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♪

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Welcome to This Week in 
South Carolina. I'm Gavin

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Jackson. This week Senator 
Lindsey Graham's

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Judiciary Committee held 
hearings on the

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nomination of Judge Amy 
Coney Barrett to the Supreme

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Court. We talk with Kirk 
Randazzo of USC for more

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about how those hearings 
went. Also, we speak with

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Gibbs Knotts. He's a professor 
of political science at

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the College of Charleston 
to hear about the

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record breaking fundraising 
going on in the U.S.

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Senate race. Now, more 
from this week.

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Days ago, 
the World Food Program

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run by former 
governor David Beasley

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won the 2020 
Nobel Peace Prize. For its

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efforts to combat hunger, 
for its contribution to

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bettering conditions for 
peace in conflict

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affected areas, Beasley 
received word of the

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award while traveling for 
the W.F.P. in Niger.

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It's because of the W.F.P. 
family.

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They're out 
there in the most

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difficult complex places 
in the world whether it's

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war, conflict, climate 
extremes. It doesn't

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matter. They're out there 
and they deserve this

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award. And wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! 
At the start

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of the week, the Supreme 
Court confirmation

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hearings of Judge Amy 
Coney Barrett got under

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way with questioning 
concluding on Wednesday.

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And Senator Lindsey Graham's 
Judiciary Committee.

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The hearing's had a cordial 
tone in the socially

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distanced committee room. 
Republicans like Graham

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heralded Barents pro life 
views. While Democrats

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weren't able to get Barrett 
to make open declarations

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about her beliefs, rather 
saying that they won't

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influence her ability to 
interpret and apply the

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law in the originalism 
in textualism

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interpretation 
methodologies she

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subscribes to. But I want 
to be careful to say that

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if I'm confirmed, you 
would not be getting

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Justice Scalia, you would 
be getting Justice Barrett.

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And that's so because

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originalists don't always 
agree and neither do

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textualists. Graham even 
mentioned during the

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hearing about the record 
breaking fundraising of

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his opponent. Democrat 
Jamie Harrison shattered

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records with 57 
million dollars raised in

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the third quarter alone, 
something no Senate

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candidate has ever done 
before. Graham raised just

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half of that at 
28 million dollars,

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a senate GOP record.

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Meanwhile, thousands of people 
continue to cast in

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person and mail in 
absentee ballots during

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the second week of voting. 
We spoke to some voters

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in Jasper County. I voted 
for Donald Trump

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I think it takes a 
businessman to make the

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economy better. And 
I like what he's done so far.

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I'd like to see 
everyone just kind of

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move forward and give 
them an actual chance if

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he gets four more years.

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The country's in great

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turmoil. It needs to be a 
reckoning and needs to be

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a coming together of both 
parties for the benefit of

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the people of the 
United States. You know a

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lot of people don't like 
his mouth. I do. Cause he

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doesn't take anything, like 
somebody else would.

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He stands up to everybody 
and he tells it the way it is.

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Straight out. That's my 
personal opinion. As the

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second week of voting 
comes to a close, more

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than 358 
thousand absentee

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ballots have been cast, 
putting the state on

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track to shatter its 
2016 record of

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503 thousand ballots 
cast absentee.

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Now, to discuss the latest

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on the confirmation 
hearings of Judge Amy

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Coney Barrett and the 
Senate fight for the

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Senate race. I'm joined by 
Kirk Randazzo.

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He's an expert on 
judicial politics and the

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Chairman of the Political 
Science Department

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at the University 
of South Carolina,

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Professor, welcome back. 
Thank you for the

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invitation. Appreciate being 
here. So, professor we're

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taping on Thursday 
morning. All the

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questioning of Judge Amy 
Coney Barrett has already

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taken place by the 
senators.

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There were a lot 
of attempts to

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try and pin 
her down on multiple

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topics, multiple hot 
button issues. I want to

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get your opinion on what you 
saw this week. If we

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really got any insight 
further on on what she

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stands for what she 
believes, whether

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personally or you know on 
the bench.

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Yeah, I think 
what we saw this week is

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exactly what everybody 
expected going into this,

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like you said democratic 
senators were going to

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try and pin her down on 
particular topics,

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potential cases. And she 
was going to be as

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evasive as possible and 
I think she did a

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remarkable job at dodging 
questions. She did not

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want to answer. But I 
think at the end of the

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day, we didn't really 
learn anything new and

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that just means that 
everyone's

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sort of suspicions about 
her temperament, her

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judicial philosophy and 
more importantly, how

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her appointment might 
change the Supreme Court.

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I think those suspicions 
are still out there.

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So when it comes to these 
hearings, if we're never

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really gonna get into 
the meat of

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some of these things 
with these judges.

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She's not the only 
one to have done this.

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To not really show 
her hand too much.

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It's kind of what 
they need to do.

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They're kind of protected 
in some respects.

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So, what's the purpose 
of these hearings, I guess

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when it comes down to it if 
we're not gonna get really into

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some of the thoughts? Well you 
know it's somewhat unfortunate

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that Judge Barrett and 
some others before her

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have invoked Ruth Bader 
Ginsburg in this so

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called Ginsburg rule 
about not commenting on

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issues. What Ginsburg 
actually refused to

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discuss were cases that 
had already been appealed

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to the Supreme Court and 
senators were trying to

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pin down how she might 
rule on those specific

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appeals. Ginsburg was 
actually very revealing

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about her overall 
judicial philosophy, how

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she felt about prescedent, 
how she felt about

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issues that didn't have 
any pending litigation.

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and you know 
appointees or nominees

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since her have kind of 
taken those words out of

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context and sort of 
taken things to an extreme.

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And right now I 
think we have basically

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confirmation hearings 
that look more like a

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show or a circus kind of 
act than anything

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designed to reveal 
matters of substance.

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I guess we maybe 
even get some insight on

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their temperament at 
least.

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Do we even get any of that? 
Or did anything

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stand out of note this 
week. I think

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we got 
well depending on how you

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may want to phrase it, we 
either got more or less

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information about her 
temperament than say

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Brett Kavanaugh. I mean we 
we saw in the Kavanaugh

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confirmation that his 
temper flew and and was

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released relatively 
easily. Judge Barrett is

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much more measured in her 
response, much more

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calculating and strategic 
in terms, not just of what

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she says but how she says 
things.

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And so 
whether this is the

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approach that she would 
use if confirmed to the

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to the court, I think it's 
probably relatively safe

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to say that the answer is 
yes.

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but where I think again 
the concerns we may lay

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involved her judicial 
philosophy this notion of

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originalism and what that 
might actually mean for

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individual rights. 
And one of her biggest

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proponents obviously 
Senate Judiciary Chairman,

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Lindsey Graham, our state 
senator. Big cheerleader there,

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really wanted to make sure 
this went through we

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are going through. Sounds 
like they'll have a

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confirmation vote next week. 
What are your thoughts on

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how he handled this 
process and maybe some

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comments we heard from 
him. He was even

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trying to interject some 
South Carolina politics

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in there when we're talking 
about the Affordable

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Care Act. He even 
brought up the

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fundraising by his opponet Jamie 
Harrison, which was kind of

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odd because it 
didn't have much to do -

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I don't think they were 
talking

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about Citizens United but that's 
always right there too.

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What were your thoughts 
on how Senator Graham

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handled this this whole 
confirmation process?

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There were times 
that Senator Graham had

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some comments that that 
were a bit confusing for me.

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One, right off the bat, he

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tried to sort of replay 
some recent history and

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he lamented that the fact 
that these confirmations

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used to be bipartisan, 
that Ginsburg herself

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received 97 votes,

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that Scalia's 
confirmation was

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unanimous. And he 
tried to use that as a

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way to sort of lament 
at the current

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state of affairs, not 
necessarily realizing

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that the current state of 
affairs is really the

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result of some brazenly 
partisan politics being

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played by members of the 
Senate from both parties,

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not just from Republicans, 
although the Republicans

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I think you know they're 
the current majority.

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And I think they bear 
responsibility for the

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current situation. 
But some of the other

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aspects that the Graham 
tried to bring up that

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weren't necessarily 
necessarily related to

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Judge Barrett, like the 
Affordable Care Act and

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the fact that South 
Carolina is not getting

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money. But you know the 
states of California,

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Texas, New York are getting 
a vast share of money to

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then have another 
senator come back and say well

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you know that's because 
South Carolina decided

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not to opt in to the 
Medicaid expansion.

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Yeah, I think Lindsey 
has been bringing some

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anecdotes into this 
process that are probably

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best left alone. And that 
doesn't even mention the

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the gaffe that he had 
yesterday when he was

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talking about the good 
old days of segregation,

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even though I think he 
meant that tongue in

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cheek and was very 
sarcastic,

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given the current 
environment and

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the political protests 
that have been going on.

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Those comments as 
sarcastic as they might be,

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sound incredibly tone 
deaf to people who are

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struggling for 
some kind of recognition

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of their rights. 
And I'm surprised that

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Senator Graham sort of 
went down those paths.

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Yeah, you're talking about 
that that comment he made,

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like you said, 
sarcastically that's what

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he says it was, even 
though it was

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really pretty straightforward. 
We know him to be sarcastic

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of course. But that also 
came after you know last

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week during that forum. It 
was a debate, turned into

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a forum when he mentioned 
about, if you're

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black and conservative, 
you can go anywhere.

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It was a longer statement, 
obviously that

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was about seven seconds out of 
about a minute forty long

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discussion about you know 
conservatism and

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being black and in 
South Carolina, the nation.

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But that was the clip 
that stuck just like this

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is the clip that is 
sticking too. And I'm

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assuming that Jamie Harrison's 
just gonna go

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and raise more 
money off of this.

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We've been seeing him be able 
to use these

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viral moments to his advantage. 
And you know again this

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is something that has 
garnered millions of views,

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thousands of tweets 
and relikes and likes.

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So, I'm just wondering, you 
know, did this campaigning

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effort, you know, this 
this attempt to try

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and campaign at the 
same time as

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hold these hearings, seems like 
it's backfired a little bit.

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This is going 
to be the

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biggest take away at the 
moment. Yeah, and this

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was something that we 
talked about when when we

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had our conversation, 
previously. The fact that

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we're holding these 
confirmation hearings in

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the middle of a campaign, 
you know first of all

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this this part is 
unprecedented. We've had

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situations actually over 
a dozen, where vacancies

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have occurred in an 
election year and a

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00:11:48,474 --> 00:11:51,377
confirmation has gone 
through.

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00:11:51,477 --> 00:11:55,648
But prior to Judge Barrett's 
nomination, none of those

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00:11:55,748 --> 00:12:00,252
confirmations have ever 
happened past July. And so

247
00:12:00,352 --> 00:12:03,022
here we are now in 
October, just a couple

248
00:12:03,122 --> 00:12:07,226
weeks away from election 
day and everybody, Lindsey

249
00:12:07,326 --> 00:12:10,362
Graham included really 
should be out on the

250
00:12:10,463 --> 00:12:14,400
campaign trail, not 
necessarily in a Senate

251
00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:17,403
chamber doing a 
confirmation. And as you

252
00:12:17,503 --> 00:12:21,207
see his words are being 
used against him.

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00:12:21,307 --> 00:12:25,077
In a campaign, whenever you can 
get your opponent's words

254
00:12:25,177 --> 00:12:29,014
to speak for themselves, 
in a way that puts your

255
00:12:29,115 --> 00:12:32,785
opponent in a bad light, 
that's really political

256
00:12:32,885 --> 00:12:35,321
gold, right there. And I 
think Jamie Harrison has

257
00:12:35,421 --> 00:12:40,626
been very smart, very 
savvy, very quick to jump

258
00:12:40,726 --> 00:12:43,863
on those moments. And 
here's yet another one

259
00:12:43,963 --> 00:12:47,066
that Lindsey just added 
to that pot. Yeah and

260
00:12:47,166 --> 00:12:49,702
you already saw that with his 
previous statements on

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00:12:49,802 --> 00:12:51,570
you know court 
appointments during election

262
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:53,439
years, as well. 
Hold me to my words.

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00:12:53,539 --> 00:12:56,609
Hold me to it. Stop the tape. 
And "mark my words." Exactly!

264
00:12:56,709 --> 00:12:58,377
Professor, we have less 
than a minute left.

265
00:12:58,477 --> 00:13:00,346
I want your thoughts on just 
where this process

266
00:13:00,446 --> 00:13:02,314
goes from here at this point. 
We don't have

267
00:13:02,414 --> 00:13:04,583
judicial filibusters 
anymore after 2017.

268
00:13:04,683 --> 00:13:07,186
What's it gonna 
be like? We have a vote

269
00:13:07,286 --> 00:13:09,321
scheduled for the 22nd. 
What do you see

270
00:13:09,421 --> 00:13:11,490
going forward? Can 
Democrats do anything to

271
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:13,225
try to hold this up. We're 
three weeks,

272
00:13:13,325 --> 00:13:15,094
less than three weeks away 
from election day.

273
00:13:15,194 --> 00:13:17,129
How do you see this all going 
forward?

274
00:13:17,229 --> 00:13:22,701
So, you know as as far as 
good news as far as any

275
00:13:22,801 --> 00:13:25,237
procedural maneuvers 
available to the

276
00:13:25,337 --> 00:13:29,241
Democrats, there really 
aren't many. About the

277
00:13:29,341 --> 00:13:32,378
only trick that they 
might be able to play is

278
00:13:32,478 --> 00:13:37,983
to simply not show up for 
any of the votes and hope

279
00:13:38,083 --> 00:13:41,086
that some Republicans 
maybe ones that have

280
00:13:41,187 --> 00:13:46,125
tested positive for COVID-19 
also can't be there

281
00:13:46,225 --> 00:13:48,427
or you know a 
couple other Republican

282
00:13:48,527 --> 00:13:51,564
senators like Collins and 
Murkowski who have said

283
00:13:51,664 --> 00:13:54,466
that they would vote, no. 
Maybe that would be

284
00:13:54,567 --> 00:13:58,170
enough to not have a 
quorum or at least not

285
00:13:58,270 --> 00:14:01,440
have a majority that 
would be present in order

286
00:14:01,540 --> 00:14:05,611
to vote for Judge Barrett. 
But absent from something like

287
00:14:05,711 --> 00:14:07,346
that, there's really 
nothing that the

288
00:14:07,446 --> 00:14:10,182
Democrats can do to 
prevent this. The only

289
00:14:10,282 --> 00:14:12,618
thing we have to do is 
let Senate procedure play

290
00:14:12,718 --> 00:14:15,521
out and there has to be a 
certain amount of time

291
00:14:15,621 --> 00:14:19,024
allotted before some vote 
comes up or

292
00:14:19,124 --> 00:14:22,161
before a motion comes up 
and then debate before

293
00:14:22,261 --> 00:14:25,130
the vote can come up. 
Those are really the only

294
00:14:25,231 --> 00:14:27,933
processes that are 
left to play out. So looks

295
00:14:28,033 --> 00:14:30,369
like smooth sailing from 
here then.

296
00:14:30,469 --> 00:14:33,005
Pretty much. Yeah I think 
so. Well, I think so. Well,

297
00:14:33,105 --> 00:14:35,474
thank you very much. Kirk 
Randazzo, he is an expert on

298
00:14:35,574 --> 00:14:37,176
judicial politics and 
chairman of the political

299
00:14:37,276 --> 00:14:38,911
science department at the 
University of South

300
00:14:39,011 --> 00:14:42,314
Carolina. Thanks again. 
Thank you.

301
00:14:42,414 --> 00:14:44,149
The Senate race between 
Senator Lindsey Graham

302
00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:46,352
and Democratic challenger 
Jamie Harrison continues

303
00:14:46,452 --> 00:14:49,722
to break fundraising 
records. And to discuss this

304
00:14:49,822 --> 00:14:51,724
I'm joined by Gibbs Knotts.

305
00:14:51,824 --> 00:14:54,193
He's a professor of Political 
Science in the College of

306
00:14:54,293 --> 00:14:56,228
Charleston to discuss these 
fundraising records and of

307
00:14:56,328 --> 00:14:58,163
course the state of 
play with this race

308
00:14:58,264 --> 00:15:01,033
right now. Gibbs, welcome back 
to the show. Hey, thanks for

309
00:15:01,133 --> 00:15:03,702
having me get so we're 
looking at these numbers

310
00:15:03,802 --> 00:15:05,871
they're astronomical. I 
mean we're looking at

311
00:15:05,971 --> 00:15:07,673
57 million 
dollars from Jamie Harrison

312
00:15:07,773 --> 00:15:09,842
the third quarter. Senator 
Graham raised a little

313
00:15:09,942 --> 00:15:12,511
bit less than half of 
that at 28 million.

314
00:15:12,611 --> 00:15:14,613
What is your take when 
you see these numbers?

315
00:15:14,713 --> 00:15:16,849
What does that mean about 
this race and just how

316
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:20,019
important it is. I mean I 
knew this was going to be

317
00:15:20,119 --> 00:15:22,488
a race that got some 
attention but no where in

318
00:15:22,588 --> 00:15:25,824
my wildest dreams did I 
expect this type of money

319
00:15:25,925 --> 00:15:28,727
coming in, especially for 
a democrat.

320
00:15:28,827 --> 00:15:30,729
You know, this is not 
California. This is not

321
00:15:30,829 --> 00:15:33,032
New York. 
You know this is South

322
00:15:33,132 --> 00:15:36,535
Carolina. We got some 
solid media

323
00:15:36,635 --> 00:15:38,937
markets in Columbia and 
Greenville and Charleston

324
00:15:39,038 --> 00:15:41,974
but again nothing 
like some of these larger

325
00:15:42,074 --> 00:15:45,077
states. And so, and just 
it's mind blowing that

326
00:15:45,177 --> 00:15:47,379
there's been this much 
money raised. Not one

327
00:15:47,479 --> 00:15:49,281
quarter of 57 
million dollars for

328
00:15:49,381 --> 00:15:52,885
Harrison is just you know 
unbelievable if there's

329
00:15:52,985 --> 00:15:55,254
that much money in this 
race. And Gibbs when we

330
00:15:55,354 --> 00:15:56,855
talk about media markets, 
it's not like

331
00:15:56,955 --> 00:15:58,991
we're in the most expensive 
media market. Everyone's talking

332
00:15:59,091 --> 00:16:01,126
about Beto O'Rourke when he was 
raising you know such

333
00:16:01,226 --> 00:16:04,129
high sums for the the 
Senate race in Texas.

334
00:16:04,229 --> 00:16:06,365
And then you talk about 
multiple major media

335
00:16:06,465 --> 00:16:08,000
markets in Texas whereas 
we're talking about

336
00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:10,169
here in South Carolina 
where you know Charleston,

337
00:16:10,269 --> 00:16:12,004
Columbia, Greenville, 
Spartanburg.

338
00:16:12,104 --> 00:16:13,772
So, we are seeing that he is 
spending

339
00:16:13,872 --> 00:16:15,374
that money according 
to the #*FCC.

340
00:16:15,474 --> 00:16:16,575
He has about eight million

341
00:16:16,675 --> 00:16:17,976
dollars on hand going 
into this

342
00:16:18,077 --> 00:16:21,313
last quarter here, Jamie 
Harrison does. So it's going

343
00:16:21,413 --> 00:16:23,849
out the door pretty quick 
too. Yeah, it is. And you

344
00:16:23,949 --> 00:16:26,185
know certainly social 
media is another thing.

345
00:16:26,285 --> 00:16:28,654
You know, whether you click 
on a Youtube video, watch

346
00:16:28,754 --> 00:16:31,523
a new story, anything you 
do on social media you're

347
00:16:31,623 --> 00:16:34,093
going to see something 
political. And a lot of

348
00:16:34,193 --> 00:16:36,628
it's going to be Jamie 
Harrison or Lindsey Graham.

349
00:16:36,729 --> 00:16:38,664
Jamie Harrison is all over 
social media, as well.

350
00:16:38,764 --> 00:16:42,735
And then Gibbs when we look 
at that and the spending,

351
00:16:42,835 --> 00:16:44,470
do you think 
that it is a disadvantage?

352
00:16:44,570 --> 00:16:46,472
I mean you hear from 
Senator Graham say this

353
00:16:46,572 --> 00:16:48,607
money is coming from out 
of state. This is coming

354
00:16:48,707 --> 00:16:51,110
from people, you know in 
California, New York these

355
00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:53,579
you know the radical left 
trying to defeat me.

356
00:16:53,679 --> 00:16:55,080
Obviously, these people 
can't vote in South

357
00:16:55,180 --> 00:16:57,149
Carolina, so it's a little 
bit of a different

358
00:16:57,249 --> 00:16:58,817
momentum there when we 
talk about money versus

359
00:16:58,917 --> 00:17:01,487
the polling. But is that a 
negative? Or do you think

360
00:17:01,587 --> 00:17:03,722
it's just a matter of 
just how nationalized

361
00:17:03,822 --> 00:17:06,225
this race has become. 
It's more of a referendum

362
00:17:06,325 --> 00:17:08,026
on Lindsey Graham who 
people have seen to

363
00:17:08,127 --> 00:17:10,562
through the Kavanaugh hearings 
and in his evolution on

364
00:17:10,662 --> 00:17:13,198
Donald Trump over the 
years. I think it's a good

365
00:17:13,298 --> 00:17:15,701
campaign tactic 
for Lindsey Graham to say

366
00:17:15,801 --> 00:17:17,503
it's a disadvantage 
and to point it out,

367
00:17:17,603 --> 00:17:19,605
but at the 
end of the day, I

368
00:17:19,705 --> 00:17:21,974
think if you have the 
money, you can take it.

369
00:17:22,074 --> 00:17:24,610
Look, I think the proof is 
in the pudding. You know

370
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:27,946
the polls have been closed. 
The fact that a Democrat is

371
00:17:28,046 --> 00:17:30,382
within striking distance 
in a red state like South

372
00:17:30,482 --> 00:17:33,552
Carolina, shows what money 
can do. It's a tribute to -

373
00:17:33,652 --> 00:17:36,855
Jamie Harrison's 
campaign is a tribute to

374
00:17:36,955 --> 00:17:41,727
his candidacy, how 
how compelling he is and his

375
00:17:41,827 --> 00:17:44,263
personal story. But look the 
underlying

376
00:17:44,363 --> 00:17:46,765
fundamentals in South 
Carolina

377
00:17:46,865 --> 00:17:49,201
help out the Republican 
Party. Every statewide

378
00:17:49,301 --> 00:17:52,471
elected official is a 
Republican right now.

379
00:17:52,571 --> 00:17:56,008
So, you know look I don't 
see that the closeness of

380
00:17:56,108 --> 00:17:58,177
this race would have been 
possible without these

381
00:17:58,277 --> 00:18:01,413
resources. It has given Harrison 
the ability to go out on

382
00:18:01,513 --> 00:18:04,516
television, tell this 
story and make sure

383
00:18:04,616 --> 00:18:07,252
people know who he is. 
He had he not run for office

384
00:18:07,352 --> 00:18:09,488
before. He had been 
head of the South

385
00:18:09,588 --> 00:18:11,356
Carolina Democratic Party, 
but he was not a

386
00:18:11,457 --> 00:18:13,459
household name 
in the way that

387
00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:15,194
Tim Scott or Nikki Haley,

388
00:18:15,294 --> 00:18:18,163
or even Mark Sanford was. 
So, I do think that it

389
00:18:18,263 --> 00:18:20,399
has really helped him. And 
certainly, you know, he's

390
00:18:20,499 --> 00:18:23,101
better off for it, even if it 
has come largely from out

391
00:18:23,202 --> 00:18:25,270
of state. And we don't 
even know how much money

392
00:18:25,370 --> 00:18:27,005
he's raised in this final 
quarter. We won't

393
00:18:27,105 --> 00:18:29,408
know that for some time after 
election day. But we have

394
00:18:29,508 --> 00:18:31,577
seen, you know, big moments 
for Jamie Harrison

395
00:18:31,677 --> 00:18:33,378
because he's able to 
capitalize on that first

396
00:18:33,479 --> 00:18:35,414
debate with that 
plexiglas partition.

397
00:18:35,514 --> 00:18:38,283
That got attraction all 
over, you know. Then, you

398
00:18:38,383 --> 00:18:39,852
know, you'd here's some 
responses from Senator

399
00:18:39,952 --> 00:18:42,521
Graham, you most recently 
in their last debate turned

400
00:18:42,621 --> 00:18:45,257
to forum talking about race 
and that kind of got

401
00:18:45,357 --> 00:18:47,626
a little convoluted, a 
seven second clip there

402
00:18:47,726 --> 00:18:49,561
saying that if you're black 
and conservative you can

403
00:18:49,661 --> 00:18:52,197
go anywhere. That went national. 
All these moments that

404
00:18:52,297 --> 00:18:56,068
Jamie keeps capitalizing 
on to his advantage,

405
00:18:56,168 --> 00:18:58,036
it's just interesting to see how 
that scenario is playing out.

406
00:18:58,137 --> 00:19:01,206
You'd think for Senator Graham 
maybe running for a fourth term,

407
00:19:01,306 --> 00:19:04,009
this seems like a very 
precarious situation he's been

408
00:19:04,109 --> 00:19:07,279
in considering the challenges 
he's seen over the past.

409
00:19:07,379 --> 00:19:10,349
Yeah, I think it all goes back 
to the decision that he made.

410
00:19:10,449 --> 00:19:13,752
You know, once Trump got elected 
he seemed to shift to the right.

411
00:19:13,852 --> 00:19:17,222
He obviously went from being a 
harsh critic of Donald Trump

412
00:19:17,322 --> 00:19:20,692
to a close ally of the 
President. And again, I think

413
00:19:20,792 --> 00:19:25,030
that helped Lindsay Graham 
fend off primary challenges.

414
00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:27,733
I mean, I think Lindsay Graham, 
in a lot of his career

415
00:19:27,833 --> 00:19:29,835
he was always worried, who's 
going to challenge him

416
00:19:29,935 --> 00:19:32,237
in a primary? Who's going 
to run to his right?

417
00:19:32,337 --> 00:19:34,373
Who's going to say that 
Senator Graham is not

418
00:19:34,473 --> 00:19:37,009
conservative enough? No 
one's thinking that anymore.

419
00:19:37,109 --> 00:19:40,646
Obviously, you know, he coasted 
through the primary but he

420
00:19:40,746 --> 00:19:43,515
opened himself a little bit in 
the general election.

421
00:19:43,615 --> 00:19:46,318
What he probably never 
anticipated was somebody

422
00:19:46,418 --> 00:19:49,021
raising the kind of money that 
Jamie Harrison's raising

423
00:19:49,121 --> 00:19:52,057
and he never anticipated, you 
know, it being this close.

424
00:19:52,157 --> 00:19:56,161
He always had a general 
election cushion

425
00:19:56,261 --> 00:19:58,163
I still think this is 
a race that

426
00:19:58,263 --> 00:20:00,432
still probably leans 
Republican. I sort of think

427
00:20:00,532 --> 00:20:02,701
is it a toss up or is it 
leans Republican?

428
00:20:02,801 --> 00:20:05,637
It's like toss up slash leans 
Republican. It's probably

429
00:20:05,737 --> 00:20:08,473
right between those 
but I do think

430
00:20:08,574 --> 00:20:11,877
Lindsey Graham 
is getting all he

431
00:20:11,977 --> 00:20:13,879
could handle. I think 
it's probably very

432
00:20:13,979 --> 00:20:16,615
surprising to him that 
he's in such a

433
00:20:16,715 --> 00:20:18,951
competitive race, the 
fourth time he's running

434
00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:20,619
for Senate. And he was in the 
U. S.

435
00:20:20,719 --> 00:20:22,754
House before that. And so 
he has a long history in

436
00:20:22,854 --> 00:20:25,090
South Carolina politics. 
But this is certainly

437
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:27,426
going to be his closest 
election. And Gibbs when we

438
00:20:27,526 --> 00:20:29,261
look at it being a close 
election you know

439
00:20:29,361 --> 00:20:31,997
it's important but he won 
by seventeen points and

440
00:20:32,097 --> 00:20:33,865
you know back in 2014 
obviously things

441
00:20:33,966 --> 00:20:35,934
have changed since then 
in the state of the

442
00:20:36,034 --> 00:20:38,870
country in political 
politics as a whole.

443
00:20:38,971 --> 00:20:40,639
But I'm wondering 
what is maybe a narrow

444
00:20:40,739 --> 00:20:42,841
path to victory when we 
look at this? When we're

445
00:20:42,941 --> 00:20:44,409
talking about squishing this 
with some of

446
00:20:44,509 --> 00:20:46,545
his previous supporters, are we 
looking at the fact that

447
00:20:46,645 --> 00:20:49,014
Bill Bledsoe who 
was a Constitution Park

448
00:20:49,114 --> 00:20:51,550
candidate who is no longer 
running but still

449
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:53,652
technically on the ballot, 
so people can vote for

450
00:20:53,752 --> 00:20:55,420
for him if he wants 
a little bit

451
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,323
more conservative candidate 
there. You know that can

452
00:20:58,423 --> 00:21:00,859
be peeled a couple 
percentage points there.

453
00:21:00,959 --> 00:21:02,494
I mean what could what 
could hypothetically

454
00:21:02,594 --> 00:21:05,297
happen here if we look at 
some numbers?

455
00:21:05,397 --> 00:21:07,299
I look at the 
South Carolina first

456
00:21:07,399 --> 00:21:09,801
Congressional district with 
Joe Cunningham back in 2018.

457
00:21:09,901 --> 00:21:12,170
I think that's a model.

458
00:21:12,271 --> 00:21:15,741
That's a formula that 
Harrison could pull together.

459
00:21:15,841 --> 00:21:17,776
Now one of the 
big differences is Graham's

460
00:21:17,876 --> 00:21:20,278
an incumbent and Joe 
Cunningham was running

461
00:21:20,379 --> 00:21:22,547
against Katie Arrington, 
who was not an incumbent.

462
00:21:22,648 --> 00:21:24,883
She had knocked off Mark 
Sanford but you know Joe

463
00:21:24,983 --> 00:21:28,320
Cunningham is able to win 
among college educated folks,

464
00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:30,889
people living in the 
suburbs but also get

465
00:21:30,989 --> 00:21:33,325
strong and solid support 
from the African American

466
00:21:33,425 --> 00:21:35,827
community as well. So, Jamie 
Harrison has to

467
00:21:35,927 --> 00:21:38,797
start with the base of 
the Democratic Party,

468
00:21:38,897 --> 00:21:40,999
African American voters 
in South Carolina and

469
00:21:41,099 --> 00:21:43,869
then add to that and he's 
got to be able to win

470
00:21:43,969 --> 00:21:46,304
some of the suburban 
areas. He's gotta be able to win

471
00:21:46,405 --> 00:21:49,107
Mount Pleasant and Daniel 
Island. You know some

472
00:21:49,207 --> 00:21:52,110
places, you know, at 
least do better

473
00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:55,213
in some of the upstate 
areas that surround Greenville

474
00:21:55,313 --> 00:21:57,783
and Spartanburg counties. 
And so yeah I do think

475
00:21:57,883 --> 00:22:01,453
there is a path for 
Jamie Harrison but it's

476
00:22:01,553 --> 00:22:03,455
going to be a 
challenge. And again it's

477
00:22:03,555 --> 00:22:06,491
that is the underlying 
fundamentals of the

478
00:22:06,591 --> 00:22:08,794
Republican support in 
South Carolina and the

479
00:22:08,894 --> 00:22:11,530
Republican Party in South 
Carolina has done a really

480
00:22:11,630 --> 00:22:14,833
good job over several 
decades at you know,

481
00:22:14,933 --> 00:22:17,602
fundraising having to get out 
the vote operation,

482
00:22:17,703 --> 00:22:21,506
fielding candidates who 
are compelling and

483
00:22:21,606 --> 00:22:24,209
have a lot of experience. 
And so again you know

484
00:22:24,309 --> 00:22:26,144
it didn't just 
happen overnight.

485
00:22:26,244 --> 00:22:28,747
Republicans built this 
strength starting you

486
00:22:28,847 --> 00:22:31,650
know back in the time of 
Carroll Campbell and have

487
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:34,586
just kind of built on it 
brick by brick and so

488
00:22:34,686 --> 00:22:36,088
they're a 
juggernaut in South

489
00:22:36,188 --> 00:22:39,257
Carolina. It's still a 
tall order for Jamie Harrison.

490
00:22:39,358 --> 00:22:41,360
Gotcha there, so but it's 
still - would you say

491
00:22:41,460 --> 00:22:43,261
it's kind of a wake up 
call for both

492
00:22:43,361 --> 00:22:45,430
parties when we talk about 
running statewide at this point?

493
00:22:45,530 --> 00:22:47,566
I mean to have such 
incredible numbers this

494
00:22:47,666 --> 00:22:49,468
must give 
Democrats hope, who you

495
00:22:49,568 --> 00:22:51,670
know they're seeing this 
money raised that you know

496
00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:53,638
some of it's 
making its way back into

497
00:22:53,739 --> 00:22:56,208
Democratic Party coffers, 
so they'll be able to have a

498
00:22:56,308 --> 00:22:58,176
more realistic attempts 
in the future at some of

499
00:22:58,276 --> 00:23:00,445
these statewide offices but 
also for Republicans

500
00:23:00,545 --> 00:23:03,081
thinking Hey where's this 
coming from? This is a

501
00:23:03,181 --> 00:23:05,484
possibility that you know a 
statewide offices up for

502
00:23:05,584 --> 00:23:08,253
grabs for the first time 
in a long time.

503
00:23:08,353 --> 00:23:10,389
Definitely a wake up call 
for Republicans. They

504
00:23:10,489 --> 00:23:13,024
don't have it completely 
in the bag. Yeah I think a

505
00:23:13,125 --> 00:23:15,927
good sign for Democrats. 
Yyou know we have some

506
00:23:16,027 --> 00:23:18,130
good candidates run 
before statewide on the

507
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:20,432
democratic ticket but you 
know no one's been able

508
00:23:20,532 --> 00:23:22,434
to raise the type of 
money. You know

509
00:23:22,534 --> 00:23:24,903
this is good for South 
Carolina. I think that you

510
00:23:25,003 --> 00:23:28,440
don't want one one party 
to be in complete control

511
00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:30,509
to have no accountability. 
And you know we think

512
00:23:30,609 --> 00:23:33,245
about the old old south 
with the Democrats they

513
00:23:33,345 --> 00:23:35,480
dominated. There was no 
challenge to the Democratic

514
00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:37,482
Party. The only race was 
really in the democratic

515
00:23:37,582 --> 00:23:40,318
primary. You know now, you 
know since the two

516
00:23:40,418 --> 00:23:42,954
thousands it's really 
been very unlikely for a

517
00:23:43,054 --> 00:23:44,723
Democrat to win. 
Republicans kind of

518
00:23:44,823 --> 00:23:47,159
have it in the bag, in 
many statewide - you know

519
00:23:47,259 --> 00:23:49,628
most of the statewide 
contests. And so it's

520
00:23:49,728 --> 00:23:52,464
good for democracy that 
small D. democracy

521
00:23:52,564 --> 00:23:54,232
when we have 
competitive elections.

522
00:23:54,332 --> 00:23:56,968
I think it holds whoever is 
in office a little more

523
00:23:57,068 --> 00:23:58,870
accountable. Gibbs we have about 
two minutes left

524
00:23:58,970 --> 00:24:01,072
but I want to just touch 
on what you were

525
00:24:01,173 --> 00:24:02,440
mentioning about some 
congressional district races

526
00:24:02,541 --> 00:24:04,676
too. I want to look at the 
first Congressional district

527
00:24:04,776 --> 00:24:06,745
there. Republicans 
obviously had a target on

528
00:24:06,845 --> 00:24:08,847
Joe Cunningham's back 
there since day one after

529
00:24:08,947 --> 00:24:11,650
he won election in 2018, 
but we're seeing

530
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:13,852
some polling from you 
know the DCCCs, you

531
00:24:13,952 --> 00:24:16,455
know independent 
expenditure arm showing

532
00:24:16,555 --> 00:24:18,256
that he's a thirteen 
percent margin over Nancy

533
00:24:18,356 --> 00:24:20,458
Mace. Obviously, 
this is you know a paid for

534
00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:22,727
poll, but it's kind 
of interesting to see

535
00:24:22,828 --> 00:24:25,230
just a big margin there. 
And then you also look at

536
00:24:25,330 --> 00:24:26,932
the second congressional 
district here where you

537
00:24:27,032 --> 00:24:29,568
have Adair before Burroughs 
who's running against

538
00:24:29,668 --> 00:24:32,270
Joe Wilson in the second 
district, who just raised

539
00:24:32,370 --> 00:24:35,040
what 913 thousand dollars in the 
third quarter,

540
00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:37,676
which is a pretty big sum. It 
was a record breaking some for

541
00:24:37,776 --> 00:24:39,611
her and you know she's 
raised over two million

542
00:24:39,711 --> 00:24:41,746
dollars in the cycle. So, 
it's interesting to see

543
00:24:41,847 --> 00:24:44,115
these pockets of 
Democrats kind of

544
00:24:44,216 --> 00:24:46,017
really giving these 
Republicans in the

545
00:24:46,117 --> 00:24:48,486
majority a run for their 
money. Yeah I mean we're

546
00:24:48,587 --> 00:24:51,957
five of seven, the current 
house members Republican.

547
00:24:52,057 --> 00:24:54,326
And so you know Joe 
Cunningham has had a target

548
00:24:54,426 --> 00:24:56,795
on his back. Nancy Mace 
in a lot ways is a

549
00:24:56,895 --> 00:24:58,797
dream candidate, first 
woman to graduate from

550
00:24:58,897 --> 00:25:02,500
the Core cadets of the Citadel, 
a sitting state

551
00:25:02,601 --> 00:25:05,103
member of the 
South Carolina House of

552
00:25:05,203 --> 00:25:07,505
Representatives and so 
certainly a compelling

553
00:25:07,606 --> 00:25:10,542
candidate. It's a district 
that Donald Trump won by

554
00:25:10,642 --> 00:25:12,844
thirteen percentage 
points back in

555
00:25:12,944 --> 00:25:17,249
2016 but again, Joe 
Cunningham is a good

556
00:25:17,349 --> 00:25:20,185
candidate for this 
district. He's you know

557
00:25:20,285 --> 00:25:22,053
you know spoken out 
against Pelosi, spoken

558
00:25:22,153 --> 00:25:24,956
out about his party, tried 
to reach across the aisle,

559
00:25:25,056 --> 00:25:27,692
tried to you know build 
himself as somebody who

560
00:25:27,792 --> 00:25:30,428
is it's Low 
Country over party as his

561
00:25:30,528 --> 00:25:33,532
campaign theme. And so I 
doubt that it will be

562
00:25:33,632 --> 00:25:36,368
that much of the victory. It 
was just extremely close

563
00:25:36,468 --> 00:25:38,770
back in in 2018 
but again

564
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:40,639
things are looking good 
for Joe Cunningham right

565
00:25:40,739 --> 00:25:43,141
now. And I think it's a 
tribute to the

566
00:25:43,241 --> 00:25:44,843
strong campaign 
that he's running and his

567
00:25:44,943 --> 00:25:47,579
ability to raise money. 
Yeah a lot to watch for

568
00:25:47,679 --> 00:25:49,714
in the less than three 
weeks ago for election

569
00:25:49,814 --> 00:25:51,716
day. And Gibbs, you're 
gonna be joining us on

570
00:25:51,816 --> 00:25:53,752
election night too. So, I'm 
looking forward to that for

571
00:25:53,852 --> 00:25:55,754
election night coverage 
on November third and

572
00:25:55,854 --> 00:25:57,389
that's Gibbs Knotts. He's a 
political science professor

573
00:25:57,489 --> 00:25:58,990
at the College of 
Charleston. Gibbs thanks

574
00:25:59,090 --> 00:26:01,893
again for joining us. 
Thanks Gavin.

575
00:26:01,993 --> 00:26:03,895
Tostay up to date on the 
latest news throughout

576
00:26:03,995 --> 00:26:05,697
the week, check out the 
South Carolina Lede.

577
00:26:05,797 --> 00:26:08,199
It's a podcast that I host and 
drops multiple times a week.

578
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:10,769
You can find it on South 
Carolina public radio.org

579
00:26:10,869 --> 00:26:12,904
or wherever you find 
podcasts.

580
00:26:13,004 --> 00:26:14,906
For South Carolina ETV. 
I'm Gavin Jackson.

581
00:26:15,006 --> 00:26:16,408
Be well, South Carolina.

582
00:26:16,508 --> 00:26:17,509
♪