1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,390 ROBERT COSTA: President Trump confronts new memos from former FBI Director James Comey 2 00:00:05,390 --> 00:00:10,350 and brings a trusted ally onto his legal team. I'm Robert Costa. 3 00:00:10,350 --> 00:00:15,590 Inside the latest on the Russia probe, plus the looming challenges and opportunities in 4 00:00:15,590 --> 00:00:18,670 North Korea, tonight on Washington Week. 5 00:00:18,670 --> 00:00:22,280 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) There was no collusion. 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,820 And that's been so found, as you know, by the House Intelligence Committee. 7 00:00:25,820 --> 00:00:29,840 ROBERT COSTA: President Trump expresses confidence that Special Counsel Robert Mueller's 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:36,160 investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election will not find collusion by the 9 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:42,150 Trump campaign. In a news conference with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, Trump contests 10 00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:47,780 reports that Mueller and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's jobs are in jeopardy. 11 00:00:47,780 --> 00:00:51,270 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) They've been saying I'm going to get rid of them 12 00:00:51,270 --> 00:00:55,790 for the last three months, four months, five months, and they're still here. 13 00:00:55,790 --> 00:01:00,250 ROBERT COSTA: The Justice Department releases redacted memos from fired FBI Director 14 00:01:00,250 --> 00:01:06,020 James Comey, while former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and two other attorneys join 15 00:01:06,020 --> 00:01:08,850 President Trump's personal legal team. 16 00:01:08,850 --> 00:01:12,250 U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N. NIKKI HALEY: (From video.) You will see that Russian 17 00:01:12,250 --> 00:01:16,230 sanctions will be coming down. Secretary Mnuchin will be announcing those on Monday. 18 00:01:16,230 --> 00:01:19,960 ROBERT COSTA: U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley said sanctions would 19 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:23,910 be coming, but the White House walked back that assertion. 20 00:01:23,910 --> 00:01:26,720 NATIONAL ECONOMIC ADVISER LAWRENCE KUDLOW: (From video.) She got ahead of the curve. 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,040 There might have been some momentary confusion about that. 22 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,270 ROBERT COSTA: And the country says goodbye to former First Lady Barbara Bush. 23 00:01:34,270 --> 00:01:40,290 We discuss it all with Nancy Cordes of CBS News, Josh Dawsey of The Washington Post, 24 00:01:40,290 --> 00:01:46,510 Mara Liasson of NPR, and Vivian Salama of NBC News. 25 00:01:46,510 --> 00:01:53,770 ANNOUNCER: This is Washington Week. Once again, from Washington, moderator Robert Costa. 26 00:01:53,770 --> 00:01:58,030 ROBERT COSTA: Good evening. What a rush of news. 27 00:01:58,030 --> 00:02:03,430 Just in the past 24 hours the Justice Department released memos written by former FBI 28 00:02:03,430 --> 00:02:08,370 Director James Comey; former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani joined President Trump's 29 00:02:08,370 --> 00:02:14,340 legal team; and the Democratic National Committee filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit 30 00:02:14,340 --> 00:02:19,500 against the Russian government, WikiLeaks, and the Trump campaign, alleging a conspiracy 31 00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:22,660 to support Trump's 2016 bid. 32 00:02:22,660 --> 00:02:27,500 And earlier this week, lawyers for the president and his personal attorney Michael Cohen 33 00:02:27,500 --> 00:02:33,570 argued against releasing materials that were seized this month in a raid by the FBI. 34 00:02:33,570 --> 00:02:38,740 Trump allies on Capitol Hill, like Congressman Mark Meadows of North Carolina, have been 35 00:02:38,740 --> 00:02:44,080 threatening impeachment or contempt of Congress for Deputy Attorney General Rod 36 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:50,140 Rosenstein unless he handed over those Comey memos. But let's begin with breaking news. 37 00:02:50,140 --> 00:02:56,140 Josh, welcome to Washington Week. Big story tonight that Attorney General Jeff Sessions 38 00:02:56,140 --> 00:03:01,730 has warned the White House that he would step down if Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the 39 00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:05,800 Mueller probe, the special counsel investigation, is fired. And it really brings up 40 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,150 this whole bigger theme. It's not just about the Comey memos this week. 41 00:03:09,150 --> 00:03:12,860 It's really about the tensions between the White House and the Mueller investigation, 42 00:03:12,860 --> 00:03:15,320 Republicans and the Mueller investigation. 43 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,490 JOSH DAWSEY: Right. And that's a fundamental distillation of it, Bob, is that there's 44 00:03:18,490 --> 00:03:22,430 tumult in the ranks of DOJ. And there has been for more than a year, really. 45 00:03:22,430 --> 00:03:27,090 President Trump has been at war, to some degree, with the top leaders of the FBI, of DOJ, 46 00:03:27,090 --> 00:03:29,600 who have not bent to his will. 47 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,860 And he has mused at times about firing Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, Jeff 48 00:03:33,860 --> 00:03:39,440 Sessions, who frustrates him to no end as we have reportedly seen over and over and over. 49 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,640 And what happened this time is that the president again last week, frustrated with the 50 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:50,240 raid on his personal lawyer's apartment, his office, his hotel room, says, you know, I 51 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,150 might want to fire Rod Rosenstein, something he said for months. And Jeff Sessions, the 52 00:03:54,150 --> 00:03:59,190 attorney general, stepped in and said: Hey, if you do this, I may go too. And that would 53 00:03:59,190 --> 00:04:03,850 create a whole domino effect that would be kind of unparalleled, I think, in our government. 54 00:04:03,850 --> 00:04:06,850 ROBERT COSTA: How close are we, Mara, to that domino effect happening? 55 00:04:06,850 --> 00:04:10,710 The president watching the coverage of the Comey memos, watching the coverage Michael 56 00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:16,100 Cohen and the FBI raid, is the U.S., the Trump administration, on the brink of having 57 00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:18,600 some kind of crisis moment? 58 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,080 MARA LIASSON: In a constitutional crisis? I think that we're in the midst of a stress 59 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,970 test on democratic institutions, maybe not a full-fledged constitutional crisis. 60 00:04:25,970 --> 00:04:29,960 But what's amazing about this is usually you've got the legislative branch versus the 61 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,430 executive branch. This time, it's Donald Trump at war with people he appointed, his 62 00:04:34,430 --> 00:04:38,530 own executive branch. Everyone Josh just listed was appointed by Donald Trump. 63 00:04:38,530 --> 00:04:43,670 And he's got his allies in Congress to put pressure on his own branch of government. 64 00:04:43,670 --> 00:04:45,940 That's unheard of. 65 00:04:45,940 --> 00:04:48,930 ROBERT COSTA: Nancy, you've been on Capitol Hill all week. And this is really not - the 66 00:04:48,930 --> 00:04:53,220 Comey memos aren't part of the Comey book tour. It's about Congress fighting DOJ over 67 00:04:53,220 --> 00:04:57,670 document production. Where does that whole drama stand at this moment? 68 00:04:57,670 --> 00:05:01,080 NANCY CORDES: Well, the problem, if you're a Trump ally, is that at this point you've 69 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,830 learned over and over again you really can't do anything to shrink this investigation or 70 00:05:04,830 --> 00:05:09,290 stop the investigation. The only thing you can try to do is discredit the investigation. 71 00:05:09,290 --> 00:05:14,240 And so you demand document after document from DOJ, hoping that there's something in 72 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:19,490 those documents that indicates some kind of a political motivation to starting this 73 00:05:19,490 --> 00:05:23,910 probe, or at least something in there that you can spin that way. That's what they 74 00:05:23,910 --> 00:05:27,840 were hoping for from these Comey memos. They didn't get it. And that's why they're 75 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:32,420 still pushing for other documents from the start of the special counsel probe. 76 00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:35,550 ROBERT COSTA: What's your read, though, Nancy, on Congress? Who's more influential at 77 00:05:35,550 --> 00:05:39,300 this moment, the Capitol Hill leaders like Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who doesn't 78 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:42,860 want to move on legislation to protect the Mueller probe, or is it people like 79 00:05:42,860 --> 00:05:46,400 Meadows, the Freedom Caucus, who are pushing the president to act against DOJ? 80 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,430 NANCY CORDES: I think it's less about power and more about everyone having their roles 81 00:05:50,430 --> 00:05:56,390 to play. You've got the leadership very consistently saying, you know, we're not 82 00:05:56,390 --> 00:06:00,780 going to get involved. We want to let the investigation play out. President Trump 83 00:06:00,780 --> 00:06:05,120 should do the same. That's what they see as the line that they should consistently take. 84 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:10,010 But then you've got some of these rabble rousers, the Mark Meadowses and the Jim Jordans 85 00:06:10,010 --> 00:06:13,930 who - and the Devin Nuneses - who are saying, you know, no. We're out there. 86 00:06:13,930 --> 00:06:17,820 We need to fight. We think that this entire investigation has metastasized. 87 00:06:17,820 --> 00:06:21,770 It's going in directions we don't like. It's getting too close to the president. 88 00:06:21,770 --> 00:06:24,250 And we're going to fight. And that's their role. 89 00:06:24,250 --> 00:06:27,740 That's something that, you know, really wouldn't work if leadership tried to do it. 90 00:06:27,740 --> 00:06:30,970 ROBERT COSTA: And Vivian, you're back from Mar-a-Largo down in Florida, covering 91 00:06:30,970 --> 00:06:35,450 President Trump all week. You spotted Rudy Giuliani there just before he joined 92 00:06:35,450 --> 00:06:39,550 the president's legal team. What does his addition mean at this time? 93 00:06:39,550 --> 00:06:43,290 VIVIAN SALAMA: Well, obviously he's a very competent attorney. He is a very highly 94 00:06:43,290 --> 00:06:47,450 respected attorney back in New York. He also has a long-time relationship with people 95 00:06:47,450 --> 00:06:52,420 like Bob Mueller. He knew Comey back from his days from being major of New York, and 96 00:06:52,420 --> 00:06:57,420 they were over in DOJ and the FBI. And so he believes that he's coming in, sort of 97 00:06:57,420 --> 00:07:01,720 bringing in the rapport of an attorney, but also someone who can sit with these men, 98 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,830 look them face to face, and say, you know, this is the way it's going to be. 99 00:07:04,830 --> 00:07:08,760 Let's wrap this up right now. And he really believes - and he's been out there in the 100 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,610 last two days since this news emerged really saying, you know, I'm going to wrap this up. 101 00:07:13,610 --> 00:07:17,600 I'm going to get this in control - under control, and we're going to just finish it. 102 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,230 JOSH DAWSEY: The fundamental question for Rudy Giuliani, though, will be what is his 103 00:07:21,230 --> 00:07:25,260 approach? The legal team has been besieged by infighting, lots of different 104 00:07:25,260 --> 00:07:29,980 strategies, how much do we cooperate. John Dowd, the president's lawyer, departed 105 00:07:29,980 --> 00:07:35,790 amid some squabbles internally. So what does he do differently? Ty Cobb for months 106 00:07:35,790 --> 00:07:40,710 told the president, listen, this'll be over by Thanksgiving, then by Christmas, by 107 00:07:40,710 --> 00:07:44,790 New Year's. Now it's April and we have Rudy Giuliani coming in and saying, oh, 108 00:07:44,790 --> 00:07:48,360 we're going to wrap this up soon. What are the president's expectations? 109 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,350 Can he do anything differently with Bob Mueller than any of the other lawyers have done? 110 00:07:52,350 --> 00:07:55,820 ROBERT COSTA: Well, one of the key questions, Mara, is will the president actually sit 111 00:07:55,820 --> 00:07:58,900 for an interview with Mueller and his investigators? 112 00:07:58,900 --> 00:08:02,060 I spoke with Giuliani this week. He wouldn't give me a clear answer. 113 00:08:02,060 --> 00:08:04,760 MARA LIASSON: Well, that's because this is a really huge question. 114 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,660 There are tons of people saying: Don't do it, Mr. President. It's just a trap. 115 00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:14,630 If you look at histories of how the president behaves when he's deposed, he can perjure 116 00:08:14,630 --> 00:08:19,100 himself pretty easily. So he's got all sorts of people saying: Don't do it. 117 00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:22,750 On the other hand, maybe he thinks Rudy Giuliani can somehow negotiate terms for an 118 00:08:22,750 --> 00:08:27,710 interview that will protect him. But I think the other big question is which is 119 00:08:27,710 --> 00:08:32,660 better, to try to shut down the Mueller probe by firing Rod Rosenstein or something 120 00:08:32,660 --> 00:08:38,690 else, or just keep on discrediting Mueller, undermining his credibility, so in the end 121 00:08:38,690 --> 00:08:43,700 no matter what he comes up with, you can tell your base: Just dismiss it as fake news? 122 00:08:43,700 --> 00:08:47,740 NANCY CORDES: I think that's absolutely 100 percent the strategy. 123 00:08:47,740 --> 00:08:52,660 The problem is that historically Republicans have had a lot of really great things to say 124 00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:56,330 about Robert Mueller, who himself is a Republican. 125 00:08:56,330 --> 00:09:01,320 And that's why these arguments - you know, they may work with the base, but, you know, as 126 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,920 the investigation moves closer and closer to the president himself, has now ensnared his 127 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,660 personal lawyer, it becomes more and more difficult for Republicans to make that argument. 128 00:09:11,660 --> 00:09:15,480 JOSH DAWSEY: And the personal lawyer is really an important development. I mean, 129 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,270 it's now a two-pronged investigation. You have the Southern District of New York who's 130 00:09:19,270 --> 00:09:23,340 probing his personal lawyer's finances, listening to his recordings his made 131 00:09:23,340 --> 00:09:27,320 phone calls. I mean, they're really seeing Donald Trump's entire life, and a lot 132 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,920 of it before he became president. And what we reported is that the president was 133 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,460 inclined to do an interview before this raid of his house, even with his lawyers 134 00:09:35,460 --> 00:09:39,700 saying to him: Mr. President, don't do it - exactly as you said, Mara. The president 135 00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:44,540 wanted to do it. Then they came in, they sieged Michael Cohen, they raid all of his 136 00:09:44,540 --> 00:09:47,400 properties early in the morning. The president's furious about it. 137 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,090 And now he is less likely to do it. And that's a big - that's a big difference there. 138 00:09:51,090 --> 00:09:54,580 ROBERT COSTA: And it's not just the president being furious. The president's attorneys, 139 00:09:54,580 --> 00:09:57,990 and Michael Cohen's attorneys, are challenging in court whether federal investigators 140 00:09:57,990 --> 00:10:02,510 will be able to have access to those materials that they seized, including some audio recordings. 141 00:10:02,510 --> 00:10:05,830 VIVIAN SALAMA: Sure, absolutely. And all of this, mind you, is very unsettling 142 00:10:05,830 --> 00:10:09,020 for the president, and I think a big reason why he brings someone like Rudy Giuliani, 143 00:10:09,020 --> 00:10:12,470 who he goes way back with, they have a personal relationship, it's a comfort level 144 00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:16,490 for him. I mean, all of this is sort of playing out. And, remember, this is a 145 00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:20,670 president who very much relied in his life - in his previous life on nondisclosure agreements. 146 00:10:20,670 --> 00:10:24,300 And suddenly, so many elements of his life is coming - are coming out to the public. 147 00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:27,730 And it's been very unsettling for him. Certainly the last couple of days with 148 00:10:27,730 --> 00:10:30,840 Jim Comey out there talking on the different shows, his book coming out. 149 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,990 That's been something that's been really unsettling for him. 150 00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:38,020 But it was really last week and the raid of Cohen's office and home where all of a 151 00:10:38,020 --> 00:10:43,130 sudden, you know, he's gone on this whole rant about the attorney-client privilege being 152 00:10:43,130 --> 00:10:47,390 violated because ultimately that means that he is exposed, he is vulnerable. 153 00:10:47,390 --> 00:10:51,070 MARA LIASSON: And you have this incredible conversation among all these Trump 154 00:10:51,070 --> 00:10:54,980 associates, speculating on whether or not Michael Cohen will flip. 155 00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:58,440 ROBERT COSTA: Will he flip? A lot of reporting out there that - 156 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,220 MARA LIASSON: Will he flip? Won't he flip? Lot of reporting out there, which 157 00:11:01,220 --> 00:11:04,050 means that the assumption is that he has something to tell prosecutors. 158 00:11:04,050 --> 00:11:06,890 ROBERT COSTA: There's a fascinating story in The New York Times tonight that Michael 159 00:11:06,890 --> 00:11:10,940 Cohen has had a tough relationship with President Trump. He said he would take a bullet - he's 160 00:11:10,940 --> 00:11:15,560 said that publicly - but he's also been up and down with the president over his - the last 10 years. 161 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:18,210 MARA LIASSON: As many people have. There are many people who profess their 162 00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:21,030 loyalty to Trump who are then treated really badly. 163 00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:24,010 ROBERT COSTA: Well, there was an interesting legal and political development today. 164 00:11:24,010 --> 00:11:27,390 The DNC, the Democratic National Committee, Nancy, decides to sue the Trump campaign, sue 165 00:11:27,390 --> 00:11:31,270 WikiLeaks, about a conspiracy regarding the 2016 election. 166 00:11:31,270 --> 00:11:34,840 For so long you've been chronicling the Democrats running ahead of the midterms. 167 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,710 They haven't really been talking about the Russia probe. 168 00:11:37,710 --> 00:11:40,870 Are they now really starting to take on that issue and put it front and center? 169 00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:45,150 NANCY CORDES: Well, the DNC is, because the DNC first of all believes that it lost a lot 170 00:11:45,150 --> 00:11:50,410 of money, a lot of credibility as a result of its emails being hacked by the Russians and 171 00:11:50,410 --> 00:11:55,060 shared. I mean, just think back to that time and how embarrassing it was to have all 172 00:11:55,060 --> 00:11:59,800 of their emails about Bernie Sanders, about Hillary Clinton made public right before the 173 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,590 convention. It made for a very rocky first couple of days of the convention, a lot of 174 00:12:04,590 --> 00:12:08,920 bad feelings that lingered among Bernie Sanders supporters in particular. They 175 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,730 lost a lot of donations. In a lot of ways, they're still trying to come back from 176 00:12:12,730 --> 00:12:19,090 that. And so this was the head of the DNC saying, you know what, this cost us. We 177 00:12:19,090 --> 00:12:25,340 really had serious damage to our reputation, to our operation, so we're seeking damages. 178 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:30,710 But also the DNC believes that Russia really hasn't paid a price for what it did to 179 00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:35,260 meddle in the election, and it believes, you know, yes, the special counsel is 180 00:12:35,260 --> 00:12:40,420 investigating, but when you look at the - you know, a civil case, we think that there's 181 00:12:40,420 --> 00:12:45,320 enough there to make the case that the Trump campaign at the very least, if it wasn't 182 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,420 colluding with the Russians, it was egging them on, it was benefitting, it was 183 00:12:50,420 --> 00:12:54,980 encouraging this operation. There's a lot of communication that we know of by 184 00:12:54,980 --> 00:12:57,800 now, and that's what they're going to try to prove in civil court. 185 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,140 JOSH DAWSEY: But I think there's rightly some reticence from Democrats to talk about 186 00:13:01,140 --> 00:13:05,150 this too much because it's a complicated storyline. It has, you know, figures in 187 00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:09,240 foreign countries, money transfers. What does the average person even define as 188 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,090 collusion? Who is Bob Mueller? I mean, to an average American I'm not sure how much 189 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:18,290 some of the intricacies in the day-to-day retinue of a story really resonates. 190 00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:20,470 MARA LIASSON: They don't resonate, yeah. 191 00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:24,900 JOSH DAWSEY: What does resonate, I think, you know, for the president's benefit here, is 192 00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:28,090 that the economy's doing well. Unemployment's low. He's made some inroads on foreign 193 00:13:28,090 --> 00:13:31,550 policy, particularly with North Korea it seems. A lot of what they see and feel and 194 00:13:31,550 --> 00:13:34,870 what tops the news is not this. And you can make these arguments. 195 00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:38,810 We've done this reporting, other people have. There's a lot to see here. But how 196 00:13:38,810 --> 00:13:43,470 much of it - how much of it delves down and is a voting issue for people? I'm not sure. 197 00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:47,000 MARA LIASSON: I don't think it is. And I think if you look at successful Democrats 198 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,290 who've run in these special elections or off-years, they're not talking about Russia. 199 00:13:50,290 --> 00:13:53,830 They know that when you look at the list of issues that voters care about, Russia is way 200 00:13:53,830 --> 00:13:55,830 down at the bottom. 201 00:13:55,830 --> 00:13:59,080 NANCY CORDES: And that's a reason that some Democrats did not like this idea of this 202 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,270 lawsuit. They said, hey, wait a minute, we should really be focused on the special 203 00:14:02,270 --> 00:14:06,980 counsel investigation, and this lawsuit only politicizes it. It only creates more 204 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:10,840 political overtones. That's the last thing that Democrats need right now. 205 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,020 ROBERT COSTA: We're going to have to turn to breaking news. There's so much 206 00:14:14,020 --> 00:14:17,480 breaking news. I mean, breaking news every hour, it seems, these days. 207 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,520 But there was breaking news tonight not only with Josh's story and Rosenstein and the 208 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,340 Trump administration, but out of North Korea. 209 00:14:24,340 --> 00:14:30,270 State media there announced plans to suspend nuclear missile tests and close a test site. 210 00:14:30,270 --> 00:14:35,480 This happened just days after President Trump confirmed that CIA Director and Secretary 211 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:41,200 of State nominee Mike Pompeo recently huddled with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un for a 212 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,080 secret meeting ahead of the planned talks between the president and Kim. 213 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,870 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) I think Mike Pompeo will go down as one of the 214 00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:56,870 great secretary of states. And by the way, he just left North Korea, had a great 215 00:14:56,870 --> 00:15:02,800 meeting with Kim Jong-un, and got along with him really well, really great. 216 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:08,020 ROBERT COSTA: Vivian, when you - when you think about Pompeo right now, he's going to 217 00:15:08,020 --> 00:15:13,400 meet with Kim, but what does he - what does he accomplish in that conversation, that 218 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,200 exchange, that maybe led to Kim taking these steps tonight? 219 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,570 Was it because of the Pompeo meeting, based on our knowledge and our reporting, or it is 220 00:15:21,570 --> 00:15:25,460 because of different actions China has taken or others in the region have taken? 221 00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:28,540 VIVIAN SALAMA: Well, there's definitely a number of factors playing out. 222 00:15:28,540 --> 00:15:32,310 The South Koreans have been working the process with the North Koreans now over the last 223 00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:35,880 couple of months, and they were the ones to really push this process forward at a time 224 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,200 where things were very precarious with the United States after the death of Otto 225 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,840 Warmbier, the American who was brought out of North Korea in a coma, President Trump 226 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,500 firing all kinds of accusations at Kim Jong-un, calling him "little rocket man" and 227 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:53,940 saying that he would respond to their testing with "fire and fury." And so for the United 228 00:15:53,940 --> 00:15:58,050 States, things have been sort of going forward in baby steps. There's cautious optimism. 229 00:15:58,050 --> 00:16:01,690 I spoke to a couple of folks since this story broke. There's a lot of cautious optimism. 230 00:16:01,690 --> 00:16:05,870 Everybody sees this as going in the right direction ahead of the planned summit with 231 00:16:05,870 --> 00:16:11,020 President Trump and Kim Jong-un in a month or so. However, North Korea has promised 232 00:16:11,020 --> 00:16:14,400 these things before and have reneged on their promises, and so a lot of people are 233 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,790 saying, well, Pompeo's going the right direction, but everyone just play it cool. 234 00:16:17,790 --> 00:16:20,790 MARA LIASSON: And what are they promising? They're promising to suspend their tests 235 00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:25,530 for how long? Until they can meet with President Trump. North Korea just got something 236 00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:30,450 it really wanted, a side-by-side meeting with the most powerful person on the planet 237 00:16:30,450 --> 00:16:35,140 as two equals. So that's something they got. This at least is something that President 238 00:16:35,140 --> 00:16:40,230 Trump can say he got in advance. They're going to suspend for now their tests. They 239 00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:43,610 don't really need to do more tests. They just know that they have a long-range missile. 240 00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:46,080 They accomplished their goal. Now they're ready to sit down. 241 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,850 ROBERT COSTA: What is the strategy here, Josh, inside of the White House? 242 00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:51,500 JOSH DAWSEY: Well, the president made a telling joke at the Gridiron Dinner in 243 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:55,080 Washington a few weeks ago where he said dealing with a crazy problem - a crazy man, 244 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,880 that's his problem, not mine. (Laughter.) And inside the White House, what you 245 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,730 sense is this is an unorthodox president on foreign policy where he says of course 246 00:17:02,730 --> 00:17:05,580 I'll meet with North Korea, President Kim Jong-un. 247 00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:07,680 MARA LIASSON: Yeah, yeah, with no preconditions. 248 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,700 JOSH DAWSEY: No preconditions, we'll do it anyway, we'll talk to him. There was a 249 00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:13,470 lot of guffawing at that, a lot of people saying this could go really poorly, and 250 00:17:13,470 --> 00:17:17,630 it still might. But so far you've seen North Korea say tonight they are going to 251 00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:19,770 get rid of their missiles. You've seen some - 252 00:17:19,770 --> 00:17:21,930 MARA LIASSON: Well, suspend testing. 253 00:17:21,930 --> 00:17:25,110 JOSH DAWSEY: Well, suspend for now, but that is a concession and a win for the 254 00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:28,830 president. And you see a lot of optimism inside the administration that we've got 255 00:17:28,830 --> 00:17:32,600 these people at the table, we could do something. I mean, one of the things - we had 256 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,800 a fundraiser a while back, and we got the audio of it, and what President Trump said 257 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,560 behind closed doors: These people for 25 years - Bush, Obama - all of them have 258 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,760 pushed these policies; nothing's ever gotten done. I'm not going to be like these people. 259 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,090 MARA LIASSON: Except for Clinton did make a deal with the North Koreans, and it was a 260 00:17:47,090 --> 00:17:50,240 huge thing at the time, and it didn't end up - 261 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,260 JOSH DAWSEY: And then it dissipated. 262 00:17:52,260 --> 00:17:54,200 ROBERT COSTA: So there's optimism inside of the administration. 263 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,900 Does it translate to a confirmation for Pompeo on Capitol Hill? 264 00:17:56,900 --> 00:18:01,540 NANCY CORDES: Possibly, but he got some very bad news just Friday, which is that he is 265 00:18:01,540 --> 00:18:05,340 not going to get a favorable recommendation out of the Senate Foreign Relations 266 00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:07,900 Committee, and that is unheard of. 267 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:10,060 MARA LIASSON: First time in 70 years. 268 00:18:10,060 --> 00:18:13,020 NANCY CORDES: Exactly, because all of the Democrats and one Republican, Rand Paul, have 269 00:18:13,020 --> 00:18:16,950 now all said that they are going to vote against him in committee. 270 00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:21,970 The Republican leadership has some cards it can play, some procedural moves to get his 271 00:18:21,970 --> 00:18:25,770 vote to the floor, but it's not a good look, especially when you're talking about the 272 00:18:25,770 --> 00:18:30,400 secretary of state. There's this longstanding tradition on Capitol Hill that 273 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:35,290 senators set their political views aside and they rally around the secretary of 274 00:18:35,290 --> 00:18:39,800 state nominee because they want to show a unified front to the world in support 275 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,120 of the - of the nation's biggest diplomat, and that's not happening in this case. 276 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:47,520 ROBERT COSTA: So all these issues with North Korea, Pompeo, it brings up bigger 277 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,180 questions about U.S. foreign policy. As Josh was saying, is this president and 278 00:18:52,180 --> 00:18:55,710 this administration going on instinct? Is there a doctrine at play here? Well, this 279 00:18:55,710 --> 00:18:59,400 week there was another issue. U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley 280 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,690 said Sunday that the U.S. would issue sanctions against Russia for their involvement 281 00:19:03,690 --> 00:19:08,610 in the chemical attacks in Syria, but then White House Economic Adviser Larry Kudlow 282 00:19:08,610 --> 00:19:12,750 struck a different note, saying perhaps Haley had been confused. 283 00:19:12,750 --> 00:19:17,680 Ambassador Haley fired back with a statement, telling Fox News that: "With all due 284 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,700 respect, I don't get confused." President Trump later weighed in from Florida. 285 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:26,380 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) We'll do sanctions as soon as they very much 286 00:19:26,380 --> 00:19:30,350 deserve it. We will have - that is a question. 287 00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:35,390 There has been nobody tougher on Russia than President Donald Trump. 288 00:19:35,390 --> 00:19:39,700 ROBERT COSTA: Yet, on Capitol Hill lawmakers are unsure about the administration's 289 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:44,260 position both on Syria and Russia. Where does - where is this administration right 290 00:19:44,260 --> 00:19:48,600 now? You have Pompeo about to have his confirmation process finalized. 291 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:53,560 You have National Security Adviser John Bolton playing a major role inside of the West 292 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,700 Wing. How does this affect the president as he makes these decisions on 293 00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,680 North Korea, on Syria, on Russia sanctions? 294 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,020 VIVIAN SALAMA: I think the fact that he's such a foreign policy novice has led him to be 295 00:20:04,020 --> 00:20:07,760 such a risk-taker. He's thinking outside the box, and that is something that has appeal to 296 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,100 a lot of people who say, you know what, the old way didn't work so let's see where he goes 297 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:15,610 from here. However, patience will wane at some point when we don't see results - if the North 298 00:20:15,610 --> 00:20:20,580 Koreans don't really follow through and abandon their nuclear program, if the Syrian war 299 00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:25,180 doesn't come to some sort of resolution and Assad continues to use chemical weapons. 300 00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:28,870 And this is why there was a lot of pushback recently when President Trump tweeted mission 301 00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:35,110 accomplished after striking Syria, because they felt it was a bit too hasty and that he's 302 00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:37,340 just jumping on a win. 303 00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:40,850 NANCY CORDES: You know, Larry Kudlow, veteran broadcaster, rookie Trump advisor. 304 00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:44,470 And if you've been in the White House for a while, you've learned how to spin the 305 00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:48,660 president's changes of heart because you can't say, obviously, well, the president 306 00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:52,530 changed his mind; he thought one thing one day and a different thing the next. And so he 307 00:20:52,530 --> 00:20:57,650 pinned it on Nikki Haley, also a big mistake, one that he himself came out and said, OK, my bad. 308 00:20:57,650 --> 00:21:00,320 ROBERT COSTA: Is Haley's - is Haley's job at risk? 309 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,790 MARA LIASSON: I don't think Haley's job is at risk. Are you kidding? No. 310 00:21:03,790 --> 00:21:06,850 I think what's so interesting to me about that whole episode - first of all, Larry 311 00:21:06,850 --> 00:21:11,420 Kudlow, affable guy, real gentleman, apologized, said she was put in a box; the policy 312 00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:14,990 changed and nobody told her. That was an absolutely truthful statement. 313 00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:18,500 ROBERT COSTA: Why did the policy change? Was it because Bolton's come in, he gutted the NSC? 314 00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:21,520 MARA LIASSON: No, because - no, because President Trump decided, as he just said, he 315 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,130 didn't want any more sanctions on Russia. He said we'll put sanctions on them 316 00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:28,970 when they very much deserve it, meaning they don't deserve it now. 317 00:21:28,970 --> 00:21:34,620 He has been reluctant all along to punish Vladimir Putin, and he always steps back to 318 00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:38,280 that position even when his administration occasionally will get him to agree to expel 319 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,880 some diplomats or sanction some oligarchs. 320 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,720 JOSH DAWSEY: But that's the entire fundamental understanding of his presidency, right, 321 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,680 is that he will change his mind at any moment. One day he says we're pulling out of 322 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,140 TPP, then he says we're back in it. One day he wants to do X on Russia, one day he 323 00:21:53,140 --> 00:21:57,090 wants to do Y. He's embraced various health care proposals at different times. 324 00:21:57,090 --> 00:22:01,250 He can be swayed really easily by whoever the last person is with him. 325 00:22:01,250 --> 00:22:05,020 So someone comes to him and says we should no longer do these sanctions, you know, Russia 326 00:22:05,020 --> 00:22:09,120 did not respond that aggressively to these Syria attacks, maybe, and the president goes, 327 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:13,390 oh, that's interesting, OK, we won't do it. And he, for better and worse - and I 328 00:22:13,390 --> 00:22:17,250 think it cuts in both directions for him - really can change his position on a dime. 329 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:20,190 ROBERT COSTA: We've got to leave it there. You're so right. 330 00:22:20,190 --> 00:22:23,510 Whenever you talk to sources, they say if you're in this administration you have to talk 331 00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:26,720 to President Trump, not just talk to staff if you want a clear answer. 332 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,400 Also this week, former First Lady Barbara Bush passed away, the 92-year-old matriarch of 333 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,380 a political dynasty. She was the wife and mother of presidents and of a governor. 334 00:22:36,380 --> 00:22:40,740 Amy Holmes and Michael Gerson of In Principle, the new PBS show, interviewed former 335 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:44,510 President George W. Bush the day after his mother died. Here's a clip. 336 00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:48,300 FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: (From video.) She and I used to kind of needle 337 00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:52,690 each other in a friendly way. And we were - I was kind of teasing her and she was 338 00:22:52,690 --> 00:22:58,910 teasing me, and then the doctor walked into this hospital room. And mother said, "Do 339 00:22:58,910 --> 00:23:04,090 you want to know why George W. is the way he is, Doctor?" And the doctor kind of didn't 340 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:08,300 have any choice. And mother said, "Because I drank and smoked when I was pregnant 341 00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:14,030 with him." (Laughter.) And so - (laughs) - I knew she was feeling pretty good. 342 00:23:14,030 --> 00:23:18,090 ROBERT COSTA: The grace and wit of Mrs. Bush. For more of that interview, watch 343 00:23:18,090 --> 00:23:22,000 In Principle on many PBS stations. Check your local listings. We'll continue this 344 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,140 conversation about Mrs. Bush and so many issues and her legacy online on the 345 00:23:26,140 --> 00:23:30,760 Washington Week Extra. You can find that later tonight at PBS.org/WashingtonWeek. 346 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:55,130 I'm Robert Costa. Have a great weekend.