WEBVTT 00:00.601 --> 00:02.669 [upbeat music] 00:17.985 --> 00:20.120 - Memphis theatergoers know Jerre Dye 00:20.120 --> 00:23.090  as an award-winning stage   actor and for his work 00:23.090 --> 00:25.959  with the narrative theater   company Voices of the South. 00:25.959 --> 00:28.161  He's also an   acclaimed playwright, 00:28.161 --> 00:30.864  premiering the coming-of-age   ghost story Cicada 00:30.864 --> 00:33.567  and the Southern drama   Distance in both Memphis 00:33.567 --> 00:36.003  and his current   hometown, Chicago. 00:36.003 --> 00:39.072 Now his career has taken off on a new trajectory. 00:39.072 --> 00:41.541 Jerre Dye is one of the most sought-after 00:41.541 --> 00:44.511 opera librettists in the country. 00:44.511 --> 00:45.779 At the time of this interview, 00:45.779 --> 00:48.181  he's back in Memphis   for the local premier 00:48.181 --> 00:49.983  for The Falling and the Rising, 00:49.983 --> 00:52.352  a powerfully   emotional opera based 00:52.352 --> 00:55.622  on the true stories of   active duty soldiers. 00:55.622 --> 00:56.890 Hi, Jerre Dye. [laughs] 00:56.890 --> 00:58.692 - Hey, Kacky Walton, how're you doing? 00:58.692 --> 01:01.962 - I'm well, you know, have you seen the movie 01:01.962 --> 01:03.096 The World According to Garp? 01:03.096 --> 01:03.931 Have you read the book? - Oh, yeah! 01:03.931 --> 01:05.032 Are you kidding me, yes. 01:05.032 --> 01:06.300 - So there's something in the book 01:06.300 --> 01:08.068 that I always think about and it's always 01:08.068 --> 01:10.804 stayed with me about the arc of your life 01:10.804 --> 01:13.807 and looking back and thinking about the people 01:13.807 --> 01:15.976 you've met and the experiences you've had 01:15.976 --> 01:17.511 that are almost like building blocks 01:17.511 --> 01:19.413 that sort of shape who you have become. 01:19.413 --> 01:21.415 - Yeah, sure. - And boy, 01:21.415 --> 01:24.117 looking back on it, you think, what if I hadn't 01:24.117 --> 01:25.319 met that person or what if I hadn't-- 01:25.319 --> 01:26.920 - Oh, absolutely, yeah, kismet. 01:26.920 --> 01:28.722 - Yeah, how different would my life be? 01:28.722 --> 01:32.159 - Yeah, yeah, I have no idea how I got here. [laughs] 01:32.159 --> 01:34.494 And also, you know, being an artist 01:34.494 --> 01:35.862 and wanting to be a working artist, 01:35.862 --> 01:37.597 I learned pretty early on that you, 01:37.597 --> 01:41.702 you know, diversifying your skill sets is key. 01:41.702 --> 01:44.471 - Yeah! - And so I've ended up 01:44.471 --> 01:46.773 doing so many different kinds of things in my life, 01:46.773 --> 01:50.177 and it feels like all of that has prepared me for this. 01:50.177 --> 01:51.678 - Yeah, exactly. - That sense of curiosity 01:51.678 --> 01:54.514 about the work is the only, 01:54.514 --> 01:56.984 it's the most sustaining thing, I think. 01:56.984 --> 01:58.852 - Well, six years ago, would you imagine-- 01:58.852 --> 02:00.954 - No, no! [Kacky laughing] 02:00.954 --> 02:02.589 Absolutely not, without a doubt. 02:02.589 --> 02:05.058 - We're gonna talk more about your work 02:05.058 --> 02:06.626 in the opera field in a little bit, 02:06.626 --> 02:08.562 but I wanted to sort of go back a little bit. 02:08.562 --> 02:10.564 Who inspired you to become an actor? 02:12.199 --> 02:17.037 - So my eldest brother is no longer with us, John Dye, 02:18.372 --> 02:21.108 eight years older than me, he was an actor 02:21.108 --> 02:22.709 on many television shows. 02:22.709 --> 02:25.912 He was the guy, he ended up being the go-to guy 02:25.912 --> 02:28.482 for television pilots. 02:28.482 --> 02:30.517 - Ah! - So he was an amazing 02:30.517 --> 02:33.553 quick study, so all the way through his career, 02:33.553 --> 02:36.056 when they would fire someone [laughs], 02:36.056 --> 02:38.191 really often, when they would fire someone 02:38.191 --> 02:39.626 or they were gonna replace someone, 02:39.626 --> 02:41.862 they would tap him, and he would go in 02:41.862 --> 02:43.463 and he would do pilots, and he would do, 02:43.463 --> 02:45.966 he did pilot after pilot after pilot, 02:45.966 --> 02:48.001 and working in some amazing situations, 02:48.001 --> 02:52.973 like a dream life, but they never made it to air often. 02:54.174 --> 02:55.709 But you know, he made a life for himself, 02:55.709 --> 02:58.512 it was great, until finally he was on Touched by an Angel, 02:58.512 --> 03:01.348 and he did that for I think nine seasons 03:01.348 --> 03:03.016 he was on that show. - Yeah. 03:03.016 --> 03:04.851 - Yeah, and so when you have an older brother 03:04.851 --> 03:06.987 that's in the business and yeah, 03:06.987 --> 03:10.390 I was a little kid watching him direct Grease 03:10.390 --> 03:13.493 at Tupelo Community Theatre, and yeah, 03:13.493 --> 03:14.961 it was a huge inspiration to me. 03:14.961 --> 03:16.363 - It just rubbed of on you. - Yeah, I was-- 03:16.363 --> 03:17.798 - I gotta do that. - Always interested in how 03:17.798 --> 03:21.668 the parts came together, right, how the art gets made. 03:21.668 --> 03:23.036 - Yeah. - How the soup gets made. 03:23.036 --> 03:24.237 I was always, that was always 03:24.237 --> 03:26.239 interesting to me, even as a kid. 03:27.441 --> 03:30.477 - Well, I wanna talk about the transition 03:30.477 --> 03:32.813 from being an actor to becoming a playwright. 03:34.514 --> 03:36.216 Did you always write, or was that something 03:36.216 --> 03:40.120 that was nurtured with your work with Voices of the South? 03:40.120 --> 03:43.990 - Yes, and, I always did, yeah, I was always a writer 03:43.990 --> 03:45.792 even when I was a little kid, you know, poetry. 03:45.792 --> 03:47.127 - Oh, really? - We do those kinds 03:47.127 --> 03:48.628 of things, yeah, yeah, sure. [both laughing] 03:48.628 --> 03:50.197 I remember taking a little poetry class 03:50.197 --> 03:55.202 when I was probably, gosh, I was probably like eight, 03:56.603 --> 03:59.172 and I wrote a poem and remember the sense of satisfaction 03:59.172 --> 04:01.408 was not, it was unlike anything I had ever 04:01.408 --> 04:02.876 experienced in my life, yeah. 04:02.876 --> 04:04.144 - So-- - Yeah, so yeah, 04:04.144 --> 04:07.814 and my mother was a writer, so she had a, 04:07.814 --> 04:08.882 she was a journalist. 04:08.882 --> 04:10.417 - Really? - Yeah. 04:10.417 --> 04:13.019 And then she had kids, and she kind of put 04:13.019 --> 04:17.090 her career on hold, and I think, I believe, 04:17.090 --> 04:19.526 I have to believe that a lot of it came from her as well, 04:19.526 --> 04:22.662 the feeling of wanting to be alone with the pen. 04:24.564 --> 04:28.101 - So I wanna know about, let's talk more 04:28.101 --> 04:29.336 about Voices of the South. 04:29.336 --> 04:30.137 - Yeah. - These are relationships 04:30.137 --> 04:31.371 you forged in college. 04:31.371 --> 04:33.006 - Yeah. - That you maintain today. 04:33.006 --> 04:34.908 - Yeah, absolutely, they're my family. 04:34.908 --> 04:37.811 - Yep, and Gloria Baxter was a huge part of that. 04:37.811 --> 04:38.812 Tell everybody about Gloria Baxter. 04:38.812 --> 04:41.748 - Everything, so I went to school 04:41.748 --> 04:45.285 at the University of Memphis, Memphis State [laughs] 04:45.285 --> 04:47.387 at the time, and at that time specifically, 04:47.387 --> 04:51.625 I think that program was, you, 04:51.625 --> 04:55.996 it was very unique for programs across the United States 04:55.996 --> 04:58.198 in that we were exposed to lots of things 04:58.198 --> 05:00.967 including some pretty, with Gloria, 05:00.967 --> 05:03.670 some very rigorous literature classes 05:03.670 --> 05:06.940 and also exposed to directing 05:08.241 --> 05:10.577 and through Susan Chrietzberg exposed to dance 05:10.577 --> 05:13.613 and Ann Halligan exposed to modern dance, 05:13.613 --> 05:15.749 and so we were getting all of these tools 05:15.749 --> 05:18.285 in a way that I think in normal BFA programs 05:18.285 --> 05:20.921 people really don't get, and my, 05:20.921 --> 05:24.858 and Josie Helming teaching Chekhov. 05:24.858 --> 05:27.894 That experience for me was, yeah, 05:27.894 --> 05:30.597 it was like every part of my body was waking up. 05:30.597 --> 05:33.767 And Gloria was right at the helm of that, 05:33.767 --> 05:38.772 and she came up at Northwestern back in the day 05:40.307 --> 05:42.509 in the '60s when they did something called chamber 05:42.509 --> 05:46.846 theater, which was at the time, it was a very '60s idea 05:46.846 --> 05:48.148 that everyone could get in the room, 05:48.148 --> 05:49.616 and we could take any piece of literature 05:49.616 --> 05:53.320 and verbatim perform it and start integrating 05:53.320 --> 05:56.389 it with kind of sonic ideas and dance ideas 05:56.389 --> 05:59.659 and movement ideas to kind of make not just a play 05:59.659 --> 06:01.695 but make literature kind of come to life. 06:01.695 --> 06:03.063 So she was at the school at the same time 06:03.063 --> 06:06.733 as Frank Galati who people know who did this 06:06.733 --> 06:09.836 kind of famous adaptation of Grapes of Wrath. 06:09.836 --> 06:11.438 - Oh, yeah. - Which I just recently a few 06:11.438 --> 06:14.274 years ago did, was involved in production in Chicago 06:14.274 --> 06:15.508 which was kind of great. - I remember reading 06:15.508 --> 06:16.443 about that. - Yeah, it was great, 06:16.443 --> 06:17.677 it was a great experience. 06:17.677 --> 06:19.779 But so Gloria went to school with Frank 06:19.779 --> 06:23.383 and all those folks, and she took that sensibility, 06:23.383 --> 06:25.852 and when she came to University of Memphis 06:27.020 --> 06:31.725 in the '60s, late '60s, she kind of evolved it 06:33.126 --> 06:35.962 in her own way, and so with all of us specifically, 06:35.962 --> 06:38.331 I think, in that little window of time, 06:38.331 --> 06:40.834 it was like a laboratory for making art, 06:40.834 --> 06:45.839 and we were learning how adaptation works. 06:47.007 --> 06:48.808 And yeah, and I was 19 years old, 06:48.808 --> 06:51.311 and we did a piece, an adaptation 06:51.311 --> 06:54.915 of As I Lay Dying and took it to Paris. 06:54.915 --> 06:56.149 - Oh! - Yeah, 06:56.149 --> 06:59.286 and so I'm 19 years old, I'm in Paris, 06:59.286 --> 07:02.422 and I'm performing Vardaman with my fish, 07:02.422 --> 07:07.427 "My mother is a fish," on a stage at the Sorbonne. 07:08.595 --> 07:10.063 And it was like, I thought, okay, this, 07:10.063 --> 07:11.298 the rest of my life is gonna feel just like this. 07:11.298 --> 07:12.766 [both laughing] Not quite. 07:12.766 --> 07:17.203 But yeah, so yeah, she was, Gloria was instrumental 07:17.203 --> 07:18.672 in not just giving us the skill sets 07:18.672 --> 07:21.274 to be able to do adaption and understand how 07:21.274 --> 07:24.477 playwriting really works but also exposing us 07:24.477 --> 07:27.914  to the world, like how   big the world really was. 07:27.914 --> 07:29.349  - Yeah.   - And Voices of the South 07:29.349 --> 07:30.784  was formed really out of that. 07:30.784 --> 07:32.052  - Right.   - That core group of people 07:32.052 --> 07:33.887  came together, we   started a company. 07:33.887 --> 07:37.891  Jenny Madden and Alice   Berry specifically started 07:37.891 --> 07:39.859  a two-person company,   and they went 07:39.859 --> 07:41.861  to the Edinburgh   Fringe Festival, 07:41.861 --> 07:43.730  and kind of the rest is history. 07:43.730 --> 07:45.298  - And you were the artistic   director for many years. 07:45.298 --> 07:46.433  - Yeah, and then   eventually what, 07:46.433 --> 07:49.169  even like in the   first two years, 07:49.169 --> 07:50.904  I was living out of town,   I was living I think 07:50.904 --> 07:52.105  in San Francisco at the time. 07:52.105 --> 07:53.373  - Yeah!   - And I would come back in, 07:53.373 --> 07:54.808  and I would direct   shows and whatnot, 07:54.808 --> 07:59.112  and it was like a joy,   it was like a, yeah, 07:59.112 --> 08:00.547  something effortless   about being in the room 08:00.547 --> 08:03.116  with all of those folks.   - Yeah. 08:03.116 --> 08:04.651  - Yeah, I would come   back and direct, 08:04.651 --> 08:08.188  and eventually a few years,   well, several years passed, 08:08.188 --> 08:11.725 I was probably, I was in San Francisco for five years 08:11.725 --> 08:14.427 and L.A. for about five years, so about 10 years 08:15.628 --> 08:17.831 almost after the forming of the company, 08:17.831 --> 08:22.335 I came back and decided to be the artistic director, 08:22.335 --> 08:26.873 which I did for almost nine, and it was a joy. 08:26.873 --> 08:31.144 And my skill sets and my horizons broadened extensively. 08:31.144 --> 08:33.113 You know, you learn how to change a light bulb 08:33.113 --> 08:36.282 and write a grant and hire people, and you know, 08:36.282 --> 08:39.085 and build, just build an idea. 08:40.086 --> 08:42.589 It was my second college. 08:42.589 --> 08:43.823 - Wow. - You know, and it was 08:43.823 --> 08:46.626 my MFA, really is what it was in a lot of ways. 08:46.626 --> 08:51.131 - So what inspired you to write your first play, Cicada? 08:52.599 --> 08:55.468 - A small writing group, a bunch of us 08:55.468 --> 08:58.571 gathered together weekly, and we just sat, 08:58.571 --> 09:00.940 and it was pieces and parts and pieces and parts, 09:00.940 --> 09:02.842 and eventually those pieces and parts ended up 09:02.842 --> 09:06.246 in a drawer, I shelved it for a while, 09:06.246 --> 09:09.015 and then when I picked it back up and revisited it, 09:10.717 --> 09:12.051 yeah, I mean, I think that writing group 09:12.051 --> 09:14.154 really was the birth of if in a lot of ways, 09:14.154 --> 09:15.989 and also necessity, right, which I love. 09:15.989 --> 09:17.624 That's my favorite thing about theater. 09:17.624 --> 09:19.793 I think we, do we need, we need to do a show. 09:19.793 --> 09:21.227 Jerre, do you wanna do that show? 09:21.227 --> 09:23.563 Sure, I'll do that, you know, like you just yes, and, 09:23.563 --> 09:24.597 it's like improve, right? 09:24.597 --> 09:26.065 - Right. - Like the first rule 09:26.065 --> 09:27.734 of improve is yes, and to just about everything, 09:27.734 --> 09:29.269 and it was definitely a yes, and moment. 09:29.269 --> 09:31.971 And then suddenly I was like, oh, I have a show opening. 09:31.971 --> 09:34.074 [Kacky laughing] 09:34.074 --> 09:36.910 And it turned out to be, or certainly like locally 09:36.910 --> 09:41.815 it turned out to be a huge, kind of an odd success. 09:43.216 --> 09:46.352 I see representations of like Southern plays sometimes, 09:48.388 --> 09:51.024 and you know, it can get a little, 09:51.024 --> 09:52.492 they're a little thin, you know? 09:52.492 --> 09:54.294 - Yeah. - Or it's just a little 09:56.463 --> 09:58.531 flimsy, a little cheap sometimes when the people try 09:58.531 --> 10:00.800 to kind of capture the feeling, the mood, 10:00.800 --> 10:02.068 the tone of the South. 10:02.068 --> 10:04.137 And I think what the piece did certainly 10:04.137 --> 10:06.372 when it was performed here in Memphis specifically, 10:06.372 --> 10:08.808 people went, oh, that's our, that's us, right? 10:08.808 --> 10:10.243 - Yeah. - That's our family, 10:10.243 --> 10:13.446 that's who we are that I recognize, I recognize myself, 10:13.446 --> 10:16.683 which was like one of the more gratifying 10:16.683 --> 10:20.653 moments of my life, and then we remounted it a second time. 10:20.653 --> 10:23.523 So again, I got to kind of clean it up 10:23.523 --> 10:27.093 and get it in good order. 10:27.093 --> 10:28.361 - It won an award. 10:28.361 --> 10:31.431 - It did, it did, the most amazing Richard, 10:31.431 --> 10:33.533 the writer Richard Bausch-- 10:33.533 --> 10:36.436 - Yep. - Who was previously 10:36.436 --> 10:39.105 I think the Moss chair at the University of Memphis, 10:39.105 --> 10:43.109 he truly stumbled into the show one night, 10:43.109 --> 10:44.377 and he came up to me afterwards, 10:44.377 --> 10:48.348 and he was like, um, I need to talk to you. 10:48.348 --> 10:52.485 It was, what a, again, angels on the planet. 10:52.485 --> 10:54.020 - Yeah. - It was definitely, 10:54.020 --> 10:56.055 not unlike Gloria, it was one of those people that went... 10:57.657 --> 11:02.061 Being an artist is hard [laughs] in many, many ways. 11:02.061 --> 11:06.366 And you crave that moment when someone really sees you, 11:06.366 --> 11:08.401 you know, like really sees who you are and what you do, 11:08.401 --> 11:10.870 and he came up to me afterwards and he said, 11:10.870 --> 11:15.108 "Hey, I think I wanna recommend you for this award." 11:15.108 --> 11:17.544 And I really did, I thought, oh, okay, how nice, 11:17.544 --> 11:21.481 that's lovely, and I didn't now what it was or anything. 11:21.481 --> 11:23.483 And he said, "Can you send me a copy of the play, 11:23.483 --> 11:25.518 "and I'm gonna vet it and then I have to send it 11:25.518 --> 11:27.186 "to the committee to vet as well. 11:28.555 --> 11:32.659 We're gonna send it to Beth." 11:32.659 --> 11:34.127 - Beth. - And yeah, and I was like, 11:34.127 --> 11:35.495 okay, great, well I'll send it-- 11:35.495 --> 11:36.963 - Beth who? [laughs] 11:36.963 --> 11:39.666 - And they sent me an email address, and it was Beth Henley. 11:39.666 --> 11:41.167 - Crimes of the Heart Beth Henley. [laughs] 11:41.167 --> 11:44.137 - Right, and so I was like, oh, oh god. [laughs] 11:44.137 --> 11:46.739 So I sent it, and you know, and she, 11:46.739 --> 11:49.943 we were in contact, and yeah, and then so I won 11:49.943 --> 11:51.678 the award for Southern literature 11:51.678 --> 11:53.913 from the Fellowship of Southern Writers. 11:53.913 --> 11:55.148 - Wow. - Yeah. 11:55.148 --> 11:57.450 - She had nice things to say about you. 11:57.450 --> 11:58.818 - She said lovely things. 11:58.818 --> 12:00.954 - So now you're a sought-after opera librettist. 12:00.954 --> 12:02.155 - I'm sought after! [laughs] 12:02.155 --> 12:03.823 - You're sought after, everybody says it. 12:03.823 --> 12:05.058 - Only on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 12:05.058 --> 12:06.292 - And you know, you've even said, 12:06.292 --> 12:07.727 I read a quote from you or heard you say this 12:07.727 --> 12:12.098 that we are actually in a golden age of opera in America. 12:12.098 --> 12:14.000 - It's true, and if it's not true, 12:14.000 --> 12:17.070 I'm gonna keep saying it 'cause I want it to be true. 12:17.070 --> 12:20.773 Yeah, there are more operas, there are more new operas 12:20.773 --> 12:23.009 being produced in the United States than ever before, 12:23.009 --> 12:24.711 and really, it's been in the past 10 years, 12:24.711 --> 12:25.979 I think it's fair to say. 12:27.413 --> 12:30.883 Companies who previously had never even considered 12:30.883 --> 12:34.320 a new opera, they were gonna do the Cannon, 12:34.320 --> 12:35.521 and they were gonna sell those tickets 12:35.521 --> 12:38.291 and get those folks into the house, 12:38.291 --> 12:41.995 were not even remotely interested in doing new work. 12:41.995 --> 12:45.231 It's just, it's never been a part of the culture, really. 12:45.231 --> 12:46.933 - Yeah. - And that's changed 12:46.933 --> 12:49.402 drastically, and Ned Canty at Opera Memphis 12:49.402 --> 12:51.571 has really been right at the forefront 12:51.571 --> 12:54.907 of the people that are shifting that and making that happen. 12:54.907 --> 12:57.110 So yeah, so I'm working on many commissions right now 12:57.110 --> 12:59.178 with different opera companies around the United States. 12:59.178 --> 13:02.715 - So let's see, I think you have worked on one 13:02.715 --> 13:05.518 about serpent-handling preachers. 13:05.518 --> 13:06.986 - Yes, I have, indeed. 13:06.986 --> 13:10.990 - You've done an opera that's a virtual reality opera? 13:10.990 --> 13:12.258 - I have, indeed, yes. 13:12.258 --> 13:13.760 - What in the world is that? [laughs] 13:13.760 --> 13:17.830 - Yeah, so the composer that I've been working with on, 13:17.830 --> 13:19.666 so I did a piece of Washington National Opera, 13:19.666 --> 13:21.067 it's called Taking Up Serpents, 13:21.067 --> 13:24.737 which was about snake-handling in the American South 13:25.838 --> 13:28.708 with a composer named Kamala Sankaram. 13:28.708 --> 13:31.511 She is based out of New York. 13:31.511 --> 13:34.514 She is also just like something else. 13:34.514 --> 13:38.584 She's the coolest person ever, that's what I tell her. 13:39.719 --> 13:42.288 She and a group also out of New York 13:42.288 --> 13:45.758 called Opera on Tap, and they tend to take opera 13:45.758 --> 13:47.493 to places where opera typically isn't, 13:47.493 --> 13:51.631 so they perform in halls, they perform in playgrounds, 13:51.631 --> 13:56.669 they perform in, everywhere you can imagine opera happens. 13:56.669 --> 13:59.706 And they were interested in integrating technology 13:59.706 --> 14:00.940 with opera in a thoughtful way. 14:00.940 --> 14:02.942 - Yeah. - And both Kamala and myself 14:02.942 --> 14:05.411 are huge horror fans. 14:05.411 --> 14:06.913 [both laughing] 14:06.913 --> 14:08.214 And we thought, you know what there's not a lot of 14:08.214 --> 14:12.452 is the horror opera, so we did a horror opera 14:12.452 --> 14:17.457 that is filmed in 360, which is kind of a bit 14:18.591 --> 14:20.126 of the Wild West when it comes to VR 14:20.126 --> 14:23.496 and how it behaves and what the editing might look like. 14:23.496 --> 14:26.032 And what's so great is that so much of with the camera 14:26.032 --> 14:29.869 locked down in a 360 scenario and you're looking 14:29.869 --> 14:33.406 all around to experience with your VR glasses, 14:34.807 --> 14:38.945 the primary, the way to build narrative the easiest, 14:38.945 --> 14:41.314 the way to build narrative is sonically. 14:41.314 --> 14:42.815 'Cause if I'm looking this way 14:42.815 --> 14:44.650 and the sound happens behind me, 14:44.650 --> 14:47.620 so sound cues story, and we thought, 14:47.620 --> 14:51.023 opera is just like what an amazing way to, 14:51.023 --> 14:52.725 let's figure out of we can do it. 14:52.725 --> 14:54.193 - Oh! - So we did, we've done 14:54.193 --> 14:56.763 episode one, and now we're currently in development 14:56.763 --> 14:58.397 for like four or five new episodes. 14:58.397 --> 14:59.665 - Oh! - Each one about, 14:59.665 --> 15:02.402 you know, 10 to 12 minutes, and yeah, 15:02.402 --> 15:05.138 it's called Parksville. 15:05.138 --> 15:06.706 - Parksville? 15:06.706 --> 15:08.074 - Parksville Horror. - Horror. 15:08.074 --> 15:09.876 - Yeah, yeah. - Oh, gosh. 15:09.876 --> 15:11.344 - Yeah, it's great, it's exciting. 15:11.344 --> 15:13.679 - I never thought I would hear a virtual reality opera. 15:13.679 --> 15:14.947 It's crazy. - I know! 15:14.947 --> 15:16.215 - Well, the reason that you got involved in this 15:16.215 --> 15:19.252 to begin with was when Ned Canty had the idea 15:19.252 --> 15:22.588 for the opera in Crosstown, in Sears Crosstown Building. 15:22.588 --> 15:23.990 - Correct. 15:23.990 --> 15:27.660 - And so you ended you writing five separate pieces, 15:27.660 --> 15:29.195 is that right? - Yeah. 15:29.195 --> 15:31.664 - And you kinda said this was sorta like grad school to you? 15:31.664 --> 15:36.102 - It was totally grad school, absolutely, yeah, the-- 15:36.102 --> 15:37.570 - You had never done this before. 15:37.570 --> 15:41.607 - Never, ever, I think, I believe Ned either saw a play 15:41.607 --> 15:44.677 that I had written or heard, I don't even know, at the time, 15:44.677 --> 15:45.945 I don't even know if he saw it, 15:45.945 --> 15:47.180 but he was like, "You write plays, correct?" 15:47.180 --> 15:48.447 And I was like, yeah, and he said, 15:48.447 --> 15:49.382 "Have you ever thought about writing opera?" 15:49.382 --> 15:50.183 I said, absolutely not, but yes. 15:50.183 --> 15:51.651 [Kacky laughing] 15:51.651 --> 15:55.188 And he said, "So I've got this idea of 10- and 12-minute 15:55.188 --> 15:57.824 pieces or kind of easy to manage in some way." 15:57.824 --> 16:00.827 So he said, "Let's do 10- to 12-minute pieces 16:01.727 --> 16:04.864 with five different composers." 16:04.864 --> 16:08.334 So it was this crash course, and I got to work 16:08.334 --> 16:10.436 with five composers at one time, 16:10.436 --> 16:12.538 and just to figure out what that experience was like 16:12.538 --> 16:14.173 or like how that dance happens, 16:14.173 --> 16:16.876 and obviously it was like so vastly different 16:16.876 --> 16:18.377 with every one of those people. 16:18.377 --> 16:20.646 - Yeah, you said they're like snowflakes. [laughs] 16:20.646 --> 16:22.081 - They are like snowflakes! 16:22.081 --> 16:24.350 Because you know, the composer mind, 16:24.350 --> 16:27.286 which is really different from my own, 16:27.286 --> 16:31.290 it's a mathematic mind, you know? 16:31.290 --> 16:34.594 They think, they literally think differently than I would. 16:34.594 --> 16:37.864 So I was adjusting around that and understanding how, 16:37.864 --> 16:40.032 I feel like as a librettist, so much of my job 16:40.032 --> 16:45.037 really is to, I'm inspired, right? 16:46.439 --> 16:48.441 Like, I have to write something that makes them 16:48.441 --> 16:50.243 want to write music. - Right. 16:50.243 --> 16:51.510 - You know? - Yeah! 16:51.510 --> 16:53.079 - As opposed to you give something to a director, 16:53.079 --> 16:54.447 and a directors directs the thing that's on the page, right? 16:54.447 --> 16:55.648 - Right. - They're faithful 16:55.648 --> 16:57.750 to the thing and the structure. 16:57.750 --> 17:01.754 But it's much more malleable and can change, 17:01.754 --> 17:05.558 you know, with a composer, so that's been, 17:05.558 --> 17:07.326 that's been a really fascinating experience. 17:07.326 --> 17:10.763 I keep on, I find myself staying in a place of curiosity. 17:10.763 --> 17:14.500 I'm learning with each subsequent production. 17:14.500 --> 17:16.769 - Well, one of the composers who worked on the 17:16.769 --> 17:18.337 Ghosts of Crosstown-- - Yes! 17:18.337 --> 17:21.073 - Series, you are collaborating with again 17:21.073 --> 17:22.174 for The Falling and The Rising. 17:22.174 --> 17:23.409 - Correct. - Which I mentioned 17:23.409 --> 17:26.145 earlier in our chat, so let's talk about that. 17:26.145 --> 17:27.680 - Yeah! - I thought it was great 17:27.680 --> 17:31.784 that it was the first ever commission from the U.S. Army-- 17:31.784 --> 17:33.185 - Yep. - Field Bank, I think? 17:33.185 --> 17:34.587 Is that right? - Yep. 17:34.587 --> 17:39.091 - So when you were presented with this idea, 17:39.091 --> 17:43.129 how did you go about deciding how to tell the story? 17:43.129 --> 17:48.134 - Yeah, interesting, so Staff Sergeant Ben Hilgert 17:49.268 --> 17:52.571 with the U.S. Army Field Band and Chorus 17:52.571 --> 17:56.642 is an opera singer, as many of those folks 17:56.642 --> 17:59.946 that are in the chorus are, like people with, 17:59.946 --> 18:01.647 I would say there's a lotta paper in that room. 18:01.647 --> 18:03.449 [Kacky laughs] A lot of amazing 18:04.850 --> 18:07.520 education in that room and also professional experience, 18:07.520 --> 18:09.956 among them opera singers, and he was like, 18:09.956 --> 18:14.126 "You know, we do lots of different kinds of shows, 18:14.126 --> 18:16.562 but one thing we don't do a lot of is opera." 18:16.562 --> 18:19.765 And he said, "I'm craving it, and so I've been given 18:19.765 --> 18:23.169 "the thumbs-up by higher-ups to go kind of investigate 18:23.169 --> 18:24.570 what that might look like." 18:24.570 --> 18:26.672 So he went to an Opera America conference, 18:26.672 --> 18:29.175 saw one of the pieces from Ghosts of Crosstown-- 18:29.175 --> 18:30.710 - Oh! - That was submitted 18:30.710 --> 18:32.778 to the Opera America conference and performed. 18:32.778 --> 18:35.881 It was an extraordinary performance, 18:38.084 --> 18:39.819 it really, it was weird. 18:39.819 --> 18:42.088 It sparkled in a very significant way. 18:42.088 --> 18:43.322 I will never forget it. 18:43.322 --> 18:45.391 And he was in the audience that night, 18:45.391 --> 18:47.493 and he went to a friend of his who's the head 18:47.493 --> 18:49.128 of new works for Opera America and said, 18:49.128 --> 18:50.830 "Who do I need to talk to?" 18:50.830 --> 18:52.765 And she said, "Oh, you should talk to this guy," 18:52.765 --> 18:55.568 who was me, who was very much new to the game. 18:55.568 --> 18:58.437 That was seven years ago, and so he reached out to me 18:58.437 --> 19:02.508 and he said, "I think maybe just a 10- or 12-minute piece. 19:02.508 --> 19:05.845 "I don't know what it is, I think we maybe could 19:05.845 --> 19:07.480 interview soldiers, what do you think?" 19:07.480 --> 19:10.449 And I said, absolutely, which is not unlike 19:10.449 --> 19:13.653 what I had done with the Ghosts of Crosstown. 19:13.653 --> 19:16.856 - Right. - Interviews as inspiration, 19:16.856 --> 19:19.158 as a starting point for content. 19:19.158 --> 19:22.228 Which again, is not something that opera typically does. 19:22.228 --> 19:25.464 So the idea of like adapting a novel, 19:25.464 --> 19:27.867 or this was a movie and now we're gonna make it into, 19:27.867 --> 19:30.503 or this was, you know, that has been the mode 19:30.503 --> 19:32.171 for new work a lot of times with opera, 19:32.171 --> 19:36.409 but new work from community or new work from interviews 19:36.409 --> 19:38.811 is not something that typically happens. 19:38.811 --> 19:41.447 So I stuck out beautifully, right? 19:41.447 --> 19:43.849 I was like, oh, who's that guy, again. 19:43.849 --> 19:45.484 - Right. - And so I, 19:45.484 --> 19:46.685 he said, "Let's do this." 19:46.685 --> 19:49.388 He then took this idea to his superiors, 19:49.388 --> 19:52.058 they gave it a thumbs-up, pursue it, 19:52.058 --> 19:55.161 and he presented the 10- to 12-minute idea 19:55.161 --> 19:58.197 at an opera, the next Opera America conference 19:58.197 --> 20:01.267 and immediately had multiple opera companies 20:01.267 --> 20:05.104 come up to him and say we wanna support a full length. 20:05.104 --> 20:08.641 So it went from 10 to 12 to 15 20:08.641 --> 20:12.178 to a full like chamber opera. 20:12.178 --> 20:14.246  - Wow.   - So yeah, and so we, 20:14.246 --> 20:16.348  next thing, we went to   Fort Meade and Fort Myer 20:16.348 --> 20:20.986  and Walter Reed and   interviewed soldiers. 20:20.986 --> 20:22.421  - How tough was that? 20:25.124 --> 20:26.592  - It was unknown, right? 20:26.592 --> 20:27.793  So the idea of   walking in the door, 20:27.793 --> 20:29.295  we didn't know   anything to expect. 20:29.295 --> 20:30.529  - Right.   - Like we had no prep 20:30.529 --> 20:32.398  ahead of time with any   of our interviewees. 20:32.398 --> 20:33.966  And they volunteered to come in, 20:33.966 --> 20:35.968  and everyone was   willing to talk, right? 20:37.436 --> 20:40.906  And what was   amazing [laughs] was 20:42.708 --> 20:44.944  they were much more   comfortable than I was. 20:44.944 --> 20:48.414  You know, at the front, I   didn't know what to ask, really. 20:48.414 --> 20:49.949  - Yeah.   - I just was like, 20:49.949 --> 20:52.618  I just kept on be curious,   be curious, be curious. 20:52.618 --> 20:55.521  And then these interviews   started unfolding, 20:55.521 --> 20:57.123  and I have to tell   you, it was like, 20:57.123 --> 21:02.027  yes, moving, hysterical,   and immediately we started 21:02.027 --> 21:04.163  seeing these kinds   of themes coming out 21:04.163 --> 21:05.498 again and again with each interview 21:05.498 --> 21:08.000 that seemed to repeat, these kind of ideas 21:08.000 --> 21:10.503 like family and what community looks like 21:10.503 --> 21:13.439 to people who serve, and then immediately we knew 21:13.439 --> 21:15.341 that this was gonna end up being a piece 21:15.341 --> 21:18.077 ultimately about kind of the distance 21:18.077 --> 21:21.247 between civilians and service members 21:21.247 --> 21:23.415 and how to bridge that distance. 21:23.415 --> 21:25.417 Because as someone who doesn't serve, 21:25.417 --> 21:27.486 it was fascinating to come in and go like, 21:27.486 --> 21:30.222 you know, teach me, talk to me about that. 21:31.590 --> 21:35.194 The first interview of the very first day 21:35.194 --> 21:38.964 was a young man named Tyler who was in a roadside attack, 21:38.964 --> 21:40.699 suffered a traumatic brain injury, 21:41.867 --> 21:43.135 had been through many, many surgeries 21:43.135 --> 21:45.204 and had been in a coma for many years, 21:45.204 --> 21:46.906 sorry, many years, many months, 21:47.940 --> 21:51.010 and had this incredible story 21:51.010 --> 21:54.947 about what that coma experience was like for him 21:54.947 --> 21:57.249 and what he recalls and what he remembers 21:58.751 --> 22:03.589 and how the synapses fire, and we leaned into that story 22:03.589 --> 22:05.825 right of the bat, and we knew that that was probably 22:05.825 --> 22:07.960 gonna end you being the arc of the piece. 22:07.960 --> 22:09.695 - Yeah. - This idea of this liminal 22:09.695 --> 22:14.700 space where an induced coma places the mind of the soldier. 22:16.235 --> 22:17.469 And it allowed us a lot of freedom 22:17.469 --> 22:20.206 to also interject different voices 22:20.206 --> 22:21.941 and different stories in different areas. 22:21.941 --> 22:23.776 - Yeah, and I love that fact that you 22:23.776 --> 22:25.778 focused on a female lead. 22:25.778 --> 22:27.046 - We did. - That was interesting. 22:27.046 --> 22:28.147 - It was in the plan from the beginning. 22:28.147 --> 22:29.582 - Was it! - Yeah, yeah, yeah! 22:31.350 --> 22:33.852 Opera needs, what do you say, 22:33.852 --> 22:37.122 opera needs more kick-ass ladies. 22:37.122 --> 22:38.624 You know? - Yeah. 22:38.624 --> 22:41.694 - It really needs that voice, it really needs that space. 22:41.694 --> 22:44.697 And yeah, we knew we wanted to, and also, 22:44.697 --> 22:49.702 a lot of the interviewees that we had were something else. 22:50.703 --> 22:52.104 - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, 22:52.104 --> 22:56.809 tough and fierce and smart and yeah. 22:58.310 --> 22:59.578 - And it's being performed all over the country now. 22:59.578 --> 23:01.113 - It is! - Yeah. 23:01.113 --> 23:03.482 - It was a co-production, so the people that came forward 23:03.482 --> 23:06.919 at that opera conference, so that was Opera Memphis, 23:08.087 --> 23:12.658 Seattle, Opera Seattle, San Diego, Arizona, 23:12.658 --> 23:16.061 Texas Christian University, and Seagle Music Colony. 23:16.061 --> 23:17.329 - Wow. - And they came forward 23:17.329 --> 23:18.831 and they said we wanna help make this happen, 23:18.831 --> 23:23.602 so we ended up, that is the most wonderful thing, 23:23.602 --> 23:26.005 the idea that we're gonna make a thing, 23:26.005 --> 23:29.308 and it is gonna have all of these moments, 23:29.308 --> 23:32.378 all of these destinations so that we can also then 23:33.612 --> 23:36.015 tighten it up and get it to where 23:36.015 --> 23:37.549 it wants to be along the way. 23:37.549 --> 23:39.885 It's also been done, there was a small tour 23:39.885 --> 23:41.720 in Upstate New York. - Ah! 23:41.720 --> 23:46.725 - It was performed also in Peabody music school, 23:48.093 --> 23:50.996 which is a fabulous prestigious music school. 23:52.865 --> 23:55.100 And there are other places, so people are already 23:55.100 --> 23:57.703 reaching out to us about doing it in other locations. 23:57.703 --> 23:59.405 So it has this amazing life. 24:00.572 --> 24:02.007 - Well, you're gonna do another collaboration 24:02.007 --> 24:03.242 with Opera Memphis. - I am. 24:03.242 --> 24:05.010 - Maybe tease us just a little bit of what 24:05.010 --> 24:06.412 that's gonna be about. - Sure, sure. 24:06.412 --> 24:09.114 Robert Patterson, Memphis's own Robert Patterson 24:09.114 --> 24:11.684 is gonna be the composer for that piece, 24:11.684 --> 24:16.422 and it is a story inspired by 1892, 24:16.422 --> 24:21.427 Alice Mitchell and Freda Ward, who fell in love. 24:22.494 --> 24:23.862 They went to the Higbee School for girls 24:23.862 --> 24:28.600 in Memphis, Tennessee, and it ended in a, 24:28.600 --> 24:31.737 I should probably tease it, it ends in a murder. 24:31.737 --> 24:35.007 - Ooh! - So and it was 24:35.007 --> 24:37.676 a very sensational trial at the time, 24:37.676 --> 24:41.947 and a fascinating, fascinating story. 24:41.947 --> 24:44.216 - So when do you think that's gonna be mounted, any idea? 24:44.216 --> 24:45.584 - Well, we're having the libretto reading 24:45.584 --> 24:47.619 coming up this week, the first draft, 24:47.619 --> 24:51.223 so it's gonna be in process for the next year and a half. 24:51.223 --> 24:52.658 - Oh, my gosh, that's exciting. 24:52.658 --> 24:53.926 - Yeah, it is very exciting. 24:53.926 --> 24:55.861 - One other exciting thing, too, 24:55.861 --> 24:58.297 before we wrap it up, you're about to work 24:58.297 --> 25:00.032 with a Pulitzer Prize-winning composer, 25:00.032 --> 25:02.334 Jerre Dye, Jennifer Higdon! 25:02.334 --> 25:03.402 - She's something else. 25:03.402 --> 25:05.170 - Wow! - She's the best. 25:05.170 --> 25:06.839 - What's the story? 25:08.273 --> 25:10.209 - I don't know if I can actually talk about the story yet! 25:10.209 --> 25:12.978 I can tell you it's with Opera Philadelphia, 25:12.978 --> 25:16.648 so excited about it, and very excited 25:16.648 --> 25:17.583 about working with her. 25:17.583 --> 25:20.686 She is, yeah, she is a magician. 25:20.686 --> 25:22.287 - Ah! - Yeah, she's good people. 25:22.287 --> 25:23.522 She's from the South, too. 25:23.522 --> 25:24.957 - Oh, that's right, she is from the South. 25:24.957 --> 25:26.091 - Yes, she is. - Where is she from? 25:26.091 --> 25:27.593 - Maryville? 25:27.593 --> 25:28.761 - Huh! - Is the true? 25:28.761 --> 25:29.661 Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. 25:29.661 --> 25:30.896 - Wow. - Yeah, yeah. 25:30.896 --> 25:32.498 So yeah, so yeah, so yeah, when we met, 25:32.498 --> 25:34.666 it was like oh, hey, you. 25:34.666 --> 25:36.435 - Yeah, like this was meant to be. [laughs] 25:36.435 --> 25:37.669 - It was, yeah, it was perfect. 25:37.669 --> 25:39.505 And I had just worked on a couple of projects, 25:39.505 --> 25:43.242 and again, some people said, you need to meet Jerre, 25:43.242 --> 25:45.644 he might be a perfect match for you. 25:45.644 --> 25:49.515 So we are in the, right now we did the first half 25:49.515 --> 25:52.818 of the piece for workshop, and now we're moving 25:52.818 --> 25:55.788 into second half for the fall. 25:55.788 --> 25:56.655 - Oh, my goodness. 25:56.655 --> 25:57.790 - Yeah! - Well, listen, 25:57.790 --> 25:59.024 this is an exhilarating ride, isn't it? 25:59.024 --> 26:02.528 - It is, I don't, I truly have no idea 26:02.528 --> 26:05.130 how I ended up here, but I'm just, yeah, 26:05.130 --> 26:06.532 I'm just happy to be working, 26:06.532 --> 26:08.834 I'm happy to be a working artist. 26:08.834 --> 26:10.869 - Well, you're a fantastic working artist, 26:10.869 --> 26:12.571 and I'm glad that you carved out a little bit 26:12.571 --> 26:13.906 of time to talk to us today. 26:13.906 --> 26:15.774 Thanks so much, and I can wait to see 26:15.774 --> 26:18.744 what else happens in your operatic career 26:18.744 --> 26:21.847 and in your theater career, and it's just 26:21.847 --> 26:23.849 been a real pleasure chatting with you today. 26:23.849 --> 26:25.184 I wish we had a whole hour, but-- 26:25.184 --> 26:26.752 - I know, I know. 26:26.752 --> 26:28.387 - Thanks, Jerre Dye. - Thank you. 26:28.387 --> 26:30.956 [upbeat music] 26:47.840 --> 26:49.908 [acoustic guitar chords]