1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,830 ROBERT COSTA: It is complicated. Attorney General Jeff Sessions steps away from all 2 00:00:05,830 --> 00:00:11,020 probes into Russian meddling in the 2016 election. I'm Robert Costa. 3 00:00:11,020 --> 00:00:15,630 We explain where the investigations go from here, tonight on Washington Week. 4 00:00:15,630 --> 00:00:21,200 ATTORNEY GENERAL JEFF SESSIONS: (From video.) Let me be clear: I never had meetings with 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:26,480 Russian operatives or Russian intermediaries about the Trump campaign. 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,560 ROBERT COSTA: President Trump stands by his attorney general, saying he is an honest 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,460 man, and calling the controversy over his meetings with a Russian diplomat 8 00:00:34,460 --> 00:00:37,230 a politically motivated witch hunt. 9 00:00:37,230 --> 00:00:40,230 HOUSE MINORITY LEADER NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): (From video.) The fact that the attorney 10 00:00:40,230 --> 00:00:45,360 general, the top cop in our country, lied under oath to the American people is grounds 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,780 for him to resign. 12 00:00:47,780 --> 00:00:51,710 ROBERT COSTA: But a leading Republican and Trump supporter has joined with Democrats, 13 00:00:51,710 --> 00:00:56,270 calling for an independent prosecutor to investigate potential ties between Trump 14 00:00:56,270 --> 00:00:58,870 associates and Russia. 15 00:00:58,870 --> 00:01:01,580 REPRESENTATIVE DARRELL ISSA (R-CA): (From video.) You're going to need to use the 16 00:01:01,580 --> 00:01:03,750 special prosecutors statute. 17 00:01:03,750 --> 00:01:07,290 ROBERT COSTA: Are the investigations into Russia stalling President Trump's ambitious 18 00:01:07,290 --> 00:01:11,680 agenda? We get answers and analysis from Dan Balz of The Washington Post, 19 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,230 Alexis Simendinger of Real Clear Politics, Michael Scherer of TIME Magazine, 20 00:01:16,230 --> 00:01:22,000 Mark Mazzetti of The New York Times, and Ellen Nakashima of The Washington Post. 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:28,400 ANNOUNCER: Celebrating 50 years, this is Washington Week. 22 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,770 Once again, from Washington, Robert Costa of The Washington Post. 23 00:01:33,770 --> 00:01:38,240 ROBERT COSTA: Good evening. The stock market soared to a record-setting high 24 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,030 following President Trump's confident speech to a joint session of Congress on Tuesday. 25 00:01:43,030 --> 00:01:48,190 But it was news about Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Russia that dominated the week. 26 00:01:48,190 --> 00:01:53,040 The Washington Post, my newspaper, broke the story that Sessions met at least twice with 27 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,700 the same Russian diplomat whose interactions with former National Security Advisor 28 00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:02,670 Michael Flynn led to Flynn's resignation. Sessions denied having any meetings with 29 00:02:02,670 --> 00:02:06,510 any Russian envoys during his confirmation hearing last month. 30 00:02:06,510 --> 00:02:10,560 On the same day, on the front page, The New York Times broke another story, that 31 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:15,020 officials in the Obama administration actively worked to preserve intelligence about 32 00:02:15,020 --> 00:02:20,070 Russia's interference in the presidential election. Joining me on the latest on 33 00:02:20,070 --> 00:02:24,680 Russia and the investigations are Ellen Nakashima, my colleague at the Post, and Mark 34 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,340 Mazzetti of The New York Times. Ellen, where exactly do these investigations go from 35 00:02:29,340 --> 00:02:33,170 here, in particular with regard to the Justice Department? 36 00:02:33,170 --> 00:02:37,470 ELLEN NAKASHIMA: Well, right now, with Jeff Sessions having recused himself, the 37 00:02:37,470 --> 00:02:43,820 oversight of the investigation falls to his deputy. Acting deputy attorney general 38 00:02:43,820 --> 00:02:48,730 is Dana Boente, who's a 33-year career prosecutor from the Eastern District of 39 00:02:48,730 --> 00:02:53,560 Virginia who was appointed by President Obama. He's an Obama holdover, confirmed by 40 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:59,400 the Senate, and he's widely respected within the - within the Justice Department. 41 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:06,600 Now, we're expecting a new deputy, Rod Rosenstein, to be the next deputy attorney 42 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,910 general. His confirmation hearing is up for next week. He, too, is a holdover from 43 00:03:11,910 --> 00:03:16,750 the Obama administration, and not only that, was - is the longest-serving U.S. 44 00:03:16,750 --> 00:03:21,090 attorney, having been appointed U.S. attorney first by George W. Bush. 45 00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:28,100 I think the Justice Department is going to argue that they can handle the investigation 46 00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:33,560 without the need of a special prosecutor or appointing someone outside the department. 47 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,260 ROBERT COSTA: Ellen, what's the likelihood, though, of a special prosecutor? 48 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:40,360 What could make it happen inside of the Justice Department? 49 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,710 ELLEN NAKASHIMA: Well, in fact, it is up to the Justice Department and the attorney 50 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:48,480 general - and then I guess in this case would be the deputy attorney general - to decide 51 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,780 whether or not to appoint a special prosecutor. It's not up to Congress. 52 00:03:52,780 --> 00:03:59,420 And there is just a lot of institutional pressure here or prerogative to keep the 53 00:03:59,420 --> 00:04:04,730 investigation within the department, where they feel that they have the career attorneys 54 00:04:04,730 --> 00:04:11,050 with the independence to conduct an impartial investigation free from any conflict of interest. 55 00:04:11,050 --> 00:04:14,750 ROBERT COSTA: Mark, you've done a lot of deep reporting this week on how it's not just 56 00:04:14,750 --> 00:04:18,610 the Justice Department that's looking into this issue about Russia and interference and 57 00:04:18,610 --> 00:04:23,680 connections to the Trump campaign. It's foreign governments. What have we seen from them? 58 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,570 MARK MAZZETTI: Well, one of the things we reported this week was that in the months - 59 00:04:28,570 --> 00:04:33,500 the final months of the Obama administration, officials were receiving reports from 60 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:40,970 allied governments in Europe talking about contacts between Trump associates and 61 00:04:40,970 --> 00:04:49,160 Russians. And these reports were kind of coming in in a stream over time, and they 62 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,450 were adding to what the United States intelligence community and law enforcement 63 00:04:53,450 --> 00:04:56,320 had already - had already collected. 64 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,260 And there was this sort of scramble in the final days of the Obama administration to 65 00:05:01,260 --> 00:05:04,960 preserve some of this information because they weren't sure what was going to happen 66 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,020 after January 20th, once the Trump administration took over. 67 00:05:09,020 --> 00:05:13,440 One of the interesting things is also there's this lag time, where the reports may have 68 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:19,440 come in over the summer - there are communications, there's information to sift through - 69 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,550 but it may be weeks or months before some of this is looked at. 70 00:05:23,550 --> 00:05:27,610 So even in the final days of the Obama administration, people were still seeing some of 71 00:05:27,610 --> 00:05:32,560 these new reports, which sort of added to a little bit of the hysteria about what might 72 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,120 be out there in terms of the connections. 73 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,870 ROBERT COSTA: Mark, when I was reading your story in the Times, I kept wondering who are 74 00:05:37,870 --> 00:05:41,190 these other Trump campaign associates that may be under scrutiny. Is it Paul Manafort, 75 00:05:41,190 --> 00:05:44,620 the former campaign chairman for the president? Is it Carter Page, a former foreign 76 00:05:44,620 --> 00:05:48,690 policy advisor? Who's really on the radar right now of these investigations? 77 00:05:48,690 --> 00:05:51,580 MARK MAZZETTI: Well, we are still trying to learn more. 78 00:05:51,580 --> 00:05:57,610 We've reported in the past that Paul Manafort, Carter Page and a few others are under 79 00:05:57,610 --> 00:06:04,760 scrutiny, and it is - it is - you know, we're trying to find as much as possible out 80 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:11,720 about the FBI and Senate investigations. There are, you know, a growing number of - 81 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:16,600 as we're learning this week, of contacts that we are now reporting on publicly 82 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,830 between Trump advisors, Trump campaign surrogates, et cetera, and Russians. 83 00:06:21,830 --> 00:06:26,340 So we're trying to sort of figure out how much of what we're learning this week on some 84 00:06:26,340 --> 00:06:32,120 of these public contacts are adding to what the FBI and the Senate are already looking 85 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,380 at, but it's still at this point a little bit hard to figure out. 86 00:06:36,380 --> 00:06:39,410 ROBERT COSTA: Ellen, it's not just the investigators who are trying to find out more; 87 00:06:39,410 --> 00:06:42,880 it's the lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House 88 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,120 Intelligence Committee, he's pushing FBI Director James Comey for more information. 89 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,830 A lot of lawmakers feel like they're flying blind. 90 00:06:49,830 --> 00:06:53,550 ELLEN NAKASHIMA: Yeah, that's right. A lot of lawmakers, and in particular the 91 00:06:53,550 --> 00:06:58,410 Democrats, are feeling frustrated that they're not getting as much information from 92 00:06:58,410 --> 00:07:03,310 the director, from Comey, as they feel they should, given that they are members of 93 00:07:03,310 --> 00:07:07,440 the oversight committee, the House Intelligence Committee in particular. 94 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:13,540 And I think part of it is, you know, maybe Comey feeling that when he briefs the 95 00:07:13,540 --> 00:07:18,350 committee and if he briefs them fully, some of this information will leak out into the 96 00:07:18,350 --> 00:07:22,090 public domain, and so there is that sort of tension there. 97 00:07:22,090 --> 00:07:26,630 Nonetheless, I think committee members feel that they - in particular the rank and file - 98 00:07:26,630 --> 00:07:30,400 that they're not getting as much information as they're owed. 99 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,370 ROBERT COSTA: Mark, just a quick - to finish, is - the congressional side of this is a 100 00:07:34,370 --> 00:07:38,060 little bit complicated. The Republicans control the committees in the Senate and 101 00:07:38,060 --> 00:07:42,090 the House. What can we expect, especially from the Senate Intelligence Committee? 102 00:07:42,090 --> 00:07:46,790 MARK MAZZETTI: I mean, it seems right at the moment that the Senate side is where the 103 00:07:46,790 --> 00:07:49,670 more serious investigation is going on. 104 00:07:49,670 --> 00:07:54,380 There seems to be greater bipartisan commitment to getting to the bottom of this, and 105 00:07:54,380 --> 00:07:58,270 there's greater commitment on both Republicans and Democrats. 106 00:07:58,270 --> 00:08:02,560 What we saw this week was a war of words, a sort of public spat between the two leaders 107 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,840 of the House Intelligence Committee, and it just sort of signaled that they're not on the 108 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,510 same page, although they did subsequently come out and say that they are going to be 109 00:08:10,510 --> 00:08:14,370 investigating it. But it does appear that the Senate is farther along on this. 110 00:08:14,370 --> 00:08:16,560 ROBERT COSTA: Really appreciate your reporting. 111 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,410 Thanks so much, Ellen Nakashima, my colleague, and Mark Mazzetti of The New York Times. 112 00:08:20,410 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaking of the congressional side of this, I just got off the phone about an hour ago 113 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,550 with the House Intelligence Committee chairman, Devin Nunes, and I'm telling you it's a 114 00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:29,790 war of words from some of these Republicans and Trump allies. 115 00:08:29,790 --> 00:08:33,280 They think they're under siege from what they call the deep state, the embedded 116 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:38,340 bureaucrats they put it, inside of the State Department or the CIA or the FBI. 117 00:08:38,340 --> 00:08:43,000 As the whole administration feels under siege, Alexis, how can they ever get out from 118 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,890 this shadow, politically and within the administration? 119 00:08:46,890 --> 00:08:50,500 ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: Well, listening to Mark and Ellen, I think we all, you know, can 120 00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:53,670 figure out why the administration is so concerned. 121 00:08:53,670 --> 00:08:57,190 Because they don't control the narrative, they don't control the information, there are 122 00:08:57,190 --> 00:09:00,540 investigations now in the executive branch and in the legislative branch, there are 123 00:09:00,540 --> 00:09:04,430 international governments and intelligence communities assisting. 124 00:09:04,430 --> 00:09:08,310 And as you point out, the intelligence is coming out from within the U.S. 125 00:09:08,310 --> 00:09:14,220 government to a fourth estate that the president can denounce, but cannot control. 126 00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:20,590 So what seems to be the case, based on the way the White House is reacting, is that they 127 00:09:20,590 --> 00:09:25,160 would like to use denial. They would like to use politics. 128 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,610 They would like to use distraction and are trying to do all of those things, and point to 129 00:09:30,610 --> 00:09:33,670 hypocrisy, for instance, on Capitol Hill. 130 00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:38,200 But one of the things that has unnerved folks inside the White House is that there are 131 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:43,130 advisors to the president who don't - were not aware of some of this information. 132 00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:48,550 The White House today repeated that the bottom line is that Donald Trump had zero contact 133 00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:51,610 with the Russians, and they are trying to just stick to that. 134 00:09:51,610 --> 00:09:55,010 If the narrative changes, then all bets are off. 135 00:09:55,010 --> 00:09:58,370 MICHAEL SCHERER: What's interesting is those tactics of denying, attacking the 136 00:09:58,370 --> 00:10:02,630 messenger, work in a political space where - actually worked pretty well for Trump during 137 00:10:02,630 --> 00:10:06,660 the campaign, when he was able to take all kinds of incoming and then turn it around on 138 00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:11,170 Twitter and throw it back in his opponents' faces. He started that strategy during 139 00:10:11,170 --> 00:10:14,810 the campaign. Right after the campaign, in an interview with TIME, he said he 140 00:10:14,810 --> 00:10:18,490 didn't believe that the intelligence community was being honest about who had 141 00:10:18,490 --> 00:10:21,810 leaked the emails - with the Russian involvement with the emails. He said he 142 00:10:21,810 --> 00:10:26,300 thought they were politically motivated. He was declaring war in December on this community. 143 00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:30,880 And he's been losing the war. I mean, the fact that Sessions now has to recuse 144 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,890 himself, the fact that he lost Mike Flynn, his national security advisor. 145 00:10:34,890 --> 00:10:38,110 And so I think there is a limit to that tactic. 146 00:10:38,110 --> 00:10:44,070 You can - you can - if you're going up against a dark organization, basically - we don't 147 00:10:44,070 --> 00:10:49,090 know the names of who's speaking here - who have facts that can incriminate your people 148 00:10:49,090 --> 00:10:53,530 and contradict what you have said, you are in the weaker position. 149 00:10:53,530 --> 00:10:57,640 And it'll be interesting to see how the White House deals with this in the coming weeks. 150 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,760 ROBERT COSTA: But it's not just leaks, right, Dan? I mean, you have an attorney 151 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,450 general who was then a senator, Jeff Sessions, meeting with the ambassador from Russia, 152 00:11:04,450 --> 00:11:08,360 choosing to do so, and then fumbling, in some ways, during his testimony. 153 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,450 And then you had Jared Kushner, the son-in-law, meet with then-incoming National Security 154 00:11:12,450 --> 00:11:15,540 Advisor Flynn in December with the Russian ambassador. So it seems like the 155 00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:18,660 administration is not just being leaked on, it's making conscious choices. 156 00:11:18,660 --> 00:11:21,340 DAN BALZ: Well, I mean, a couple of things. Let me pick up on something that 157 00:11:21,340 --> 00:11:25,160 Alexis said, which is this administration doesn't know what it doesn't know. 158 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,560 And so it gets surprised and therefore it's reactive. They need, in some way or 159 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:34,810 another, to do their own internal inventory and investigation, and put it out. 160 00:11:34,810 --> 00:11:40,200 It will be - it will be greeted skeptically because it will look like an inside job, but 161 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,690 nonetheless, it would allow them to know more about what's going on. 162 00:11:44,690 --> 00:11:49,450 The fact that then-Senator Sessions met with the Russian ambassador, there's nothing 163 00:11:49,450 --> 00:11:54,260 particular nefarious about that on its face. Ambassadors in the middle of a 164 00:11:54,260 --> 00:11:58,600 presidential campaign are trying to learn everything they can about the possible 165 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:04,340 next president. And so Jeff Sessions was the highest elected official in the 166 00:12:04,340 --> 00:12:08,310 United States who was close to Donald Trump. He is a natural person for any 167 00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:12,550 ambassador to go to, to try to get a sense of Trump's worldview, his worldview. 168 00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:17,840 The idea that Sessions fumbled that question so badly when he was asked about it in his 169 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,130 confirmation hearings is inexplicable. 170 00:12:21,130 --> 00:12:26,090 He can try to explain it away now, but for whatever reason he either didn't think on his 171 00:12:26,090 --> 00:12:29,840 feet or he felt that there was something that they wanted to hide. 172 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,490 ROBERT COSTA: Is Sessions in deep trouble here? Some Democrats are calling on him to resign. 173 00:12:34,490 --> 00:12:37,870 MICHAEL SCHERER: I think for the time being, without further information coming out, 174 00:12:37,870 --> 00:12:41,120 it's very unlikely that he'll be forced to resign. I think we're in a political 175 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,610 environment where it's not surprising that the opposition party is calling on a 176 00:12:44,610 --> 00:12:49,280 wounded Cabinet official to resign. That said, the fact that he has had to pull 177 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:54,350 himself back from what is one of the most central jobs of the agency he runs 178 00:12:54,350 --> 00:12:59,810 means he's been weakened. And, you know, again, it's what we don't know that 179 00:12:59,810 --> 00:13:03,310 will get them. I think, you know, what Dan said is right. 180 00:13:03,310 --> 00:13:09,680 These kinds of contacts - you know, the idea that intelligence assets of Russia are 181 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:13,220 having contacts with the Trump administration could be very nefarious. 182 00:13:13,220 --> 00:13:17,490 We could be talking about actual spies having secret conversations about things they 183 00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:21,320 don't want out. It's also true that there are a lot of intelligence assets of 184 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,480 Russia who are basically above board. You know, they live in the United States. 185 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,890 We know who they are. They work for think tanks. They work for the embassy. 186 00:13:27,890 --> 00:13:31,890 And they go around schmoozing. They make contacts. They gather information. 187 00:13:31,890 --> 00:13:35,260 They build relationships. We do the same thing in other countries. 188 00:13:35,260 --> 00:13:38,390 And I think the question we're going to have to find out - go ahead. 189 00:13:38,390 --> 00:13:41,490 ROBERT COSTA: And it wasn't just - it wasn't really the meeting that was political 190 00:13:41,490 --> 00:13:44,790 trouble for the Trump administration, it was the fact - because Kislyak, the Russian 191 00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:48,240 ambassador, he meets with people in Washington all of the time. It's the testimony 192 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,210 for Sessions. I mean, do you feel like they have any strategy moving forward, Alexis? 193 00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:55,740 Bannon stayed behind, the chief strategist, to work with Reince Priebus on Thursday to 194 00:13:55,740 --> 00:13:59,000 try to figure something out. What's their strategy moving forward? 195 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,100 ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: Well, the strategy is containment, at least for the time being. 196 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:05,230 But I want to pick up on what Dan was saying, because inside the White House, their 197 00:14:05,230 --> 00:14:08,560 argument is, this makes no sense. We've denied this. 198 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,730 We have conceded that Russia has been meddling and did that in 2016, in the election. 199 00:14:12,730 --> 00:14:17,030 But if we were trying to do something or create a deal, the Russians have gotten nothing 200 00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:20,450 out of it. That's the argument to reporters and publicly. 201 00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:26,160 But what Dan is suggesting is, if that's your argument why is everyone forgetting this 202 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:32,160 prominent diplomat, forgetting their meetings, not mentioning meeting in Trump Tower, 203 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:37,760 trying to wall the president off? So the containment can only work as long as the 204 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,070 story doesn't change. And what we've seen for months - for months, and definitely 205 00:14:43,070 --> 00:14:47,610 in the last six weeks - is that it's almost changing every day. 206 00:14:47,610 --> 00:14:51,290 DAN BALZ: I think another aspect of this is, you know, on the one hand you have a very 207 00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:56,010 big story - which is that the Russian interfered in the U.S. election. 208 00:14:56,010 --> 00:15:00,040 There's an investigation that's going to try to get to the bottom of that - a public 209 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,360 investigation in one form or another. Then you have the overlay on that of what 210 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:11,280 role, if any, did Trump campaign officials, associates, hangers-on, whoever, have 211 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,710 in terms of conversations with the Russians? We know there were contacts. 212 00:15:15,710 --> 00:15:19,920 We don't know what was said. We don't know exactly who all was involved in that. 213 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,940 I mean, there are so many unanswered questions that will have to get answered. 214 00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:26,890 ROBERT COSTA: And unanswered questions about even how the investigations are going to 215 00:15:26,890 --> 00:15:29,520 move forward. Is there a special prosecutor or not? 216 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,850 It almost feels like a month ago, but let's not forget the big news earlier this week. 217 00:15:32,850 --> 00:15:36,450 The president delivered his mission statement to a joint session of Congress. 218 00:15:36,450 --> 00:15:41,020 He laid out an ambitious agenda, including a major boost in military spending and a push 219 00:15:41,020 --> 00:15:44,130 to quickly repeal and replace Obamacare. 220 00:15:44,130 --> 00:15:48,440 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) Mandating every American to buy 221 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:53,540 government-approved health insurance was never the right solution for our country. 222 00:15:53,540 --> 00:16:04,450 (Cheers, applause.) The way to make health insurance available to everyone is to lower 223 00:16:04,450 --> 00:16:10,210 the cost of health insurance. And that is what we are going to do. 224 00:16:10,210 --> 00:16:14,100 ROBERT COSTA: Dan, a lot of Republicans came into Statuary Hall following that speech, 225 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:18,150 and they say they like what they heard. But on health care, the big issue for Republicans, 226 00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:22,160 there just doesn't seem a clear consensus. Yes, tax credits. Yes, Tom Price 227 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,950 is taking the lead. But the big - the big idea on it seems to be a little muddled. 228 00:16:25,950 --> 00:16:29,030 DAN BALZ: Well, it's been muddled for quite a while, and they haven't been able to 229 00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:33,950 resolve that, frankly. And what the president did on Tuesday night was something 230 00:16:33,950 --> 00:16:37,460 that certainly the Republican leadership wanted to hear. 231 00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:41,480 He embraced essentially the - kind of the establishment Republican plan. 232 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,270 But as you know, there are conservative Republicans who are not happy with this plan, who 233 00:16:45,270 --> 00:16:50,040 are desperate to find more details. We know that governors on the Republican side 234 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,500 are split between those states that expanded Medicaid and those that didn't. 235 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:56,040 And they're wary of one another. 236 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,970 And who's going to lead - who's going to lead them out of this quandary? 237 00:16:59,970 --> 00:17:04,320 Is it going to be President Trump, which I suspect some Republicans would like to see? 238 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:10,520 On the other hand, he seems to be more anxious to have the House leaders or the Senate 239 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,520 leaders take the - take the lead on this. So there's just so much work that 240 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,050 has to be done to get to the starting line of the legislative process. 241 00:17:18,050 --> 00:17:20,850 MICHAEL SCHERER: The other thing that - the other thing that Trump was able to 242 00:17:20,850 --> 00:17:24,940 successfully showcase Tuesday night was that he could embody the office of the president 243 00:17:24,940 --> 00:17:30,900 in a normal and unifying way. That speech was very much Trump in terms of policy. 244 00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:34,610 A lot of Americans didn't agree with it. But almost everyone who watched that 245 00:17:34,610 --> 00:17:38,130 speech recognized a president speaking before a joint session of Congress. 246 00:17:38,130 --> 00:17:41,380 And after the speech, when they went back to the White House, the staff was truly 247 00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:45,150 delighted. And I think the president, I've heard, was also delighted, because 248 00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:50,020 he's realizing the levers of his own power, his own ability to control his office. 249 00:17:50,020 --> 00:17:53,820 And it's not by breaking the rules. In that case, he wasn't breaking the rules. 250 00:17:53,820 --> 00:17:57,720 He was following the rules, following what you do in a speech like that. 251 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,200 And then immediately we get off on this Russia thing the following day. 252 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,820 And now we're back in a space where he's tweeting about investigations of Chuck Schumer 253 00:18:05,820 --> 00:18:09,960 for a public meeting with, you know, Putin 13 years ago. 254 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,870 I mean, we're back in sort of the silly part of the Trump campaign. 255 00:18:13,870 --> 00:18:17,350 And I think one of the other decisions they're going to have to make - not just with the 256 00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:21,070 Russia stuff, not just with the legislative agenda they have - but is how much they 257 00:18:21,070 --> 00:18:24,950 decide to abandon what they've seen as their strength in the past, which is their ability 258 00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:29,190 to break these rules, and the power they have if they follow the rules. 259 00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:32,460 ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: One of the things that I thought, listening to this speech, was that 260 00:18:32,460 --> 00:18:36,360 it was the beginning of translating a campaign agenda to a governing agenda. 261 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:40,730 And President Trump is heading into the toughest part of his year. 262 00:18:40,730 --> 00:18:45,400 It's easy to give a speech and it's easy to improve on a speech, but it's really hard to 263 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,910 lead, as we've seen, on the toughest issues. 264 00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:54,360 Whether it's health care or tax reform or overhauling the bank regulations or getting 265 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:58,470 anyone to buy on to a trillion dollars in infrastructure, that's tough. 266 00:18:58,470 --> 00:19:01,870 But I was listening, and still the president doesn't like the idea that there are 267 00:19:01,870 --> 00:19:05,760 tradeoffs and pain, and he was not setting the stage for that. 268 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:10,600 And there are lawmakers who are - they don't want to be the ones to walk the point and 269 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,030 take that, they want him to do it. So we'll - you know, we're entering into a 270 00:19:14,030 --> 00:19:16,790 phase where we're going to see something different from him. 271 00:19:16,790 --> 00:19:20,540 ROBERT COSTA: Where's the bill, though? You had Democrats taunting House Republicans, 272 00:19:20,540 --> 00:19:24,230 trying to search for this bill. And it wasn't just Democrats; Senator Rand Paul came 273 00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:27,470 over to the other side of the Capitol trying to find this health care bill. 274 00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:30,940 It seems like, Dan, even though the president is letting Congress fill in the details, no 275 00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:33,330 one really knows the details. 276 00:19:33,330 --> 00:19:36,770 DAN BALZ: No, nobody - well, everybody knows principles; nobody knows the details. 277 00:19:36,770 --> 00:19:41,180 And as we saw with President Obama when they went through the health care effort eight 278 00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:46,820 years ago, it's the nitty-gritty aspect. Those tradeoffs that you're talking about, 279 00:19:46,820 --> 00:19:51,020 what are the choices you have to make? And nobody quite wants to bite the bullet on 280 00:19:51,020 --> 00:19:54,980 that, and the president certainly in that speech didn't come close to doing that. 281 00:19:54,980 --> 00:19:58,190 MICHAEL SCHERER: There's two big legislative things he's trying to push this year. 282 00:19:58,190 --> 00:20:02,330 First is Obamacare repeal and replace. The second is a big business tax cut and a 283 00:20:02,330 --> 00:20:05,920 re-envisioning, if House Republicans have their way, of the whole way we do corporate 284 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,960 taxation. In both cases, if you just tried to count the votes right now among 285 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,620 Republicans - and they control both the House and Senate - they don't really have it. 286 00:20:15,620 --> 00:20:19,290 Now, that doesn't mean they won't get there, but what it does mean is that it looks like 287 00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:23,890 the leadership in the House, maybe also in the Senate and the White House, are going to 288 00:20:23,890 --> 00:20:29,160 create some sort of a binary crisis moment for their own party in which they will present 289 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,250 a take-or-leave-it bill. And it is possible, I mean, that it passes, everything 290 00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:36,100 goes great, he has a successful first term. 291 00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:39,310 But it's also very possible that, you know, a Republican president with a Republican 292 00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:42,210 House and Senate ends this year without real legislative accomplishment. 293 00:20:42,210 --> 00:20:45,020 ROBERT COSTA: Alexis, do you really think this is going to be the case, that even with 294 00:20:45,020 --> 00:20:47,420 Republicans having majorities in both the House and the Senate, Trump - President Trump 295 00:20:47,420 --> 00:20:49,470 may have to govern by crisis? 296 00:20:49,470 --> 00:20:52,810 ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: In the reporting that I've done there are suggestions that this is 297 00:20:52,810 --> 00:20:57,320 actually potentially more likely than getting really comprehensive health care reform, 298 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,570 repeal and replace, and tax reform in the same year. Maybe the president could 299 00:21:01,570 --> 00:21:06,210 get all the way to the summer and all he's got is a Supreme Court seat filled. 300 00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:10,360 ROBERT COSTA: Thanks, everybody. We're all watching with anticipation. 301 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:15,270 We have a short show tonight so we can give you the opportunity to support the stations 302 00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:19,800 that support Washington Week, but our conversation continues on the Washington Week 303 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,190 Extra, where we will tell you about the Evangelical pastor who prayed at President 304 00:21:24,190 --> 00:21:28,360 Trump's inauguration and is now offering a, quote, "safe haven" for undocumented 305 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:32,440 immigrants. You can find that later tonight and all weekend long at 306 00:21:32,440 --> 00:22:05,370 PBS.org/WashingtonWeek. I'm Robert Costa. Good night.