WEBVTT 00:02.366 --> 00:04.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: President Biden still lags in the polls, but the news is generally good for 00:04.433 --> 00:09.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Democrats. Ballot measures protecting abortion win big this week in red and purple states. 00:11.400 --> 00:12.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SEAN HANNITY, Host, Fox News: Democrats are trying to scare women into thinking 00:12.900 --> 00:16.266 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Republicans still want abortion legal under any circumstances. 00:16.266 --> 00:18.300 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): We were told that 00:18.300 --> 00:22.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans would get tired of all the winning. Howús that working out? 00:22.300 --> 00:24.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: But a surprising announcement from a key Democrat 00:24.533 --> 00:27.033 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% throws the future of the Senate into question. 00:29.000 --> 00:30.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I will not be running for re-election to the United States Senate. 00:30.500 --> 00:31.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Next. 01:33.300 --> 01:37.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Itús been a busy week here and thereús much to discuss starting with Joe Manchinús 01:37.500 --> 01:42.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% announcement and the possibility that he might run for president as an independent. 01:42.366 --> 01:45.566 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Joining me to discuss this weekús developments are Eugene Daniels, 01:45.566 --> 01:50.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a White House correspondent for Politico, and the co-author of Politicoús playbook, 01:50.100 --> 01:55.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Asma Khalid is a White House correspondent for NPR, Ed OúKeefe is the senior White House 01:57.066 --> 02:00.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% correspondent and a political correspondent for CBS News, and David Brooks is a columnist 02:02.300 --> 02:04.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for The New York Times, a contributing writer at The Atlantic, and the author of 02:04.300 --> 02:09.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% How to Know a Person. So, thank you all for being here. David, welcome to the big time. 02:10.566 --> 02:11.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS, Columnist, The New York Times: Thank you. 02:11.800 --> 02:13.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: This is your -- yes. I mean, 02:13.900 --> 02:16.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% after years of trying out on the news hour, you finally made it. I hope youúre not too nervous. 02:16.733 --> 02:19.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: I am a Washington Week virgin. So -- 02:19.400 --> 02:22.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: You are. By the way, this is the latest youúve ever stayed up. So, congratulations. 02:22.666 --> 02:24.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Thank you for lowering your standards. 02:24.700 --> 02:26.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Thank you for being here. And weúre going to talk about How 02:26.733 --> 02:31.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to Know a Person tonight. And weúre going to start by asking David, how to know Joe 02:31.433 --> 02:36.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Manchin. How do we know Joe Manchin? David, why donút you start us off on this question? 02:36.200 --> 02:37.600 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Well, you tear deeply into his heart. 02:37.600 --> 02:39.233 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Yes, and his soul, right? 02:39.233 --> 02:42.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: And what you see is a guy looking at the White House. 02:42.100 --> 02:46.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: So, tell us, and I want to bring everybody into this conversation, 02:46.133 --> 02:48.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% obviously, but tell us what it means, Joe Manchinús announcement. 02:48.933 --> 02:51.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Yes, it means heús really interested in running for president. And 02:51.366 --> 02:55.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to run for president, youúve got to get on the ballot. And thereús an organization, 02:55.033 --> 02:58.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% No Labels, thatús getting on the ballot. And so No Labels hasnút 02:58.966 --> 03:03.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% decided. Larry Hogan has said that No Labels probably wants a Republican and not him, 03:03.433 --> 03:08.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% if they go ahead. But I think Joe Manchin sees a window and heús going for it. 03:10.266 --> 03:13.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so, you know, what interests me is the potential end of the two-party duopoly in 03:13.633 --> 03:18.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% presidential races. You could have a Manchin or Hogan in No Labels. You have Cornell West. 03:18.400 --> 03:21.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You have Jill Stein. You have Robert F. Kennedy. So we could have five candidates. 03:21.700 --> 03:26.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: I mean, the three you just named are not exactly juggernauts. Manchin, 03:26.666 --> 03:29.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% theoretically, could do something. But, you know, 03:29.733 --> 03:32.766 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% weúve seen this. I mean, Asma, weúve seen this before. 03:32.766 --> 03:35.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% ASMA KHALID, White House Correspondent, NPR: Yes, Youúve seen this in many elections. I think the 03:35.233 --> 03:39.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% challenge for Joe Biden, though, is that in, I guess, recent cycles, right, if we think of 2016, 03:41.300 --> 03:44.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% where Donald Trump did defeat Hillary Clinton, many, you know, political analysts would say, 03:44.133 --> 03:49.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% many of us who covered the election, that part of that loss was due to third party candidacies. 03:49.066 --> 03:54.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so I do think all of these potentials pose challenges to Joe Biden in major part, 03:56.166 --> 03:59.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% because if you look at polling, there are some challenges he faces from a group of key voters, 04:01.100 --> 04:03.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you know, key parts of his coalition, whether that is young voters, black voters. You see 04:03.800 --> 04:08.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% different parts of his base that seem to have lackluster enthusiasm for his candidacy. 04:10.766 --> 04:13.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: And talk a little bit about, if you want to push back on David -- I mean, 04:13.433 --> 04:18.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% itús his first time, so we would sort of mandatory to push back on him. But 04:19.533 --> 04:22.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% do you think that Joe Manchin could actually become president? 04:22.666 --> 04:27.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE, Senior White House Correspondent, CBS: Well, the answer to this question is show 04:29.533 --> 04:33.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% us how you get on the enough ballots to win 270 electoral votes. And unless or 04:35.033 --> 04:38.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% until No Labels or some other entity hires enough lawyers and signature gatherers in 04:38.833 --> 04:43.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% enough states to do this, itús just worthy of a conversation like this. 04:43.200 --> 04:46.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I think part of what you have to remember with Joe Manchin is, yes, he, 04:46.666 --> 04:51.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% like most of the Senate, has designs on the White House, but he also is perfectly happy 04:51.000 --> 04:55.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% having all of us just talk about him on Friday night because what he craves is 04:55.200 --> 04:59.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the attention that gives him the political capital to get things done in the Senate. 04:59.233 --> 05:01.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And if all he has left now is a year, well, 05:01.700 --> 05:05.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% thereús still things that are going to need to get done. And, yes, he will travel the country, 05:05.400 --> 05:09.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% talking to people who are eager to hear about how there is a middle out there 05:09.533 --> 05:13.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% thatús thoughts and prayers are not being addressed here in Washington. 05:13.333 --> 05:18.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But heús not actively engaged in the process of getting signatures and getting ballot 05:20.300 --> 05:23.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% access. And unless or until No Labels can demonstrate that, Iúm told by his people, 05:23.133 --> 05:27.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% heús not terribly interested in doing this. Heús also said recently to his team, 05:27.900 --> 05:30.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% if they think Larry Hogan is going to be the presidential candidate and Iúm going 05:30.800 --> 05:34.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to be the vice presidential candidate, they got another thing coming, Iúm not interested. 05:34.600 --> 05:37.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right. I mean, maybe this is just about the fact that he 05:37.666 --> 05:42.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% probably canút win his seat again in very, very, very red West Virginia. 05:44.633 --> 05:46.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS, White House Correspondent, Politico: That was very clear whoús going 05:46.700 --> 05:48.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to have an uphill battle. Thereús no other Democrat that could win in West 05:48.200 --> 05:49.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Virginia. And it was already clear he was going to have -- 05:49.833 --> 05:52.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Thatús literally true. Thereús literally not one 05:52.933 --> 05:55.100 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Democrat in West Virginia who could win. 05:55.100 --> 06:00.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS: And the White House tried to get him to stay in the Senate race. Now, 06:02.100 --> 06:06.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% thatús partly because they wanted him to try to do as much as he can so they could try to 06:06.500 --> 06:11.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% keep that Senate seat, but also because they know that he -- they didnút want him out there 06:11.000 --> 06:15.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% mucking it up for them as some kind of third party candidate either with No Labels or without them. 06:15.700 --> 06:20.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And I will say one thing I found interesting about his video that he released is that he 06:20.066 --> 06:24.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% talked about creating a movement. And thatús not really how movements are made. Movements 06:24.500 --> 06:29.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have to come from the ground up, right? Thereús not actually the center of political universe 06:31.400 --> 06:35.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% thatús coming around and saying, whereús my Joe Manchin, whereús my Larry Hogan? Thatús 06:35.300 --> 06:38.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not whatús happening, right? Like that is not what happened. The centrist is -- 06:38.766 --> 06:41.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Trump created a movement. There was no MAGA before 06:41.066 --> 06:43.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Donald Trump. But thereús only one Donald Trump. 06:43.900 --> 06:48.466 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS: Like Obama created a movement as well, 06:48.466 --> 06:51.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% but it comes from the people have to say, I like this person. 06:51.733 --> 06:54.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Let me ask you, what else did you notice about the -- 06:54.400 --> 06:56.766 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS: New haircut? 06:56.766 --> 07:01.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Presidential. Thereús our proof, very presidential haircut. 07:03.433 --> 07:04.966 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% EUGENE DANIELS: All you need, thatús a factorial choice, is all you need. 07:04.966 --> 07:07.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% ED OúKEEFE: And apparently youúve paint the Oval Office red. 07:07.066 --> 07:11.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: David, talk about what this means for the Senate. And youúve 07:13.000 --> 07:16.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% been writing for years about centrist senators, not just Democrats, but the 07:18.633 --> 07:22.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% vanishing breed of moderate Republican centrist Democrats. What does this mean for the Senate? 07:23.866 --> 07:26.033 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Well, they keep vanishing. So, thereús one less. 07:26.033 --> 07:30.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so, you know, one of the things -- Iúve been defending Joe Manchin, because the Biden 07:30.266 --> 07:34.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% administration wanted a $4 trillion spending bill, and Manchin said, no, itús a $1 trillion spending 07:34.300 --> 07:39.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% bill. And if they had spent $4 trillion, inflation would have been through the roof. And so I think 07:41.900 --> 07:44.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% he actually played a vital role for the Democrats, even though most Democrats really dislike the guy. 07:46.800 --> 07:49.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But you are seeing a loss of voice after voice after voice in Kyrsten Sinema and some of the 07:49.500 --> 07:54.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% other remaining moderates have been seem genuinely in mourning that theyúre losing a teammate. 07:55.233 --> 07:57.266 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right. 07:57.266 --> 07:59.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ASMA KHALID: Youúre seeing the same though on the Republican side. I mean, 07:59.333 --> 08:01.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% isnút that just indicative of the way that politics is in this moment in this country, 08:01.433 --> 08:06.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that thereús really very little appetite for allegedly a centrist moderate movement? 08:08.066 --> 08:10.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Well, letús talk about the two other senators, Brown and Tester, 08:10.066 --> 08:15.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% who are running for -- Democrats, who are running for re-election in red states, 08:16.666 --> 08:20.266 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% one very red state and one pretty red state. What are their chances? 08:22.300 --> 08:23.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE: So, you thought it was Sherrod Brown of Ohio and Jon Tester of Montana? 08:23.566 --> 08:25.566 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Tester of Montana. 08:25.566 --> 08:27.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE: Sherrod Brown after this week is probably thinking why couldnút 08:27.566 --> 08:30.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we hold that abortion referendum next year, because that might have helped him. But John 08:30.600 --> 08:34.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Tester wisely sent out a fundraising note just minutes after Manchinús announcement saying, 08:34.300 --> 08:39.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% well, now all the money and the attention is coming to me, you need to help me out. And, 08:39.100 --> 08:42.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% yes, both of them now become mission critical for Democrats. 08:42.700 --> 08:47.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But theyúre also now, youúre going to hear conversation about, well, could we make a 08:47.066 --> 08:52.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% play for Texas? Colin Allred, whoús the leading Democratic contender, has raised a lot of money, 08:54.133 --> 08:56.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is pretty popular in that state. Ted Cruz is on the ballot, or do you go down 08:56.200 --> 08:59.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to Florida and hope that Rick Scott somehow stumbles and maybe you get a pick up there. 08:59.933 --> 09:03.533 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% There are still ways for Democrats to hold, or at least get to 50-50, 09:03.533 --> 09:06.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% and then if they win the White House, have that vote, 09:06.700 --> 09:10.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which will challenge the vice presidentús future ambitions, if thatús where weúre headed. 09:10.600 --> 09:15.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But all is not necessarily lost and you still have the potential to pick up or hold, essentially, 09:18.700 --> 09:23.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you would hold a seat in Arizona. Races in Nevada are always competitive, but Democrats usually eek 09:23.700 --> 09:28.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% it out. So, it will be close. But, certainly, those two moderates are now the ones to watch. 09:30.733 --> 09:34.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right. I want to come to the abortion issue for the Democrats, a huge issue, 09:34.066 --> 09:39.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but stay on the subject of these third-party candidates. I mean, Joe Manchin is a serious 09:40.900 --> 09:45.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% player in American politics. RFK Jr. gets a lot of attention. Jill Stein gets less 09:47.233 --> 09:50.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% attention. Cornell West gets attention in a very limited segment of the Democratic left. 09:53.133 --> 09:56.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But are Democrats right to be worried, mainstream party Democrats, Joe Biden re-elect Democrats? 09:59.100 --> 10:02.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS: Absolutely they should be worried, because it only takes a sliver, 10:02.700 --> 10:07.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that sliver of the left that Cornell West can pull from in a couple of these states. And 10:09.633 --> 10:12.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% thatús a rap for Joe Biden, right? You can -- as you were talking about 2016, 10:12.700 --> 10:16.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters and folks that worked on her campaign, 10:16.666 --> 10:21.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% when Jill Stein announced, they were on Twitter, or X, excuse me, talking about how she would -- 10:22.833 --> 10:24.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: We can call it Twitter here. 10:24.833 --> 10:27.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS: Letús say Space -- talking about how she is the reason that Hillary 10:27.500 --> 10:29.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Clinton lost Michigan, or Wisconsin picked one of those blue wall states, 10:29.500 --> 10:34.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? And I think that is something this White House and this campaign, theyúre not 10:36.033 --> 10:39.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% saying it out loud, but they are worried about it. Theyúre concerned about it. 10:39.366 --> 10:42.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: I think the political world is just radically more unstable than it was even 10:42.500 --> 10:46.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% four years ago. People are just really annoyed. Theyúre furious at the state of the country, 10:46.766 --> 10:50.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% their fears of the direction, and itús right for some sort of disruption that 10:50.033 --> 10:55.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we canút even see. And they want a younger guy like Joe Manchin whoús 76. 10:57.066 --> 10:59.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ASMA KHALID: I agree with the sense that I do think you just need a sliver, 10:59.700 --> 11:03.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and I think it depends on certain votes, right? I mean, Iúve heard a lot from voters and folks just 11:05.933 --> 11:08.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% within the party system about Michigan, right, because of whatús going on with Israel and Gaza, 11:08.000 --> 11:12.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% youúve heard that some of the Arab-American community is upset there. Michigan is a state 11:12.100 --> 11:17.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that Hillary Clinton lost by 10,000 votes. You know, these are slivers or tiny percentages, 11:18.700 --> 11:22.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% but Democrats really canút afford to lose a state like Michigan. 11:22.033 --> 11:24.500 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And you get the sense that they are aware of that. Theyúre trying 11:24.500 --> 11:27.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to reach out to some of the younger, more progressive voters. But, again, 11:27.500 --> 11:30.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% some of those younger, more progressive voters arenút really aligned with Biden 11:30.866 --> 11:34.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% on a host of other issues. Theyúre frustrated about student loan debt, some other issues. 11:34.066 --> 11:36.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: But what are the chances - - letús stay on that for one second. What 11:36.033 --> 11:41.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are the chances that significant number of Arab-American voters in Michigan go to Trump? 11:43.566 --> 11:45.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ASMA KHALID: I donút think a significant number would go to Trump. What I hear is that they would 11:45.700 --> 11:50.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% sit it out. And I had met folks who sat it out in 2016. I, in fact, went to go to a reporting 11:52.266 --> 11:55.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% trip ahead of the 2020 election, specifically met young black voters and young Arab-American 11:58.333 --> 12:01.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% voters who sat it out in 2016. They just didnút like Hillary Clinton. They gave Biden a chance. 12:03.333 --> 12:05.766 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Thatús the danger, is losing some of those folks to sit it out or potentially go third party. 12:05.766 --> 12:10.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Right. Speaking of reporting trips, you recently went to Arizona, 12:10.133 --> 12:13.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% among other places. You were in South Carolina today actually with the vice 12:13.900 --> 12:18.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% president. Thank you for taking a nap or Red Bull or whatever got you here. But you 12:21.100 --> 12:26.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% were there talking a lot about abortion. I want to sort of focus in on that issue. 12:26.033 --> 12:31.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% How regretful are some Republican strategists that the Supreme Court ruled in their favor? 12:33.200 --> 12:35.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ASMA KHALID: I mean, so what I hear from Republicans, 12:35.733 --> 12:39.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% as well as Democrats in the state of Arizona, is they see that if abortion is on the ballot, 12:39.800 --> 12:44.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which it very well could be in the state of Arizona in 2024, that poses a real challenge 12:44.100 --> 12:48.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for Republicans. Because much like what you saw in Ohio, Arizona is currently there gathering 12:48.533 --> 12:53.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% signatures to put this ballot referendum on, to put a constitutional right for abortion in 2024. 12:55.366 --> 12:58.366 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I was out just tag-teaming, watching people do these ballot signatures, 12:58.366 --> 13:01.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% voter after voter, afterwards Iúd interview them. And they would say, you know, Iúm not 13:01.900 --> 13:05.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% really aligned with the Democratic Party. Some of them, Republicans, some of them, 13:05.300 --> 13:10.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% like, I donút like anybody, but they were out there to sign this ballot referendum. 13:12.200 --> 13:14.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And thatús the thinking Democrats have, and that is the fear Republicans have, is that 13:14.766 --> 13:18.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% voters will turn out for this abortion issue. And while theyúre there, hey, just vote for the -- 13:18.666 --> 13:20.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: They might just vote for it. 13:20.700 --> 13:24.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE: And it may happen in Florida as well. So, you could see, if not the Senate race, 13:24.033 --> 13:29.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% House candidates benefit from this in Florida. New York is going to have one of these ballot 13:30.966 --> 13:33.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% issues next year. And you think to yourself, well, blue New York. But the more Democrats 13:33.466 --> 13:38.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% show up in suburban New York City, in the five or six House districts that could flip 13:38.133 --> 13:43.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% from red to blue, and then youúd have Speaker Hakeem Jeffries, this is why Democrats want it. 13:44.666 --> 13:46.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Quick reporting question for you. You were just 13:46.300 --> 13:50.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% in Florida this week at a Trump rally. Did he talk about abortion? 13:52.333 --> 13:55.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE: No, didnút come up nearly as much as it did at the debate ten miles away, 13:55.566 --> 14:00.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and the way it comes up now with Democrats. I mean, he takes credit for putting judges on the 14:02.600 --> 14:07.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% bench who have ruled in favor of more restrictive abortion rights or of ending Roe versus Wade, 14:07.333 --> 14:11.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because he understands in a Republican primary, you have to do that. But, ultimately, if he makes 14:11.666 --> 14:15.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% it to the general, and said one reason why there are a lot of Republicans who believe he wonút win, 14:15.266 --> 14:19.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because Democrats will remind everyone he put the judges on the court that made this happen. 14:19.333 --> 14:23.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Thereús something interesting about -- Trump seems to not 14:23.800 --> 14:28.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% be heard as much by this abortion backlash, or maybe Iúm maybe Iúm over-reading events 14:30.433 --> 14:33.600 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% right now. But could this actually hurt him or is it a down ballot 14:33.600 --> 14:37.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% kind of problem for Republicans next year? EUGENE DANIELS: I think it could hurt every 14:37.000 --> 14:40.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% single Republican, right? I mean, if heús the nominee, that is something thatús going to be 14:40.500 --> 14:45.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% on the minds of voters when they head into the ballot box, right, when they head to go vote. 14:45.233 --> 14:50.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think all of us have been surprised by the saliency of abortion, right? Like, I think, 14:50.233 --> 14:54.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you know, people thought the midterms shore, some of these special elections that happened 14:54.533 --> 14:59.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in 2022 shore, but weúre in November of 2023 and voters are still voting on 15:01.633 --> 15:04.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the side of abortion access because, like those voters that you talk to in Arizona, 15:04.266 --> 15:08.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% when you talk to people, they donút -- Americans do not like things taken away from them, right? 15:08.666 --> 15:12.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They do not like, that is something that we feel very strongly about. Once we have 15:12.300 --> 15:14.900 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% something, we donút want to take it away from us, 15:14.900 --> 15:19.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you know? And so that is what the Republican Party is learning the hard way at this point. 15:19.033 --> 15:22.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And itús not an issue of messaging because thereús a lot of Republicans in Virginia, 15:22.633 --> 15:25.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% for example, Glenn Youngkin, the governor there, was saying, well, 15:25.433 --> 15:29.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% if we just talk about it a little differently and say 15 weeks instead of 6 weeks, 15:29.200 --> 15:32.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% thatús going to be the thing. Itús not an issue of messaging, exactly. Itús 15:32.066 --> 15:37.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% not messaging. It is a policy issue that they have with a lot of the voters in this country. 15:39.066 --> 15:41.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Yes. And the broader lesson of the election is itús not only on abortion, 15:41.700 --> 15:45.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% but all sorts of cultural wars had lost saliency. And so if thereús anything we learned that Glenn 15:47.100 --> 15:49.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Youngkinús not personal defeat, but the Republican Partyús defeat in Virginia, 15:49.166 --> 15:54.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% itús no longer when Glenn Youngkin got elected. And Andy Beshearús victory in Kentucky, 15:56.066 --> 15:59.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the governor got re-elected. And he was running like bread and butter practicalities. 15:59.033 --> 16:03.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And so I think the lesson for Joe Biden is, A, run -- as David Axelrod has been saying, 16:03.500 --> 16:08.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% run a comparison campaign. And I would add run a prosaic campaign. Donút make it about who 16:08.133 --> 16:12.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% do you like less. Make it about Iúm giving your student debt, Iúm giving you prescription drugs, 16:12.933 --> 16:16.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% just concrete products. And I think if Joe Biden makes the campaign against about himself, 16:16.866 --> 16:20.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% thatús probably bad idea. But if he can make it about the products he can deliver, infrastructure 16:20.933 --> 16:24.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% spending, all that kind of stuff, and itús off him and itús here is concrete benefits. 16:24.700 --> 16:26.433 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% ASMA KHALID: And theyúve struggled to get that message out. I mean, 16:26.433 --> 16:31.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I go on trips with them where the $35 insulin fee right now, 16:31.000 --> 16:35.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that gets a rip roaring applause. But it is something that hasnút managed to translate. And 16:35.533 --> 16:39.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I came back and I told my editor Iúm so shocked insulin is like a huge applause line, but it is. 16:39.866 --> 16:44.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE: And the vice president talked about it today in South Carolina in a crowd 16:44.833 --> 16:48.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% full of black voters. I mean, they know. Thatús the base. Youúve got to 16:48.100 --> 16:52.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% remind them of that. And when you remind the one person there, they go remind their kids, 16:52.133 --> 16:56.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% their neighbors, and thatús why you got to go vote. Theyúre very formulaic about it. 16:56.133 --> 16:58.933 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: I want to go to this. You use the word comparison, 16:58.933 --> 17:03.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% a comparison election. Weúve been talking a lot on this show everywhere in Washington about age, 17:06.266 --> 17:09.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% specifically Bidenús age and cognitive abilities. There are a lot of people on 17:09.833 --> 17:14.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% the right who say that heús lost much of his cognitive ability. 17:15.666 --> 17:17.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% I want to play a couple of clips from this week to 17:17.833 --> 17:22.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% show you -- to complicate that narrative a little bit. Iúm going to roll those. 17:25.700 --> 17:30.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JOE BIDEN, U.S. President: You okay? I want the press to know that wasnút me. 17:33.400 --> 17:36.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. President: The press hates when I say theyúre smart. He 17:36.633 --> 17:41.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% said they were smart. Well, what am I supposed to say? Theyúre stupid people? 17:43.533 --> 17:46.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Kim Jong-un leads 1.4 billion people and thereús no doubt about who the boss is. 17:49.400 --> 17:51.400 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Now, you know whatús interesting about 17:51.400 --> 17:55.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that latter clip? I mean, the first one is interesting because Biden seems pretty sharp, 17:57.800 --> 18:01.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% funny, right, maybe not the fastest moving guy in the world, but sharper. 18:01.100 --> 18:06.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% The second part, if Joe Biden came out and said that North Korea has 1.4 billion people, 18:09.533 --> 18:12.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% weúd all be all over that. Oh my god, the president of the United 18:12.066 --> 18:15.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% States doesnút know that heús talking about China, not North Korea, right? 18:15.300 --> 18:19.233 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% With Trump, maybe itús all baked in to peopleús assumptions about 18:19.233 --> 18:21.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% what he knows and what he doesnút know. 18:21.266 --> 18:24.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE: But this is different. He didnút used to do this. And this is the 18:24.133 --> 18:29.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% one change weúve seen in him in the last few years, and even in the last just few months, 18:31.100 --> 18:33.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that heús confusing names and places. He did with Turkey and Hungary a few weeks ago. 18:33.133 --> 18:37.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, yes, theyúll look at us and say, you guys are nitpicking in the details. But when 18:37.733 --> 18:41.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% you take it all collectively, it signals something has changed in their behavior. 18:41.933 --> 18:43.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Well, weúre all supposed to be -- as voters, 18:43.733 --> 18:47.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% weúre all supposed to be judging the abilities in preparation of a -- 18:47.066 --> 18:50.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE: And that was a good event for the president. It was a labor union event. It was 18:50.400 --> 18:54.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a victory for him and for labor unions. He, of course, calls himself the most pro-labor 18:54.733 --> 18:59.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% president in modern times. They havenút all been like that though recently. And the thing 18:59.333 --> 19:04.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% is heús going to need a lot more days, like that event in Illinois, to start turning that around. 19:06.833 --> 19:08.966 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ASMA KHALID: I think some of this is somebody who covers the White House is part of itús about 19:08.966 --> 19:13.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% access, right? I mean, I do think that Trump, weúve all seen him, heús readily been available, 19:15.200 --> 19:17.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% even during his days in the White House. And one of the things that you -- I think we both could 19:17.833 --> 19:20.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% agree and come in the White House, is President Biden has not been readily available to the press. 19:20.833 --> 19:25.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And the more, say, missteps you make, the less they become a news story, 19:27.266 --> 19:29.100 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% because people just get more comfortable seeing -- 19:29.100 --> 19:32.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% ED OúKEEFE: Remember the crazy Uncle Joe? We knew that when he was in the 19:32.200 --> 19:34.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Senate. We knew that when he was in the vice presidency. 19:34.000 --> 19:35.666 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: He would just say anything. 19:35.666 --> 19:37.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% ED OúKEEFE: Because heúd say anything and people said, oh, whatever. 19:37.666 --> 19:39.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: Iúve been interviewing the guy for 30 years, not to play the old guy 19:39.800 --> 19:44.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% card here, but sorry. And I interviewed him several times in the White House, 19:46.533 --> 19:49.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and he is basically with it. Heús like a pitcher who used to throw 80, 85. 19:49.766 --> 19:52.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ASMA KHALID: He can answer questions under the plane, under the wing, no problem. 19:52.166 --> 19:54.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: And so, in some ways, heús a little better than what it used to interview him, 19:54.800 --> 19:59.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% because he used to try to pack every fact in the known universe into every answer. And now heús got 20:01.700 --> 20:05.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% some message to discipline. But people think heús a doddering old grandpa. Itús not true. 20:06.200 --> 20:08.266 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ASMA KHALID: But why not make him more available? 20:08.266 --> 20:11.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ED OúKEEFE: Thatús what it is. And hereús what happens. This is happening again this week. Bad 20:11.333 --> 20:15.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% polls come out. He comes and starts talking to us again for a few days. And we go, oh look, 20:15.466 --> 20:20.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% heús accessible. Bad news happens and he stops talking to us. And thatús exactly what happened. 20:20.133 --> 20:23.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% He spent two times talking to you guys, or to the reporters going to 20:23.400 --> 20:26.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Illinois. Then Joe Manchin drops out and suddenly we donút see him again, 20:26.500 --> 20:29.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% because the bad news happened. Last time it was something with his son. 20:29.100 --> 20:33.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Well, President Biden, youúre invited to this show. Anytime weúll 20:33.466 --> 20:37.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% get this group together. Itús going to -- we could talk for as long as you like. No, 20:37.466 --> 20:41.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% no, no, I mean youúre probably -- youúre probably on to something. I mean, it always 20:41.333 --> 20:46.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% is a bit self-serving when we say, oh, just talk more to us. But thereús something to be said for 20:48.866 --> 20:52.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% like lowering the mystery or removing that shroud of mystery around his health or his cognitive. 20:54.700 --> 20:56.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, weúre also comparing apples and oranges, because Donald Trump 20:56.866 --> 21:01.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% has a whole set of other issues related to his behavior, his relationship to reality, 21:04.033 --> 21:07.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% relationship to the truth. Iúm trying to like say this as diplomatically as 21:07.800 --> 21:12.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% possible and hoping that David brooks comes in and rescues him from his cul-de-sac. 21:12.400 --> 21:13.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: The cavalry is here. 21:13.700 --> 21:14.933 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Thank you. 21:14.933 --> 21:16.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: You know, I think -- 21:16.966 --> 21:18.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Heús not a traditional politician the way Joe Biden is. 21:18.800 --> 21:21.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: The big question for this presidential election for me is, 21:21.400 --> 21:24.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I have a feeling and itús only an instinct, but based on a lot of reality, that itús going to be 21:24.800 --> 21:29.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a foreign policy election. The world is getting a lot more dangerous. The Middle East has blown up, 21:31.766 --> 21:34.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Ukraine has blown up, weúre ripe for something in Asia. And how will the 21:34.200 --> 21:38.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% country react? Who do they think is the safe repair of hands when the worldús on 21:38.433 --> 21:42.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% fire? And itús not really clear to me what the answer to that question is. 21:42.733 --> 21:45.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Wait, itús not clear to you the answer to the question or the answer to -- 21:45.333 --> 21:48.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: About whether they think -- I mean, I think Biden is well positioned for 21:48.133 --> 21:51.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a foreign policy election because thatús what heús been doing his whole life. And he actually 21:51.466 --> 21:56.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% has a cohesive theory about the world fighting authoritarianism and Donald Trump has no theory. 21:58.533 --> 22:02.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And in Ukraine, heús clearly, in my view, on the wrong side, but he doesnút want to get involved. 22:04.400 --> 22:06.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% In the Middle East, you guys are no better than I, but what Iúve heard Trump say about 22:06.133 --> 22:10.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% the Middle East is some random word salad. I see no policy there at all. 22:10.633 --> 22:15.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS: I mean, I think youúre right. I think President Biden is attempting to make it 22:17.600 --> 22:19.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a foreign policy election. I donút know if thatús actually going to work. Voters tend 22:19.700 --> 22:23.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to only care about foreign policy when itús American boots or American lives. 22:23.833 --> 22:25.500 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: I was just going to say, like, 22:25.500 --> 22:27.700 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% weúre not talking about Afghanistan anymore. That was the crisis that 22:27.700 --> 22:31.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% was going to tear down this presidency. And I donút know, I mean, if the war -- 22:31.600 --> 22:33.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ASMA KHALID: Yes. I think also the Democratic Party itself. His 22:33.700 --> 22:37.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% coalition of voters are not unified if weúre talking about the Middle East. So, 22:37.400 --> 22:42.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think it would behoove him or the Democratic Party to not make it a foreign policy. 22:42.033 --> 22:44.666 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Can I -- in the few minutes that we have remaining, 22:44.666 --> 22:48.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a couple minutes we have remaining, can I talk about the fact that Trump is almost 22:48.733 --> 22:53.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% certainly going to be the nominee and that the debates that weúre watching seemingly 22:55.766 --> 22:59.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% every week are a little bit of a tryout, beauty contest for V.P. I just wanted you 23:01.066 --> 23:04.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to watch one fascinating moment from the from the debate just a couple days ago. 23:07.500 --> 23:09.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% VIVEK RAMASWAMY, Republican Presidential Candidate: In the last debate, she made 23:09.566 --> 23:12.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% fun of me for actually joining TikTok while her own daughter was actually using the app 23:12.900 --> 23:16.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% for a long time So, you might want to take care of your family first -- 23:16.066 --> 23:18.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% NIKKI HALEY, Republican Presidential Candidate: Leave my daughter out of your voice. 23:18.500 --> 23:21.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% VIVEK RAMASWAMY: The next generation of Americans are using. 23:21.200 --> 23:23.266 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% NIKKI HALEY: Youúre just scum. 23:23.266 --> 23:27.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: So, youúre just scum. That was a pretty exciting moment. 23:27.200 --> 23:32.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% We only have a couple of minutes left, but I did want to get your quick views 23:34.066 --> 23:38.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% on who he might be thinking about for vice president and why that person. 23:40.766 --> 23:44.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ASMA KHALID: I mean if character and temperament is what heús looking for in someone who is akin 23:44.466 --> 23:48.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% to him, Vivek Ramaswamy seems to be his candidate on stage. 23:48.933 --> 23:51.300 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Very elegantly put. 23:51.300 --> 23:53.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% ED OúKEEFE: His team would tell you theyúre looking at -- theyúre 23:53.633 --> 23:58.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% keeping an eye on Nikki Haley and Tim Scott They bring two different sets of 24:00.666 --> 24:02.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% skills and backgrounds. But, obviously, her with the foreign policy experience, 24:02.800 --> 24:07.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% being a woman, being a governor, thereús a certain set of experiences. Tim Scott, 24:07.700 --> 24:11.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% African-American, a senator, affable, well liked and probably wonút go the distance. 24:11.400 --> 24:13.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS: I think those two choices are interesting. Kristi Noem, governor 24:13.600 --> 24:17.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of South Dakota, thereús a relationship. Theyúve had a rift a little bit at times. 24:17.733 --> 24:19.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Everybody has a rift. 24:19.700 --> 24:20.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% EUGENE DANIELS: Also this one, I think, is scary for a lot of people, 24:20.900 --> 24:24.200 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% Kari Lake out of Arizona is also one that -- 24:24.200 --> 24:26.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% DAVID BROOKS: I donút agree with that. I mean, Kanye West is the obvious choice, 24:26.833 --> 24:30.633 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Sarah Huckabee Sanders, maybe Elise Stefanik. I donút know. But I would 24:30.633 --> 24:33.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% go to Kari Lake. I thought sheúd be my favorite. 24:33.133 --> 24:38.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: Yes, again, How to Know a Person, take it from David Brooks, 24:40.166 --> 24:43.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% everybody should read this book. Iúm going to gift this book to some lucky panelist. 24:43.666 --> 24:45.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% DAVID BROOKS: You will laugh. You will cry. 24:45.700 --> 24:48.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% JEFFREY GOLDBERG: You will laugh. You will cry. I want everybody to read 24:48.800 --> 24:52.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% wonderful book. David itús great to have you. Everybody, itús great to have you. 24:52.800 --> 24:55.500 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Unfortunately, we have to leave it there for now but I want to 24:55.500 --> 24:58.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% thank our panelists for joining us and for sharing your reporting. 24:58.800 --> 25:02.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Tune in tomorrow to PBS News Weekend for a look at a unique new program that 25:02.600 --> 25:06.066 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% helps military veterans with PTSD and depression. 25:06.066 --> 25:09.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% And before we go, we want to take a moment to remember my friend, 25:09.300 --> 25:13.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Gwen Ifill, ground breaking journalist and longtime moderator of this program, 25:13.500 --> 25:18.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% who passed away seven years ago this week. We miss her voice and we miss her moral clarity. 25:20.066 --> 25:23.133 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Iúm Jeffrey Goldberg. Good night from Washington.