WEBVTT 00:01.400 --> 00:03.900 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ALCINDOR: Good evening and welcome to "Washington Week." 00:03.900 --> 00:08.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Russia's invasion of Ukraine is now in its 10th week, and overnight, 00:08.533 --> 00:13.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% missiles hit the capital city of Kyiv as the U.N. secretary general was visiting. Russia claims it 00:16.033 --> 00:19.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% destroyed arms factory, but Ukrainian officials say a residential building was hit. That comes 00:21.800 --> 00:25.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% as growing fears are really expanding because the war could expand beyond Ukraine's borders. 00:28.300 --> 00:32.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% On Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin warned the West that any outside 00:32.700 --> 00:36.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% interference in the conflict could be met with a lightning fast response. 00:36.900 --> 00:38.333 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 00:38.333 --> 00:40.333 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): 00:40.333 --> 00:44.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% If someone intervenes in events, they should know that our response to counter strikes 00:44.266 --> 00:48.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% will be immediate, quick. We have all the instruments that no one could brag about. 00:48.666 --> 00:50.633 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (END VIDEO CLIP) 00:50.633 --> 00:53.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALCINDOR: And on Thursday, President Biden requested an additional 00:53.133 --> 00:57.866 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% $33 billion from Congress to help Ukraine. 00:57.866 --> 00:58.833 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 00:58.833 --> 00:59.600 align:left position:10% line:89% size:80% BIDEN: The cost of this fight 01:01.733 --> 01:05.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% is not cheap but caving to aggression is going to be more costly if we allow it to happen. As 01:08.133 --> 01:11.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% long as the assault and atrocities continue, we're going to continue to provide military assistance. 01:12.066 --> 01:14.133 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% (END VIDEO CLIP) 01:14.133 --> 01:16.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALCINDOR: Joining me tonight to discuss this and more, Michael Shear, White House 01:16.700 --> 01:21.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% correspondent for "The New York Times," and here with me in studio, Nikole Killion, 01:23.666 --> 01:27.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% congressional correspondent for CBS News, and Hans Nichols, political reporter for "Axios". 01:28.833 --> 01:30.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Thank you so much all for being with me on what is 01:30.733 --> 01:32.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a busy night in Washington. You are all partying with us at this table. 01:34.900 --> 01:38.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Michael, I want to start with you. Overnight, there was news that broke that Russia 01:40.800 --> 01:44.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% had sent a missile -- hit a missile to Kyiv, of course, the capital city of Ukraine. 01:46.833 --> 01:49.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% That came as the United Nations secretary general was visiting, as we noted. That also came after 01:49.700 --> 01:54.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the U.N. secretary-general was meeting face to face with Putin just a couple of days before. 01:56.666 --> 01:58.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I wonder what you make of the significance of this attack happening and the timing of it. 01:58.433 --> 02:01.100 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% MICHAEL SHEAR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: 02:01.100 --> 02:05.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Well, look, I think it underscores what has been pretty true for the last several weeks, at least 02:07.900 --> 02:12.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% in the United States in Washington, but in capitals across Europe and elsewhere, which 02:12.700 --> 02:17.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% is that this war is not ending any time soon. To the extent that Vladimir Putin pulled out of the 02:24.066 --> 02:29.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% areas around Kyiv and is focusing his attention on the south and east of the country of Ukraine, 02:32.133 --> 02:37.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that was really a reflection of how poorly his forces had done in its attempt to capture 02:39.100 --> 02:43.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the entire country, but if by no means, I think, signifies that this is about to end. 02:45.266 --> 02:48.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, you know, I think one of the things Putin is particularly good at is sending reminders 02:50.900 --> 02:55.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that this is not over, that he's not done. That he -- you know, for all of the poor performance 02:57.900 --> 03:01.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of his military, that they still have lots of capabilities to inflict pain. You know, perhaps 03:04.300 --> 03:09.200 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% they will be able to seize a good chunk of Ukraine on the east, 03:09.200 --> 03:14.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but even if they are not able to do that, their weaponry allows them to inflict damage 03:16.733 --> 03:21.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% as far as they want across the country, if its in the north, in Kyiv, in the west, or in the east. 03:23.666 --> 03:26.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So, you know, I just think it's -- it underscores that reality and, you know, helps to explain why 03:31.033 --> 03:36.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the allies, the United States and others, are bracing and requesting and finding more and 03:38.033 --> 03:42.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% more resources to supply to Kyiv and to Ukraine because they know it is not about to end soon. 03:42.300 --> 03:46.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% ALCINDOR: Certainly. And when you think about it, you're talking about this idea that the war 03:47.866 --> 03:49.966 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is certainly not going to be over any time soon. 03:49.966 --> 03:52.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And in some ways, Hans, I want to come to you because the defense secretary raised 03:52.866 --> 03:56.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% some eyebrows or really raised my eyebrows when he said that the U.S.'s goal here, 03:56.733 --> 04:00.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what it wants to see is Russia's military capabilities weaken. I 04:00.633 --> 04:04.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% wonder what your reporting reveals of sort of the proxy war that's going on right now. 04:04.100 --> 04:06.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% HANS NICHOLS, POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Well, it's very clear that the administration is being 04:06.933 --> 04:11.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% very deliberative about talking about Russia's battlefield losses and what is actually happening 04:14.500 --> 04:17.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% on the ground. There's almost a cadence to what is happening where we have the nightly briefing from 04:17.200 --> 04:22.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Zelenskyy in Ukraine and every other day, you get a deep Pentagon debrief on just narrating 04:24.333 --> 04:27.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% what's happening in the war and narrating it in a way that does not cast Russia in a great light. 04:29.766 --> 04:33.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It seems as though this is sort of the one-to punch in terms of the internal bolstering the 04:35.866 --> 04:38.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% people from Zelenskyy and externally what you're getting from the U.S., the warnings to Putin, 04:41.000 --> 04:43.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the messaging to Putin, but it does seem strong, and it does seem unique. And as Michael is noting, 04:45.466 --> 04:48.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the Russians still have some cards to play. They have a lot of capabilities, 04:48.066 --> 04:50.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% and as we all know, there are some scary capabilities out there. 04:50.800 --> 04:54.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALCINDOR: And there are some who are wondering whether or not this -- if all 04:54.700 --> 04:58.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that is happening at the administration might be moving closer to direct conflict 04:58.633 --> 05:00.933 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% with Russia. What's your reporting reveal about that? 05:00.933 --> 05:05.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% NICHOLS: There is still a red line there of actual direct conflict, but let's just 05:05.333 --> 05:09.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% look at where it shifted, right? I mean, remember the debate in the Obama administration, 05:09.266 --> 05:12.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% no lethal weapons. Well, that seems like it was decades ago, right? 05:12.866 --> 05:16.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Five, six years ago, now, we're all onboard with actual lethal weapons. 05:16.866 --> 05:18.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% The president of the United States, a Democratic president, 05:18.800 --> 05:21.200 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% is going to a defense contractor Lockheed Martin, 05:21.200 --> 05:26.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to watch Javelins coming off the assembly line, or where they build Javelins, right? That is a 05:28.200 --> 05:33.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% little bit stronger than just plain rhetoric. Think of the images and backdrop of that. 05:33.033 --> 05:37.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And this is a White House that wants to -- as you just heard the president talk of that, they want 05:37.200 --> 05:42.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% to spend money, they're prepared to spend whatever it takes. In this context, guys, $33 billion is 05:44.766 --> 05:47.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a lot of money. That -- I mean, you look at four military sales to Israel, I think it's the highest 05:47.833 --> 05:52.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% out there, it's about $3 billion a year. This is 10 times that and maybe even more compressed 05:55.400 --> 05:57.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% timeframe. So, a lot of money and a clear signal of intent they want to be in this for a long haul. 05:59.966 --> 06:03.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALCINDOR: Yeah. Nikole, Hans described $33 billion is a lot of money. It is, 06:05.200 --> 06:08.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of course, a lot of money. What's Congress and lawmakers there -- how 06:08.000 --> 06:11.833 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% do they see this request from the White House? Is there support there? 06:11.833 --> 06:13.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% NIKOLE KILLION, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CBS NEWS: Well, at this point, it seems there 06:13.933 --> 06:18.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% will be bipartisan support from both Democrats and Republicans. You know, I did have a chance 06:20.833 --> 06:23.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to talk to Congressman Michael McCaul, who sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, 06:23.900 --> 06:27.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a ranking member, and asked him, is this figure eye-popping to you, 06:27.200 --> 06:30.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% because that's what some Senate Republicans have said, and he said, look, you know, we got to go 06:30.866 --> 06:35.866 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% through this package, but he feels strongly that Ukraine needs all the military might it can get. 06:37.833 --> 06:41.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, of course, Democrats, too, want to move forward with this package as soon as possible. 06:41.200 --> 06:44.400 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Majority Leader Chuck Schumer says he plans to make it a priority. 06:44.400 --> 06:48.000 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% NICHOLS: And there's also some economic assistance as well, 06:48.000 --> 06:51.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% right? I think there number for direct military assistance in the $20 billion range, 06:51.900 --> 06:55.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% some economic assistance, some food security. So it is not all military, but again, 06:55.833 --> 06:58.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it is the broader point, and that is that they want to bolster the government 07:01.166 --> 07:03.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and make sure the Ukrainian people have what they need to survive, endure, and hopefully succeed. 07:03.733 --> 07:07.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALCINDOR: And, Nikole, you talk about Schumer, Senator Schumer, of course. 07:08.933 --> 07:11.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% There's some talk the Democrats want to tie this to COVID. We're going to get a 07:11.000 --> 07:13.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% whole block on COVID, but just talk a little bit about what the challenges 07:13.900 --> 07:16.066 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% could be there and how much of a gamble it might be for Democrats. 07:16.066 --> 07:20.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KILLION: Well, I was going to say, the devil is in the detail, it's not so much this package, 07:20.633 --> 07:25.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but really how they get it done. We have seen, especially when Democrats try to link packages 07:27.066 --> 07:28.800 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% in the past, it has not been so successful and -- 07:28.800 --> 07:30.800 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ALCINDOR: Just putting it lightly, yes. 07:30.800 --> 07:35.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KILLION: Mildly. But, you know, this time potentially could be no different. Republicans 07:37.400 --> 07:40.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% are certainly balking at the idea of tying the Ukraine funding to COVID funding, and really the 07:42.700 --> 07:45.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% premise behind this for Democrats is the administration has been clear that they 07:45.600 --> 07:50.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% also want this COVID really funding passed. That this will help for future pandemic. 07:52.566 --> 07:54.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It didn't succeed before the recess. So, they want to bring it up again. 07:54.533 --> 07:58.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And just today, Speaker Pelosi said she does believe that they should be 07:58.633 --> 08:03.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% tied together. So, this is something that could potentially bug both packages down. 08:03.500 --> 08:06.800 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% ALCINDOR: And, Michael, the White House has indicating that this 08:06.800 --> 08:11.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% money -- this $33 billion would last five months. I think that's obviously 08:13.700 --> 08:17.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at the end of the fiscal year, but that's also a lot of money. What's your sense Inside 08:17.733 --> 08:22.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the White House, what is your sense of what is motivating officials to make this ask to Congress? 08:24.633 --> 08:28.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% SHEAR: I think -- I think it's two things, right? On the substantive side, I think they 08:30.800 --> 08:33.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% recognize that the war will be over soon. So, you don't want to be in a position of having 08:35.900 --> 08:40.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to go back to Congress over and over again with a bunch of small asks if you know or think that 08:44.466 --> 08:48.866 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% it will be a costly endeavor that is going to last a long time. 08:48.866 --> 08:53.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I also think this is all playing out in a political context. It is an election year. 08:55.733 --> 09:00.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% You know, I think President Biden wants to be seen as solid and determined 09:03.733 --> 09:08.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% on an issue that does have bipartisan support. There is a lot of support across the aisle for 09:10.666 --> 09:14.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Ukraine and for not letting them falter in the face of the Russian invasion. 09:16.866 --> 09:21.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And, you know, I sort of second Hans' mentioning of the trip next week to the 09:24.866 --> 09:29.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% plant where they make these Javelin missiles. I mean, it is remarkable that that is a trip 09:31.833 --> 09:34.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that this president is going to take. He never wanted to make a trip like that. 09:34.533 --> 09:38.633 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This is a president who wanted to spend the next several months before the election focused 09:38.633 --> 09:43.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% on the economy, focused on job creation, on the so-called bread-and-butter issues that American 09:45.666 --> 09:49.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% people care about. You know, the fact that he is going and doing this photo op tells you all 09:51.900 --> 09:55.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you need to know about where he thinks he needs to position himself politically at this moment. 09:57.900 --> 10:02.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ALCINDOR: It's certainly going to be striking when we see President Biden next week in Alabama. 10:02.533 --> 10:07.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I want to talk you, Hans, because even as the American people say they want to talk about red 10:07.100 --> 10:12.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and butter issues, there is the Russian foreign minister who is saying specifically that the more 10:14.133 --> 10:17.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that the West they say meddles, of course, the West would say -- helps Ukraine, the more there 10:19.800 --> 10:23.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is the risk for nuclear war. Did you talk to your sources -- national security officials? 10:23.400 --> 10:24.566 align:left position:30% line:89% size:60% NICHOLS: Yeah. 10:24.566 --> 10:26.600 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ALCINDOR: How concerned are they about it? 10:26.600 --> 10:29.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% NICHOLS: It's troubling. And you -- I mean, I wish I had a better barometer for talking to 10:29.666 --> 10:34.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% national security officials for how concerned they are because they toss around phrases 10:37.300 --> 10:40.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that troubled me, if I am kind of honest about it, right? And you talk about the potential for chems, 10:42.700 --> 10:47.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for nukes, for tacticals, and just the ease with which officials are, especially the former side, 10:49.666 --> 10:54.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they're tossing these terms around makes you think that this is quite serious, right? 10:56.333 --> 10:59.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, no one -- none of us know what moves Putin is going to make. We are in a difficult 11:01.400 --> 11:05.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% position here, and it is troubling when anyone threatens and that's what -- let's very clear 11:07.400 --> 11:10.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what's happening. They are threatening to use weapons of mass destruction. 11:12.200 --> 11:15.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% They can hide behind caveats, but they know exactly what their intent is. 11:15.333 --> 11:16.700 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% And that to me seemed significant. 11:16.700 --> 11:18.833 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% ALCINDOR: That is absolutely significant. 11:18.833 --> 11:22.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% KILLION: I was going to say, even Senator Lindsey Graham, who is always very hawkish, 11:22.933 --> 11:27.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% said in an interview this week that he thinks that a nuclear strike could be a possibility or that 11:30.300 --> 11:35.300 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% the Russians may be contemplating that. We do not know if there is intelligence to necessarily back 11:37.766 --> 11:40.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that up, but we know there is concern among members of Congress as well, and the implications. 11:42.633 --> 11:45.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ALCINDOR: And to think about something - - thinking about these concerns, 11:45.300 --> 11:50.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% not only now as I listen to Hans sort of scare me about nuclear weapons and what could happen there. 11:52.733 --> 11:55.300 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% NICHOLS: Yeah, look, I don't -- I mean, I obviously do not have a 11:55.300 --> 11:59.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% roadmap to Vladimir Putin's mind. I don't know what their intent. It could be some strategic 11:59.066 --> 12:02.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% bluffing taking place, it could be a whole host of things. There are people much smarter than I 12:02.800 --> 12:06.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% at the Pentagon who have Putin's psychological profile. They have excellent intelligence. 12:06.300 --> 12:09.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I mean, one thing that we sort of learned about this entire process is that 12:09.333 --> 12:12.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% most of the intelligence, at least the predictive on what Putin was going to do 12:12.800 --> 12:17.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% has been accurate. So there should be a fair - - you know, some acknowledgment of that. 12:17.333 --> 12:21.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Look, I mean, you have conversations with Lindsey Graham, I mean, people are just sort 12:21.733 --> 12:26.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of talking about it as though this is a real possibility, and then I don't know how quickly 12:28.800 --> 12:31.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Lindsey Graham pivoted to other issues, but it seems like a moment when you have Democrats and 12:31.500 --> 12:36.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans on Capitol Hill even entertaining this. And I think it tells us where we are. 12:36.066 --> 12:38.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I mean, I don't know what they're saying in the hall ways. You spend all your time down there, 12:40.233 --> 12:42.733 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% what you're picking and just kind of sidebar conversations. 12:42.733 --> 12:47.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% KILLION: I think it remains a concern, ands, you know, for all the reasons you explain. You always 12:50.000 --> 12:52.200 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% have to be prepared for that worst-case scenario. And I think whether it's the Pentagon, whether if 12:52.200 --> 12:56.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% it's the Hill, whether it's the administration, you know, you have to be prepared for the worse. 12:56.033 --> 12:58.666 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Hopefully, it does not get to that point, but certainly, 12:58.666 --> 13:03.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it's clear Russia is not done, that they could escalate things, especially with this 13:03.100 --> 13:06.533 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% symbolic victory day coming up in just another week or two. 13:06.533 --> 13:10.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% ALCINDOR: Yeah. And, of course, now -- go ahead, Michael. 13:10.700 --> 13:15.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% SHEAR: Really quickly, the one thing I would caution so listeners do not get totally panicked 13:18.233 --> 13:23.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is that the U.S. military, the allies, they have not changed our own nuclear posture, 13:25.333 --> 13:28.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% right? Which would be -- you know, you don't have the sense that any on this side have actually 13:32.866 --> 13:37.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% taken fundamental steps to change the military readiness vis-a-vis nuclear weapons, which 13:40.000 --> 13:44.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% gives you some indication that it is not as imminent as, you know, people might think. 13:44.700 --> 13:46.000 align:left position:20% line:89% size:70% ALCINDOR: Certainly.