WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:06.430 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Off the rails. The president declares a national emergency. I'm Robert Costa. 00:06.430 --> 00:12.350 align:start Welcome to Washington Week. President Trump reluctantly accepts a bipartisan spending 00:12.350 --> 00:16.840 align:start deal, then declares a national emergency to build at the border. 00:16.840 --> 00:20.570 align:start PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) We're talking about an invasion of our county with 00:20.570 --> 00:26.100 align:start drugs, with human traffickers, with all types of criminals and gangs. 00:26.100 --> 00:31.070 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Democrats and some Republicans accuse the president of sidestepping Congress. 00:31.070 --> 00:34.510 align:start HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): (From video.) It's not an emergency, what's happening 00:34.510 --> 00:37.430 align:start at the border. It's a humanitarian challenge to us. 00:37.430 --> 00:40.670 align:start SENATOR SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): (From video.) I'm disappointed that the president has 00:40.670 --> 00:42.970 align:start chosen to go this route. 00:42.970 --> 00:51.460 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And a new attorney general is sworn in. And a former acting FBI director speaks out, next. 00:51.460 --> 01:01.520 align:start ANNOUNCER: This is Washington Week. Once again, from Washington, moderator Robert Costa. 01:01.520 --> 01:03.780 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Good evening. 01:03.780 --> 01:09.560 align:start President Trump averted another shutdown on Friday by unhappily accepting a bipartisan 01:09.560 --> 01:15.170 align:start deal to keep the government open, but he also sparked a political and legal firestorm by 01:15.170 --> 01:20.970 align:start declaring a national emergency at the border despite top Republicans and Democrats urging 01:20.970 --> 01:25.430 align:start him to hold off. The executive action will allow him to divert money from the Pentagon, 01:25.430 --> 01:28.410 align:start Treasury, and other departments. 01:28.410 --> 01:33.910 align:start PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) We have certain funds that are being used at the 01:33.910 --> 01:38.710 align:start discretion of generals, at the discretion of the military. Some of them haven't been 01:38.710 --> 01:43.200 align:start allocated yet, and some of the generals think that this is more important. 01:43.200 --> 01:48.260 align:start ROBERT COSTA: The move comes after the president failed to get the 5.7 billion (dollars) 01:48.260 --> 01:53.170 align:start he wanted. The deal, instead, is 1.375 billion (dollars). 01:53.170 --> 01:57.260 align:start Joining me tonight, Julie Hirschfeld Davis, congressional correspondent for The New York 01:57.260 --> 02:03.360 align:start Times; Garrett Haake, Washington correspondent for MSNBC; Abby Phillip, White House 02:03.360 --> 02:09.350 align:start correspondent for CNN; and John Bresnahan, Capitol bureau chief for POLITICO. 02:09.350 --> 02:14.430 align:start When you think about that Rose Garden performance by the president today, Julie, we 02:14.430 --> 02:19.310 align:start heard the president making the case for a national emergency at the border, a crisis, but 02:19.310 --> 02:22.540 align:start is there a crisis at the border? 02:22.540 --> 02:25.390 align:start JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: There's no real crisis at the border. 02:25.390 --> 02:28.200 align:start There are a lot of challenges at the border. 02:28.200 --> 02:32.160 align:start Border crossings - illegal border crossings are actually down, historically speaking. 02:32.160 --> 02:37.120 align:start The number of families showing up, though, rather than single usually men in the past, 02:37.120 --> 02:40.640 align:start has gone up a lot, and that's why there is a humanitarian challenge. 02:40.640 --> 02:44.690 align:start You have a lot of people showing up asking for asylum, saying they're fleeing violence 02:44.690 --> 02:49.920 align:start and persecution. There's obviously a drug problem. You know, there was just a huge drug bust. 02:49.920 --> 02:53.860 align:start There's a lot of drug trafficking problems at the border and of course there are human 02:53.860 --> 02:57.360 align:start trafficking problems as well, all of the things the president talks about. 02:57.360 --> 03:03.030 align:start But there is not now a crisis that didn't exist last year or two years ago or even five 03:03.030 --> 03:06.800 align:start years before that. There are a lot of challenges at the border, but there's no invasion 03:06.800 --> 03:09.440 align:start in the way that the president likes to talk about it. 03:09.440 --> 03:13.700 align:start And so he even alluded to this in the Rose Garden today, saying he didn't have to do this 03:13.700 --> 03:18.010 align:start right now. He's just doing this so that he can build a wall faster, he says. 03:18.010 --> 03:22.420 align:start The fact is that there is no urgent issue that he is trying to address. 03:22.420 --> 03:25.570 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Let's hear what the president said about that, his case today about what 03:25.570 --> 03:27.840 align:start Julie just said. 03:27.840 --> 03:31.980 align:start PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) I could do the wall over a longer period of time. 03:31.980 --> 03:36.450 align:start I didn't need to do this, but I'd rather do it much faster. And I don't have to do it 03:36.450 --> 03:41.560 align:start for the election; I've already done a lot of wall for the election, 2020. 03:41.560 --> 03:45.370 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Abby, does this hurt the president's case if it goes to court, as he 03:45.370 --> 03:47.610 align:start expects it to go? 03:47.610 --> 03:51.060 align:start ABBY PHILLIP: Well, it's certainly a politically damaging admission that he didn't 03:51.060 --> 03:55.380 align:start really have to do this, he decided to do it because he, at least in this part of the 03:55.380 --> 03:59.000 align:start press conference, said that it would allow him to build the wall faster, but then he 03:59.000 --> 04:03.170 align:start later acknowledged that perhaps court challenges would hold it up. 04:03.170 --> 04:05.820 align:start But I think legally there are a couple of questions. 04:05.820 --> 04:10.360 align:start It could be that the courts might try to weigh this issue of a national emergency: Does 04:10.360 --> 04:13.930 align:start it justify what the president is trying to do? 04:13.930 --> 04:17.530 align:start Or they could simply look at the issue of the separation of powers. 04:17.530 --> 04:21.450 align:start The president is taking the power of the purse away from Congress in this particular 04:21.450 --> 04:25.820 align:start instance, and he just admitted today that he's doing it just for expediency, perhaps for 04:25.820 --> 04:28.120 align:start political expediency. 04:28.120 --> 04:32.030 align:start I think that's very problematic for the president, and it's just another example - just 04:32.030 --> 04:36.260 align:start like with the travel ban years ago - of the president making public statements that later 04:36.260 --> 04:41.640 align:start on come up front and center in court cases that undermine his administration's strategy. 04:41.640 --> 04:45.120 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And if you look at history, the Supreme Court before has looked at 04:45.120 --> 04:50.410 align:start presidential executive orders - Harry Truman in 1952, Bill Clinton in 1995 - and ruled 04:50.410 --> 04:55.170 align:start them invalid, but most national emergencies have stood. But beyond the courts, John, 04:55.170 --> 04:58.610 align:start you have a president who's going to be challenged by House Democrats. 04:58.610 --> 05:02.330 align:start What are we hearing from Speaker Pelosi, her lieutenants the committee chairmen, about 05:02.330 --> 05:05.350 align:start how they're going to go after this national emergency? 05:05.350 --> 05:08.450 align:start JOHN BRESNAHAN: They're going to move a joint resolution which to turn off the 05:08.450 --> 05:13.390 align:start emergency, to invalidate it, and that will happen pretty quickly after they return from 05:13.390 --> 05:16.850 align:start recess. They're going to recess for a week, they'll come back, they'll move pretty 05:16.850 --> 05:21.450 align:start quickly on it. It's a straight-majority vote. They'll get plenty of Democrats to pass it. 05:21.450 --> 05:26.380 align:start There may even be some Republicans who vote for it. Justin Amash, who's a noted 05:26.380 --> 05:30.390 align:start libertarian/Republican, he just said he didn't like what Trump did. 05:30.390 --> 05:33.200 align:start The question really becomes the Senate. 05:33.200 --> 05:37.340 align:start This is a resolution that's privileged, is the term; it has to be taken up in the Senate 05:37.340 --> 05:42.020 align:start within 18 calendar days of after it passes the House, and then that becomes a challenge 05:42.020 --> 05:46.570 align:start for Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and the White House: Will Republicans bolt 05:46.570 --> 05:51.470 align:start from Trump and vote with the Democrats to say you've gone too far on this one? 05:51.470 --> 05:54.910 align:start And that's - it's going to be really close. It's going to be - it's going to be an 05:54.910 --> 05:58.520 align:start interesting issue. Now, if it passes the Senate, they get a majority, the president 05:58.520 --> 06:01.450 align:start can veto it; there's no way they're going to override the president. 06:01.450 --> 06:05.080 align:start But his own - enough members of his own party will have broken with him and it'll be - 06:05.080 --> 06:07.660 align:start it'll be a big political issue for him. 06:07.660 --> 06:10.990 align:start ROBERT COSTA: So pushback in the courts, we have pushback from Democrats. 06:10.990 --> 06:14.570 align:start You have to wonder, is there going to be pushback among people within the administration, 06:14.570 --> 06:18.840 align:start at the Pentagon? Let's talk about the specifics for a moment. The spending deal, as we 06:18.840 --> 06:24.170 align:start said, includes 1.375 billion (dollars). That's for 55 miles of new barriers along the 06:24.170 --> 06:30.460 align:start 1,900-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Democrats made sure those barriers will not be massive 06:30.460 --> 06:35.630 align:start concrete walls, as Mr. Trump once promised. It also includes provisions for border security 06:35.630 --> 06:39.540 align:start such as new technology, the hiring of new immigration judges, and money for humanitarian 06:39.540 --> 06:43.980 align:start aid. According to The Washington Post, the Trump administration through its emergency 06:43.980 --> 06:49.420 align:start declaration is also eyeing billions elsewhere in the federal budget for border barriers 06:49.420 --> 06:53.830 align:start such as 600 million (dollars) in a Treasury Department account dealing with seized drugs, 06:53.830 --> 06:58.300 align:start and 2.5 billion (dollars) from a related Pentagon program, and more than 3 billion 06:58.300 --> 07:01.130 align:start (dollars) from other military construction projects. 07:01.130 --> 07:03.700 align:start Garrett, you track this all closely on Capitol Hill. 07:03.700 --> 07:07.610 align:start Will there be any kind of counter inside of the administration about the use of these 07:07.610 --> 07:11.860 align:start funds, whether it's from committee chairmen who want to appropriate and make the 07:11.860 --> 07:14.960 align:start decisions on their own or from Cabinet secretaries? 07:14.960 --> 07:18.100 align:start GARRETT HAAKE: This was a day when I think Washington really missed having John McCain 07:18.100 --> 07:21.920 align:start around. I cannot imagine how mad he would have been, the guy who was a champion of regular order 07:21.920 --> 07:26.070 align:start and of military appropriations, both of these issues - I can just imagine him screaming 07:26.070 --> 07:29.330 align:start in the hallways about this. But yeah, the White House now has two problems. 07:29.330 --> 07:31.730 align:start First of all, they're going to have to fight this in public. 07:31.730 --> 07:34.980 align:start The president said in that news conference that he had talked to generals whose money he 07:34.980 --> 07:38.190 align:start was going to be taking away and they said don't worry about it, we'd much rather have 07:38.190 --> 07:40.650 align:start this money go to the wall; really? 07:40.650 --> 07:43.870 align:start There will be plenty of Democratic committee chairmen who'd like to find those generals 07:43.870 --> 07:46.920 align:start and bring them down to Capitol Hill and make them talk about it, so there will be a 07:46.920 --> 07:50.210 align:start public part of this. And then privately this also makes the president's job much more 07:50.210 --> 07:53.110 align:start difficult when he goes for a new Pentagon budget next year. 07:53.110 --> 07:56.720 align:start Appropriators take their jobs very seriously; the last thing they want to hear is that 07:56.720 --> 08:00.640 align:start their money which they dole out very specifically was just given away to someone else. 08:00.640 --> 08:04.750 align:start How do you make the argument that you need X amount of dollars for Treasury or for a drug 08:04.750 --> 08:08.220 align:start program or for the Pentagon if the president's just going to move it around? 08:08.220 --> 08:12.250 align:start So there will be pushback publicly on the front end and then quietly, I think, in the 08:12.250 --> 08:16.010 align:start next round of appropriations to make sure that the president understands that even these 08:16.010 --> 08:19.310 align:start kind of actions will have longer-term consequences than he thought about. 08:19.310 --> 08:22.760 align:start ROBERT COSTA: I saw, real quickly, Garrett, that California and the governor there, 08:22.760 --> 08:27.110 align:start Gavin Newsom, already planning a lawsuit. Where is this 55 miles of barrier? 08:27.110 --> 08:29.660 align:start Where is it actually going to be built? 08:29.660 --> 08:31.990 align:start GARRETT HAAKE: The barrier that was approved in the spending bill is actually supposed 08:31.990 --> 08:35.100 align:start to go in Texas, in the Rio Grande Valley. This is one of the areas where the Border 08:35.100 --> 08:38.680 align:start Patrol has said that they actually need - they actually need additional fencing. 08:38.680 --> 08:42.600 align:start Democrats really pushed Republicans in the process of the - of the conference committee 08:42.600 --> 08:46.680 align:start here to have an evidence-based approach to this. And this is where they agreed it was. 08:46.680 --> 08:50.540 align:start But even in that bill, it's interesting, they - Democrats made very clear, it has to be 08:50.540 --> 08:54.510 align:start the existing types of fencing that already exist. It can't be a concrete wall. 08:54.510 --> 08:59.550 align:start And they specifically listed off pieces of the border in Texas where wall cannot go. 08:59.550 --> 09:03.570 align:start So if the president uses this emergency declaration to try to build in any of those 09:03.570 --> 09:07.630 align:start places, he introduces a whole other host of problems. The other thing about it being in 09:07.630 --> 09:11.780 align:start Texas, you've got a Republican governor and a Republican attorney general. So you're less 09:11.780 --> 09:15.580 align:start likely to have the state file suit than you would if you tried to build this in California. 09:15.580 --> 09:19.620 align:start ROBERT COSTA: You know that T.S. Eliot poem, "The Hollow Men," "This is the way the 09:19.620 --> 09:24.200 align:start world ends, not with a bang but a whimper"? You got to think about Leader McConnell 09:24.200 --> 09:29.390 align:start making the news this week about how this will all end. And it was this low-key statement 09:29.390 --> 09:32.960 align:start on the Senate floor. I think we have it, if we can show it to you for a second. 09:32.960 --> 09:36.230 align:start SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): (From video.) I would say to all my 09:36.230 --> 09:39.850 align:start colleagues, as indicated, he's prepared to sign the bill. He will also be issuing a 09:39.850 --> 09:44.610 align:start national emergency declaration at the same time. And I've indicated to him that I'm 09:44.610 --> 09:49.930 align:start going to prepare - I'm going to support the national emergency declaration. 09:49.930 --> 09:52.980 align:start ROBERT COSTA: That dry statement from Leader McConnell. 09:52.980 --> 09:57.070 align:start So much power in Washington, but little enthusiasm for the way this all played out. 09:57.070 --> 10:02.080 align:start What was his role here in coming around and supporting the national emergency, something 10:02.080 --> 10:04.500 align:start he detests ideologically? 10:04.500 --> 10:08.550 align:start ABBY PHILLIP: Right, absolutely zero enthusiasm. (Laughter.) And it masked hours of 10:08.550 --> 10:13.900 align:start drama, really, when it came to President Trump, getting him on board with this bill. 10:13.900 --> 10:18.340 align:start I mean, the president - even though he is not one for details, decided to dig into this 10:18.340 --> 10:24.620 align:start bill around midday on Thursday. And that was just hours before McConnell had expected 10:24.620 --> 10:29.000 align:start to have a vote on this. He had to get on the phone with President Trump multiple times, 10:29.000 --> 10:33.180 align:start The Washington Post reported. And CNN also reported that the president had told his 10:33.180 --> 10:37.500 align:start aides: I don't want to sign this thing. McConnell basically had to drop his opposition 10:37.500 --> 10:41.960 align:start to a national emergency, which is a really big deal for him, because he's opening himself 10:41.960 --> 10:47.710 align:start up to forcing his members basically to take a painful vote, as John just mentioned. 10:47.710 --> 10:51.650 align:start This resolution of disapproval is not going to be a great thing for a lot of Republican 10:51.650 --> 10:55.980 align:start senators who are going to be forced to basically cast a vote saying: I disagree with the 10:55.980 --> 11:00.180 align:start president's decision to build this wall on executive authority. And McConnell had to do 11:00.180 --> 11:04.210 align:start that in order to get his signature on this bill. It just goes to show no one 11:04.210 --> 11:07.540 align:start wanted a shutdown, and no one wanted a shutdown more than Mitch McConnell. 11:07.540 --> 11:11.340 align:start JOHN BRESNAHAN: The other part about this is - and Abby was just talking about it - is, 11:11.340 --> 11:14.820 align:start you know, White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. There was - you know, he was talking 11:14.820 --> 11:18.690 align:start to McConnell. He was talking to House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy. He was calling 11:18.690 --> 11:23.600 align:start people on Thursday saying: We need a CR. We need to - we need to slow this down. 11:23.600 --> 11:25.420 align:start We need a couple weeks. 11:25.420 --> 11:28.160 align:start ROBERT COSTA: You mean a bill that wouldn't appropriate across the government, just to 11:28.160 --> 11:30.770 align:start keep the government open at current levels. 11:30.770 --> 11:33.840 align:start JOHN BRESNAHAN: Right, to avoid a shutdown. And McConnell and McCarthy were like, no. 11:33.840 --> 11:39.040 align:start (Laughter.) We're doing this now. We got to go now, OK? And then - I mean, the reality 11:39.040 --> 11:44.590 align:start here is Trump boxed himself in. He boxed himself in - you know, he - and I've kept saying 11:44.590 --> 11:49.190 align:start this - he lost this wall fight, you know, in Congress, on Capitol Hill, he lost it on 11:49.190 --> 11:54.520 align:start election day, OK? And it's been just a slow-motion death, OK? I mean, he's lost this for 11:54.520 --> 11:58.770 align:start months. You know, as everybody's mentioned, he couldn't get it through Congress. 11:58.770 --> 12:02.970 align:start Now he did a national emergency. He actually, though - in a way he got Congress out 12:02.970 --> 12:07.700 align:start of this jam. We have been stuck on this for, you know, two and a half months now. 12:07.700 --> 12:12.730 align:start And, like, you know, there was actually some sighs of relief. Yeah, we hate this but, 12:12.730 --> 12:15.490 align:start you know, at least we can start talking about something else for a little while. 12:15.490 --> 12:19.100 align:start GARRETT HAAKE: Hearing that from McConnell there again, he delivered it so dryly, but he 12:19.100 --> 12:22.930 align:start also called the vote, I think, 25 minutes later. It was like he got off the phone with the 12:22.930 --> 12:26.330 align:start president and said: We're voting right now before anybody has a chance to change their mind. 12:26.330 --> 12:29.570 align:start JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: Right. And he had to interrupt another Republican senator to do that. 12:29.570 --> 12:34.000 align:start And the reason he did is because he did not want to give one extra second for Trump to 12:34.000 --> 12:38.350 align:start change his mind, which he has repeatedly done in this - in this back and forth, really 12:38.350 --> 12:43.520 align:start since 2017, since he first came in. I mean, from that first time that he, you know, 12:43.520 --> 12:47.010 align:start threatened to veto that omnibus bill that didn't have money for the border wall. 12:47.010 --> 12:50.430 align:start And he - and, you know, Republican leaders, again, had to rush down to the White House 12:50.430 --> 12:54.630 align:start and try to talk him out of it. And the fact that he had been so backed into a corner, 12:54.630 --> 12:58.830 align:start I think, really put the Hill on edge that if - you know, if they had a yes from him 12:58.830 --> 13:01.200 align:start now, they had to strike while the iron was hot. 13:01.200 --> 13:03.960 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And John mentioned how the White House was almost outside of the process 13:03.960 --> 13:07.520 align:start here. You had Appropriations Chairman Richard Shelby in the Senate, Nita Lowey 13:07.520 --> 13:10.760 align:start from New York, House Democrat, they cut this deal. 13:10.760 --> 13:13.020 align:start JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: They absolutely cut this deal. 13:13.020 --> 13:17.360 align:start And the interesting thing there is that in the beginning, when Trump was first sworn in, 13:17.360 --> 13:20.930 align:start when he first came in, that is how they were doing these appropriations bills. 13:20.930 --> 13:25.160 align:start He was essentially, you know, keeping it at arm's length. He wasn't into the details. 13:25.160 --> 13:28.350 align:start He didn't really get how it worked. And they were cutting their deals and bringing them 13:28.350 --> 13:32.130 align:start to the president. And repeatedly they did not have money for the border wall, and he 13:32.130 --> 13:37.980 align:start swallowed it. And finally, he tried to exert himself. He tried to figure out a way to reclaim 13:37.980 --> 13:43.200 align:start this - the power in this struggle over money and the wall. And he couldn't figure out a way 13:43.200 --> 13:46.610 align:start to do it. And so in the end, he had to give them the power back so they could cut the deal. 13:46.610 --> 13:48.840 align:start ROBERT COSTA: You were down in El Paso, Texas. 13:48.840 --> 13:52.220 align:start The president had a political rally there, 2020 reelection campaign. 13:52.220 --> 13:55.610 align:start This issue isn't going away, because if you looked up at the rafters at that rally there 13:55.610 --> 13:59.090 align:start was a big banner, "Finish the wall." Is that the new message out of this White House? 13:59.090 --> 14:02.610 align:start Is that the message on immigration? And is that the core of the reelect? 14:02.610 --> 14:05.280 align:start GARRETT HAAKE: Absolutely. I mean, it's possible that it matters less to this 14:05.280 --> 14:08.020 align:start president whether he does this than whether he can continue to run on it. 14:08.020 --> 14:10.570 align:start It was such a good issue for him in 2016. 14:10.570 --> 14:14.800 align:start Even if not another foot of wall is built, the 2020 reelection message can be: Look at 14:14.800 --> 14:19.140 align:start how hard I fought for this and look at these activist courts and these obstructionist 14:19.140 --> 14:23.120 align:start Democrats who are getting in the way. Vote for me. And, oh by the way, keep voting for 14:23.120 --> 14:27.500 align:start Republicans so we can get this done. He very much wants to continue to make this an issue. 14:27.500 --> 14:32.190 align:start Of any city in the country, El Paso, Texas is actually a pretty Democratic city. 14:32.190 --> 14:35.040 align:start He's trying so hard to make this point. 14:35.040 --> 14:38.770 align:start At this point, it doesn't appear that he's convincing that many people, but in another 14:38.770 --> 14:41.660 align:start presidential election I think we'll hear this over, and over, and over again. 14:41.660 --> 14:44.300 align:start ABBY PHILLIP: He also very much needs to run on the wall. 14:44.300 --> 14:48.600 align:start If you remember back at the midterms, the president pivoted heavily to immigration, to 14:48.600 --> 14:51.870 align:start the caravan, because the economic message wasn't breaking through. 14:51.870 --> 14:54.480 align:start It wasn't getting Republican voters out to the polls. 14:54.480 --> 15:00.040 align:start He had to pivot strongly, in his view, to these sort of bedrock issues that he ran on, in 15:00.040 --> 15:03.960 align:start order to try to help the few Republican candidates he could, in places like Florida and 15:03.960 --> 15:08.220 align:start elsewhere. And I think he's doing that again with his reelect. You hear the 15:08.220 --> 15:12.520 align:start administration talking a lot about wanting to run on the economy, but they're really not 15:12.520 --> 15:16.490 align:start running on the economy. They're running on the wall and they're running on immigration. 15:16.490 --> 15:19.340 align:start GARRETT HAAKE: When was the last time you heard anybody talk about the tax cut? 15:19.340 --> 15:23.420 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But what about the cost? So the president's rousing his core voters, 15:23.420 --> 15:27.230 align:start the right-wing likes that he's fighting for the wall. But what about Republicans on 15:27.230 --> 15:31.750 align:start Capitol Hill? When you're up there, John, do they seem exhausted by all this - the 15:31.750 --> 15:35.220 align:start shutdowns, the standoffs, the constant on immigration? 15:35.220 --> 15:39.020 align:start JOHN BRESNAHAN: The shutdown was a disaster for Republicans. There's no way around it. 15:39.020 --> 15:42.090 align:start It was a disaster for Trump. It was a disaster for the whole party. 15:42.090 --> 15:46.310 align:start I think they really kind of - yeah, they - like I said, they hated the emergency, but 15:46.310 --> 15:48.980 align:start they were, like, thank God this is over, at least for now. 15:48.980 --> 15:53.080 align:start Let's let the courts decide this. I think they want to move on. They want to attack - 15:53.080 --> 15:56.140 align:start ROBERT COSTA: To what - prescription drugs, infrastructure? 15:56.140 --> 15:58.910 align:start JOHN BRESNAHAN: Well, they - well, in the Senate they're going to move on to abortion 15:58.910 --> 16:01.970 align:start right now, because they want to talk about the Virginia abortion bill, and that was a 16:01.970 --> 16:05.270 align:start disaster. And they want to - you know, and they want to go slam the Green New Deal 16:05.270 --> 16:09.560 align:start and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and all these new Democrats. They want to go paint them 16:09.560 --> 16:14.450 align:start as radicals - socialists who are going to, you know, destroy capitalism. 16:14.450 --> 16:18.110 align:start And so they want to - you know, they want to talk about something else. 16:18.110 --> 16:22.020 align:start They need to move off this. So, I mean, for now, this gets them out of the box. 16:22.020 --> 16:24.400 align:start GARRETT HAAKE: That's part of the reason you had Lindsey Graham over the last couple 16:24.400 --> 16:27.220 align:start weeks going - every time he'd get in front of a television camera saying: Mr. 16:27.220 --> 16:30.140 align:start President, if you think this is an emergency, go ahead and declare it. 16:30.140 --> 16:33.370 align:start Daring the president to take this step, so they could just move on. 16:33.370 --> 16:37.160 align:start There was no will to fight over this, especially among Senate Republicans who wanted to 16:37.160 --> 16:40.010 align:start talk about literally anything else over the last few weeks. 16:40.010 --> 16:43.330 align:start JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: Right. I mean, the interesting thing is that, you know, 16:43.330 --> 16:47.510 align:start the wall is not a huge priority for pretty much anyone other than President 16:47.510 --> 16:50.450 align:start Trump - certainly not many Republicans in Congress. 16:50.450 --> 16:54.670 align:start Sure, if you ask them, are you for it or are you against it, most of - most Republicans 16:54.670 --> 16:57.340 align:start would say they're for it. They think it's part of the solution. 16:57.340 --> 17:01.640 align:start But you don't - I mean, there are very, very few lawmakers on Capitol Hill who see this 17:01.640 --> 17:05.990 align:start as the be-all, end-all, even of dealing with immigration and dealing with illegal 17:05.990 --> 17:10.280 align:start immigration. They think that there are much more impactful ways of dealing with it. 17:10.280 --> 17:13.920 align:start And if they had their druthers, to write a bill, the wall wouldn't be anywhere near the 17:13.920 --> 17:16.580 align:start top of the priority list. So this is the president's fight. 17:16.580 --> 17:18.950 align:start And I think they're happy to move off of it. 17:18.950 --> 17:21.300 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Especially these moderate Republicans I was encountering on the Hill. 17:21.300 --> 17:24.310 align:start They want to move on so fast from this shutdown, and immigration. 17:24.310 --> 17:27.090 align:start They want to talk about the tax cut and other things. 17:27.090 --> 17:30.860 align:start But what happened with the shutdown standoff, the aversion of another shutdown, wasn't 17:30.860 --> 17:34.650 align:start the only story in Washington this week. The big story - another one - another 17:34.650 --> 17:39.130 align:start headline was the confirmation of William Barr to be the 85th attorney general. 17:39.130 --> 17:43.790 align:start Barr assumes leadership of a Justice Department handling multiple criminal investigations 17:43.790 --> 17:48.820 align:start that have shadowed President Trump's administration. Barr was confirmed despite concerns 17:48.820 --> 17:53.810 align:start from some Democrats about how he planned to oversee Special Counsel Robert Mueller's probe. 17:53.810 --> 17:58.730 align:start We saw some Democrats break away for that Mueller reason. Did they get any clarity during 17:58.730 --> 18:02.860 align:start the confirmation process, or is Barr for many Democrats, John, still a questionable figure? 18:02.860 --> 18:05.420 align:start JOHN BRESNAHAN: Well, they don't know what he's going to do on Mueller. 18:05.420 --> 18:09.100 align:start I mean, they - I think they're - and only three of them voted for him. 18:09.100 --> 18:14.130 align:start So I think they're hopeful that he - here is somebody who has a long history with the 18:14.130 --> 18:19.770 align:start Justice Department. Was - worked with Mueller, has a close relationship with Mueller. 18:19.770 --> 18:23.820 align:start So has enormous respect for Mueller, at least expressed publicly, and the Justice 18:23.820 --> 18:29.090 align:start Department. But I think - I mean, you see - I mean, you saw Trump today. He was, you know, 18:29.090 --> 18:32.590 align:start talking about Mueller - or Barr has the, you know, toughest job in Washington, you know. 18:32.590 --> 18:35.880 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Didn't he say to Barr: "Enjoy your life"? (Laughter.) Enjoy your life. 18:35.880 --> 18:38.540 align:start Quite a message from the president of the United States. 18:38.540 --> 18:41.280 align:start JOHN BRESNAHAN: So it was - which is - yeah, to your attorney general. 18:41.280 --> 18:44.560 align:start So I think they're hoping - but they didn't get any commitment from Barr that they would 18:44.560 --> 18:46.900 align:start release the Mueller report or anything like that. 18:46.900 --> 18:51.170 align:start I think they're hoping Barr does the right thing, but there's - you know, they have to see 18:51.170 --> 18:56.020 align:start this is a guy who clearly didn't support how far Mueller has gone. 18:56.020 --> 18:59.910 align:start There was the memo that he sent saying, you know, the whole obstruction of justice charge 18:59.910 --> 19:02.320 align:start wasn't going anywhere. So, I mean, we'll see what happens. 19:02.320 --> 19:04.760 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And another big part of Barr is whether he's going to change the culture 19:04.760 --> 19:08.090 align:start at the Department of Justice, and this week we saw part of that culture that's been that 19:08.090 --> 19:10.050 align:start clash with President Trump. 19:10.050 --> 19:14.090 align:start Former acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe made headlines when he told CBS News that he 19:14.090 --> 19:17.980 align:start opened an obstruction probe of the president the day after FBI Director James Comey was 19:17.980 --> 19:22.400 align:start fired. McCabe also spoke about alleged discussions inside the FBI about invoking 19:22.400 --> 19:26.530 align:start the 25th Amendment to remove the president from office. 19:26.530 --> 19:32.310 align:start Does Barr change this acrimonious relationship between DOJ and President Trump? 19:32.310 --> 19:35.580 align:start GARRETT HAAKE: I think everybody on Capitol Hill certainly hopes so. 19:35.580 --> 19:38.630 align:start I mean, Barr is an institutionalist. That's the one thing he brings to this. 19:38.630 --> 19:42.000 align:start Democrats weren't satisfied with his answers in his confirmation hearing, but at least 19:42.000 --> 19:46.190 align:start he's from a generation of folks who appreciate what the Justice Department does and he 19:46.190 --> 19:50.550 align:start might be able to improve that relationship because he gets how this is supposed to work. 19:50.550 --> 19:53.490 align:start But wasn't Christopher Wray supposed to do that with the FBI? 19:53.490 --> 19:57.170 align:start I don't know that he's improved the relationship between that department and the White 19:57.170 --> 19:59.970 align:start House any more - you know, having - the president having his own person there hasn't 19:59.970 --> 20:03.100 align:start really made a big difference. The president is essentially running against 20:03.100 --> 20:06.300 align:start individuals in these departments, and I don't know if that's going to change. 20:06.300 --> 20:09.620 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Julie, when you think about McCabe, the significance of it, I just want to 20:09.620 --> 20:12.690 align:start note that the Department of Justice issued a statement about McCabe's interview with 60 20:12.690 --> 20:16.230 align:start Minutes saying Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein rejects Mr. 20:16.230 --> 20:20.590 align:start McCabe's characterizations of events as inaccurate and factually incorrect. 20:20.590 --> 20:24.140 align:start The statement goes on to say the DOJ's Inspector General found Mr. 20:24.140 --> 20:28.740 align:start McCabe did not tell the truth to - did not tell the truth to federal authorities on 20:28.740 --> 20:33.160 align:start multiple occasions, so he's someone who has a debatable reputation inside of political 20:33.160 --> 20:37.130 align:start circles. What's the significance of him coming out with this book challenging the 20:37.130 --> 20:40.730 align:start president, bringing back that idea of discussions of the 25th Amendment? 20:40.730 --> 20:44.660 align:start JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS: Well, I think it sort of confirms again, even though he does 20:44.660 --> 20:50.670 align:start have credibility issues, just the degree to which the government - that Trump's own 20:50.670 --> 20:55.510 align:start government was fearful about what the new president might do. 20:55.510 --> 20:59.370 align:start I mean, he tells this story, and we reported some of it last year, of course. 20:59.370 --> 21:02.520 align:start Rod Rosenstein pushed back when we reported it then as well. 21:02.520 --> 21:08.770 align:start But, you know, after the president fires Comey, McCabe is worried that, you know - not 21:08.770 --> 21:13.760 align:start just, I think, about his own career, but that this investigation is going to be somehow 21:13.760 --> 21:17.600 align:start quashed, that the president is going to take actions to essentially reach in in a way 21:17.600 --> 21:21.570 align:start that he shouldn't be reaching in and stop the Russia investigation, and so he takes these 21:21.570 --> 21:28.030 align:start steps and they're talking actively in his telling about potentially removing the president. 21:28.030 --> 21:33.010 align:start The thing that's so interesting to me about this is that it really shows how Trump's 21:33.010 --> 21:37.550 align:start paranoia and suspicion about the deep state and all of the elements within his government 21:37.550 --> 21:41.490 align:start who were trying to push back against him essentially created the very dynamic that he was 21:41.490 --> 21:46.890 align:start afraid of. So you have McCabe at the FBI looking at what the president is doing and saying, 21:46.890 --> 21:50.960 align:start oh my gosh, he's shattering all of these norms, we have to protect the institution. 21:50.960 --> 21:54.380 align:start And you have the president sitting in the White House saying the government is trying to 21:54.380 --> 21:57.560 align:start undermine me and undercut me. They're both sort of right, right? And I think, you 21:57.560 --> 22:01.530 align:start know, just the book coming out just kind of reanimates that whole discussion. 22:01.530 --> 22:05.630 align:start ABBY PHILLIP: But it does sort of highlight that the problem here, the central problem 22:05.630 --> 22:09.080 align:start that maybe ties together Bill Barr and Andrew McCabe, is President Trump. 22:09.080 --> 22:13.340 align:start The problem for the attorney general, the deputy attorney general, the head of the DOJ, 22:13.340 --> 22:17.450 align:start whoever it is, is that the president wants to have his hands in a lot of things that he 22:17.450 --> 22:21.370 align:start probably shouldn't have his hands in, and that's a real challenge for people who work under 22:21.370 --> 22:26.850 align:start him. One of the things that really caused Andrew McCabe to have a lot of consternation 22:26.850 --> 22:30.910 align:start was President Trump calling him out of the blue and wanting to talk to him about 22:30.910 --> 22:36.240 align:start investigations that he - he relays in the book that presidents are not supposed to have 22:36.240 --> 22:39.860 align:start those kinds of conversations with people leading investigations. 22:39.860 --> 22:43.850 align:start So this is a constant theme that pretty much everybody who works in these jobs have 22:43.850 --> 22:47.880 align:start reiterated repeatedly, and I don't think President Trump really has changed even though 22:47.880 --> 22:50.500 align:start the cast of characters around him have. 22:50.500 --> 22:54.600 align:start And I suspect that Bill Barr is going to find out very quickly that managing that is 22:54.600 --> 22:59.450 align:start going to be his biggest challenge and protecting his people from the president is also 22:59.450 --> 23:02.470 align:start going to be the - a secondary challenge to that. 23:02.470 --> 23:05.320 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Real quick, CNN also scooped today, talking about the people around the 23:05.320 --> 23:08.280 align:start president, that Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, met with Robert 23:08.280 --> 23:11.030 align:start Mueller. Bill Barr is going in there, overseeing the Mueller probe. 23:11.030 --> 23:13.730 align:start It shows you there's just more and more turns with this Mueller probe. 23:13.730 --> 23:16.660 align:start ABBY PHILLIP: Definitely, and that interview happened quite a while ago and we only 23:16.660 --> 23:20.890 align:start learned about it really this week. So there are clearly a lot of people who have gone 23:20.890 --> 23:24.640 align:start in to talk to Mueller and we don't know anything about it. More to come on that. 23:24.640 --> 23:28.150 align:start ROBERT COSTA: More to come. We'll leave it there. Thanks, everybody, for joining us 23:28.150 --> 23:32.110 align:start here tonight. Our conversation will continue on the Washington Week Extra, and you will 23:32.110 --> 23:37.120 align:start soon be able to watch it live. Starting next Friday we will stream the Extra on our 23:37.120 --> 23:43.850 align:start website, YouTube, and Facebook every Friday night starting at 8:30 p.m. Eastern. 23:43.850 --> 24:17.820 align:start I'm Robert Costa. Have a great President's Day weekend.