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(gentle lively music)

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- Welcome to the 
Washington Week Extra,

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I'm Yamiche Alcindor.

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This week, billionaire 
Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin

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rocket blasted into space again.

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On board this time, former Star 
Trek actor, William Shatner.

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The 90-year-old became the 
oldest person to go into space.

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Here's what he had 
to say to Bezos

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when he got back to Earth.

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- I'm so filled with emotion 
about what just happened.

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I just, it's extraordinary.

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I hope that I can maintain,

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what I feel now I 
don't want to lose it.

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It's so,

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so much larger than me and life.

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- You could tell he 
was very, very moved.

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Later in an interview with CNN,

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he talked about how the 
experience made him reflect

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on issues like climate change.

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- We haven't got 
time to wait 30 years

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and argue about a few billion 
dollars, which we should.

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How much should we invest in 
global warming, we're there.

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And so all these 
terrible things happening

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in the body politic as 
merely a hesitation before,

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I mean, it's just terrible.

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- But the growth 
of space tourism,

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it's also raising 
questions about inequality.

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Many are criticizing the 
fact that while the wealthy

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are sailing into space, others 
are struggling to survive,

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on the ground here at home.

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Back in the 1970s,

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the space program also 
faced similar criticism.

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Poet and musician 
Gil Scott-Heron asked 
why federal money

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was going to the Space 
Race while black people

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in America suffer.

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Now, some progressive 
lawmakers are pushing

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to raise taxes on large 
corporations like Amazon,

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which owns Blue Origin to pay 
for President Biden's agenda.

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Here's Senator Elizabeth Warren.

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- The money is going to 
come from the billionaires

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who don't pay their taxes

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and therefore have enough money

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to shoot themselves into space.

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(audience clapping and cheering)

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It's gonna come from giant 
corporations like Amazon,

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who turn around and say 
to their shareholders

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and to the public winning $10 
billion in profits last year.

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And you know how much 
we paid in taxes, zero.

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We're going to cut that out.

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- Joining me to 
discuss all of this

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and more Stephanie Ruhle, 
MSNBC Anchor at NBC News,

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Chief Business Correspondent.

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And here with me in 
studio, Leigh Ann Caldwell,

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NBC News Capitol 
Hill Correspondent,

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Eugene Daniels, 
White House Reporter

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and co-author of 
"Political Playbook,"

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and Jonathan Karl, ABC News, 
Chief Washington Correspondent,

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and Co-anchor of "This Week."

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Now, Stephanie, 
we introduced you

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as the Chief Business 
Correspondent,

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but you're gonna be the 
Space Correspondent for us.

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You have interviewed Jeff Bezos.

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You've talked about space

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and you've reported on 
these space missions.

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What's your reporting revealed 
about what's motivating

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Jeff Bezos and other 
wealthy frankly,

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billionaires to go into space?

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- Well, first I would say 
Amazon doesn't own Blue Origin.

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Jeff Bezos does personally,

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and I'm not defending what 
they do with their money,

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but this is very, very 
different from what happened

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in the 1970s.

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This isn't the 
government's money.

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These are obscenely, 
absurdly wealthy guys

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who are legally allowed to be 
that rich spending their money

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on whatever the heck they 
want and what they want

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to spend it on is 
space exploration.

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And while I completely 
understand, appreciate,

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empathize with 
the rage and fury,

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so many people feel about 
many of these corporations

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and the richest of the rich 
not paying their fair share.

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Here's the problem. They're 
all doing it legally.

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If any of it was illegal,

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we'd be going after 
those companies.

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So, Elizabeth Warren, I fully 
understand what she's saying,

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but if people are that 
angry about the way

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they're spending their money.

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I'm not sure why we're 
yelling at Jeff Bezos

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and Elon Musk and 
Richard Branson.

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Call your Congress 
person, right?

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None of us pay more 
taxes than we have to.

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They have legally figured out 
a way to use every loophole

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possible and pay the least 
amount of money possible.

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And that's how 
they're doing this.

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So, should they spend 
their money on that?

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That's not really 
for me to judge,

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but I know as a reporter 
who covers this,

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they're doing it legally.

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And from a branding 
perspective, I mean,

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it was genius that they 
would choose William Shatner

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because let's all be honest.

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If that launch this 
week was just a couple

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of super rich people 
who paid their way on,

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which were two of those two 
Australian guys on there

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with William Shatner 
and a Blue Origin pilot,

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it were just the rich people,

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none of us would have watched.

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But because William 
Shatner, you know,

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America's favorite was up there.

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It was a huge TV moment

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and it was covered 
around the world,

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it was brilliant, 
free marketing.

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- Well, I can tell you 
Stephanie, it was a huge moment.

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And part of the 
reason why, frankly,

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we're looking at this 
is because I woke up

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and saw my husband watching this

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and sort of, he was really,

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really enthralled at 
the idea of Captain Kirk

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going into space.

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Talk a bit about that 
moment because it was moving

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to see William Shatner 
talk about his experience.

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- It was extraordinary.

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I was talking to Scott 
Kelly at the time,

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Scott Kelly, an astronaut,

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his brother, Mark 
Kelly, a Senator.

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And they were both reflecting 
on when they were little kids

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hiding behind their mother's 
couch, watching Star Trek.

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It's what gave them the dream 
to one day become astronauts.

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Jeff Bezos actually 
gave the four of them

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when they got in to the shuttle,

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some crafts he made as 
a little kid fantasizing

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about Star Trek that his 
mother had given him.

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And there is this 
cool thing, right?

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I was at the first launch

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and I'm not normally 
a science enthusiast,

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but when you experience 
a launch, when you feel,

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when you see that sonic boom

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or when you're just 
watching it on TV,

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that is one of those moments 
of American exceptionalism.

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When you're about science,

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when you're excited 
about the possibilities,

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and we need those 
moments for our kids

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to get excited about education.

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I mean, I don't feel 
that Star Trek nostalgia.

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When I was little,

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I was hiding behind a 
couch with my sister

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watching "Dance Fever" 
and "Solid Gold."

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So, my feelings are 
a bit different,

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but I mean it was amazing for 
people to see William Shatner.

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And what did he talk about?

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He said that everyone 
should experience it.

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And he said, this shows 
how fragile the Earth is.

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And again, you could say, 
well, it's pennies compared

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to his massive fortune,

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but Bezos is putting a lot of 
money behind his Earth Fund,

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which is focused 
on climate change

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and preserving the planet.

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That is what he's spending 
his time doing now,

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not on Amazon anymore.

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So, when you saw William 
Shatner's first response,

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it was, "The Earth is precious, 
we need to protect it."

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- And Stephanie, one 
more question for you,

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'cause like I said, you 
are a Space Correspondent.

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You interviewed Jeff Bezos 
right after he came back

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from traveling to space.

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Here's a clip from 
that interview.

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- For all those 
millions of Americans-

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- Yeah.

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- who are watching this,

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who are saying, 
this is a joy ride.

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It has nothing to do with me. 
- Yeah.

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What did you experience that 
matters to all Americans?

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- Well, listen.

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We have to build a road 
to space so that our kids

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and their kids can 
build the future.

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We live on this 
beautiful planet.

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We saw this, it 
feels like, you know,

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this atmosphere is huge 
and we can disregard it

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and treat it poorly when you 
get up there and you see it,

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you see how tiny it is 
and how fragile it is.

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- Stephanie, talk a bit 
more about that interview

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and what you took away from it.

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- Listen, that was sort of 
this extraordinary moment

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to speak to someone 
who had just returned.

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I spoke to Jeff 
Bezos at the time.

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I spoke to his 
brother, Mark Bezos.

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I spoke to Mark this week

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and they had this 
moment where they said,

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"I want to honor the planet."

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And you hear about,

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you hear this from so many 
people that we've interviewed

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who have spent time in space.

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It's that moment 
when you look back

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and you can see Planet Earth.

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People say it 
changes you forever.

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It's what Jeff Bezos said.

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Then it's what William 
Shatner said this week.

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And that is pretty 
extraordinary.

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And when you think about 
the fact that our kids think

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and talk a lot less 
about space exploration

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than I did when I was a kid

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because we don't do it from 
a government perspective,

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as much as we did.

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And now that you have 
companies like SpaceX

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and Blue Origin and 
Virgin Galactic doing this

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and working with our 
own government and 
government projects,

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it is getting us closer 
to returning to the moon.

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And that's pretty exciting.

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- And Leigh Ann, you 
were nodding your head

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when Stephanie was 
talking about the idea of,

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if people are angry 
about what's going on,

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call your Congress member.

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Talk a bit about that.

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- Well, the reason I was nodding 
is because what Steph said,

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and also what 
Senator Warren said.

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The whole point of their 
multi-trillion dollar

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infrastructure bills is to 
restructure the economy.

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So, that the middle 
and lower class people

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with less money have a chance.

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And the people though 
top 1% of the top 0.001%,

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there's an even more 
equal distribution.

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And that is part of the goal 
with the Democrats agenda.

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It's not just to provide 
paid family leave.

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It's not just to provide 
pre-universal preschool

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or free universal preschool,

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but it's to like to ensure

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that people

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get a bigger share of that pie.

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- And Eugene, how well 
do you think though-

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- [Stephanie] Except 
Yamiche I would say to that-

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- Go, go ahead, Stephanie.

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- I would just say 
the problem though,

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is it doesn't have Elizabeth 
Warren's wealth tax in there.

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It still has the giant 
loophole for carried interest

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for private equity firms.

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It still has preserved 10/31,

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which is the absurd provision

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that commercial real 
estate firms have.

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So, the one unfortunate takeaway

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with the reconciliation 
bill that you realize

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is Democrats win and lose 
Republicans win and lose,

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but you know, who always 
wins mega, mega rich donors.

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So, the new plan does focus 
on a redistribution of wealth

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and it will tax 
anyone making $400,000

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or family making 
$400,000 or more.

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But this idea that 
they're really gonna go

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after corporations 
and the mega rich,

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it's a hard pass, they don't.

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- Yeah, well, Eugene talk 
a little bit about that

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and the White 
House's stance here

251
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and how effectively President 
Biden is talking about this.

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I've heard from some sources

253
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that they're a little 
angry that some polls show

254
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that Americans, while 
they back the plans,

255
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they don't really 
know what's in it.

256
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Of course, full disclosure.

257
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It's not clear 
what's in the plan.

258
00:10:30,529 --> 00:10:31,631
(group chuckles and chatters)

259
00:10:31,631 --> 00:10:32,498
We're still negotiating.

260
00:10:32,498 --> 00:10:33,666
- Exactly, exactly.

261
00:10:33,666 --> 00:10:35,201
No, that's exactly right.

262
00:10:35,201 --> 00:10:37,303
And even when you look at 
the child tax credit, right?

263
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We did a poll, political 
and morning consult,

264
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and people weren't 
giving Joe Biden credit

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for the child tax credit,

266
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despite the fact 
that was something

267
00:10:45,344 --> 00:10:47,780
that he has really, 
really worked on,

268
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and championed him and Vice 
President Kamala Harris.

269
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And so, I think the way 
they're seeing this, as in,

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I've talked to many 
sources about this,

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how are you guys going to sell 
this to the American people?

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And I know this sounds 
gross and grimy,

273
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but it's politics and 
you have to tell people

274
00:11:00,726 --> 00:11:03,295
what you're doing for them, 
and they have to believe you.

275
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And I think that's 
something that

276
00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:06,132
this White House 
has struggled with,

277
00:11:06,132 --> 00:11:08,701
that they're not giving you 
credit for the child tax credit.

278
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If they're not gonna,

279
00:11:10,202 --> 00:11:11,771
are they gonna give you credit 
for the reconciliation bill,

280
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even if it changes 
their life, right?

281
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This is, if this bill passes,

282
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whether it's 3.5 or 
1.5 or 1.9 or 2.3,

283
00:11:19,278 --> 00:11:22,748
that is more trillions of 
dollars and has ever been pumped

284
00:11:22,748 --> 00:11:25,518
into the U.S. economy 
in this way, right?

285
00:11:25,518 --> 00:11:28,521
And so if they have to have to 
make sure they sell it to the

286
00:11:28,521 --> 00:11:30,256
American people and 
they know that, right?

287
00:11:30,256 --> 00:11:32,258
These people have 
been doing government

288
00:11:32,258 --> 00:11:33,759
for a very long time.

289
00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:36,829
And I think President Biden 
though, has gone on the road.

290
00:11:36,829 --> 00:11:38,831
We saw him doing it more, right?

291
00:11:38,831 --> 00:11:40,266
He's been doing 
it more and more,

292
00:11:40,266 --> 00:11:41,767
but he has to 
continue to do that.

293
00:11:41,767 --> 00:11:44,437
Or the American people are 
gonna shrug, take their money.

294
00:11:44,437 --> 00:11:45,404
You know what I mean?

295
00:11:45,404 --> 00:11:47,106
Take that tax cut and move on.

296
00:11:47,106 --> 00:11:48,774
- And John, I want to give 
you the last question.

297
00:11:48,774 --> 00:11:50,476
You said that you were 
open to going to space.

298
00:11:50,476 --> 00:11:51,477
You can talk a little 
bit about that.

299
00:11:51,477 --> 00:11:52,978
- Yeah.

300
00:11:52,978 --> 00:11:54,313
- But I also (chuckles) 
wanted to just ask you a bit

301
00:11:54,313 --> 00:11:57,349
about what you make of 
this sort of argument

302
00:11:57,349 --> 00:11:58,384
that's going on in Capitol Hill

303
00:11:58,384 --> 00:12:00,286
about these sort of plans

304
00:12:00,286 --> 00:12:01,821
and the present economic agenda,

305
00:12:01,821 --> 00:12:03,389
and also this 
criticism of space.

306
00:12:03,389 --> 00:12:05,958
- Well, it certainly 
suggests there is some

307
00:12:05,958 --> 00:12:08,828
disposable income 
(chuckles) available,

308
00:12:08,828 --> 00:12:10,329
but on the space thing,

309
00:12:10,329 --> 00:12:11,464
more than a decade ago,

310
00:12:11,464 --> 00:12:12,932
when I was a Pentagon 
Correspondent,

311
00:12:12,932 --> 00:12:14,900
I had the opportunity 
to do a story

312
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:16,836
about the U2 
Reconnaissance plane.

313
00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:18,938
And I went through, 
wore a space suit,

314
00:12:18,938 --> 00:12:21,340
which did training with 
the pressurized chamber.

315
00:12:21,340 --> 00:12:23,576
All of that went up to 
the edge of the atmosphere

316
00:12:23,576 --> 00:12:26,479
and did see that, you see 
the curvature of the Earth,

317
00:12:26,479 --> 00:12:28,714
the blueness of 
Earth's atmosphere,

318
00:12:28,714 --> 00:12:30,616
the utter darkness 
of outer space.

319
00:12:30,616 --> 00:12:33,419
And it does, I think, affect 
the way you look at the world.

320
00:12:33,419 --> 00:12:36,055
But we should say that 
there's a big difference

321
00:12:36,055 --> 00:12:39,658
with what Jeff Bezos is 
doing through Blue Origin

322
00:12:39,658 --> 00:12:41,527
and what Elon Musk is doing.

323
00:12:41,527 --> 00:12:45,865
Elon Musk really wants to, 
you know, break new ground

324
00:12:45,865 --> 00:12:47,666
in space exploration.

325
00:12:47,666 --> 00:12:50,402
This was kind of nice, you 
know, William Shatner went up.

326
00:12:50,402 --> 00:12:53,839
He did what, you know, 
what Alan Shepard did,

327
00:12:53,839 --> 00:12:57,009
you know, decades and 
decades and decades ago.

328
00:12:57,009 --> 00:13:00,713
But you know, Elon Musk wants 
to have a shuttle to Mars.

329
00:13:00,713 --> 00:13:04,650
And I don't know if 
it's a crazy dream,

330
00:13:04,650 --> 00:13:07,620
but he is talking about doing 
something that would really

331
00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:11,824
expand the human 
knowledge of outer space.

332
00:13:11,824 --> 00:13:14,727
And that, ultimately 
should be something

333
00:13:14,727 --> 00:13:16,028
that benefits mankind.

334
00:13:16,028 --> 00:13:19,131
- Yeah, we'll have to 
leave it there tonight.

335
00:13:19,131 --> 00:13:20,900
It's such an interesting 
conversation.

336
00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:23,002
I didn't know that I had 
two Space Correspondents,

337
00:13:23,002 --> 00:13:24,236
(group laughs)

338
00:13:24,236 --> 00:13:25,805
but thank you so much 
to Stephanie, Leigh Ann,

339
00:13:25,805 --> 00:13:28,741
Eugene and John for joining 
us and sharing your reporting

340
00:13:28,741 --> 00:13:30,943
and made sure to sign up for 
the Washington Week Newsletter

341
00:13:30,943 --> 00:13:32,711
on our website, we 
will give you a look

342
00:13:32,711 --> 00:13:34,146
at all things, Washington.

343
00:13:34,146 --> 00:13:35,314
Thank you for joining us.

344
00:13:35,314 --> 00:13:37,316
I'm Yamiche 
Alcindor. Good night.

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00:13:38,184 --> 00:13:40,753
(upbeat music)