% there are other perspectives on that, which I respect. 17:28.213 --> 17:31.583 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Science will never be able to disprove 17:31.583 --> 17:35.287 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% the existence of God, and religion will never be able 17:35.287 --> 17:38.991 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% to prove the existence of God, so we're all operating 17:38.991 --> 17:41.827 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% on our belief systems and our faith. 17:43.028 --> 17:46.031 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - You write that we are all going about, 17:46.031 --> 17:47.466 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% or we are in the process 17:47.466 --> 17:51.637 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% of modifying our evolution by our own hand. 17:51.637 --> 17:54.173 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And two of the most profound things that I got 17:54.173 --> 17:56.341 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% from this series were a conversation 17:56.341 --> 17:58.744 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% with a fellow who is paralyzed from the neck down, 17:58.744 --> 18:01.447 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% who had the capacity through science, 18:01.447 --> 18:03.048 align:left position:22.5% line:5% size:67.5% through the application of science, 18:03.048 --> 18:07.586 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% to be able to move a robotic arm with his thought. 18:07.586 --> 18:12.591 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And then also the conversation with the robot, 18:14.059 --> 18:17.329 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% which had been created in the image of a man's wife. 18:17.329 --> 18:19.198 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% If you'd talk about those two things, 18:19.198 --> 18:22.267 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and what not just about what they are in particular, 18:22.267 --> 18:27.206 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% but what they are in terms of how we are evolving 18:27.206 --> 18:29.475 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% whether we want to evolve or not. 18:29.475 --> 18:32.478 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Yes, well, as everybody knows, 18:32.478 --> 18:35.814 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% technology has been advancing at an exponential rate. 18:35.814 --> 18:39.551 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You can just look at our smartphones to see that. 18:39.551 --> 18:44.556 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So the man that I talked to who is paralyzed 18:45.724 --> 18:48.560 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% from the neck down, he had electrodes implanted 18:48.560 --> 18:53.432 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% in his brain that allowed him, as you said, 18:53.432 --> 18:56.535 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% to control a robotic arm by pure thought, 18:57.669 --> 19:01.240 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and he's really part human and part machine. 19:01.240 --> 19:03.709 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% And I think that it's possible that in the future 19:03.709 --> 19:07.412 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% we will have computer chips implanted in our brains 19:07.412 --> 19:10.115 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that will connect us directly to the internet. 19:12.117 --> 19:14.820 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I can't imagine what that world will be like, 19:14.820 --> 19:16.955 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but the question is- - But it'll come along 19:16.955 --> 19:19.391 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% in your time. - I think it'll come along. 19:19.391 --> 19:23.228 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% It may, so the question is, when we're part human 19:23.228 --> 19:26.331 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and part machine, which I'll call Homo techno, 19:26.331 --> 19:28.734 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% as an advance from Homo sapiens, 19:28.734 --> 19:32.237 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% what will be preserved of our humanity? 19:32.237 --> 19:35.040 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% Will we still wonder at the night sky, 19:35.040 --> 19:37.576 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% will we still fall in love, and so on? 19:37.576 --> 19:38.944 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% I also had a conversation 19:38.944 --> 19:42.948 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% with a very advanced android named Bino 48, 19:44.283 --> 19:48.620 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and as we know from the recent news 19:48.620 --> 19:52.658 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% about advanced AI that everybody's talking about, 19:52.658 --> 19:55.527 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% that we are building more 19:55.527 --> 20:00.532 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and more advanced artificial intelligence systems, 20:00.532 --> 20:03.569 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% and a big question that I have is 20:03.569 --> 20:05.771 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% will they ever achieve consciousness, 20:07.172 --> 20:08.907 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% whatever this mysterious thing is 20:08.907 --> 20:11.710 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% that we call consciousness, and if they do, 20:11.710 --> 20:14.780 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% will we have any ethical responsibilities to them? 20:14.780 --> 20:18.283 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% For example, if we had a very advanced android 20:18.283 --> 20:20.352 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% that we deemed to be conscious, 20:21.753 --> 20:24.556 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% would we have to ask permission to unplug it? 20:25.891 --> 20:28.393 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% Those are the kinds of questions that we face, 20:28.393 --> 20:30.929 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and our grandchildren are going to face 20:30.929 --> 20:32.764 align:left position:12.5% line:89% size:77.5% in the world that's coming up. 20:32.764 --> 20:34.900 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - We're facing things now, I mean, in terms 20:34.900 --> 20:39.638 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% of what you also do, which is to write, the notion 20:39.638 --> 20:43.609 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% that we can basically program a computer to write, 20:43.609 --> 20:46.378 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% not just write words, but write in a style. 20:46.378 --> 20:48.080 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% So we're looking at, there are lots 20:48.080 --> 20:51.250 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% of ethical questions out there right now, as you know. 20:53.218 --> 20:55.887 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% Let's talk about, if you don't mind, 20:55.887 --> 20:57.456 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% let's talk about Memphis. 20:59.091 --> 21:01.426 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% We were talking before about the movie theaters. 21:01.426 --> 21:03.462 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% You grew up in the movie theaters. 21:03.462 --> 21:04.997 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Yes. 21:04.997 --> 21:06.865 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - I read that you sometimes watched three movies a day. 21:06.865 --> 21:09.601 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% You worked, your first job was in a Malco theater. 21:09.601 --> 21:12.104 align:left position:10% line:5% size:80% - Yes, I did, well, some people, 21:12.104 --> 21:16.208 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% some reviewers have said that my writing is very cinematic 21:16.208 --> 21:19.177 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% with attention to scene setting, and I think that 21:19.177 --> 21:21.880 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that came from watching movie theaters 21:21.880 --> 21:25.183 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% when I was growing up in Memphis, watching movies, 21:25.183 --> 21:28.620 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% I'm sorry, watching movies in movie theaters in Memphis. 21:28.620 --> 21:29.888 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - Yeah, you said that your grandfather, 21:29.888 --> 21:32.090 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% M.A. Lightman, had a screening room, 21:32.090 --> 21:33.592 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% hence the title of the book. 21:33.592 --> 21:37.796 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% You actually met Elvis in the screening room 1960. 21:37.796 --> 21:42.634 align:left position:17.5% line:5% size:72.5% - It was around 1960, yes, he screened his own movies 21:43.802 --> 21:45.337 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% in my grandfather's screening room, 21:45.337 --> 21:47.372 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% 'cause he didn't want to do it in public. 21:48.840 --> 21:52.411 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% And the time that I met him, I was about 12 years old, 21:53.612 --> 21:57.582 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% and this guy walked in with two girls, 21:57.582 --> 22:00.052 align:left position:30% line:5% size:60% two young women, one on each arm, 22:00.052 --> 22:02.954 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% and sat in the couch in the front. 22:02.954 --> 22:07.125 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% And I really didn't know anything about who Elvis was, 22:08.460 --> 22:11.196 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% certainly not his reputation, but at the age of 12, 22:11.196 --> 22:14.433 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% boys are beginning to pay attention to the opposite sex, 22:14.433 --> 22:17.235 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% and I was really impressed that this one guy had 22:17.235 --> 22:18.937 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% two women with him. 22:18.937 --> 22:20.906 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% That's what really impressed me about Elvis. 22:20.906 --> 22:22.207 align:left position:22.5% line:89% size:67.5% - As a 12 year old boy. 22:24.476 --> 22:28.480 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% In the series, in a scene, I guess it's at your desk, 22:28.480 --> 22:31.450 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% there's a photograph, a very famous photograph 22:31.450 --> 22:33.485 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% that most people in Memphis are aware of, 22:33.485 --> 22:35.087 align:left position:20% line:5% size:70% taken by Ernest Withers. 22:35.087 --> 22:38.490 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% It's what's commonly known as the "I Am a Man" picture, 22:38.490 --> 22:42.294 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% taken during the sanitation worker strike in 1968. 22:42.294 --> 22:45.030 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% You had just left Memphis to go back to school, 22:45.030 --> 22:48.467 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I guess, at the time Dr. King was assassinated, 22:48.467 --> 22:52.704 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and that was a difficult time for you to be from Memphis. 22:52.704 --> 22:54.005 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% Talk about that, would you? 22:55.941 --> 22:57.476 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% - Well, it was a difficult time, 22:57.476 --> 23:02.247 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% because the media around the country were trashing Memphis, 23:03.648 --> 23:06.418 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% you know, as being, you know, an ignorant southern town 23:06.418 --> 23:09.020 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% where an assassination like that could occur, 23:10.288 --> 23:12.958 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and so it was embarrassing for a while. 23:14.493 --> 23:17.396 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% And then I got over that, 23:17.396 --> 23:19.664 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% and I started coming back to Memphis again. 23:20.532 --> 23:21.967 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% But the reason why I keep 23:21.967 --> 23:26.938 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that famous Ernest Withers photograph by my desk is because 23:28.340 --> 23:31.610 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in thinking about what we human beings will be in the future 23:31.610 --> 23:33.979 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% when we're part human and part machine, 23:35.447 --> 23:39.985 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% I want us to preserve some important human qualities 23:39.985 --> 23:43.455 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that we have now, and one of those is dignity. 23:44.656 --> 23:48.160 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% And that poster, the "I Am a Man" poster, 23:48.160 --> 23:52.030 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% where all of these men are holding a poster, 23:52.030 --> 23:54.166 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% the sanitation workers, that just says 23:54.166 --> 23:57.035 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% those four words, "I am a man", 23:59.070 --> 24:02.641 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% to me that expresses dignity more than their dignity. 24:02.641 --> 24:06.278 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% They all look dignified after this, you know, 24:06.278 --> 24:08.747 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% these terrible things have been done to them, 24:08.747 --> 24:12.751 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% this discrimination, they maintain their dignity, 24:12.751 --> 24:16.221 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% and I keep that poster as a reminder 24:16.221 --> 24:18.590 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% that dignity is something we want to keep. 24:19.891 --> 24:21.526 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% - I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you 24:21.526 --> 24:23.161 align:left position:17.5% line:89% size:72.5% about "Einstein's Dreams". 24:23.161 --> 24:26.231 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% It's 31 years since you published it, 24:26.231 --> 24:28.967 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% bestseller in 30 languages, I believe, 24:28.967 --> 24:31.536 align:left position:27.5% line:5% size:62.5% required reading in a lot of colleges. 24:31.536 --> 24:36.107 align:left position:15% line:5% size:75% It's been a stage production, it was a musical in 2019. 24:36.107 --> 24:38.543 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% What do you think about it now? 24:38.543 --> 24:41.680 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% What do you think about what you did now? 24:41.680 --> 24:45.684 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - Well, first of all, I and the publishing house were 24:45.684 --> 24:48.286 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% surprised at the success of the book. 24:48.286 --> 24:52.691 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% What I find now is that a lot of people know the book 24:52.691 --> 24:54.426 align:left position:27.5% line:89% size:62.5% and don't know me, 24:56.061 --> 24:59.431 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% so the book has achieved a recognition 24:59.431 --> 25:02.534 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% that's beyond my personal recognition. 25:02.534 --> 25:05.637 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And at first, I was a little disturbed by that, 25:05.637 --> 25:09.407 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% and now I've come to realize that's a good thing, 25:09.407 --> 25:14.412 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% that the things that we create are more important than us, 25:15.380 --> 25:17.816 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% and of course, some of the things we create 25:17.816 --> 25:20.785 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% are our children and the children that they create, 25:20.785 --> 25:21.786 align:left position:37.5% line:89% size:52.5% and so on. 25:22.888 --> 25:24.956 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% So I'm okay with the fact that some of the things 25:24.956 --> 25:28.026 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% that I create are more memorable than me. 25:29.427 --> 25:33.131 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% - You were talking once about, or you had written rather, 25:33.131 --> 25:36.768 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that you don't believe in miracles or in the supernatural, 25:36.768 --> 25:40.772 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% but that you do believe in the miraculous. 25:40.772 --> 25:42.407 align:left position:42.5% line:89% size:47.5% - Yes. 25:42.407 --> 25:45.911 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - What's miraculous to you in the world? 25:45.911 --> 25:48.113 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% - The experience that I had lying in the boat, 25:48.113 --> 25:50.682 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% looking up at the stars and feeling connected, 25:50.682 --> 25:53.084 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% the feeling of falling in love, 25:53.084 --> 25:56.288 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% the feeling of watching my children born, 25:57.589 --> 26:00.859 align:left position:30% line:83% size:60% to me, those are all transcendent, 26:00.859 --> 26:04.429 align:left position:12.5% line:83% size:77.5% miraculous experiences, and I think that we've all had them. 26:05.864 --> 26:07.599 align:left position:15% line:83% size:75% - Thank you, Alan Lightman, for being here with us today. 26:07.599 --> 26:09.100 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% We've really enjoyed it. 26:09.100 --> 26:12.237 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% - Thank you, George, and it's great to be on WKNO. 26:12.237 --> 26:14.739 align:left position:25% line:83% size:65% - And thank you for watching us on WKNO. 26:14.739 --> 26:17.242 align:left position:22.5% line:83% size:67.5% We'll see you next time on A Conversation With. 26:17.242 --> 26:23.381 align:left position:32.5% line:89% size:57.5% [gentle music] 26:43.802 --> 26:45.804 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% [acoustic guitar chords]