WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.830 align:start ROBERT COSTA: It is complicated. Attorney General Jeff Sessions steps away from all 00:05.830 --> 00:11.020 align:start probes into Russian meddling in the 2016 election. I'm Robert Costa. 00:11.020 --> 00:15.630 align:start We explain where the investigations go from here, tonight on Washington Week. 00:15.630 --> 00:21.200 align:start ATTORNEY GENERAL JEFF SESSIONS: (From video.) Let me be clear: I never had meetings with 00:21.200 --> 00:26.480 align:start Russian operatives or Russian intermediaries about the Trump campaign. 00:26.480 --> 00:30.560 align:start ROBERT COSTA: President Trump stands by his attorney general, saying he is an honest 00:30.560 --> 00:34.460 align:start man, and calling the controversy over his meetings with a Russian diplomat 00:34.460 --> 00:37.230 align:start a politically motivated witch hunt. 00:37.230 --> 00:40.230 align:start HOUSE MINORITY LEADER NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): (From video.) The fact that the attorney 00:40.230 --> 00:45.360 align:start general, the top cop in our country, lied under oath to the American people is grounds 00:45.360 --> 00:47.780 align:start for him to resign. 00:47.780 --> 00:51.710 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But a leading Republican and Trump supporter has joined with Democrats, 00:51.710 --> 00:56.270 align:start calling for an independent prosecutor to investigate potential ties between Trump 00:56.270 --> 00:58.870 align:start associates and Russia. 00:58.870 --> 01:01.580 align:start REPRESENTATIVE DARRELL ISSA (R-CA): (From video.) You're going to need to use the 01:01.580 --> 01:03.750 align:start special prosecutors statute. 01:03.750 --> 01:07.290 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Are the investigations into Russia stalling President Trump's ambitious 01:07.290 --> 01:11.680 align:start agenda? We get answers and analysis from Dan Balz of The Washington Post, 01:11.680 --> 01:16.230 align:start Alexis Simendinger of Real Clear Politics, Michael Scherer of TIME Magazine, 01:16.230 --> 01:22.000 align:start Mark Mazzetti of The New York Times, and Ellen Nakashima of The Washington Post. 01:22.000 --> 01:28.400 align:start ANNOUNCER: Celebrating 50 years, this is Washington Week. 01:28.400 --> 01:33.770 align:start Once again, from Washington, Robert Costa of The Washington Post. 01:33.770 --> 01:38.240 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Good evening. The stock market soared to a record-setting high 01:38.240 --> 01:43.030 align:start following President Trump's confident speech to a joint session of Congress on Tuesday. 01:43.030 --> 01:48.190 align:start But it was news about Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Russia that dominated the week. 01:48.190 --> 01:53.040 align:start The Washington Post, my newspaper, broke the story that Sessions met at least twice with 01:53.040 --> 01:57.700 align:start the same Russian diplomat whose interactions with former National Security Advisor 01:57.700 --> 02:02.670 align:start Michael Flynn led to Flynn's resignation. Sessions denied having any meetings with 02:02.670 --> 02:06.510 align:start any Russian envoys during his confirmation hearing last month. 02:06.510 --> 02:10.560 align:start On the same day, on the front page, The New York Times broke another story, that 02:10.560 --> 02:15.020 align:start officials in the Obama administration actively worked to preserve intelligence about 02:15.020 --> 02:20.070 align:start Russia's interference in the presidential election. Joining me on the latest on 02:20.070 --> 02:24.680 align:start Russia and the investigations are Ellen Nakashima, my colleague at the Post, and Mark 02:24.680 --> 02:29.340 align:start Mazzetti of The New York Times. Ellen, where exactly do these investigations go from 02:29.340 --> 02:33.170 align:start here, in particular with regard to the Justice Department? 02:33.170 --> 02:37.470 align:start ELLEN NAKASHIMA: Well, right now, with Jeff Sessions having recused himself, the 02:37.470 --> 02:43.820 align:start oversight of the investigation falls to his deputy. Acting deputy attorney general 02:43.820 --> 02:48.730 align:start is Dana Boente, who's a 33-year career prosecutor from the Eastern District of 02:48.730 --> 02:53.560 align:start Virginia who was appointed by President Obama. He's an Obama holdover, confirmed by 02:53.560 --> 02:59.400 align:start the Senate, and he's widely respected within the - within the Justice Department. 02:59.400 --> 03:06.600 align:start Now, we're expecting a new deputy, Rod Rosenstein, to be the next deputy attorney 03:06.600 --> 03:11.910 align:start general. His confirmation hearing is up for next week. He, too, is a holdover from 03:11.910 --> 03:16.750 align:start the Obama administration, and not only that, was - is the longest-serving U.S. 03:16.750 --> 03:21.090 align:start attorney, having been appointed U.S. attorney first by George W. Bush. 03:21.090 --> 03:28.100 align:start I think the Justice Department is going to argue that they can handle the investigation 03:28.100 --> 03:33.560 align:start without the need of a special prosecutor or appointing someone outside the department. 03:33.560 --> 03:37.260 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Ellen, what's the likelihood, though, of a special prosecutor? 03:37.260 --> 03:40.360 align:start What could make it happen inside of the Justice Department? 03:40.360 --> 03:44.710 align:start ELLEN NAKASHIMA: Well, in fact, it is up to the Justice Department and the attorney 03:44.710 --> 03:48.480 align:start general - and then I guess in this case would be the deputy attorney general - to decide 03:48.480 --> 03:52.780 align:start whether or not to appoint a special prosecutor. It's not up to Congress. 03:52.780 --> 03:59.420 align:start And there is just a lot of institutional pressure here or prerogative to keep the 03:59.420 --> 04:04.730 align:start investigation within the department, where they feel that they have the career attorneys 04:04.730 --> 04:11.050 align:start with the independence to conduct an impartial investigation free from any conflict of interest. 04:11.050 --> 04:14.750 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Mark, you've done a lot of deep reporting this week on how it's not just 04:14.750 --> 04:18.610 align:start the Justice Department that's looking into this issue about Russia and interference and 04:18.610 --> 04:23.680 align:start connections to the Trump campaign. It's foreign governments. What have we seen from them? 04:23.680 --> 04:28.570 align:start MARK MAZZETTI: Well, one of the things we reported this week was that in the months - 04:28.570 --> 04:33.500 align:start the final months of the Obama administration, officials were receiving reports from 04:33.500 --> 04:40.970 align:start allied governments in Europe talking about contacts between Trump associates and 04:40.970 --> 04:49.160 align:start Russians. And these reports were kind of coming in in a stream over time, and they 04:49.160 --> 04:53.450 align:start were adding to what the United States intelligence community and law enforcement 04:53.450 --> 04:56.320 align:start had already - had already collected. 04:56.320 --> 05:01.260 align:start And there was this sort of scramble in the final days of the Obama administration to 05:01.260 --> 05:04.960 align:start preserve some of this information because they weren't sure what was going to happen 05:04.960 --> 05:09.020 align:start after January 20th, once the Trump administration took over. 05:09.020 --> 05:13.440 align:start One of the interesting things is also there's this lag time, where the reports may have 05:13.440 --> 05:19.440 align:start come in over the summer - there are communications, there's information to sift through - 05:19.440 --> 05:23.550 align:start but it may be weeks or months before some of this is looked at. 05:23.550 --> 05:27.610 align:start So even in the final days of the Obama administration, people were still seeing some of 05:27.610 --> 05:32.560 align:start these new reports, which sort of added to a little bit of the hysteria about what might 05:32.560 --> 05:35.120 align:start be out there in terms of the connections. 05:35.120 --> 05:37.870 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Mark, when I was reading your story in the Times, I kept wondering who are 05:37.870 --> 05:41.190 align:start these other Trump campaign associates that may be under scrutiny. Is it Paul Manafort, 05:41.190 --> 05:44.620 align:start the former campaign chairman for the president? Is it Carter Page, a former foreign 05:44.620 --> 05:48.690 align:start policy advisor? Who's really on the radar right now of these investigations? 05:48.690 --> 05:51.580 align:start MARK MAZZETTI: Well, we are still trying to learn more. 05:51.580 --> 05:57.610 align:start We've reported in the past that Paul Manafort, Carter Page and a few others are under 05:57.610 --> 06:04.760 align:start scrutiny, and it is - it is - you know, we're trying to find as much as possible out 06:04.760 --> 06:11.720 align:start about the FBI and Senate investigations. There are, you know, a growing number of - 06:11.720 --> 06:16.600 align:start as we're learning this week, of contacts that we are now reporting on publicly 06:16.600 --> 06:21.830 align:start between Trump advisors, Trump campaign surrogates, et cetera, and Russians. 06:21.830 --> 06:26.340 align:start So we're trying to sort of figure out how much of what we're learning this week on some 06:26.340 --> 06:32.120 align:start of these public contacts are adding to what the FBI and the Senate are already looking 06:32.120 --> 06:36.380 align:start at, but it's still at this point a little bit hard to figure out. 06:36.380 --> 06:39.410 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Ellen, it's not just the investigators who are trying to find out more; 06:39.410 --> 06:42.880 align:start it's the lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House 06:42.880 --> 06:47.120 align:start Intelligence Committee, he's pushing FBI Director James Comey for more information. 06:47.120 --> 06:49.830 align:start A lot of lawmakers feel like they're flying blind. 06:49.830 --> 06:53.550 align:start ELLEN NAKASHIMA: Yeah, that's right. A lot of lawmakers, and in particular the 06:53.550 --> 06:58.410 align:start Democrats, are feeling frustrated that they're not getting as much information from 06:58.410 --> 07:03.310 align:start the director, from Comey, as they feel they should, given that they are members of 07:03.310 --> 07:07.440 align:start the oversight committee, the House Intelligence Committee in particular. 07:07.440 --> 07:13.540 align:start And I think part of it is, you know, maybe Comey feeling that when he briefs the 07:13.540 --> 07:18.350 align:start committee and if he briefs them fully, some of this information will leak out into the 07:18.350 --> 07:22.090 align:start public domain, and so there is that sort of tension there. 07:22.090 --> 07:26.630 align:start Nonetheless, I think committee members feel that they - in particular the rank and file - 07:26.630 --> 07:30.400 align:start that they're not getting as much information as they're owed. 07:30.400 --> 07:34.370 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Mark, just a quick - to finish, is - the congressional side of this is a 07:34.370 --> 07:38.060 align:start little bit complicated. The Republicans control the committees in the Senate and 07:38.060 --> 07:42.090 align:start the House. What can we expect, especially from the Senate Intelligence Committee? 07:42.090 --> 07:46.790 align:start MARK MAZZETTI: I mean, it seems right at the moment that the Senate side is where the 07:46.790 --> 07:49.670 align:start more serious investigation is going on. 07:49.670 --> 07:54.380 align:start There seems to be greater bipartisan commitment to getting to the bottom of this, and 07:54.380 --> 07:58.270 align:start there's greater commitment on both Republicans and Democrats. 07:58.270 --> 08:02.560 align:start What we saw this week was a war of words, a sort of public spat between the two leaders 08:02.560 --> 08:06.840 align:start of the House Intelligence Committee, and it just sort of signaled that they're not on the 08:06.840 --> 08:10.510 align:start same page, although they did subsequently come out and say that they are going to be 08:10.510 --> 08:14.370 align:start investigating it. But it does appear that the Senate is farther along on this. 08:14.370 --> 08:16.560 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Really appreciate your reporting. 08:16.560 --> 08:20.410 align:start Thanks so much, Ellen Nakashima, my colleague, and Mark Mazzetti of The New York Times. 08:20.410 --> 08:23.520 align:start Speaking of the congressional side of this, I just got off the phone about an hour ago 08:23.520 --> 08:26.550 align:start with the House Intelligence Committee chairman, Devin Nunes, and I'm telling you it's a 08:26.550 --> 08:29.790 align:start war of words from some of these Republicans and Trump allies. 08:29.790 --> 08:33.280 align:start They think they're under siege from what they call the deep state, the embedded 08:33.280 --> 08:38.340 align:start bureaucrats they put it, inside of the State Department or the CIA or the FBI. 08:38.340 --> 08:43.000 align:start As the whole administration feels under siege, Alexis, how can they ever get out from 08:43.000 --> 08:46.890 align:start this shadow, politically and within the administration? 08:46.890 --> 08:50.500 align:start ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: Well, listening to Mark and Ellen, I think we all, you know, can 08:50.500 --> 08:53.670 align:start figure out why the administration is so concerned. 08:53.670 --> 08:57.190 align:start Because they don't control the narrative, they don't control the information, there are 08:57.190 --> 09:00.540 align:start investigations now in the executive branch and in the legislative branch, there are 09:00.540 --> 09:04.430 align:start international governments and intelligence communities assisting. 09:04.430 --> 09:08.310 align:start And as you point out, the intelligence is coming out from within the U.S. 09:08.310 --> 09:14.220 align:start government to a fourth estate that the president can denounce, but cannot control. 09:14.220 --> 09:20.590 align:start So what seems to be the case, based on the way the White House is reacting, is that they 09:20.590 --> 09:25.160 align:start would like to use denial. They would like to use politics. 09:25.160 --> 09:30.610 align:start They would like to use distraction and are trying to do all of those things, and point to 09:30.610 --> 09:33.670 align:start hypocrisy, for instance, on Capitol Hill. 09:33.670 --> 09:38.200 align:start But one of the things that has unnerved folks inside the White House is that there are 09:38.200 --> 09:43.130 align:start advisors to the president who don't - were not aware of some of this information. 09:43.130 --> 09:48.550 align:start The White House today repeated that the bottom line is that Donald Trump had zero contact 09:48.550 --> 09:51.610 align:start with the Russians, and they are trying to just stick to that. 09:51.610 --> 09:55.010 align:start If the narrative changes, then all bets are off. 09:55.010 --> 09:58.370 align:start MICHAEL SCHERER: What's interesting is those tactics of denying, attacking the 09:58.370 --> 10:02.630 align:start messenger, work in a political space where - actually worked pretty well for Trump during 10:02.630 --> 10:06.660 align:start the campaign, when he was able to take all kinds of incoming and then turn it around on 10:06.660 --> 10:11.170 align:start Twitter and throw it back in his opponents' faces. He started that strategy during 10:11.170 --> 10:14.810 align:start the campaign. Right after the campaign, in an interview with TIME, he said he 10:14.810 --> 10:18.490 align:start didn't believe that the intelligence community was being honest about who had 10:18.490 --> 10:21.810 align:start leaked the emails - with the Russian involvement with the emails. He said he 10:21.810 --> 10:26.300 align:start thought they were politically motivated. He was declaring war in December on this community. 10:26.300 --> 10:30.880 align:start And he's been losing the war. I mean, the fact that Sessions now has to recuse 10:30.880 --> 10:34.890 align:start himself, the fact that he lost Mike Flynn, his national security advisor. 10:34.890 --> 10:38.110 align:start And so I think there is a limit to that tactic. 10:38.110 --> 10:44.070 align:start You can - you can - if you're going up against a dark organization, basically - we don't 10:44.070 --> 10:49.090 align:start know the names of who's speaking here - who have facts that can incriminate your people 10:49.090 --> 10:53.530 align:start and contradict what you have said, you are in the weaker position. 10:53.530 --> 10:57.640 align:start And it'll be interesting to see how the White House deals with this in the coming weeks. 10:57.640 --> 11:00.760 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But it's not just leaks, right, Dan? I mean, you have an attorney 11:00.760 --> 11:04.450 align:start general who was then a senator, Jeff Sessions, meeting with the ambassador from Russia, 11:04.450 --> 11:08.360 align:start choosing to do so, and then fumbling, in some ways, during his testimony. 11:08.360 --> 11:12.450 align:start And then you had Jared Kushner, the son-in-law, meet with then-incoming National Security 11:12.450 --> 11:15.540 align:start Advisor Flynn in December with the Russian ambassador. So it seems like the 11:15.540 --> 11:18.660 align:start administration is not just being leaked on, it's making conscious choices. 11:18.660 --> 11:21.340 align:start DAN BALZ: Well, I mean, a couple of things. Let me pick up on something that 11:21.340 --> 11:25.160 align:start Alexis said, which is this administration doesn't know what it doesn't know. 11:25.160 --> 11:29.560 align:start And so it gets surprised and therefore it's reactive. They need, in some way or 11:29.560 --> 11:34.810 align:start another, to do their own internal inventory and investigation, and put it out. 11:34.810 --> 11:40.200 align:start It will be - it will be greeted skeptically because it will look like an inside job, but 11:40.200 --> 11:44.690 align:start nonetheless, it would allow them to know more about what's going on. 11:44.690 --> 11:49.450 align:start The fact that then-Senator Sessions met with the Russian ambassador, there's nothing 11:49.450 --> 11:54.260 align:start particular nefarious about that on its face. Ambassadors in the middle of a 11:54.260 --> 11:58.600 align:start presidential campaign are trying to learn everything they can about the possible 11:58.600 --> 12:04.340 align:start next president. And so Jeff Sessions was the highest elected official in the 12:04.340 --> 12:08.310 align:start United States who was close to Donald Trump. He is a natural person for any 12:08.310 --> 12:12.550 align:start ambassador to go to, to try to get a sense of Trump's worldview, his worldview. 12:12.550 --> 12:17.840 align:start The idea that Sessions fumbled that question so badly when he was asked about it in his 12:17.840 --> 12:21.130 align:start confirmation hearings is inexplicable. 12:21.130 --> 12:26.090 align:start He can try to explain it away now, but for whatever reason he either didn't think on his 12:26.090 --> 12:29.840 align:start feet or he felt that there was something that they wanted to hide. 12:29.840 --> 12:34.490 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Is Sessions in deep trouble here? Some Democrats are calling on him to resign. 12:34.490 --> 12:37.870 align:start MICHAEL SCHERER: I think for the time being, without further information coming out, 12:37.870 --> 12:41.120 align:start it's very unlikely that he'll be forced to resign. I think we're in a political 12:41.120 --> 12:44.610 align:start environment where it's not surprising that the opposition party is calling on a 12:44.610 --> 12:49.280 align:start wounded Cabinet official to resign. That said, the fact that he has had to pull 12:49.280 --> 12:54.350 align:start himself back from what is one of the most central jobs of the agency he runs 12:54.350 --> 12:59.810 align:start means he's been weakened. And, you know, again, it's what we don't know that 12:59.810 --> 13:03.310 align:start will get them. I think, you know, what Dan said is right. 13:03.310 --> 13:09.680 align:start These kinds of contacts - you know, the idea that intelligence assets of Russia are 13:09.680 --> 13:13.220 align:start having contacts with the Trump administration could be very nefarious. 13:13.220 --> 13:17.490 align:start We could be talking about actual spies having secret conversations about things they 13:17.490 --> 13:21.320 align:start don't want out. It's also true that there are a lot of intelligence assets of 13:21.320 --> 13:24.480 align:start Russia who are basically above board. You know, they live in the United States. 13:24.480 --> 13:27.890 align:start We know who they are. They work for think tanks. They work for the embassy. 13:27.890 --> 13:31.890 align:start And they go around schmoozing. They make contacts. They gather information. 13:31.890 --> 13:35.260 align:start They build relationships. We do the same thing in other countries. 13:35.260 --> 13:38.390 align:start And I think the question we're going to have to find out - go ahead. 13:38.390 --> 13:41.490 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And it wasn't just - it wasn't really the meeting that was political 13:41.490 --> 13:44.790 align:start trouble for the Trump administration, it was the fact - because Kislyak, the Russian 13:44.790 --> 13:48.240 align:start ambassador, he meets with people in Washington all of the time. It's the testimony 13:48.240 --> 13:52.210 align:start for Sessions. I mean, do you feel like they have any strategy moving forward, Alexis? 13:52.210 --> 13:55.740 align:start Bannon stayed behind, the chief strategist, to work with Reince Priebus on Thursday to 13:55.740 --> 13:59.000 align:start try to figure something out. What's their strategy moving forward? 13:59.000 --> 14:02.100 align:start ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: Well, the strategy is containment, at least for the time being. 14:02.100 --> 14:05.230 align:start But I want to pick up on what Dan was saying, because inside the White House, their 14:05.230 --> 14:08.560 align:start argument is, this makes no sense. We've denied this. 14:08.560 --> 14:12.730 align:start We have conceded that Russia has been meddling and did that in 2016, in the election. 14:12.730 --> 14:17.030 align:start But if we were trying to do something or create a deal, the Russians have gotten nothing 14:17.030 --> 14:20.450 align:start out of it. That's the argument to reporters and publicly. 14:20.450 --> 14:26.160 align:start But what Dan is suggesting is, if that's your argument why is everyone forgetting this 14:26.160 --> 14:32.160 align:start prominent diplomat, forgetting their meetings, not mentioning meeting in Trump Tower, 14:32.160 --> 14:37.760 align:start trying to wall the president off? So the containment can only work as long as the 14:37.760 --> 14:43.070 align:start story doesn't change. And what we've seen for months - for months, and definitely 14:43.070 --> 14:47.610 align:start in the last six weeks - is that it's almost changing every day. 14:47.610 --> 14:51.290 align:start DAN BALZ: I think another aspect of this is, you know, on the one hand you have a very 14:51.290 --> 14:56.010 align:start big story - which is that the Russian interfered in the U.S. election. 14:56.010 --> 15:00.040 align:start There's an investigation that's going to try to get to the bottom of that - a public 15:00.040 --> 15:04.360 align:start investigation in one form or another. Then you have the overlay on that of what 15:04.360 --> 15:11.280 align:start role, if any, did Trump campaign officials, associates, hangers-on, whoever, have 15:11.280 --> 15:15.710 align:start in terms of conversations with the Russians? We know there were contacts. 15:15.710 --> 15:19.920 align:start We don't know what was said. We don't know exactly who all was involved in that. 15:19.920 --> 15:23.940 align:start I mean, there are so many unanswered questions that will have to get answered. 15:23.940 --> 15:26.890 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And unanswered questions about even how the investigations are going to 15:26.890 --> 15:29.520 align:start move forward. Is there a special prosecutor or not? 15:29.520 --> 15:32.850 align:start It almost feels like a month ago, but let's not forget the big news earlier this week. 15:32.850 --> 15:36.450 align:start The president delivered his mission statement to a joint session of Congress. 15:36.450 --> 15:41.020 align:start He laid out an ambitious agenda, including a major boost in military spending and a push 15:41.020 --> 15:44.130 align:start to quickly repeal and replace Obamacare. 15:44.130 --> 15:48.440 align:start PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) Mandating every American to buy 15:48.440 --> 15:53.540 align:start government-approved health insurance was never the right solution for our country. 15:53.540 --> 16:04.450 align:start (Cheers, applause.) The way to make health insurance available to everyone is to lower 16:04.450 --> 16:10.210 align:start the cost of health insurance. And that is what we are going to do. 16:10.210 --> 16:14.100 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Dan, a lot of Republicans came into Statuary Hall following that speech, 16:14.100 --> 16:18.150 align:start and they say they like what they heard. But on health care, the big issue for Republicans, 16:18.150 --> 16:22.160 align:start there just doesn't seem a clear consensus. Yes, tax credits. Yes, Tom Price 16:22.160 --> 16:25.950 align:start is taking the lead. But the big - the big idea on it seems to be a little muddled. 16:25.950 --> 16:29.030 align:start DAN BALZ: Well, it's been muddled for quite a while, and they haven't been able to 16:29.030 --> 16:33.950 align:start resolve that, frankly. And what the president did on Tuesday night was something 16:33.950 --> 16:37.460 align:start that certainly the Republican leadership wanted to hear. 16:37.460 --> 16:41.480 align:start He embraced essentially the - kind of the establishment Republican plan. 16:41.480 --> 16:45.270 align:start But as you know, there are conservative Republicans who are not happy with this plan, who 16:45.270 --> 16:50.040 align:start are desperate to find more details. We know that governors on the Republican side 16:50.040 --> 16:53.500 align:start are split between those states that expanded Medicaid and those that didn't. 16:53.500 --> 16:56.040 align:start And they're wary of one another. 16:56.040 --> 16:59.970 align:start And who's going to lead - who's going to lead them out of this quandary? 16:59.970 --> 17:04.320 align:start Is it going to be President Trump, which I suspect some Republicans would like to see? 17:04.320 --> 17:10.520 align:start On the other hand, he seems to be more anxious to have the House leaders or the Senate 17:10.520 --> 17:14.520 align:start leaders take the - take the lead on this. So there's just so much work that 17:14.520 --> 17:18.050 align:start has to be done to get to the starting line of the legislative process. 17:18.050 --> 17:20.850 align:start MICHAEL SCHERER: The other thing that - the other thing that Trump was able to 17:20.850 --> 17:24.940 align:start successfully showcase Tuesday night was that he could embody the office of the president 17:24.940 --> 17:30.900 align:start in a normal and unifying way. That speech was very much Trump in terms of policy. 17:30.900 --> 17:34.610 align:start A lot of Americans didn't agree with it. But almost everyone who watched that 17:34.610 --> 17:38.130 align:start speech recognized a president speaking before a joint session of Congress. 17:38.130 --> 17:41.380 align:start And after the speech, when they went back to the White House, the staff was truly 17:41.380 --> 17:45.150 align:start delighted. And I think the president, I've heard, was also delighted, because 17:45.150 --> 17:50.020 align:start he's realizing the levers of his own power, his own ability to control his office. 17:50.020 --> 17:53.820 align:start And it's not by breaking the rules. In that case, he wasn't breaking the rules. 17:53.820 --> 17:57.720 align:start He was following the rules, following what you do in a speech like that. 17:57.720 --> 18:01.200 align:start And then immediately we get off on this Russia thing the following day. 18:01.200 --> 18:05.820 align:start And now we're back in a space where he's tweeting about investigations of Chuck Schumer 18:05.820 --> 18:09.960 align:start for a public meeting with, you know, Putin 13 years ago. 18:09.960 --> 18:13.870 align:start I mean, we're back in sort of the silly part of the Trump campaign. 18:13.870 --> 18:17.350 align:start And I think one of the other decisions they're going to have to make - not just with the 18:17.350 --> 18:21.070 align:start Russia stuff, not just with the legislative agenda they have - but is how much they 18:21.070 --> 18:24.950 align:start decide to abandon what they've seen as their strength in the past, which is their ability 18:24.950 --> 18:29.190 align:start to break these rules, and the power they have if they follow the rules. 18:29.190 --> 18:32.460 align:start ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: One of the things that I thought, listening to this speech, was that 18:32.460 --> 18:36.360 align:start it was the beginning of translating a campaign agenda to a governing agenda. 18:36.360 --> 18:40.730 align:start And President Trump is heading into the toughest part of his year. 18:40.730 --> 18:45.400 align:start It's easy to give a speech and it's easy to improve on a speech, but it's really hard to 18:45.400 --> 18:48.910 align:start lead, as we've seen, on the toughest issues. 18:48.910 --> 18:54.360 align:start Whether it's health care or tax reform or overhauling the bank regulations or getting 18:54.360 --> 18:58.470 align:start anyone to buy on to a trillion dollars in infrastructure, that's tough. 18:58.470 --> 19:01.870 align:start But I was listening, and still the president doesn't like the idea that there are 19:01.870 --> 19:05.760 align:start tradeoffs and pain, and he was not setting the stage for that. 19:05.760 --> 19:10.600 align:start And there are lawmakers who are - they don't want to be the ones to walk the point and 19:10.600 --> 19:14.030 align:start take that, they want him to do it. So we'll - you know, we're entering into a 19:14.030 --> 19:16.790 align:start phase where we're going to see something different from him. 19:16.790 --> 19:20.540 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Where's the bill, though? You had Democrats taunting House Republicans, 19:20.540 --> 19:24.230 align:start trying to search for this bill. And it wasn't just Democrats; Senator Rand Paul came 19:24.230 --> 19:27.470 align:start over to the other side of the Capitol trying to find this health care bill. 19:27.470 --> 19:30.940 align:start It seems like, Dan, even though the president is letting Congress fill in the details, no 19:30.940 --> 19:33.330 align:start one really knows the details. 19:33.330 --> 19:36.770 align:start DAN BALZ: No, nobody - well, everybody knows principles; nobody knows the details. 19:36.770 --> 19:41.180 align:start And as we saw with President Obama when they went through the health care effort eight 19:41.180 --> 19:46.820 align:start years ago, it's the nitty-gritty aspect. Those tradeoffs that you're talking about, 19:46.820 --> 19:51.020 align:start what are the choices you have to make? And nobody quite wants to bite the bullet on 19:51.020 --> 19:54.980 align:start that, and the president certainly in that speech didn't come close to doing that. 19:54.980 --> 19:58.190 align:start MICHAEL SCHERER: There's two big legislative things he's trying to push this year. 19:58.190 --> 20:02.330 align:start First is Obamacare repeal and replace. The second is a big business tax cut and a 20:02.330 --> 20:05.920 align:start re-envisioning, if House Republicans have their way, of the whole way we do corporate 20:05.920 --> 20:10.960 align:start taxation. In both cases, if you just tried to count the votes right now among 20:10.960 --> 20:15.620 align:start Republicans - and they control both the House and Senate - they don't really have it. 20:15.620 --> 20:19.290 align:start Now, that doesn't mean they won't get there, but what it does mean is that it looks like 20:19.290 --> 20:23.890 align:start the leadership in the House, maybe also in the Senate and the White House, are going to 20:23.890 --> 20:29.160 align:start create some sort of a binary crisis moment for their own party in which they will present 20:29.160 --> 20:33.250 align:start a take-or-leave-it bill. And it is possible, I mean, that it passes, everything 20:33.250 --> 20:36.100 align:start goes great, he has a successful first term. 20:36.100 --> 20:39.310 align:start But it's also very possible that, you know, a Republican president with a Republican 20:39.310 --> 20:42.210 align:start House and Senate ends this year without real legislative accomplishment. 20:42.210 --> 20:45.020 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Alexis, do you really think this is going to be the case, that even with 20:45.020 --> 20:47.420 align:start Republicans having majorities in both the House and the Senate, Trump - President Trump 20:47.420 --> 20:49.470 align:start may have to govern by crisis? 20:49.470 --> 20:52.810 align:start ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: In the reporting that I've done there are suggestions that this is 20:52.810 --> 20:57.320 align:start actually potentially more likely than getting really comprehensive health care reform, 20:57.320 --> 21:01.570 align:start repeal and replace, and tax reform in the same year. Maybe the president could 21:01.570 --> 21:06.210 align:start get all the way to the summer and all he's got is a Supreme Court seat filled. 21:06.210 --> 21:10.360 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Thanks, everybody. We're all watching with anticipation. 21:10.360 --> 21:15.270 align:start We have a short show tonight so we can give you the opportunity to support the stations 21:15.270 --> 21:19.800 align:start that support Washington Week, but our conversation continues on the Washington Week 21:19.800 --> 21:24.190 align:start Extra, where we will tell you about the Evangelical pastor who prayed at President 21:24.190 --> 21:28.360 align:start Trump's inauguration and is now offering a, quote, "safe haven" for undocumented 21:28.360 --> 21:32.440 align:start immigrants. You can find that later tonight and all weekend long at 21:32.440 --> 22:05.370 align:start PBS.org/WashingtonWeek. I'm Robert Costa. Good night.