WEBVTT 00:02.000 --> 00:05.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% It's been a week of legal whiplash in the high-stake battles over access to the abortion 00:07.200 --> 00:10.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% pill, Mifepristone, the most common form of abortion in the country. Late this afternoon, 00:10.300 --> 00:15.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito temporally restored access to the drug giving the high 00:17.333 --> 00:21.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% court more time to consider an emergency appeal filed by the Biden administration 00:21.000 --> 00:26.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and the drug's manufacturer. Alito's decision comes after a federal court ruling late last 00:27.833 --> 00:32.466 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% week sparked confusion and chaos in the medical community after a Texas judge 00:34.466 --> 00:37.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% invalidated Mifepristone's FDA approval. Joining me now to discuss all of this, 00:40.266 --> 00:43.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Sarah McCammon, National Correspondent for NPR, and with me here in studio, Leigh Ann Caldwell, 00:45.300 --> 00:49.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% co-Author of The Washington Post Early 202 and Anchor for Washington Post Live, 00:51.433 --> 00:54.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Carl Hulse is Chief Washington Correspondent for The New York Times, and Franco Ordonez 00:56.700 --> 01:00.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is a White House Correspondent for NPR. Welcome to you all. Thanks for joining us. 01:00.266 --> 01:05.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Sarah, let's begin with you because there is a lot of confusion over what this means, 01:07.700 --> 01:11.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% what all of this means in practical terms. So, walk us through what Justice Alito's decision now 01:13.600 --> 01:17.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% means at this moment for access to Mifepristone. Sarah McCammon, Correspondent, NPR: At this 01:20.000 --> 01:22.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% moment, the answer is easy because nothing has changed, but that is likely to change soon. So, 01:24.933 --> 01:28.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% in states where abortion is legal at this moment, abortion pills can still be prescribed as before, 01:28.233 --> 01:32.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% can still be sent through the mail, that is because of the Supreme Court decision, 01:32.400 --> 01:35.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the administrative stay that you mentioned that preserves the status quo, 01:35.866 --> 01:40.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that goes through next Wednesday night. And it came in response to a request from 01:42.866 --> 01:46.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the Biden administration for emergency relief in this case. Of course, we are talking about 01:48.200 --> 01:51.200 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% a case that has been working its way through the court system. It is about access to Mifepristone, 01:51.200 --> 01:56.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% which is an abortion that's been on the market more than 20 years is now used in a majority, 01:58.200 --> 02:01.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% it looks like, of most abortions in this country. And this all started with a challenge from 02:03.933 --> 02:06.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% anti-abortion rights groups who filed a lawsuit in Texas late last year, seeking to overturn the Food 02:09.133 --> 02:13.100 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and Drug Administration's approval of this drug. You mentioned that decision last Friday, a week 02:15.700 --> 02:18.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% ago, that the Texas judge for this case started, a federal judge appointed by former President Trump, 02:21.200 --> 02:23.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% issued an injunction that, as you said, created a lot of confusion and would have put on pause 02:25.933 --> 02:30.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% essentially that FDA approval for a time while the case was litigated. A series of maneuvers 02:32.233 --> 02:34.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% have been working their way to the courts the last week and, basically, where we have landed 02:34.966 --> 02:39.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is for the moment nothing has changed. But do not hold your breath because it likely will. 02:41.533 --> 02:44.333 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Amna Nawaz: So, that is succinctly as we can put it at this moment. 02:44.333 --> 02:48.666 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Carl, when you look at where the country is right now, we know, broadly speaking, 02:48.666 --> 02:53.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% when it comes to abortion access, the majority of Americans believe it should be legal in most 02:53.533 --> 02:57.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% cases, specifically when it comes to medication abortion too. These numbers were interesting 02:57.633 --> 03:02.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to me. 53 percent of adults say medication abortion should be legal in their state. 22 03:05.133 --> 03:08.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% percent say it should be illegal. About a quarter of those asked aren't sure. How does all of this 03:10.500 --> 03:13.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% square with the continued push we are seeing from Republicans and conservatives to restrict access? 03:13.133 --> 03:15.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Carl Hulse, Chief Washington Correspondent, The New York Times: I mean, you have a part 03:15.233 --> 03:19.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of the Republican Party that is just ardently anti-abortion and they're going to push on this 03:21.300 --> 03:25.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% no matter what the political consequences. But you do have part of the party that is 03:25.300 --> 03:30.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% very worried about this, that it is going to allow Democrats to continue to paint 03:32.266 --> 03:35.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Republicans as extremists on this issue. They point to the Trump judge who did this. 03:35.133 --> 03:40.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% I think that Congress is coming back next week. You're going to hear a lot of discussion 03:40.133 --> 03:45.133 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% about this. And I'm also watching the court very closely on this because this obviously a temporary 03:47.133 --> 03:50.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% respite. Does the court take the opportunity to lower temperature on this issue going forward, 03:52.566 --> 03:56.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% make some kind of decision that moves it away from the initial court ruling, 03:56.966 --> 04:01.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% or do they just go back at it themselves? So, Democrats, it's a serious issues, 04:03.900 --> 04:06.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but Democrats also see a big political advantage. Amna Nawaz: Franco, how is the White House 04:06.600 --> 04:11.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% looking at this? Because some of the criticisms we've heard is they have been slow and they've 04:11.566 --> 04:16.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% been reactive when it comes to addressing these restrictions. What are they saying at this point? 04:16.066 --> 04:18.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Franco Ordonez, White House Correspondent, NPR: I mean, they say they're ready for a fight. I mean, 04:18.233 --> 04:23.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Carl is pointing out how Democrats are painting these Republicans as radical extremists. The 04:25.266 --> 04:27.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% White House is doing the same thing. I was in touch with the White House just 04:27.400 --> 04:32.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% today talking about it. They're promising to fight vigorously about it. They're armed with 04:32.266 --> 04:37.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% just levels and levels of data. They sent me all these polls that kind of describe 04:39.333 --> 04:41.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% what you were saying about the numbers that Americans don't want the government 04:41.433 --> 04:45.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% interfering with their reproductive rights. But I agree with you, and I think you are right, 04:45.466 --> 04:49.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% particularly when it comes to Joe Biden and whether Biden is really going to kind of take 04:49.733 --> 04:54.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the mantle and kind of lead this. Kamala Harris has kind of been the face of this, 04:54.300 --> 04:59.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% but Biden has been an uneasy champion. He has got his catholic roots. It will be interesting 05:01.300 --> 05:05.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to see how hard he grasps this, because that is what Democrats certainly wanted to do. 05:07.966 --> 05:10.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Amna Nawaz: Leigh Ann, as you know, depending on which Republican you ask, you get a different 05:10.000 --> 05:13.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% answer sometimes or a non-answer and it comes to where they stand on abortion. I was struck 05:13.833 --> 05:17.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% by former Vice President Mike Pence's answer when he was asked about it in an interview 05:17.933 --> 05:21.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% just this morning on Fox and Friends. Mike Pence, Former U.S. Vice President: 05:21.166 --> 05:26.166 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I couldn't be more proud to have been a small part of an administration that appointed three 05:28.100 --> 05:31.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of the justices that overturned Roe v. Wade. Amna Nawaz: Where does a statement like that 05:33.666 --> 05:36.833 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% put Mr. Pence in particular among the field of potential contenders for 2024? 05:38.766 --> 05:40.866 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Leigh Ann Caldwell, Co-Author, The Early 202, The Washington Post: Yes. Mike Pence 05:40.866 --> 05:43.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% is really leaning into this issue. This is a good issue for him. This is his lane, 05:45.800 --> 05:48.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% his Christian social conservative, a Christian conservative, and this is where he wants to 05:50.700 --> 05:54.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% be and where he feels most comfortable. And he represents that faction of the Republican Party. 05:55.966 --> 05:59.700 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But this puts the entire Republican Party in a very difficult spot. And you can see 06:01.700 --> 06:05.300 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% that based on how presidential candidates or potential presidential candidates are 06:07.333 --> 06:10.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% responding. You have Mike Pence, on one hand. You have the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, 06:12.566 --> 06:15.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% who just signed a six-week ban in Florida late last night, and then you have likely candidate 06:18.466 --> 06:22.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, who came out this week with a -- supporting a 20-week ban, 06:25.000 --> 06:30.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% which is not far from the Roe v. Wade standard. And so that is symbolic of the dichotomy and the 06:33.100 --> 06:37.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% challenges that Republicans have on this. I talked to Republicans on Capitol Hill, 06:37.900 --> 06:42.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% and my sources tell me that the party does not have a message, they do not have a consistent 06:44.866 --> 06:47.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% message and they need to figure it out. Carl Hulse: Well, one of the things that 06:47.400 --> 06:51.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they are trying to do is to say, well, Democrats will have abortion at any point, 06:51.933 --> 06:56.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% right? That is their big pushback. But the polls show that people -- the majority of Americans by 06:58.866 --> 07:02.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% far want people to have some opportunity. Pence's comments struck me too because it 07:02.333 --> 07:06.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% does remind people how the Republicans packed the Supreme Court to get this 07:06.166 --> 07:11.166 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% overturned with putting Brett Kavanaugh but also holding that seat open. So, he says that, 07:14.133 --> 07:17.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% but Democrats see that in a different light. Amna Nawaz: And, Sara, speaking of the courts, 07:17.866 --> 07:21.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% we have to mention this is the first time the abortion issue has landed back before 07:21.333 --> 07:26.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% them since that June decision, in which they overturned Roe. Do we have any indication if they 07:28.333 --> 07:32.133 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are likely to take up the appeal in this case? Sarah McCammon: No. It is hard to say for sure 07:34.200 --> 07:38.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but a lot of court watchers have predicted that this would end up at the Supreme Court. Of course, 07:38.100 --> 07:42.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they just weighed in today on this request for a state, that they have not weighed in on the 07:42.033 --> 07:46.600 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% merits and we don't know when or if they will. But this is something that when I talked to 07:46.600 --> 07:50.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% anti-abortion rights groups that they really want the Supreme Court to weigh in on. I've 07:50.800 --> 07:54.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% heard from more than one organization that they think this is something that 07:54.933 --> 07:58.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% the court is poised to rule in their favor on. They look back at the Dobbs decision, 07:58.733 --> 08:03.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of course. And they welcome the opportunity, they tell me, for the court to resolve these 08:05.666 --> 08:08.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% questions they say at a national level. Amna Nawaz: Sarah, in the meantime, 08:08.100 --> 08:11.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I know you have been speaking with providers, as they have been following these legal decisions 08:11.433 --> 08:15.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and trying to ascertain what is going on. What are they telling you about the uncertain road ahead? 08:15.833 --> 08:20.033 align:left position:20% line:77% size:70% Sarah McCammon: Well, they've been - - a lot of them have been sort 08:20.033 --> 08:23.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% of looking at the laws in their states, looking at where they are in the map, 08:23.566 --> 08:25.833 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% trying to figure out what they can and cannot do, of course, 08:25.833 --> 08:29.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% looking at these conflicting decisions that have come first from the judge in Texas. 08:29.500 --> 08:34.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% And then there was another federal case in Washington State that we have not really 08:36.966 --> 08:39.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% talked about, but a group of attorneys general, Democratic attorneys general, sued in federal 08:39.900 --> 08:44.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% court in Washington to try to preserve access to Mifepristone. They also won this week. 08:47.433 --> 08:51.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And so it looks like there is a situation where you have one ruling applying, potentially applying 08:53.566 --> 08:55.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% in some states and not in others. Of course, with the Supreme Court stay, things stay as they are. 08:57.700 --> 09:00.766 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% But providers have been looking at where they are on that map, which states they are 09:00.766 --> 09:04.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% in and what policies might apply to them. I talked to some providers this week who 09:04.800 --> 09:09.333 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% are looking at pulling back all together from prescribing Mifepristone at least before the 09:09.333 --> 09:14.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Supreme Court's stay and others that were planning to plow forward, press forward, 09:14.033 --> 09:19.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% especially in states like Illinois that are part of that 18. So, it is a lot of uncertainty, 09:21.100 --> 09:24.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% both for providers and, of course, for patients. Amna Nawaz: That is Sarah McCammon, National 09:24.300 --> 09:28.500 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Correspondent for NPR. Sarah, thanks for joining us and sharing your reporting. 09:30.500 --> 09:34.533 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Well, those lower court rulings over abortion access highlight concerns over another priority 09:34.533 --> 09:39.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% for Democrats and the Biden administration, the push to confirm federal judgeships. Senator 09:41.933 --> 09:44.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Dianne Feinstein, the 89-year-old California Democrat, has been recovering from an illness 09:47.100 --> 09:49.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% since February and absent from her duties on the Judiciary Committee, which does confirm judges. 09:51.766 --> 09:55.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Leigh Ann, we have seen California Democratic Representative Ro Khanna now leading the calls 09:57.666 --> 10:02.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% for her to step down. He tweeted this earlier saying, it's time for Senator Feinstein to resign 10:04.566 --> 10:07.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and saying it is also obvious she can no longer fulfill her duties. It's worth noting her Senate 10:09.833 --> 10:14.000 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% seat is up next year. There are some really complicated dynamics at play, though, here. 10:14.000 --> 10:16.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Leigh Ann Caldwell: Yes, to say the least. There are a couple of issues here. 10:18.900 --> 10:22.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% It is complicated for Gavin Newsom, who would appoint a successor, should Dianne 10:24.833 --> 10:28.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Feinstein step down. Of course, Gavin Newsom is a Democrat. He will appoint a Democrat. That is 10:31.333 --> 10:33.966 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% not in question. But he has said that he wants to - - if he does do that, it would be a black woman. 10:33.966 --> 10:38.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Well, there are three high-level candidates who are already announced they are running for the 10:41.400 --> 10:44.766 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Senate seat. One is Representative Barbara Lee of California, and she is a black woman. And 10:46.833 --> 10:51.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% so it makes it -- Who Ro Khanna backs, by the way? So, it makes it very tricky. There is also 10:53.300 --> 10:57.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Adam Schiff and Katie Porter who are also in the race. So, there's the political problem. 10:57.066 --> 11:02.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And then there's the challenge for Democrats on Capitol Hill where Dianne Feinstein is on a very 11:04.600 --> 11:08.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% important committee, the Judiciary Committee, and her absence could cause problems down the road if 11:10.133 --> 11:14.433 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% she doesn't come back. Now, they are going to appoint someone temporarily perhaps, but 11:16.233 --> 11:18.266 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Carl has done a lot of reporting about it. Amna Nawaz: Well, Carl has -- I mean, 11:18.266 --> 11:20.733 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% they would argue -- some would argue it has created issues already. Her absences 11:20.733 --> 11:22.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% held up those judges' confirmation. Carl Hulse: They have not been able 11:22.966 --> 11:27.966 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% to advance the judges they want. It is such a fraught issue. Dianne is an icon. And to 11:30.466 --> 11:33.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% a lot of people looking at this, while you are pretty rudely ushering her out of the room here, 11:33.900 --> 11:37.900 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% so how do you deal with that, but we have to have her seat to move these judges. 11:37.900 --> 11:42.900 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Now, the solution that they've come up with is for her to temporarily step away and fill it. But 11:45.500 --> 11:48.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I am not 100 percent sure the Democrats are going to be able to fill that seat the way they think. 11:48.433 --> 11:53.400 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% This is going to require action by the Senate, and Republicans I am talking to already, they 11:55.933 --> 11:59.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% are not going public but they are saying, well, why should we make it easier for Democrats to go 12:01.766 --> 12:05.033 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% ahead and confirm these judges, who we honestly don't want? So, there is a lot to play out. 12:07.500 --> 12:10.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But I do think that these political dynamics are fascinating that she got into and why certain 12:12.766 --> 12:17.066 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% people are saying certain things is because they have their own horses in this race. 12:17.066 --> 12:20.933 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Amna Nawaz: Well, also if I can follow-up with you, this does open up the larger 12:20.933 --> 12:25.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% conversation to uncomfortable conversations many of us have been having for a long time 12:25.233 --> 12:30.233 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% about many older members of the Senate. How do you think this plays into all of that and 12:32.233 --> 12:35.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% also others? Mitch McConnell has been absent -- Carl Hulse: And into the presidential race. I 12:35.100 --> 12:40.100 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% think this has people really thinking about how long is too long. And, traditionally, 12:42.566 --> 12:45.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% you stayed in the Senate until you decided you are going to leave or the voters decided you needed to 12:47.566 --> 12:51.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% leave. So, I think this is -- it has put it front and center but there's not going to be like a 12:51.566 --> 12:56.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% change where it says you have to leave by certain age, but it has put the focus on this and I think 12:59.100 --> 13:01.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% we are going to see a lot of discussion about it. Leigh Ann Caldwell: Yes, absolutely. She is 89, 13:01.800 --> 13:06.800 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% but there is also Republicans who are also - - Chuck Grassley is nearing that age. 13:08.200 --> 13:09.700 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Carl Hulse: And talking about running again already. 13:09.700 --> 13:11.633 align:left position:10% line:83% size:80% Amna Nawaz: Right. Carl Hulse: I think he's filed, by the way. 13:11.633 --> 13:14.566 align:left position:10% line:77% size:80% Amna Nawaz: I feel like we will be having this conversation again at another point.