1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,180 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Welcome to the Washington Week Extra. I'm Yamiche Alcindor. 2 00:00:04,180 --> 00:00:08,290 This week President Biden signed a law making Juneteenth a federal holiday. 3 00:00:08,290 --> 00:00:11,530 The day commemorates the end of slavery in the United States. 4 00:00:11,530 --> 00:00:14,220 Here's some of what President Biden had to say. 5 00:00:14,220 --> 00:00:19,190 PRESIDENT JOSEPH BIDEN: (From video.) I've only been president for several months, but I 6 00:00:19,190 --> 00:00:25,080 think this will go down for me as one of the greatest honors I will have had as president. 7 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:29,910 ALCINDOR: But the country continues to grapple with systemic racial injustice. Many are 8 00:00:29,910 --> 00:00:35,390 disappointed that Congress hasn't been able to pass bills like policing reform or voting protections. 9 00:00:35,390 --> 00:00:39,630 Joining me tonight are four reporters covering all things Washington: Kaitlan Collins, 10 00:00:39,630 --> 00:00:44,330 chief White House correspondent for CNN; Pete Williams, NBC News justice correspondent; 11 00:00:44,330 --> 00:00:48,540 and joining me in studio Anne Gearan, White House reporter for The Washington Post; and 12 00:00:48,540 --> 00:00:52,690 Garrett Haake, Capitol Hill correspondent for NBC News. Welcome to all of you. 13 00:00:52,690 --> 00:00:55,790 Thanks for being here. Anne, I want to start with you. 14 00:00:55,790 --> 00:01:01,060 What's the historical and really the significance of having Juneteenth become a holiday? 15 00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:05,130 It's also possibly personal to you, but tell me a little bit about - (laughter) - about 16 00:01:05,130 --> 00:01:09,140 why you think having Juneteenth be marked in this way is important. 17 00:01:09,140 --> 00:01:15,010 ANNE GEARAN: I mean, I think for President Biden what he said there, it is really telling. 18 00:01:15,010 --> 00:01:20,170 I mean, he - this is - this is a thing that he gets to do that is not about legislation, 19 00:01:20,170 --> 00:01:27,020 it's not about, you know, righting wrongs that he feels Trump has committed, like all the 20 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:32,160 things that essentially have defined his agenda to this point 150 days in. 21 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:38,640 This is something utterly different, and it - clearly it was something that he - that he 22 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:44,560 found moving. Juneteenth, which is also my birthday - (laughs) - which you were alluding to - is 23 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:52,640 already a holiday for many employers and localities in the United States, but it says 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:02:00,880 something about the American commitment to redressing wrong to make it a federal holiday, 25 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,100 and clearly the president felt the same. 26 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:06,530 ALCINDOR: And Kaitlan, I want to come to you. 27 00:02:06,530 --> 00:02:10,180 Talk to me a little bit about whether there was any backlash in Washington or across the 28 00:02:10,180 --> 00:02:14,360 country at all in marking Juneteenth when we think about kind of the racial conversations 29 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,720 that we're still having, the reckoning that we're still having in this country. 30 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,400 KAITLAN COLLINS: Well, and I think also what's notable is how quickly all of this came 31 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,540 about because it was something that had been discussed - as Anne noted, it was already a 32 00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:28,490 holiday in several states but it wasn't a federal holiday, and it didn't, you know, 33 00:02:28,490 --> 00:02:32,550 really get into motion until Senator Ron Johnson dropped his opposition to it, and that's 34 00:02:32,550 --> 00:02:36,890 how you saw it clear the Senate this week with a unanimous vote, but there were 14 35 00:02:36,890 --> 00:02:41,180 lawmakers in the House who voted against it. All of them were Republican, and despite 36 00:02:41,180 --> 00:02:45,480 their opposition of course it became a law anyway. You saw President Biden sign it. 37 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,250 And I think it's one of those things where, obviously, the last time or anytime there 38 00:02:49,250 --> 00:02:53,050 have been these - the establishment of federal holidays, sometimes it is controversial 39 00:02:53,050 --> 00:02:57,280 and sometimes it does spark a big debate in Washington, but I think really in the last 40 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,530 year you have seen a change in the discussion and the conversation that's happening, and 41 00:03:01,530 --> 00:03:05,350 you saw so many lawmakers saying this is an obvious choice, this is something that should 42 00:03:05,350 --> 00:03:07,980 have been done a long time ago. 43 00:03:07,980 --> 00:03:11,590 And I think also it's notable how quickly it went into effect because as - today you 44 00:03:11,590 --> 00:03:15,430 saw here at the White House and across Washington a lot of federal government employees 45 00:03:15,430 --> 00:03:18,830 did not go into work today because, given that it falls on a Saturday this year, they 46 00:03:18,830 --> 00:03:23,160 started observing it today, and I think that's notable in and of itself. 47 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,390 ALCINDOR: And Garrett, I want to come to you. Kaitlan talked about how fast this all came together. 48 00:03:27,390 --> 00:03:32,470 What does it mean that this came together so fast but that you are not seeing voting laws 49 00:03:32,470 --> 00:03:36,550 and voting rights or police reform coming together, and what's the status of those things 50 00:03:36,550 --> 00:03:39,340 that are - that seem to be stalled in Congress right now? 51 00:03:39,340 --> 00:03:41,850 GARRETT HAAKE: Well, Juneteenth I think was an idea whose time has come. 52 00:03:41,850 --> 00:03:45,380 I mean, there was also a key Republican cosponsor of this, John Cornyn, the senator from 53 00:03:45,380 --> 00:03:48,660 Texas. This has been a state holiday in Texas for a long time. 54 00:03:48,660 --> 00:03:52,390 And so - Kaitlan alluded to this - Ron Johnson was kind of the one Republican senator who 55 00:03:52,390 --> 00:03:55,400 had stood in the way on this, a handful of House Republicans. 56 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,720 There was pretty widespread agreement to move this idea forward. 57 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:04,390 Police reform's a much more complicated issue, and the negotiations on that, really the 58 00:04:04,390 --> 00:04:08,090 hallmark of them have been how little information we have learned. The negotiators have 59 00:04:08,090 --> 00:04:12,100 kept everything incredibly close to the vest, and that's actually a pretty good sign. 60 00:04:12,100 --> 00:04:16,000 Once you start getting leaked details, once you start getting leaked pieces of a plan, 61 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,530 that usually tells you somebody's unhappy with how this process is going. 62 00:04:19,530 --> 00:04:23,730 But the other hallmark has been that all the negotiators have really praised that they 63 00:04:23,730 --> 00:04:27,660 think everyone is working in good faith and they have now twice run through deadlines 64 00:04:27,660 --> 00:04:32,630 that they could have easily used to get off this train altogether and say the other 65 00:04:32,630 --> 00:04:36,360 side's not serious, this won't be a big enough bill, or it's going to go too far, and 66 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:41,360 they haven't done that. And so I think there is still a reasonably good chance that 67 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,380 that does get done this Congress, but it's going to have to happen soon. 68 00:04:44,380 --> 00:04:48,920 ALCINDOR: In another historic moment, last weekend Vice President Kamala Harris became the 69 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,530 first sitting vice president to mark in a pride parade. 70 00:04:52,530 --> 00:04:57,660 This comes as states attempt to push back on LGBTQ rights with hundreds of bills. 71 00:04:57,660 --> 00:05:02,300 At the same time the passage of the Equality Act, which aims to prohibit discrimination 72 00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:07,080 based on sexual orientation and gender identity, has stalled in Congress. 73 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,650 Garrett, there's a theme here when I come to you. (Laughter.) What is the status 74 00:05:11,650 --> 00:05:16,120 of the Equality Act and how much is Congress prioritizing this? 75 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,290 HAAKE: Pretty well stuck. I think - you know, it has already passed the House. 76 00:05:19,290 --> 00:05:22,820 Chuck Schumer would love to pass it in Pride Month if that were possible, and the fact 77 00:05:22,820 --> 00:05:26,330 that there has not been movement on it or a vote scheduled or even broadly discussed 78 00:05:26,330 --> 00:05:29,390 suggests to me that it's probably not going to happen. 79 00:05:29,390 --> 00:05:36,090 Republican senators have made issues about transgender women in - or transgender men and 80 00:05:36,090 --> 00:05:41,380 women in sports kind of a cultural issue. It's hot on the right, it's hot on Fox News. 81 00:05:41,380 --> 00:05:46,150 I see - I think it's very unlikely you'd see the necessary Republican crossover to vote 82 00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:50,560 on something that broadens rights for transgender Americans while Republicans are making 83 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,190 that a political issue that they think is helpful to them. 84 00:05:54,190 --> 00:05:58,580 ALCINDOR: Pete, I want to come to you. The Supreme Court ruled that Philadelphia couldn't 85 00:05:58,580 --> 00:06:03,950 cut ties with a Catholic Social Services group because they didn't help LGBTQ people. 86 00:06:03,950 --> 00:06:07,950 What does this ruling mean for protections, for religious groups who may discriminate 87 00:06:07,950 --> 00:06:10,860 against LGBTQ people? 88 00:06:10,860 --> 00:06:15,320 WILLIAMS: Not much. To explain this ruling, you have to go back 30 years when two 89 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:22,190 employees of the state of Oregon were arrested for ingesting peyote. And they happened 90 00:06:22,190 --> 00:06:26,660 to be working for the state counter-drug team, and that didn't go over very well, so they 91 00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:32,150 got fired. They filed for unemployment benefits and the state said no, so they appealed to the 92 00:06:32,150 --> 00:06:37,160 Supreme Court. And Antonin Scalia wrote the Court's decision. He said: If a law is 93 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,150 neutral and applies to everybody there's no religious exemption to it. And that's what 94 00:06:42,150 --> 00:06:46,500 the two state employees had said. They said, well, you know, this law shouldn't apply against us. 95 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:51,070 This was a religious ceremony in which we ingested peyote. So now we fast-forward to 96 00:06:51,070 --> 00:06:56,450 the city of Philadelphia. It found out that Catholic Social Services would not place 97 00:06:56,450 --> 00:06:59,180 foster children in the homes of same-sex parents. 98 00:06:59,180 --> 00:07:03,080 And the city said, hey, that violates our nondiscrimination ordinance, we're going to cut 99 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:08,400 the contract with you, so Catholic Social Services sued and won unanimously before the 100 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:13,860 Supreme Court. But what the Court said is, the law - the way it was administered in 101 00:07:13,860 --> 00:07:20,490 Philadelphia, it wasn't generally applicable to everybody because the law contained exemptions. 102 00:07:20,490 --> 00:07:25,990 And the city could have made exemptions and allowed certain groups to discriminate here 103 00:07:25,990 --> 00:07:31,600 and there. So based on that, the Supreme Court said Catholic Social Services wins. 104 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,230 But it exposed a real rift within the Court because the three most conservative justices 105 00:07:36,230 --> 00:07:41,900 - Thomas, Gorsuch, and Alito - said, you know, the Court should have overruled that old 106 00:07:41,900 --> 00:07:50,210 precedent, that case from Oregon, and the failure to do so was a real lack of intestinal 107 00:07:50,210 --> 00:07:54,750 fortitude, they said. But again, another sign of this division in the Court, and the Court's 108 00:07:54,750 --> 00:07:59,320 desire to move very incrementally - why get into that big question if you don't have to? 109 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,790 ALCINDOR: And, Pete, if I could ask you a follow up, I wonder if you could explain what 110 00:08:02,790 --> 00:08:07,400 that means on the ground in Philadelphia, what that means for children that are going to 111 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,400 go into the foster care system. What's the impact of that? 112 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,190 WILLIAMS: So I think one of the problems with this case is it really didn't have a lot 113 00:08:15,190 --> 00:08:20,800 of real-world implications. Remember, unlike the last time the Supreme Court struggled with 114 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,010 this issue of religious freedom versus gay rights was in the Colorado baker case, where the 115 00:08:25,010 --> 00:08:29,810 baker flat out said, no, I'm not going to bake these cakes, and people were turned away. 116 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:36,670 Here, there's no evidence that any same-sex parents ever were involved with Catholic 117 00:08:36,670 --> 00:08:42,420 Social Services, and Catholic Social Services said, hey, if - you know, if somebody wants 118 00:08:42,420 --> 00:08:46,850 to adopt we'll refer them to other agencies which will be happy to handle that. 119 00:08:46,850 --> 00:08:50,900 So the real practical implications aren't very much. 120 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:54,950 Catholic Social Services will continue to do business with the city to provide these 121 00:08:54,950 --> 00:09:00,260 services, and the real question is, well, will the city now change its contract, do away 122 00:09:00,260 --> 00:09:04,300 with exemptions, and will we have this case all over again? 123 00:09:04,300 --> 00:09:08,130 ALCINDOR: And, Anne, last question to you. The White House and President Biden have 124 00:09:08,130 --> 00:09:11,970 said that they're really going to support LGBTQ rights. 125 00:09:11,970 --> 00:09:15,280 They're really going to have the backs of transgender people, especially transgender 126 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,760 women of color, who we've seen get murdered in disproportionate numbers. 127 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,680 I wonder what the priority - where the state - where this is on the priority list of the 128 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,680 White House and what they're planning to do about this issue. 129 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:31,900 GEARAN: Well, I mean, there hasn't been some particular test yet that the White House 130 00:09:31,900 --> 00:09:36,830 has had to meet. So we don't really know the answer as to how committed they are. 131 00:09:36,830 --> 00:09:45,410 I mean, another Supreme Court challenge on another topic may be that test, you know, to 132 00:09:45,410 --> 00:09:51,190 what degree does the administration put muscle behind it. I mean, they're saying the 133 00:09:51,190 --> 00:10:00,060 things that LGBTQ rights groups wants to hear, in the main. There are a number of openly 134 00:10:00,060 --> 00:10:05,650 gay members of the administration who are celebrated as such. 135 00:10:05,650 --> 00:10:12,200 I think that - I think at this point it's more symbolic than substantive, but they 136 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,550 haven't yet had to really do anything specific. 137 00:10:16,550 --> 00:10:20,480 ALCINDOR: So we'll have to watch that space. We'll leave it there for tonight. 138 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,460 Many thanks to Kaitlan, Pete, Anne, and Garrett, for your insights, and thank you all for 139 00:10:24,460 --> 00:10:28,590 joining us. Make sure to sign up for our Washington Week newsletter on our website. 140 00:10:28,590 --> 00:10:31,830 It will give you a behind the scenes look at all things Washington. 141 00:10:31,830 --> 00:10:45,720 I'm Yamiche Alcindor. Good night.