WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.110 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: Vice President Mike Pence meets British Prime Minister Boris Johnson as 00:04.110 --> 00:10.900 align:start Brexit chaos brews, and Hong Kong's government reacts to protests. This is the Washington 00:10.900 --> 00:18.700 align:start Week Extra. And I'm Pete Williams, in for Robert Costa who is away on assignment. 00:18.700 --> 00:22.940 align:start Joining me tonight, Peter Baker, chief White House correspondent for The New York Times; 00:22.940 --> 00:27.120 align:start Yamiche Alcindor, White House correspondent for the PBS NewsHour; and Philip Rucker, the 00:27.120 --> 00:30.080 align:start White House bureau chief for The Washington Post. 00:30.080 --> 00:34.550 align:start Vice President Pence wrapped up a weeklong visit to Europe on Thursday with a visit to 00:34.550 --> 00:40.120 align:start Prime Minister Boris Johnson at Number 10 Downing Street. Their exchange focused on trade. 00:40.120 --> 00:43.910 align:start VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: (From video.) I'm grateful for your hospitality. 00:43.910 --> 00:48.370 align:start I spoke to President Trump this morning, your friend, and he asked me to send you his 00:48.370 --> 00:54.470 align:start very best greetings and to assure you that the United States supports the United 00:54.470 --> 00:58.410 align:start Kingdom's decision to leave the European Union. 00:58.410 --> 01:04.030 align:start But he also wanted me to convey that the United States is ready, willing, and able to 01:04.030 --> 01:07.710 align:start immediately negotiate a free-trade agreement with the U.K. 01:07.710 --> 01:10.290 align:start BRITISH PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON: (From video.) The U.S. economy is a - is a 01:10.290 --> 01:15.640 align:start wonderful, massive opportunity for the U.K. I know that you guys are pretty tough 01:15.640 --> 01:20.130 align:start negotiators, so we're going - we're going to work very hard to make sure that that 01:20.130 --> 01:24.230 align:start free-trade deal is one that works for all sides. 01:24.230 --> 01:28.750 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: Blue tie day at Number 10. The prime minister is pushing for Brexit at 01:28.750 --> 01:33.660 align:start all costs, even if it means leaving the European Union without a deal in place. 01:33.660 --> 01:38.910 align:start He faces opposition inside and outside his Conservative Party and is weakened politically 01:38.910 --> 01:43.830 align:start in Britain. And meantime, in Hong Kong pro-democracy protesters took to the streets 01:43.830 --> 01:48.740 align:start even though Hong Kong's leader withdrew the extradition bill that ignited the months of 01:48.740 --> 01:53.470 align:start protests in the first place. With a China trade deal still unresolved and talks 01:53.470 --> 01:58.200 align:start scheduled to resume soon, President Trump has been fairly muted in his comments on the 01:58.200 --> 02:04.540 align:start situation in Hong Kong. So let's start with Brexit first. Boris had a pretty bad week. 02:04.540 --> 02:10.120 align:start He's going to have to have a general election. It'll be after the Brexit deadline, and 02:10.120 --> 02:16.260 align:start the Parliament did not accept his idea of pushing through with a no-deal Brexit before 02:16.260 --> 02:21.850 align:start the deadline. So does the - what's the U.S. interest in all of this? 02:21.850 --> 02:26.810 align:start How do we care how it ends up? What's the - what's the stake for the U.S. in this fight? 02:26.810 --> 02:29.560 align:start PETER BAKER: Yeah, it's really interesting. First of all, it may be the first week in 02:29.560 --> 02:33.300 align:start a long time in which Washington, as you said, seemed kind of calm and stable by 02:33.300 --> 02:37.920 align:start comparison to another world capital. This is a prime minister who is obviously 02:37.920 --> 02:41.480 align:start struggling, the first one in a century to lose his first vote in Parliament. 02:41.480 --> 02:45.990 align:start He lost Winston Churchill's grandson from his party. He lost his own brother from his 02:45.990 --> 02:52.420 align:start government. That's a pretty tough week. I don't know that - you know, President Trump's 02:52.420 --> 02:56.480 align:start interest is basically in weakening the European Union. He sees the European Union as 02:56.480 --> 03:02.090 align:start an adversary, not an ally. He's said that repeatedly, a trade adversary. 03:02.090 --> 03:06.530 align:start So he's not in favor of anything that keeps it strong. He thinks that Britain should 03:06.530 --> 03:10.220 align:start get out because then they can have their own separate trade deal. 03:10.220 --> 03:15.850 align:start But largely it's part of his sort of nationalist populist, you know, view of politics 03:15.850 --> 03:20.290 align:start these days. You know, he's on the side of those in Europe who are emphasizing their 03:20.290 --> 03:24.280 align:start own sovereignty, their own nationalism over integration and globalization. 03:24.280 --> 03:26.850 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: A funny thing about watching this. 03:26.850 --> 03:30.980 align:start You know, we talked about how much Congress is unwilling to buck President Trump on 03:30.980 --> 03:36.230 align:start anything, even if it means losing money for pet projects in their districts, and here we 03:36.230 --> 03:40.190 align:start have the British Parliament pushing back against their brand new prime minister. 03:40.190 --> 03:44.150 align:start Does that make you wish that we had a parliamentary system? 03:44.150 --> 03:46.560 align:start PHILIP RUCKER: It would be different here in Washington if we - 03:46.560 --> 03:48.630 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: It would be more interesting cover. 03:48.630 --> 03:50.560 align:start PHILIP RUCKER: Much more interesting to cover. 03:50.560 --> 03:53.780 align:start The prime minister's questions earlier this week was quite good television. 03:53.780 --> 03:58.120 align:start You know, look, it's a really difficult week for Prime Minister Johnson and a lot is on 03:58.120 --> 04:01.870 align:start the line personally for Trump in addition to what Peter talked about because Donald 04:01.870 --> 04:06.090 align:start Trump, President Trump, has staked so much on his personal relationship with Boris Johnson. 04:06.090 --> 04:10.620 align:start He helped advocate for him during the elections of just a month or two ago and has seen 04:10.620 --> 04:16.600 align:start this as a future, as like a Reagan and Thatcher partnership. And you know, if Johnson goes 04:16.600 --> 04:22.040 align:start down or if this all blows up over the next few weeks it could be very damaging for Trump. 04:22.040 --> 04:26.140 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: You were in the U.K. when the president made his trip there in June. 04:26.140 --> 04:32.240 align:start What did it look to you like the relationship between Trump and Boris Johnson was? 04:32.240 --> 04:35.560 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, at the time Theresa May was the prime minister, and that was - 04:35.560 --> 04:40.640 align:start and he - President Trump essentially said: I told Theresa May that she should do Brexit 04:40.640 --> 04:44.880 align:start with no deal, and she won't listen to me. So I think there was this - there was this 04:44.880 --> 04:49.260 align:start feeling that once he got the prime minister that he wanted that things would go more 04:49.260 --> 04:53.590 align:start smoothly. Obviously this week has taught us that that's not what's going to happen. 04:53.590 --> 04:57.280 align:start But I interviewed some members of Parliament at the time and they were essentially 04:57.280 --> 04:59.920 align:start reminding me, hey, this is Parliament. This is not Congress. 04:59.920 --> 05:03.350 align:start You will see fireworks here, and that's exactly what we've seen this week. 05:03.350 --> 05:08.470 align:start I think it's pretty telling that Boris Johnson's own party was willing to break with him. 05:08.470 --> 05:12.690 align:start And I think it made a lot of Republicans, I think, at least look at them and say, wow, I 05:12.690 --> 05:14.950 align:start wonder what that would look like here. 05:14.950 --> 05:18.040 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: Let me ask you each if you can make a prediction. 05:18.040 --> 05:22.230 align:start Is it pretty clear that the U.K. is going to go ahead with Brexit no matter what? 05:22.230 --> 05:27.190 align:start Or is it possible that Boris Johnson's problems could mean that Brexit is if not just 05:27.190 --> 05:30.230 align:start pushed way down the road, it just fades away? 05:30.230 --> 05:33.050 align:start PETER BAKER: (Laughs.) I think one thing the president taught us this week is that 05:33.050 --> 05:36.390 align:start making predictions is a hazardous thing. (Laughter.) The one thing more unpredictable 05:36.390 --> 05:40.540 align:start than a hurricane is British politics right now. I think anything is possible. 05:40.540 --> 05:43.820 align:start As a non-expert in British politics, it looks to me like anything is possible. 05:43.820 --> 05:46.760 align:start Obviously they feel they have this deadline coming up at the end of October. 05:46.760 --> 05:51.300 align:start Nobody, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, nobody has figured out how to unlock this puzzle. 05:51.300 --> 05:55.240 align:start You know, does this potentially lead back to a new referendum? That's the open question. 05:55.240 --> 05:59.550 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: The other thing that I'm curious about here is what would the 05:59.550 --> 06:05.180 align:start relationship between the U.S. and the U.K. be if it does come down to a trade deal? 06:05.180 --> 06:08.260 align:start Are we going to have a tariff battle with the U.K., then? 06:08.260 --> 06:10.370 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: I wouldn't put it past the president. 06:10.370 --> 06:14.320 align:start What we've seen, and what I've seen personally in covering him now for two G-7s, is the 06:14.320 --> 06:18.300 align:start president in some ways look at our allies and treat them as though they're not our 06:18.300 --> 06:23.660 align:start allies. I remember last year with G-7 him trading words with Justin Trudeau and 06:23.660 --> 06:26.140 align:start treating Canada as if they were adversaries. 06:26.140 --> 06:30.780 align:start This year at the G-7 the president was having a little bit less of a confrontational 06:30.780 --> 06:35.040 align:start experience, but the sense still was that everyone was waiting for the shoe to drop, and 06:35.040 --> 06:39.350 align:start everyone was on edge that the president might again attack his allies. 06:39.350 --> 06:44.110 align:start So I don't know what that would actually look like, but Boris Johnson hinted at it. 06:44.110 --> 06:47.920 align:start He said, you guys are tough negotiators. That tells you that Boris Johnson isn't 06:47.920 --> 06:51.050 align:start seeing a friend across the aisle that's going to give him a nice deal. 06:51.050 --> 06:54.810 align:start He's seeing someone who is going to stake his claim on putting America first. 06:54.810 --> 06:59.220 align:start And that's going to mean the U.K. will not be our friendly trading partner. 06:59.220 --> 07:01.940 align:start PETER BAKER: He also made clear, by the way, in Biarritz, right, when we were at the 07:01.940 --> 07:05.200 align:start G-7, that he's not akin to Trump on every point. 07:05.200 --> 07:08.310 align:start His point was, we actually think free trade is a good thing. 07:08.310 --> 07:12.300 align:start We have 200 years of good experience with free trade in Britain, which was what he called 07:12.300 --> 07:17.550 align:start a - what he called a sheepish, a sheep-like, you know, gentle rebuke to the president, 07:17.550 --> 07:21.400 align:start partly because it's not necessarily a good thing politically in Britain for him to be 07:21.400 --> 07:23.560 align:start seen as too close to President Trump. 07:23.560 --> 07:26.940 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: Philip, we saw some spectacular pictures from the Hong Kong protests. 07:26.940 --> 07:31.100 align:start And this extradition bill basically would have said - if it passed, it would have said 07:31.100 --> 07:35.250 align:start people charged with crimes in Hong Kong would be sent to China and put on trial in the 07:35.250 --> 07:38.660 align:start Chinese justice system, which was not very attractive to the protesters. 07:38.660 --> 07:43.110 align:start Were you surprised that the U.S. basically sat this one out? 07:43.110 --> 07:46.810 align:start PHILIP RUCKER: I'm not surprised that President Trump sat all of this out, because we've 07:46.810 --> 07:52.760 align:start not seen him take a stand on human rights issues or pro-democracy movements before, which 07:52.760 --> 07:57.860 align:start by the way is a real departure from past presidents, Democratic and Republican alike. 07:57.860 --> 08:03.150 align:start I was traveling with Trump in Bedminster, New Jersey a couple weeks ago and actually we 08:03.150 --> 08:06.870 align:start asked him in a press gaggle there, you know, what's going on in Hong Kong? What's your 08:06.870 --> 08:10.960 align:start response? Do you believe in what these protesters are advocating for, and the democracy 08:10.960 --> 08:14.820 align:start movement? And he had such a sort of mealy-mouthed answer. 08:14.820 --> 08:17.910 align:start He does not have clear, strong convictions on this. 08:17.910 --> 08:22.460 align:start He's thinking much more about the dynamics vis-a-vis President Xi, of his possible trade 08:22.460 --> 08:27.570 align:start deal with China, as opposed to a sort of ideological view about democracy. 08:27.570 --> 08:31.270 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: Well, could it also be that he was thinking about if he took a position 08:31.270 --> 08:33.930 align:start here how would it affect the negotiations with China? 08:33.930 --> 08:37.760 align:start PHILIP RUCKER: Exactly. Exactly. And that's paramount to him, as opposed to advocating 08:37.760 --> 08:43.020 align:start for human rights or for democracy movements just carte blanche around the world. 08:43.020 --> 08:46.670 align:start PETER BAKER: He's got a very consistent position on this. America first means we don't 08:46.670 --> 08:49.740 align:start interfere in other countries because we don't care how your governments treat you. 08:49.740 --> 08:53.880 align:start That's your problem. Saudi Arabia, China, any of these places. And it's consistent. 08:53.880 --> 08:56.840 align:start And I think there's - you know, it's inconsistent with the American tradition of other 08:56.840 --> 08:59.580 align:start presidents. But it's consistent with the views of a lot of Americans 08:59.580 --> 09:02.270 align:start who think we spend too much time policing the world. 09:02.270 --> 09:07.410 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: Does it seem feasible to you that we would have seen this backing down in 09:07.410 --> 09:12.930 align:start Hong Kong without the acquiescence of President Xi? What does it say about his calculation there? 09:12.930 --> 09:17.610 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: I'm not sure. I think it's remarkable to see the protesters have this 09:17.610 --> 09:22.120 align:start big win. I think we've seen protests all around the world. Sometimes they're successful. 09:22.120 --> 09:27.060 align:start Sometimes they're not. In Hong Kong's experience these protesters got what they want. 09:27.060 --> 09:30.760 align:start But I think what these protesters have also learned is that they have power now. 09:30.760 --> 09:35.820 align:start And that that might put Xi in a tough position because these protesters now have had time 09:35.820 --> 09:39.510 align:start to talk to each other and had time to say, well, what are the other things that we're not 09:39.510 --> 09:42.560 align:start happy about here? What are the other human rights violations that we should be 09:42.560 --> 09:46.020 align:start calling attention to? And that could put the president in a tough position. 09:46.020 --> 09:48.410 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: Although, it's one thing to see this in Hong Kong. 09:48.410 --> 09:51.300 align:start I would be quite another thing to see how the government would deal with it if it was in 09:51.300 --> 09:53.770 align:start mainland China itself, you all agree? 09:53.770 --> 09:55.850 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Yeah. PETER BAKER: Yeah, very much. 09:55.850 --> 09:58.560 align:start PETE WILLIAMS: All right. Thank you very much. That's it for this edition of the 09:58.560 --> 10:01.880 align:start Washington Week Extra. You can listen where you get your podcasts or watch on the 10:01.880 --> 10:06.610 align:start Washington Week website. And while you're online, check out the Washington Week-ly News 10:06.610 --> 10:24.220 align:start Quiz. I'm Pete Williams, in for Robert Costa. Thanks for joining us. See you next time.