(gentle lively music)

- Welcome to the
Washington Week Extra,

I'm Yamiche Alcindor.

This week, billionaire
Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin

rocket blasted into space again.

On board this time, former Star
Trek actor, William Shatner.

The 90-year-old became the
oldest person to go into space.

Here's what he had
to say to Bezos

when he got back to Earth.

- I'm so filled with emotion
about what just happened.

I just, it's extraordinary.

I hope that I can maintain,

what I feel now I
don't want to lose it.

It's so,

so much larger than me and life.

- You could tell he
was very, very moved.

Later in an interview with CNN,

he talked about how the
experience made him reflect

on issues like climate change.

- We haven't got
time to wait 30 years

and argue about a few billion
dollars, which we should.

How much should we invest in
global warming, we're there.

And so all these
terrible things happening

in the body politic as
merely a hesitation before,

I mean, it's just terrible.

- But the growth
of space tourism,

it's also raising
questions about inequality.

Many are criticizing the
fact that while the wealthy

are sailing into space, others
are struggling to survive,

on the ground here at home.

Back in the 1970s,

the space program also
faced similar criticism.

Poet and musician
Gil Scott-Heron asked
why federal money

was going to the Space
Race while black people

in America suffer.

Now, some progressive
lawmakers are pushing

to raise taxes on large
corporations like Amazon,

which owns Blue Origin to pay
for President Biden's agenda.

Here's Senator Elizabeth Warren.

- The money is going to
come from the billionaires

who don't pay their taxes

and therefore have enough money

to shoot themselves into space.

(audience clapping and cheering)

It's gonna come from giant
corporations like Amazon,

who turn around and say
to their shareholders

and to the public winning $10
billion in profits last year.

And you know how much
we paid in taxes, zero.

We're going to cut that out.

- Joining me to
discuss all of this

and more Stephanie Ruhle,
MSNBC Anchor at NBC News,

Chief Business Correspondent.

And here with me in
studio, Leigh Ann Caldwell,

NBC News Capitol
Hill Correspondent,

Eugene Daniels,
White House Reporter

and co-author of
"Political Playbook,"

and Jonathan Karl, ABC News,
Chief Washington Correspondent,

and Co-anchor of "This Week."

Now, Stephanie,
we introduced you

as the Chief Business
Correspondent,

but you're gonna be the
Space Correspondent for us.

You have interviewed Jeff Bezos.

You've talked about space

and you've reported on
these space missions.

What's your reporting revealed
about what's motivating

Jeff Bezos and other
wealthy frankly,

billionaires to go into space?

- Well, first I would say
Amazon doesn't own Blue Origin.

Jeff Bezos does personally,

and I'm not defending what
they do with their money,

but this is very, very
different from what happened

in the 1970s.

This isn't the
government's money.

These are obscenely,
absurdly wealthy guys

who are legally allowed to be
that rich spending their money

on whatever the heck they
want and what they want

to spend it on is
space exploration.

And while I completely
understand, appreciate,

empathize with
the rage and fury,

so many people feel about
many of these corporations

and the richest of the rich
not paying their fair share.

Here's the problem. They're
all doing it legally.

If any of it was illegal,

we'd be going after
those companies.

So, Elizabeth Warren, I fully
understand what she's saying,

but if people are that
angry about the way

they're spending their money.

I'm not sure why we're
yelling at Jeff Bezos

and Elon Musk and
Richard Branson.

Call your Congress
person, right?

None of us pay more
taxes than we have to.

They have legally figured out
a way to use every loophole

possible and pay the least
amount of money possible.

And that's how
they're doing this.

So, should they spend
their money on that?

That's not really
for me to judge,

but I know as a reporter
who covers this,

they're doing it legally.

And from a branding
perspective, I mean,

it was genius that they
would choose William Shatner

because let's all be honest.

If that launch this
week was just a couple

of super rich people
who paid their way on,

which were two of those two
Australian guys on there

with William Shatner
and a Blue Origin pilot,

it were just the rich people,

none of us would have watched.

But because William
Shatner, you know,

America's favorite was up there.

It was a huge TV moment

and it was covered
around the world,

it was brilliant,
free marketing.

- Well, I can tell you
Stephanie, it was a huge moment.

And part of the
reason why, frankly,

we're looking at this
is because I woke up

and saw my husband watching this

and sort of, he was really,

really enthralled at
the idea of Captain Kirk

going into space.

Talk a bit about that
moment because it was moving

to see William Shatner
talk about his experience.

- It was extraordinary.

I was talking to Scott
Kelly at the time,

Scott Kelly, an astronaut,

his brother, Mark
Kelly, a Senator.

And they were both reflecting
on when they were little kids

hiding behind their mother's
couch, watching Star Trek.

It's what gave them the dream
to one day become astronauts.

Jeff Bezos actually
gave the four of them

when they got in to the shuttle,

some crafts he made as
a little kid fantasizing

about Star Trek that his
mother had given him.

And there is this
cool thing, right?

I was at the first launch

and I'm not normally
a science enthusiast,

but when you experience
a launch, when you feel,

when you see that sonic boom

or when you're just
watching it on TV,

that is one of those moments
of American exceptionalism.

When you're about science,

when you're excited
about the possibilities,

and we need those
moments for our kids

to get excited about education.

I mean, I don't feel
that Star Trek nostalgia.

When I was little,

I was hiding behind a
couch with my sister

watching "Dance Fever"
and "Solid Gold."

So, my feelings are
a bit different,

but I mean it was amazing for
people to see William Shatner.

And what did he talk about?

He said that everyone
should experience it.

And he said, this shows
how fragile the Earth is.

And again, you could say,
well, it's pennies compared

to his massive fortune,

but Bezos is putting a lot of
money behind his Earth Fund,

which is focused
on climate change

and preserving the planet.

That is what he's spending
his time doing now,

not on Amazon anymore.

So, when you saw William
Shatner's first response,

it was, "The Earth is precious,
we need to protect it."

- And Stephanie, one
more question for you,

'cause like I said, you
are a Space Correspondent.

You interviewed Jeff Bezos
right after he came back

from traveling to space.

Here's a clip from
that interview.

- For all those
millions of Americans-

- Yeah.

- who are watching this,

who are saying,
this is a joy ride.

It has nothing to do with me.
- Yeah.

What did you experience that
matters to all Americans?

- Well, listen.

We have to build a road
to space so that our kids

and their kids can
build the future.

We live on this
beautiful planet.

We saw this, it
feels like, you know,

this atmosphere is huge
and we can disregard it

and treat it poorly when you
get up there and you see it,

you see how tiny it is
and how fragile it is.

- Stephanie, talk a bit
more about that interview

and what you took away from it.

- Listen, that was sort of
this extraordinary moment

to speak to someone
who had just returned.

I spoke to Jeff
Bezos at the time.

I spoke to his
brother, Mark Bezos.

I spoke to Mark this week

and they had this
moment where they said,

"I want to honor the planet."

And you hear about,

you hear this from so many
people that we've interviewed

who have spent time in space.

It's that moment
when you look back

and you can see Planet Earth.

People say it
changes you forever.

It's what Jeff Bezos said.

Then it's what William
Shatner said this week.

And that is pretty
extraordinary.

And when you think about
the fact that our kids think

and talk a lot less
about space exploration

than I did when I was a kid

because we don't do it from
a government perspective,

as much as we did.

And now that you have
companies like SpaceX

and Blue Origin and
Virgin Galactic doing this

and working with our
own government and
government projects,

it is getting us closer
to returning to the moon.

And that's pretty exciting.

- And Leigh Ann, you
were nodding your head

when Stephanie was
talking about the idea of,

if people are angry
about what's going on,

call your Congress member.

Talk a bit about that.

- Well, the reason I was nodding
is because what Steph said,

and also what
Senator Warren said.

The whole point of their
multi-trillion dollar

infrastructure bills is to
restructure the economy.

So, that the middle
and lower class people

with less money have a chance.

And the people though
top 1% of the top 0.001%,

there's an even more
equal distribution.

And that is part of the goal
with the Democrats agenda.

It's not just to provide
paid family leave.

It's not just to provide
pre-universal preschool

or free universal preschool,

but it's to like to ensure

that people

get a bigger share of that pie.

- And Eugene, how well
do you think though-

- [Stephanie] Except
Yamiche I would say to that-

- Go, go ahead, Stephanie.

- I would just say
the problem though,

is it doesn't have Elizabeth
Warren's wealth tax in there.

It still has the giant
loophole for carried interest

for private equity firms.

It still has preserved 10/31,

which is the absurd provision

that commercial real
estate firms have.

So, the one unfortunate takeaway

with the reconciliation
bill that you realize

is Democrats win and lose
Republicans win and lose,

but you know, who always
wins mega, mega rich donors.

So, the new plan does focus
on a redistribution of wealth

and it will tax
anyone making $400,000

or family making
$400,000 or more.

But this idea that
they're really gonna go

after corporations
and the mega rich,

it's a hard pass, they don't.

- Yeah, well, Eugene talk
a little bit about that

and the White
House's stance here

and how effectively President
Biden is talking about this.

I've heard from some sources

that they're a little
angry that some polls show

that Americans, while
they back the plans,

they don't really
know what's in it.

Of course, full disclosure.

It's not clear
what's in the plan.

(group chuckles and chatters)

We're still negotiating.

- Exactly, exactly.

No, that's exactly right.

And even when you look at
the child tax credit, right?

We did a poll, political
and morning consult,

and people weren't
giving Joe Biden credit

for the child tax credit,

despite the fact
that was something

that he has really,
really worked on,

and championed him and Vice
President Kamala Harris.

And so, I think the way
they're seeing this, as in,

I've talked to many
sources about this,

how are you guys going to sell
this to the American people?

And I know this sounds
gross and grimy,

but it's politics and
you have to tell people

what you're doing for them,
and they have to believe you.

And I think that's
something that

this White House
has struggled with,

that they're not giving you
credit for the child tax credit.

If they're not gonna,

are they gonna give you credit
for the reconciliation bill,

even if it changes
their life, right?

This is, if this bill passes,

whether it's 3.5 or
1.5 or 1.9 or 2.3,

that is more trillions of
dollars and has ever been pumped

into the U.S. economy
in this way, right?

And so if they have to have to
make sure they sell it to the

American people and
they know that, right?

These people have
been doing government

for a very long time.

And I think President Biden
though, has gone on the road.

We saw him doing it more, right?

He's been doing
it more and more,

but he has to
continue to do that.

Or the American people are
gonna shrug, take their money.

You know what I mean?

Take that tax cut and move on.

- And John, I want to give
you the last question.

You said that you were
open to going to space.

You can talk a little
bit about that.

- Yeah.

- But I also (chuckles)
wanted to just ask you a bit

about what you make of
this sort of argument

that's going on in Capitol Hill

about these sort of plans

and the present economic agenda,

and also this
criticism of space.

- Well, it certainly
suggests there is some

disposable income
(chuckles) available,

but on the space thing,

more than a decade ago,

when I was a Pentagon
Correspondent,

I had the opportunity
to do a story

about the U2
Reconnaissance plane.

And I went through,
wore a space suit,

which did training with
the pressurized chamber.

All of that went up to
the edge of the atmosphere

and did see that, you see
the curvature of the Earth,

the blueness of
Earth's atmosphere,

the utter darkness
of outer space.

And it does, I think, affect
the way you look at the world.

But we should say that
there's a big difference

with what Jeff Bezos is
doing through Blue Origin

and what Elon Musk is doing.

Elon Musk really wants to,
you know, break new ground

in space exploration.

This was kind of nice, you
know, William Shatner went up.

He did what, you know,
what Alan Shepard did,

you know, decades and
decades and decades ago.

But you know, Elon Musk wants
to have a shuttle to Mars.

And I don't know if
it's a crazy dream,

but he is talking about doing
something that would really

expand the human
knowledge of outer space.

And that, ultimately
should be something

that benefits mankind.

- Yeah, we'll have to
leave it there tonight.

It's such an interesting
conversation.

I didn't know that I had
two Space Correspondents,

(group laughs)

but thank you so much
to Stephanie, Leigh Ann,

Eugene and John for joining
us and sharing your reporting

and made sure to sign up for
the Washington Week Newsletter

on our website, we
will give you a look

at all things, Washington.

Thank you for joining us.

I'm Yamiche
Alcindor. Good night.

(upbeat music)