1 00:00:05,833 --> 00:00:11,200 ♪ ♪ 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:11,866 ♪ ♪ 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,200 >> Renee: AUTHOR JACINDA 4 00:00:11,866 --> 00:00:15,400 TOWNSEND HAS EARNED CRITICAL 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,100 ACCLAIM FOR HER DEBUT NOVEL 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,333 SAINT MONKEY, A COMING OF AGE 7 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:20,700 NOVEL SET IN 1950s EASTERN 8 00:00:20,333 --> 00:00:22,566 KENTUCKY. 9 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:24,133 I'LL TALK WITH THE BOWLING GREEN 10 00:00:22,566 --> 00:00:26,733 KENTUCKY NATIVE ABOUT HER 11 00:00:24,133 --> 00:00:29,533 WRITING, RURAL ROOTS AND HER 12 00:00:26,733 --> 00:00:33,300 JOURNEY FROM LAWYER TO REPORTER 13 00:00:29,533 --> 00:00:40,366 TO JOURNALIST AND NOVELIST NOW 14 00:00:33,300 --> 00:00:41,766 ON "CONNECTIONS." 15 00:00:40,366 --> 00:00:42,733 THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR 16 00:00:41,766 --> 00:00:44,166 CONNECTIONS TODAY. 17 00:00:42,733 --> 00:00:46,400 I'M RENEE SHAW. 18 00:00:44,166 --> 00:00:47,866 SOUTH CENTRAL KENTUCKY NATIVE 19 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,366 JACINDA TOWNSEND'S PATH TO 20 00:00:47,866 --> 00:00:50,066 LITERARY SUCCESS HAS BEEN 21 00:00:49,366 --> 00:00:52,166 SOMEWHAT CURVEY. 22 00:00:50,066 --> 00:00:53,633 A LOVER OF WRITING SINCE 23 00:00:52,166 --> 00:00:54,500 CHILDHOOD, TOWNSEND EXPLORED 24 00:00:53,633 --> 00:00:55,766 JOURNALISM AND LAW BEFORE 25 00:00:54,500 --> 00:00:57,500 RETURNING TO THE CRAFT THAT HAS 26 00:00:55,766 --> 00:00:59,500 GIVEN HER VOICE AND NOTORIETY IN 27 00:00:57,500 --> 00:01:02,333 THE FIELD OF LITERARY FICTION. 28 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:03,633 SHE GRADUATED EARLY FROM WARREN 29 00:01:02,333 --> 00:01:05,533 CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL AND ENTERED 30 00:01:03,633 --> 00:01:08,133 HARVARD AT THE AGE OF 16 WHERE 31 00:01:05,533 --> 00:01:08,466 SHE EARNED A POLITICAL SCIENCE 32 00:01:08,133 --> 00:01:10,133 DEGREE. 33 00:01:08,466 --> 00:01:10,566 SHE EARNED A LAW DEGREE FROM 34 00:01:10,133 --> 00:01:12,233 DUKE. 35 00:01:10,566 --> 00:01:14,366 WORKED AS A REPORTER AND A 36 00:01:12,233 --> 00:01:16,266 LAWYER BUT EVENTUALLY REKINDLED 37 00:01:14,366 --> 00:01:18,566 HER LOVE OF WRITING AND MADE 38 00:01:16,266 --> 00:01:20,466 THAT HER VOCATION ALONG WITH 39 00:01:18,566 --> 00:01:21,766 TEACHING CREATIVE WRITING AT 40 00:01:20,466 --> 00:01:24,166 INDIANA UNIVERSITY. 41 00:01:21,766 --> 00:01:26,066 HER DEBUT NOVEL IS SAINT MONKEY 42 00:01:24,166 --> 00:01:26,666 WINNING CRITICAL ACCLAIM 43 00:01:26,066 --> 00:01:28,466 NATIONWIDE. 44 00:01:26,666 --> 00:01:28,866 WE WELCOME JACINDA TOWNSEND TO 45 00:01:28,466 --> 00:01:30,466 CONNECTIONS. 46 00:01:28,866 --> 00:01:32,366 I FEEL LIKE I KNOW YOU. 47 00:01:30,466 --> 00:01:35,466 THE REASON WHY I DO IS BECAUSE I 48 00:01:32,366 --> 00:01:36,100 DID A LITTLE INTEL ON YOU BEFORE 49 00:01:35,466 --> 00:01:37,400 THE SHOW. 50 00:01:36,100 --> 00:01:39,000 WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT YOUR 51 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,700 BOOK BUT I ALWAYS LOVE TALKING 52 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,966 TO WRITERS ABOUT THEIR 53 00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:43,266 UPBRINGING, THEIR PAST AND 54 00:01:41,966 --> 00:01:45,466 BECAUSE YOU REALLY DEAL SO MUCH 55 00:01:43,266 --> 00:01:47,400 IN YOUR WORK ABOUT SETTINGS AND 56 00:01:45,466 --> 00:01:50,000 PLACE AND THE CULTURE OF PLACE 57 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,700 AND SO I TALKED TO A PERSON AND 58 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,000 IT'S KIND OF LIKE THIS IS YOUR 59 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:54,100 LIFE. 60 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,700 SO I'LL LET YOU GUESS WHO THIS 61 00:01:54,100 --> 00:01:57,600 CAME FROM. 62 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:57,933 A CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF YOURS. 63 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,466 FEMALE. 64 00:01:57,933 --> 00:02:02,666 SHE TOLD ME YOU WERE SO SMART IN 65 00:02:00,466 --> 00:02:04,266 SCHOOL YOU WERE SKIPPED AT LEAST 66 00:02:02,666 --> 00:02:05,000 A GRADE, MAYBE TWO. 67 00:02:04,266 --> 00:02:06,800 SHE COULDN'T REMEMBER. 68 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,900 SHE MET YOU IN THE FIFTH OR 69 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,800 SIXTH GRADE AND YOU CAME TO 70 00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:11,300 CLASS WITH A BANDANA ON YOUR 71 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,600 HEAD BECAUSE I THINK YOU PUT 72 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:14,333 YOUR FINGER IN A SOCKET AND YOUR 73 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,900 HAIR WAS FRIED. 74 00:02:14,333 --> 00:02:18,100 YOU CAN TELL ME IF THAT'S TRUE 75 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:19,500 AND THIS FRIEND ALSO WAS THE 76 00:02:18,100 --> 00:02:22,200 INSPIRATION FOR A CHILDREN'S 77 00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:25,133 BOOK YOU WROTE, AND SHE COULD 78 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:28,566 HAVE HELPED INSPIRE SOME OF THE 79 00:02:25,133 --> 00:02:31,366 DIALOGUE IN SAINT MONKEYS. 80 00:02:28,566 --> 00:02:32,133 >> THAT'S FRANCIS. 81 00:02:31,366 --> 00:02:34,133 >> Renee: FRANCIS GRAHAM. 82 00:02:32,133 --> 00:02:35,566 SHE WOULD NEVER LET ME PUT HER 83 00:02:34,133 --> 00:02:38,200 PICTURE ON CAMERA. 84 00:02:35,566 --> 00:02:39,966 I'VE KNOWN HER FOR A DECADE BUT 85 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,533 THIS IS HER ONE SHOUT OUT. 86 00:02:39,966 --> 00:02:43,433 >> I LOVE FRANCIS. 87 00:02:41,533 --> 00:02:44,766 >> Renee: YOU KEEP IN TOUCH WITH 88 00:02:43,433 --> 00:02:47,000 HER ALL THIS TIME. 89 00:02:44,766 --> 00:02:48,466 >> I HAVE KNOWN HER. 90 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,300 WE WERE A LOT LIKE THESE GIRLS 91 00:02:48,466 --> 00:02:51,466 WE WERE FRIENDS FROM FIFTH GRADE 92 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:53,466 THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE 93 00:02:51,466 --> 00:02:56,800 AND, YEAH, SHE IS THE 94 00:02:53,466 --> 00:02:57,200 INSPIRATION FOR A LOT OF THIS 95 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:58,333 DIALOGUE. 96 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,000 SO, YES. 97 00:02:58,333 --> 00:03:00,666 YES. 98 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,700 >> Renee: I WON'T ASK HER IF SHE 99 00:03:00,666 --> 00:03:04,266 IS AUDREY OR CAROLINE. 100 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:06,466 >> I'M NOT SURE. 101 00:03:04,266 --> 00:03:08,466 >> Renee: I'M NOT SURE EITHER. 102 00:03:06,466 --> 00:03:08,900 WE'LL TELL YOU WHO AUDREY AND 103 00:03:08,466 --> 00:03:11,166 CAROLINE ARE. 104 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:11,733 IF YOU HAVE NOT READ SAINT 105 00:03:11,166 --> 00:03:13,066 MONKEY, HAVE YOU TO. 106 00:03:11,733 --> 00:03:14,766 IT IS A GREAT MOFL. 107 00:03:13,066 --> 00:03:16,400 DID SHE GET EVERYTHING RIGHT IN 108 00:03:14,766 --> 00:03:17,633 HER REMEMBRANCE ABOUT YOU BEING 109 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,233 SO SMART THAT YOU WERE ADVANCED 110 00:03:17,633 --> 00:03:21,100 TWO GRADES. 111 00:03:18,233 --> 00:03:23,200 WE KNOW THAT YOU ENTERED HARVARD 112 00:03:21,100 --> 00:03:23,566 AT 16 SO THAT EXPLAINS SOME OF 113 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,700 THAT. 114 00:03:23,566 --> 00:03:27,000 >> I SKIP TWO GRADES. 115 00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:28,300 YES, I DID. 116 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,100 WTION WAS I SMART OR DID THEY 117 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:31,900 WANT TO GET RID OF ME? 118 00:03:30,100 --> 00:03:32,800 PROBABLY THE LATTER. 119 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:33,933 >> Renee: COMBINATION OF BOTH, 120 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,133 LET'S JUST SAY THAT. 121 00:03:33,933 --> 00:03:37,333 WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT 122 00:03:36,133 --> 00:03:39,100 BOWLING GREEN AND WE OFTEN HEAR 123 00:03:37,333 --> 00:03:40,233 WHEN THEY DESCRIBE YOU THEY SAY 124 00:03:39,100 --> 00:03:41,833 SOUTH CENTRAL KENTUCKY BECAUSE 125 00:03:40,233 --> 00:03:43,433 PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW WHERE 126 00:03:41,833 --> 00:03:46,433 BOWLING GREEN IS BUT THAT WHOLE 127 00:03:43,433 --> 00:03:48,133 AREA THERE HAS REALLY GROWN JUST 128 00:03:46,433 --> 00:03:49,733 AS KENTUCKY HAS AND CHANGED AND 129 00:03:48,133 --> 00:03:51,133 YOU COME BACK FREQUENTLY ENOUGH. 130 00:03:49,733 --> 00:03:53,066 HOW HAVE YOU SEEN THAT AREA 131 00:03:51,133 --> 00:03:53,866 EVOLVE INTO MORE OF A MINI 132 00:03:53,066 --> 00:03:55,133 METROPOLITAN AREA? 133 00:03:53,866 --> 00:03:57,533 >> THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. 134 00:03:55,133 --> 00:04:01,300 SO WHEN I WAS LITTLE BECAUSE MY 135 00:03:57,533 --> 00:04:02,900 FAMILY IS FROM THERE GENERATIONS 136 00:04:01,300 --> 00:04:04,800 AND I REALLY GREW UP THERE FROM 137 00:04:02,900 --> 00:04:05,500 THE TIME I WAS TWO UNTIL THE 138 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,533 TIME I LEFT. 139 00:04:05,500 --> 00:04:10,866 WHEN I WAS LITTLE, IT WAS, 140 00:04:09,533 --> 00:04:12,233 SCOTTS FIELD ROAD WAS A BIG 141 00:04:10,866 --> 00:04:13,233 FIELD AND WOULD I LAY OUT IN THE 142 00:04:12,233 --> 00:04:14,333 FIELD AND WATCH PLANES. 143 00:04:13,233 --> 00:04:18,533 THERE WAS NO TRAFFIC. 144 00:04:14,333 --> 00:04:21,233 THERE WAS NO GYM, NO MALL AND 145 00:04:18,533 --> 00:04:23,766 ALSO ALONG WITH THAT WAS THIS 146 00:04:21,233 --> 00:04:26,866 SORT OF VERY SMALL TOWN THING 147 00:04:23,766 --> 00:04:28,066 THAT COULD BE NICE AT TIMES. 148 00:04:26,866 --> 00:04:30,466 EVERYONE KNEW EVERYBODY AND NOT 149 00:04:28,066 --> 00:04:31,566 ONLY DID THEY KNOW EVERYBODY BUT 150 00:04:30,466 --> 00:04:33,666 EVERYBODY KNEW EVERYBODY'S 151 00:04:31,566 --> 00:04:34,200 GRANDMOTHER AND EVERYBODY KNEW 152 00:04:33,666 --> 00:04:35,066 EVERYBODY'S MOTHER. 153 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:35,866 >> Renee: YOU COULDN'T GET IN 154 00:04:35,066 --> 00:04:38,066 TROUBLE WITHOUT... 155 00:04:35,866 --> 00:04:38,366 >> YOU COULDN'T GET IN TROUBLE 156 00:04:38,066 --> 00:04:40,466 EVER. 157 00:04:38,366 --> 00:04:43,600 SO I ALWAYS TOLD MY DAUGHTER I 158 00:04:40,466 --> 00:04:43,866 HAD TO BE MUCH SNEAKIER THAN 159 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,000 YOU. 160 00:04:43,866 --> 00:04:48,833 YOU KNOW? 161 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,200 BUT NOW WHEN I GO BACK I'M JUST 162 00:04:48,833 --> 00:04:50,700 ASTOUNDED. 163 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,200 I REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, IN THE 164 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:55,033 80s WHEN YOU WOULD FIRST START 165 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,500 SEEING IN WAL-MART PEOPLE WHO 166 00:04:55,033 --> 00:04:56,800 LOOKED A LITTLE DIFFERENT, 167 00:04:56,500 --> 00:04:58,400 RIGHT. 168 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,400 PEOPLE WHO HAD COME FROM OTHER 169 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:03,300 COUNTRIES, PEOPLE WHO WERE MAYBE 170 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,200 MUSLIM OR WHATEVER AND NOW, OF 171 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:06,500 COURSE, IT HAS GROWN TO BE SO 172 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,500 BIG. 173 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:10,400 I GO TO WAL-MART AND I DON'T 174 00:05:08,500 --> 00:05:10,700 KNOW ANYBODY. 175 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,200 BUT. 176 00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:17,000 >> Renee: BUT THEY ALL KNOW YOU 177 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:18,066 BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THE 178 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,500 DISTINGUISHED ALUMNI HALL OF 179 00:05:18,066 --> 00:05:20,733 FAME WHERE YOU GRADUATED SO 180 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:22,833 THEY'RE VERY PROUD OF YOU AND 181 00:05:20,733 --> 00:05:24,733 THE BOOK SAINT MONKEY, THE 182 00:05:22,833 --> 00:05:26,833 SETTING IS MOUNT STERLING 183 00:05:24,733 --> 00:05:28,133 KENTUCKY AND THEY'RE VERY PROUD 184 00:05:26,833 --> 00:05:29,833 TO BE PART OF THIS FICTIONAL 185 00:05:28,133 --> 00:05:31,200 SETTING SO A LOT OF FOLKS ARE 186 00:05:29,833 --> 00:05:32,166 REALLY ROOTING FOR YOU AND VERY 187 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,833 PROUD OF YOUR SUCCESS. 188 00:05:32,166 --> 00:05:34,200 >> THANK YOU. 189 00:05:32,833 --> 00:05:34,833 >> Renee: DID YOU EVER SEE THAT 190 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,733 COMING? 191 00:05:34,833 --> 00:05:37,233 >> NO. 192 00:05:36,733 --> 00:05:37,666 NO. 193 00:05:37,233 --> 00:05:38,200 NEVER. 194 00:05:37,666 --> 00:05:42,366 >> Renee: NEVER? 195 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:43,466 >> I HAD ALWAYS... I WOULDN'T 196 00:05:42,366 --> 00:05:45,766 SAY I ALWAYS THOUGHT I WOULD BE 197 00:05:43,466 --> 00:05:46,500 A WRITER BUT I ALWAYS DID WRITE 198 00:05:45,766 --> 00:05:48,433 STORIES. 199 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:52,466 I WROTE SCREEN PLAYS WHEN I WAS 200 00:05:48,433 --> 00:05:54,466 LITTLE, YOU KNOW, AND I KIND OF 201 00:05:52,466 --> 00:05:56,066 GOT AWAY FROM THAT AS A TEEN 202 00:05:54,466 --> 00:05:57,066 THOUGH AND THEN... 203 00:05:56,066 --> 00:05:59,866 >> Renee: WHY IS THAT? 204 00:05:57,066 --> 00:06:02,233 >> I THINK, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE 205 00:05:59,866 --> 00:06:03,933 TELL YOUNG PEOPLE THAT THEY 206 00:06:02,233 --> 00:06:05,933 CANNOT HAVE A SUSTAINABLE LIFE 207 00:06:03,933 --> 00:06:07,533 IN THE ARTS, YOU KNOW, AND I 208 00:06:05,933 --> 00:06:08,833 CERTAINLY WAS TOLD THAT OVER AND 209 00:06:07,533 --> 00:06:10,666 OVER AGAIN THAT EVERY TIME I 210 00:06:08,833 --> 00:06:11,333 WOULD SAY THEN I'LL GO TO LAW 211 00:06:10,666 --> 00:06:14,066 SCHOOL. 212 00:06:11,333 --> 00:06:14,566 PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT WAS A GREAT 213 00:06:14,066 --> 00:06:15,100 IDEA. 214 00:06:14,566 --> 00:06:16,266 >> Renee: SURE. 215 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:16,566 >> SO THAT'S WHAT I ENDED UP 216 00:06:16,266 --> 00:06:19,966 DOING. 217 00:06:16,566 --> 00:06:21,800 IT WASN'T UNTIL MUCH LATER THAT 218 00:06:19,966 --> 00:06:24,266 I LEARNED FROM PEOPLE ALL AROUND 219 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,266 ME THAT, YES, YOU CAN HAVE A 220 00:06:24,266 --> 00:06:26,866 SUSTAINABLE LIFE IN THE ARTS AND 221 00:06:25,266 --> 00:06:28,533 YOU DON'T HAVE TO STARVE AND YOU 222 00:06:26,866 --> 00:06:30,100 DON'T HAVE TO BE BEYONCE. 223 00:06:28,533 --> 00:06:30,433 THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN 224 00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:32,200 BETWEEN. 225 00:06:30,433 --> 00:06:32,533 >> Renee: A LOT OF THINGS IN 226 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,400 BETWEEN. 227 00:06:32,533 --> 00:06:37,800 AND YOUR MOTHER WAS A HIGH 228 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,200 SCHOOL ENGLISH TEACHER, RIGHT? 229 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,866 >> YES. 230 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,166 >> Renee: SO I'M SURE SHE HAD A 231 00:06:39,866 --> 00:06:42,266 LIBRARY OF BOOKS FOR YOU AND 232 00:06:41,166 --> 00:06:43,300 YOUR SISTER. 233 00:06:42,266 --> 00:06:45,500 >> YES, AND SHE WOULD ALWAYS, 234 00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:48,500 WHEN I WAS LITTLE, HAVE A... WE 235 00:06:45,500 --> 00:06:51,233 HAD CONTACT PAPER AND WE WOULD 236 00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:53,033 PUT THE PAPER IN AND STAPLE IT 237 00:06:51,233 --> 00:06:58,000 AND MAKE LITTLE BOOKS AND 238 00:06:53,033 --> 00:06:58,766 ILLUSTRATE IT OURSELVES. 239 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,266 >> Renee: WHO KNEW WOULD YOU 240 00:06:58,766 --> 00:07:01,566 HAVE IT HARD BOUND A FEW DECADES 241 00:07:01,266 --> 00:07:03,000 LATER. 242 00:07:01,566 --> 00:07:04,400 >> MY FATHER WORKED AT GENERAL 243 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,200 ELECTRIC IN LOUISVILLE. 244 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:05,700 >> Renee: HE WOULD COMMUTE. 245 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,400 >> HE DID. 246 00:07:05,700 --> 00:07:08,666 TWO HOURS SO I CAN'T BELIEVE IT 247 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,300 NOW. 248 00:07:08,666 --> 00:07:12,100 BUT HE DID. 249 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:13,500 >> Renee: SO I IMAGINE THAT THE 250 00:07:12,100 --> 00:07:14,900 EXPECTATIONS IN THE HOUSE WERE 251 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:15,233 PRETTY HIGH FOR YOU AND YOUR 252 00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:17,600 SISTER. 253 00:07:15,233 --> 00:07:18,300 YOUR SISTER ALSO WENT TO AN IVY 254 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,066 LEAGUE SCHOOL. 255 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:21,333 >> SHE WENT TO STANFORD. 256 00:07:20,066 --> 00:07:22,333 >> Renee: AND WORKS FOR ANIMAL 257 00:07:21,333 --> 00:07:23,133 RIGHTS GROUPS. 258 00:07:22,333 --> 00:07:26,166 >> SHE DOES. 259 00:07:23,133 --> 00:07:27,666 >> Renee: YOU ALL TOOK MORE 260 00:07:26,166 --> 00:07:29,033 CREATIVE HUMANITARIAN PATHS. 261 00:07:27,666 --> 00:07:30,433 >> YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS 262 00:07:29,033 --> 00:07:32,533 SOMETHING THAT WAS ALWAYS KIND 263 00:07:30,433 --> 00:07:34,900 OF STRESSED IN OUR HOUSE, TOO, 264 00:07:32,533 --> 00:07:38,633 WAS THAT WE NEEDED TO GIVE BACK 265 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:41,433 TO THE WORLD, SO I HOPE WE ARE 266 00:07:38,633 --> 00:07:43,466 BOTH DOING THAT. 267 00:07:41,433 --> 00:07:44,400 I I KNOW SHE IS. 268 00:07:43,466 --> 00:07:45,266 I HOPE I AM. 269 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,566 >> Renee: YOU ARE DOING THAT. 270 00:07:45,266 --> 00:07:48,566 WHEN YOU WENT TO HARVARD, YOU 271 00:07:46,566 --> 00:07:50,066 WENT THERE AT 16 AND WHEN I WAS 272 00:07:48,566 --> 00:07:52,333 DOING SOME RESEARCH ABOUT YOU, I 273 00:07:50,066 --> 00:07:54,366 RAN ACROSS AN ARTICLE THAT "THE 274 00:07:52,333 --> 00:07:56,966 WASHINGTON POST" RECENTLY WROTE 275 00:07:54,366 --> 00:07:58,766 ABOUT AN INCIDENT AT HARVARD 276 00:07:56,966 --> 00:07:59,066 RELATING TO THE CONFEDERATE 277 00:07:58,766 --> 00:08:01,133 FLAG. 278 00:07:59,066 --> 00:08:02,266 NOW YOUR FRIEND FRANCIS HAS SAID 279 00:08:01,133 --> 00:08:03,833 I REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT SHE 280 00:08:02,266 --> 00:08:05,233 WAS GOING TO BE ON ONE OF THOSE 281 00:08:03,833 --> 00:08:06,700 MORNING TALK SHOWS ON SUNDAY 282 00:08:05,233 --> 00:08:08,000 MORNING BUT THEN THE PRESIDENT, 283 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:09,666 WHO WAS RONALD REAGAN AT THE 284 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,933 TIME WAS SHOT, AND THAT 285 00:08:09,666 --> 00:08:12,266 INTERRUPTED THE STORY THAT THEY 286 00:08:10,933 --> 00:08:13,866 WERE GOING TO DO ABOUT WHAT 287 00:08:12,266 --> 00:08:14,800 HAPPENED AT HARVARD AT THE TIME. 288 00:08:13,866 --> 00:08:20,966 SHE REMEMBERED. 289 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:21,666 BUT TO GET BACK TO CIRCA 2015, 290 00:08:20,966 --> 00:08:23,466 "THE WASHINGTON POST" ARTICLE 291 00:08:21,666 --> 00:08:26,700 WAS HEADLINED. 292 00:08:23,466 --> 00:08:29,466 THIS WAS JULY, WHEN THE 293 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:32,000 CONFEDERATE FLAG FLEW AT HARVARD 294 00:08:29,466 --> 00:08:35,700 AND IT RAN SHORTLY AFTER THE 295 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:37,600 SHOOTING AT THE CHARLESTON NINE 296 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:39,500 BUT IT DETAILS WHEN A STUDENT 297 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,300 HUNG A CONFEDERATE FLAG OUTSIDE 298 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:45,700 OF HER DORM ROOM IN 1991 AND 299 00:08:42,300 --> 00:08:49,300 THEN IT SAYS AND WHEN A JACINDA 300 00:08:45,700 --> 00:08:51,233 TOWNSEND RESPONDED. 301 00:08:49,300 --> 00:08:51,633 THEN THAT REALLY IGNITED A 302 00:08:51,233 --> 00:08:53,733 CONTROVERSY. 303 00:08:51,633 --> 00:08:57,233 SO TELL US ABOUT THAT INCIDENT 304 00:08:53,733 --> 00:08:57,633 AND WHAT YOUR RESPONSE WAS. 305 00:08:57,233 --> 00:08:59,333 >> SURE. 306 00:08:57,633 --> 00:09:00,900 SO SHE HAD HUNG THIS CONFEDERATE 307 00:08:59,333 --> 00:09:03,100 FLAG AND SHE WAS CLAIMING THAT 308 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:06,633 IT WAS NOT ABOUT RACISM, THAT IT 309 00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:08,933 WAS ABOUT HER SOUTHERN HERITAGE 310 00:09:06,633 --> 00:09:10,633 AND PRIDE, AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW, 311 00:09:08,933 --> 00:09:12,033 IT WAS REALLY HURTFUL TO A LOT 312 00:09:10,633 --> 00:09:15,233 OF PEOPLE THAT THIS WAS HANGING 313 00:09:12,033 --> 00:09:17,233 IN A PLACE THAT MADE US FEEL A 314 00:09:15,233 --> 00:09:20,233 LITTLE BIT UNSAFE FRANKLY. 315 00:09:17,233 --> 00:09:23,333 AND AS I HAD SAID AT THE TIME I 316 00:09:20,233 --> 00:09:24,933 ASSOCIATE THAT WITH CLAN RALLIES 317 00:09:23,333 --> 00:09:34,166 AND I DON'T WANT TO WALK BY AND 318 00:09:24,933 --> 00:09:39,666 SEE THAT EVERY DAY AND I SPRAY 319 00:09:34,166 --> 00:09:43,666 PAINTED A SWAS CA AND PAINTED 320 00:09:39,666 --> 00:09:50,800 RACISM. 321 00:09:43,666 --> 00:09:53,200 IT FORCED A MUCH BIGGER DIALOGUE 322 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,633 BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT 323 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,600 EQUATE THE TWO AND THAT WAS 324 00:09:55,633 --> 00:09:59,933 TAKEN MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY BY THE 325 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,033 COLLEGE ADMINISTRATION. 326 00:09:59,933 --> 00:10:02,533 >> Renee: YOUR ACTION WITH THE 327 00:10:01,033 --> 00:10:05,300 SWASTIKA WAS TAKEN MORE 328 00:10:02,533 --> 00:10:05,600 SERIOUSLY THAN THE CONFEDERATE 329 00:10:05,300 --> 00:10:08,800 FLAG. 330 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:12,500 >> AND I WAS ENCOURAGED TO TAKE 331 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:14,100 IT DOWN AND I KIND OF HELD FAST 332 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:18,133 FOR A VERY LONG TIME. 333 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:20,633 FINALLY IT BEGAN SO DIVISIVE 334 00:10:18,133 --> 00:10:20,933 THAT I FELT LIKE I HAD MADE MY 335 00:10:20,633 --> 00:10:23,433 POINT. 336 00:10:20,933 --> 00:10:25,533 >> Renee: HAD YOU NOT DONE IT IT 337 00:10:23,433 --> 00:10:26,633 MAYBE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE 338 00:10:25,533 --> 00:10:29,033 UNIVERSITY CONFRONT THESE 339 00:10:26,633 --> 00:10:30,733 SYMBOLS AND WHAT IT MEANS TO A 340 00:10:29,033 --> 00:10:32,666 MINORITY POPULATION ON CAMPUS 341 00:10:30,733 --> 00:10:34,766 PAYING THE SAME MONEY TO GO 342 00:10:32,666 --> 00:10:35,566 THERE AS THE ONE HANGING THE 343 00:10:34,766 --> 00:10:37,000 CONFEDERATE FLAG. 344 00:10:35,566 --> 00:10:40,066 GIVEN THE YEAR THAT 2015 HAS 345 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:42,133 BEEN SO FAR WITH NOT JUST THE 346 00:10:40,066 --> 00:10:43,133 CONFEDERATE FLAG TAKEN DOWN OFF 347 00:10:42,133 --> 00:10:45,566 THE CAPITOL GROUNDS BUT THE 348 00:10:43,133 --> 00:10:47,366 DEBATE ACROSS THE NATION, WE ARE 349 00:10:45,566 --> 00:10:49,966 HAVING IN KENTUCKY WE ARE HAVING 350 00:10:47,366 --> 00:10:52,400 IT ABOUT THE JEFFERSON DAVIS 351 00:10:49,966 --> 00:10:55,700 STATUE INSIDE THE ROW TUNDA AND 352 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:57,300 IT WILL REMAIN. 353 00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:58,300 WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THE 354 00:10:57,300 --> 00:11:01,133 CONFEDERATE FLAG AND WHAT IT 355 00:10:58,300 --> 00:11:02,633 STANDS FOR AND STILL WHAT IT 356 00:11:01,133 --> 00:11:12,100 SYMBOLIZES TO AFRICAN AMERICANS 357 00:11:02,633 --> 00:11:13,400 AND THOSE OF AFRICAN DESCENT. 358 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:14,000 >> I'M LESS CONFLICTED THAN I 359 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,600 WAS THEN. 360 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,300 I'VE LIVED A LOT OF PLACES WHERE 361 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,300 PEOPLE WOULD NEVER HANG THAT, 362 00:11:17,300 --> 00:11:22,566 WHERE PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE 363 00:11:19,300 --> 00:11:25,500 TO OTHERS FEELINGS AND, YOU 364 00:11:22,566 --> 00:11:27,733 KNOW, I FEEL NOW AS AN ADULT 365 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:31,833 EVEN MORE STRONGLY THAT WHEN 366 00:11:27,733 --> 00:11:35,600 SOMEONE TELLS YOU THAT AN ACTION 367 00:11:31,833 --> 00:11:40,000 HURTS THEM FOR YOU TO THEN SAY 368 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,833 BUT IS A LITTLE STRANGE. 369 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,933 >> Renee: IF YOU ARE JUST 370 00:11:40,833 --> 00:11:44,133 JOINING US, WE ARE HAVING A 371 00:11:42,933 --> 00:11:46,966 DELIGHTFUL CONVERSATION WITH 372 00:11:44,133 --> 00:11:48,466 JACINDA TOWNSEND AUTHOR OF AIN'T 373 00:11:46,966 --> 00:11:49,033 MONKEY YOU CAN GET AT ANY 374 00:11:48,466 --> 00:11:50,133 BOOKSTORE NEAR YOU. 375 00:11:49,033 --> 00:11:51,433 I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE OTHER 376 00:11:50,133 --> 00:11:53,133 PARTS OF YOUR LIFE BEFORE YOU 377 00:11:51,433 --> 00:11:54,866 BECAME A NOVELIST. 378 00:11:53,133 --> 00:11:56,733 AS I SAID, YOU WANT TO HARVARD. 379 00:11:54,866 --> 00:11:58,233 YOU GOT A POLITICAL SCIENCE 380 00:11:56,733 --> 00:11:59,900 DEGREE, A LAW DEGREE FROM DUKE. 381 00:11:58,233 --> 00:12:02,233 YOU WORKED AS A REPORTER. 382 00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:04,233 YOU WORKED AS A LAWYER. 383 00:12:02,233 --> 00:12:06,933 SO DID JOURNALISM SIDE OF YOU, 384 00:12:04,233 --> 00:12:08,633 DID THAT NOT ALLOW TO YOU 385 00:12:06,933 --> 00:12:10,133 EXERCISE MAYBE THIS MORE 386 00:12:08,633 --> 00:12:11,833 CREATIVE SIDE THAT YOU ARE ABLE 387 00:12:10,133 --> 00:12:13,833 TO EXPLORE NOW BECAUSE LIFE CAN 388 00:12:11,833 --> 00:12:15,833 BE STRANGER THAN FICTION. 389 00:12:13,833 --> 00:12:18,833 >> YES, AND I THINK IN SOME WAYS 390 00:12:15,833 --> 00:12:19,533 I WAS A TERRIBLE JOURNALIST 391 00:12:18,833 --> 00:12:21,966 BECAUSE OF THAT. 392 00:12:19,533 --> 00:12:23,666 I WOULD CALL PEOPLE AND BE 393 00:12:21,966 --> 00:12:25,466 INTERVIEWING THEM FOR MY STORY 394 00:12:23,666 --> 00:12:29,033 AND MY MIND WOULD GO TO ALL 395 00:12:25,466 --> 00:12:30,633 THESE OTHER PLACES, YOU KNOW, 396 00:12:29,033 --> 00:12:36,400 LIKE BUT WHAT DID YOUR MOTHER 397 00:12:30,633 --> 00:12:37,166 THINK ABOUT THAT. 398 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,000 >> Renee: MAYBE NOT ANYWHERE 399 00:12:37,166 --> 00:12:39,466 RELATED TO THE STORY, RIGHT? 400 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,200 >> EXACTLY. 401 00:12:39,466 --> 00:12:45,000 WHAT I WROTE ON TV, YOU KNOW ON 402 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,133 TV IT HAS TO BE SHORT AND SWEET 403 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,100 AND COULD I NEVER QUITE REALLY 404 00:12:46,133 --> 00:12:48,500 DO THAT. 405 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:51,600 AND IT'S FUNNY. 406 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:53,300 SO WHEN I WENT AND GOT MY 407 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,100 M.F.A., THAT'S ALL ABOUT WRITING 408 00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:57,300 SHORT STORIES AND I WOULD WRITE 409 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:58,500 A 20 PAGE STORY AND PEOPLE WOULD 410 00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:00,200 BE LIKE... 411 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:00,500 >> Renee: THAT'S NOT A SHORT 412 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,200 STORY. 413 00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:05,200 >> THIS IS LIKE A 300 PAGE 414 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,766 PIECE, YOU KNOW. 415 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,700 >> Renee: MFA, MASTERS IN FINE 416 00:13:06,766 --> 00:13:10,600 ARTS FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT KNOW. 417 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:12,500 WHEN YOU DABLED AT THAT IN DUKE, 418 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,900 YOU TOOK A CREATIVE WRITING 419 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:15,600 CLASS AND THAT SPARKED THE LOVE 420 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:17,433 YOU HAD AS A CHILD AND THAT SET 421 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,833 YOU ON YOUR COURSE, RIGHT? 422 00:13:17,433 --> 00:13:18,733 >> YES. 423 00:13:17,833 --> 00:13:19,066 >> Renee: YOU KNEW HAD YOU TO 424 00:13:18,733 --> 00:13:21,833 RETURN. 425 00:13:19,066 --> 00:13:23,933 >> I DID. 426 00:13:21,833 --> 00:13:25,433 >> Renee: IOWA WORK WRITERS 427 00:13:23,933 --> 00:13:25,733 WORKSHOP, THAT IS NOT FOR A 428 00:13:25,433 --> 00:13:27,466 SLOP. 429 00:13:25,733 --> 00:13:28,466 THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST 430 00:13:27,466 --> 00:13:29,366 INCREDIBLE CREATIVE WRITING 431 00:13:28,466 --> 00:13:31,366 PROGRAMS IN THE NATION. 432 00:13:29,366 --> 00:13:37,666 SO FOR TO YOU GET THERE AND DO 433 00:13:31,366 --> 00:13:39,000 AS WELL AS YOU DID I'M SURE YOU 434 00:13:37,666 --> 00:13:40,433 LEARNED A LOT FROM THE ROOKIE 435 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,733 THAT YOU WERE WHEN YOU GOT 436 00:13:40,433 --> 00:13:43,166 THERE. 437 00:13:40,733 --> 00:13:43,466 >> I WAS A BABY WHEN I GOT 438 00:13:43,166 --> 00:13:44,466 THERE. 439 00:13:43,466 --> 00:13:45,733 >> Renee: HOW OLD WERE YOU THEN? 440 00:13:44,466 --> 00:13:49,300 >> I WAS PRETTY OLD BECAUSE I 441 00:13:45,733 --> 00:13:50,200 HAD... NOT PRETTY OLD. 442 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:52,500 >> Renee: RELATIVELY FROM THE 443 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,666 16, YEAH, AT HARVARD. 444 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:57,800 >> I WAS 27 WHEN I WENT THERE. 445 00:13:54,666 --> 00:13:58,100 SO I HAD LIVED IN NEW YORK FOR A 446 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,500 WHILE. 447 00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:02,433 I WAS OUT OF LAW SCHOOL BY THEN. 448 00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:03,666 I HAD... 449 00:14:02,433 --> 00:14:04,066 >> Renee: WERE YOU PRACTICING 450 00:14:03,666 --> 00:14:04,700 LAW? 451 00:14:04,066 --> 00:14:06,300 >> I WAS. 452 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:09,200 I WAS PRACTICING LAW WHEN I GOT 453 00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:11,166 THE LETTER FROM IOWA AND I 454 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,166 THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD... IF 455 00:14:11,166 --> 00:14:15,166 I STAYED AND DID THIS FOR 456 00:14:13,166 --> 00:14:16,133 ANOTHER COUPLE OF YEARS, 457 00:14:15,166 --> 00:14:17,866 FINANCIALLY I WOULD BE SITTING 458 00:14:16,133 --> 00:14:26,433 PRETTY BUT I JUST COULDN'T. 459 00:14:17,866 --> 00:14:27,533 I REALLY NEEDED TO GO DO THIS. 460 00:14:26,433 --> 00:14:30,333 I'M SO GLAD I DID. 461 00:14:27,533 --> 00:14:32,333 HAVE I NO REGRETS WHATSOEVER. 462 00:14:30,333 --> 00:14:34,533 I WAS A BABY WHEN I GOT THERE. 463 00:14:32,333 --> 00:14:39,533 I HAD TEACHERS THAT WERE AMAZING 464 00:14:34,533 --> 00:14:41,400 ON EVERY LEVEL FROM WRITING TO 465 00:14:39,533 --> 00:14:43,566 THE BIG PICTURE OF THE STORY. 466 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,966 IOWA CITY IS ONE OF THESE PLACE 467 00:14:43,566 --> 00:14:45,266 WHERE PEOPLE REALLY CARE ABOUT 468 00:14:44,966 --> 00:14:46,966 WORDS. 469 00:14:45,266 --> 00:14:47,666 THERE ARE LOTS OF READERS AND 470 00:14:46,966 --> 00:14:49,633 WRITERS COMING IN. 471 00:14:47,666 --> 00:14:50,733 IT WAS AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE. 472 00:14:49,633 --> 00:14:54,166 >> Renee: NOW THAT YOU ARE IN 473 00:14:50,733 --> 00:14:55,966 THE TEACHER'S ROLE, I'VE READ 474 00:14:54,166 --> 00:14:56,900 ONE THING I HEARD YOU SAY, DON'T 475 00:14:55,966 --> 00:14:57,700 WRITE LIKE ME. 476 00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:58,966 WRITE LIKE YOURSELF. 477 00:14:57,700 --> 00:15:01,033 IT'S HARD FOR AWFUL US BECAUSE 478 00:14:58,966 --> 00:15:03,233 WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO WE ADMIRE. 479 00:15:01,033 --> 00:15:04,533 I ADMIRE YOUR WRITING, THE VIVID 480 00:15:03,233 --> 00:15:10,033 INSTRUCTION YOU GIVE, THE DICKS, 481 00:15:04,533 --> 00:15:12,233 THE WAY IT FLOWS, THE IF I COULD 482 00:15:10,033 --> 00:15:14,400 WRITE LIKE THAT BUT HOW DO YOU 483 00:15:12,233 --> 00:15:14,700 NOT TRANSLATE TO LET ME COPY 484 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,166 THAT. 485 00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:19,666 THAT'S PRETTY HARD TO LEARN TO 486 00:15:16,166 --> 00:15:22,233 DO, TO FIND YOUR OWN VOICE. 487 00:15:19,666 --> 00:15:28,766 >> YES. 488 00:15:22,233 --> 00:15:30,233 MY STUDENTS ARE NERVOUS ABOUT 489 00:15:28,766 --> 00:15:32,400 THEIR EXPERIMENTAL URGES. 490 00:15:30,233 --> 00:15:34,500 I SAY GO FOR IT AND I WORK 491 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,300 WITHIN THEIR FRAMEWORK AND SAY 492 00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:38,300 WELL, I THINK FOR WHAT YOU ARE 493 00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:38,833 DOING THIS IS MAYBE NOT WORKING 494 00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:41,300 SO WELL. 495 00:15:38,833 --> 00:15:42,200 >> Renee: IS THERE ANY WRONG WAY 496 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:43,600 TO WRITE? 497 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,500 >> I ALWAYS SAY I CAN'T TELL YOU 498 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,100 WHAT TO DO. 499 00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:48,933 I CAN TELL YOU WHAT IS NOT 500 00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:52,033 WORKING THAT YOU ARE DOING. 501 00:15:48,933 --> 00:15:53,833 >> Renee: RIGHT, SURE. 502 00:15:52,033 --> 00:15:55,066 FOR YOU, WHAT GOES INTO MAKING 503 00:15:53,833 --> 00:15:57,233 THE NEXT GREAT NOVEL? 504 00:15:55,066 --> 00:15:57,633 WHAT IS EITHER THE PROCESS, THE 505 00:15:57,233 --> 00:15:59,733 INGREDIENTS. 506 00:15:57,633 --> 00:16:01,800 HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU FINISH 507 00:15:59,733 --> 00:16:03,700 SAINT MONKEY, HOW DID YOU KNOW 508 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,533 OKAY, THIS IS PRETTY GOOD. 509 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:09,333 THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD SAY IN 510 00:16:06,533 --> 00:16:12,333 BOWLING GREEN DAG GONE GOOD. 511 00:16:09,333 --> 00:16:14,733 >> I WAS AFRAID AT THE END. 512 00:16:12,333 --> 00:16:19,666 I THINK THOUGH THERE IS A POINT 513 00:16:14,733 --> 00:16:21,166 AND THAT'S SUCH A GREAT 514 00:16:19,666 --> 00:16:22,833 QUESTION. 515 00:16:21,166 --> 00:16:24,366 THERE WAS A POINT FOR ME THAT 516 00:16:22,833 --> 00:16:26,366 HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH 517 00:16:24,366 --> 00:16:27,966 TECHNIQUE AND HAS TO DO WITH 518 00:16:26,366 --> 00:16:28,266 THIS BENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THE 519 00:16:27,966 --> 00:16:30,633 WORLD. 520 00:16:28,266 --> 00:16:32,166 AND I DON'T HAVE IT EVERY DAY, I 521 00:16:30,633 --> 00:16:33,266 REALLY DON'T BUT SOME DAYS I'M 522 00:16:32,166 --> 00:16:35,433 REALLY IN THERE WITH IT AND 523 00:16:33,266 --> 00:16:37,466 THOSE ARE THE DAYS I TRY TO WORK 524 00:16:35,433 --> 00:16:39,733 AND CREATE AND THEN ON THE OTHER 525 00:16:37,466 --> 00:16:41,866 DAYS I MAYBE EDIT, YOU KNOW. 526 00:16:39,733 --> 00:16:48,066 BUT I'M WORKING ON A NOVEL NOW 527 00:16:41,866 --> 00:16:49,566 AND I HAVE A PLOT BUT I'M STILL 528 00:16:48,066 --> 00:16:52,066 AT THE POINT WHERE I THINK THE 529 00:16:49,566 --> 00:16:52,766 PLOT IS LAME. 530 00:16:52,066 --> 00:16:53,266 >> Renee: INTERNATIONAL 531 00:16:52,766 --> 00:16:57,266 ADOPTION? 532 00:16:53,266 --> 00:16:59,500 >> THAT'S THE ONE I FINISHED. 533 00:16:57,266 --> 00:17:01,966 THIS IS ONE WHERE THIS WOMAN HAS 534 00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:04,266 A RUNNING CRAIG'S LIST AD AND 535 00:17:01,966 --> 00:17:04,700 SHE BUYS BOOKS AND SHE MEETS ALL 536 00:17:04,266 --> 00:17:06,466 THESE PEOPLE. 537 00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:07,466 SO IT'S ABOUT THAT. 538 00:17:06,466 --> 00:17:07,733 >> Renee: THAT DOESN'T SOUND 539 00:17:07,466 --> 00:17:08,866 BAD. 540 00:17:07,733 --> 00:17:10,800 >> WELL THANK YOU. 541 00:17:08,866 --> 00:17:13,266 >> Renee: I'D READ THAT. 542 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,200 >> THANK YOU. 543 00:17:13,266 --> 00:17:18,300 >> Renee: BEFORE SAINT MONKEY 544 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,800 THERE WAS A MANUSCRIPT THAT 545 00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,500 DIDN'T QUITE FLY AND YOU TALKED 546 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,100 ABOUT THIS THAT THAT WORK WAS 547 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:24,600 DEEMED TOO GRIP. 548 00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:25,400 YOU SAID THE WORDS IT DIDN'T 549 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,833 HAVE ENOUGH AIR. 550 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,400 THAT WAS AN INTERESTING TURN OF 551 00:17:26,833 --> 00:17:28,800 A PHRASE. 552 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,300 HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU'VE 553 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,700 GIVEN AIR TO A WORK AND THAT 554 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:35,533 IT'S NOT SO GRIM AND HEAVY THAT 555 00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:36,533 IT BOGS THE READER DOWN TOO 556 00:17:35,533 --> 00:17:36,966 MUCH? 557 00:17:36,533 --> 00:17:38,233 >> RIGHT. 558 00:17:36,966 --> 00:17:38,733 I TELL MY STUDENTS THIS IS A 559 00:17:38,233 --> 00:17:41,600 TRUE STORY. 560 00:17:38,733 --> 00:17:42,233 THERE WAS A BRIDE WHO HAD A SIX 561 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,900 FOOT CAKE. 562 00:17:42,233 --> 00:17:45,533 SO SHE GOT UP ON THIS LADDER TO 563 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,833 CUT THE CAKE AND THE CAKE FELL 564 00:17:45,533 --> 00:17:49,133 OVER BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE 565 00:17:46,833 --> 00:17:49,433 ENOUGH AIR FOR WHAT IT WAS, YOU 566 00:17:49,133 --> 00:17:51,733 KNOW. 567 00:17:49,433 --> 00:17:55,466 AND I THINK NOVELS, ESPECIALLY 568 00:17:51,733 --> 00:17:58,866 NOVELS ARE SO SIMILAR BECAUSE 569 00:17:55,466 --> 00:18:02,100 THEY'RE SO, SO WHEN YOU PUT AIR 570 00:17:58,866 --> 00:18:03,333 IN, YOU PUT A CHARACTER SORT OF 571 00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:06,033 FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THE WORLD 572 00:18:03,333 --> 00:18:09,133 OR YOU PUT THEIR SENSE OF HUMOR 573 00:18:06,033 --> 00:18:12,433 OR YOU PUT SOME PLOT THAT IS 574 00:18:09,133 --> 00:18:18,533 JUST A LITTLE MORE AVAILABLE FOR 575 00:18:12,433 --> 00:18:20,233 SORT OF LIGHT HEARTEDNESS 576 00:18:18,533 --> 00:18:20,600 BECAUSE IT CAN'T BE ALL 577 00:18:20,233 --> 00:18:22,433 STRUGGLE. 578 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,166 IT CAN'T BE ALL PAIN. 579 00:18:22,433 --> 00:18:25,900 I THINK A LOT OF YOUNGER WRITERS 580 00:18:25,166 --> 00:18:27,566 PARTICULARLY THINK THAT'S WHAT 581 00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:31,166 IT MEANS TO BE A SERIOUS WRITER 582 00:18:27,566 --> 00:18:33,666 IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE 583 00:18:31,166 --> 00:18:36,066 CANCER FOR 20 YEARS OR, YOU 584 00:18:33,666 --> 00:18:37,166 KNOW, DIE IN CAR WRECKS AND NOT 585 00:18:36,066 --> 00:18:38,866 AT ALL. 586 00:18:37,166 --> 00:18:40,766 >> Renee: BECAUSE THIS BOOK DOES 587 00:18:38,866 --> 00:18:42,700 HAVE SOME VERY COMPLEX ISSUES 588 00:18:40,766 --> 00:18:44,733 AND HEAVYWEIGHTY ISSUES. 589 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:46,266 SEGREGATION, SEXISM, POVERTY, 590 00:18:44,733 --> 00:18:47,800 ALL OF THAT IS CONFRONTED BUT 591 00:18:46,266 --> 00:18:51,700 THERE ARE SOME VERY LIGHT 592 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:53,100 MOMENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, TERN 593 00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:54,533 YOUR FROWN UPSIDE DOWN. 594 00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:56,466 THAT'S PROBABLY VERY APPEALING 595 00:18:54,533 --> 00:18:57,266 TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, AS YOU SAY, 596 00:18:56,466 --> 00:18:59,100 GIVING IT AIR. 597 00:18:57,266 --> 00:18:59,433 SO YOU LEARNED FROM THAT 598 00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:00,566 FIRST... 599 00:18:59,433 --> 00:19:02,300 >> I DID. 600 00:19:00,566 --> 00:19:03,900 AND I'LL TELL YOU, THERE IS A 601 00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:05,533 SCENE IN HERE, THIS ISN'T TOO 602 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:08,466 MUCH OF A SPOILER ALERT BUT 603 00:19:05,533 --> 00:19:10,266 THERE IS A SCENE IN HERE THAT I 604 00:19:08,466 --> 00:19:10,800 LAUGHED EVERY SINGLE TIME I 605 00:19:10,266 --> 00:19:13,066 REVISED IT. 606 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,866 I LAUGHED MORE AND MORE AND 607 00:19:13,066 --> 00:19:19,233 THAT'S WHEN SHE BRINGS HER 608 00:19:15,866 --> 00:19:21,800 HUSBAND HOME. 609 00:19:19,233 --> 00:19:22,633 SO I LAUGH PRETTY HARD. 610 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,700 >> Renee: AND WHERE DO HAVE YOU 611 00:19:22,633 --> 00:19:26,333 TO GO TO GO FROM HEAVY TO LIGHT 612 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:28,833 AND TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE 613 00:19:26,333 --> 00:19:31,000 MAKING A TRANSITION THAT MAKES 614 00:19:28,833 --> 00:19:33,500 SENSE? 615 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,433 >> USUALLY ITS IN DIALOGUE WHERE 616 00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:37,533 THE LIGHT HEARTEDNESS COMES FROM 617 00:19:35,433 --> 00:19:40,033 AND THE HUMOR. 618 00:19:37,533 --> 00:19:42,433 I THINK, I MEAN IN REAL LIFE A 619 00:19:40,033 --> 00:19:44,933 LOT OF... DURING A LOT OF SORT 620 00:19:42,433 --> 00:19:47,533 OF NORMAL CONVERSATION PEOPLE 621 00:19:44,933 --> 00:19:47,900 SAY THINGS THAT ARE JUST 622 00:19:47,533 --> 00:19:48,700 HILARIOUS. 623 00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,433 >> Renee: AND IN HERE BECAUSE 624 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:52,500 YOU TALK ABOUT SHORT STORIES AND 625 00:19:50,433 --> 00:19:54,166 THEY'RE SHORTER THAN THE 20 626 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:56,933 PAGES AS SHE SAID BEFORE THAT 627 00:19:54,166 --> 00:19:58,733 WRITING IN SHORT CHAPTERS REALLY 628 00:19:56,933 --> 00:20:00,066 HELPS BECAUSE THEY COULD BE 629 00:19:58,733 --> 00:20:01,333 TAKEN JUST AS A SHORT STORY ON 630 00:20:00,066 --> 00:20:02,466 THEIR OWN, MANY OF THESE. 631 00:20:01,333 --> 00:20:04,033 WOULD THAT BE ADVICE THAT WOULD 632 00:20:02,466 --> 00:20:05,766 YOU GIVE TO YOUNG WRITERS IS, 633 00:20:04,033 --> 00:20:07,766 YOU NO, GO SHORTER? 634 00:20:05,766 --> 00:20:10,266 I ALSO REMEMBER SEEING YOU TALK 635 00:20:07,766 --> 00:20:12,766 ABOUT YOU WOULD WRITE A PAGE, 636 00:20:10,266 --> 00:20:14,600 TAKE THAT OUT, EDIT THE PAGE AND 637 00:20:12,766 --> 00:20:16,466 THEN KEEP GOING. 638 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,800 AND HOW EITHER PRODUCTIVE OR 639 00:20:16,466 --> 00:20:19,166 UNPRODUCTIVE WAS THAT PROCESS 640 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:22,700 FOR YOU? 641 00:20:19,166 --> 00:20:28,300 >> SO A LOT OF THE CHAPTER 642 00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:30,100 LENGTH HAS TO DO WITH PROCESS. 643 00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:32,233 WHEN I BEFORE, PROBABLY ABOUT 15 644 00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:33,300 YEARS AGO WHEN I JUST GOT OUT OF 645 00:20:32,233 --> 00:20:34,200 GRADUATE SCHOOL I WAS STILL 646 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:35,900 DOING THIS THING. 647 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,133 I WOULD PRINT OUT WHAT I HAD 648 00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:39,600 WRITTEN TWO OR THREE PAGES AND 649 00:20:38,133 --> 00:20:41,200 THEN GO BACK AND REVISE IT AND 650 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,000 DO IT AGAIN AND GO BACK AND DO 651 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,133 IT AGAIN AND REVISE IT AND THEN 652 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,033 I DID A FULBRIGHT IN AFRICA AND 653 00:20:45,133 --> 00:20:47,933 ONE OF THE VERY FIRST THINGS 654 00:20:47,033 --> 00:20:49,533 THAT HAPPENED THE VERY FIRST 655 00:20:47,933 --> 00:20:52,833 WEEK I WAS THERE WAS THAT MY 656 00:20:49,533 --> 00:20:55,533 PRINTER BLEW UP BECAUSE I DIDN'T 657 00:20:52,833 --> 00:20:58,400 PLUG THE CONVERTER IN WITH IT. 658 00:20:55,533 --> 00:21:01,700 THAT ACTUALLY FORCED ME TO STOP 659 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,100 DOING THAT; TO STOP REWRITING 660 00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:06,033 AND REWRITING AND JUST KEEP 661 00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:07,633 GOING AND IT WAS THE BEST THING 662 00:21:06,033 --> 00:21:09,433 EVER BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I DO. 663 00:21:07,633 --> 00:21:11,033 THAT BEING SAID, ONE OF THE 664 00:21:09,433 --> 00:21:13,266 REASONS THE CHAPTERS ARE SO 665 00:21:11,033 --> 00:21:15,100 SHORT IS BECAUSE IT MAKES IT SO 666 00:21:13,266 --> 00:21:16,900 MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO REVISE 667 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:19,033 THEM IN ONE SITTING AND KEEP A 668 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:19,933 SCENE SORT OF SUSTAINED IN MY 669 00:21:19,033 --> 00:21:20,466 HEAD. 670 00:21:19,933 --> 00:21:22,033 >> Renee: SURE. 671 00:21:20,466 --> 00:21:22,633 RIGHT, AND YOU HAVE TWO KIDS TO 672 00:21:22,033 --> 00:21:23,733 CHASE AFTER. 673 00:21:22,633 --> 00:21:25,266 THAT'S PROBABLY A BETTER 674 00:21:23,733 --> 00:21:27,633 APPROACH ANYWAY. 675 00:21:25,266 --> 00:21:30,533 >> YES, YES, YES. 676 00:21:27,633 --> 00:21:33,433 I AM A BIG BELIEVER IN I WRITE 677 00:21:30,533 --> 00:21:35,200 EVERY DAY NO MATTER WHAT. 678 00:21:33,433 --> 00:21:37,033 BUT THEN THAT MEANS SOMETIMES 679 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,266 I'M WRITING WHILE THEY'RE IN 680 00:21:37,033 --> 00:21:42,266 THEIR PIANO LESSON OR SKATING OR 681 00:21:40,266 --> 00:21:43,666 WHATEVER, SO THAT ALSO HELPS MY 682 00:21:42,266 --> 00:21:45,066 PROCESS THAT THESE CHAPTERS ARE 683 00:21:43,666 --> 00:21:46,966 SHORT ENOUGH THAT I CAN ACTUALLY 684 00:21:45,066 --> 00:21:47,300 VISIT WITH THEM DURING A 685 00:21:46,966 --> 00:21:48,966 SITTING. 686 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:50,433 >> Renee: AND HOW ARE THEY 687 00:21:48,966 --> 00:21:52,033 INFORMING YOUR APPROACH NOW OR 688 00:21:50,433 --> 00:21:53,866 EVEN YOUR TOPICS OR WHAT YOU 689 00:21:52,033 --> 00:21:58,000 THINK ABOUT IN YOUR WRITING? 690 00:21:53,866 --> 00:22:01,066 >> I WRITE SO MUCH MORE NOW 691 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,366 ABOUT MOTHERHOOD THAN I DID 692 00:22:01,066 --> 00:22:02,666 BEFORE BECAUSE IT HAS CHANGED 693 00:22:02,366 --> 00:22:04,433 ME. 694 00:22:02,666 --> 00:22:05,866 IT HAS CHANGED ME AS A PERSON. 695 00:22:04,433 --> 00:22:08,233 CHANGED THE WAY I LOOK AT THE 696 00:22:05,866 --> 00:22:11,866 WORLD, YOU KNOW, AND SO I WRITE 697 00:22:08,233 --> 00:22:13,966 A LOT ABOUT THAT. 698 00:22:11,866 --> 00:22:15,566 >> Renee: SO TELL US QUICKLY 699 00:22:13,966 --> 00:22:17,266 ABOUT SAINT MONKEY AND WHERE THE 700 00:22:15,566 --> 00:22:18,766 NAME CAME FROM EFFICIENT OF ALL 701 00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:20,500 AND THE TWO MAIN CHARACTERS 702 00:22:18,766 --> 00:22:23,266 AUDREY AND CAROLINE. 703 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:25,066 >> SO AUDREY IS A DREAMY YOUNG 704 00:22:23,266 --> 00:22:27,866 WOMAN WHO WANTS TO BE A PIANIST 705 00:22:25,066 --> 00:22:33,233 AND SHE IS A BRILLIANT PIANIST 706 00:22:27,866 --> 00:22:36,700 AND CAROLINE IS THE MORE CAUSE 707 00:22:33,233 --> 00:22:38,300 TICK CAWFTIC BITTER YOUNG WOMAN. 708 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:40,200 CAROLINE HAS DREAMS OF GOING TO 709 00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:54,633 HOLLYWOOD BUT ARE CUT SHORT 710 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:54,633 BECAUSE A TRAGEDY HAPPENS 711 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,366 AND 712 00:22:55,766 --> 00:22:59,333 SHE CAN'T LEAVE HER HOMETOWN AND 713 00:22:57,366 --> 00:23:02,300 SHE HAS TO WATCH HER BEST FRIEND 714 00:22:59,333 --> 00:23:06,433 LIVE THE DREAM AND THERE IS A 715 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:09,033 SCENE IN THE TITLE CHAPTER THAT 716 00:23:06,433 --> 00:23:11,033 AWED CAROLINE'S GRANDMOTHER SAYS 717 00:23:09,033 --> 00:23:11,833 SHE'S A MONKEY AND SHE SAID NO, 718 00:23:11,033 --> 00:23:14,033 SHE'S A SAINT. 719 00:23:11,833 --> 00:23:17,533 THE WAYS WE SEE PEOPLE AND THE 720 00:23:14,033 --> 00:23:21,333 WAY THAT WE LOVE PEOPLE DESPITE 721 00:23:17,533 --> 00:23:22,966 WHAT IS MONKEYISH ABOUT THEM, 722 00:23:21,333 --> 00:23:24,866 DESPITE THEIR SHORTCOMINGS, THE 723 00:23:22,966 --> 00:23:26,866 WAY WE KIND OF FORGIVE THAT AND 724 00:23:24,866 --> 00:23:28,466 LEARN TO LOVE THEM ANYWAY. 725 00:23:26,866 --> 00:23:32,100 >> Renee: AND AS I MENTIONED, 726 00:23:28,466 --> 00:23:33,966 YOUR USE OF THE DICTION AND 727 00:23:32,100 --> 00:23:34,766 VERNACULAR FROM THAT ERA AND 728 00:23:33,966 --> 00:23:37,100 THAT TIME. 729 00:23:34,766 --> 00:23:38,166 SEAMLESS IS NOT THE RIGHT WORD 730 00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:40,700 BUT CLOSE TO PERFECT IN THE WAY 731 00:23:38,166 --> 00:23:43,433 THAT MANY OF US GREW UP RURAL 732 00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:45,500 AND MAYBE NOT IN THE 1950s, 733 00:23:43,433 --> 00:23:47,100 I'M NOT THAT OLD BUT I 734 00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:50,200 DEFINITELY KNOW PEOPLE WHO SPOKE 735 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:52,033 IN THOSE TONES AND VER VERNACULR 736 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,400 BUT GETTING THAT DOWN IS PRETTY 737 00:23:52,033 --> 00:23:54,933 TOUGH TO DO. 738 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,300 I WOULD THINK IT WAS A 739 00:23:54,933 --> 00:23:56,300 CHALLENGE. 740 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:58,033 >> MORE OF A CHALLENGE THAN I 741 00:23:56,300 --> 00:24:00,400 THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BECAUSE I 742 00:23:58,033 --> 00:24:02,533 HAD MY GRANDMOTHER KIND OF SPOKE 743 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,200 THE WAY CAROLINE SPEAKS. 744 00:24:02,533 --> 00:24:08,400 SHE PASSED AWAY BEFORE I EVEN 745 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,500 STARTED WRITING THIS AND I HAD 746 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,700 THAT IN MY EAR. 747 00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:12,533 I REMEMBERED IT. 748 00:24:10,700 --> 00:24:14,500 BUT WRITING IT IS A DIFFERENT... 749 00:24:12,533 --> 00:24:19,466 I ACTUALLY HAD A CHART, FOR 750 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:20,733 INSTANCE, I HAD A CHART ABOUT 751 00:24:19,466 --> 00:24:22,433 WEREN'T AND WARRANT. 752 00:24:20,733 --> 00:24:24,333 YOU USE THEM AT DIFFERENT TIMES. 753 00:24:22,433 --> 00:24:26,333 I KEPT CHARTS. 754 00:24:24,333 --> 00:24:29,100 >> Renee: EVEN THE WORD NARY. 755 00:24:26,333 --> 00:24:31,200 WE NEVER HEAR THAT UNTIL I GO 756 00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:34,433 HOME AND I MIGHT HEAR IT. 757 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,066 I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO READ A 758 00:24:34,433 --> 00:24:37,733 BRIEF PASSAGE SO PEOPLE GET A 759 00:24:36,066 --> 00:24:38,033 FLAVOR OF WHAT SAINT MONKEY IS 760 00:24:37,733 --> 00:24:40,333 LIKE. 761 00:24:38,033 --> 00:24:42,266 >> THIS IS FROM AUDREY'S 762 00:24:40,333 --> 00:24:43,466 PERSPECTIVE. 763 00:24:42,266 --> 00:24:44,966 FINALLY COMCOME APRIL THE WIND 764 00:24:43,466 --> 00:24:46,733 BLOWS DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAIN AND 765 00:24:44,966 --> 00:24:48,333 STARTS TO WEAR WARM AGAIN ON 766 00:24:46,733 --> 00:24:50,300 PEOPLE'S BARE ARMS AND GRAND PAP 767 00:24:48,333 --> 00:24:52,766 AND I SIT OUT ON THE PORCH IN 768 00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:53,133 THE PUNCHED IRON CHAIRS AND PLAY 769 00:24:52,766 --> 00:24:54,966 CHECKERS. 770 00:24:53,133 --> 00:24:56,566 GRAND PAP IS A MASTER, A WIZARD 771 00:24:54,966 --> 00:24:58,266 WHO CAN BEAT ANYONE IN THE 772 00:24:56,566 --> 00:25:01,733 COUNTY AND WHEN I COME NEAR 773 00:24:58,266 --> 00:25:02,233 WINNING HE UPSETS THE CHECKER 774 00:25:01,733 --> 00:25:03,433 BOARD. 775 00:25:02,233 --> 00:25:04,233 AFTERWARDS HE DOESN'T APOLOGIZE 776 00:25:03,433 --> 00:25:06,233 OR EVEN SPEAKS. 777 00:25:04,233 --> 00:25:07,933 HE STEPS OFF THE PORCH, BEND 778 00:25:06,233 --> 00:25:09,033 OVER THE GRASS AND PICKS UP 779 00:25:07,933 --> 00:25:11,566 THREE BLACK PIECES THAT HAVE 780 00:25:09,033 --> 00:25:12,600 LANDED THERE, A CONSOLATION 781 00:25:11,566 --> 00:25:14,466 SPELLING HIS ANGER. 782 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,066 HE SCRAPES THE REMAINING 21 OFF 783 00:25:14,466 --> 00:25:18,566 THE PORCH AND THEN TO INTO HIS 784 00:25:17,066 --> 00:25:20,700 CARPETED BOX WHILE I WIGGLE 785 00:25:18,566 --> 00:25:22,633 MYSELF INTO MY SWING AND FINGER 786 00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:23,166 A BIT OF RUST GROWING ON THE 787 00:25:22,633 --> 00:25:26,566 CHAIN. 788 00:25:23,166 --> 00:25:27,200 RIGHT NICE BREEZE IS SAIL IS ALL 789 00:25:26,566 --> 00:25:28,700 HE SAYS. 790 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,300 HE PUSHES US BACK AND FORTH WITH 791 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:32,500 HIS FEET WHILE WE WATCH THE SUN 792 00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:34,200 SINK LIKE A TANGERINE BEHIND THE 793 00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:35,300 TREES. 794 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,500 >> Renee: I LOVE THAT. 795 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:40,300 LIKE A TANGERINE BEHIND THE 796 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:42,200 TREES AND THIS, ALL OF THAT, THE 797 00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:43,700 IMAGERY THAT YOU EVOKE, I DON'T 798 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,233 KNOW, I THINK I'VE HEARD YOU 799 00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:47,400 BEING COMPARED TO TONY MORRISON 800 00:25:45,233 --> 00:25:49,800 A LITTLE BIT, AND I KNOW THAT'S 801 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,200 GOT TO BE HIGH FLATTER. 802 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,500 >> YES. 803 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,800 >> Renee: YOUR LANGUAGE LIKE 804 00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:56,933 BELOVED WHICH MANY OF US HAVE 805 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,400 READ THAT IS INTRICATE, COMPLEX, 806 00:25:56,933 --> 00:25:59,833 MAKES YOU THINK, MAKES YOU 807 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,900 REWEED IT A FEW TIMES. 808 00:25:59,833 --> 00:26:04,300 BUT YOU GET SO INVOLVED WITH 809 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:05,500 THESE CHARACTERS THAT YOU LIVE 810 00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:07,400 THROUGH THEM, PARTICULARLY IF 811 00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:09,100 YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF CONNECTION 812 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,500 TO THAT LIFE. 813 00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:10,600 >> YES. 814 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:12,233 >> Renee: IS THAT WHAT YOU HOPE 815 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,300 YOUR WORK ACCOMPLISHES? 816 00:26:12,233 --> 00:26:15,900 EVEN OUTSIDE OF THOSE WHO, IN 817 00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:17,900 KENTUCKY, HAVE LIVED HERE, THAT 818 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:20,266 THEY CAN RELATE TO SAINT MONK 819 00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:23,933 NECESSITY SOME ASPECT? 820 00:26:20,266 --> 00:26:25,333 >> I DID AND BECAUSE I LOVE MY 821 00:26:23,933 --> 00:26:28,333 HOMELAND SO MUCH, YOU KNOW, SO 822 00:26:25,333 --> 00:26:30,666 IN SOME WAYS IT IS A LOVE LETTER 823 00:26:28,333 --> 00:26:39,866 TO KENTUCKIANS PARTICULARLY THIS 824 00:26:30,666 --> 00:26:40,966 WAY OF LIFE THAT HAS SORT OF BAN 825 00:26:39,866 --> 00:26:42,600 BEGUN TO PASS AWAY WITH THE 826 00:26:40,966 --> 00:26:44,366 PEOPLE WHO ARE PASSING AWAY. 827 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,866 I WANTED TO CAPTURE WHAT IS SO 828 00:26:44,366 --> 00:26:46,566 BEAUTIFUL ABOUT THIS LAND AND 829 00:26:45,866 --> 00:26:47,866 THESE PEOPLE. 830 00:26:46,566 --> 00:26:48,733 >> Renee: THESE YOUNG LADIES, 831 00:26:47,866 --> 00:26:50,166 UNDERSTAND THEIR IDENTITIES AND 832 00:26:48,733 --> 00:26:51,466 I WON'T GIVE IT AWAY, BUT TO 833 00:26:50,166 --> 00:26:53,366 UNDERSTAND WHO THEY ARE, HOW 834 00:26:51,466 --> 00:26:54,766 THEY GET TO LEARN WHO THEY ARE, 835 00:26:53,366 --> 00:26:56,400 EITHER BY STAYING WHERE THEY ARE 836 00:26:54,766 --> 00:26:58,500 OR GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE, THAT IS 837 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,266 A LIFE LESSON IN AND OF ITSELF 838 00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:02,233 AND SO YOU REALLY FEEL THAT, 839 00:27:00,266 --> 00:27:03,633 PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU COME TO A 840 00:27:02,233 --> 00:27:05,633 CERTAIN AGE IN YOUR LIFE. 841 00:27:03,633 --> 00:27:08,033 YOU THINK, I GET THAT AT A 842 00:27:05,633 --> 00:27:09,166 DEEPER LEVEL THAN I WOULD HAD I 843 00:27:08,033 --> 00:27:10,866 BEEN THOSE CHARACTERS AGES. 844 00:27:09,166 --> 00:27:12,266 I THANK YOU FOR THAT. 845 00:27:10,866 --> 00:27:12,666 THANK YOU FOR THAT SHARED 846 00:27:12,266 --> 00:27:14,333 EXPERIENCE. 847 00:27:12,666 --> 00:27:15,300 >> THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. 848 00:27:14,333 --> 00:27:17,266 >> Renee: I HIGHLY RECOMMEND 849 00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:17,633 SAINT MONKEY BY JACINDA 850 00:27:17,266 --> 00:27:20,366 TOWNSEND. 851 00:27:17,633 --> 00:27:21,266 YOU CAN GET IT ONLINE AT A LOCAL 852 00:27:20,366 --> 00:27:23,966 BOOKSTORE NEAR YOU. 853 00:27:21,266 --> 00:27:24,366 I HOPE YOU'LL SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL 854 00:27:23,966 --> 00:27:26,466 BOOKSTORES. 855 00:27:24,366 --> 00:27:28,266 YOU IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE 856 00:27:26,466 --> 00:27:31,400 ABOUT JACINDA TOWNSEND AND HER 857 00:27:28,266 --> 00:27:33,200 WORK LOG ON TO OUR WEBSITE AND 858 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,500 MAKE SURE YOU FOLLOW ME ON 859 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,266 FACEBOOK, TWITTER, INSTAGRAM AND 860 00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:38,400 BLOG PROMPTER. 861 00:27:37,266 --> 00:27:38,766 THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR 862 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,000 WATCHING. 863 00:27:38,766 --> 00:27:42,366 TAKE REALLY GOOD CARE AND WE'LL 864 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,366 SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.