WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.520 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Fallout over foreign intelligence. I'm Robert Costa. Welcome to Washington 00:05.520 --> 00:13.500 align:start Week. Tensions between the United States and Iran following explosions on two oil tankers. 00:13.500 --> 00:16.970 align:start SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO: (From video.) Iran should meet diplomacy with diplomacy, 00:16.970 --> 00:19.840 align:start not with terror, bloodshed, and extortion. 00:19.840 --> 00:24.870 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Backtrack. President Trump now says he would alert the FBI if a 00:24.870 --> 00:30.760 align:start foreign power offered him political dirt one day after he scoffed at the idea. 00:30.760 --> 00:36.140 align:start All this as Speaker Pelosi holds the line on impeachment. 00:36.140 --> 00:38.930 align:start HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): (From video.) I don't think there's anything more 00:38.930 --> 00:41.920 align:start divisive we can do than to impeach a president of the United States. 00:41.920 --> 00:45.060 align:start And so you have to handle it with great care. 00:45.060 --> 00:48.100 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We cover it all, next. 00:48.100 --> 00:58.840 align:start ANNOUNCER: This is Washington Week. Once again, from Washington, moderator Robert Costa. 00:58.840 --> 01:03.960 align:start ROBERT COSTA: President Trump insisted on Friday that Iran was responsible for the 01:03.960 --> 01:08.840 align:start recent explosions on two tankers, bringing the United States and Iran closer to a 01:08.840 --> 01:14.780 align:start confrontation. On Thursday two petrochemical tankers were crippled in the Gulf of Oman, 01:14.780 --> 01:19.890 align:start an area that is key for global energy supplies. U.S. military leaders released photos 01:19.890 --> 01:25.790 align:start and this video, which they claim show Iranian special forces removing an unexploded mine. 01:25.790 --> 01:29.780 align:start Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called it a crisis moment. 01:29.780 --> 01:33.800 align:start SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO: (From video.) Taken as a whole, these unprovoked attacks 01:33.800 --> 01:38.280 align:start present a clear threat to international peace and security, a blatant assault on the 01:38.280 --> 01:44.290 align:start freedom of navigation, and an unacceptable campaign of escalating tension by Iran. 01:44.290 --> 01:48.290 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But Iran has denied involvement and accused the Trump administration of 01:48.290 --> 01:51.360 align:start stoking talk of war. 01:51.360 --> 01:55.490 align:start Joining me tonight are four of the sharpest reporters who cover this president: Peter 01:55.490 --> 02:00.880 align:start Baker, chief White House correspondent for The New York Times; Yamiche Alcindor, White 02:00.880 --> 02:06.450 align:start House correspondent for the PBS NewsHour; Ashley Parker, White House reporter for The 02:06.450 --> 02:12.550 align:start Washington Post; and Eamon Javers, Washington correspondent for CNBC. 02:12.550 --> 02:17.590 align:start Peter, when you look at all of the facts and all of the different cues from this 02:17.590 --> 02:22.550 align:start administration, is President Trump leaning toward military intervention? 02:22.550 --> 02:26.020 align:start PETER BAKER: That's a great question. He was very straightforward today in saying that 02:26.020 --> 02:29.960 align:start Iran is responsible, didn't hedge it. He said it's got, essentially, Iran written all 02:29.960 --> 02:33.770 align:start over it. And yet, if you listen to what he was saying, he was not threatening action. 02:33.770 --> 02:38.330 align:start He didn't actually use the more bombastic terminology that he often does, and he even 02:38.330 --> 02:41.960 align:start said, for instance, that he was still open to talks if the Iranians wanted to have it - 02:41.960 --> 02:45.890 align:start I'm ready when they are, he said; I'm not in a rush. And I think he was trying to 02:45.890 --> 02:48.910 align:start be more measured - more measured, perhaps, than his more hawkish advisors - 02:48.910 --> 02:53.870 align:start Mike Pompeo, John Bolton, who are more forward-leaning, I think, on Iran. 02:53.870 --> 02:58.920 align:start This is a president who for all of his, you know, bellicose language, is actually not 02:58.920 --> 03:03.040 align:start somebody who's eager to get into war overseas. So I think he's holding back at the moment. 03:03.040 --> 03:05.240 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Is that what your reporting tells you? 03:05.240 --> 03:08.840 align:start Is the president still this non-interventionist at heart, but he's surrounded by hawks 03:08.840 --> 03:11.930 align:start like National Security Adviser John Bolton? 03:11.930 --> 03:16.140 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: Well, he is until he isn't. On the whole he is an anti-interventionalist. 03:16.140 --> 03:21.790 align:start There's a couple core values he holds despite being not particularly ideological, and 03:21.790 --> 03:27.130 align:start that is one of them. And especially he was pretty forward - not always - but against 03:27.130 --> 03:31.950 align:start the Iraq War, and so it's sort of the same region, the same concerns you have rising up. 03:31.950 --> 03:34.560 align:start Is it Iran? He said very forcefully it was. 03:34.560 --> 03:38.160 align:start But there was some talk that no one has actually provided the evidence and there would 03:38.160 --> 03:42.540 align:start be some hesitancy to getting into a war in that region with no evidence. But again, in 03:42.540 --> 03:46.630 align:start addition to being surrounded by these hardline hawks, the president is also someone who 03:46.630 --> 03:51.880 align:start can be provoked. Everything is about him and his ego, and he doesn't like to be diminished. 03:51.880 --> 03:56.510 align:start And so there is a world in which, if Iran - there's a tweet that provokes him or goes too 03:56.510 --> 04:01.370 align:start far, or a statement, he could change his position on a dime and then, frankly, change back again. 04:01.370 --> 04:05.130 align:start ROBERT COSTA: It all comes down to this video that we saw from Secretary of State Pompeo. 04:05.130 --> 04:10.020 align:start The Japanese shipping company involved has contested the U.S.'s conclusion that it was 04:10.020 --> 04:14.370 align:start definitely Iran. Is the U.S. going to stand by this video? 04:14.370 --> 04:17.400 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: It seems as though the U.S. is going to stand by this video. 04:17.400 --> 04:21.660 align:start I, in some ways, share Ashley's idea of the fact that people can change their mind, 04:21.660 --> 04:25.860 align:start including the president being the key person who is obviously always changing his mind. 04:25.860 --> 04:29.690 align:start I've talked to some sources that are part of the national security apparatus and are 04:29.690 --> 04:33.590 align:start White House advisors, and they've been really stressing the idea that Iran is this 04:33.590 --> 04:38.120 align:start corrupt nation in the U.S.'s eyes, that they are someone who has corrupted the national 04:38.120 --> 04:41.950 align:start banks in their country, they're someone who's really a bad actor in that region. 04:41.950 --> 04:46.220 align:start But I think it's - so in some ways I think the president has been clear about the fact 04:46.220 --> 04:51.420 align:start that he thinks this is Iran because of that - those background ideas. That being said, 04:51.420 --> 04:56.470 align:start who knows where this goes? Because I think the president, as both Peter and Ashley said, 04:56.470 --> 05:00.410 align:start he was someone who got into this race understanding that war was not what his 05:00.410 --> 05:03.830 align:start supporters wanted. And I remember thinking - talking to this woman in Pennsylvania 05:03.830 --> 05:06.960 align:start who was very concerned about the Iran nuclear deal. 05:06.960 --> 05:11.930 align:start So these are people, I think, that sometimes are talked about as working-class 05:11.930 --> 05:14.840 align:start people who are interested in the economy and other things; as a reporter, I was taken 05:14.840 --> 05:17.500 align:start aback by the fact that she was really focused on the Iran nuclear deal. 05:17.500 --> 05:19.870 align:start She was really focused on not getting into more wars. 05:19.870 --> 05:22.450 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But people are focused on the economy. When you're over at CNBC and you're 05:22.450 --> 05:26.340 align:start talking to investors, what do they think this whole standoff means for the global economy? 05:26.340 --> 05:28.740 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Well, look, the oil market is looking right at this. 05:28.740 --> 05:33.490 align:start And as we were covering the Mike Pompeo statement yesterday, one of the, I think, real 05:33.490 --> 05:37.180 align:start tells there was Pompeo emphasized that this is - there's going to be a diplomatic and 05:37.180 --> 05:41.110 align:start economic response here. You know, he kept all the options on the table, as they 05:41.110 --> 05:45.300 align:start always do, but he was really emphasizing diplomacy and economic response. 05:45.300 --> 05:48.660 align:start So I think that sends a signal to the market that this is a government in the United 05:48.660 --> 05:52.040 align:start States that doesn't want to get into a shooting war in the Gulf, doesn't want to be in a 05:52.040 --> 05:55.850 align:start shooting war with Iran, and will do what it can to keep out of that. 05:55.850 --> 05:58.900 align:start So I think that sent a message of reassurance to global markets, but that's - 05:58.900 --> 06:01.100 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Could it affect gas prices this summer? 06:01.100 --> 06:03.630 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Absolutely it could, yeah. Absolutely it could. 06:03.630 --> 06:07.040 align:start I mean, that is - it is - if you look at the map, the Gulf there is such a tiny little 06:07.040 --> 06:10.530 align:start space, and so much of the world's oil goes through there, and there are so many hostile 06:10.530 --> 06:14.920 align:start countries and military forces right there that it's just a real bottleneck. 06:14.920 --> 06:19.400 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Coming back to the foreign policy challenge here, what kind of test is this for 06:19.400 --> 06:23.990 align:start President Trump? He's faced a lot, but this is a particular bringing him close to the brink. 06:23.990 --> 06:27.540 align:start PETER BAKER: Well, it is a test. It's a test on two levels. One, it's a test in terms 06:27.540 --> 06:35.870 align:start of his handling of Iran, right? How do you exercise a tough policy, which is what he wants, 06:35.870 --> 06:40.510 align:start short of getting into a shooting war - through sanctions, through diplomacy, what have you? 06:40.510 --> 06:44.180 align:start Right now he's trying to convince the Europeans that he's right about these tankers - 06:44.180 --> 06:47.170 align:start there's some skepticism there - and that's the second test. The second test is this 06:47.170 --> 06:50.450 align:start is not a president whose relationship with the truth has been particularly close. 06:50.450 --> 06:54.610 align:start And we've seen this now for three presidents, right? Ever since George W. Bush 06:54.610 --> 06:59.700 align:start and the Iraq War went south with the failure to find WMD, the public at large, the 06:59.700 --> 07:03.680 align:start world at large has been skeptical of Americans saying, hey, look at something bad that 07:03.680 --> 07:07.250 align:start somebody has done. That happened to Barack Obama when he was accusing Syria of 07:07.250 --> 07:11.410 align:start gassing its own people. This is a president whose own credibility is much more 07:11.410 --> 07:14.940 align:start questioned than either of those presidents, and I think that's a challenge for him. 07:14.940 --> 07:18.230 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: And this is also a president, when you talk about needing to - if they 07:18.230 --> 07:21.270 align:start were going to take actions, ideally he would be able to bring allies and the rest of the 07:21.270 --> 07:25.130 align:start globe onboard. And these are people who, for the reasons Peter stated but also because 07:25.130 --> 07:31.090 align:start of the way the president has behaved - which is that he pulls out of treaties; he alienates, 07:31.090 --> 07:37.220 align:start you know, our neighbors to the north and to the south; he has threatened to destroy NATO. 07:37.220 --> 07:40.290 align:start And you know, I've been on a lot of trips, actually, with the vice president, who is 07:40.290 --> 07:43.270 align:start always sort of coming in behind him and saying that thing the president said, don't 07:43.270 --> 07:45.760 align:start worry, it's not quite as bad as you think. 07:45.760 --> 07:49.270 align:start So he's now in a position where he has to convince allies who he's alienated in a lot of 07:49.270 --> 07:54.070 align:start ways to come onboard and do something that they may sort of agree with in theory, but not 07:54.070 --> 07:58.740 align:start in policy and tactics and in practice, and it's a(n) uphill battle. 07:58.740 --> 08:01.100 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We're going to be keeping an eye on - you wanted - 08:01.100 --> 08:04.280 align:start EAMON JAVERS: I was just going to say one last thought is the hawks are a little bit in 08:04.280 --> 08:07.210 align:start retreat in this administration after the Venezuela episode, you know, where the United 08:07.210 --> 08:10.000 align:start States was backing a challenge to the incumbent government in Venezuela. 08:10.000 --> 08:13.940 align:start It seemed like we were sort of on the verge of something there, and then on the verge of 08:13.940 --> 08:16.650 align:start potentially changing the governments; that didn't work out. 08:16.650 --> 08:19.600 align:start I think the hawks took some of the blame for that internally inside the White House, and 08:19.600 --> 08:22.950 align:start so that means that they're a little bit on the back foot right now. 08:22.950 --> 08:25.820 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And so much you wonder is this hard line from the president and his 08:25.820 --> 08:29.600 align:start advisors right now about pushing Iran to come to the negotiating table since the 08:29.600 --> 08:33.320 align:start administration walked out of the Iran nuclear deal. We'll be keeping an eye on it. 08:33.320 --> 08:37.270 align:start But let's turn to the firestorm President Trump ignited this week when he told ABC News 08:37.270 --> 08:42.010 align:start that he did not see anything wrong with receiving information on political rivals from a 08:42.010 --> 08:46.630 align:start foreign actor. On Friday he then told Fox News that "of course" - his words - he would 08:46.630 --> 08:51.850 align:start alert the FBI after reviewing the material. The president's remarks outraged Democrats in 08:51.850 --> 08:57.040 align:start Congress, and some said as they have been saying it's time to begin the impeachment process. 08:57.040 --> 08:59.900 align:start REPRESENTATIVE ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): (From video.) It seems as though we're 08:59.900 --> 09:03.300 align:start kind of sitting on our hands. So if now isn't the time, then I think 09:03.300 --> 09:06.370 align:start a lot of folks would like to know, when is the time? 09:06.370 --> 09:09.010 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Speaker Pelosi, facing a lot of that pressure. 09:09.010 --> 09:11.810 align:start We've been talking about it for weeks, about the impeachment question. 09:11.810 --> 09:15.750 align:start But the president's comments about foreign intelligence, what message does that send to 09:15.750 --> 09:19.550 align:start the intelligence community? People like FBI Director Chris Wray? 09:19.550 --> 09:23.020 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: It says that the president is going to openly criticize you, and the 09:23.020 --> 09:28.060 align:start president's going to do that really with his own political success in the back of his mind. 09:28.060 --> 09:32.030 align:start So I think when we think about all that this president has said, all the scandals, all 09:32.030 --> 09:36.790 align:start the controversies, something like this will stand out, I think, in time and in history. 09:36.790 --> 09:40.930 align:start Because what we had was the president essentially saying in 2020 I'm open again 09:40.930 --> 09:45.130 align:start to talking to foreign countries about dirt on my political opponents. 09:45.130 --> 09:51.750 align:start And I think Nancy Pelosi is in a space where AOC and other freshmen on Capitol Hill, they 09:51.750 --> 09:57.460 align:start want fast movement. They want some reaction. Nancy Pelosi, though, this week was very cautious. 09:57.460 --> 10:01.080 align:start And she said, look, I'm not going to be pushed into any one thing being the thing that's 10:01.080 --> 10:05.300 align:start going to push me into trying to get impeachment proceedings. And I think what she 10:05.300 --> 10:09.230 align:start wants at the end of this, whenever she - if she ever does end up going for impeachment 10:09.230 --> 10:12.620 align:start proceedings, is to say: Look, I held out as long as I possibly could. 10:12.620 --> 10:15.710 align:start This is now about patriotism. This is now about the country. 10:15.710 --> 10:20.380 align:start And I think when we see her weathering all these scandals and not going knee-jerk 10:20.380 --> 10:24.000 align:start reaction into impeachment talk, that might give her more credibility. 10:24.000 --> 10:26.880 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Look, I mean, one of the things you have to think about here is how 10:26.880 --> 10:31.000 align:start vulnerable is this president, right? I mean, he views the idea of getting intelligence 10:31.000 --> 10:35.380 align:start from a foreign power for his campaign as a potential strength for his campaign. 10:35.380 --> 10:37.930 align:start But the same thing could happen on the other side, right? 10:37.930 --> 10:41.240 align:start The Chinese could go out and get his tax returns from an American computer, steal those, 10:41.240 --> 10:44.590 align:start put them onto WikiLeaks, or the equivalent thereof, and put that out there. 10:44.590 --> 10:48.680 align:start Or, you know, the next Stormy Daniels set of documents, whatever the president's 10:48.680 --> 10:51.560 align:start vulnerabilities might be. Those are hackable. 10:51.560 --> 10:55.100 align:start So if the president is sending a signal here to foreign intelligence services, look, you 10:55.100 --> 10:58.900 align:start know, it's OK for Americans to take a look at whatever you guys produce, you're going 10:58.900 --> 11:02.770 align:start to have a lot of hostile foreign intelligence services playing in the 2020 elections. 11:02.770 --> 11:05.550 align:start ROBERT COSTA: It is illegal, though. I mean, you look at what FEC Chair Ellen Weintraub 11:05.550 --> 11:10.330 align:start said this week, she said - she had to issue a tweet saying: I would not have 11:10.330 --> 11:13.660 align:start thought I needed to say this. She said, it is illegal to accept a campaign contribution 11:13.660 --> 11:16.880 align:start or information from a foreign national. You have to report it to the FBI. 11:16.880 --> 11:20.530 align:start PETER BAKER: Yeah, there's - I mean, there's a legal debate here as to whether, you 11:20.530 --> 11:23.720 align:start know, derogatory information about Hillary Clinton would constitute a thing of value 11:23.720 --> 11:26.900 align:start under the law, right? We haven't tested that in a court, I think, before. 11:26.900 --> 11:29.700 align:start You could make the argument it is. But - 11:29.700 --> 11:31.630 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Mueller shied away from saying that. 11:31.630 --> 11:35.060 align:start PETER BAKER: But Mueller shied away from that. Nobody accused any - made a legal assertion 11:35.060 --> 11:40.020 align:start in that regard. The more interesting thing, in some ways, is how a president who had 11:40.020 --> 11:45.410 align:start basically kind of moved on past the Russia thing, and the conversation now was about 11:45.410 --> 11:49.070 align:start obstruction of justice and this subpoena fight, could be impeached for things that 11:49.070 --> 11:52.400 align:start were actually not about Russia specifically, and now he's put Russia back on the table. 11:52.400 --> 11:54.510 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But why can't he move on? 11:54.510 --> 11:56.940 align:start PETER BAKER: Well - I mean, Ashley probably has a better sense of it. 11:56.940 --> 11:59.130 align:start She wrote a good piece on impeachment this week. 11:59.130 --> 12:02.260 align:start But I think he's just absolutely obsessed about this and he just wants to, you know, 12:02.260 --> 12:07.120 align:start prove he's right, and undercut anybody who's questioning his legitimacy. 12:07.120 --> 12:10.590 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: Well, one reason is - first, I think what he said, that he was open, 12:10.590 --> 12:13.760 align:start again, to foreign intelligence, you have to take him at his word. That's what he said 12:13.760 --> 12:17.610 align:start in a public interview. But something people close to him have said is this also comes 12:17.610 --> 12:21.260 align:start down to what a lot of things with him come down to, which is his legitimacy. 12:21.260 --> 12:26.980 align:start And so when he went out there in that interview and said this, part of it was him sort of 12:26.980 --> 12:30.930 align:start trying to say: I did nothing wrong the first time. That whole thing you were attacking 12:30.930 --> 12:34.930 align:start me for, that witch hunt, what I've called it, there was nothing wrong with it. 12:34.930 --> 12:38.350 align:start And therefore, I would do it again. So they sort of stress, it's not so much that he 12:38.350 --> 12:42.490 align:start would do it again, he was trying to defend what he had done before. And also, frankly, 12:42.490 --> 12:47.750 align:start defend his son - his namesake eldest son - who did take that meeting. And so he's in this 12:47.750 --> 12:52.220 align:start tough place where it felt almost deeply personal, rather than the info he really wanted. 12:52.220 --> 12:54.730 align:start PETER BAKER: Was on Capitol Hill that same day testifying. ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah, exactly. 12:54.730 --> 12:56.820 align:start PETER BAKER: So it was on the top of his - ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah. 12:56.820 --> 12:59.790 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Let's stay with this legitimacy point, because it's so important to 12:59.790 --> 13:02.860 align:start understand, if you're asking why doesn't Leader McConnell in the Senate move on this 13:02.860 --> 13:06.410 align:start legislation about reporting on the FBI if you get foreign information, is that because, 13:06.410 --> 13:11.930 align:start Ashley, you have Republicans wary of angering this president, knowing he's so sensitive 13:11.930 --> 13:15.430 align:start about the legitimacy of what happened in 2016? They don't want to pursue 13:15.430 --> 13:19.040 align:start these kind of things in the Senate because of that underlying issue. 13:19.040 --> 13:22.290 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: Well, they don't want to - they've shown a deep unwillingness to cross 13:22.290 --> 13:26.580 align:start him on any number of issues. And there's certain case studies where you do, if you look 13:26.580 --> 13:30.420 align:start at Justin Amash, who's now going to get a primary, where they just don't want to go there. 13:30.420 --> 13:34.720 align:start But they are aware of the legitimacy issue, that that is what drove everything. 13:34.720 --> 13:38.430 align:start When they talk about the Mueller probe, they sort of say the whole obstruction bucket 13:38.430 --> 13:42.390 align:start would not have even happened, but for the fact because of what the president felt was a 13:42.390 --> 13:46.670 align:start threat on his legitimacy, he basically - we watched him self-sabotage and self-destruct 13:46.670 --> 13:49.070 align:start in real time for two years. 13:49.070 --> 13:52.010 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Now, imagine if you're the U.S. intelligence community watching all this 13:52.010 --> 13:55.470 align:start this week. Earlier in the week we had the president say, when it was revealed that 13:55.470 --> 14:00.100 align:start Kim Jong-un's half-brother, or family member, had been a source of information for the 14:00.100 --> 14:03.780 align:start CIA. The president said, well, that wouldn't happen under my watch. 14:03.780 --> 14:07.430 align:start So you're in effect suggesting to the CIA that they shouldn't gather intelligence on 14:07.430 --> 14:12.270 align:start hostile governments from useful sources. And then they see this. 14:12.270 --> 14:15.770 align:start Their heads must be spinning at Langley trying to figure out how do they gather 14:15.770 --> 14:19.340 align:start intelligence in a world where the president's saying: We are not going to - or, we're 14:19.340 --> 14:23.350 align:start going to put a slowdown on spying on the North Koreans, and we're also sending signals 14:23.350 --> 14:27.820 align:start that says that the United States election in 2020 is open for foreign interference? 14:27.820 --> 14:30.870 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And this issue is not some issue that's way out there in left field. 14:30.870 --> 14:34.220 align:start There was a hearing this week on deep fake videos, all the different social 14:34.220 --> 14:37.660 align:start disinformation campaigns that are going to be expected in 2020. 14:37.660 --> 14:40.690 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, one of the most remarkable things - and Ashley's talked about it 14:40.690 --> 14:44.510 align:start - this idea that he's worried about his presidency not being seen as legitimate. 14:44.510 --> 14:48.790 align:start But it's also about his ego, and this idea that he can sell to the American people that 14:48.790 --> 14:53.760 align:start this is just the way that things work. I think enveloped in his conversation was this 14:53.760 --> 14:57.650 align:start idea that, oh, if you look at lawmakers, who wouldn't want this information? 14:57.650 --> 15:01.230 align:start Who would call the FBI? What kind of person calls the FBI? It's almost like saying: 15:01.230 --> 15:05.730 align:start No snitches. And this idea that this is the president of the United States talking sort 15:05.730 --> 15:11.900 align:start of like a mobster. And I think that that is part of the president's ego, part of his personality. 15:11.900 --> 15:16.070 align:start He thinks that, I think, as a result, he can - he can ride this wave and be politically 15:16.070 --> 15:20.640 align:start successful, regardless. You know, when Eamon was talking about this idea that, you know, 15:20.640 --> 15:24.950 align:start people could hack and his tax returns, or get the next Stormy Daniels. But I was thinking 15:24.950 --> 15:28.070 align:start to myself, he's already weathered those things. He's already weathered Stormy Daniels. 15:28.070 --> 15:30.980 align:start He's already weathered people knowing that he was a millionaire at eight years old. 15:30.980 --> 15:33.020 align:start So in some ways, in his mind, he might - 15:33.020 --> 15:34.880 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Maybe he's invincible. 15:34.880 --> 15:36.990 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Yeah, I'm invincible. Go ahead and try to hack me. 15:36.990 --> 15:38.900 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Ashley? 15:38.900 --> 15:41.670 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: Yeah. I mean, this gets to a sort of different point, but one thing I 15:41.670 --> 15:44.650 align:start think we're going to see the Democrats struggle with is sort of what I think of as 15:44.650 --> 15:48.170 align:start asymmetrical warfare, which is that the same rules of engagement, for whatever reason, 15:48.170 --> 15:52.500 align:start don't apply to the president. So that could be hacking a different candidate's tax 15:52.500 --> 15:55.670 align:start returns, if they choose not to release them, could be devastating for his Democratic 15:55.670 --> 16:00.710 align:start rival. But for him, there's absolutely no problem. Same thing with lies or mistruths. 16:00.710 --> 16:04.520 align:start He can go up, and he's paid no price generally with his supporters. And you could see him 16:04.520 --> 16:08.300 align:start on a debate stage with someone else who fudges the facts, and they pay a tremendous price. 16:08.300 --> 16:11.510 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Peter, we're talking about the impeachment issue in the House. 16:11.510 --> 16:13.820 align:start It seems like it comes up every week. 16:13.820 --> 16:18.190 align:start The Democrats, Speaker Pelosi say the president has committed offenses that could be 16:18.190 --> 16:20.920 align:start impeachable, but they don't really move forward on impeachment proceedings. 16:20.920 --> 16:24.820 align:start Is that because, regardless of each week's controversy - and this week it's the ABC News 16:24.820 --> 16:29.040 align:start interview - Democrats are seeing polling or hearing from constituents that they'd just 16:29.040 --> 16:31.620 align:start rather not see the Democrats go in that direction? 16:31.620 --> 16:34.760 align:start PETER BAKER: I think a mix of things. I think - I mean, we are sort of in an 16:34.760 --> 16:38.550 align:start impeachment inquiry, we're just not calling it that, right? And their strategy is to 16:38.550 --> 16:42.800 align:start see if over time they get enough testimony or evidence that somehow changes that 16:42.800 --> 16:46.200 align:start dynamic. You're right, polls show Americans don't want him impeached right now. 16:46.200 --> 16:51.390 align:start None of them do. Like 40-45 percent have said that they might be for opening 16:51.390 --> 16:55.940 align:start impeachment inquiry, but a majority doesn't. So do you overcome a democratic election 16:55.940 --> 17:01.800 align:start without a mandate from the public? And it is a political process. The framers rested it 17:01.800 --> 17:05.110 align:start in the House of Representatives for a reason. That's a political body. 17:05.110 --> 17:10.140 align:start And so it's not - it's not surprising that they would have an eye to what's happening 17:10.140 --> 17:12.580 align:start politically if they took this risk. 17:12.580 --> 17:15.490 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Look, what they're struggling with is what happens if you impeach in the 17:15.490 --> 17:18.590 align:start House and then send it to a Republican Senate, right? So they can have an impeachment vote. 17:18.590 --> 17:22.570 align:start They can probably get it done in Pelosi's caucus in the House. But then, you send it 17:22.570 --> 17:27.450 align:start to the Senate for a trial, and it looks like, with the Republican majority, that the 17:27.450 --> 17:31.340 align:start president would be acquitted. So their - at that point, Democrats have kind of run this 17:31.340 --> 17:35.270 align:start flag up the flagpole, then back down again. And they feel like that would be a political loser. 17:35.270 --> 17:40.110 align:start PETER BAKER: And you've exposed, what, 20-30 Democrats who sit in Trump districts, 17:40.110 --> 17:44.230 align:start right? They may have just won their seats, who are, you know, leaning to the center or 17:44.230 --> 17:47.620 align:start to the right, as it is. And you've exposed them on a vote that might cost them. 17:47.620 --> 17:49.380 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Right. 17:49.380 --> 17:52.150 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And I was talking to a House Democrat this week who was prepared to rally 17:52.150 --> 17:55.590 align:start around the impeachment idea because of what was happening in that ABC News interview. 17:55.590 --> 17:59.150 align:start Then they said a torrent of new things happened. You got the president flips his 17:59.150 --> 18:02.980 align:start statement on Fox News in a call-in. You got what's happening with Iran. 18:02.980 --> 18:07.340 align:start That even if Democrats try to seize on something and bring it to public attention, 18:07.340 --> 18:11.880 align:start there's a wave of new pieces of news that make it harder for them to make that case. 18:11.880 --> 18:15.740 align:start Finally, President Trump had nothing but praise for outgoing Press Secretary Sarah 18:15.740 --> 18:19.860 align:start Huckabee Sanders, who announced she would leave the White House at the end of this month. 18:19.860 --> 18:23.850 align:start Sanders has been one of Mr. Trump's most loyal defenders during a tumultuous period. 18:23.850 --> 18:27.580 align:start The president called her, quote, "a warrior," and urged her to run for governor of her 18:27.580 --> 18:37.200 align:start home state of Arkansas. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, press secretary, what's her legacy? Ashley? 18:37.200 --> 18:43.150 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: I mean, her key legacy is that she effectively ended the White House 18:43.150 --> 18:48.150 align:start briefing. I think today is the 95th day when we have not had a briefing. Does that mean 18:48.150 --> 18:52.350 align:start it won't be reinstated again? I don't know. It seems less likely under a Trump 18:52.350 --> 18:56.450 align:start presidency. But if we're talking about her key legacy, I would argue that's it. 18:56.450 --> 18:59.530 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Did that hurt the press' ability to report? 18:59.530 --> 19:05.030 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: So two things. I believe that the press briefing is important. There 19:05.030 --> 19:09.040 align:start was sort of lots of intellectual chatter about should reporters boycott the briefing. 19:09.040 --> 19:11.970 align:start I always believed that when you have an opportunity to show up and ask someone in a 19:11.970 --> 19:16.070 align:start position of power questions and get them on the record, there is value in doing that. 19:16.070 --> 19:20.260 align:start That said, a lot of what you see in the press briefing is posturing and them being 19:20.260 --> 19:24.170 align:start antagonistic, us. In a lot of I think all of our reporting that we really got done, 19:24.170 --> 19:26.500 align:start the reporting we're proud of, that told something new to our readers, happened 19:26.500 --> 19:28.750 align:start behind the scenes and not from an answer we got at the podium. 19:28.750 --> 19:30.950 align:start ROBERT COSTA: What about her relationship with the truth? 19:30.950 --> 19:34.980 align:start You think about what she said in May of 2017, that she had all these pieces of 19:34.980 --> 19:39.450 align:start information coming in from former FBI agents, FBI employees, and then she had to correct 19:39.450 --> 19:44.470 align:start that when she was interviewed by Robert Mueller. Her legacy on the truth. 19:44.470 --> 19:48.660 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: She had pretty much no credibility by the end of her job. 19:48.660 --> 19:54.020 align:start I hate to say that because I think she's a nice woman, but most of the information that 19:54.020 --> 19:58.780 align:start she shared with reporters had to be checked and rechecked because we knew that this was 19:58.780 --> 20:03.480 align:start someone who was not going to be always, if not the majority of the time, telling us the truth. 20:03.480 --> 20:08.900 align:start I think on whether or not you're judging her on the president's - the way that he would 20:08.900 --> 20:13.890 align:start view her, she was obviously a good spokesperson for him and she definitely set out his agenda. 20:13.890 --> 20:20.950 align:start But as a reporter, I was dismayed by her, frankly, not telling us the truth a lot of times. 20:20.950 --> 20:24.210 align:start PETER BAKER: Yeah, look, Sarah Sanders had the title of press secretary, but she didn't 20:24.210 --> 20:28.020 align:start have the job of press secretary. That job happens to be filled by Donald John Trump, 20:28.020 --> 20:32.620 align:start and that's the way he wants it. And so because of that there was no briefing, right? 20:32.620 --> 20:36.840 align:start She was afraid that or she was - you know, she was not supposed to get out in front of 20:36.840 --> 20:42.060 align:start the president. That's a mistake in the sense that a press secretary can take arrows for 20:42.060 --> 20:47.790 align:start a president that he or she might not want to take. But you know, on the other hand, this 20:47.790 --> 20:51.660 align:start president allows us, reporters, to ask him questions in a way that his predecessors did 20:51.660 --> 20:55.550 align:start not. We get much more access to him directly than we did under President Obama. 20:55.550 --> 20:58.400 align:start That's absolutely sure, and definitely under President Bush as well. 20:58.400 --> 21:01.750 align:start EAMON JAVERS: That's true, but the access that we get is in these scrums out on the 21:01.750 --> 21:05.210 align:start South Lawn where we are literally shoulder to shoulder and sometimes on - people are 21:05.210 --> 21:08.280 align:start climbing up on top of your back, everyone shouting a question, and - 21:08.280 --> 21:10.740 align:start PETER BAKER: I keep telling you, actually, to stop doing that. (Laughter.) 21:10.740 --> 21:12.750 align:start EAMON JAVERS: And some of these people are vicious in that scrum. 21:12.750 --> 21:14.460 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: Get that extra boost. (Laughter.) 21:14.460 --> 21:16.920 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: And she can dodge questions that way if there are things - if there 21:16.920 --> 21:19.940 align:start are topics that the president or Sarah Sanders doesn't want to talk about - immigration, 21:19.940 --> 21:23.490 align:start the fact that he was named in the New Zealand shooter's manifesto. 21:23.490 --> 21:27.300 align:start These are all things that the president and Sarah Sanders could just dodge when they 21:27.300 --> 21:29.210 align:start didn't feel like talking about that. 21:29.210 --> 21:31.620 align:start EAMON JAVERS: The president stands there and he hears all the questions coming at him 21:31.620 --> 21:34.010 align:start simultaneously, and so he can pick the ones that he wants to answer. 21:34.010 --> 21:36.640 align:start PETER BAKER: And you have to ask the question in a short burst - what about Iran, sir; 21:36.640 --> 21:39.510 align:start what about this. You can't ask a predicate - Mr. President, you said this on this 21:39.510 --> 21:41.940 align:start day, but on this day your Pentagon said this. And he had - 21:41.940 --> 21:45.090 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: It's like word association, you just shout out the name and have him go - 21:45.090 --> 21:47.020 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Topic. PETER BAKER: Go, right, right. 21:47.020 --> 21:49.060 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: Which is not the most effective way to do it. One - 21:49.060 --> 21:51.050 align:start PETER BAKER: But he does talk to us. I mean, let's not underestimate the importance of that. 21:51.050 --> 21:53.020 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Yeah, that's true. ASHLEY PARKER: Yes. 21:53.020 --> 21:55.890 align:start PETER BAKER: Obama - President Obama, weeks went by without any opportunity for White 21:55.890 --> 21:58.470 align:start House reporters to ask him questions. Whole controversies came and went, we never asked him 21:58.470 --> 22:01.940 align:start once about it. And I think that, you know, it's not ideal; we do get more than we used to get. 22:01.940 --> 22:04.340 align:start EAMON JAVERS: I was in - I was in Sarah Sanders' office yesterday just after the 22:04.340 --> 22:06.990 align:start announcement was made public, and she was talking to a few of us. 22:06.990 --> 22:12.080 align:start And on a human level, she seemed really choked up and really emotional as she was talking 22:12.080 --> 22:16.690 align:start to us about her tenure. She was asked if she felt that - she regretted not holding 22:16.690 --> 22:19.500 align:start more press briefings, and she said no, for exactly that reason. 22:19.500 --> 22:21.590 align:start She said the president speaks for himself. 22:21.590 --> 22:24.220 align:start ASHLEY PARKER: And one brief thing that I think people don't know about Sarah Sanders, 22:24.220 --> 22:27.010 align:start despite all these other legacies of hers we've discussed, is I think a lot of reporters 22:27.010 --> 22:31.280 align:start would say that behind the scenes often she could actually be professional, polite, 22:31.280 --> 22:34.640 align:start courteous, and frankly, helpful in moments. 22:34.640 --> 22:39.980 align:start So there was that side of her that was not as public-facing and will not be her legacy. 22:39.980 --> 22:42.870 align:start EAMON JAVERS: A lot of the antagonism at the White House is for show, right? 22:42.870 --> 22:45.590 align:start A lot of the stuff that you see from the White House aides that we see on camera is, you 22:45.590 --> 22:48.700 align:start know, bluster and posturing, and very much for show. 22:48.700 --> 22:52.260 align:start And behind the scenes those same people are not that way all the time. 22:52.260 --> 22:54.460 align:start YAMICHE ALCINDOR: She was certainly personable. 22:54.460 --> 22:57.160 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But there's being personable behind the scenes, and then there is the 22:57.160 --> 23:00.560 align:start public face of the administration and how it handles the thorny questions it faces. 23:00.560 --> 23:02.930 align:start EAMON JAVERS: Yeah, absolutely. 23:02.930 --> 23:06.070 align:start And look, the discipline of having the White House press briefing is that the 23:06.070 --> 23:09.720 align:start administration itself has to check its facts because they have to anticipate what 23:09.720 --> 23:13.590 align:start questions are coming, go out into the bureaucracy, and get the answers, be aware of the 23:13.590 --> 23:17.890 align:start information themselves. It forces that daily discipline every day of knowing what you're 23:17.890 --> 23:21.190 align:start going to be criticized for or questioned about and making sure you have your facts straight. 23:21.190 --> 23:24.350 align:start PETER BAKER: It's accountability in a democratic system that a representative of the 23:24.350 --> 23:28.050 align:start most powerful person in the planet day in, day out has to take questions, whether they 23:28.050 --> 23:31.320 align:start want to or not, and if they choose not to answer fine but it's there on the record, on 23:31.320 --> 23:34.910 align:start camera for everybody to see. I think that's something that does have value, even 23:34.910 --> 23:37.870 align:start though the press briefings weren't the most informative under any president. 23:37.870 --> 23:39.930 align:start EAMON JAVERS: And it's not coming back in the Trump - 23:39.930 --> 23:42.780 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Her father is Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas, a populist 23:42.780 --> 23:45.900 align:start conservative. Does she run for governor in 2022? 23:45.900 --> 23:47.840 align:start PETER BAKER: Job's not open. (Laughter.) 23:47.840 --> 23:49.710 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Who has the reporting on this? 23:49.710 --> 23:52.400 align:start EAMON JAVERS: She's definitely going to run. She was asked yesterday - I was sitting 23:52.400 --> 23:55.080 align:start right there - whether she was going to run. She did not say no. 23:55.080 --> 23:56.710 align:start She said that she did not rule anything out in this life. 23:56.710 --> 23:58.520 align:start ROBERT COSTA: She did not say no. 23:58.520 --> 24:00.670 align:start EAMON JAVERS: And then she was asked if she had permutations about it and - 24:00.670 --> 24:03.820 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Sounds like a politician already - did not say no, being coy. We're going 24:03.820 --> 24:07.240 align:start to leave it there. Typical politician. Thanks, everybody. Up next on the Washington 24:07.240 --> 24:11.320 align:start Week Extra we will discuss the race for the Democratic nomination and who is breaking 24:11.320 --> 24:40.130 align:start out of the pack. I'm Robert Costa. Have a great weekend.