WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.130 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Hello. I'm Robert Costa. And this is the Washington Week Extra. 00:04.130 --> 00:09.570 align:start There may be another power struggle underway between the White House and the Pentagon. 00:09.570 --> 00:14.520 align:start Secretary of Defense James Mattis is reportedly appalled by the president's decision to 00:14.520 --> 00:18.290 align:start ban transgender people from serving in the military. 00:18.290 --> 00:22.770 align:start The unexpected announcement is also getting pushback from some Republican lawmakers. 00:22.770 --> 00:27.310 align:start Arizona Senator John McCain, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, criticized 00:27.310 --> 00:31.810 align:start the president for announcing the new policy, as he does, on Twitter. 00:31.810 --> 00:37.750 align:start Iowa Senator Joni Ernst, a 20-year military veteran, also spoke out, saying "Americans 00:37.750 --> 00:43.080 align:start who are qualified and can meet the standards to serve in the military should be afforded 00:43.080 --> 00:48.600 align:start that opportunity." The chairman of the Joint Chiefs has told his officers to stand down 00:48.600 --> 00:52.710 align:start until the secretary of defense receives the president's directive. 00:52.710 --> 00:57.970 align:start Chairman General Joseph Dunford told his staff "...we will continue to treat all of our 00:57.970 --> 01:04.050 align:start personnel with respect." Secretary Mattis had just begun a six-month review of how 01:04.050 --> 01:09.430 align:start transgender people affect military readiness. The question on everybody's mind, 01:09.430 --> 01:14.300 align:start Geoff, is why did the president get ahead of Secretary Mattis. 01:14.300 --> 01:17.490 align:start GEOFF BENNETT: There's some reporting out there that this decision was entirely a 01:17.490 --> 01:22.210 align:start political one, that the advisors to the president wanted Democrats in Rust Belt states to 01:22.210 --> 01:25.140 align:start really have to own this in the next election. 01:25.140 --> 01:29.920 align:start And I think the fact - the process, I think, actually bears out a lot of that reporting. 01:29.920 --> 01:34.620 align:start And I was speaking with a military veterans advocate who says if you go back and look at 01:34.620 --> 01:39.080 align:start that note that Dunford sent to his military chiefs, there's not a single line of support 01:39.080 --> 01:42.870 align:start in that - in that guidance for the president's ban. 01:42.870 --> 01:46.190 align:start And I'm told that was intentional, that everything that comes from the Joint Chiefs 01:46.190 --> 01:51.060 align:start office is vetted, and for good reason. And so there are issues there. 01:51.060 --> 01:54.630 align:start There are issues also with the process, that the military doesn't ever like to be in a 01:54.630 --> 01:57.270 align:start position of having to scramble, of having to play catch-up. 01:57.270 --> 02:00.760 align:start And from what we know, they were completely caught off-guard as it relates to this 02:00.760 --> 02:03.790 align:start guidance, that came by way of Twitter of all things. 02:03.790 --> 02:07.500 align:start NANCY CORDES: You know, this issue had been percolating because of this Hartzler 02:07.500 --> 02:11.700 align:start amendment in the House that had gone down a couple weeks earlier by a very narrow margin, 02:11.700 --> 02:16.510 align:start a Republican amendment to prevent transgender troops from getting taxpayer money for 02:16.510 --> 02:22.500 align:start gender reassignment surgery, so this was something that Republicans on the Hill had 02:22.500 --> 02:26.970 align:start talked about with the White House. But the most interesting take that I saw this 02:26.970 --> 02:30.180 align:start week - I can't claim credit for it - came from Rick Tyler, a Republican 02:30.180 --> 02:36.500 align:start strategist, who said that President Trump is obsessed with President Obama's legacy. 02:36.500 --> 02:42.410 align:start And the Republican Party has been engaged in a six-month process to try to roll back his 02:42.410 --> 02:46.600 align:start signature achievement, Obamacare, and they haven't been able to do it. 02:46.600 --> 02:52.450 align:start And in the absence of that, he argued that perhaps Donald Trump was striking out at 02:52.450 --> 02:58.340 align:start another piece of President Obama's legacy, which was allowing transgender troops in the 02:58.340 --> 03:03.990 align:start military, because it really did come out of nowhere. This is not something that anyone 03:03.990 --> 03:11.250 align:start was clamoring for. So it's hard to figure out where this - where the instinct for this 03:11.250 --> 03:17.620 align:start came from exactly. And the question now is, you know, what happens to these troops who 03:17.620 --> 03:22.540 align:start were told a year ago, you know, you are welcome in this military? 03:22.540 --> 03:25.470 align:start Do you now kick them out? That's the question. 03:25.470 --> 03:29.930 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Alexis, what's your read on what drove President Trump to make this 03:29.930 --> 03:33.700 align:start decision? Was it because of House conservatives saying they needed to have this 03:33.700 --> 03:39.830 align:start kind of policy to pass a budget, or was it because the president wanted to reenter 03:39.830 --> 03:42.600 align:start or enter the culture wars? 03:42.600 --> 03:45.720 align:start ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: Well, I think there's probably a little bit of all of that in there. 03:45.720 --> 03:50.160 align:start But I do think that one of the things that we've seen with the president is he did react 03:50.160 --> 03:55.010 align:start almost more robustly about this idea that the question that the Pentagon was really 03:55.010 --> 03:59.670 align:start wrestling with had to do with the finances, the actual expenditures, as Nancy is 03:59.670 --> 04:05.130 align:start suggesting, to support medical care, and the Pentagon's concern that at the - if they 04:05.130 --> 04:08.760 align:start kept this policy in place they were going to need some safeguards because they didn't 04:08.760 --> 04:14.680 align:start want to become a magnet for recruits or those who might want to sign up in order to have 04:14.680 --> 04:20.740 align:start this very expensive medical care provided to them. The president may have overreacted 04:20.740 --> 04:25.380 align:start in some way to that idea that this was something that they needed to do entirely. 04:25.380 --> 04:30.180 align:start But President Trump also does things where he then retreats and says we're going to study 04:30.180 --> 04:34.700 align:start this, and I would not be surprised if this ends up in a Pentagon study that goes on for 04:34.700 --> 04:38.980 align:start some additional period of time. The president has done that in the past, and we've seen 04:38.980 --> 04:43.360 align:start the Pentagon immediately say there is no change in policy, we're going to study it. 04:43.360 --> 04:47.420 align:start GEOFF BENNETT: But as he sort of does walk back into the culture wars, it strikes me as 04:47.420 --> 04:51.030 align:start a misread of cultural policies, you know, where we are in the moment and where we're 04:51.030 --> 04:56.790 align:start headed, because the core - Trump's core supporters weren't really, you know, won over by 04:56.790 --> 05:01.970 align:start sort of the traditional Christian conservative culture war. They bought into things like 05:01.970 --> 05:06.450 align:start his stances on immigration, his support for the police, manufacturing, jobs, that sort 05:06.450 --> 05:11.150 align:start of thing. So then to sort of use this as the issue to sort of get people behind him, 05:11.150 --> 05:13.540 align:start I think, doesn't necessarily work. 05:13.540 --> 05:18.770 align:start ROBERT COSTA: He did in his convention speech speak to the LGBT community and try to, in 05:18.770 --> 05:21.770 align:start a sense then, it seemed, make an overture to them. 05:21.770 --> 05:25.770 align:start NANCY CORDES: Yeah. And, you know, when you've got someone like Orrin Hatch, a 05:25.770 --> 05:32.330 align:start conservative Republican senator from Utah in his 80s, saying this is wrong, we need to 05:32.330 --> 05:38.450 align:start allow everyone in the military, you know, regardless of their gender identity, you 05:38.450 --> 05:42.880 align:start know, it's proof that this issue is - you know, does not come down neatly along the 05:42.880 --> 05:46.560 align:start same lines that it might have 10 or 15 years ago. 05:46.560 --> 05:51.210 align:start I think there could be an even simpler explanation for the origin of all of this, which 05:51.210 --> 05:57.420 align:start is just that this is a president who delights in creating shock and surprise. 05:57.420 --> 06:04.620 align:start And almost on a daily basis, he does something or says something which seems aimed purely 06:04.620 --> 06:09.700 align:start at getting a rise out of everyone, whether it's positive or negative. 06:09.700 --> 06:15.890 align:start And it's quite possible that that was just what he felt like shocking us with on Tuesday 06:15.890 --> 06:20.780 align:start or Wednesday or whatever it was, and he has now moved on to something else. 06:20.780 --> 06:25.070 align:start ROBERT COSTA: You say the shocks happen day by day. Sometimes it feels hour by hour. 06:25.070 --> 06:27.830 align:start NANCY CORDES: Not the best way to make policy, of course, but - 06:27.830 --> 06:31.180 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Well, we'll have to see how it all plays out. For sure, this will be 06:31.180 --> 06:36.350 align:start a challenge on the plate of the new chief of staff, John Kelly, who came in Friday. 06:36.350 --> 06:41.970 align:start Let's stay with Capitol Hill because both houses of Congress voted nearly unanimously to 06:41.970 --> 06:46.560 align:start impose new sanctions on Russia, Iran and North Korea. The Republican-controlled Congress 06:46.560 --> 06:51.070 align:start also voted to severely limit President Trump's ability to lift the sanctions, which he 06:51.070 --> 06:56.430 align:start has opposed. The move triggered Russia to seize two American diplomatic properties and 06:56.430 --> 07:01.440 align:start order the U.S. to cut its diplomatic staff in Russia. The president hasn't signed the 07:01.440 --> 07:06.100 align:start sanctions into law. And, Alexis, what's the holdup over at the White House? 07:06.100 --> 07:10.010 align:start ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: Well, one of the deliberations is - and I've seen this with previous 07:10.010 --> 07:13.720 align:start presidents - when you have the White House in the same party that the - where you're 07:13.720 --> 07:18.160 align:start getting rebuked in legislation, you have to decide, do I really want to see an override 07:18.160 --> 07:21.890 align:start of my veto? Because that is what lawmakers are saying would happen. 07:21.890 --> 07:25.870 align:start And in this particular case, after a string of disappointments and you could say 07:25.870 --> 07:30.900 align:start failures, is that really where the president wants to go on this particular issue, right? 07:30.900 --> 07:35.930 align:start And it's so sensitive. And it's just another example of what we saw on the Hill, where 07:35.930 --> 07:42.950 align:start Republicans were ready to try to ward off the Trump be Trump inclinations on Russia. 07:42.950 --> 07:48.200 align:start I mean, this was a(n) almost unanimous description of Congress rising up as the 07:48.200 --> 07:51.200 align:start legislative branch and saying, Mr. President, we're going to check you. 07:51.200 --> 07:54.390 align:start GEOFF BENNETT: And giving themselves an unprecedented role in oversight as it relates to 07:54.390 --> 07:57.220 align:start these sanctions. I mean, Republicans on the Hill by and large, and important 07:57.220 --> 08:01.600 align:start Republicans too, wanted to show publicly that they at least care about Russia's 08:01.600 --> 08:06.170 align:start role in the 2016 elections, and making the Kremlin pay for it. 08:06.170 --> 08:10.310 align:start NANCY CORDES: I mean, this was as much a message to the president, as Geoff and Alexis 08:10.310 --> 08:15.370 align:start have both pointed out, as it was to Russia. It passed 98 to 2 in the Senate. 08:15.370 --> 08:21.480 align:start I think it was 417 to 3 in the House. When do you ever see that kind of near unanimity? 08:21.480 --> 08:26.630 align:start And so, you know, the - it's almost a moot point whether the president tries - decides to 08:26.630 --> 08:34.730 align:start sign it or veto it, because they have, you know, well more than a veto-proof majority to 08:34.730 --> 08:37.800 align:start override anything that he tries to do. 08:37.800 --> 08:41.520 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Anthony Scaramucci, the new communications director, said in an interview 08:41.520 --> 08:45.660 align:start that the president may decide to avoid putting his signature on this legislation, because 08:45.660 --> 08:50.280 align:start he may push for his own, tougher sanctions. Does the White House really - are they 08:50.280 --> 08:54.480 align:start ready over there to pay the political cost of not signing this bill? 08:54.480 --> 08:57.870 align:start ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: Well, let me just first address the question, does the 08:57.870 --> 09:02.110 align:start communications director know a lot about legislating? The answer is no. 09:02.110 --> 09:06.660 align:start And so when I heard that, I didn't think he really understood exactly where Congress had 09:06.660 --> 09:10.440 align:start already gotten on this legislation and what the president's options were. So putting 09:10.440 --> 09:15.440 align:start that aside, are they ready to go into battle? I think the president is willing to 09:15.440 --> 09:21.010 align:start battle on anything. But is he going to get advice from his new chief of staff or 09:21.010 --> 09:25.690 align:start anyone else who's involved in this and the White House counsel? He's got a new counsel 09:25.690 --> 09:29.300 align:start coming in, as Ty Cobb is supposed to be the new special counsel coming into the White 09:29.300 --> 09:33.280 align:start House. And we haven't seen him start yet. 09:33.280 --> 09:37.200 align:start And I can, you know, tell you that a lot of people are going to listening to see what 09:37.200 --> 09:40.930 align:start kind of advice the president is getting from his outside team and his inside team. 09:40.930 --> 09:44.360 align:start GEOFF BENNETT: Coming, of course, with the backdrop of these active Russia 09:44.360 --> 09:48.500 align:start investigations happening in the House and the Senate and the special counsel probe, so 09:48.500 --> 09:52.580 align:start clearly there's a lot of dynamics here at play, you know, as the president makes up his 09:52.580 --> 09:55.140 align:start mind about what he's going to do about these sanctions. 09:55.140 --> 09:58.190 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Let's stay on the topic of Russia, because Congress is continuing its 09:58.190 --> 10:00.910 align:start investigation into meddling in last year's presidential election. 10:00.910 --> 10:05.530 align:start And this week two really high-ranking White House advisors were answering questions on 10:05.530 --> 10:08.950 align:start Capitol Hill about their meetings last June with a Russian attorney. 10:08.950 --> 10:11.730 align:start What did investigators learn? 10:11.730 --> 10:14.500 align:start GEOFF BENNETT: Well, we don't know exactly what they talked about. 10:14.500 --> 10:18.440 align:start But we know for sure they wanted to learn a lot more about that now-infamous 2016 meeting 10:18.440 --> 10:21.360 align:start that you mentioned, with a Russian attorney in Trump Tower. 10:21.360 --> 10:25.450 align:start So Paul Manafort, the president's one-time campaign chairman, and Jared Kushner, his 10:25.450 --> 10:30.760 align:start son-in-law and key advisor, met privately with the Senate Intelligence Committee. 10:30.760 --> 10:35.160 align:start And Kushner also met for hours in private with the House Intelligence Committee. 10:35.160 --> 10:40.050 align:start And of course, there was also this bit of drama with the Senate Judiciary panel issuing 10:40.050 --> 10:43.630 align:start a subpoena for Manafort to come testify publicly. 10:43.630 --> 10:47.190 align:start We learned later that that was really just their way of getting him to agree to come back 10:47.190 --> 10:51.160 align:start to the negotiating table to speak with them privately, because there's this sort of turf 10:51.160 --> 10:55.220 align:start war happening here with these several congressional committees trying to, you know, flex 10:55.220 --> 10:59.100 align:start their muscle and show that they're also relevant in this overall investigation. 10:59.100 --> 11:01.160 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And I said there were two White House advisors. 11:01.160 --> 11:04.540 align:start One former campaign advisor, Paul Manafort, one current advisor, Jared Kushner, the 11:04.540 --> 11:08.820 align:start senior advisor. Nancy, what was - what was Kushner's impact when he came to 11:08.820 --> 11:13.020 align:start Capitol Hill? He said he never colluded. He talked privately with the committee. 11:13.020 --> 11:16.470 align:start NANCY CORDES: Right. You know, he - I think that they felt that he was forthcoming. 11:16.470 --> 11:20.570 align:start He obviously sort of laid out all the facts for them. Obviously, they're going to 11:20.570 --> 11:25.310 align:start check his facts with the information that they have already gathered. 11:25.310 --> 11:31.200 align:start There's really two things that they're looking at as relates to Kushner and these four 11:31.200 --> 11:37.350 align:start Russia meetings that he has now acknowledged having with either Russian officials or 11:37.350 --> 11:41.450 align:start Russian - in one case a Russian lawyer, in one case a Russian banker. 11:41.450 --> 11:46.490 align:start One is what they discussed, whether there was anything that crossed the line. 11:46.490 --> 11:50.390 align:start Certainly it raises some eyebrows when Kushner says I asked the Russian ambassador if we 11:50.390 --> 11:55.870 align:start could set up a secure - go use the secure line at his embassy so that the Russian 11:55.870 --> 12:01.720 align:start government could give us information before the president had even taken office. 12:01.720 --> 12:07.500 align:start To which the Russians had to say, no, we can't do that. That crosses a line for us. 12:07.500 --> 12:09.490 align:start GEOFF BENNETT: That's a bridge too far. 12:09.490 --> 12:12.540 align:start NANCY CORDES: When the Russians are saying no, we can't - we can't do that, then, you 12:12.540 --> 12:15.980 align:start know, that's - you know, that's a sign that perhaps that's not that appropriate. 12:15.980 --> 12:21.260 align:start But beyond that, I think the question that they're trying to answer is, why was it that 12:21.260 --> 12:26.980 align:start he and other people in the president's orbit were so solicitous to the Russians in the 12:26.980 --> 12:32.270 align:start first place, above and beyond foreign dignitaries from any other country, from our 12:32.270 --> 12:39.420 align:start allies, especially after the intelligence community had just determined that Russia 12:39.420 --> 12:48.850 align:start massively interfered with our election, you know, using, you know, cyber and fake news 12:48.850 --> 12:55.590 align:start and all the rest. Why was it that - you know, that Kushner was willing to talk to 12:55.590 --> 12:58.680 align:start this Russian banker at the ambassador's request? 12:58.680 --> 13:02.360 align:start Why wasn't he meeting with - you know, with officials from other countries? 13:02.360 --> 13:06.960 align:start He did, but it certainly seems like Russia got special attention. 13:06.960 --> 13:11.360 align:start GEOFF BENNETT: And Kushner paints a picture of himself as a novice to politics at the 13:11.360 --> 13:17.610 align:start time, that the contacts he had with the Russians were just four among the thousands of 13:17.610 --> 13:21.750 align:start contacts that he had with foreigners. The same cannot be true - or the same cannot 13:21.750 --> 13:26.630 align:start be said, rather, about Paul Manafort, who has a very long lobbying and consulting 13:26.630 --> 13:30.640 align:start career, has well-known contacts to Russian politicians and businessmen. 13:30.640 --> 13:34.000 align:start He's a central figure in all of this. And it's one of the reasons why congressional 13:34.000 --> 13:37.550 align:start investigators have been clamoring to speak with him. The other reason why they want 13:37.550 --> 13:41.570 align:start to speak with him is because we know he took contemporaneous notes from that Trump Tower 13:41.570 --> 13:45.730 align:start meeting in 2016. And that will be crucial in understanding how all of this played out. 13:45.730 --> 13:49.650 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And, Alexis, of course, the White House's main concern is not really these 13:49.650 --> 13:52.900 align:start congressional committees, but Robert Mueller, the special counsel. 13:52.900 --> 13:56.270 align:start ALEXIS SIMENDINGER: Right. The White House is very - as we can see from the 13:56.270 --> 14:02.210 align:start president's own tweets and his own public statements, he is very animated about this, 14:02.210 --> 14:08.190 align:start and just refuses to put it aside and try to wall it off, or find a nice place to park 14:08.190 --> 14:12.690 align:start his anxiety, and it comes out all the time. And the concern is now the president's 14:12.690 --> 14:17.440 align:start heightened interest is that the special counsel is not deterred and is examining 14:17.440 --> 14:21.540 align:start the president's personal financial and his company financial affairs. 14:21.540 --> 14:26.840 align:start And of course, has asked the White House to retain and preserve all information related 14:26.840 --> 14:33.220 align:start to the meetings in 2016. And the president is just beside himself about this idea 14:33.220 --> 14:38.320 align:start that the special counsel can access his tax records, can access his business records, 14:38.320 --> 14:41.910 align:start and that they may actually want to question him. I wouldn't be surprised. 14:41.910 --> 14:44.240 align:start I think they're preparing for that. 14:44.240 --> 14:47.140 align:start NANCY CORDES: You know, I don't think these congressional investigations will ever get 14:47.140 --> 14:50.610 align:start out in front of the special counsel. You know, they are never going to uncover 14:50.610 --> 14:53.980 align:start something that the special counsel hasn't already found out about. 14:53.980 --> 14:58.460 align:start But the problem with the congressional investigations for this White House is the optics. 14:58.460 --> 15:03.100 align:start When Jared Kushner goes to meet with the special counsel, if he ever does, we won't know 15:03.100 --> 15:06.960 align:start about it. We won't see it. You know, he's not going to have to walk past a phalanx 15:06.960 --> 15:12.220 align:start of reporters and cameras to do it, the way that he has to when he comes to Capitol Hill. 15:12.220 --> 15:17.510 align:start You know, Don Jr. or Paul Manafort, testifying in public before a committee, you know, 15:17.510 --> 15:23.750 align:start has its own PR damage that comes with it and peril. 15:23.750 --> 15:29.590 align:start And the more you say publicly, if it contrasts with what you've said before or with 15:29.590 --> 15:33.200 align:start what's in other documents, it creates more problems. 15:33.200 --> 15:38.480 align:start And because members of Congress like a show and they like to get attention, you know, 15:38.480 --> 15:42.580 align:start every time that there's a new shoe to drop, as John McCain would say, you know, you've 15:42.580 --> 15:45.810 align:start got some member of Congress saying: Let's have a hearing. 15:45.810 --> 15:49.040 align:start Let's bring them forward and let's hear what they have to say. 15:49.040 --> 15:51.850 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We'll see who maybe comes up to the Hill next week, and we'll leave it 15:51.850 --> 15:54.470 align:start there. That's it for this edition of the Washington Week Extra. 15:54.470 --> 15:58.270 align:start While you're online, read my conversation with Bloomberg Reporter Josh Green. 15:58.270 --> 16:02.720 align:start His new book, dives into the relationship between President Trump and advisor Steve 16:02.720 --> 16:06.870 align:start Bannon. Plus, be sure to take the Washington Week-ly News Quiz. 16:06.870 --> 16:16.030 align:start I'm Robert Costa. See you next time.