1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,430 ROBERT COSTA: Off the rails. The president declares a national emergency. I'm Robert Costa. 2 00:00:06,430 --> 00:00:12,350 Welcome to Washington Week. President Trump reluctantly accepts a bipartisan spending 3 00:00:12,350 --> 00:00:16,840 deal, then declares a national emergency to build at the border. 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,570 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) We're talking about an invasion of our county with 5 00:00:20,570 --> 00:00:26,100 drugs, with human traffickers, with all types of criminals and gangs. 6 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:31,070 ROBERT COSTA: Democrats and some Republicans accuse the president of sidestepping Congress. 7 00:00:31,070 --> 00:00:34,510 HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): (From video.) It's not an emergency, what's happening 8 00:00:34,510 --> 00:00:37,430 at the border. It's a humanitarian challenge to us. 9 00:00:37,430 --> 00:00:40,670 SENATOR SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): (From video.) I'm disappointed that the president has 10 00:00:40,670 --> 00:00:42,970 chosen to go this route. 11 00:00:42,970 --> 00:00:51,460 ROBERT COSTA: And a new attorney general is sworn in. And a former acting FBI director speaks out, next. 12 00:00:51,460 --> 00:01:01,520 ANNOUNCER: This is Washington Week. Once again, from Washington, moderator Robert Costa. 13 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,780 ROBERT COSTA: Good evening. 14 00:01:03,780 --> 00:01:09,560 President Trump averted another shutdown on Friday by unhappily accepting a bipartisan 15 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:15,170 deal to keep the government open, but he also sparked a political and legal firestorm by 16 00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:20,970 declaring a national emergency at the border despite top Republicans and Democrats urging 17 00:01:20,970 --> 00:01:25,430 him to hold off. The executive action will allow him to divert money from the Pentagon, 18 00:01:25,430 --> 00:01:28,410 Treasury, and other departments. 19 00:01:28,410 --> 00:01:33,910 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) We have certain funds that are being used at the 20 00:01:33,910 --> 00:01:38,710 discretion of generals, at the discretion of the military. Some of them haven't been 21 00:01:38,710 --> 00:01:43,200 allocated yet, and some of the generals think that this is more important. 22 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:48,260 ROBERT COSTA: The move comes after the president failed to get the 5.7 billion (dollars) 23 00:01:48,260 --> 00:01:53,170 he wanted. The deal, instead, is 1.375 billion (dollars). 24 00:01:53,170 --> 00:01:57,260 Joining me tonight, Julie Hirschfeld Davis, congressional correspondent for The New York 25 00:01:57,260 --> 00:02:03,360 Times; Garrett Haake, Washington correspondent for MSNBC; Abby Phillip, White House 26 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:09,350 correspondent for CNN; and John Bresnahan, Capitol bureau chief for POLITICO. 27 00:02:09,350 --> 00:02:14,430 When you think about that Rose Garden performance by the president today, Julie, we 28 00:02:14,430 --> 00:02:19,310 heard the president making the case for a national emergency at the border, a crisis, but 29 00:02:19,310 --> 00:02:22,540 is there a crisis at the border? 30 00:02:22,540 --> 00:02:25,390 JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: There's no real crisis at the border. 31 00:02:25,390 --> 00:02:28,200 There are a lot of challenges at the border. 32 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,160 Border crossings - illegal border crossings are actually down, historically speaking. 33 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:37,120 The number of families showing up, though, rather than single usually men in the past, 34 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,640 has gone up a lot, and that's why there is a humanitarian challenge. 35 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:44,690 You have a lot of people showing up asking for asylum, saying they're fleeing violence 36 00:02:44,690 --> 00:02:49,920 and persecution. There's obviously a drug problem. You know, there was just a huge drug bust. 37 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:53,860 There's a lot of drug trafficking problems at the border and of course there are human 38 00:02:53,860 --> 00:02:57,360 trafficking problems as well, all of the things the president talks about. 39 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:03,030 But there is not now a crisis that didn't exist last year or two years ago or even five 40 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:06,800 years before that. There are a lot of challenges at the border, but there's no invasion 41 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,440 in the way that the president likes to talk about it. 42 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,700 And so he even alluded to this in the Rose Garden today, saying he didn't have to do this 43 00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:18,010 right now. He's just doing this so that he can build a wall faster, he says. 44 00:03:18,010 --> 00:03:22,420 The fact is that there is no urgent issue that he is trying to address. 45 00:03:22,420 --> 00:03:25,570 ROBERT COSTA: Let's hear what the president said about that, his case today about what 46 00:03:25,570 --> 00:03:27,840 Julie just said. 47 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,980 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) I could do the wall over a longer period of time. 48 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:36,450 I didn't need to do this, but I'd rather do it much faster. And I don't have to do it 49 00:03:36,450 --> 00:03:41,560 for the election; I've already done a lot of wall for the election, 2020. 50 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,370 ROBERT COSTA: Abby, does this hurt the president's case if it goes to court, as he 51 00:03:45,370 --> 00:03:47,610 expects it to go? 52 00:03:47,610 --> 00:03:51,060 ABBY PHILLIP: Well, it's certainly a politically damaging admission that he didn't 53 00:03:51,060 --> 00:03:55,380 really have to do this, he decided to do it because he, at least in this part of the 54 00:03:55,380 --> 00:03:59,000 press conference, said that it would allow him to build the wall faster, but then he 55 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,170 later acknowledged that perhaps court challenges would hold it up. 56 00:04:03,170 --> 00:04:05,820 But I think legally there are a couple of questions. 57 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:10,360 It could be that the courts might try to weigh this issue of a national emergency: Does 58 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,930 it justify what the president is trying to do? 59 00:04:13,930 --> 00:04:17,530 Or they could simply look at the issue of the separation of powers. 60 00:04:17,530 --> 00:04:21,450 The president is taking the power of the purse away from Congress in this particular 61 00:04:21,450 --> 00:04:25,820 instance, and he just admitted today that he's doing it just for expediency, perhaps for 62 00:04:25,820 --> 00:04:28,120 political expediency. 63 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,030 I think that's very problematic for the president, and it's just another example - just 64 00:04:32,030 --> 00:04:36,260 like with the travel ban years ago - of the president making public statements that later 65 00:04:36,260 --> 00:04:41,640 on come up front and center in court cases that undermine his administration's strategy. 66 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,120 ROBERT COSTA: And if you look at history, the Supreme Court before has looked at 67 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,410 presidential executive orders - Harry Truman in 1952, Bill Clinton in 1995 - and ruled 68 00:04:50,410 --> 00:04:55,170 them invalid, but most national emergencies have stood. But beyond the courts, John, 69 00:04:55,170 --> 00:04:58,610 you have a president who's going to be challenged by House Democrats. 70 00:04:58,610 --> 00:05:02,330 What are we hearing from Speaker Pelosi, her lieutenants the committee chairmen, about 71 00:05:02,330 --> 00:05:05,350 how they're going to go after this national emergency? 72 00:05:05,350 --> 00:05:08,450 JOHN BRESNAHAN: They're going to move a joint resolution which to turn off the 73 00:05:08,450 --> 00:05:13,390 emergency, to invalidate it, and that will happen pretty quickly after they return from 74 00:05:13,390 --> 00:05:16,850 recess. They're going to recess for a week, they'll come back, they'll move pretty 75 00:05:16,850 --> 00:05:21,450 quickly on it. It's a straight-majority vote. They'll get plenty of Democrats to pass it. 76 00:05:21,450 --> 00:05:26,380 There may even be some Republicans who vote for it. Justin Amash, who's a noted 77 00:05:26,380 --> 00:05:30,390 libertarian/Republican, he just said he didn't like what Trump did. 78 00:05:30,390 --> 00:05:33,200 The question really becomes the Senate. 79 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,340 This is a resolution that's privileged, is the term; it has to be taken up in the Senate 80 00:05:37,340 --> 00:05:42,020 within 18 calendar days of after it passes the House, and then that becomes a challenge 81 00:05:42,020 --> 00:05:46,570 for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and the White House: Will Republicans bolt 82 00:05:46,570 --> 00:05:51,470 from Trump and vote with the Democrats to say you've gone too far on this one? 83 00:05:51,470 --> 00:05:54,910 And that's - it's going to be really close. It's going to be - it's going to be an 84 00:05:54,910 --> 00:05:58,520 interesting issue. Now, if it passes the Senate, they get a majority, the president 85 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,450 can veto it; there's no way they're going to override the president. 86 00:06:01,450 --> 00:06:05,080 But his own - enough members of his own party will have broken with him and it'll be - 87 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,660 it'll be a big political issue for him. 88 00:06:07,660 --> 00:06:10,990 ROBERT COSTA: So pushback in the courts, we have pushback from Democrats. 89 00:06:10,990 --> 00:06:14,570 You have to wonder, is there going to be pushback among people within the administration, 90 00:06:14,570 --> 00:06:18,840 at the Pentagon? Let's talk about the specifics for a moment. The spending deal, as we 91 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:24,170 said, includes 1.375 billion (dollars). That's for 55 miles of new barriers along the 92 00:06:24,170 --> 00:06:30,460 1,900-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Democrats made sure those barriers will not be massive 93 00:06:30,460 --> 00:06:35,630 concrete walls, as Mr. Trump once promised. It also includes provisions for border security 94 00:06:35,630 --> 00:06:39,540 such as new technology, the hiring of new immigration judges, and money for humanitarian 95 00:06:39,540 --> 00:06:43,980 aid. According to The Washington Post, the Trump administration through its emergency 96 00:06:43,980 --> 00:06:49,420 declaration is also eyeing billions elsewhere in the federal budget for border barriers 97 00:06:49,420 --> 00:06:53,830 such as 600 million (dollars) in a Treasury Department account dealing with seized drugs, 98 00:06:53,830 --> 00:06:58,300 and 2.5 billion (dollars) from a related Pentagon program, and more than 3 billion 99 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:01,130 (dollars) from other military construction projects. 100 00:07:01,130 --> 00:07:03,700 Garrett, you track this all closely on Capitol Hill. 101 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:07,610 Will there be any kind of counter inside of the administration about the use of these 102 00:07:07,610 --> 00:07:11,860 funds, whether it's from committee chairmen who want to appropriate and make the 103 00:07:11,860 --> 00:07:14,960 decisions on their own or from Cabinet secretaries? 104 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,100 GARRETT HAAKE: This was a day when I think Washington really missed having John McCain 105 00:07:18,100 --> 00:07:21,920 around. I cannot imagine how mad he would have been, the guy who was a champion of regular order 106 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,070 and of military appropriations, both of these issues - I can just imagine him screaming 107 00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:29,330 in the hallways about this. But yeah, the White House now has two problems. 108 00:07:29,330 --> 00:07:31,730 First of all, they're going to have to fight this in public. 109 00:07:31,730 --> 00:07:34,980 The president said in that news conference that he had talked to generals whose money he 110 00:07:34,980 --> 00:07:38,190 was going to be taking away and they said don't worry about it, we'd much rather have 111 00:07:38,190 --> 00:07:40,650 this money go to the wall; really? 112 00:07:40,650 --> 00:07:43,870 There will be plenty of Democratic committee chairmen who'd like to find those generals 113 00:07:43,870 --> 00:07:46,920 and bring them down to Capitol Hill and make them talk about it, so there will be a 114 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,210 public part of this. And then privately this also makes the president's job much more 115 00:07:50,210 --> 00:07:53,110 difficult when he goes for a new Pentagon budget next year. 116 00:07:53,110 --> 00:07:56,720 Appropriators take their jobs very seriously; the last thing they want to hear is that 117 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,640 their money which they dole out very specifically was just given away to someone else. 118 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,750 How do you make the argument that you need X amount of dollars for Treasury or for a drug 119 00:08:04,750 --> 00:08:08,220 program or for the Pentagon if the president's just going to move it around? 120 00:08:08,220 --> 00:08:12,250 So there will be pushback publicly on the front end and then quietly, I think, in the 121 00:08:12,250 --> 00:08:16,010 next round of appropriations to make sure that the president understands that even these 122 00:08:16,010 --> 00:08:19,310 kind of actions will have longer-term consequences than he thought about. 123 00:08:19,310 --> 00:08:22,760 ROBERT COSTA: I saw, real quickly, Garrett, that California and the governor there, 124 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,110 Gavin Newsom, already planning a lawsuit. Where is this 55 miles of barrier? 125 00:08:27,110 --> 00:08:29,660 Where is it actually going to be built? 126 00:08:29,660 --> 00:08:31,990 GARRETT HAAKE: The barrier that was approved in the spending bill is actually supposed 127 00:08:31,990 --> 00:08:35,100 to go in Texas, in the Rio Grande Valley. This is one of the areas where the Border 128 00:08:35,100 --> 00:08:38,680 Patrol has said that they actually need - they actually need additional fencing. 129 00:08:38,680 --> 00:08:42,600 Democrats really pushed Republicans in the process of the - of the conference committee 130 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,680 here to have an evidence-based approach to this. And this is where they agreed it was. 131 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:50,540 But even in that bill, it's interesting, they - Democrats made very clear, it has to be 132 00:08:50,540 --> 00:08:54,510 the existing types of fencing that already exist. It can't be a concrete wall. 133 00:08:54,510 --> 00:08:59,550 And they specifically listed off pieces of the border in Texas where wall cannot go. 134 00:08:59,550 --> 00:09:03,570 So if the president uses this emergency declaration to try to build in any of those 135 00:09:03,570 --> 00:09:07,630 places, he introduces a whole other host of problems. The other thing about it being in 136 00:09:07,630 --> 00:09:11,780 Texas, you've got a Republican governor and a Republican attorney general. So you're less 137 00:09:11,780 --> 00:09:15,580 likely to have the state file suit than you would if you tried to build this in California. 138 00:09:15,580 --> 00:09:19,620 ROBERT COSTA: You know that T.S. Eliot poem, "The Hollow Men," "This is the way the 139 00:09:19,620 --> 00:09:24,200 world ends, not with a bang but a whimper"? You got to think about Leader McConnell 140 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:29,390 making the news this week about how this will all end. And it was this low-key statement 141 00:09:29,390 --> 00:09:32,960 on the Senate floor. I think we have it, if we can show it to you for a second. 142 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,230 SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): (From video.) I would say to all my 143 00:09:36,230 --> 00:09:39,850 colleagues, as indicated, he's prepared to sign the bill. He will also be issuing a 144 00:09:39,850 --> 00:09:44,610 national emergency declaration at the same time. And I've indicated to him that I'm 145 00:09:44,610 --> 00:09:49,930 going to prepare - I'm going to support the national emergency declaration. 146 00:09:49,930 --> 00:09:52,980 ROBERT COSTA: That dry statement from Leader McConnell. 147 00:09:52,980 --> 00:09:57,070 So much power in Washington, but little enthusiasm for the way this all played out. 148 00:09:57,070 --> 00:10:02,080 What was his role here in coming around and supporting the national emergency, something 149 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,500 he detests ideologically? 150 00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:08,550 ABBY PHILLIP: Right, absolutely zero enthusiasm. (Laughter.) And it masked hours of 151 00:10:08,550 --> 00:10:13,900 drama, really, when it came to President Trump, getting him on board with this bill. 152 00:10:13,900 --> 00:10:18,340 I mean, the president - even though he is not one for details, decided to dig into this 153 00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:24,620 bill around midday on Thursday. And that was just hours before McConnell had expected 154 00:10:24,620 --> 00:10:29,000 to have a vote on this. He had to get on the phone with President Trump multiple times, 155 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,180 The Washington Post reported. And CNN also reported that the president had told his 156 00:10:33,180 --> 00:10:37,500 aides: I don't want to sign this thing. McConnell basically had to drop his opposition 157 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:41,960 to a national emergency, which is a really big deal for him, because he's opening himself 158 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,710 up to forcing his members basically to take a painful vote, as John just mentioned. 159 00:10:47,710 --> 00:10:51,650 This resolution of disapproval is not going to be a great thing for a lot of Republican 160 00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:55,980 senators who are going to be forced to basically cast a vote saying: I disagree with the 161 00:10:55,980 --> 00:11:00,180 president's decision to build this wall on executive authority. And McConnell had to do 162 00:11:00,180 --> 00:11:04,210 that in order to get his signature on this bill. It just goes to show no one 163 00:11:04,210 --> 00:11:07,540 wanted a shutdown, and no one wanted a shutdown more than Mitch McConnell. 164 00:11:07,540 --> 00:11:11,340 JOHN BRESNAHAN: The other part about this is - and Abby was just talking about it - is, 165 00:11:11,340 --> 00:11:14,820 you know, White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. There was - you know, he was talking 166 00:11:14,820 --> 00:11:18,690 to McConnell. He was talking to House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy. He was calling 167 00:11:18,690 --> 00:11:23,600 people on Thursday saying: We need a CR. We need to - we need to slow this down. 168 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,420 We need a couple weeks. 169 00:11:25,420 --> 00:11:28,160 ROBERT COSTA: You mean a bill that wouldn't appropriate across the government, just to 170 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,770 keep the government open at current levels. 171 00:11:30,770 --> 00:11:33,840 JOHN BRESNAHAN: Right, to avoid a shutdown. And McConnell and McCarthy were like, no. 172 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:39,040 (Laughter.) We're doing this now. We got to go now, OK? And then - I mean, the reality 173 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:44,590 here is Trump boxed himself in. He boxed himself in - you know, he - and I've kept saying 174 00:11:44,590 --> 00:11:49,190 this - he lost this wall fight, you know, in Congress, on Capitol Hill, he lost it on 175 00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:54,520 election day, OK? And it's been just a slow-motion death, OK? I mean, he's lost this for 176 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,770 months. You know, as everybody's mentioned, he couldn't get it through Congress. 177 00:11:58,770 --> 00:12:02,970 Now he did a national emergency. He actually, though - in a way he got Congress out 178 00:12:02,970 --> 00:12:07,700 of this jam. We have been stuck on this for, you know, two and a half months now. 179 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:12,730 And, like, you know, there was actually some sighs of relief. Yeah, we hate this but, 180 00:12:12,730 --> 00:12:15,490 you know, at least we can start talking about something else for a little while. 181 00:12:15,490 --> 00:12:19,100 GARRETT HAAKE: Hearing that from McConnell there again, he delivered it so dryly, but he 182 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:22,930 also called the vote, I think, 25 minutes later. It was like he got off the phone with the 183 00:12:22,930 --> 00:12:26,330 president and said: We're voting right now before anybody has a chance to change their mind. 184 00:12:26,330 --> 00:12:29,570 JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: Right. And he had to interrupt another Republican senator to do that. 185 00:12:29,570 --> 00:12:34,000 And the reason he did is because he did not want to give one extra second for Trump to 186 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,350 change his mind, which he has repeatedly done in this - in this back and forth, really 187 00:12:38,350 --> 00:12:43,520 since 2017, since he first came in. I mean, from that first time that he, you know, 188 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,010 threatened to veto that omnibus bill that didn't have money for the border wall. 189 00:12:47,010 --> 00:12:50,430 And he - and, you know, Republican leaders, again, had to rush down to the White House 190 00:12:50,430 --> 00:12:54,630 and try to talk him out of it. And the fact that he had been so backed into a corner, 191 00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:58,830 I think, really put the Hill on edge that if - you know, if they had a yes from him 192 00:12:58,830 --> 00:13:01,200 now, they had to strike while the iron was hot. 193 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,960 ROBERT COSTA: And John mentioned how the White House was almost outside of the process 194 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,520 here. You had Appropriations Chairman Richard Shelby in the Senate, Nita Lowey 195 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,760 from New York, House Democrat, they cut this deal. 196 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,020 JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: They absolutely cut this deal. 197 00:13:13,020 --> 00:13:17,360 And the interesting thing there is that in the beginning, when Trump was first sworn in, 198 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,930 when he first came in, that is how they were doing these appropriations bills. 199 00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:25,160 He was essentially, you know, keeping it at arm's length. He wasn't into the details. 200 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,350 He didn't really get how it worked. And they were cutting their deals and bringing them 201 00:13:28,350 --> 00:13:32,130 to the president. And repeatedly they did not have money for the border wall, and he 202 00:13:32,130 --> 00:13:37,980 swallowed it. And finally, he tried to exert himself. He tried to figure out a way to reclaim 203 00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:43,200 this - the power in this struggle over money and the wall. And he couldn't figure out a way 204 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,610 to do it. And so in the end, he had to give them the power back so they could cut the deal. 205 00:13:46,610 --> 00:13:48,840 ROBERT COSTA: You were down in El Paso, Texas. 206 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,220 The president had a political rally there, 2020 reelection campaign. 207 00:13:52,220 --> 00:13:55,610 This issue isn't going away, because if you looked up at the rafters at that rally there 208 00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:59,090 was a big banner, "Finish the wall." Is that the new message out of this White House? 209 00:13:59,090 --> 00:14:02,610 Is that the message on immigration? And is that the core of the reelect? 210 00:14:02,610 --> 00:14:05,280 GARRETT HAAKE: Absolutely. I mean, it's possible that it matters less to this 211 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,020 president whether he does this than whether he can continue to run on it. 212 00:14:08,020 --> 00:14:10,570 It was such a good issue for him in 2016. 213 00:14:10,570 --> 00:14:14,800 Even if not another foot of wall is built, the 2020 reelection message can be: Look at 214 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,140 how hard I fought for this and look at these activist courts and these obstructionist 215 00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:23,120 Democrats who are getting in the way. Vote for me. And, oh by the way, keep voting for 216 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,500 Republicans so we can get this done. He very much wants to continue to make this an issue. 217 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:32,190 Of any city in the country, El Paso, Texas is actually a pretty Democratic city. 218 00:14:32,190 --> 00:14:35,040 He's trying so hard to make this point. 219 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,770 At this point, it doesn't appear that he's convincing that many people, but in another 220 00:14:38,770 --> 00:14:41,660 presidential election I think we'll hear this over, and over, and over again. 221 00:14:41,660 --> 00:14:44,300 ABBY PHILLIP: He also very much needs to run on the wall. 222 00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:48,600 If you remember back at the midterms, the president pivoted heavily to immigration, to 223 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,870 the caravan, because the economic message wasn't breaking through. 224 00:14:51,870 --> 00:14:54,480 It wasn't getting Republican voters out to the polls. 225 00:14:54,480 --> 00:15:00,040 He had to pivot strongly, in his view, to these sort of bedrock issues that he ran on, in 226 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,960 order to try to help the few Republican candidates he could, in places like Florida and 227 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,220 elsewhere. And I think he's doing that again with his reelect. You hear the 228 00:15:08,220 --> 00:15:12,520 administration talking a lot about wanting to run on the economy, but they're really not 229 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,490 running on the economy. They're running on the wall and they're running on immigration. 230 00:15:16,490 --> 00:15:19,340 GARRETT HAAKE: When was the last time you heard anybody talk about the tax cut? 231 00:15:19,340 --> 00:15:23,420 ROBERT COSTA: But what about the cost? So the president's rousing his core voters, 232 00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:27,230 the right-wing likes that he's fighting for the wall. But what about Republicans on 233 00:15:27,230 --> 00:15:31,750 Capitol Hill? When you're up there, John, do they seem exhausted by all this - the 234 00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:35,220 shutdowns, the standoffs, the constant on immigration? 235 00:15:35,220 --> 00:15:39,020 JOHN BRESNAHAN: The shutdown was a disaster for Republicans. There's no way around it. 236 00:15:39,020 --> 00:15:42,090 It was a disaster for Trump. It was a disaster for the whole party. 237 00:15:42,090 --> 00:15:46,310 I think they really kind of - yeah, they - like I said, they hated the emergency, but 238 00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:48,980 they were, like, thank God this is over, at least for now. 239 00:15:48,980 --> 00:15:53,080 Let's let the courts decide this. I think they want to move on. They want to attack - 240 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,140 ROBERT COSTA: To what - prescription drugs, infrastructure? 241 00:15:56,140 --> 00:15:58,910 JOHN BRESNAHAN: Well, they - well, in the Senate they're going to move on to abortion 242 00:15:58,910 --> 00:16:01,970 right now, because they want to talk about the Virginia abortion bill, and that was a 243 00:16:01,970 --> 00:16:05,270 disaster. And they want to - you know, and they want to go slam the Green New Deal 244 00:16:05,270 --> 00:16:09,560 and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and all these new Democrats. They want to go paint them 245 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,450 as radicals - socialists who are going to, you know, destroy capitalism. 246 00:16:14,450 --> 00:16:18,110 And so they want to - you know, they want to talk about something else. 247 00:16:18,110 --> 00:16:22,020 They need to move off this. So, I mean, for now, this gets them out of the box. 248 00:16:22,020 --> 00:16:24,400 GARRETT HAAKE: That's part of the reason you had Lindsey Graham over the last couple 249 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,220 weeks going - every time he'd get in front of a television camera saying: Mr. 250 00:16:27,220 --> 00:16:30,140 President, if you think this is an emergency, go ahead and declare it. 251 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:33,370 Daring the president to take this step, so they could just move on. 252 00:16:33,370 --> 00:16:37,160 There was no will to fight over this, especially among Senate Republicans who wanted to 253 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,010 talk about literally anything else over the last few weeks. 254 00:16:40,010 --> 00:16:43,330 JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: Right. I mean, the interesting thing is that, you know, 255 00:16:43,330 --> 00:16:47,510 the wall is not a huge priority for pretty much anyone other than President 256 00:16:47,510 --> 00:16:50,450 Trump - certainly not many Republicans in Congress. 257 00:16:50,450 --> 00:16:54,670 Sure, if you ask them, are you for it or are you against it, most of - most Republicans 258 00:16:54,670 --> 00:16:57,340 would say they're for it. They think it's part of the solution. 259 00:16:57,340 --> 00:17:01,640 But you don't - I mean, there are very, very few lawmakers on Capitol Hill who see this 260 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,990 as the be-all, end-all, even of dealing with immigration and dealing with illegal 261 00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:10,280 immigration. They think that there are much more impactful ways of dealing with it. 262 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,920 And if they had their druthers, to write a bill, the wall wouldn't be anywhere near the 263 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,580 top of the priority list. So this is the president's fight. 264 00:17:16,580 --> 00:17:18,950 And I think they're happy to move off of it. 265 00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:21,300 ROBERT COSTA: Especially these moderate Republicans I was encountering on the Hill. 266 00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:24,310 They want to move on so fast from this shutdown, and immigration. 267 00:17:24,310 --> 00:17:27,090 They want to talk about the tax cut and other things. 268 00:17:27,090 --> 00:17:30,860 But what happened with the shutdown standoff, the aversion of another shutdown, wasn't 269 00:17:30,860 --> 00:17:34,650 the only story in Washington this week. The big story - another one - another 270 00:17:34,650 --> 00:17:39,130 headline was the confirmation of William Barr to be the 85th attorney general. 271 00:17:39,130 --> 00:17:43,790 Barr assumes leadership of a Justice Department handling multiple criminal investigations 272 00:17:43,790 --> 00:17:48,820 that have shadowed President Trump's administration. Barr was confirmed despite concerns 273 00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:53,810 from some Democrats about how he planned to oversee Special Counsel Robert Mueller's probe. 274 00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:58,730 We saw some Democrats break away for that Mueller reason. Did they get any clarity during 275 00:17:58,730 --> 00:18:02,860 the confirmation process, or is Barr for many Democrats, John, still a questionable figure? 276 00:18:02,860 --> 00:18:05,420 JOHN BRESNAHAN: Well, they don't know what he's going to do on Mueller. 277 00:18:05,420 --> 00:18:09,100 I mean, they - I think they're - and only three of them voted for him. 278 00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:14,130 So I think they're hopeful that he - here is somebody who has a long history with the 279 00:18:14,130 --> 00:18:19,770 Justice Department. Was - worked with Mueller, has a close relationship with Mueller. 280 00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:23,820 So has enormous respect for Mueller, at least expressed publicly, and the Justice 281 00:18:23,820 --> 00:18:29,090 Department. But I think - I mean, you see - I mean, you saw Trump today. He was, you know, 282 00:18:29,090 --> 00:18:32,590 talking about Mueller - or Barr has the, you know, toughest job in Washington, you know. 283 00:18:32,590 --> 00:18:35,880 ROBERT COSTA: Didn't he say to Barr: "Enjoy your life"? (Laughter.) Enjoy your life. 284 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,540 Quite a message from the president of the United States. 285 00:18:38,540 --> 00:18:41,280 JOHN BRESNAHAN: So it was - which is - yeah, to your attorney general. 286 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,560 So I think they're hoping - but they didn't get any commitment from Barr that they would 287 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,900 release the Mueller report or anything like that. 288 00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:51,170 I think they're hoping Barr does the right thing, but there's - you know, they have to see 289 00:18:51,170 --> 00:18:56,020 this is a guy who clearly didn't support how far Mueller has gone. 290 00:18:56,020 --> 00:18:59,910 There was the memo that he sent saying, you know, the whole obstruction of justice charge 291 00:18:59,910 --> 00:19:02,320 wasn't going anywhere. So, I mean, we'll see what happens. 292 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,760 ROBERT COSTA: And another big part of Barr is whether he's going to change the culture 293 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,090 at the Department of Justice, and this week we saw part of that culture that's been that 294 00:19:08,090 --> 00:19:10,050 clash with President Trump. 295 00:19:10,050 --> 00:19:14,090 Former acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe made headlines when he told CBS News that he 296 00:19:14,090 --> 00:19:17,980 opened an obstruction probe of the president the day after FBI Director James Comey was 297 00:19:17,980 --> 00:19:22,400 fired. McCabe also spoke about alleged discussions inside the FBI about invoking 298 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,530 the 25th Amendment to remove the president from office. 299 00:19:26,530 --> 00:19:32,310 Does Barr change this acrimonious relationship between DOJ and President Trump? 300 00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:35,580 GARRETT HAAKE: I think everybody on Capitol Hill certainly hopes so. 301 00:19:35,580 --> 00:19:38,630 I mean, Barr is an institutionalist. That's the one thing he brings to this. 302 00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:42,000 Democrats weren't satisfied with his answers in his confirmation hearing, but at least 303 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,190 he's from a generation of folks who appreciate what the Justice Department does and he 304 00:19:46,190 --> 00:19:50,550 might be able to improve that relationship because he gets how this is supposed to work. 305 00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:53,490 But wasn't Christopher Wray supposed to do that with the FBI? 306 00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:57,170 I don't know that he's improved the relationship between that department and the White 307 00:19:57,170 --> 00:19:59,970 House any more - you know, having - the president having his own person there hasn't 308 00:19:59,970 --> 00:20:03,100 really made a big difference. The president is essentially running against 309 00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:06,300 individuals in these departments, and I don't know if that's going to change. 310 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,620 ROBERT COSTA: Julie, when you think about McCabe, the significance of it, I just want to 311 00:20:09,620 --> 00:20:12,690 note that the Department of Justice issued a statement about McCabe's interview with 60 312 00:20:12,690 --> 00:20:16,230 Minutes saying Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein rejects Mr. 313 00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:20,590 McCabe's characterizations of events as inaccurate and factually incorrect. 314 00:20:20,590 --> 00:20:24,140 The statement goes on to say the DOJ's Inspector General found Mr. 315 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:28,740 McCabe did not tell the truth to - did not tell the truth to federal authorities on 316 00:20:28,740 --> 00:20:33,160 multiple occasions, so he's someone who has a debatable reputation inside of political 317 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,130 circles. What's the significance of him coming out with this book challenging the 318 00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:40,730 president, bringing back that idea of discussions of the 25th Amendment? 319 00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:44,660 JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: Well, I think it sort of confirms again, even though he does 320 00:20:44,660 --> 00:20:50,670 have credibility issues, just the degree to which the government - that Trump's own 321 00:20:50,670 --> 00:20:55,510 government was fearful about what the new president might do. 322 00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:59,370 I mean, he tells this story, and we reported some of it last year, of course. 323 00:20:59,370 --> 00:21:02,520 Rod Rosenstein pushed back when we reported it then as well. 324 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,770 But, you know, after the president fires Comey, McCabe is worried that, you know - not 325 00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:13,760 just, I think, about his own career, but that this investigation is going to be somehow 326 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,600 quashed, that the president is going to take actions to essentially reach in in a way 327 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,570 that he shouldn't be reaching in and stop the Russia investigation, and so he takes these 328 00:21:21,570 --> 00:21:28,030 steps and they're talking actively in his telling about potentially removing the president. 329 00:21:28,030 --> 00:21:33,010 The thing that's so interesting to me about this is that it really shows how Trump's 330 00:21:33,010 --> 00:21:37,550 paranoia and suspicion about the deep state and all of the elements within his government 331 00:21:37,550 --> 00:21:41,490 who were trying to push back against him essentially created the very dynamic that he was 332 00:21:41,490 --> 00:21:46,890 afraid of. So you have McCabe at the FBI looking at what the president is doing and saying, 333 00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:50,960 oh my gosh, he's shattering all of these norms, we have to protect the institution. 334 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,380 And you have the president sitting in the White House saying the government is trying to 335 00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:57,560 undermine me and undercut me. They're both sort of right, right? And I think, you 336 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,530 know, just the book coming out just kind of reanimates that whole discussion. 337 00:22:01,530 --> 00:22:05,630 ABBY PHILLIP: But it does sort of highlight that the problem here, the central problem 338 00:22:05,630 --> 00:22:09,080 that maybe ties together Bill Barr and Andrew McCabe, is President Trump. 339 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,340 The problem for the attorney general, the deputy attorney general, the head of the DOJ, 340 00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:17,450 whoever it is, is that the president wants to have his hands in a lot of things that he 341 00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:21,370 probably shouldn't have his hands in, and that's a real challenge for people who work under 342 00:22:21,370 --> 00:22:26,850 him. One of the things that really caused Andrew McCabe to have a lot of consternation 343 00:22:26,850 --> 00:22:30,910 was President Trump calling him out of the blue and wanting to talk to him about 344 00:22:30,910 --> 00:22:36,240 investigations that he - he relays in the book that presidents are not supposed to have 345 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,860 those kinds of conversations with people leading investigations. 346 00:22:39,860 --> 00:22:43,850 So this is a constant theme that pretty much everybody who works in these jobs have 347 00:22:43,850 --> 00:22:47,880 reiterated repeatedly, and I don't think President Trump really has changed even though 348 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,500 the cast of characters around him have. 349 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:54,600 And I suspect that Bill Barr is going to find out very quickly that managing that is 350 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,450 going to be his biggest challenge and protecting his people from the president is also 351 00:22:59,450 --> 00:23:02,470 going to be the - a secondary challenge to that. 352 00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:05,320 ROBERT COSTA: Real quick, CNN also scooped today, talking about the people around the 353 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,280 president, that Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, met with Robert 354 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,030 Mueller. Bill Barr is going in there, overseeing the Mueller probe. 355 00:23:11,030 --> 00:23:13,730 It shows you there's just more and more turns with this Mueller probe. 356 00:23:13,730 --> 00:23:16,660 ABBY PHILLIP: Definitely, and that interview happened quite a while ago and we only 357 00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:20,890 learned about it really this week. So there are clearly a lot of people who have gone 358 00:23:20,890 --> 00:23:24,640 in to talk to Mueller and we don't know anything about it. More to come on that. 359 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,150 ROBERT COSTA: More to come. We'll leave it there. Thanks, everybody, for joining us 360 00:23:28,150 --> 00:23:32,110 here tonight. Our conversation will continue on the Washington Week Extra, and you will 361 00:23:32,110 --> 00:23:37,120 soon be able to watch it live. Starting next Friday we will stream the Extra on our 362 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:43,850 website, YouTube, and Facebook every Friday night starting at 8:30 p.m. Eastern. 363 00:23:43,850 --> 00:24:17,820 I'm Robert Costa. Have a great President's Day weekend.