- [Voiceover] Production
funding for this program

is made possible in part by
the WKNO Production Fund,

the WKNO Endowment Fund,
and by viewers like you.

Thank you.

(ambient music)

- If you don't know who
he is, just Google him.

I'm here with the head of

Global Outreach for
Media with Google.

He's also an author.

It's time for A Conversation
with Daniel Sieberg.

So let's start with
your childhood,

and then we'll work our way
through the fun conversations

of Google, obviously,
and everything going on,

especially in the media front.

Google Labs, Google News Labs.

- [Daniel] Mm-hmm.

- And then also, too, your
book, The Digital Diet.

So let's start though,
with your childhood.

You were a scout in
Vancouver, Canada.

So give us a little bit of
your childhood, your story.

- Yeah, so I grew up on
the west coast of Canada.

Was born in Vancouver.

I spent a lot of
time in Victoria,

which was on an island,
it's on Vancouver Island.

It's a very, it's a rainforest.

For people who don't like rain,
it's not the place to live,

but it's got tons of
outdoor activities.

I grew up with the mountains,
and the ocean, and beaches,

and you know, took it
all for granted, I think,

as a kid growing up,

and did get a chance
to join the Boy Scouts.

I was a Cub Scout, and then
eventually became a Queen Scout.

The reason it's
called a Queen Scout,

is that or course Canada's
part of the commonwealth,

and so the equivalent of an
Eagle Scout, if you will.

The description when you
do receive the award,

it says something
to the effect of,

if you were called upon,
you could serve the queen,

in some sort of an
emergency situation.

- [Jeremy] You're a guardian.

- Yeah, a guardian of the queen.

I think growing up, I did
sort of secretly wished

that it had been a king scout,

depending who was on the throne.

Of course, you know, long
live the queen, and so on.

Yeah, that was a
great experience.

I think it was a
foundational one, for me.

My mom was actually a
volunteer as part of it.

You know, I got a chance to do
a lot of outdoor activities.

Hiking, and exploring, and
all that kind of stuff.

- Well I know that you
give it a lot of credit

for really shaping
who you are today.

And in terms of public speaking,

and just building connections
and relationships,

and taking a leadership role.

So it kind of shared
that side of it.

- Yeah, exactly.

I mean I think that
the three things

that I took away
from scouts were

teamwork, because
you're really encouraged

to work with your peers.

You know, whether it's putting
a tent together, right?

I mean you all have to kind
of work on it in the same way.

Going on a hike and making
sure people don't get lost.

Discipline, which
is something that,

you know, it's not the military,

but you do have to take
care of your uniform.

You know, make
yourself presentable.

Think about how
you are to society,

and sort of being a good person,

and the values of
being and scouting.

And then, achievement, you know?

I think that of course
with school, and so on,

you see, you get grades,
you get feedback.

But you know, when you're a kid
growing up, there's nothing,

I mean it was cool for
me to get badges, right?

You'd get a, you'd see that
you could actually get to some,

you know, there'd be a series
of goals you'd try to get to.

There was a reward.

I really, I thought
that was great.

And I think it helped
to shape who I am.

Now I seek out those
types of people, I think.

Similar-minded people.

Even today, when I work
on different projects,

I think about teamwork,
discipline, achievement,

and how do we kind of
cross each of those things,

and put them all together.

- The other aspect
of growing up,

is you got involved in
technology earlier on.

So your dad,
electrical engineer?

Is that correct?

- Well not full-on engineer,
I guess you would say,

but electronics
technician, if you will.

He worked with oceanographers,

and would go up to the
arctic every summer

aboard these huge, Canadian
Coastguard icebreakers.

Actually, he would do it

even before those
ships were available.

It was the only way
to get through the ice

to basically right
up to the North Pole,

to take salinity
samples of the ocean,

to look at the marine
life, you know?

He was part of the sort
of the technical side,

helping to produce the current
meters that would go down.

The research scientists were
there to look at the data.

He did this for 30 years.

I had a chance to go
with him, at one point.

As I was doing a
story for CBS News

when I was working there,
which was really cool.

He got married, at one
point, at the North Pole.

I always heard tons of
stories about polar bears,

and you know, he was just
this kind of adventurous guy.

Now he's retired, on an
island on the West Coast,

but he's got this
flowing gray hair.

He looks sort of like Gandalf
from Lord of the Rings,

at this point.

- But that allowed
you on your end,

to be able to take apart things,

and really get fascinated
with just technology overall,

which ultimately led you,
when you talked about

being a technology
reporter for CNN, CBS,

these different huge
national media outlets,

international media outlets.

That kind of paved the
way for your interest.

- Yeah.

Exactly.

I saw him being curious
about how things worked,

and always trying to figure
out how to fix things, right?

So I never got any
of those skills.

I'm not an engineer, I'm
not a programmer, right?

But seeing that,
that was possible,

and trying to sort of
be a part of that world,

I think as time went
on, what I realized was

I didn't have that ability.

What I tried to have was the
ability to explain to people

why that was important, why
technology was important,

and how it fit into our lives,
you know, as I got older.

I will say I actually took

a computer science course
in college really early on.

It was about learning Pascal.

I thought, alright, I'm gonna
try to go and actually learn

how to be a programmer.

I failed miserably.

Somehow, somebody who failed
a computer science language

ended up working at Google.

(laughing)

It is possible.

- There's hope for all of us.

- I work in marketing,
just to be clear.

I'm not an engineer.

I think having that, sort
of, insatiable curiosity

about how things work,

and the value of them in society

was a big part of what
I learned from my dad,

and you know, my mom encouraged

that kind of exploration,
and stuff as well, so.

- Let's fast-forward.

Before we get to Google,
give us one story,

because you covered a lot
of really cool things.

Swimming with sharks, going
up and doing zero gravity,

so many things as a reporter.

What's one fun story
that you got to cover

you say, ah, this
is a good memory.

- I think I would have to
tell the swimming with sharks

story because there was a
bit of a technological angle

to that as well.

I was a science and
technology reporter for CBS,

so I would occasionally
cover environment,

and that kind of thing.

It was tied to shark week,

and CBS has had a
partnership with Discovery.

So I had just gotten my
scuba training in the pool,

which for anybody
who has done scuba,

you know it's very
theoretical, of course.

And you take the tests,

and you're clearing
your breathing valve.

You know, it's pretty basic.

- So you went from basic,
to swimming with sharks.

- Right.

So my first open dive,
which you have to do

to sort of be certified,
was with a tiger shark,

and about eight to
ten lemon sharks,

which sounds so sweet,
but they are not,

off the coast of the Bahamas.

I offered to go do this story
about shark conservation.

At the time, I didn't
have children or anything.

My wife thought I was insane.

I said alright, I'll go do this.

I just distinctly remember
jumping in the water

for the first
dive, and you know,

there are two or
three camera guys.

We went with an operation
called, with Stuart Cove.

He wrangles sharks
for Hollywood.

He's been around
sharks his whole life.

And he was my buddy, right?

Everybody, when you go
diving, has a buddy.

- A good buddy to have,
someone who wrangles sharks.

- Right?
(laughing)

That gave me somewhat
of a level of safety.

But I remember he had like
this vice grip on my arm.

He was like, don't move away
from me when we go down.

Just stay next to me.

And he said, don't
wave your hands around

'cause the sharks will
think that they're fish.

I'm like okay, I'll
do whatever you want.

I could remember going
down in the water,

and it was only
about like 25 feet.

The sharks were just
kind of everywhere.

This tiger shark had come,

and that's why they
were all excited

about getting in the water.

I remember having
this odd feeling

like I need to search for like,

does hitting the
snout of a shark

actually deter them
from coming toward.

But I just had this
moment of like,

I really need to know that
information right now.

- [Jeremy] Can I
Google this right now?

- That was also kind
of the time I realized

I had a bit of a
problem with technology,

where I would just, sort of
thinking about it so much.

I remember even coming
back on the boat,

you know, back to shore,

and being so lost without
service on my phone.

I was just despondent that
I couldn't share a picture,

or something, right?

Just enjoy the moment, Daniel.

Like stop being so, I need
to be connected all the time.

- And that's a big part of what
we'll talk about in a second

'cause I want to
cover Google first,

but is The Digital
Diet, this book.

We'll come back to this,

but talk about what it's
like to work at Google,

'cause I know that obviously

you're here in
Memphis right now.

You just spoke at a lot
of different events.

You got a chance to tour

St. Jude's Children's
Research Hospital,

the National Civil
Rights Museum.

So you've been immersed.

You spoke at the Friends
of Scouting dinner

with the Boy Scouts.

- [Daniel] Mm-hmm.

- But that's a big part
of the questions was,

you know, what was it
like working at Google?

What's it like?

And talk about New York.

So what's it like
working at Google?

- Yeah, you know, I went from
traditional news, as you say.

CNN, CBS, ABC, and elsewhere.

To, you know, a company that,

some people's only
touchpoint with it

is seeing something like The
Internship, the movie, right?

And wondering if
that's real, and so on.

What I would say is that there
are elements of that movie,

if that's what people
know, that are true.

People do ride bikes
across the campus.

I'm in the New York office,
but in Mountain View

people are riding
really colorful bikes,

and they're sitting outside,

and they're playing
beach volleyball.

I mean there are
lots of, you know,

ways to try to
decompress a little bit.

I think that the, and the
food is amazing and you know--

- [Jeremy] The Google 15?

Is that right?

- The Google 15, which
you put on, you know,

the first month or
two that you're there.

- And you had to
wear a hat, correct?

- You do wear the Noogler hat,

with the propeller on the top.

I think that there a lot
of ways for Googlers to,

you know, try to relax
because people there

do work incredibly hard.

But I think that by in
large, I don't think people

take advantage of them enough,

because people are so
driven, and so ambitious.

I would love to see more
people find a nap pod,

and just you know,
take a 20-minute nap,

and kind of recalibrate a bit.

Yeah, there's an emphasis
on work-life balance, right?

So these things are
there for that reason.

People work hard, and hopefully
they can find some time

to just chill out a little bit.

- Talk about the
work you actually do,

'cause a big part of this, the
news lab, the Google News Lab

and you put out a lot
of valuable information

for media outlets to use.

You help them to decipher what
all the information means,

but really interesting things.

So give us a little
bit of your world,

and what you actually
do at Google.

- Sure.

As you mentioned, I'm the
head of media outreach,

and I work on a team
called the Google News Lab.

As part of that,
we also have a team

that looks at
Google Trends data.

As people, for example,
are watching a debate,

or watching the Super
Bowl, or the Oscars,

or whatever it is, and
they want to know more.

They get curious.

They want some context
around something they saw.

It could be outside of a
temporal event like that,

but we see those
queries come in.

It's all anonymized,
aggregated data,

but we see the insights of
what's on the mind of people

when they're watching
a big sporting event,

or which celebrities
are they interested in,

which candidates, which issues,

you know, what's
front-of-mind for anybody.

And then we share that data
through our Twitter handle.

At Google Trends there's
a data curation team

that works on that.

I think it's valuable,
certainly for the media

who wants to try to tell
a story about something,

but potentially for marketers,

for companies who want to
see what people care about,

what pushed them to actually
search for something.

You know, during the
Super Bowl, for example,

we looked at the most
searched commercials

that were up on YouTube.

The most searched commercial
was actually the one with

the couple that was running
away from the bears,

and it was a car
where you can start

with a voice search command,

and you know, they drove away.

You could argue whether that
was the best commercial or not,

but it turns out
that was the one

that most people
were searching for.

So, it kind of provides
some interesting data points

for the public at large.

People want to see
it, and we do just,

you know, sort of
put it out there,

and let folks analyze
it however they like.

- I know that obviously you
got a lot in the politics realm

going on right now.

- [Daniel] Yeah.

- But that was one, there
was an interesting story

that you told of, was it Marco
Rubio that had talked about,

I'll let you tell the story.

- Yeah, yeah, no.

You're hitting on it exactly.

During one of the debates
that was Marco Rubio,

saying something to the
effect of, you know,

we don't need more philosophers,

you know, we need more
welders, not philosophers.

I think he might have
said something about

how they make a decent
salary, or something.

So we're always looking
for those moments,

you know, during the debate.

Like when do people during
the second screen experience,

go to their computer?

And that was one of them.

We saw a spike in, not
only in people looking for

what did he say, but a search
spike around welding classes.

So people actually taking
that initiative to go,

and potentially become a welder,

as a result of those comments.

We see those spikes
happen throughout you
know, the debates.

As we get into the sort
of general election,

we'll be looking at the
presidential debates.

- [Jeremy] RIght.

- We did this four years ago,
but this is the first time

that we're making
real-time data available.

Four years ago,
when we did this,

we had to wait a period of
time after a debate had ended,

to go back, and engineers
look at the data.

Now it's all real-time.

We have a horse race graphic

where you can see
search interest

around each candidate,
minute by minute.

What did somebody say that
really pushed them to search?

You know, we look at
the different issues

that people are searching for.

If somebody does start
talking about gun control,

does that really push people
to search for gun control?

I think it's an interesting
reflection of the electorate,

and what matters to people.

It's the kind of stuff that
you may not be comfortable

sharing on social, you know?

You might now want
to say hey everybody,

I'm interested in
being a welder.

Does anybody know some
local welding classes?

It just maybe wouldn't make
sense to do it on social,

but you feel like you
want to do it on search.

So it's almost more of
a reflection of kind of

the true self, if you will.

- Obviously, you're
on the front lines,

and you talk about technology
things like virtual reality.

Give us an idea of
some of the hot things.

Google's working pretty
heavily, and behind-the-scenes

obviously than what
we know as the public,

but lots of really cool things.

Cars that drive themselves and--

- Yeah.

- Technology is
so just massively

rapidly changing.

Talk about some
of the major ones.

Virtual reality,
some of the things

you guys are doin' there.

- Sure.

Our team is a very
cross-product team.

In other words, we look
at trends, and search,

and YouTube, and
data visualization,

and all kinds of things.

Some teams within Google are
much more vertical, right?

So we kind of have a
very panoramic view,

or try to have a panoramic
view of how tools

apply to journalists,
and newsrooms, and so on.

By extension, we look
at virtual reality,

which has become
a very hot topic

for a lot of broadcasters
and publishers.

They want to think about
new ways to tell stories.

We have Google Cardboard,
which if folks haven't seen it,

it literally is
made of cardboard.

You fold it together,
put your phone in it.

There's a cardboard app,
you hold it up to your head,

and you can look around
and see 360 video,

there are different
apps that are created

to put people into
different situations.

It's, I think, for a lot
of people, really exciting.

It's a new way of
immersing someone

in an empathic point of view.

That I think, there have been
huge advances in that already.

Of course, there are
other manufacturers

that are out there
creating different devices.

Some of them cost
more than others.

Thinking about the
production side of it,

that costs are coming down,
how to capture 360 video,

how to stitch it together--

- [Jeremy] Which you did
that at the White House.

- That--

- Shot of the White House.

- [Daniel] That's right.

- It's just so neat to
how you use technology

to be able to tell stories.

- Yeah.

We did have a chance to do it.

The first 360 image
with the president,

after the State of the Union

we were there with
YouTube creators,

and we were in the east wing,

and we captured a 360
with the president.

You could actually see,
kind of, everything around.

The beauty of 360 is that
you can see everything.

Of course, if we
did one right now,

you would see the camera
guys, and the curtain,

and the whole thing, right?

Sometimes it's a trade-off for,

it's a very different
way of telling stories.

If you're using video, for
example, with 360 video,

all of a sudden there's
no B-Roll, right?

Because everything's
just there all the time.

- [Jeremy] Right.

- How do you do an
interview in 360,

because you can't sort
of cut back and forth.

There's just a lot.

If you're using
animation, let's say.

There are folks looking at
how to recreate a news story.

If there was a police shooting
on the street, or something,

and you wanted to
digitally animate,

recreate what that was
like, and show people,

you know, these
are the conditions

when that shooting happened.

How accurate do you have to be

to show they have the lighting?

Where was the person?

Did he pull his gun
at what moment, right?

All these ethical
considerations.

It's all brand-new for,
not just for newsrooms,

but for other people, brands
that are using it, and so on.

Yeah, it's a big, hot
topic for a lot of people.

- Well obviously that's where
we could spend a whole show

in and of itself.

Probably like a
whole series of shows

just talking about technology,

and everything that's going on.

I do want to talk
about the book.

The Digital Diet is the book.

The four-step plan to
break your tech addiction,

and regain balance in your life.

And that's what it's all
about, is regaining balance.

As we were talking before,
the moment with the sharks.

You realized wait a second.

Also, too many, you were
just getting off of traveling

with your wife.

- Mm-hmm, that's right.

- She's like, wait a second.

Please put your phone down.

- (laughs) Yeah.

- You realized, and you
were on the front lines

way early being a tech reporter,

saying wait a second, what
is technology doing to me?

How is it affecting
my relationships?

Not only with my
friends and family,

but with my wife, and
now your children.

- [Daniel] Mm-hmm.

- Talk about though, the book,

and obviously we kind of covered

why you wrote it a little bit,

but talk about some
of the main things.

Because there's really some
great information there

on a test that you
can take to figure out

kind of like your BMI, but
your virtual weight index.

There's all sorts of
good information here.

- Yeah, thank you
for teeing that up.

The book was driven by a
personal experience, as you say.

That I felt just overwhelmed,

and was not managing my
technology effectively.

I always felt like I
had to post something

on social media as it happened.

I was in a social setting.

I was the person who was like
this, kind of constantly.

I just wasn't aware.

And by virtue of my job,
I just kind of had access

to all the stuff.

I mean more than
the average person.

So the book started as a blog.

It started as me just
saying hey, everybody.

In fact, when I announced...

Announced.

There wasn't some like,
big national announcement.

When I posted the blog,
I was working at CBS,

and I said I'm gonna
take eight months,

or I'm gonna take some
time off social media.

I'm just gonna quit, right?

I got emails from some of my
colleagues and contemporaries

who work in tech
reporting and stuff.

They were like, are you crazy?

What you do you mean
you're gonna like quit?

- [Jeremy] You're the tech guy!

- This is like
completely anathema

to what you're supposed to,
you're supposed to be like

embracing everything.

I said I can't do it anymore.

And the people were
kind of like, concerned.

They were like, ooh wow,
he's like kinda lost it.

I said I just have
to do it, for me.

It did start out as a
very personal journey.

I don't think I quite ever
imagined it becoming a book.

As time went on, I heard
from people who said like,

I have this problem, you know.

So it changed from
being so much about me,

but more about like
collectively, how
can we approach this?

- The average person
checks their cell phone,

what, 125 times a day?

- Right?

I mean this is the kind of
data, that when you look at it,

and you think, what do
I do with all that time?

You know, 125 times per day.

And is it productive, and should
I be doing something else,

or put my phone away entirely?

It's different for
everybody, right?

There are food parallels

by design here, right?

When you think
about food choices.

We all have to, we make
lots of different choices.

At Google for example,
talk about food,

there are healthy choices
that might be in a clear case,

and then the unhealthy stuff,

like maybe some
candy, and so on.

It's there, but it's
a little hidden.

It's in an opaque container,
so you have to make a choice

to go get that, right?

Well, it's the same
with technology.

We may or may not use it for
something healthy and positive.

It may or may not have
consequences of some kind.

It may or may not help us
from a well-being standpoint.

If we don't get enough sleep,
or if we're not in touch

with our own identity anymore,

and we're just projecting
ourselves to the world.

So, there are a lot of
parallels with food.

You mentioned the
virtual weight index,

which is based on the BMI,
which everybody knows,

is just kind of this
rudimentary equation

of your height and your weight,

and is this a healthy profile.

Same idea with the
virtual weight index,

which is based on all the
weight that you can't see.

All of the passwords, and
devices, and services,

and games, and all
the rest of it,

that we kind of carry
with us all the time.

It's like digital baggage.

We're not always aware
of what it's doing to us,

and we're not also
thinking necessarily about

do we really need this,
and should we sort of,

move onto something else?

I know this sounds counter
to working at Google,

and it's like wait,
this guy's tellin' us

to not use our technology?

That's actually not
what I'm saying.

I'm just saying use it--

- Use Google, just have balance.

- Yes. (laughs)

You know?

And use it in a
way that's mindful

of whatever you
want to use it for.

- Talk about some of the tips,

'cause I know that we running
close to the end time.

- [Daniel] Yeah.

- You have a ton of
great tips in here.

- [Daniel] Hmm.

- One of my favorites is when
you're out at a restaurant,

have everybody stack
their cell phones,

and whoever touches it
first has to pay the bill.

- [Daniel] Yeah.

- But share some of the tips.

Maybe a few of your favorites.

- Sure.

Phone stack is a good one.

I think for me personally,

not charging smartphone in
the bedroom is another one.

That became a real issue
with my wife and I.

She had a nickname for me.

It was glow-worm, because my
face was always illuminated

by a screen at night.

We agreed, and we charge
them in the kitchen, right?

It's fine.

I wake up, and it's not
the first thing that I do.

Now granted it's probably within
the first 10 or 15 minutes,

but I don't roll over and
that's immediately what I do.

I might like open the
curtains or the blinds,

and see the world, right, first.

It takes a minute or two.

That, to me, can
really be helpful,

and potentially give
you better sleep,

because I think when
the phone's in the room,

you're always tempted to
just go and look at it.

A couple others, I
mean I would say,

I hope no one from Google is
listening right at this minute,

but I turn off my work
email notifications.

If I want to check
my work email,

it's more of a
proactive decision.

I will go into my work
email, and I will look at it,

but I'm not getting the
pings at the top of my--

- [Jeremy] Right.

You're choosing when to check.

- Right.

That feels like I have a
little more control over that,

because you could check
email 24/7, if you wanted to.

The last one I think, is
with out-of-office messages,

and we all use them, you know.

You go on vacation, and
you set something up.

I think really
being strict about

when you adhere
to what that says.

If it says, if your message
says I am not available,

or I am offline, whatever it is?

Then you just have
to be not available,

unless it's some crazy
emergency, right?

Otherwise, it's just
a slippery slope of

responding to this one,
and making an exception.

- Well share what
your friend does

'cause I absolutely love it.

I'm totally stealing this, but
show what your friend does.

- So this is somebody at Google.

I actually know a number
of people who do this.

When they go on
vacation they will say,

I am currently out of the
office until such and such date.

And when I return, I will
be deleting every email

that I have received
during that time.

If you would like to
get in touch with me,

or if it's important, please
be prepared to resend it

on that day when I come back.

It's kind of like
email bankruptcy.

They're just like, I
don't want to deal with

you know, all of these emails.

And we all dread it,
coming back to the office.

So he's just decided to
put it on everybody else.

- [Jeremy] I love it.

- So, yeah.

- So, tell us where we can,

'cause obviously you've
got Twitter handles.

You've got all that good stuff.

But where can we follow
the conversations?

Where can we get the analytics?

Where can we go to
get the information?

- Yeah.

A few places.

I would say, if you want to
know more about the news lab

and what we do, it's
just g.co/newslab,

or @GoogleNewsLab, is
the Twitter handle.

Our trends data,
google.com/trends,

or @GoogleTrends.

We push all of that out.

We make some graphics
and visualizations

to make it kind of look fun.

Yeah, and if you're
interested in more

about The Digital Diet book,
it's TheDigitalDietBook.com.

Yeah.

No shortage of stuff there
about the team and us--

- Lots of very
helpful information.

Greatly appreciate you
comin' on the show.

Thank you everybody, for
watching a conversation

with Daniel Sieberg.

(ambient music)