WEBVTT 00:01.433 --> 00:04.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Battle lines drawn in the debt ceiling debate. 00:04.133 --> 00:09.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOE BIDEN, U.S. President: I will protect social security and Medicare, guaranteed. 00:10.600 --> 00:12.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: President Biden unveils his proposed budget, 00:12.933 --> 00:15.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% a likely preview of his re-election priorities. 00:15.433 --> 00:17.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to shrink Washington and 00:17.400 --> 00:19.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% grow America. His budget would do the opposite. 00:19.833 --> 00:22.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: As a powerful wing of the House GOP 00:22.300 --> 00:25.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% issues its new demands ahead of the debt ceiling deadline. 00:25.733 --> 00:27.733 align:left position:40% line:89% size:50% Plus -- 00:27.733 --> 00:30.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): We will never ever surrender to the woke mob. 00:30.500 --> 00:33.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: -- top Republican presidential contenders make 00:33.033 --> 00:35.933 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% their pitches in a critical state, next. 01:31.000 --> 01:34.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Good evening and welcome to Washington Week. I'm Amna Nawaz. 01:34.500 --> 01:39.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Early battle lines are emerging between Democrats and Republicans as the deadline to raise the debt 01:41.600 --> 01:45.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ceiling looms. In a speech in Philadelphia, President Biden unveiled his proposed spending 01:48.333 --> 01:50.766 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% plan for the next fiscal year while previewing his priorities heading into the 2024 election cycle. 01:52.666 --> 01:57.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% $6.8 trillion budget would increase military spending and a wide range of 01:59.233 --> 02:02.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% new social programs. It also aims to reduce future budget deficits by nearly $3 trillion 02:04.966 --> 02:08.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% over the next decade through savings and tax increases on corporations and the very 02:08.566 --> 02:13.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% wealthiest Americans. And it funds Medicare by taxing households earning over $400,000. 02:15.233 --> 02:19.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% The president issued this challenge to Speaker Kevin McCarthy. 02:19.100 --> 02:23.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOE BIDEN: I am ready to meet with the speaker any time, tomorrow if he has his 02:23.566 --> 02:27.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% budget. Lay it down, tell me what you want to do. I'll show you what I want to do, 02:27.166 --> 02:30.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% see where we can agree on or we don't agree on. Let's see what we vote on. 02:30.533 --> 02:35.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: But the House Freedom Caucus, a critical voting bloc Speaker McCarthy needs, 02:37.400 --> 02:40.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% announced what they are argue are necessary rollbacks to government spending. 02:40.366 --> 02:45.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): The only thing is responsible is for government to actually its 02:47.333 --> 02:50.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% belt tighten. Inflation is caused by massive overspending by the federal government. 02:52.366 --> 02:56.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The only way for America to grow is for Washington to shrink. 02:58.800 --> 03:01.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Among their demands, ending the president's student loan forgiveness program, 03:03.300 --> 03:05.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% tougher work requirements for welfare recipients, 03:05.300 --> 03:10.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% taking back billions in unspent COVID-19 funds, money for IRS for tax enforcement 03:12.333 --> 03:15.966 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and from climate change spending, and a near freeze on discretionary spending for ten years. 03:17.933 --> 03:22.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Joining me to discuss this and more, Peter Baker, Chief White House Correspondent for 03:24.733 --> 03:27.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% The New York Times, Laura Barron-Lopez, White House Correspondent for the PBS Newshour, 03:27.700 --> 03:32.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and Leigh Ann Caldwell, co-Author of The Washington Post Early 202 and Anchor for 03:34.166 --> 03:36.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Washington Post Live. Welcome to you all. Thanks for being here. 03:36.766 --> 03:41.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So, let's just start with this fact, Laura, that a budget is a statement of values. It is a wish 03:43.566 --> 03:46.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% list, right? But what does this particular budget from President Biden tell us about 03:46.833 --> 03:51.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% his priorities and also how the White House sees their position, their leverage right now? 03:51.533 --> 03:53.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, White House Correspondent, PBS Newshour: So, as you said, Amna, this is a 03:53.566 --> 03:58.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% big wish list from the president. He is trying to show to the American public 04:00.533 --> 04:03.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% what he wants to get done if they re-elect him and if they potentially re-elect Democrats to 04:05.666 --> 04:08.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% majorities in the House and keep them in the majority in the Senate. And so that 04:08.700 --> 04:13.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% includes a big ask that he had already made in the first two years about universal pre-K, 04:15.666 --> 04:19.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% free college tuition, also trying to extend the child tax credit again. 04:21.833 --> 04:25.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And he is also, though, doing some things on-- more spending on defense, 04:27.933 --> 04:30.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% more spending at the border. They asked for more on that too, because, of course, 04:30.000 --> 04:34.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he is trying to protect himself against attacks from GOP on those two issues. 04:34.300 --> 04:39.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But all of that being said, the president right now is trying to show the public that 04:41.300 --> 04:46.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% this is what he wants to do if he is re-elected and he thinks Democrats can 04:48.100 --> 04:49.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% run on all of these issues and that the public sentiment is on his side. 04:49.833 --> 04:53.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Peter, that message on deficit reduction in particular, 04:53.700 --> 04:57.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that was the headline coming out of the White House, that struck me because that has been a 04:57.100 --> 05:01.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% core Republican message. Why is the White House leaning into that so much right now? 05:01.666 --> 05:04.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% PETER BAKER, Chief White House Correspondent, The New York Times: Yes. I think they're trying 05:04.200 --> 05:06.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to basically outflank the Republicans, right? Because, remember, didn't care too much about 05:06.300 --> 05:11.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% deficit spending when Trump was in office and rolling up $7 trillion worth of new debt, 05:13.233 --> 05:15.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but they care about it when a Democrat is in the White House. And it's a good 05:15.166 --> 05:17.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% issue for them because it goes to their core constituency and it kind of unites 05:17.800 --> 05:20.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% them at a time where they're divided, right, between the Trumpers and the non-Trumpers. 05:20.933 --> 05:25.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But what President Biden is trying to do here is, fine, okay, I will meet you there. I'll do some 05:25.833 --> 05:30.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% deficit. Let me do it my way by taxing the rich. And, in effect, he is trying to kind of reclaim in 05:30.233 --> 05:35.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a way his more centrist persona, I think, where he's speaking to the values of middle Americans 05:37.666 --> 05:40.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% rather than necessarily just the progressives, by talking about the deficits, and in recent weeks, 05:40.800 --> 05:45.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% talk about the D.C. crime bill, which he said was too extreme for him to soften penalties, 05:45.600 --> 05:49.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and immigration at the border, talking about how to toughen enforcement down there. 05:49.366 --> 05:53.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Leigh Ann, when you look at the proposals from that House Freedom Caucus, 05:53.033 --> 05:56.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% that is a wing of the party that almost cost Kevin McCarthy his 05:56.800 --> 06:01.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% speakership. Have we heard from him on what he thinks of these proposals? 06:01.000 --> 06:03.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, Early 202 Co-Author, The Washington Post: Well, it's actually 06:03.066 --> 06:06.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% really interesting that the Freedom Caucus came out with their proposals today. And the 06:06.100 --> 06:10.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% reason is because they are the first ones to come out with something concrete among House 06:10.666 --> 06:15.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans. And so they are laying their stakes of where they stand and what they 06:17.633 --> 06:20.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% want earlier than anyone else, trying to move the conversation and the debate toward them. 06:20.200 --> 06:25.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Meanwhile, what's also simultaneously happening and has been happening for a few 06:25.000 --> 06:30.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% weeks now is the Republican whip, Tom Emmer, the number in the House of Representatives, 06:31.933 --> 06:35.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he obviously has to count the votes, get the votes of whatever comes through. He has been 06:37.066 --> 06:40.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% holding listening sessions with Republicans in small groups to find out what they need not only 06:43.033 --> 06:46.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in the budget but on the debt limit as well. And so while he is holding these listening sessions, 06:46.200 --> 06:50.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% trying to see what they can compromise on, the freedom caucus has come out with their 06:50.400 --> 06:55.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% demands. And so it just shows how difficult and tricky this is going to be for Speaker McCarthy. 06:57.200 --> 07:00.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Is this -- we talk about whether Republicans and Democrats can 07:00.066 --> 07:03.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% come together on some kind of compromise on the budget. Is there a bigger challenge 07:03.633 --> 07:07.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% on whether just Republicans can come together on their own proposed budget? 07:07.400 --> 07:10.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% PETER BAKER: Yes, I think that is exactly right, they're not united. As Leigh Ann just talked, 07:10.233 --> 07:15.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I mean, they do not have a single core belief here. And the problem with what McCarthy has laid 07:17.766 --> 07:21.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in terms of what he wants to do to balance the budget ten years without touching social security, 07:21.233 --> 07:25.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% without touching Medicare, without defense spending, that is really hard to do. You 07:25.366 --> 07:30.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% really can't get there. People just don't remember how much of our budget is spent, how much of our 07:30.166 --> 07:34.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% money is spent on those three core things and on interest debts, where you cannot reduce. 07:34.000 --> 07:36.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, what are you going to do? You cut -- our analysts looked at it. So, 07:36.633 --> 07:39.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% you have to cut 70 percent of everything else, right? 07:39.266 --> 07:41.566 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: 70% of what's left from discretion? 07:41.566 --> 07:44.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% PETER BAKER: Everything else, veterans care, transportation, 07:44.100 --> 07:47.133 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% education. All the other things the government does would have to 07:47.133 --> 07:50.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% be scaled back dramatically and they have not explained how they want to do that. 07:50.200 --> 07:52.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: And one other thing, 07:52.233 --> 07:55.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the thing that McCarthy did say, because I didn't answer your question, is -- 07:55.166 --> 07:56.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Thanks for coming back to that, by the way. 07:58.866 --> 08:02.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: The Republican budget was supposed to be out April 15th. That is what 08:02.033 --> 08:05.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% leadership told me several weeks ago. And McCarthy now says that that's going to be 08:05.800 --> 08:10.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% delayed probably a few weeks into May. And that is a challenge for them not only for timing but 08:12.800 --> 08:15.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% also it's going to be delayed in large part because they need to come to an agreement. 08:15.733 --> 08:20.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And that gives the president essentially ammunition to go after them, 08:22.733 --> 08:24.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% by saying, look, I've put out my budget, I've put out my priorities. Just today, 08:24.800 --> 08:28.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we heard Shalanda Young, the head of the Office of Management and Budget, out there talking to 08:28.800 --> 08:33.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% reporters saying, we are waiting for them to say what they are going to prioritize, 08:36.333 --> 08:38.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% how they are going to effectively issue these cuts. If they are going to stick to their promise, 08:41.166 --> 08:44.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% which McCarthy has said, we are not going to touch social security and Medicare, and then after that, 08:46.133 --> 08:48.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they will start having conversations and see where they can go from there. 08:48.233 --> 08:50.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: I mean, this is a tough question, but the president has said over and over again, 08:50.866 --> 08:55.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I am ready to meet with Speaker McCarthy when they have a budget. Given where we are now, seeing the 08:57.733 --> 09:00.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% president's budget, seeing the opening volley from the House Freedom Caucus, which certainly 09:00.433 --> 09:04.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% tie Speaker McCarthy's hands in some way, what is that first conversation going to look like? 09:04.400 --> 09:07.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, they have had somewhat of that conversation already, 09:07.666 --> 09:11.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? But it's going to be difficult because I'm sure that President Biden is going to be 09:11.866 --> 09:16.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% asking over and over again, well, do you have the votes? If you ultimately agree 09:16.200 --> 09:21.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to something with me, is he rest of your conference going to vote for it? 09:21.100 --> 09:26.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And, ultimately, Democrats may have to come over and provide the remaining votes because when we 09:28.166 --> 09:31.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% get to the debt ceiling conversation, which is what this is ultimately all about, and whether 09:31.066 --> 09:35.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% or not the country goes over the fiscal cliff and defaults on its debts, there are a number of 09:35.800 --> 09:40.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans that do not want to vote for anything, whether it's a clean debt ceiling increase or 09:42.700 --> 09:46.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% anything to fund the government. So, that's going to be for McCarthy to get those votes. 09:48.133 --> 09:50.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Leigh Ann, when you look at the timeline, I mean, looking ahead to the debt 09:50.266 --> 09:55.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ceiling debate, we know there is a hard date coming in summer when they are going to have two 09:55.066 --> 10:00.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% raise that debt ceiling. I will tell you, senior Republicans insist to me over and over again, we 10:00.033 --> 10:03.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% are not going to go over that fiscal cliff. They will avoid that. Is that what you are hearing? 10:03.933 --> 10:08.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: Yes. That is what Republicans say. That's what McCarthy has said. That is what 10:08.100 --> 10:13.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% most Republicans say, I should say. But how they get there is the hard part, and that is 10:15.666 --> 10:19.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% what's going to be most difficult. It's going to come -- I mean, President Biden wants to separate 10:21.933 --> 10:25.366 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% these two issues of the debt limit and government funding. House Republicans do not. And that is 10:25.366 --> 10:30.366 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% where the challenge is. If you can't even agree what you're going to vote on or the contours of 10:32.200 --> 10:35.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it, it makes it very, very difficult. And then, of course, you have the Senate too. 10:37.100 --> 10:40.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I will say, though, there is a little bit of a realization among some in the more far-right 10:43.200 --> 10:47.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% faction of the party who is realizing that they are not going to get everything that they want, 10:48.700 --> 10:52.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% but that is not all of them. And it's going to take a lot of education 10:52.400 --> 10:55.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and a lot of work from Republican leadership to get people on board. 10:55.700 --> 10:59.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: It's really something we are going to follow very closely in the weeks ahead. 10:59.066 --> 11:04.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Meanwhile, we should say, Republican 2024 hopefuls this week set their sights on the 11:05.966 --> 11:08.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% key state of Iowa. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has yet to officially 11:08.500 --> 11:12.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% enter the race but he did make his first stop to Iowa to test-run his message. 11:12.800 --> 11:17.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% RON DESANTIS: We say very clearly in the state of Florida we will 11:17.100 --> 11:22.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% never ever surrender to the woke mob. Our state is where woke goes to die. 11:23.966 --> 11:27.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Former President Donald Trump will visit Iowa on Monday where 11:27.633 --> 11:32.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% his support has lagged. A new Des Moines Register/Mediacom Iowa poll today shows 11:34.533 --> 11:36.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% percentage of Iowa Republicans who say they would definitely vote for 11:36.700 --> 11:41.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Trump if he were the nominee has plummeted more than 20 points since June of 2021. 11:43.766 --> 11:47.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Peter, those numbers, when you look at them, it was 69 percent of Iowa Republicans, 11:47.233 --> 11:52.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in June 2021, now it is 47 percent of Iowa Republicans. It's still pretty strong, 11:54.166 --> 11:56.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? But what does that number say to you at this stage of the game? 11:56.300 --> 11:58.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% PETER BAKER: Well, it says that there is a weakness there, and he knows that, 11:58.333 --> 12:00.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? That is why he is getting out there now. He has not done very much since he 12:00.833 --> 12:05.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% announced his candidacy for a second term, and he is watching DeSantis breathing down 12:05.566 --> 12:09.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% his neck. DeSantis hasn't announced a thing and he's already a pretty strong competitor. 12:09.633 --> 12:14.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Now, Donald Trump has the advantage of numbers, right? He doesn't need 50 percent if there are 12:16.733 --> 12:20.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% eight, nine, ten other candidates out there. We saw that in 2016. He had 16 other candidates. He 12:20.200 --> 12:23.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% won with the plurality of the votes in these early primaries. That is all you need. So, 12:23.566 --> 12:26.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% he is counting on people getting in. In fact, he said that, the more the merrier, 12:26.933 --> 12:29.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because he's trying to them (INAUDIBLE), because he knows the ceiling, right? There 12:29.966 --> 12:32.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are a certain number of Republicans who are just not going to vote for him and are 12:32.333 --> 12:35.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% really tired of looking for somebody else, and that's a real problem for them. And, 12:35.633 --> 12:39.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of course, you add the risk of indictment, which now seems to be looming from multiple 12:39.833 --> 12:44.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% sources who know that's going to affect things. So, it is a pretty volatile moment. 12:44.300 --> 12:47.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And when you look at those numbers, you dig down into the latest poll there, 12:47.300 --> 12:52.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% they have favorability ratings for many of the candidates, Leigh Ann. Trump's favorability is 12:54.833 --> 12:56.966 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% still among the highest among Republicans there. He is on par with Ron DeSantis. He is way ahead 12:56.966 --> 13:00.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of Nikki Haley and Mike Pence. How do you look at the field right now? What are you hearing? 13:03.466 --> 13:06.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: The field seems to be Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis of that lane of the party, 13:08.866 --> 13:12.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% kind of the Trump far-right, the MAGA Republican, which Ron DeSantis is trying to peel off that 13:14.633 --> 13:19.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% base. And then you kind of have everyone else who is going to be fighting for votes. 13:19.000 --> 13:23.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But I will say, it is really, really early. Every single election cycle, there is always 13:23.200 --> 13:28.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a frontrunner very early on and then that frontrunner very rarely becomes the nominee. 13:30.166 --> 13:33.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% PETER BAKER: President Scott Walker, right, or Rand Paul, or any of them. 13:35.733 --> 13:38.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: Right. Walker jumped in the race in 2015. I had a baby. I came 13:38.566 --> 13:42.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% off from maternity leave, and he was gone out of the race. So, that's how. 13:42.500 --> 13:43.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: That's how we marked (INAUDIBLE). 13:43.700 --> 13:44.433 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: Right, exactly. 13:46.466 --> 13:50.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, I just think that it is the base that you need to win a primary. And if any of 13:52.433 --> 13:54.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% these other candidates, Nikki Haley or the other ones that are going to jump in, 13:54.966 --> 13:59.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% if they can cut into that, there is - - the concern among some Republicans, 13:59.666 --> 14:04.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which we've talked about before is that too many candidates will dilute the field. 14:06.700 --> 14:09.766 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: We hear this again and again, Laura, right? Everyone -- well, not everyone. There 14:09.766 --> 14:14.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are a number of Republicans who maybe want to run themselves who say, you know what, 14:17.333 --> 14:21.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a crowded field is going to hurt us again, it will clear the way for Mr. Trump to win the plurality 14:23.666 --> 14:26.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% instead of a majority. That is why Larry Hogan decided not to run. It was his stated reason. But, 14:26.700 --> 14:31.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I guess, at this stage, when you look at where folks are -- there was the never Trump wing, 14:34.133 --> 14:36.966 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% right? There is now the kind of thank you, next wing. But is there an organized anti-Trump effort 14:39.000 --> 14:41.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of any kind for people who don't believe he should be the Republican nominee? 14:41.933 --> 14:46.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The short answer is no. I mean, there are a number of Republicans, as Leigh 14:49.066 --> 14:52.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Ann and Peter said, that are trying to say, look, it is time to move on. I mean, that is the whole 14:54.833 --> 14:57.966 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% reason that you see Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haleys of the world running. But when it comes down to 14:59.733 --> 15:02.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% their policies and when it comes down to their core messages, 15:02.200 --> 15:05.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% they are nearly identical to the former president. 15:05.733 --> 15:10.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And so there may be a conversation about are they done with the man himself, is the party 15:10.533 --> 15:15.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% done with the man himself, potentially, although there is no one that is forcefully trying to 15:17.500 --> 15:21.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% distance themselves from Trump. Ron DeSantis is running on a platform of anti-transgender, 15:23.466 --> 15:27.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% anti-LGBTQ legislation. Florida just introduced a six-week abortion ban, 15:29.133 --> 15:34.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that if a woman -- that gives an exemption for rape and incest, but the woman has to 15:36.666 --> 15:39.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% provide proof, official proof, documentation of that, and Ron DeSantis said that he supports it. 15:39.333 --> 15:43.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I was just talking to a Republican strategist who -- in a swing state who said that, 15:43.900 --> 15:48.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% yes, that type of messaging and platform may work in a primary, 15:48.100 --> 15:51.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it is not going to necessarily work in a general election in these swing states. 15:51.900 --> 15:55.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: And, Leigh Ann, I talked to both Larry Hogan and Asa Hutchinson this week, 15:55.133 --> 15:58.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and Chris Sununu has said the same thing. The next nominee, they say, 15:58.300 --> 16:03.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% has to be someone who can broaden the appeal, right, who can broaden the Republicans' support 16:05.200 --> 16:08.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% beyond that MAGA base. Is there a moderate candidate that your Republican sources say 16:10.766 --> 16:13.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they would get behind eventually? Is there anyone who stands out to you? 16:13.833 --> 16:18.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: That is the challenge. What candidate can get through a Republican 16:20.733 --> 16:24.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% primary but also win a general election? And that is the challenge that there is 16:24.166 --> 16:28.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right now. I talked to a lot of Republicans on Capitol Hill. Everyone has different 16:28.500 --> 16:33.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ideas. I will say, a lot of people do not or want someone other than Trump. 16:35.500 --> 16:38.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% So, official Washington is looking for something else, even though he still does 16:38.500 --> 16:43.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have a lot of support among the base. We analyze this. And Trump-endorsed over 160 16:45.933 --> 16:50.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% people in the 2022 midterms and only two dozen so far have endorsed him to-date. And so he 16:53.800 --> 16:58.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% does -- people are starting to look elsewhere. Who that person, that is just the big question. 17:00.866 --> 17:03.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% PETER BAKER: What's amazing actually is that there's -- we always talk about Trump lane 17:03.000 --> 17:06.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and a non-Trump lane, but there's only a Trumpism lane, right? To Laura's point, 17:06.766 --> 17:11.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they are all running for the same candidates. They're all running as the same candidate 17:11.133 --> 17:16.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% except the personality of the former president himself. I can be Trump without the baggage. 17:18.166 --> 17:21.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% That is what DeSantis' message is, right? If you like Trump, if you like his policies, if 17:21.166 --> 17:26.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you like the anti-woke culture war kind of thing, I am your guy without the indictments, right? I'm 17:28.133 --> 17:32.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the guy without January 6th. I'm the guy who can move on and take this next generation. And 17:34.900 --> 17:37.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DeSantis gets it at age 44, I think, right? He is half the age of Biden. He can make a generational 17:39.933 --> 17:41.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% argument. But he's not running in a different lane than Trump. He's running in the same lane. 17:41.733 --> 17:44.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: You don't see a ton of support from 17:44.933 --> 17:47.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% other senior Republicans for Ron DeSantis either, right? 17:47.300 --> 17:50.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% PETER BAKER: No. But, I mean, you talked about Asa, like for instance. Asa Hutchinson, a very 17:50.633 --> 17:55.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% respected governor, former governor of Arkansas. He was one of the impeachment managers for Bill 17:55.066 --> 18:00.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Clinton. That's when he came to fame. He's nowhere. Guys like him don't have an appeal 18:02.666 --> 18:04.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because they do not have that visceral connection, right, with the core base. And the question is 18:04.700 --> 18:08.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for the people of the Bush wing of the party, for instance, are they willing to get behind 18:08.100 --> 18:12.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% people like DeSantis? Very interesting to see Jeb Bush, for instance, to say that he thought 18:12.166 --> 18:16.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DeSantis is doing a good job, not an endorsement, he made clear, but he said nice things about him. 18:16.700 --> 18:20.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LAURA BARRON LOPEZ: Yes. Another data point that just speaks to what we are talking about 18:20.200 --> 18:25.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in terms of is the Republican Party beyond Trump himself versus Trumpism is the whole 18:27.200 --> 18:29.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% conversation around January 6th, and the fact that the Republican Party as a whole -- I mean, 18:29.700 --> 18:34.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the candidates that are potentially running do not call Trump out about January 6th, do not confront 18:36.833 --> 18:39.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% him about the fact that he said the Constitution should be terminated. There are Republicans beyond 18:39.600 --> 18:44.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% just Marjorie Taylor Greene on the Hill that are saying, we want to take a trip to the jails 18:44.400 --> 18:49.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to see January 6th defendants and essentially revise history on January 6th. So, the party 18:51.900 --> 18:56.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% as a whole is just essentially excusing Trump on January 6rh and trying to revise history, Amna. 18:58.100 --> 19:00.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: You've made my segue for me, which is want to -- before we go, 19:00.800 --> 19:05.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I want to ask about the fact that we have seen a revision of history unfold on Fox. Tucker Carlson, 19:07.033 --> 19:09.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we know, got access to that security footage and has been kind of rewriting 19:09.633 --> 19:14.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what happened on that day and claiming that it was peaceful falsely on January 6th. 19:14.566 --> 19:18.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Look, we all know the role the media plays. We know the role that Fox has played in particular 19:18.400 --> 19:22.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in pushing the false claim that the 2020 election was stolen. And we know a lot 19:22.966 --> 19:26.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of this is as a result of the new filings from that Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit. 19:26.933 --> 19:31.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I want to share one of those text messages that was revealed as part of those filings. This is 19:31.366 --> 19:36.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% from Tucker Carlson on January 4th, 2021 to a colleague talking about then-President Trump, 19:39.166 --> 19:43.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% rather, saying, quote, we are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most 19:43.433 --> 19:48.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% nights. I truly can't wait. Followed by then saying, quote, I hate him passionately. 19:50.400 --> 19:53.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Peter, knowing what we know now about these private -- the private contempt for Mr. Trump, 19:55.733 --> 19:58.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% privately dismissing the election fraud claims while publicly pushing them, 19:58.733 --> 20:02.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% publicly supporting him, does any of this make a dent in the Fox base? 20:02.266 --> 20:04.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% PETER BAKER: Well, it's a good question. Because, basically, 20:04.233 --> 20:07.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what we have learned from this is how much Fox is afraid of their own viewership, 20:07.500 --> 20:10.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? And in some ways, it's the same way with Trump. Trump is almost afraid of his 20:10.966 --> 20:15.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% own base to some extent too. Why did he not brag about vaccines when he could have said, 20:15.033 --> 20:19.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% this is my biggest accomplishment? Because the base booed him at a rally. He became afraid 20:19.233 --> 20:24.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of his own people. And that's where Fox is too. They don't want to alienate their own viewership. 20:25.866 --> 20:27.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% We got a hold at The New York Times, we got hold of an audiotape, 20:27.933 --> 20:32.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% this meeting that Fox executives had with some of the anchors after the Arizona call in 2020, 20:34.966 --> 20:37.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in which they're all antsy about the fact that they were taking so much blowback. How can we make 20:37.600 --> 20:41.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a call in a state without getting this blowback from our viewers? That is not what journalism is 20:41.733 --> 20:45.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% supposed to be. But they are so captive to that. And I think that's been the big revelation. Does 20:45.800 --> 20:49.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it make a difference? I don't know. Most Fox viewers are not watching the Dominion lawsuit. 20:49.700 --> 20:50.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% AMNA NAWAZ: Laura, how do you see it? 20:53.166 --> 20:55.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Whether it makes a difference with the base, yes, I don't think we really know 20:55.833 --> 21:00.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% yet. When I was at CPAC and I asked people there about what was coming out in Dominion, they either 21:02.800 --> 21:07.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% said, well, they excused it and then said I still believe Trump, I still believe the election was 21:09.600 --> 21:14.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% stolen and they didn't necessarily say that they were going to stop watching Fox either. 21:17.066 --> 21:19.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I think that when we look at what Fox did and what so many of these hosts did, I mean, it is very 21:22.200 --> 21:26.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% clearly propaganda. That's what it is. Because they were deciding to prioritize their profit 21:31.300 --> 21:35.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and what they thought would be profitable, which was telling their viewers what they wanted to hear 21:35.866 --> 21:40.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% versus what the actual facts were, and they're promoting conspiracy theories. And one example 21:40.433 --> 21:45.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% of that was also Rupert Murdoch in those filings, we saw -- revealed that he wanted to help Jared 21:47.833 --> 21:51.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Kushner. And so that was why he also revealed then-Candidate Biden's ads, ad buys, ahead of when 21:55.566 --> 21:59.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% they were released because he said he wanted to help his friend. That is not a news organization. 21:59.666 --> 22:01.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: Leigh Ann, I'll give you the last word. We've 22:01.200 --> 22:03.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% got 30 seconds left. What is your take on this? 22:03.300 --> 22:07.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: I mean, I just think that it really shines a light on what is 22:09.833 --> 22:12.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% happening behind the scenes. I think that looking at Fox, we as journalists look at 22:14.900 --> 22:18.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it much differently now. Now it was clear that they knew what the truth was but they decided 22:21.033 --> 22:25.966 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to ignore it. And I think that they should have a huge credibility issue on their hands. 22:25.966 --> 22:29.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% We will see where this goes. And, ultimately, I don't know, though, 22:29.100 --> 22:33.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% legally, it's enough for Dominion to win this lawsuit. I am not a lawyer. 22:33.566 --> 22:36.166 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% AMNA NAWAZ: We'll see where this goes. Thank you to you all. 22:36.166 --> 22:40.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% That is Washington week for tonight. Thank you so much to our panel for 22:40.066 --> 22:43.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% joining us and for sharing your reporting. Thanks to all of you for watching at home. 22:43.966 --> 22:48.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And be sure to watch PBS News Weekend for the latest on the millions nationwide who 22:51.500 --> 22:54.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% are at risk of losing their Medicaid coverage as the COVID public health emergency winds down. 22:55.400 --> 22:57.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% I'm Amna Nawaz. Good night from Washington.