>> The horrific mass shooting
in Uvalde, Texas that left 19
school children along with 2
teachers. Dead is refreshing.
Conversations about action
against gun violence. I talked
with the Kentucky Education
commissioner and school safety
officials about how safe our
Kentucky schools and what can
be done to make them even
safer. That's now on
connections.
Thank you for joining us for
connections again today.
I'm Renee Shaw. Thank you.
You know, last week we talked
to a mass shooting survivor
Whitney Austin about her
experience and her calls for
action and policy proposals
to finally do something about
gun violence. Well, I had a
chance earlier this week to
speak to Kentucky Education
Commissioner Jason Glass about
this very issue. And here's
what he had to say.
Commissioner Glass, we
appreciate a few minutes of
your time.
>> Glad to be here with you in
a any time.
>> Yes, sorry, it's under such
but I do want to get your
reaction because you have an
experience that many people may
not know about that can really
how many people are viewing
this evolve Day elementary
school shooting that killed
19 innocent children and 2
teachers.
>> All right. Well, before
returning to Kentucky, I was
the superintendent in Jeffco,
which as wonderful community in
place to It's the Western sort
of suburbs of the Denver area.
But one distinction and has is
that it includes Columbine High
School, which but many folks
point to as the sort of genesis
are beginning of this hole
school shootings and what
happened there and the
districts also had 2 other
school shootings in its
history. And when I came to
Kentucky brought with a
colleague Thomas Woods, Tucker,
and he was the superintendent
Douglas County just south of
Jeffco that while he was
superintendent they had a
school shooting at the STEM
charter school. So we bring
those experiences here. Both
him from managing an active
shooter situation. It, of
course, when I was at Columbine
happened many years before,
but got to see the the recovery
and just continuing management
of that grieving and wound.
The community never really get
over that experience. You.
>> So when you heard about what
happened in Texas, what was
your first thought?
Well, I think I'm processing it
like a human being just like
everyone else as you're
horrified and heartbroken.
And when the reports first
start coming out, you hope that
the
>> loss of life damages a
mitigated as possible. But
goodness, that reports just
kept coming. It kept getting
worse and I kept thinking we're
on the path toward another
Sandy hook situation. Just
given the ages of the of the
children. It was happening at
an elementary school and the
death toll continued to rise.
And then I started processing
through again, many of the same
things I think other people
do. What could have happened to
prevent us getting to the
situation. And then just as a
former school administrator
thinking through what were the
procedures that were in was
where the early warnings where
they acted upon. What sort
protections did this the school
system have in the event of
an active shooter in
terms of I'm human, I'm the
building protections, things to
physically secure the a
behavioral things that you
train staff and students to do
in the event of an active
shooter. What happened when the
police responded and what what
was that situation? How quickly
could they get medical care?
They're all of those sort of
logistical considerations.
Where they are now is really
thinking about this process of
grieving in recovery, which is
going to take to for for this
community to move on from it
and never will fully heal.
>> For many parents and
educators who watch this unfold
and school was just letting out
here in Kentucky as well.
What would you say to reassure
them that Kentucky schools are
safe or perhaps?
>> I
statistically school is one
of the safest places in a child
can So you look injuries or
how children get hurt in
school, in spite of the sort
epidemic of school shootings
continues happen. Schools are
really safe place for students
and Kentucky's done some good
things when it comes to school
safety a couple of years ago in
the wake of the Marshall County
the Legislature passed the
Senate bill, one of the school
Safety and Resiliency Act which
took a lot of steps statewide
to put in place a system of
support and ensure that we have
basis of school safety around
That was that was a good step.
They continue to look at
elements school resource
officers who I think can be a
tremendous positive impact on
school. Clearly we've seen from
the Stoneman Douglas shooting.
They're not a There are lots of
things that can go wrong.
All of the systems have
weaknesses that can be
exploited, especially if people
don't follow through on what
they are supposed to do.
So the SRO by itself is not a
panacea, but even this past
session, while the legislature
took action to get an SRO in
buildings, the field to put the
funding with that to make it
actually happen or the supports
that are necessary to train
police officers to be to
sorrows. You can just take any
cop and put them in the
building and expect that to be
successful to different
mentality and mindset. If you
have a police officer that
becomes part of the school
community and he's a supportive
part of the kids and the staff
in the building. It's a
different mindset that requires
a different kind of training.
So we need to supports to
create sorrows and we need the
resources to actually put them
in building if we want to
achieve the results that I
think the Legislature hope for
with the bill last year.
>> There may be some renewed
calls to arm school personnel,
teachers, administrators.
What do you think of that?
>> I really don't like this
idea on a number of And I think
it starts we're not hearing
from teachers that they want
responsibility it is a
perishable skill to have to
this on a continuous basis.
And if we look at shootings
that I'm a trained law
enforcement have on a regular
basis. They don't always hit
their targets. And so you have
someone who has minimal
training and minimal and not
the mindset to be carrying a
gun into a hostile situation
that you're asking to pull that
out and engage with the shooter
I think a lot of things can go
The other thing is law
enforcement after Columbine,
one of the one of the lessons
that we learned in column by
that I think was repeated an
error that was repeated in
Texas is that law enforcement
is trained when there's an act
of sheer you breach the
building and you engage the
shooter. That was something
that happened in Columbine.
You can remember those hours.
We watch that unfold and
students climbing out of
windows and trying to get out
of the building that change the
procedures for law enforcement.
After that. Now they're taught
you engage. That clearly didn't
happen in Texas. But one of the
problems that you can have a
few the staff inside the
building is when the law
enforcement peers and breaches
the building, you have a bunch
of people with guns inside.
They don't know who the shooter
is and who isn't. That is a
significant problem that I
don't think you have an answer
for. I think weapons and
protection and hardening
schools has a place that an
important part of this
conversation. In addition to
getting upstream and thinking
about how we can prevent the
situation from happening in the
first place. Hardening the
school is an important part of
the conversation but I think
I'm expecting a classroom
teacher to have this
responsibility and then carry
executed, carry it out in a
hostile situation. There's a
little far fetched more than a
little farfetched.
>> What do you mean by carrying
it upstream? Because we have
talked about the hardening, a J
R D and the hardening of
school. So the soft, the
emotional skills, et cetera.
Is that what you mean when you
made about how do you broach
this from an upstream
perspective? Yes, so well,
almost all of these cases where
we look at the shooter and that
it is true with the Texas
shooter as well. You see lots
of in advance of the act.
That gives you warning signals
that something bad is about
to happen.
>> And do we have systems in
place where that can be
reported and then acted on.
And there's a clear a set of
accountability or follow up for
those sorts of actions.
Kentucky has a system that's
designed to do that. The stop
tip it needs a lot more
attention. It needs more
resources. It needs to be
better known. But following
Columbine again in Colorado,
one of the things that was put
in place, there was a system
called safe to tell that we are
well resourced and people knew
about it. And it was a way that
you could a questionable
behavior and went to a
dispatcher and the dispatcher
then investigated it and then
sent a copy to the school
superintendent or their
designee in law enforcement.
You had to follow up unresolved
that show that you've taken
some action that was stored and
logged as well. All of these
are steps we can take to get
upstream as well as providing a
stronger mental supports.
We talk about having 250
counselors for student has a
goal ratio. We're a long way
from that. And again, if the
legislature in the state has
that as a priority, we have to
provide the resources and the
personnel to actually make that
happen.
>> And that was a part of the
original SB One from 2019 that
made that ratio. Of course,
it was. That was a negotiated
number. But we're still nowhere
close to matching matter.
Some districts doing better
than others.
>> Well, you you put schools in
the position of making these
really wicked Do you want 35
kindergartners in the classroom
or do you want to add another
counselor or do you want to
have a an intervention? That's
because you know, your students
are behind because of COVID.
These are the kinds of wicked
choices that schools have to
make on a regular basis.
And so I think appropriating
the resource to allow for us to
have both the proactive in the
case of of an active shooter.
Have the resources available in
the school so that we can
respond proactively and in that
I'm a terrible us a situation
that they are there.
>> Of the 525 million dollars
at the Kentucky General
Assembly appropriated to local
school districts. I I think
primarily for teacher raises.
Do you think this becomes a
part of how that money is doled
out?
>> I think going especially
in environment. We've got to
look more at not only the
hardening of schools, as you
say, but even more emphasis on
the upstream. How can we get to
greater mental health supports
bolstering that system of early
reporting and the intervention
so that we can get get ahead of
these things before they happen
again in the case of the Texas
shooter. And if you look at
most school and mass murderers
who have come to this point.
The signs were all there.
The signs were all there and
they were ignored or
inappropriately. And so what
can we do to make sure that
that's not happening is an
important question.
>> Well, Commissioner Jason
Glass, thank you for your
perspective and your time.
Thank you.
Our thanks to Doctor Jason
Glass. The commissioner of the
Kentucky Department of
Education for talking with us
about how Kentucky schools are
broaching. The topic and
concern of school safety coming
up here on connections in just
a second. I have a conversation
with to school safety
officials, John Akers, who runs
the Kentucky Center for School
Safety and Ben Wilcox, who is
the Kentucky school security
safety Marshall. That's coming
up.
Well, welcome, John Acres and
Mister Ben Wilcox, thank you
for being here. I'm sorry is
under such unfortunate
circumstances, but thank you
for your time. Thank you.
Very welcome. Thank you.
I do want to start by just
helping people understand what
Kentucky is doing to keep
Kentucky schools, the teachers,
the parents, the staff, the
kids safe. And Mister Akers,
I'll begin with you because
we've made legislation laws
that date back to maybe even
before the Marshall County High
School shooting. That happened
in 2018, 2019 legislation was
passed. Is that keeping
Kentucky kids and students and
teachers safe enough. I think
it's making some great strides.
We started as
>> early as 1998. After the
Heat high school shooting.
It happened in December 1997.
and the General established the
Kentucky Center for School
Safety, which an agency that's
designed to provide as much
help to our public schools as
possible in training resources
and things like that. Then
after the shooting that
occurred as Sandy Hook Senate
Bill 8 past. But the General
Assembly in 2013 that added
more legislation and more
requirements for safety issues
in our schools. And then, of
course, after the Marshall
County shooting, the school
safety resiliency accent but
want to send a bill late that
even gave us more. And that is
more walls to be able to try to
keep our schools just a little
safer than they have been in
the past.
>> And it established the state
School safety which is your
position. Tell us what you do.
>> Well, this gold school
safety resilience yet create
our position, too. Do on site
reviews and risk assessments on
every local school district in
the state of Kentucky. We have
15 compliance officers. 3 of
them are supervisors, 12 of
them, our actual compliance
officers that are located
regionally throughout the
state. Each compliance officer
has about 120 schools. A piece
and we walk in and do risk
assessments on every school
in the state of Kentucky, at
least once a year, sometimes
because we also provide
training. Our job is almost
like a health inspector, a fire
inspector, except we're going
in and making sure the mandates
that are set forth by the
school safety was a TEA Act
are being followed. We also
are there is a referee source
that if a school needs you
tuned up on safety or has
questions about it, we can
assist and then we can also
push those questions over to
this Kentucky Center for school
safety to have them assist the
school's. We also required to
come out with a report every
year. We did our first report
last year. That shows where
we're at and in the state of
Kentucky. What resources are
needed word. We need to go to
make school safer. We've been
doing this for 3 years. We're
on our 3rd risk right now.
And the biggest thing is our
compliance officers have a
phenomenal relationship with
the schools that if they have
a question, they can call
someone that can be on their
doorstep within 24 hours to a
system right?
>> With a lot of times we
talked about the 2019 school
safety and resiliency. Add to
Mister Akers. We often heard
the term hardening the schools,
but there's another. I think
another term that both of you
prefer. But what do we mean
by that?
>> Well, there are 2 camps.
What I call the hardware and
the hardware But there are some
where the hardware, right,
right? The hardware side of it
is basically or access control.
That's the term you're looking
for how we're going to make
sure that our schools are
secure as possible. Exterior
doors locked and that the front
door to be monitored
electronically and have people
come in to be sure that they
are checking in to see what
they're doing, making sure that
they are there for legitimate
reasons. And then the other
side of this equation is the
mental health side of this
issue. And there are so many
children that have issues long
before COVID even came into
play that need help. Now
schools are served as kind like
triage units. We identify some
of these issues, but we're not
trained to be able to handle
it. And so that's, you know,
therefore, we get in contact
with our mental health care
providers in our communities.
And we try to send parents to
them with their children safe.
We can't just get some of these
issues resolved.
>> So do we know that schools
are complying? Mister Wilcox
with making sure exterior doors
are locked and that those are
now mandates is not permissive
language. It's a requirement.
>> From a report last we were
in the high 90's with with a a
90 percentile of compliance.
And we also see with this year
reported even going to be
better. But the high 90's is
not good enough for school
safety. We have to be 100% all
the time. The end. That's one
of the reasons why we do on
site reviews. This isn't a
phone call that says, hey, all
your doors locked, our
compliance officers going in
and rattling each They're
checking next here. Doors.
If we get a call and complain
on the school, this is where
the doors are open will go look
and see if you will, will
combat that with not only
putting in a report, an insane
will have to be back for a
reassessment to get this fixed.
We'll come back and talk to all
your staff and explain to them
why this is so important.
We've got so many teachers that
may have not had that mindset
of why we need to lock doors.
And that's great that they've
never needed that mindset.
But we have to have that
mindset now because it's the
safety of our kids. So just
going in and having one of our
compliance officer saying it's
an extra layer security.
This is why we lock the
exterior doors were locked into
your doors and it clicks and
goes. I
see why. I'll tell you one of
our helpers, as we should say
in school safety and our kids.
Our kids know those doors need
to be a lot when Miss Gabbert
doesn't shuttered or, you miss
gathered, the door's not
closed. It supposed to be
close. Those are some of our
best to help. First when it
comes to school safety or
parents coming in and saying,
well, it was too easy for me to
get in. We need to work on
this. And that's what our
office is there to do him.
>> What lessons have you
learned just from the
information that we know so far
about you've all day? What are
you taking a close look at to
say, OK, maybe we need to tweak
some of our policy, some of our
laws to make sure that we can't
prevent to the greatest extent
possible. That incident from
happening in Kentucky.
>> I think that I've been
hearing in the news media
basically talked about exterior
doors being breached, mentor in
and interior doors being
breached. And like Ben just
mentioned, our access control
laws require those things to be
in place here in Kentucky.
So I think that we should be
pretty good there. But like Ben
said, it's not 100% and that
needs to be closer to 100% on
that.
>> What about metal detectors
in every school?
Metal detectors AR is window
dressing.
It sets a standard for
the school. They're all going
through the front doors are all
being checked. But what about
the side doors? What about the
windows? What about after
school? I was a high school
principal for years. The door
state wide open after 3 o'clock
for all activities. So if
somebody wanted to get a weapon
in there or contraband and
there they could do it.
Built partly on just coming
through the front door at 8
o'clock in the we find that
that the best tool out there is
the relationship between the
teacher and the kid that the
child really feels that the
teacher cares for them. Then
they're going to say, hey, I'm
hearing something that I don't
think sounds right. Maybe
someone's got a gun. Someone's
got a knife. Someone's got some
dope, whatever the case may be.
The teacher can look into Taken
to the administrator, take it
to their sorrow and to be
involved with that. So at
National your Bill module
asking former under Secretary
of education charge of safe and
drug-free schools. We'll tell
you the same thing that it's
the relationships that really
help prevent. Think more.
So the metal detectors or, you
know, any other kind of a door
stops that you might be having.
>> The legislature this past
time passed a law. Mister
Wilcox, the require school
resource officers in every
school. And if they're not able
to accommodate that for
financial reasons are finding
the personnel need to work with
the UN and the Center for
School Safety to come up with
a plan. Do you think that that
would such an episode where
they've all day as we learned
that perhaps there was some
hesitation there and what kind
of training our SRO is getting
to build those relationships
with kids?
>> Well, yes, the hbr House
bill 63 was just passed it that
requires a SRO for every campus
in the state of Kentucky by
August. First 2022 and less,
there's funding or personnel
issues for that school as our
office will be putting out
surveys to the schools to find
out a lot of different
information. How many sro's do
you have? How suroeste you need
what you're going to take
funding wise for that. sorrows,
are you having trouble finding
personnel? So we have some
school districts that have the
money but can't find the
personnel. And we have some
school districts don't have
the money. And so we really
need to really nail down what's
going on the state to get to
that point coming from SRO
background. I was SRO starting
in 1999. After Columbine the
state of Kentucky is
implemented 120 hours where the
certification sro's. That's
3 weeks for that rain over a
three-year period of time.
The training is absolutely
phenomenal. I can't find
another state that has that
much for certification and it
works its way in from mental
health for our officers working
with the, you know, special
needs kids working with all
different types of mental
health procedures. And if you
ask yes, or what do I need to
be trained? Almost it's had a
deal with mental health with
special needs. That's where
they want their training and it
works its way into what I call
the tip of the spear training,
where you're actually learning
about rapid deployment. You're
working with rap diploma,
active shooter training because
most rose are your resource for
the kids, their friends, those
kids. But if someone comes in
that school, they've got to
beat the tip of the spear to
protect those So it's
absolutely amazing what we've
got going in state of Kentucky
when it comes as our train.
I'm very proud to be part of
that
>> program. And as you know,
that was quite controversial.
The conversations around that
particularly in communities
where there is some schism
between the law enforcement
community and the kids who are
being served by law What do you
say to that?
>> Well, again, going back to
be an SRO when you're working
with those kids, those kids
are your baby's nose. When you
take care of, there were a lot
of kids. I think John even
brought this up. A lot of kids
that didn't have a relationship
with their teachers or
principles or people like that.
But they had a relationship
with me is SRO a lot of times
because I understood where they
came from. I worked a row to
and I'd be in these kids houses
and they come talk to me.
Well, you know what happened
last night? You know, this and
they had a special relationship
just I was a law enforcement
officer. And if you want to
work with the community and
heal the community, when you
have issues like this, you put
SRO an elementary school and
those kids see what they're
there for what they're really
there for. And that's to
protect them.
>> One of the things that we
constantly hear is that in many
of these cases, if not most
of these cases of a school
shooting that the school
shooter had leak some
information that on the other
side, hindsight is 2020 that
clued people and that this was
coming. So what is the lesson
we need to learn? Mister Acres
from that?
>> Well, the lessons we've
learned is that we need to
approach school shooting as a
community issue. Number one,
we receive issues that are out
in the community when the
coming through the front doors
of the school. So after
shooting is going on in the
community, there's possibly
going to be shooting. That's
going to happen in a school
drugs outside drugs inside.
You get the idea what I'm
saying So if you this is a
golden opportunity for the
communities to really bond
together and talking to
parents. I'm talking the faith
community. I'm talking the
private sector, people, the
businesses, whatever, and come
up with a way to publicize how
they can get information to us.
We have a statewide tip line is
called a stop. Tip line is in
partnership with the Kentucky
Office of Homeland Security
and Kentucky Center for School
Safety. It runs 24 7. You can
text messaging can cure COVID.
You email or you can make a
phone call and there's somebody
there. 24 7 and will receive
the call. So if something's
being lake down, here's an
obvious way to do this. Now
we run into a public relations
issue with this with this
concerns. Not enough. People
know that number. And so we're
thinking about possibly having
a major campaign with community
folks saying, OK, let's get
these numbers out, maybe and
restaurants with these little
messages that you have on your
tables. Maybe a poster
Kroger's, maybe something over
watering something over here at
the Civic Center. Whatever the
case may be saturate the market
with that tip line, that would
be one possible piece to the
puzzle of getting that
information to us. But we need
to have people to step forward
and let us know what you're
hearing and especially social
media. Excuse me. I mean, this
is by which a lot of the
communication is.
>> Is is learned and
transmitted. And so if you see
something, say something,
Mister Wilcox, right? And
there's nothing that's 2
smaller in consequential.
And it doesn't mean that you're
indicting someone. You're just
alerting authorities that, hey,
you might want to keep our eyes
on this. Is that the correct
way to look at the absolutely.
And you know, we saw it
whenever we have a tragedy like
this. We see an uptick of that.
>> You know, when I when I
start as right after Columbine,
we've got a lot of information
from the community. We've got
information from parents.
We've got information of what I
feel like, you know, this
students acting this way or
that way. And then it suddenly
Wayne's off, you know, and that
same thing happen with more.
So we were very, very focused
on school safety. And then it
starts to wane off. And this
is one of the things and this
is why it's so important.
Our offices in the school's
yearly or more. It's a constant
reminder that this has to be
done. This has to get out.
So yeah, I could agree
completely with you on that.
But I if I could have listened
to that. I get the messages
that are sent to the home
office, Homeland Security.
So I get to see what's been
coming in. I'll say probably
60% of those deal with mental
health issues. Kids considering
suicide kids who are friends of
friends that are cutting one
things like this, that it's
something
>> we really need to reach out
and get to these kids Would you
call when a police officer goes
into a House wellness check.
We're at the wellness And to be
sure that these kids are OK,
cause a lot of the kids.
I'm not being supervised in
their And so we need to be able
to have somebody to come out
there and say, are you OK?
but so it's just not about
school shooters. It's about
mental health issues as well.
Yeah.
>> And everybody keeping our
eyes being vigilant. If you see
something or hear something,
say something right.
>> If I could, there is just so
much about relationship that
there's anything to be taken
from its relationships,
relationship with the community
relationship with law
enforcement. You know, we have
a program here. The state of
Kentucky called handle with
care and we're one the only
states in the country that is
statewide. And that's a system
set up. So an officer goes into
a home saying on Tuesday night
and there's been some type of
traumatic event with a student.
They can relays the information
to the schools, the e-mail and
all it is is to say handle with
care for this child. And I have
a wife. It's a counselor at
elementary school. They get a
heads up the next day that a
child's come in that may have
had some trauma. That's where
you start. And you know, that
doesn't say anything about what
happened. But, you know, when
my wife or someone else goes in
to start to get him some love,
that's when it all comes out.
And if we can help people that
way, that summer started so
simple. So simplistic that just
having those relationships is
phenomenal.
>> Do you think they'll be an
ask a final question that you
will present to the General
Assembly when they reconvene
in 2023 as a result of what
we've seen and you've all day
and God forbid there be another
incident at the beginning of
the school year. This fall.
>> Well, we'll look at lessons
learned number one and see if
we have any areas that we need
to tweak. But I been and I
share the same thought that we
want people to move from.
Just been compliant to the law
to having that commitment.
To these laws into these
regulations into these before
to be a way of life, so to
speak in the schools where they
have to think twice about, you
know, what we're doing with
situational awareness where
we're worried about who's going
to come in through the front
door. We know it's going to
be checked. We know the
exterior doors going to be
locked. So if we can move from,
they just compliance Checkoff
list from his shop to all of
our educators saying this is
the way life is going to be in
our school forever, I think
will be a lot better down the
road.
>> Then within what we've seen
in 3 years of doing this is
that you have a lot of school
systems that they took it to
heart immediately. And we going
to do our compliance checks.
It's very, very easy because
it's a way of life. Like you
said, it's a commitment and
we're getting to that point.
We've done it only for 3 years.
Sounds like a long time.
It's really not especially
throw in a pandemic in the
middle But we're getting to
that point where people are
used to getting checked in.
We have a lot of pushback from
people. Why can't I come into
my school or was this person
check-in, mayor? I know that
person. Why let them in and it
now that it's coming to pass.
And of course, now we have this
issue that's just come up where
people are saying we know why
we do this now and it needs
to be this way.
>> Well, thank you for that.
And thank you for all the work
that you do to help keep
Kentucky school safe or safer.
We appreciate it. Thank you.
We thank you for joining us
for this conversation on
connections today. You can keep
in touch with me on Twitter and
on Facebook. Listen to previous
programs of Connections on