♪ ♪

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>> Renee: AUTHOR JACINDA

TOWNSEND HAS EARNED CRITICAL

ACCLAIM FOR HER DEBUT NOVEL

SAINT MONKEY, A COMING OF AGE

NOVEL SET IN 1950s EASTERN

KENTUCKY.

I'LL TALK WITH THE BOWLING GREEN

KENTUCKY NATIVE ABOUT HER

WRITING, RURAL ROOTS AND HER

JOURNEY FROM LAWYER TO REPORTER

TO JOURNALIST AND NOVELIST NOW

ON "CONNECTIONS."

THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR

CONNECTIONS TODAY.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

SOUTH CENTRAL KENTUCKY NATIVE

JACINDA TOWNSEND'S PATH TO

LITERARY SUCCESS HAS BEEN

SOMEWHAT CURVEY.

A LOVER OF WRITING SINCE

CHILDHOOD, TOWNSEND EXPLORED

JOURNALISM AND LAW BEFORE

RETURNING TO THE CRAFT THAT HAS

GIVEN HER VOICE AND NOTORIETY IN

THE FIELD OF LITERARY FICTION.

SHE GRADUATED EARLY FROM WARREN

CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL AND ENTERED

HARVARD AT THE AGE OF 16 WHERE

SHE EARNED A POLITICAL SCIENCE

DEGREE.

SHE EARNED A LAW DEGREE FROM

DUKE.

WORKED AS A REPORTER AND A

LAWYER BUT EVENTUALLY REKINDLED

HER LOVE OF WRITING AND MADE

THAT HER VOCATION ALONG WITH

TEACHING CREATIVE WRITING AT

INDIANA UNIVERSITY.

HER DEBUT NOVEL IS SAINT MONKEY

WINNING CRITICAL ACCLAIM

NATIONWIDE.

WE WELCOME JACINDA TOWNSEND TO

CONNECTIONS.

I FEEL LIKE I KNOW YOU.

THE REASON WHY I DO IS BECAUSE I

DID A LITTLE INTEL ON YOU BEFORE

THE SHOW.

WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT YOUR

BOOK BUT I ALWAYS LOVE TALKING

TO WRITERS ABOUT THEIR

UPBRINGING, THEIR PAST AND

BECAUSE YOU REALLY DEAL SO MUCH

IN YOUR WORK ABOUT SETTINGS AND

PLACE AND THE CULTURE OF PLACE

AND SO I TALKED TO A PERSON AND

IT'S KIND OF LIKE THIS IS YOUR

LIFE.

SO I'LL LET YOU GUESS WHO THIS

CAME FROM.

A CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF YOURS.

FEMALE.

SHE TOLD ME YOU WERE SO SMART IN

SCHOOL YOU WERE SKIPPED AT LEAST

A GRADE, MAYBE TWO.

SHE COULDN'T REMEMBER.

SHE MET YOU IN THE FIFTH OR

SIXTH GRADE AND YOU CAME TO

CLASS WITH A BANDANA ON YOUR

HEAD BECAUSE I THINK YOU PUT

YOUR FINGER IN A SOCKET AND YOUR

HAIR WAS FRIED.

YOU CAN TELL ME IF THAT'S TRUE

AND THIS FRIEND ALSO WAS THE

INSPIRATION FOR A CHILDREN'S

BOOK YOU WROTE, AND SHE COULD

HAVE HELPED INSPIRE SOME OF THE

DIALOGUE IN SAINT MONKEYS.

>> THAT'S FRANCIS.

>> Renee: FRANCIS GRAHAM.

SHE WOULD NEVER LET ME PUT HER

PICTURE ON CAMERA.

I'VE KNOWN HER FOR A DECADE BUT

THIS IS HER ONE SHOUT OUT.

>> I LOVE FRANCIS.

>> Renee: YOU KEEP IN TOUCH WITH

HER ALL THIS TIME.

>> I HAVE KNOWN HER.

WE WERE A LOT LIKE THESE GIRLS

WE WERE FRIENDS FROM FIFTH GRADE

THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE

AND, YEAH, SHE IS THE

INSPIRATION FOR A LOT OF THIS

DIALOGUE.

SO, YES.

YES.

>> Renee: I WON'T ASK HER IF SHE

IS AUDREY OR CAROLINE.

>> I'M NOT SURE.

>> Renee: I'M NOT SURE EITHER.

WE'LL TELL YOU WHO AUDREY AND

CAROLINE ARE.

IF YOU HAVE NOT READ SAINT

MONKEY, HAVE YOU TO.

IT IS A GREAT MOFL.

DID SHE GET EVERYTHING RIGHT IN

HER REMEMBRANCE ABOUT YOU BEING

SO SMART THAT YOU WERE ADVANCED

TWO GRADES.

WE KNOW THAT YOU ENTERED HARVARD

AT 16 SO THAT EXPLAINS SOME OF

THAT.

>> I SKIP TWO GRADES.

YES, I DID.

WTION WAS I SMART OR DID THEY

WANT TO GET RID OF ME?

PROBABLY THE LATTER.

>> Renee: COMBINATION OF BOTH,

LET'S JUST SAY THAT.

WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT

BOWLING GREEN AND WE OFTEN HEAR

WHEN THEY DESCRIBE YOU THEY SAY

SOUTH CENTRAL KENTUCKY BECAUSE

PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW WHERE

BOWLING GREEN IS BUT THAT WHOLE

AREA THERE HAS REALLY GROWN JUST

AS KENTUCKY HAS AND CHANGED AND

YOU COME BACK FREQUENTLY ENOUGH.

HOW HAVE YOU SEEN THAT AREA

EVOLVE INTO MORE OF A MINI

METROPOLITAN AREA?

>> THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

SO WHEN I WAS LITTLE BECAUSE MY

FAMILY IS FROM THERE GENERATIONS

AND I REALLY GREW UP THERE FROM

THE TIME I WAS TWO UNTIL THE

TIME I LEFT.

WHEN I WAS LITTLE, IT WAS,

SCOTTS FIELD ROAD WAS A BIG

FIELD AND WOULD I LAY OUT IN THE

FIELD AND WATCH PLANES.

THERE WAS NO TRAFFIC.

THERE WAS NO GYM, NO MALL AND

ALSO ALONG WITH THAT WAS THIS

SORT OF VERY SMALL TOWN THING

THAT COULD BE NICE AT TIMES.

EVERYONE KNEW EVERYBODY AND NOT

ONLY DID THEY KNOW EVERYBODY BUT

EVERYBODY KNEW EVERYBODY'S

GRANDMOTHER AND EVERYBODY KNEW

EVERYBODY'S MOTHER.

>> Renee: YOU COULDN'T GET IN

TROUBLE WITHOUT...

>> YOU COULDN'T GET IN TROUBLE

EVER.

SO I ALWAYS TOLD MY DAUGHTER I

HAD TO BE MUCH SNEAKIER THAN

YOU.

YOU KNOW?

BUT NOW WHEN I GO BACK I'M JUST

ASTOUNDED.

I REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, IN THE

80s WHEN YOU WOULD FIRST START

SEEING IN WAL-MART PEOPLE WHO

LOOKED A LITTLE DIFFERENT,

RIGHT.

PEOPLE WHO HAD COME FROM OTHER

COUNTRIES, PEOPLE WHO WERE MAYBE

MUSLIM OR WHATEVER AND NOW, OF

COURSE, IT HAS GROWN TO BE SO

BIG.

I GO TO WAL-MART AND I DON'T

KNOW ANYBODY.

BUT.

>> Renee: BUT THEY ALL KNOW YOU

BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THE

DISTINGUISHED ALUMNI HALL OF

FAME WHERE YOU GRADUATED SO

THEY'RE VERY PROUD OF YOU AND

THE BOOK SAINT MONKEY, THE

SETTING IS MOUNT STERLING

KENTUCKY AND THEY'RE VERY PROUD

TO BE PART OF THIS FICTIONAL

SETTING SO A LOT OF FOLKS ARE

REALLY ROOTING FOR YOU AND VERY

PROUD OF YOUR SUCCESS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Renee: DID YOU EVER SEE THAT

COMING?

>> NO.

NO.

NEVER.

>> Renee: NEVER?

>> I HAD ALWAYS... I WOULDN'T

SAY I ALWAYS THOUGHT I WOULD BE

A WRITER BUT I ALWAYS DID WRITE

STORIES.

I WROTE SCREEN PLAYS WHEN I WAS

LITTLE, YOU KNOW, AND I KIND OF

GOT AWAY FROM THAT AS A TEEN

THOUGH AND THEN...

>> Renee: WHY IS THAT?

>> I THINK, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE

TELL YOUNG PEOPLE THAT THEY

CANNOT HAVE A SUSTAINABLE LIFE

IN THE ARTS, YOU KNOW, AND I

CERTAINLY WAS TOLD THAT OVER AND

OVER AGAIN THAT EVERY TIME I

WOULD SAY THEN I'LL GO TO LAW

SCHOOL.

PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT WAS A GREAT

IDEA.

>> Renee: SURE.

>> SO THAT'S WHAT I ENDED UP

DOING.

IT WASN'T UNTIL MUCH LATER THAT

I LEARNED FROM PEOPLE ALL AROUND

ME THAT, YES, YOU CAN HAVE A

SUSTAINABLE LIFE IN THE ARTS AND

YOU DON'T HAVE TO STARVE AND YOU

DON'T HAVE TO BE BEYONCE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN

BETWEEN.

>> Renee: A LOT OF THINGS IN

BETWEEN.

AND YOUR MOTHER WAS A HIGH

SCHOOL ENGLISH TEACHER, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> Renee: SO I'M SURE SHE HAD A

LIBRARY OF BOOKS FOR YOU AND

YOUR SISTER.

>> YES, AND SHE WOULD ALWAYS,

WHEN I WAS LITTLE, HAVE A... WE

HAD CONTACT PAPER AND WE WOULD

PUT THE PAPER IN AND STAPLE IT

AND MAKE LITTLE BOOKS AND

ILLUSTRATE IT OURSELVES.

>> Renee: WHO KNEW WOULD YOU

HAVE IT HARD BOUND A FEW DECADES

LATER.

>> MY FATHER WORKED AT GENERAL

ELECTRIC IN LOUISVILLE.

>> Renee: HE WOULD COMMUTE.

>> HE DID.

TWO HOURS SO I CAN'T BELIEVE IT

NOW.

BUT HE DID.

>> Renee: SO I IMAGINE THAT THE

EXPECTATIONS IN THE HOUSE WERE

PRETTY HIGH FOR YOU AND YOUR

SISTER.

YOUR SISTER ALSO WENT TO AN IVY

LEAGUE SCHOOL.

>> SHE WENT TO STANFORD.

>> Renee: AND WORKS FOR ANIMAL

RIGHTS GROUPS.

>> SHE DOES.

>> Renee: YOU ALL TOOK MORE

CREATIVE HUMANITARIAN PATHS.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS

SOMETHING THAT WAS ALWAYS KIND

OF STRESSED IN OUR HOUSE, TOO,

WAS THAT WE NEEDED TO GIVE BACK

TO THE WORLD, SO I HOPE WE ARE

BOTH DOING THAT.

I I KNOW SHE IS.

I HOPE I AM.

>> Renee: YOU ARE DOING THAT.

WHEN YOU WENT TO HARVARD, YOU

WENT THERE AT 16 AND WHEN I WAS

DOING SOME RESEARCH ABOUT YOU, I

RAN ACROSS AN ARTICLE THAT "THE

WASHINGTON POST" RECENTLY WROTE

ABOUT AN INCIDENT AT HARVARD

RELATING TO THE CONFEDERATE

FLAG.

NOW YOUR FRIEND FRANCIS HAS SAID

I REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT SHE

WAS GOING TO BE ON ONE OF THOSE

MORNING TALK SHOWS ON SUNDAY

MORNING BUT THEN THE PRESIDENT,

WHO WAS RONALD REAGAN AT THE

TIME WAS SHOT, AND THAT

INTERRUPTED THE STORY THAT THEY

WERE GOING TO DO ABOUT WHAT

HAPPENED AT HARVARD AT THE TIME.

SHE REMEMBERED.

BUT TO GET BACK TO CIRCA 2015,

"THE WASHINGTON POST" ARTICLE

WAS HEADLINED.

THIS WAS JULY, WHEN THE

CONFEDERATE FLAG FLEW AT HARVARD

AND IT RAN SHORTLY AFTER THE

SHOOTING AT THE CHARLESTON NINE

BUT IT DETAILS WHEN A STUDENT

HUNG A CONFEDERATE FLAG OUTSIDE

OF HER DORM ROOM IN 1991 AND

THEN IT SAYS AND WHEN A JACINDA

TOWNSEND RESPONDED.

THEN THAT REALLY IGNITED A

CONTROVERSY.

SO TELL US ABOUT THAT INCIDENT

AND WHAT YOUR RESPONSE WAS.

>> SURE.

SO SHE HAD HUNG THIS CONFEDERATE

FLAG AND SHE WAS CLAIMING THAT

IT WAS NOT ABOUT RACISM, THAT IT

WAS ABOUT HER SOUTHERN HERITAGE

AND PRIDE, AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW,

IT WAS REALLY HURTFUL TO A LOT

OF PEOPLE THAT THIS WAS HANGING

IN A PLACE THAT MADE US FEEL A

LITTLE BIT UNSAFE FRANKLY.

AND AS I HAD SAID AT THE TIME I

ASSOCIATE THAT WITH CLAN RALLIES

AND I DON'T WANT TO WALK BY AND

SEE THAT EVERY DAY AND I SPRAY

PAINTED A SWAS CA AND PAINTED

RACISM.

IT FORCED A MUCH BIGGER DIALOGUE

BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT

EQUATE THE TWO AND THAT WAS

TAKEN MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY BY THE

COLLEGE ADMINISTRATION.

>> Renee: YOUR ACTION WITH THE

SWASTIKA WAS TAKEN MORE

SERIOUSLY THAN THE CONFEDERATE

FLAG.

>> AND I WAS ENCOURAGED TO TAKE

IT DOWN AND I KIND OF HELD FAST

FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

FINALLY IT BEGAN SO DIVISIVE

THAT I FELT LIKE I HAD MADE MY

POINT.

>> Renee: HAD YOU NOT DONE IT IT

MAYBE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE

UNIVERSITY CONFRONT THESE

SYMBOLS AND WHAT IT MEANS TO A

MINORITY POPULATION ON CAMPUS

PAYING THE SAME MONEY TO GO

THERE AS THE ONE HANGING THE

CONFEDERATE FLAG.

GIVEN THE YEAR THAT 2015 HAS

BEEN SO FAR WITH NOT JUST THE

CONFEDERATE FLAG TAKEN DOWN OFF

THE CAPITOL GROUNDS BUT THE

DEBATE ACROSS THE NATION, WE ARE

HAVING IN KENTUCKY WE ARE HAVING

IT ABOUT THE JEFFERSON DAVIS

STATUE INSIDE THE ROW TUNDA AND

IT WILL REMAIN.

WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THE

CONFEDERATE FLAG AND WHAT IT

STANDS FOR AND STILL WHAT IT

SYMBOLIZES TO AFRICAN AMERICANS

AND THOSE OF AFRICAN DESCENT.

>> I'M LESS CONFLICTED THAN I

WAS THEN.

I'VE LIVED A LOT OF PLACES WHERE

PEOPLE WOULD NEVER HANG THAT,

WHERE PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE

TO OTHERS FEELINGS AND, YOU

KNOW, I FEEL NOW AS AN ADULT

EVEN MORE STRONGLY THAT WHEN

SOMEONE TELLS YOU THAT AN ACTION

HURTS THEM FOR YOU TO THEN SAY

BUT IS A LITTLE STRANGE.

>> Renee: IF YOU ARE JUST

JOINING US, WE ARE HAVING A

DELIGHTFUL CONVERSATION WITH

JACINDA TOWNSEND AUTHOR OF AIN'T

MONKEY YOU CAN GET AT ANY

BOOKSTORE NEAR YOU.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE OTHER

PARTS OF YOUR LIFE BEFORE YOU

BECAME A NOVELIST.

AS I SAID, YOU WANT TO HARVARD.

YOU GOT A POLITICAL SCIENCE

DEGREE, A LAW DEGREE FROM DUKE.

YOU WORKED AS A REPORTER.

YOU WORKED AS A LAWYER.

SO DID JOURNALISM SIDE OF YOU,

DID THAT NOT ALLOW TO YOU

EXERCISE MAYBE THIS MORE

CREATIVE SIDE THAT YOU ARE ABLE

TO EXPLORE NOW BECAUSE LIFE CAN

BE STRANGER THAN FICTION.

>> YES, AND I THINK IN SOME WAYS

I WAS A TERRIBLE JOURNALIST

BECAUSE OF THAT.

I WOULD CALL PEOPLE AND BE

INTERVIEWING THEM FOR MY STORY

AND MY MIND WOULD GO TO ALL

THESE OTHER PLACES, YOU KNOW,

LIKE BUT WHAT DID YOUR MOTHER

THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> Renee: MAYBE NOT ANYWHERE

RELATED TO THE STORY, RIGHT?

>> EXACTLY.

WHAT I WROTE ON TV, YOU KNOW ON

TV IT HAS TO BE SHORT AND SWEET

AND COULD I NEVER QUITE REALLY

DO THAT.

AND IT'S FUNNY.

SO WHEN I WENT AND GOT MY

M.F.A., THAT'S ALL ABOUT WRITING

SHORT STORIES AND I WOULD WRITE

A 20 PAGE STORY AND PEOPLE WOULD

BE LIKE...

>> Renee: THAT'S NOT A SHORT

STORY.

>> THIS IS LIKE A 300 PAGE

PIECE, YOU KNOW.

>> Renee: MFA, MASTERS IN FINE

ARTS FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT KNOW.

WHEN YOU DABLED AT THAT IN DUKE,

YOU TOOK A CREATIVE WRITING

CLASS AND THAT SPARKED THE LOVE

YOU HAD AS A CHILD AND THAT SET

YOU ON YOUR COURSE, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> Renee: YOU KNEW HAD YOU TO

RETURN.

>> I DID.

>> Renee: IOWA WORK WRITERS

WORKSHOP, THAT IS NOT FOR A

SLOP.

THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST

INCREDIBLE CREATIVE WRITING

PROGRAMS IN THE NATION.

SO FOR TO YOU GET THERE AND DO

AS WELL AS YOU DID I'M SURE YOU

LEARNED A LOT FROM THE ROOKIE

THAT YOU WERE WHEN YOU GOT

THERE.

>> I WAS A BABY WHEN I GOT

THERE.

>> Renee: HOW OLD WERE YOU THEN?

>> I WAS PRETTY OLD BECAUSE I

HAD... NOT PRETTY OLD.

>> Renee: RELATIVELY FROM THE

16, YEAH, AT HARVARD.

>> I WAS 27 WHEN I WENT THERE.

SO I HAD LIVED IN NEW YORK FOR A

WHILE.

I WAS OUT OF LAW SCHOOL BY THEN.

I HAD...

>> Renee: WERE YOU PRACTICING

LAW?

>> I WAS.

I WAS PRACTICING LAW WHEN I GOT

THE LETTER FROM IOWA AND I

THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD... IF

I STAYED AND DID THIS FOR

ANOTHER COUPLE OF YEARS,

FINANCIALLY I WOULD BE SITTING

PRETTY BUT I JUST COULDN'T.

I REALLY NEEDED TO GO DO THIS.

I'M SO GLAD I DID.

HAVE I NO REGRETS WHATSOEVER.

I WAS A BABY WHEN I GOT THERE.

I HAD TEACHERS THAT WERE AMAZING

ON EVERY LEVEL FROM WRITING TO

THE BIG PICTURE OF THE STORY.

IOWA CITY IS ONE OF THESE PLACE

WHERE PEOPLE REALLY CARE ABOUT

WORDS.

THERE ARE LOTS OF READERS AND

WRITERS COMING IN.

IT WAS AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE.

>> Renee: NOW THAT YOU ARE IN

THE TEACHER'S ROLE, I'VE READ

ONE THING I HEARD YOU SAY, DON'T

WRITE LIKE ME.

WRITE LIKE YOURSELF.

IT'S HARD FOR AWFUL US BECAUSE

WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO WE ADMIRE.

I ADMIRE YOUR WRITING, THE VIVID

INSTRUCTION YOU GIVE, THE DICKS,

THE WAY IT FLOWS, THE IF I COULD

WRITE LIKE THAT BUT HOW DO YOU

NOT TRANSLATE TO LET ME COPY

THAT.

THAT'S PRETTY HARD TO LEARN TO

DO, TO FIND YOUR OWN VOICE.

>> YES.

MY STUDENTS ARE NERVOUS ABOUT

THEIR EXPERIMENTAL URGES.

I SAY GO FOR IT AND I WORK

WITHIN THEIR FRAMEWORK AND SAY

WELL, I THINK FOR WHAT YOU ARE

DOING THIS IS MAYBE NOT WORKING

SO WELL.

>> Renee: IS THERE ANY WRONG WAY

TO WRITE?

>> I ALWAYS SAY I CAN'T TELL YOU

WHAT TO DO.

I CAN TELL YOU WHAT IS NOT

WORKING THAT YOU ARE DOING.

>> Renee: RIGHT, SURE.

FOR YOU, WHAT GOES INTO MAKING

THE NEXT GREAT NOVEL?

WHAT IS EITHER THE PROCESS, THE

INGREDIENTS.

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU FINISH

SAINT MONKEY, HOW DID YOU KNOW

OKAY, THIS IS PRETTY GOOD.

THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD SAY IN

BOWLING GREEN DAG GONE GOOD.

>> I WAS AFRAID AT THE END.

I THINK THOUGH THERE IS A POINT

AND THAT'S SUCH A GREAT

QUESTION.

THERE WAS A POINT FOR ME THAT

HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH

TECHNIQUE AND HAS TO DO WITH

THIS BENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THE

WORLD.

AND I DON'T HAVE IT EVERY DAY, I

REALLY DON'T BUT SOME DAYS I'M

REALLY IN THERE WITH IT AND

THOSE ARE THE DAYS I TRY TO WORK

AND CREATE AND THEN ON THE OTHER

DAYS I MAYBE EDIT, YOU KNOW.

BUT I'M WORKING ON A NOVEL NOW

AND I HAVE A PLOT BUT I'M STILL

AT THE POINT WHERE I THINK THE

PLOT IS LAME.

>> Renee: INTERNATIONAL

ADOPTION?

>> THAT'S THE ONE I FINISHED.

THIS IS ONE WHERE THIS WOMAN HAS

A RUNNING CRAIG'S LIST AD AND

SHE BUYS BOOKS AND SHE MEETS ALL

THESE PEOPLE.

SO IT'S ABOUT THAT.

>> Renee: THAT DOESN'T SOUND

BAD.

>> WELL THANK YOU.

>> Renee: I'D READ THAT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Renee: BEFORE SAINT MONKEY

THERE WAS A MANUSCRIPT THAT

DIDN'T QUITE FLY AND YOU TALKED

ABOUT THIS THAT THAT WORK WAS

DEEMED TOO GRIP.

YOU SAID THE WORDS IT DIDN'T

HAVE ENOUGH AIR.

THAT WAS AN INTERESTING TURN OF

A PHRASE.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU'VE

GIVEN AIR TO A WORK AND THAT

IT'S NOT SO GRIM AND HEAVY THAT

IT BOGS THE READER DOWN TOO

MUCH?

>> RIGHT.

I TELL MY STUDENTS THIS IS A

TRUE STORY.

THERE WAS A BRIDE WHO HAD A SIX

FOOT CAKE.

SO SHE GOT UP ON THIS LADDER TO

CUT THE CAKE AND THE CAKE FELL

OVER BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE

ENOUGH AIR FOR WHAT IT WAS, YOU

KNOW.

AND I THINK NOVELS, ESPECIALLY

NOVELS ARE SO SIMILAR BECAUSE

THEY'RE SO, SO WHEN YOU PUT AIR

IN, YOU PUT A CHARACTER SORT OF

FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THE WORLD

OR YOU PUT THEIR SENSE OF HUMOR

OR YOU PUT SOME PLOT THAT IS

JUST A LITTLE MORE AVAILABLE FOR

SORT OF LIGHT HEARTEDNESS

BECAUSE IT CAN'T BE ALL

STRUGGLE.

IT CAN'T BE ALL PAIN.

I THINK A LOT OF YOUNGER WRITERS

PARTICULARLY THINK THAT'S WHAT

IT MEANS TO BE A SERIOUS WRITER

IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE

CANCER FOR 20 YEARS OR, YOU

KNOW, DIE IN CAR WRECKS AND NOT

AT ALL.

>> Renee: BECAUSE THIS BOOK DOES

HAVE SOME VERY COMPLEX ISSUES

AND HEAVYWEIGHTY ISSUES.

SEGREGATION, SEXISM, POVERTY,

ALL OF THAT IS CONFRONTED BUT

THERE ARE SOME VERY LIGHT

MOMENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, TERN

YOUR FROWN UPSIDE DOWN.

THAT'S PROBABLY VERY APPEALING

TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, AS YOU SAY,

GIVING IT AIR.

SO YOU LEARNED FROM THAT

FIRST...

>> I DID.

AND I'LL TELL YOU, THERE IS A

SCENE IN HERE, THIS ISN'T TOO

MUCH OF A SPOILER ALERT BUT

THERE IS A SCENE IN HERE THAT I

LAUGHED EVERY SINGLE TIME I

REVISED IT.

I LAUGHED MORE AND MORE AND

THAT'S WHEN SHE BRINGS HER

HUSBAND HOME.

SO I LAUGH PRETTY HARD.

>> Renee: AND WHERE DO HAVE YOU

TO GO TO GO FROM HEAVY TO LIGHT

AND TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE

MAKING A TRANSITION THAT MAKES

SENSE?

>> USUALLY ITS IN DIALOGUE WHERE

THE LIGHT HEARTEDNESS COMES FROM

AND THE HUMOR.

I THINK, I MEAN IN REAL LIFE A

LOT OF... DURING A LOT OF SORT

OF NORMAL CONVERSATION PEOPLE

SAY THINGS THAT ARE JUST

HILARIOUS.

>> Renee: AND IN HERE BECAUSE

YOU TALK ABOUT SHORT STORIES AND

THEY'RE SHORTER THAN THE 20

PAGES AS SHE SAID BEFORE THAT

WRITING IN SHORT CHAPTERS REALLY

HELPS BECAUSE THEY COULD BE

TAKEN JUST AS A SHORT STORY ON

THEIR OWN, MANY OF THESE.

WOULD THAT BE ADVICE THAT WOULD

YOU GIVE TO YOUNG WRITERS IS,

YOU NO, GO SHORTER?

I ALSO REMEMBER SEEING YOU TALK

ABOUT YOU WOULD WRITE A PAGE,

TAKE THAT OUT, EDIT THE PAGE AND

THEN KEEP GOING.

AND HOW EITHER PRODUCTIVE OR

UNPRODUCTIVE WAS THAT PROCESS

FOR YOU?

>> SO A LOT OF THE CHAPTER

LENGTH HAS TO DO WITH PROCESS.

WHEN I BEFORE, PROBABLY ABOUT 15

YEARS AGO WHEN I JUST GOT OUT OF

GRADUATE SCHOOL I WAS STILL

DOING THIS THING.

I WOULD PRINT OUT WHAT I HAD

WRITTEN TWO OR THREE PAGES AND

THEN GO BACK AND REVISE IT AND

DO IT AGAIN AND GO BACK AND DO

IT AGAIN AND REVISE IT AND THEN

I DID A FULBRIGHT IN AFRICA AND

ONE OF THE VERY FIRST THINGS

THAT HAPPENED THE VERY FIRST

WEEK I WAS THERE WAS THAT MY

PRINTER BLEW UP BECAUSE I DIDN'T

PLUG THE CONVERTER IN WITH IT.

THAT ACTUALLY FORCED ME TO STOP

DOING THAT; TO STOP REWRITING

AND REWRITING AND JUST KEEP

GOING AND IT WAS THE BEST THING

EVER BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I DO.

THAT BEING SAID, ONE OF THE

REASONS THE CHAPTERS ARE SO

SHORT IS BECAUSE IT MAKES IT SO

MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO REVISE

THEM IN ONE SITTING AND KEEP A

SCENE SORT OF SUSTAINED IN MY

HEAD.

>> Renee: SURE.

RIGHT, AND YOU HAVE TWO KIDS TO

CHASE AFTER.

THAT'S PROBABLY A BETTER

APPROACH ANYWAY.

>> YES, YES, YES.

I AM A BIG BELIEVER IN I WRITE

EVERY DAY NO MATTER WHAT.

BUT THEN THAT MEANS SOMETIMES

I'M WRITING WHILE THEY'RE IN

THEIR PIANO LESSON OR SKATING OR

WHATEVER, SO THAT ALSO HELPS MY

PROCESS THAT THESE CHAPTERS ARE

SHORT ENOUGH THAT I CAN ACTUALLY

VISIT WITH THEM DURING A

SITTING.

>> Renee: AND HOW ARE THEY

INFORMING YOUR APPROACH NOW OR

EVEN YOUR TOPICS OR WHAT YOU

THINK ABOUT IN YOUR WRITING?

>> I WRITE SO MUCH MORE NOW

ABOUT MOTHERHOOD THAN I DID

BEFORE BECAUSE IT HAS CHANGED

ME.

IT HAS CHANGED ME AS A PERSON.

CHANGED THE WAY I LOOK AT THE

WORLD, YOU KNOW, AND SO I WRITE

A LOT ABOUT THAT.

>> Renee: SO TELL US QUICKLY

ABOUT SAINT MONKEY AND WHERE THE

NAME CAME FROM EFFICIENT OF ALL

AND THE TWO MAIN CHARACTERS

AUDREY AND CAROLINE.

>> SO AUDREY IS A DREAMY YOUNG

WOMAN WHO WANTS TO BE A PIANIST

AND SHE IS A BRILLIANT PIANIST

AND CAROLINE IS THE MORE CAUSE

TICK CAWFTIC BITTER YOUNG WOMAN.

CAROLINE HAS DREAMS OF GOING TO

HOLLYWOOD BUT ARE CUT SHORT

BECAUSE A TRAGEDY HAPPENS

AND

SHE CAN'T LEAVE HER HOMETOWN AND

SHE HAS TO WATCH HER BEST FRIEND

LIVE THE DREAM AND THERE IS A

SCENE IN THE TITLE CHAPTER THAT

AWED CAROLINE'S GRANDMOTHER SAYS

SHE'S A MONKEY AND SHE SAID NO,

SHE'S A SAINT.

THE WAYS WE SEE PEOPLE AND THE

WAY THAT WE LOVE PEOPLE DESPITE

WHAT IS MONKEYISH ABOUT THEM,

DESPITE THEIR SHORTCOMINGS, THE

WAY WE KIND OF FORGIVE THAT AND

LEARN TO LOVE THEM ANYWAY.

>> Renee: AND AS I MENTIONED,

YOUR USE OF THE DICTION AND

VERNACULAR FROM THAT ERA AND

THAT TIME.

SEAMLESS IS NOT THE RIGHT WORD

BUT CLOSE TO PERFECT IN THE WAY

THAT MANY OF US GREW UP RURAL

AND MAYBE NOT IN THE 1950s,

I'M NOT THAT OLD BUT I

DEFINITELY KNOW PEOPLE WHO SPOKE

IN THOSE TONES AND VER VERNACULR

BUT GETTING THAT DOWN IS PRETTY

TOUGH TO DO.

I WOULD THINK IT WAS A

CHALLENGE.

>> MORE OF A CHALLENGE THAN I

THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BECAUSE I

HAD MY GRANDMOTHER KIND OF SPOKE

THE WAY CAROLINE SPEAKS.

SHE PASSED AWAY BEFORE I EVEN

STARTED WRITING THIS AND I HAD

THAT IN MY EAR.

I REMEMBERED IT.

BUT WRITING IT IS A DIFFERENT...

I ACTUALLY HAD A CHART, FOR

INSTANCE, I HAD A CHART ABOUT

WEREN'T AND WARRANT.

YOU USE THEM AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

I KEPT CHARTS.

>> Renee: EVEN THE WORD NARY.

WE NEVER HEAR THAT UNTIL I GO

HOME AND I MIGHT HEAR IT.

I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO READ A

BRIEF PASSAGE SO PEOPLE GET A

FLAVOR OF WHAT SAINT MONKEY IS

LIKE.

>> THIS IS FROM AUDREY'S

PERSPECTIVE.

FINALLY COMCOME APRIL THE WIND

BLOWS DOWN FROM THE MOUNTAIN AND

STARTS TO WEAR WARM AGAIN ON

PEOPLE'S BARE ARMS AND GRAND PAP

AND I SIT OUT ON THE PORCH IN

THE PUNCHED IRON CHAIRS AND PLAY

CHECKERS.

GRAND PAP IS A MASTER, A WIZARD

WHO CAN BEAT ANYONE IN THE

COUNTY AND WHEN I COME NEAR

WINNING HE UPSETS THE CHECKER

BOARD.

AFTERWARDS HE DOESN'T APOLOGIZE

OR EVEN SPEAKS.

HE STEPS OFF THE PORCH, BEND

OVER THE GRASS AND PICKS UP

THREE BLACK PIECES THAT HAVE

LANDED THERE, A CONSOLATION

SPELLING HIS ANGER.

HE SCRAPES THE REMAINING 21 OFF

THE PORCH AND THEN TO INTO HIS

CARPETED BOX WHILE I WIGGLE

MYSELF INTO MY SWING AND FINGER

A BIT OF RUST GROWING ON THE

CHAIN.

RIGHT NICE BREEZE IS SAIL IS ALL

HE SAYS.

HE PUSHES US BACK AND FORTH WITH

HIS FEET WHILE WE WATCH THE SUN

SINK LIKE A TANGERINE BEHIND THE

TREES.

>> Renee: I LOVE THAT.

LIKE A TANGERINE BEHIND THE

TREES AND THIS, ALL OF THAT, THE

IMAGERY THAT YOU EVOKE, I DON'T

KNOW, I THINK I'VE HEARD YOU

BEING COMPARED TO TONY MORRISON

A LITTLE BIT, AND I KNOW THAT'S

GOT TO BE HIGH FLATTER.

>> YES.

>> Renee: YOUR LANGUAGE LIKE

BELOVED WHICH MANY OF US HAVE

READ THAT IS INTRICATE, COMPLEX,

MAKES YOU THINK, MAKES YOU

REWEED IT A FEW TIMES.

BUT YOU GET SO INVOLVED WITH

THESE CHARACTERS THAT YOU LIVE

THROUGH THEM, PARTICULARLY IF

YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF CONNECTION

TO THAT LIFE.

>> YES.

>> Renee: IS THAT WHAT YOU HOPE

YOUR WORK ACCOMPLISHES?

EVEN OUTSIDE OF THOSE WHO, IN

KENTUCKY, HAVE LIVED HERE, THAT

THEY CAN RELATE TO SAINT MONK

NECESSITY SOME ASPECT?

>> I DID AND BECAUSE I LOVE MY

HOMELAND SO MUCH, YOU KNOW, SO

IN SOME WAYS IT IS A LOVE LETTER

TO KENTUCKIANS PARTICULARLY THIS

WAY OF LIFE THAT HAS SORT OF BAN

BEGUN TO PASS AWAY WITH THE

PEOPLE WHO ARE PASSING AWAY.

I WANTED TO CAPTURE WHAT IS SO

BEAUTIFUL ABOUT THIS LAND AND

THESE PEOPLE.

>> Renee: THESE YOUNG LADIES,

UNDERSTAND THEIR IDENTITIES AND

I WON'T GIVE IT AWAY, BUT TO

UNDERSTAND WHO THEY ARE, HOW

THEY GET TO LEARN WHO THEY ARE,

EITHER BY STAYING WHERE THEY ARE

OR GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE, THAT IS

A LIFE LESSON IN AND OF ITSELF

AND SO YOU REALLY FEEL THAT,

PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU COME TO A

CERTAIN AGE IN YOUR LIFE.

YOU THINK, I GET THAT AT A

DEEPER LEVEL THAN I WOULD HAD I

BEEN THOSE CHARACTERS AGES.

I THANK YOU FOR THAT.

THANK YOU FOR THAT SHARED

EXPERIENCE.

>> THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

>> Renee: I HIGHLY RECOMMEND

SAINT MONKEY BY JACINDA

TOWNSEND.

YOU CAN GET IT ONLINE AT A LOCAL

BOOKSTORE NEAR YOU.

I HOPE YOU'LL SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL

BOOKSTORES.

YOU IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE

ABOUT JACINDA TOWNSEND AND HER

WORK LOG ON TO OUR WEBSITE AND

MAKE SURE YOU FOLLOW ME ON

FACEBOOK, TWITTER, INSTAGRAM AND

BLOG PROMPTER.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR

WATCHING.

TAKE REALLY GOOD CARE AND WE'LL

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.