>> The horrific mass shooting

in Uvalde, Texas that left 19

school children along with 2

teachers. Dead is refreshing.

Conversations about action

against gun violence. I talked

with the Kentucky Education

commissioner and school safety

officials about how safe our

Kentucky schools and what can

be done to make them even

safer. That's now on

connections.

Thank you for joining us for

connections again today.

I'm Renee Shaw. Thank you.

You know, last week we talked

to a mass shooting survivor

Whitney Austin about her

experience and her calls for

action and policy proposals

to finally do something about

gun violence. Well, I had a

chance earlier this week to

speak to Kentucky Education

Commissioner Jason Glass about

this very issue. And here's

what he had to say.

Commissioner Glass, we

appreciate a few minutes of

your time.

>> Glad to be here with you in

a any time.

>> Yes, sorry, it's under such

but I do want to get your

reaction because you have an

experience that many people may

not know about that can really

how many people are viewing

this evolve Day elementary

school shooting that killed

19 innocent children and 2

teachers.

>> All right. Well, before

returning to Kentucky, I was

the superintendent in Jeffco,

which as wonderful community in

place to It's the Western sort

of suburbs of the Denver area.

But one distinction and has is

that it includes Columbine High

School, which but many folks

point to as the sort of genesis

are beginning of this hole

school shootings and what

happened there and the

districts also had 2 other

school shootings in its

history. And when I came to

Kentucky brought with a

colleague Thomas Woods, Tucker,

and he was the superintendent

Douglas County just south of

Jeffco that while he was

superintendent they had a

school shooting at the STEM

charter school. So we bring

those experiences here. Both

him from managing an active

shooter situation. It, of

course, when I was at Columbine

happened many years before,

but got to see the the recovery

and just continuing management

of that grieving and wound.

The community never really get

over that experience. You.

>> So when you heard about what

happened in Texas, what was

your first thought?

Well, I think I'm processing it

like a human being just like

everyone else as you're

horrified and heartbroken.

And when the reports first

start coming out, you hope that

the

>> loss of life damages a

mitigated as possible. But

goodness, that reports just

kept coming. It kept getting

worse and I kept thinking we're

on the path toward another

Sandy hook situation. Just

given the ages of the of the

children. It was happening at

an elementary school and the

death toll continued to rise.

And then I started processing

through again, many of the same

things I think other people

do. What could have happened to

prevent us getting to the

situation. And then just as a

former school administrator

thinking through what were the

procedures that were in was

where the early warnings where

they acted upon. What sort

protections did this the school

system have in the event of

an active shooter in

terms of I'm human, I'm the

building protections, things to

physically secure the a

behavioral things that you

train staff and students to do

in the event of an active

shooter. What happened when the

police responded and what what

was that situation? How quickly

could they get medical care?

They're all of those sort of

logistical considerations.

Where they are now is really

thinking about this process of

grieving in recovery, which is

going to take to for for this

community to move on from it

and never will fully heal.

>> For many parents and

educators who watch this unfold

and school was just letting out

here in Kentucky as well.

What would you say to reassure

them that Kentucky schools are

safe or perhaps?

>> I

statistically school is one

of the safest places in a child

can So you look injuries or

how children get hurt in

school, in spite of the sort

epidemic of school shootings

continues happen. Schools are

really safe place for students

and Kentucky's done some good

things when it comes to school

safety a couple of years ago in

the wake of the Marshall County

the Legislature passed the

Senate bill, one of the school

Safety and Resiliency Act which

took a lot of steps statewide

to put in place a system of

support and ensure that we have

basis of school safety around

That was that was a good step.

They continue to look at

elements school resource

officers who I think can be a

tremendous positive impact on

school. Clearly we've seen from

the Stoneman Douglas shooting.

They're not a There are lots of

things that can go wrong.

All of the systems have

weaknesses that can be

exploited, especially if people

don't follow through on what

they are supposed to do.

So the SRO by itself is not a

panacea, but even this past

session, while the legislature

took action to get an SRO in

buildings, the field to put the

funding with that to make it

actually happen or the supports

that are necessary to train

police officers to be to

sorrows. You can just take any

cop and put them in the

building and expect that to be

successful to different

mentality and mindset. If you

have a police officer that

becomes part of the school

community and he's a supportive

part of the kids and the staff

in the building. It's a

different mindset that requires

a different kind of training.

So we need to supports to

create sorrows and we need the

resources to actually put them

in building if we want to

achieve the results that I

think the Legislature hope for

with the bill last year.

>> There may be some renewed

calls to arm school personnel,

teachers, administrators.

What do you think of that?

>> I really don't like this

idea on a number of And I think

it starts we're not hearing

from teachers that they want

responsibility it is a

perishable skill to have to

this on a continuous basis.

And if we look at shootings

that I'm a trained law

enforcement have on a regular

basis. They don't always hit

their targets. And so you have

someone who has minimal

training and minimal and not

the mindset to be carrying a

gun into a hostile situation

that you're asking to pull that

out and engage with the shooter

I think a lot of things can go

The other thing is law

enforcement after Columbine,

one of the one of the lessons

that we learned in column by

that I think was repeated an

error that was repeated in

Texas is that law enforcement

is trained when there's an act

of sheer you breach the

building and you engage the

shooter. That was something

that happened in Columbine.

You can remember those hours.

We watch that unfold and

students climbing out of

windows and trying to get out

of the building that change the

procedures for law enforcement.

After that. Now they're taught

you engage. That clearly didn't

happen in Texas. But one of the

problems that you can have a

few the staff inside the

building is when the law

enforcement peers and breaches

the building, you have a bunch

of people with guns inside.

They don't know who the shooter

is and who isn't. That is a

significant problem that I

don't think you have an answer

for. I think weapons and

protection and hardening

schools has a place that an

important part of this

conversation. In addition to

getting upstream and thinking

about how we can prevent the

situation from happening in the

first place. Hardening the

school is an important part of

the conversation but I think

I'm expecting a classroom

teacher to have this

responsibility and then carry

executed, carry it out in a

hostile situation. There's a

little far fetched more than a

little farfetched.

>> What do you mean by carrying

it upstream? Because we have

talked about the hardening, a J

R D and the hardening of

school. So the soft, the

emotional skills, et cetera.

Is that what you mean when you

made about how do you broach

this from an upstream

perspective? Yes, so well,

almost all of these cases where

we look at the shooter and that

it is true with the Texas

shooter as well. You see lots

of in advance of the act.

That gives you warning signals

that something bad is about

to happen.

>> And do we have systems in

place where that can be

reported and then acted on.

And there's a clear a set of

accountability or follow up for

those sorts of actions.

Kentucky has a system that's

designed to do that. The stop

tip it needs a lot more

attention. It needs more

resources. It needs to be

better known. But following

Columbine again in Colorado,

one of the things that was put

in place, there was a system

called safe to tell that we are

well resourced and people knew

about it. And it was a way that

you could a questionable

behavior and went to a

dispatcher and the dispatcher

then investigated it and then

sent a copy to the school

superintendent or their

designee in law enforcement.

You had to follow up unresolved

that show that you've taken

some action that was stored and

logged as well. All of these

are steps we can take to get

upstream as well as providing a

stronger mental supports.

We talk about having 250

counselors for student has a

goal ratio. We're a long way

from that. And again, if the

legislature in the state has

that as a priority, we have to

provide the resources and the

personnel to actually make that

happen.

>> And that was a part of the

original SB One from 2019 that

made that ratio. Of course,

it was. That was a negotiated

number. But we're still nowhere

close to matching matter.

Some districts doing better

than others.

>> Well, you you put schools in

the position of making these

really wicked Do you want 35

kindergartners in the classroom

or do you want to add another

counselor or do you want to

have a an intervention? That's

because you know, your students

are behind because of COVID.

These are the kinds of wicked

choices that schools have to

make on a regular basis.

And so I think appropriating

the resource to allow for us to

have both the proactive in the

case of of an active shooter.

Have the resources available in

the school so that we can

respond proactively and in that

I'm a terrible us a situation

that they are there.

>> Of the 525 million dollars

at the Kentucky General

Assembly appropriated to local

school districts. I I think

primarily for teacher raises.

Do you think this becomes a

part of how that money is doled

out?

>> I think going especially

in environment. We've got to

look more at not only the

hardening of schools, as you

say, but even more emphasis on

the upstream. How can we get to

greater mental health supports

bolstering that system of early

reporting and the intervention

so that we can get get ahead of

these things before they happen

again in the case of the Texas

shooter. And if you look at

most school and mass murderers

who have come to this point.

The signs were all there.

The signs were all there and

they were ignored or

inappropriately. And so what

can we do to make sure that

that's not happening is an

important question.

>> Well, Commissioner Jason

Glass, thank you for your

perspective and your time.

Thank you.

Our thanks to Doctor Jason

Glass. The commissioner of the

Kentucky Department of

Education for talking with us

about how Kentucky schools are

broaching. The topic and

concern of school safety coming

up here on connections in just

a second. I have a conversation

with to school safety

officials, John Akers, who runs

the Kentucky Center for School

Safety and Ben Wilcox, who is

the Kentucky school security

safety Marshall. That's coming

up.

Well, welcome, John Acres and

Mister Ben Wilcox, thank you

for being here. I'm sorry is

under such unfortunate

circumstances, but thank you

for your time. Thank you.

Very welcome. Thank you.

I do want to start by just

helping people understand what

Kentucky is doing to keep

Kentucky schools, the teachers,

the parents, the staff, the

kids safe. And Mister Akers,

I'll begin with you because

we've made legislation laws

that date back to maybe even

before the Marshall County High

School shooting. That happened

in 2018, 2019 legislation was

passed. Is that keeping

Kentucky kids and students and

teachers safe enough. I think

it's making some great strides.

We started as

>> early as 1998. After the

Heat high school shooting.

It happened in December 1997.

and the General established the

Kentucky Center for School

Safety, which an agency that's

designed to provide as much

help to our public schools as

possible in training resources

and things like that. Then

after the shooting that

occurred as Sandy Hook Senate

Bill 8 past. But the General

Assembly in 2013 that added

more legislation and more

requirements for safety issues

in our schools. And then, of

course, after the Marshall

County shooting, the school

safety resiliency accent but

want to send a bill late that

even gave us more. And that is

more walls to be able to try to

keep our schools just a little

safer than they have been in

the past.

>> And it established the state

School safety which is your

position. Tell us what you do.

>> Well, this gold school

safety resilience yet create

our position, too. Do on site

reviews and risk assessments on

every local school district in

the state of Kentucky. We have

15 compliance officers. 3 of

them are supervisors, 12 of

them, our actual compliance

officers that are located

regionally throughout the

state. Each compliance officer

has about 120 schools. A piece

and we walk in and do risk

assessments on every school

in the state of Kentucky, at

least once a year, sometimes

because we also provide

training. Our job is almost

like a health inspector, a fire

inspector, except we're going

in and making sure the mandates

that are set forth by the

school safety was a TEA Act

are being followed. We also

are there is a referee source

that if a school needs you

tuned up on safety or has

questions about it, we can

assist and then we can also

push those questions over to

this Kentucky Center for school

safety to have them assist the

school's. We also required to

come out with a report every

year. We did our first report

last year. That shows where

we're at and in the state of

Kentucky. What resources are

needed word. We need to go to

make school safer. We've been

doing this for 3 years. We're

on our 3rd risk right now.

And the biggest thing is our

compliance officers have a

phenomenal relationship with

the schools that if they have

a question, they can call

someone that can be on their

doorstep within 24 hours to a

system right?

>> With a lot of times we

talked about the 2019 school

safety and resiliency. Add to

Mister Akers. We often heard

the term hardening the schools,

but there's another. I think

another term that both of you

prefer. But what do we mean

by that?

>> Well, there are 2 camps.

What I call the hardware and

the hardware But there are some

where the hardware, right,

right? The hardware side of it

is basically or access control.

That's the term you're looking

for how we're going to make

sure that our schools are

secure as possible. Exterior

doors locked and that the front

door to be monitored

electronically and have people

come in to be sure that they

are checking in to see what

they're doing, making sure that

they are there for legitimate

reasons. And then the other

side of this equation is the

mental health side of this

issue. And there are so many

children that have issues long

before COVID even came into

play that need help. Now

schools are served as kind like

triage units. We identify some

of these issues, but we're not

trained to be able to handle

it. And so that's, you know,

therefore, we get in contact

with our mental health care

providers in our communities.

And we try to send parents to

them with their children safe.

We can't just get some of these

issues resolved.

>> So do we know that schools

are complying? Mister Wilcox

with making sure exterior doors

are locked and that those are

now mandates is not permissive

language. It's a requirement.

>> From a report last we were

in the high 90's with with a a

90 percentile of compliance.

And we also see with this year

reported even going to be

better. But the high 90's is

not good enough for school

safety. We have to be 100% all

the time. The end. That's one

of the reasons why we do on

site reviews. This isn't a

phone call that says, hey, all

your doors locked, our

compliance officers going in

and rattling each They're

checking next here. Doors.

If we get a call and complain

on the school, this is where

the doors are open will go look

and see if you will, will

combat that with not only

putting in a report, an insane

will have to be back for a

reassessment to get this fixed.

We'll come back and talk to all

your staff and explain to them

why this is so important.

We've got so many teachers that

may have not had that mindset

of why we need to lock doors.

And that's great that they've

never needed that mindset.

But we have to have that

mindset now because it's the

safety of our kids. So just

going in and having one of our

compliance officer saying it's

an extra layer security.

This is why we lock the

exterior doors were locked into

your doors and it clicks and

goes. I

see why. I'll tell you one of

our helpers, as we should say

in school safety and our kids.

Our kids know those doors need

to be a lot when Miss Gabbert

doesn't shuttered or, you miss

gathered, the door's not

closed. It supposed to be

close. Those are some of our

best to help. First when it

comes to school safety or

parents coming in and saying,

well, it was too easy for me to

get in. We need to work on

this. And that's what our

office is there to do him.

>> What lessons have you

learned just from the

information that we know so far

about you've all day? What are

you taking a close look at to

say, OK, maybe we need to tweak

some of our policy, some of our

laws to make sure that we can't

prevent to the greatest extent

possible. That incident from

happening in Kentucky.

>> I think that I've been

hearing in the news media

basically talked about exterior

doors being breached, mentor in

and interior doors being

breached. And like Ben just

mentioned, our access control

laws require those things to be

in place here in Kentucky.

So I think that we should be

pretty good there. But like Ben

said, it's not 100% and that

needs to be closer to 100% on

that.

>> What about metal detectors

in every school?

Metal detectors AR is window

dressing.

It sets a standard for

the school. They're all going

through the front doors are all

being checked. But what about

the side doors? What about the

windows? What about after

school? I was a high school

principal for years. The door

state wide open after 3 o'clock

for all activities. So if

somebody wanted to get a weapon

in there or contraband and

there they could do it.

Built partly on just coming

through the front door at 8

o'clock in the we find that

that the best tool out there is

the relationship between the

teacher and the kid that the

child really feels that the

teacher cares for them. Then

they're going to say, hey, I'm

hearing something that I don't

think sounds right. Maybe

someone's got a gun. Someone's

got a knife. Someone's got some

dope, whatever the case may be.

The teacher can look into Taken

to the administrator, take it

to their sorrow and to be

involved with that. So at

National your Bill module

asking former under Secretary

of education charge of safe and

drug-free schools. We'll tell

you the same thing that it's

the relationships that really

help prevent. Think more.

So the metal detectors or, you

know, any other kind of a door

stops that you might be having.

>> The legislature this past

time passed a law. Mister

Wilcox, the require school

resource officers in every

school. And if they're not able

to accommodate that for

financial reasons are finding

the personnel need to work with

the UN and the Center for

School Safety to come up with

a plan. Do you think that that

would such an episode where

they've all day as we learned

that perhaps there was some

hesitation there and what kind

of training our SRO is getting

to build those relationships

with kids?

>> Well, yes, the hbr House

bill 63 was just passed it that

requires a SRO for every campus

in the state of Kentucky by

August. First 2022 and less,

there's funding or personnel

issues for that school as our

office will be putting out

surveys to the schools to find

out a lot of different

information. How many sro's do

you have? How suroeste you need

what you're going to take

funding wise for that. sorrows,

are you having trouble finding

personnel? So we have some

school districts that have the

money but can't find the

personnel. And we have some

school districts don't have

the money. And so we really

need to really nail down what's

going on the state to get to

that point coming from SRO

background. I was SRO starting

in 1999. After Columbine the

state of Kentucky is

implemented 120 hours where the

certification sro's. That's

3 weeks for that rain over a

three-year period of time.

The training is absolutely

phenomenal. I can't find

another state that has that

much for certification and it

works its way in from mental

health for our officers working

with the, you know, special

needs kids working with all

different types of mental

health procedures. And if you

ask yes, or what do I need to

be trained? Almost it's had a

deal with mental health with

special needs. That's where

they want their training and it

works its way into what I call

the tip of the spear training,

where you're actually learning

about rapid deployment. You're

working with rap diploma,

active shooter training because

most rose are your resource for

the kids, their friends, those

kids. But if someone comes in

that school, they've got to

beat the tip of the spear to

protect those So it's

absolutely amazing what we've

got going in state of Kentucky

when it comes as our train.

I'm very proud to be part of

that

>> program. And as you know,

that was quite controversial.

The conversations around that

particularly in communities

where there is some schism

between the law enforcement

community and the kids who are

being served by law What do you

say to that?

>> Well, again, going back to

be an SRO when you're working

with those kids, those kids

are your baby's nose. When you

take care of, there were a lot

of kids. I think John even

brought this up. A lot of kids

that didn't have a relationship

with their teachers or

principles or people like that.

But they had a relationship

with me is SRO a lot of times

because I understood where they

came from. I worked a row to

and I'd be in these kids houses

and they come talk to me.

Well, you know what happened

last night? You know, this and

they had a special relationship

just I was a law enforcement

officer. And if you want to

work with the community and

heal the community, when you

have issues like this, you put

SRO an elementary school and

those kids see what they're

there for what they're really

there for. And that's to

protect them.

>> One of the things that we

constantly hear is that in many

of these cases, if not most

of these cases of a school

shooting that the school

shooter had leak some

information that on the other

side, hindsight is 2020 that

clued people and that this was

coming. So what is the lesson

we need to learn? Mister Acres

from that?

>> Well, the lessons we've

learned is that we need to

approach school shooting as a

community issue. Number one,

we receive issues that are out

in the community when the

coming through the front doors

of the school. So after

shooting is going on in the

community, there's possibly

going to be shooting. That's

going to happen in a school

drugs outside drugs inside.

You get the idea what I'm

saying So if you this is a

golden opportunity for the

communities to really bond

together and talking to

parents. I'm talking the faith

community. I'm talking the

private sector, people, the

businesses, whatever, and come

up with a way to publicize how

they can get information to us.

We have a statewide tip line is

called a stop. Tip line is in

partnership with the Kentucky

Office of Homeland Security

and Kentucky Center for School

Safety. It runs 24 7. You can

text messaging can cure COVID.

You email or you can make a

phone call and there's somebody

there. 24 7 and will receive

the call. So if something's

being lake down, here's an

obvious way to do this. Now

we run into a public relations

issue with this with this

concerns. Not enough. People

know that number. And so we're

thinking about possibly having

a major campaign with community

folks saying, OK, let's get

these numbers out, maybe and

restaurants with these little

messages that you have on your

tables. Maybe a poster

Kroger's, maybe something over

watering something over here at

the Civic Center. Whatever the

case may be saturate the market

with that tip line, that would

be one possible piece to the

puzzle of getting that

information to us. But we need

to have people to step forward

and let us know what you're

hearing and especially social

media. Excuse me. I mean, this

is by which a lot of the

communication is.

>> Is is learned and

transmitted. And so if you see

something, say something,

Mister Wilcox, right? And

there's nothing that's 2

smaller in consequential.

And it doesn't mean that you're

indicting someone. You're just

alerting authorities that, hey,

you might want to keep our eyes

on this. Is that the correct

way to look at the absolutely.

And you know, we saw it

whenever we have a tragedy like

this. We see an uptick of that.

>> You know, when I when I

start as right after Columbine,

we've got a lot of information

from the community. We've got

information from parents.

We've got information of what I

feel like, you know, this

students acting this way or

that way. And then it suddenly

Wayne's off, you know, and that

same thing happen with more.

So we were very, very focused

on school safety. And then it

starts to wane off. And this

is one of the things and this

is why it's so important.

Our offices in the school's

yearly or more. It's a constant

reminder that this has to be

done. This has to get out.

So yeah, I could agree

completely with you on that.

But I if I could have listened

to that. I get the messages

that are sent to the home

office, Homeland Security.

So I get to see what's been

coming in. I'll say probably

60% of those deal with mental

health issues. Kids considering

suicide kids who are friends of

friends that are cutting one

things like this, that it's

something

>> we really need to reach out

and get to these kids Would you

call when a police officer goes

into a House wellness check.

We're at the wellness And to be

sure that these kids are OK,

cause a lot of the kids.

I'm not being supervised in

their And so we need to be able

to have somebody to come out

there and say, are you OK?

but so it's just not about

school shooters. It's about

mental health issues as well.

Yeah.

>> And everybody keeping our

eyes being vigilant. If you see

something or hear something,

say something right.

>> If I could, there is just so

much about relationship that

there's anything to be taken

from its relationships,

relationship with the community

relationship with law

enforcement. You know, we have

a program here. The state of

Kentucky called handle with

care and we're one the only

states in the country that is

statewide. And that's a system

set up. So an officer goes into

a home saying on Tuesday night

and there's been some type of

traumatic event with a student.

They can relays the information

to the schools, the e-mail and

all it is is to say handle with

care for this child. And I have

a wife. It's a counselor at

elementary school. They get a

heads up the next day that a

child's come in that may have

had some trauma. That's where

you start. And you know, that

doesn't say anything about what

happened. But, you know, when

my wife or someone else goes in

to start to get him some love,

that's when it all comes out.

And if we can help people that

way, that summer started so

simple. So simplistic that just

having those relationships is

phenomenal.

>> Do you think they'll be an

ask a final question that you

will present to the General

Assembly when they reconvene

in 2023 as a result of what

we've seen and you've all day

and God forbid there be another

incident at the beginning of

the school year. This fall.

>> Well, we'll look at lessons

learned number one and see if

we have any areas that we need

to tweak. But I been and I

share the same thought that we

want people to move from.

Just been compliant to the law

to having that commitment.

To these laws into these

regulations into these before

to be a way of life, so to

speak in the schools where they

have to think twice about, you

know, what we're doing with

situational awareness where

we're worried about who's going

to come in through the front

door. We know it's going to

be checked. We know the

exterior doors going to be

locked. So if we can move from,

they just compliance Checkoff

list from his shop to all of

our educators saying this is

the way life is going to be in

our school forever, I think

will be a lot better down the

road.

>> Then within what we've seen

in 3 years of doing this is

that you have a lot of school

systems that they took it to

heart immediately. And we going

to do our compliance checks.

It's very, very easy because

it's a way of life. Like you

said, it's a commitment and

we're getting to that point.

We've done it only for 3 years.

Sounds like a long time.

It's really not especially

throw in a pandemic in the

middle But we're getting to

that point where people are

used to getting checked in.

We have a lot of pushback from

people. Why can't I come into

my school or was this person

check-in, mayor? I know that

person. Why let them in and it

now that it's coming to pass.

And of course, now we have this

issue that's just come up where

people are saying we know why

we do this now and it needs

to be this way.

>> Well, thank you for that.

And thank you for all the work

that you do to help keep

Kentucky school safe or safer.

We appreciate it. Thank you.

We thank you for joining us

for this conversation on

connections today. You can keep

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