♪ ♪
♪ ♪
>> Renee: AUTHOR JACINDA
TOWNSEND HAS EARNED CRITICAL
ACCLAIM FOR HER DEBUT NOVEL
SAINT MONKEY, A COMING OF AGE
NOVEL SET IN 1950s EASTERN
KENTUCKY.
I'LL TALK WITH THE BOWLING GREEN
KENTUCKY NATIVE ABOUT HER
WRITING, RURAL ROOTS AND HER
JOURNEY FROM LAWYER TO REPORTER
TO JOURNALIST AND NOVELIST NOW
ON "CONNECTIONS."
THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR
CONNECTIONS TODAY.
I'M RENEE SHAW.
SOUTH CENTRAL KENTUCKY NATIVE
JACINDA TOWNSEND'S PATH TO
LITERARY SUCCESS HAS BEEN
SOMEWHAT CURVEY.
A LOVER OF WRITING SINCE
CHILDHOOD, TOWNSEND EXPLORED
JOURNALISM AND LAW BEFORE
RETURNING TO THE CRAFT THAT HAS
GIVEN HER VOICE AND NOTORIETY IN
THE FIELD OF LITERARY FICTION.
SHE GRADUATED EARLY FROM WARREN
CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL AND ENTERED
HARVARD AT THE AGE OF 16 WHERE
SHE EARNED A POLITICAL SCIENCE
DEGREE.
SHE EARNED A LAW DEGREE FROM
DUKE.
WORKED AS A REPORTER AND A
LAWYER BUT EVENTUALLY REKINDLED
HER LOVE OF WRITING AND MADE
THAT HER VOCATION ALONG WITH
TEACHING CREATIVE WRITING AT
INDIANA UNIVERSITY.
HER DEBUT NOVEL IS SAINT MONKEY
WINNING CRITICAL ACCLAIM
NATIONWIDE.
WE WELCOME JACINDA TOWNSEND TO
CONNECTIONS.
I FEEL LIKE I KNOW YOU.
THE REASON WHY I DO IS BECAUSE I
DID A LITTLE INTEL ON YOU BEFORE
THE SHOW.
WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT YOUR
BOOK BUT I ALWAYS LOVE TALKING
TO WRITERS ABOUT THEIR
UPBRINGING, THEIR PAST AND
BECAUSE YOU REALLY DEAL SO MUCH
IN YOUR WORK ABOUT SETTINGS AND
PLACE AND THE CULTURE OF PLACE
AND SO I TALKED TO A PERSON AND
IT'S KIND OF LIKE THIS IS YOUR
LIFE.
SO I'LL LET YOU GUESS WHO THIS
CAME FROM.
A CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF YOURS.
FEMALE.
SHE TOLD ME YOU WERE SO SMART IN
SCHOOL YOU WERE SKIPPED AT LEAST
A GRADE, MAYBE TWO.
SHE COULDN'T REMEMBER.
SHE MET YOU IN THE FIFTH OR
SIXTH GRADE AND YOU CAME TO
CLASS WITH A BANDANA ON YOUR
HEAD BECAUSE I THINK YOU PUT
YOUR FINGER IN A SOCKET AND YOUR
HAIR WAS FRIED.
YOU CAN TELL ME IF THAT'S TRUE
AND THIS FRIEND ALSO WAS THE
INSPIRATION FOR A CHILDREN'S
BOOK YOU WROTE, AND SHE COULD
HAVE HELPED INSPIRE SOME OF THE
DIALOGUE IN SAINT MONKEYS.
>> THAT'S FRANCIS.
>> Renee: FRANCIS GRAHAM.
SHE WOULD NEVER LET ME PUT HER
PICTURE ON CAMERA.
I'VE KNOWN HER FOR A DECADE BUT
THIS IS HER ONE SHOUT OUT.
>> I LOVE FRANCIS.
>> Renee: YOU KEEP IN TOUCH WITH
HER ALL THIS TIME.
>> I HAVE KNOWN HER.
WE WERE A LOT LIKE THESE GIRLS
WE WERE FRIENDS FROM FIFTH GRADE
THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE
AND, YEAH, SHE IS THE
INSPIRATION FOR A LOT OF THIS
DIALOGUE.
SO, YES.
YES.
>> Renee: I WON'T ASK HER IF SHE
IS AUDREY OR CAROLINE.
>> I'M NOT SURE.
>> Renee: I'M NOT SURE EITHER.
WE'LL TELL YOU WHO AUDREY AND
CAROLINE ARE.
IF YOU HAVE NOT READ SAINT
MONKEY, HAVE YOU TO.
IT IS A GREAT MOFL.
DID SHE GET EVERYTHING RIGHT IN
HER REMEMBRANCE ABOUT YOU BEING
SO SMART THAT YOU WERE ADVANCED
TWO GRADES.
WE KNOW THAT YOU ENTERED HARVARD
AT 16 SO THAT EXPLAINS SOME OF
THAT.
>> I SKIP TWO GRADES.
YES, I DID.
WTION WAS I SMART OR DID THEY
WANT TO GET RID OF ME?
PROBABLY THE LATTER.
>> Renee: COMBINATION OF BOTH,
LET'S JUST SAY THAT.
WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT
BOWLING GREEN AND WE OFTEN HEAR
WHEN THEY DESCRIBE YOU THEY SAY
SOUTH CENTRAL KENTUCKY BECAUSE
PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW WHERE
BOWLING GREEN IS BUT THAT WHOLE
AREA THERE HAS REALLY GROWN JUST
AS KENTUCKY HAS AND CHANGED AND
YOU COME BACK FREQUENTLY ENOUGH.
HOW HAVE YOU SEEN THAT AREA
EVOLVE INTO MORE OF A MINI
METROPOLITAN AREA?
>> THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
SO WHEN I WAS LITTLE BECAUSE MY
FAMILY IS FROM THERE GENERATIONS
AND I REALLY GREW UP THERE FROM
THE TIME I WAS TWO UNTIL THE
TIME I LEFT.
WHEN I WAS LITTLE, IT WAS,
SCOTTS FIELD ROAD WAS A BIG
FIELD AND WOULD I LAY OUT IN THE
FIELD AND WATCH PLANES.
THERE WAS NO TRAFFIC.
THERE WAS NO GYM, NO MALL AND
ALSO ALONG WITH THAT WAS THIS
SORT OF VERY SMALL TOWN THING
THAT COULD BE NICE AT TIMES.
EVERYONE KNEW EVERYBODY AND NOT
ONLY DID THEY KNOW EVERYBODY BUT
EVERYBODY KNEW EVERYBODY'S
GRANDMOTHER AND EVERYBODY KNEW
EVERYBODY'S MOTHER.
>> Renee: YOU COULDN'T GET IN
TROUBLE WITHOUT...
>> YOU COULDN'T GET IN TROUBLE
EVER.
SO I ALWAYS TOLD MY DAUGHTER I
HAD TO BE MUCH SNEAKIER THAN
YOU.
YOU KNOW?
BUT NOW WHEN I GO BACK I'M JUST
ASTOUNDED.
I REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, IN THE
80s WHEN YOU WOULD FIRST START
SEEING IN WAL-MART PEOPLE WHO
LOOKED A LITTLE DIFFERENT,
RIGHT.
PEOPLE WHO HAD COME FROM OTHER
COUNTRIES, PEOPLE WHO WERE MAYBE
MUSLIM OR WHATEVER AND NOW, OF
COURSE, IT HAS GROWN TO BE SO
BIG.
I GO TO WAL-MART AND I DON'T
KNOW ANYBODY.
BUT.
>> Renee: BUT THEY ALL KNOW YOU
BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THE
DISTINGUISHED ALUMNI HALL OF
FAME WHERE YOU GRADUATED SO
THEY'RE VERY PROUD OF YOU AND
THE BOOK SAINT MONKEY, THE
SETTING IS MOUNT STERLING
KENTUCKY AND THEY'RE VERY PROUD
TO BE PART OF THIS FICTIONAL
SETTING SO A LOT OF FOLKS ARE
REALLY ROOTING FOR YOU AND VERY
PROUD OF YOUR SUCCESS.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Renee: DID YOU EVER SEE THAT
COMING?
>> NO.
NO.
NEVER.
>> Renee: NEVER?
>> I HAD ALWAYS... I WOULDN'T
SAY I ALWAYS THOUGHT I WOULD BE
A WRITER BUT I ALWAYS DID WRITE
STORIES.
I WROTE SCREEN PLAYS WHEN I WAS
LITTLE, YOU KNOW, AND I KIND OF
GOT AWAY FROM THAT AS A TEEN
THOUGH AND THEN...
>> Renee: WHY IS THAT?
>> I THINK, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE
TELL YOUNG PEOPLE THAT THEY
CANNOT HAVE A SUSTAINABLE LIFE
IN THE ARTS, YOU KNOW, AND I
CERTAINLY WAS TOLD THAT OVER AND
OVER AGAIN THAT EVERY TIME I
WOULD SAY THEN I'LL GO TO LAW
SCHOOL.
PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT WAS A GREAT
IDEA.
>> Renee: SURE.
>> SO THAT'S WHAT I ENDED UP
DOING.
IT WASN'T UNTIL MUCH LATER THAT
I LEARNED FROM PEOPLE ALL AROUND
ME THAT, YES, YOU CAN HAVE A
SUSTAINABLE LIFE IN THE ARTS AND
YOU DON'T HAVE TO STARVE AND YOU
DON'T HAVE TO BE BEYONCE.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN
BETWEEN.
>> Renee: A LOT OF THINGS IN
BETWEEN.
AND YOUR MOTHER WAS A HIGH
SCHOOL ENGLISH TEACHER, RIGHT?
>> YES.
>> Renee: SO I'M SURE SHE HAD A
LIBRARY OF BOOKS FOR YOU AND
YOUR SISTER.
>> YES, AND SHE WOULD ALWAYS,
WHEN I WAS LITTLE, HAVE A... WE
HAD CONTACT PAPER AND WE WOULD
PUT THE PAPER IN AND STAPLE IT
AND MAKE LITTLE BOOKS AND
ILLUSTRATE IT OURSELVES.
>> Renee: WHO KNEW WOULD YOU
HAVE IT HARD BOUND A FEW DECADES
LATER.
>> MY FATHER WORKED AT GENERAL
ELECTRIC IN LOUISVILLE.
>> Renee: HE WOULD COMMUTE.
>> HE DID.
TWO HOURS SO I CAN'T BELIEVE IT
NOW.
BUT HE DID.
>> Renee: SO I IMAGINE THAT THE
EXPECTATIONS IN THE HOUSE WERE
PRETTY HIGH FOR YOU AND YOUR
SISTER.
YOUR SISTER ALSO WENT TO AN IVY
LEAGUE SCHOOL.
>> SHE WENT TO STANFORD.
>> Renee: AND WORKS FOR ANIMAL
RIGHTS GROUPS.
>> SHE DOES.
>> Renee: YOU ALL TOOK MORE
CREATIVE HUMANITARIAN PATHS.
>> YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS
SOMETHING THAT WAS ALWAYS KIND
OF STRESSED IN OUR HOUSE, TOO,
WAS THAT WE NEEDED TO GIVE BACK
TO THE WORLD, SO I HOPE WE ARE
BOTH DOING THAT.
I I KNOW SHE IS.
I HOPE I AM.
>> Renee: YOU ARE DOING THAT.
WHEN YOU WENT TO HARVARD, YOU
WENT THERE AT 16 AND WHEN I WAS
DOING SOME RESEARCH ABOUT YOU, I
RAN ACROSS AN ARTICLE THAT "THE
WASHINGTON POST" RECENTLY WROTE
ABOUT AN INCIDENT AT HARVARD
RELATING TO THE CONFEDERATE
FLAG.
NOW YOUR FRIEND FRANCIS HAS SAID
I REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT SHE
WAS GOING TO BE ON ONE OF THOSE
MORNING TALK SHOWS ON SUNDAY
MORNING BUT THEN THE PRESIDENT,
WHO WAS RONALD REAGAN AT THE
TIME WAS SHOT, AND THAT
INTERRUPTED THE STORY THAT THEY
WERE GOING TO DO ABOUT WHAT
HAPPENED AT HARVARD AT THE TIME.
SHE REMEMBERED.
BUT TO GET BACK TO CIRCA 2015,
"THE WASHINGTON POST" ARTICLE
WAS HEADLINED.
THIS WAS JULY, WHEN THE
CONFEDERATE FLAG FLEW AT HARVARD
AND IT RAN SHORTLY AFTER THE
SHOOTING AT THE CHARLESTON NINE
BUT IT DETAILS WHEN A STUDENT
HUNG A CONFEDERATE FLAG OUTSIDE
OF HER DORM ROOM IN 1991 AND
THEN IT SAYS AND WHEN A JACINDA
TOWNSEND RESPONDED.
THEN THAT REALLY IGNITED A
CONTROVERSY.
SO TELL US ABOUT THAT INCIDENT
AND WHAT YOUR RESPONSE WAS.
>> SURE.
SO SHE HAD HUNG THIS CONFEDERATE
FLAG AND SHE WAS CLAIMING THAT
IT WAS NOT ABOUT RACISM, THAT IT
WAS ABOUT HER SOUTHERN HERITAGE
AND PRIDE, AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW,
IT WAS REALLY HURTFUL TO A LOT
OF PEOPLE THAT THIS WAS HANGING
IN A PLACE THAT MADE US FEEL A
LITTLE BIT UNSAFE FRANKLY.
AND AS I HAD SAID AT THE TIME I
ASSOCIATE THAT WITH CLAN RALLIES
AND I DON'T WANT TO WALK BY AND
SEE THAT EVERY DAY AND I SPRAY
PAINTED A SWAS CA AND PAINTED
RACISM.
IT FORCED A MUCH BIGGER DIALOGUE
BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT
EQUATE THE TWO AND THAT WAS
TAKEN MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY BY THE
COLLEGE ADMINISTRATION.
>> Renee: YOUR ACTION WITH THE
SWASTIKA WAS TAKEN MORE
SERIOUSLY THAN THE CONFEDERATE
FLAG.
>> AND I WAS ENCOURAGED TO TAKE
IT DOWN AND I KIND OF HELD FAST
FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
FINALLY IT BEGAN SO DIVISIVE
THAT I FELT LIKE I HAD MADE MY
POINT.
>> Renee: HAD YOU NOT DONE IT IT
MAYBE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE
UNIVERSITY CONFRONT THESE
SYMBOLS AND WHAT IT MEANS TO A
MINORITY POPULATION ON CAMPUS
PAYING THE SAME MONEY TO GO
THERE AS THE ONE HANGING THE
CONFEDERATE FLAG.
GIVEN THE YEAR THAT 2015 HAS
BEEN SO FAR WITH NOT JUST THE
CONFEDERATE FLAG TAKEN DOWN OFF
THE CAPITOL GROUNDS BUT THE
DEBATE ACROSS THE NATION, WE ARE
HAVING IN KENTUCKY WE ARE HAVING
IT ABOUT THE JEFFERSON DAVIS
STATUE INSIDE THE ROW TUNDA AND
IT WILL REMAIN.
WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THE
CONFEDERATE FLAG AND WHAT IT
STANDS FOR AND STILL WHAT IT
SYMBOLIZES TO AFRICAN AMERICANS
AND THOSE OF AFRICAN DESCENT.
>> I'M LESS CONFLICTED THAN I
WAS THEN.
I'VE LIVED A LOT OF PLACES WHERE
PEOPLE WOULD NEVER HANG THAT,
WHERE PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE
TO OTHERS FEELINGS AND, YOU
KNOW, I FEEL NOW AS AN ADULT
EVEN MORE STRONGLY THAT WHEN
SOMEONE TELLS YOU THAT AN ACTION
HURTS THEM FOR YOU TO THEN SAY
BUT IS A LITTLE STRANGE.
>> Renee: IF YOU ARE JUST
JOINING US, WE ARE HAVING A
DELIGHTFUL CONVERSATION WITH
JACINDA TOWNSEND AUTHOR OF AIN'T
MONKEY YOU CAN GET AT ANY
BOOKSTORE NEAR YOU.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE OTHER
PARTS OF YOUR LIFE BEFORE YOU
BECAME A NOVELIST.
AS I SAID, YOU WANT TO HARVARD.
YOU GOT A POLITICAL SCIENCE
DEGREE, A LAW DEGREE FROM DUKE.
YOU WORKED AS A REPORTER.
YOU WORKED AS A LAWYER.
SO DID JOURNALISM SIDE OF YOU,
DID THAT NOT ALLOW TO YOU
EXERCISE MAYBE THIS MORE
CREATIVE SIDE THAT YOU ARE ABLE
TO EXPLORE NOW BECAUSE LIFE CAN
BE STRANGER THAN FICTION.
>> YES, AND I THINK IN SOME WAYS
I WAS A TERRIBLE JOURNALIST
BECAUSE OF THAT.
I WOULD CALL PEOPLE AND BE
INTERVIEWING THEM FOR MY STORY
AND MY MIND WOULD GO TO ALL
THESE OTHER PLACES, YOU KNOW,
LIKE BUT WHAT DID YOUR MOTHER
THINK ABOUT THAT.
>> Renee: MAYBE NOT ANYWHERE
RELATED TO THE STORY, RIGHT?
>> EXACTLY.
WHAT I WROTE ON TV, YOU KNOW ON
TV IT HAS TO BE SHORT AND SWEET
AND COULD I NEVER QUITE REALLY
DO THAT.
AND IT'S FUNNY.
SO WHEN I WENT AND GOT MY
M.F.A., THAT'S ALL ABOUT WRITING
SHORT STORIES AND I WOULD WRITE
A 20 PAGE STORY AND PEOPLE WOULD
BE LIKE...
>> Renee: THAT'S NOT A SHORT
STORY.
>> THIS IS LIKE A 300 PAGE
PIECE, YOU KNOW.
>> Renee: MFA, MASTERS IN FINE
ARTS FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT KNOW.
WHEN YOU DABLED AT THAT IN DUKE,
YOU TOOK A CREATIVE WRITING
CLASS AND THAT SPARKED THE LOVE
YOU HAD AS A CHILD AND THAT SET
YOU ON YOUR COURSE, RIGHT?
>> YES.
>> Renee: YOU KNEW HAD YOU TO
RETURN.
>> I DID.
>> Renee: IOWA WORK WRITERS
WORKSHOP, THAT IS NOT FOR A
SLOP.
THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST
INCREDIBLE CREATIVE WRITING
PROGRAMS IN THE NATION.
SO FOR TO YOU GET THERE AND DO
AS WELL AS YOU DID I'M SURE YOU
LEARNED A LOT FROM THE ROOKIE
THAT YOU WERE WHEN YOU GOT
THERE.
>> I WAS A BABY WHEN I GOT
THERE.
>> Renee: HOW OLD WERE YOU THEN?
>> I WAS PRETTY OLD BECAUSE I
HAD... NOT PRETTY OLD.
>> Renee: RELATIVELY FROM THE
16, YEAH, AT HARVARD.
>> I WAS 27 WHEN I WENT THERE.
SO I HAD LIVED IN NEW YORK FOR A
WHILE.
I WAS OUT OF LAW SCHOOL BY THEN.
I HAD...
>> Renee: WERE YOU PRACTICING
LAW?
>> I WAS.
I WAS PRACTICING LAW WHEN I GOT
THE LETTER FROM IOWA AND I
THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD... IF
I STAYED AND DID THIS FOR
ANOTHER COUPLE OF YEARS,
FINANCIALLY I WOULD BE SITTING
PRETTY BUT I JUST COULDN'T.
I REALLY NEEDED TO GO DO THIS.
I'M SO GLAD I DID.
HAVE I NO REGRETS WHATSOEVER.
I WAS A BABY WHEN I GOT THERE.
I HAD TEACHERS THAT WERE AMAZING
ON EVERY LEVEL FROM WRITING TO
THE BIG PICTURE OF THE STORY.
IOWA CITY IS ONE OF THESE PLACE
WHERE PEOPLE REALLY CARE ABOUT
WORDS.
THERE ARE LOTS OF READERS AND
WRITERS COMING IN.
IT WAS AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE.
>> Renee: NOW THAT YOU ARE IN
THE TEACHER'S ROLE, I'VE READ
ONE THING I HEARD YOU SAY, DON'T
WRITE LIKE ME.
WRITE LIKE YOURSELF.
IT'S HARD FOR AWFUL US BECAUSE
WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO WE ADMIRE.
I ADMIRE YOUR WRITING, THE VIVID
INSTRUCTION YOU GIVE, THE DICKS,
THE WAY IT FLOWS, THE IF I COULD
WRITE LIKE THAT BUT HOW DO YOU
NOT TRANSLATE TO LET ME COPY
THAT.
THAT'S PRETTY HARD TO LEARN TO
DO, TO FIND YOUR OWN VOICE.
>> YES.
MY STUDENTS ARE NERVOUS ABOUT
THEIR EXPERIMENTAL URGES.
I SAY GO FOR IT AND I WORK
WITHIN THEIR FRAMEWORK AND SAY
WELL, I THINK FOR WHAT YOU ARE
DOING THIS IS MAYBE NOT WORKING
SO WELL.
>> Renee: IS THERE ANY WRONG WAY
TO WRITE?
>> I ALWAYS SAY I CAN'T TELL YOU
WHAT TO DO.
I CAN TELL YOU WHAT IS NOT
WORKING THAT YOU ARE DOING.
>> Renee: RIGHT, SURE.
FOR YOU, WHAT GOES INTO MAKING
THE NEXT GREAT NOVEL?
WHAT IS EITHER THE PROCESS, THE
INGREDIENTS.
HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU FINISH
SAINT MONKEY, HOW DID YOU KNOW
OKAY, THIS IS PRETTY GOOD.
THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD SAY IN
BOWLING GREEN DAG GONE GOOD.
>> I WAS AFRAID AT THE END.
I THINK THOUGH THERE IS A POINT
AND THAT'S SUCH A GREAT
QUESTION.
THERE WAS A POINT FOR ME THAT
HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH
TECHNIQUE AND HAS TO DO WITH
THIS BENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THE
WORLD.
AND I DON'T HAVE IT EVERY DAY, I
REALLY DON'T BUT SOME DAYS I'M
REALLY IN THERE WITH IT AND
THOSE ARE THE DAYS I TRY TO WORK
AND CREATE AND THEN ON THE OTHER
DAYS I MAYBE EDIT, YOU KNOW.
BUT I'M WORKING ON A NOVEL NOW
AND I HAVE A PLOT BUT I'M STILL
AT THE POINT WHERE I THINK THE
PLOT IS LAME.
>> Renee: INTERNATIONAL
ADOPTION?
>> THAT'S THE ONE I FINISHED.
THIS IS ONE WHERE THIS WOMAN HAS
A RUNNING CRAIG'S LIST AD AND
SHE BUYS BOOKS AND SHE MEETS ALL
THESE PEOPLE.
SO IT'S ABOUT THAT.
>> Renee: THAT DOESN'T SOUND
BAD.
>> WELL THANK YOU.
>> Renee: I'D READ THAT.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Renee: BEFORE SAINT MONKEY
THERE WAS A MANUSCRIPT THAT
DIDN'T QUITE FLY AND YOU TALKED
ABOUT THIS THAT THAT WORK WAS
DEEMED TOO GRIP.
YOU SAID THE WORDS IT DIDN'T
HAVE ENOUGH AIR.
THAT WAS AN INTERESTING TURN OF
A PHRASE.
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU'VE
GIVEN AIR TO A WORK AND THAT
IT'S NOT SO GRIM AND HEAVY THAT
IT BOGS THE READER DOWN TOO
MUCH?
>> RIGHT.
I TELL MY STUDENTS THIS IS A
TRUE STORY.
THERE WAS A BRIDE WHO HAD A SIX
FOOT CAKE.
SO SHE GOT UP ON THIS LADDER TO
CUT THE CAKE AND THE CAKE FELL
OVER BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE
ENOUGH AIR FOR WHAT IT WAS, YOU
KNOW.
AND I THINK NOVELS, ESPECIALLY
NOVELS ARE SO SIMILAR BECAUSE
THEY'RE SO, SO WHEN YOU PUT AIR
IN, YOU PUT A CHARACTER SORT OF
FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THE WORLD
OR YOU PUT THEIR SENSE OF HUMOR
OR YOU PUT SOME PLOT THAT IS
JUST A LITTLE MORE AVAILABLE FOR
SORT OF LIGHT HEARTEDNESS
BECAUSE IT CAN'T BE ALL
STRUGGLE.
IT CAN'T BE ALL PAIN.
I THINK A LOT OF YOUNGER WRITERS
PARTICULARLY THINK THAT'S WHAT
IT MEANS TO BE A SERIOUS WRITER
IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE
CANCER FOR 20 YEARS OR, YOU
KNOW, DIE IN CAR WRECKS AND NOT
AT ALL.
>> Renee: BECAUSE THIS BOOK DOES
HAVE SOME VERY COMPLEX ISSUES
AND HEAVYWEIGHTY ISSUES.
SEGREGATION, SEXISM, POVERTY,
ALL OF THAT IS CONFRONTED BUT
THERE ARE SOME VERY LIGHT
MOMENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, TERN
YOUR FROWN UPSIDE DOWN.
THAT'S PROBABLY VERY APPEALING
TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, AS YOU SAY,
GIVING IT AIR.
SO YOU LEARNED FROM THAT
FIRST...
>> I DID.
AND I'LL TELL YOU, THERE IS A
SCENE IN HERE, THIS ISN'T TOO
MUCH OF A SPOILER ALERT BUT
THERE IS A SCENE IN HERE THAT I
LAUGHED EVERY SINGLE TIME I
REVISED IT.
I LAUGHED MORE AND MORE AND
THAT'S WHEN SHE BRINGS HER
HUSBAND HOME.
SO I LAUGH PRETTY HARD.
>> Renee: AND WHERE DO HAVE YOU
TO GO TO GO FROM HEAVY TO LIGHT
AND TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE
MAKING A TRANSITION THAT MAKES
SENSE?
>> USUALLY ITS IN DIALOGUE WHERE
THE LIGHT HEARTEDNESS COMES FROM
AND THE HUMOR.
I THINK, I MEAN IN REAL LIFE A
LOT OF... DURING A LOT OF SORT
OF NORMAL CONVERSATION PEOPLE
SAY THINGS THAT ARE JUST
HILARIOUS.
>> Renee: AND IN HERE BECAUSE
YOU TALK ABOUT SHORT STORIES AND
THEY'RE SHORTER THAN THE 20
PAGES AS SHE SAID BEFORE THAT
WRITING IN SHORT CHAPTERS REALLY
HELPS BECAUSE THEY COULD BE
TAKEN JUST AS A SHORT STORY ON
THEIR OWN, MANY OF THESE.
WOULD THAT BE ADVICE THAT WOULD
YOU GIVE TO YOUNG WRITERS IS,
YOU NO, GO SHORTER?
I ALSO REMEMBER SEEING YOU TALK
ABOUT YOU WOULD WRITE A PAGE,
TAKE THAT OUT, EDIT THE PAGE AND
THEN KEEP GOING.
AND HOW EITHER PRODUCTIVE OR
UNPRODUCTIVE WAS THAT PROCESS
FOR YOU?
>> SO A LOT OF THE CHAPTER
LENGTH HAS TO DO WITH PROCESS.
WHEN I BEFORE, PROBABLY ABOUT 15
YEARS AGO WHEN I JUST GOT OUT OF
GRADUATE SCHOOL I WAS STILL
DOING THIS THING.
I WOULD PRINT OUT WHAT I HAD
WRITTEN TWO OR THREE PAGES AND
THEN GO BACK AND REVISE IT AND
DO IT AGAIN AND GO BACK AND DO
IT AGAIN AND REVISE IT AND THEN
I DID A FULBRIGHT IN AFRICA AND
ONE OF THE VERY FIRST THINGS
THAT HAPPENED THE VERY FIRST
WEEK I WAS THERE WAS THAT MY
PRINTER BLEW UP BECAUSE I DIDN'T
PLUG THE CONVERTER IN WITH IT.
THAT ACTUALLY FORCED ME TO STOP
DOING THAT; TO STOP REWRITING
AND REWRITING AND JUST KEEP
GOING AND IT WAS THE BEST THING
EVER BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I DO.
THAT BEING SAID, ONE OF THE
REASONS THE CHAPTERS ARE SO
SHORT IS BECAUSE IT MAKES IT SO
MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO REVISE
THEM IN ONE SITTING AND KEEP A
SCENE SORT OF SUSTAINED IN MY
HEAD.
>> Renee: SURE.
RIGHT, AND YOU HAVE TWO KIDS TO
CHASE AFTER.
THAT'S PROBABLY A BETTER
APPROACH ANYWAY.
>> YES, YES, YES.
I AM A BIG BELIEVER IN I WRITE
EVERY DAY NO MATTER WHAT.
BUT THEN THAT MEANS SOMETIMES
I'M WRITING WHILE THEY'RE IN
THEIR PIANO LESSON OR SKATING OR
WHATEVER, SO THAT ALSO HELPS MY
PROCESS THAT THESE CHAPTERS ARE
SHORT ENOUGH THAT I CAN ACTUALLY
VISIT WITH THEM DURING A
SITTING.
>> Renee: AND HOW ARE THEY
INFORMING YOUR APPROACH NOW OR
EVEN YOUR TOPICS OR WHAT YOU
THINK ABOUT IN YOUR WRITING?
>> I WRITE SO MUCH MORE NOW
ABOUT MOTHERHOOD THAN I DID
BEFORE BECAUSE IT HAS CHANGED
ME.
IT HAS CHANGED ME AS A PERSON.
CHANGED THE WAY I LOOK AT THE
WORLD, YOU KNOW, AND SO I WRITE
A LOT ABOUT THAT.
>> Renee: SO TELL US QUICKLY
ABOUT SAINT MONKEY AND WHERE THE
NAME CAME FROM EFFICIENT OF ALL
AND THE TWO MAIN CHARACTERS
AUDREY AND CAROLINE.
>> SO AUDREY IS A DREAMY YOUNG
WOMAN WHO WANTS TO BE A PIANIST
AND SHE IS A BRILLIANT PIANIST
AND CAROLINE IS THE MORE CAUSE
TICK CAWFTIC BITTER YOUNG WOMAN.
CAROLINE HAS DREAMS OF GOING TO
HOLLYWOOD BUT ARE CUT SHORT
BECAUSE A TRAGEDY HAPPENS
AND
SHE CAN'T LEAVE HER HOMETOWN AND
SHE HAS TO WATCH HER BEST FRIEND
LIVE THE DREAM AND THERE IS A
SCENE IN THE TITLE CHAPTER THAT
AWED CAROLINE'S GRANDMOTHER SAYS
SHE'S A MONKEY AND SHE SAID NO,
SHE'S A SAINT.
THE WAYS WE SEE PEOPLE AND THE
WAY THAT WE LOVE PEOPLE DESPITE
WHAT IS MONKEYISH ABOUT THEM,
DESPITE THEIR SHORTCOMINGS, THE
WAY WE KIND OF FORGIVE THAT AND
LEARN TO LOVE THEM ANYWAY.
>> Renee: AND AS I MENTIONED,
YOUR USE OF THE DICTION AND
VERNACULAR FROM THAT ERA AND
THAT TIME.
SEAMLESS IS NOT THE RIGHT WORD
BUT CLOSE TO PERFECT IN THE WAY
THAT MANY OF US GREW UP RURAL
AND MAYBE NOT IN THE 1950s,
I'M NOT THAT OLD BUT I
DEFINITELY KNOW PEOPLE WHO SPOKE
IN THOSE TONES AND VER VERNACULR
BUT GETTING THAT DOWN IS PRETTY
TOUGH TO DO.
I WOULD THINK IT WAS A
CHALLENGE.
>> MORE OF A CHALLENGE THAN I
THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BECAUSE I
HAD MY GRANDMOTHER KIND OF SPOKE
THE WAY CAROLINE SPEAKS.
SHE PASSED AWAY BEFORE I EVEN
STARTED WRITING THIS AND I HAD
THAT IN MY EAR.
I REMEMBERED IT.
BUT WRITING IT IS A DIFFERENT...
I ACTUALLY HAD A CHART, FOR
INSTANCE, I HAD A CHART ABOUT
WEREN'T AND WARRANT.
YOU USE THEM AT DIFFERENT TIMES.
I KEPT CHARTS.
>> Renee: EVEN THE WORD NARY.
WE NEVER HEAR THAT UNTIL I GO
HOME AND I MIGHT HEAR IT.
I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO READ A
BRIEF PASSAGE SO PEOPLE GET A
FLAVOR OF WHAT SAINT MONKEY IS
LIKE.
>> THIS IS FROM AUDREY'S
PERSPECTIVE.
FINALLY COMCOME APRIL THE WIND
BLOWS DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAIN AND
STARTS TO WEAR WARM AGAIN ON
PEOPLE'S BARE ARMS AND GRAND PAP
AND I SIT OUT ON THE PORCH IN
THE PUNCHED IRON CHAIRS AND PLAY
CHECKERS.
GRAND PAP IS A MASTER, A WIZARD
WHO CAN BEAT ANYONE IN THE
COUNTY AND WHEN I COME NEAR
WINNING HE UPSETS THE CHECKER
BOARD.
AFTERWARDS HE DOESN'T APOLOGIZE
OR EVEN SPEAKS.
HE STEPS OFF THE PORCH, BEND
OVER THE GRASS AND PICKS UP
THREE BLACK PIECES THAT HAVE
LANDED THERE, A CONSOLATION
SPELLING HIS ANGER.
HE SCRAPES THE REMAINING 21 OFF
THE PORCH AND THEN TO INTO HIS
CARPETED BOX WHILE I WIGGLE
MYSELF INTO MY SWING AND FINGER
A BIT OF RUST GROWING ON THE
CHAIN.
RIGHT NICE BREEZE IS SAIL IS ALL
HE SAYS.
HE PUSHES US BACK AND FORTH WITH
HIS FEET WHILE WE WATCH THE SUN
SINK LIKE A TANGERINE BEHIND THE
TREES.
>> Renee: I LOVE THAT.
LIKE A TANGERINE BEHIND THE
TREES AND THIS, ALL OF THAT, THE
IMAGERY THAT YOU EVOKE, I DON'T
KNOW, I THINK I'VE HEARD YOU
BEING COMPARED TO TONY MORRISON
A LITTLE BIT, AND I KNOW THAT'S
GOT TO BE HIGH FLATTER.
>> YES.
>> Renee: YOUR LANGUAGE LIKE
BELOVED WHICH MANY OF US HAVE
READ THAT IS INTRICATE, COMPLEX,
MAKES YOU THINK, MAKES YOU
REWEED IT A FEW TIMES.
BUT YOU GET SO INVOLVED WITH
THESE CHARACTERS THAT YOU LIVE
THROUGH THEM, PARTICULARLY IF
YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF CONNECTION
TO THAT LIFE.
>> YES.
>> Renee: IS THAT WHAT YOU HOPE
YOUR WORK ACCOMPLISHES?
EVEN OUTSIDE OF THOSE WHO, IN
KENTUCKY, HAVE LIVED HERE, THAT
THEY CAN RELATE TO SAINT MONK
NECESSITY SOME ASPECT?
>> I DID AND BECAUSE I LOVE MY
HOMELAND SO MUCH, YOU KNOW, SO
IN SOME WAYS IT IS A LOVE LETTER
TO KENTUCKIANS PARTICULARLY THIS
WAY OF LIFE THAT HAS SORT OF BAN
BEGUN TO PASS AWAY WITH THE
PEOPLE WHO ARE PASSING AWAY.
I WANTED TO CAPTURE WHAT IS SO
BEAUTIFUL ABOUT THIS LAND AND
THESE PEOPLE.
>> Renee: THESE YOUNG LADIES,
UNDERSTAND THEIR IDENTITIES AND
I WON'T GIVE IT AWAY, BUT TO
UNDERSTAND WHO THEY ARE, HOW
THEY GET TO LEARN WHO THEY ARE,
EITHER BY STAYING WHERE THEY ARE
OR GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE, THAT IS
A LIFE LESSON IN AND OF ITSELF
AND SO YOU REALLY FEEL THAT,
PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU COME TO A
CERTAIN AGE IN YOUR LIFE.
YOU THINK, I GET THAT AT A
DEEPER LEVEL THAN I WOULD HAD I
BEEN THOSE CHARACTERS AGES.
I THANK YOU FOR THAT.
THANK YOU FOR THAT SHARED
EXPERIENCE.
>> THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.
>> Renee: I HIGHLY RECOMMEND
SAINT MONKEY BY JACINDA
TOWNSEND.
YOU CAN GET IT ONLINE AT A LOCAL
BOOKSTORE NEAR YOU.
I HOPE YOU'LL SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL
BOOKSTORES.
YOU IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE
ABOUT JACINDA TOWNSEND AND HER
WORK LOG ON TO OUR WEBSITE AND
MAKE SURE YOU FOLLOW ME ON
FACEBOOK, TWITTER, INSTAGRAM AND
BLOG PROMPTER.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
WATCHING.
TAKE REALLY GOOD CARE AND WE'LL
SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.