WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.020 align:start ROBERT COSTA: House Republicans pass a sweeping overhaul, but at what cost? 00:05.020 --> 00:10.050 align:start I'm Robert Costa. We take you inside the tax debate. Plus, Democratic Senator 00:10.050 --> 00:15.020 align:start Al Franken faces an ethics investigation and allegations continue to pile up 00:15.020 --> 00:19.600 align:start against Republican Senate contender Roy Moore, tonight on Washington Week. 00:19.600 --> 00:23.180 align:start HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL RYAN (R-WI): (From video.) This is about giving hardworking taxpayers 00:23.180 --> 00:25.750 align:start bigger paychecks, more take-home pay. 00:25.750 --> 00:28.850 align:start This is about giving those families who are struggling peace of mind. 00:28.850 --> 00:33.920 align:start ROBERT COSTA: The House passes a $1.5 trillion tax-cut package, scoring a momentary 00:33.920 --> 00:35.960 align:start victory for President Trump. 00:35.960 --> 00:38.800 align:start PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) Thank you. The tax is going really well. 00:38.800 --> 00:43.060 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But the path ahead in the Senate is more complicated, as GOP lawmakers add 00:43.060 --> 00:48.130 align:start the repeal of the federal insurance mandate. At least one Republican says he's opposed. 00:48.130 --> 00:51.020 align:start SENATOR RON JOHNSON (R-WI): (From video.) I'm not for the current version. 00:51.020 --> 00:54.230 align:start What I want to see is the information to prove the kind of economic growth we're going to 00:54.230 --> 00:57.030 align:start get with all of our tax provisions. 00:57.030 --> 01:01.780 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Democrats say the GOP plan is a gift to the rich that will raise taxes on 01:01.780 --> 01:06.690 align:start middle-income families and scale back health insurance coverage. Meanwhile - 01:06.690 --> 01:11.690 align:start ROY MOORE: (From video.) This is an effort by Mitch McConnell and his cronies to steal 01:11.690 --> 01:16.220 align:start this election from the people of Alabama, and they will not stand for it. 01:16.220 --> 01:20.500 align:start ROBERT COSTA: The tense fallout surrounding former Alabama Judge Roy Moore's 01:20.500 --> 01:24.340 align:start past and his potential future if elected to the Senate. 01:24.340 --> 01:27.480 align:start KAYLA MOORE: (From video.) He will not step down. 01:27.480 --> 01:32.040 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And Democratic Senator Al Franken faces an ethics investigation amid 01:32.040 --> 01:34.980 align:start accusations of sexual misconduct. 01:34.980 --> 01:40.440 align:start We discuss it all with Jackie Calmes of The Los Angeles Times, Jeremy Peters of The New 01:40.440 --> 01:46.690 align:start York Times, Nancy Cordes of CBS News, and Ed O'Keefe of The Washington Post. 01:46.690 --> 01:52.730 align:start ANNOUNCER: Celebrating 50 years, this is Washington Week. 01:52.730 --> 01:58.490 align:start Once again, live from Washington, moderator Robert Costa. 01:58.490 --> 02:03.500 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Good evening. After weeks of fits and starts, the House passed a tax-cut 02:03.500 --> 02:09.230 align:start bill on Thursday, moving President Trump and Republicans a step closer to their first 02:09.230 --> 02:14.200 align:start major legislative win of the year. The action, it now moves to the Senate, where there 02:14.200 --> 02:18.320 align:start are glimmers of trouble with Democrats and some resistance from Republicans. 02:18.320 --> 02:23.380 align:start The stakes are high, and the schedule is tight with Christmas the informal deadline. 02:23.380 --> 02:27.710 align:start Nancy, what's fascinating about what's happening right now on Capitol Hill, it's a return 02:27.710 --> 02:32.220 align:start to traditional fault lines, the core Republican values - tax cuts - versus the core 02:32.220 --> 02:35.630 align:start Democratic values. Is that really what's at the heart of this debate? 02:35.630 --> 02:38.980 align:start NANCY CORDES: Yeah, I mean, this is an old-school fight that was going on long before 02:38.980 --> 02:43.350 align:start Obamacare was even a word that had ever been uttered in the halls of Congress. 02:43.350 --> 02:49.650 align:start And it really came to a crescendo on Thursday night, when you had Orrin Hatch, a stalwart 02:49.650 --> 02:56.640 align:start Republican, and Sherrod Brown, a devoted liberal, finally, after 25 hours over four days 02:56.640 --> 03:01.360 align:start debating this GOP tax plan, they just decided to have it out. 03:01.360 --> 03:05.800 align:start And Brown made the case that all Democrats have been making, which is that this is a 03:05.800 --> 03:11.770 align:start giveaway to the wealthy, to corporations, that trickle-down economics doesn't work, and 03:11.770 --> 03:15.340 align:start that the middle class will eventually see its taxes going up. 03:15.340 --> 03:19.340 align:start While Orrin Hatch and the other Republicans on the panel say, no, no, all boats will be 03:19.340 --> 03:23.710 align:start lifted by this, this is going to put businesses in a better position, make them more 03:23.710 --> 03:26.470 align:start competitive, and that means more jobs for everybody. 03:26.470 --> 03:29.790 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Ed, what changes in this bill as it heads to the Senate - it seems like 03:29.790 --> 03:34.730 align:start one thing that may not change is the cut of the corporate rate from 35 percent to 20 percent. 03:34.730 --> 03:36.640 align:start ED O'KEEFE: That's in there. That's in - 03:36.640 --> 03:39.560 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Sometimes in Washington is what doesn't change that tells you a lot what 03:39.560 --> 03:41.550 align:start really the bill's all about. 03:41.550 --> 03:44.340 align:start ED O'KEEFE: Exactly. So that stays as-is in the House plan. 03:44.340 --> 03:48.130 align:start I think the two biggest things that will be seized upon in the coming weeks are the fact 03:48.130 --> 03:52.780 align:start that the Senate is adding a repeal of the individual mandate, the cornerstone of the 03:52.780 --> 03:58.550 align:start Affordable Care Act, to this bill, in part to generate some revenue and to make it easier 03:58.550 --> 04:03.520 align:start to pass in the Senate under the weird rules that they have to use in regards to how much 04:03.520 --> 04:07.950 align:start it can cost. There are a bunch of senators in both parties who said, wait guys, we 04:07.950 --> 04:12.140 align:start litigated this already. Why are we doing this again? However, most Republicans holding 04:12.140 --> 04:16.810 align:start firm to that idea. The other one that sticks out to me, that I think is going to be an 04:16.810 --> 04:21.700 align:start issue once they go back to the House with the compromise version, is that it would 04:21.700 --> 04:27.190 align:start eliminate all deductions for state and local taxes, or SALT, they call it. The House 04:27.190 --> 04:32.130 align:start compromise was that you can deduct $10,000 of your property taxes. The Senate doesn't 04:32.130 --> 04:36.930 align:start have that at all. This is partly because big, high-tax states, California, New York, 04:36.930 --> 04:41.800 align:start Illinois, New Jersey, Massachusetts, they don't have a Republican serving the Senate. 04:41.800 --> 04:46.100 align:start But in the House, there are almost three dozen Republicans representing suburban 04:46.100 --> 04:49.920 align:start communities in those states, who went to leaders and said: You cannot make me vote for 04:49.920 --> 04:54.850 align:start this or expect me to vote for it, and also see me get reelected. So those are the two, 04:54.850 --> 04:58.950 align:start I think, bigger ones. The other problem in the Senate, of course, is just the politics. 04:58.950 --> 05:03.890 align:start It's a narrow margin. And you've got three to six Republican senators whose votes 05:03.890 --> 05:06.960 align:start are still unknown at this point for various reasons. 05:06.960 --> 05:09.750 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But, Jackie, what does that mean, though, if that happens, if that 05:09.750 --> 05:12.180 align:start Obamacare mandate is repealed? 05:12.180 --> 05:15.790 align:start What does it mean if you're an American who counts on some of those subsidies or funding? 05:15.790 --> 05:20.160 align:start JACKIE CALMES: Well, it is the reason that the Joint Committee on Taxation has said that 05:20.160 --> 05:26.440 align:start people who make from $10(,000) to $30,000 a year will, in effect, not get a tax cut. 05:26.440 --> 05:32.820 align:start And people $75,000 and under eventually won't either, because they're losing that tax 05:32.820 --> 05:39.330 align:start credit for that health coverage and the subsidies. And, you know, the Republicans are 05:39.330 --> 05:44.740 align:start arguing, well, that's not really a tax increase for them because it's just making people, 05:44.740 --> 05:51.230 align:start as someone said, not having to pay for crappy health insurance. Well, but now they're 05:51.230 --> 05:55.760 align:start going to be uninsured. And so this comes back to all of us, where they're going to be 05:55.760 --> 05:59.240 align:start back in the emergency rooms to get their coverage. 05:59.240 --> 06:02.220 align:start They're not going to have insurance coverage to get their care. 06:02.220 --> 06:05.700 align:start And the rest of us are going to be paying higher premiums and higher costs in the 06:05.700 --> 06:10.560 align:start hospital because of the fact that these people will become, once again, what Republican 06:10.560 --> 06:15.580 align:start Senator Chuck Grassley used to call "free riders" back in the years when Republicans were 06:15.580 --> 06:20.520 align:start for an individual mandate, for the very reason that people had to take responsibility and 06:20.520 --> 06:22.970 align:start get health care coverage. 06:22.970 --> 06:28.020 align:start They were "free riders" because they were just going to ERs, or getting free health care. 06:28.020 --> 06:33.300 align:start So this is the - this is where the health care bill debate has gotten conflated with the 06:33.300 --> 06:39.090 align:start tax debate. But it is - it is - it affects costs of living and quality of life. 06:39.090 --> 06:42.260 align:start ROBERT COSTA: When you look at why they're intertwined, Jeremy, you got to ask the 06:42.260 --> 06:47.560 align:start question of why. Why are Republicans moving on health care, as well as moving on taxes? 06:47.560 --> 06:51.770 align:start Is it because the base wants it? You cover Breitbart and the base so closely. You 06:51.770 --> 06:55.730 align:start interviewed Steve Bannon recently. Are they clamoring for what's happening on Capitol Hill? 06:55.730 --> 07:01.620 align:start JEREMY PETERS: Not really. In the abstract, people like the idea of a tax cut. 07:01.620 --> 07:07.200 align:start But you see this poll that just came out from Quinnipiac the other day, 16 percent of 07:07.200 --> 07:10.050 align:start Americans think that it will actually cut their taxes. 07:10.050 --> 07:14.600 align:start That should frighten every Republican on Capitol Hill right now. 07:14.600 --> 07:18.900 align:start With regard to the health care mandate, though, the reason they're doing that - the 07:18.900 --> 07:22.830 align:start reason it's in the Senate bill, as Ed said, they need to pay for this somehow, right? 07:22.830 --> 07:28.650 align:start It's also satisfying to the base, to your point. They're - seven years went by. 07:28.650 --> 07:35.100 align:start Republicans said: Put us in the catbird seat. We will deliver. We will repeal Obamacare. 07:35.100 --> 07:39.390 align:start They tried. They failed. And it's still not clear to me that they'll be able to do it 07:39.390 --> 07:46.030 align:start next year. So they needed to have this in there as kind of a demonstration, OK, we'll 07:46.030 --> 07:52.580 align:start give it one more shot. In the end though, you don't hear many people talking about it. 07:52.580 --> 07:56.100 align:start It's not part of the conversation around the tax debate by and large, because most people 07:56.100 --> 07:58.470 align:start realize it's not going to happen. 07:58.470 --> 08:01.510 align:start NANCY CORDES: Right. And interestingly originally it was the president who said: 08:01.510 --> 08:04.540 align:start Hey, why don't you throw a repeal of the individual mandate in there? 08:04.540 --> 08:09.460 align:start That way you can bring the top rate down from 39.5 percent to 35 percent. 08:09.460 --> 08:13.250 align:start Republicans balked at that because they said we're already getting slammed for making 08:13.250 --> 08:16.110 align:start this a big boon to the wealthy. 08:16.110 --> 08:19.660 align:start Getting rid of the individual mandate which, by and large, as Jackie pointed out, helps 08:19.660 --> 08:24.290 align:start low income people - and then doing that to bring rich people's taxes down is not going to 08:24.290 --> 08:31.860 align:start fly. But they decided what we can do is bump up the tax cut for middle-income Americans and 08:31.860 --> 08:36.900 align:start double the tax - the child tax credit. And so that's what that money is going towards. 08:36.900 --> 08:42.320 align:start And trying to lift it out at this point would really put them in a big fiscal bind. 08:42.320 --> 08:46.900 align:start JACKIE CALMES: But Jeremy pointed out that the reason they did this was not just to 08:46.900 --> 08:53.690 align:start salvage their promise to repeal Obamacare, but to get the money from not paying out those 08:53.690 --> 08:58.690 align:start subsidies anymore so they could pay for more tax cuts. Even so, the fact remains that 08:58.690 --> 09:04.340 align:start these bills will add $1.5 trillion over 10 years in the first 10 years to the debt. 09:04.340 --> 09:08.500 align:start JEREMY PETERS: I thought they were going to pay for themselves. Isn't that - isn't that the theory? 09:08.500 --> 09:11.940 align:start JACKIE CALMES: Oh, yeah, find me a credible economist that believes that - yeah. 09:11.940 --> 09:15.800 align:start JEREMY PETERS: Right. I saw Larry Summers today doing an interview saying that it's 09:15.800 --> 09:19.900 align:start just a fantasy to assume that these tax cuts will generate so much growth that they 09:19.900 --> 09:23.560 align:start will somehow magically pay for themselves. I think that they will generate - you know, 09:23.560 --> 09:27.150 align:start in a perfect-case scenario, yes, generate some economic growth, but this - 09:27.150 --> 09:30.550 align:start JACKIE CALMES: And they've done this to get more money for tax cuts. And yet, the 09:30.550 --> 09:35.810 align:start tax cuts for individuals expire in 2025, when the corporate tax cuts are permanent. 09:35.810 --> 09:37.490 align:start ROBERT COSTA: In the Senate plan. 09:37.490 --> 09:39.130 align:start JACKIE CALMES: In the Senate plan. 09:39.130 --> 09:41.510 align:start ED O'KEEFE: And you know what the Democrats are doing when Republicans voted for this, 09:41.510 --> 09:44.450 align:start when the tally was called? Bye-bye. 09:44.450 --> 09:46.470 align:start ROBERT COSTA: They really think this is going to cause a wave? 09:46.470 --> 09:49.870 align:start ED O'KEEFE: Because they are convinced this is going to cause a huge wave. You've now 09:49.870 --> 09:54.480 align:start combined raising taxes potentially on lower-income and middle-income Americans plus, in the 09:54.480 --> 09:59.440 align:start Senate, you're causing, once again, the unpopular prospect of ending the individual mandate. 09:59.440 --> 10:03.980 align:start ROBERT COSTA: But, Ed, if you're Bob Casey, senator, Democrat from Pennsylvania, or Joe 10:03.980 --> 10:06.980 align:start Donnelly, in a state Trump won big, why aren't you tempted at least to vote - 10:06.980 --> 10:11.770 align:start ED O'KEEFE: Because - and trust me, they are tempted to help make a deal. 10:11.770 --> 10:15.100 align:start They are eager and willing to sit with Republicans and do it. But now, especially 10:15.100 --> 10:18.200 align:start that the individual mandate repeal has been added back, they say no deal. 10:18.200 --> 10:22.860 align:start No way, because look at the polling just a few weeks ago in Virginia, New Jersey, and all 10:22.860 --> 10:26.790 align:start those other local races across the country. What is now the number-one domestic concern? 10:26.790 --> 10:32.020 align:start Preserving or messing too much with health care. Democrats know it is a rallying issue for them. 10:32.020 --> 10:35.550 align:start NANCY CORDES: And, frankly, they have not been part of these negotiations in a serious 10:35.550 --> 10:40.270 align:start way from the very beginning, because Republicans believe that they can pass this tax plan 10:40.270 --> 10:45.400 align:start without Democrats. And so, you know, Democrats offered God knows how many amendments 10:45.400 --> 10:50.690 align:start over the past week in the Senate Finance Committee. And zero were approved. 10:50.690 --> 10:54.870 align:start So there's no incentive on the Republicans' part to negotiate with Democrats. 10:54.870 --> 10:58.120 align:start And therefore, no incentive for Democrats to support this plan. 10:58.120 --> 11:01.200 align:start ROBERT COSTA: What about the deficit hawks? You look at Senator Flake, Senator Corker. 11:01.200 --> 11:04.280 align:start They've broken with President Trump and they don't like the way this bill adds more than 11:04.280 --> 11:06.510 align:start a trillion dollars to the deficit. 11:06.510 --> 11:10.040 align:start JEREMY PETERS: Senator Lankford of Oklahoma is also concerned about this. That's exactly 11:10.040 --> 11:15.170 align:start right, because they understand the hypocrisy of it. These are guys who ran on a message 11:15.170 --> 11:19.140 align:start of tea party fiscal austerity. And now they're talking about adding trillions and 11:19.140 --> 11:23.100 align:start trillions and trillions to the debt by passing this massive tax cut. 11:23.100 --> 11:28.760 align:start They understand that it's bad politics. And not only is it bad politics, but voters 11:28.760 --> 11:31.950 align:start don't seem to understand what they're getting out of this. 11:31.950 --> 11:35.070 align:start Republicans feel like they'll be punished if they don't pass something. 11:35.070 --> 11:38.110 align:start So they need to pass something, or so they've told themselves. 11:38.110 --> 11:42.080 align:start But I'm not sure, Bob, that the benefit of passing anything is really all that great 11:42.080 --> 11:46.860 align:start because, as Nancy pointed out, the public really doesn't feel - they're not asking for a 11:46.860 --> 11:51.410 align:start tax cut. They want their health care. They want a job. They want their country 11:51.410 --> 11:55.740 align:start not to be nuked by North Korea. Four percent of people in the last poll that I 11:55.740 --> 11:58.700 align:start saw listed tax cuts as their major concern. 11:58.700 --> 12:03.630 align:start JACKIE CALMES: Well, if I could just add to that, it's just the - this is a corporate 12:03.630 --> 12:08.360 align:start tax cut. That's what it is. And when you - to your argument at the very outset of 12:08.360 --> 12:12.920 align:start this discussion that this is a traditional tax debate, and right up Republicans' 12:12.920 --> 12:18.510 align:start alley, that this was - the fact it's not what Donald Trump promised. 12:18.510 --> 12:22.250 align:start He promised a very populist plan that would - for individuals. 12:22.250 --> 12:27.590 align:start And I would just - Jeremy, bringing up the deficit - in 2025, when individual tax cuts 12:27.590 --> 12:32.170 align:start expire and people - and all the Republicans are saying: Oh, they'll be extended. 12:32.170 --> 12:36.800 align:start They're not going to let taxes go up for people. The debt, the federal debt in 2025 will 12:36.800 --> 12:42.330 align:start be $25 billion (sic; trillion), even without this tax cut, which is 90 percent of GDP. 12:42.330 --> 12:45.980 align:start NANCY CORDES: And of course, the big Democratic concern is that this just phase one. 12:45.980 --> 12:51.940 align:start Phase two is next year Republicans say, oh, look at what a hole we've now put in the 12:51.940 --> 12:56.130 align:start budget with these tax cuts. Now we need to start cutting services. Now we need to 12:56.130 --> 13:00.470 align:start start cutting Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. And that's the fear. 13:00.470 --> 13:03.530 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We're going to keep a close eye on all this. We'll have to see if 13:03.530 --> 13:07.970 align:start they actually can get it done by the holiday. I'm not planning any vacation. 13:07.970 --> 13:11.530 align:start I don't know about all of you. (Laughter.) For the moment, though, let's turn 13:11.530 --> 13:15.460 align:start to another controversy on Capitol Hill. Not as - more controversial than taxes. 13:15.460 --> 13:18.910 align:start This is Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore. 13:18.910 --> 13:24.250 align:start The former Alabama judge continues to deny the allegations against him as more women come 13:24.250 --> 13:29.470 align:start forward accusing him of inappropriate sexual advances and misconduct over the past 30 13:29.470 --> 13:34.030 align:start years. During a news conference in Birmingham, Moore accused Senate Leader 13:34.030 --> 13:38.160 align:start Mitch McConnell of trying to steal the election from the voters of Alabama. 13:38.160 --> 13:42.730 align:start McConnell said he believes Moore's accusers, and suggested that the Republican Senate 13:42.730 --> 13:48.840 align:start candidate would face an ethics probe if he were elected. Jeremy, I want to pull up 13:48.840 --> 13:52.410 align:start something you wrote, because it tells me so much about where we are. And this is in 13:52.410 --> 13:56.200 align:start The New York Times. There was a time, you wrote, when the question of whether to disown 13:56.200 --> 14:01.160 align:start a candidate accused of sexually abusing a 14-year-old girl was fairly straightforward, 14:01.160 --> 14:06.350 align:start but the divisions in the Republican Party run so deep that it's now become a proxy fight. 14:06.350 --> 14:10.250 align:start And that's what I want to talk about with you, is that this fight - this question about 14:10.250 --> 14:14.450 align:start Roy Moore, it has now become something about the base of the party versus McConnell; it's 14:14.450 --> 14:16.420 align:start not so much about Moore. 14:16.420 --> 14:19.770 align:start JEREMY PETERS: No, it's not. Roy Moore is just a stand-in character - we've seen 14:19.770 --> 14:26.160 align:start this happen in race after race - for the anti-establishment. He represents to them 14:26.160 --> 14:32.970 align:start a - the base - he represents to the base a big middle finger to Mitch McConnell, and 14:32.970 --> 14:38.920 align:start that's basically what you have here. It's what Donald Trump was, to a much larger degree. 14:38.920 --> 14:47.360 align:start So I think that what Roy Moore can do is get - what he is doing is once again kind of 14:47.360 --> 14:53.950 align:start resetting the parameters of civility and lowering the bar in terms of what Americans will 14:53.950 --> 15:00.140 align:start expect from the candidates that they elect, and this is really bad. 15:00.140 --> 15:06.100 align:start I mean, somebody who is accused - some very credible accusations - of being essentially a 15:06.100 --> 15:10.860 align:start sexual predator, and there are enough voters out there in Alabama who are saying, you 15:10.860 --> 15:15.190 align:start know what, we hate Republican leadership so much that that's our guy. 15:15.190 --> 15:18.940 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And the Democrat, Doug Jones, is gaining. 15:18.940 --> 15:22.770 align:start NANCY CORDES: Right. And Republicans on Capitol Hill I've spoken to have said that 15:22.770 --> 15:27.980 align:start really the only thing they think at this point can get to Moore or to the Republican 15:27.980 --> 15:33.040 align:start Party leadership in Alabama, which is still backing him, is if President Trump were 15:33.040 --> 15:35.320 align:start really to step in in a meaningful way. 15:35.320 --> 15:37.530 align:start ROBERT COSTA: He's not, though. He's staying out of it. 15:37.530 --> 15:41.060 align:start NANCY CORDES: But he is not. I've shouted many questions to him this week about 15:41.060 --> 15:44.700 align:start whether he believed Moore's accusers, whether he thought Moore should get out of the 15:44.700 --> 15:47.960 align:start race, and I know a lot of other reporters did too, and he just wouldn't touch it. 15:47.960 --> 15:50.760 align:start It was one time he did not want to talk to the microphones. 15:50.760 --> 15:54.970 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Ed, the challenge for McConnell right now is pretty big. 15:54.970 --> 16:00.190 align:start Governor Ivey, a female governor, Republican, of Alabama, says she supports Moore. 16:00.190 --> 16:03.710 align:start She's not going to call some kind of different election or ask Senator Luther Strange to 16:03.710 --> 16:06.680 align:start resign. It seems like his hands are tied, McConnell's hands. 16:06.680 --> 16:10.030 align:start ED O'KEEFE: They totally are. You either spark this fight that just infuriates 16:10.030 --> 16:14.830 align:start the base in Alabama even more to vote for Roy Moore, or - and then he comes to 16:14.830 --> 16:20.720 align:start the Senate. And by McConnell's estimation, he then faces an ethics probe. 16:20.720 --> 16:25.800 align:start So, for potentially the next year, you immediately have a freshman senator facing all 16:25.800 --> 16:30.040 align:start sorts of salacious allegations that the press and the public will want to hear about. 16:30.040 --> 16:32.370 align:start JEREMY PETERS: And that the Democrats will run on. 16:32.370 --> 16:35.380 align:start ED O'KEEFE: And they will run on it. And that's the other thing, he will immediately 16:35.380 --> 16:38.680 align:start become a poster child for the Republican Party, and every other Senate candidate across 16:38.680 --> 16:42.740 align:start the country will say, you know, X - Senator X stands with Roy Moore, how can you 16:42.740 --> 16:47.170 align:start vote for this party. Flip side, gets even worse - chamber becomes even more narrowly 16:47.170 --> 16:52.170 align:start divided if Doug Jones wins, 51-49. It'll become even more impossible to pass 16:52.170 --> 16:56.160 align:start significant legislation. It is not a good time to be Mitch McConnell. 16:56.160 --> 17:01.200 align:start JACKIE CALMES: Well, you know, the irony here is that Mitch McConnell is the villain in 17:01.200 --> 17:06.550 align:start this to the Moore supporters, and yet you mentioned the governor of Alabama. 17:06.550 --> 17:08.290 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Kay Ivey. 17:08.290 --> 17:11.970 align:start JACKIE CALMES: She said explicitly that the reason she's going to support him is - vote 17:11.970 --> 17:16.650 align:start for him is because she thinks we need to have a Republican Senate in order to confirm 17:16.650 --> 17:20.030 align:start judges and get more Neil Gorsuches on the Court. 17:20.030 --> 17:25.070 align:start The irony here is that Neil Gorsuch would not be on the Court but for Mitch McConnell, 17:25.070 --> 17:30.820 align:start who held that seat open for an entire year by not giving Barack Obama a vote. 17:30.820 --> 17:36.410 align:start And I have to say I've continued to this day to be puzzled as to why the conservative 17:36.410 --> 17:41.720 align:start right, the Evangelical right, does not give Mitch McConnell more credit. 17:41.720 --> 17:44.440 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Well, because it's become this proxy war. 17:44.440 --> 17:48.280 align:start NANCY CORDES: He can make - he can make a credible case that he's a big reason that 17:48.280 --> 17:53.450 align:start President Trump got elected, because in the suburbs of Philadelphia and other cities 17:53.450 --> 17:59.730 align:start Republicans who are moderates and might not have liked Donald Trump very much went to the 17:59.730 --> 18:03.750 align:start polls and voted for him anyway because they said, well, this is about the Supreme Court. 18:03.750 --> 18:07.430 align:start There is an opening on the Supreme Court, and that was all engineered by Mitch McConnell. 18:07.430 --> 18:10.360 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Doug Jones, the Democrat, does he really have a chance? 18:10.360 --> 18:15.240 align:start ED O'KEEFE: Looks like it. There was a - one of the best we call them live-caller 18:15.240 --> 18:20.620 align:start polls done this week by - on behalf of Fox News by a bipartisan firm found him ahead. 18:20.620 --> 18:25.480 align:start And also, curiously, if you dive into the numbers, if you look at the favorability 18:25.480 --> 18:29.400 align:start ratings for the president, for Jeff Sessions, for Luther Strange - the incumbent who lost 18:29.400 --> 18:33.390 align:start the primary - and for former President Barack Obama, of all those guys, who has the best 18:33.390 --> 18:37.240 align:start numbers in the state of Alabama right now? Apparently, former President Obama. 18:37.240 --> 18:40.420 align:start JEREMY PETERS: But doesn't that make you think that the poll is kind of suspect? 18:40.420 --> 18:46.080 align:start I had somebody raise some red flags to me - not that I think by any means - well, I don't 18:46.080 --> 18:52.520 align:start know. Think about it this way. If you are an Alabamian, right now you're - and you're 18:52.520 --> 18:56.470 align:start inclined to vote for Moore, you're probably changing your mind day to day. 18:56.470 --> 19:00.880 align:start Do I believe The Washington Post? Sorry, Ed. (Laughter.) Do I want - 19:00.880 --> 19:03.730 align:start NANCY CORDES: Bernie Bernstein. 19:03.730 --> 19:08.100 align:start JEREMY PETERS: - to give Mitch McConnell a victory, or do I want to stand by the guy 19:08.100 --> 19:12.060 align:start that I know will stand up to the very political system that I feel has disenfranchised me? 19:12.060 --> 19:14.970 align:start ROBERT COSTA: So it becomes a political calculation more than about the accusations of 19:14.970 --> 19:17.280 align:start women who are putting their names on the accusations. 19:17.280 --> 19:19.670 align:start JEREMY PETERS: Right. I think it's entirely political. 19:19.670 --> 19:23.180 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Let's stick with this topic, because while the president has avoided 19:23.180 --> 19:28.440 align:start publicly addressing the allegations against Moore, he didn't shy away from commenting on 19:28.440 --> 19:33.900 align:start the explosive accusations of sexual harassment against Democratic Senator Al Franken. 19:33.900 --> 19:39.330 align:start Radio host and former model Leeann Tweeden says the Minnesota senator and former SNL 19:39.330 --> 19:46.030 align:start comedian forcibly kissed her and groped her while the two were part of an overseas USO 19:46.030 --> 19:52.190 align:start tour a decade ago. Franken issued an apology that said in part, "I don't know what was 19:52.190 --> 19:56.440 align:start in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. 19:56.440 --> 19:59.440 align:start I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. 19:59.440 --> 20:05.040 align:start What's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it." Franken 20:05.040 --> 20:09.170 align:start has promised to cooperate with an ethics committee investigation. 20:09.170 --> 20:14.320 align:start Hours later, President Trump commented on the accusations via Twitter, writing, "The Al 20:14.320 --> 20:18.900 align:start Frankenstein picture is really bad, speaks a thousand words." 20:18.900 --> 20:22.730 align:start Nancy, you've been - you've been covering this all week. The fallout for Franken? 20:22.730 --> 20:27.070 align:start He's still there, but it shows both parties have been implicated in this national 20:27.070 --> 20:30.700 align:start debate/discussion about the important issue of sexual conduct. 20:30.700 --> 20:34.630 align:start NANCY CORDES: Absolutely, and senators from both sides were pretty quick to come out and 20:34.630 --> 20:39.920 align:start say that he was right to apologize, that it was disgusting what he did, and that they 20:39.920 --> 20:44.440 align:start believed his accuser, and that they supported an ethics investigation. 20:44.440 --> 20:49.140 align:start I think the question when it comes to his future in the Senate is, A, does anyone else 20:49.140 --> 20:53.000 align:start come forward; and, B, what's his record in the Senate? 20:53.000 --> 20:58.980 align:start We called around to more than a dozen of his former staffers, and all of them said that 20:58.980 --> 21:04.390 align:start he had always behaved professionally around them, that he was very supportive of women, 21:04.390 --> 21:08.650 align:start very appropriate around women, and that they felt that he was a good boss. 21:08.650 --> 21:10.530 align:start So, obviously, that's going to - 21:10.530 --> 21:12.170 align:start JACKIE CALMES: A number of them put out a public statement. 21:12.170 --> 21:14.140 align:start ED O'KEEFE: Eight of them, yeah. 21:14.140 --> 21:16.550 align:start NANCY CORDES: Exactly. So they've come out - you know, they've come out in support of 21:16.550 --> 21:18.850 align:start him, and so far no one else has made an accusation against him. 21:18.850 --> 21:21.420 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And it's gone beyond Franken on the Democratic side. 21:21.420 --> 21:25.880 align:start Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York told The New York Times, I believe, that now she 21:25.880 --> 21:30.200 align:start believes President Bill Clinton should have resigned over the Monica Lewinsky incident in 21:30.200 --> 21:33.820 align:start the late '90s, and that's been revived as an issue on the Democratic side. 21:33.820 --> 21:38.350 align:start JACKIE CALMES: Right, and it was revived a year ago by then-candidate Trump when he was 21:38.350 --> 21:44.740 align:start trying to distract from the allegations against him. You know, it's fair game, but 21:44.740 --> 21:51.870 align:start it's - going back that far, it's - you know, the one good thing about it is going back 21:51.870 --> 21:57.390 align:start that far it shows that this isn't just a recent phenomenon, so that is good. 21:57.390 --> 22:01.540 align:start It's also not just about politics, because this actually started with Harvey Weinstein 22:01.540 --> 22:05.540 align:start and then - you know, and it's gotten people in sports, in business. 22:05.540 --> 22:09.970 align:start I'm sure Nancy and I could share notes. We could tell you this is not 22:09.970 --> 22:13.500 align:start just - this is not just in politics, although it is in politics. 22:13.500 --> 22:15.790 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And it's pretty bad in politics. 22:15.790 --> 22:17.500 align:start JACKIE CALMES: It is. 22:17.500 --> 22:19.780 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We saw in a hearing this week they've spent millions on settlements on 22:19.780 --> 22:21.760 align:start harassment cases on Capitol Hill. 22:21.760 --> 22:25.120 align:start JACKIE CALMES: Right. But I would say - and Ed may know better than I - that list of 22:25.120 --> 22:28.470 align:start settlements that got a lot of play on social media turns out to be a list of 22:28.470 --> 22:34.780 align:start settlements paid out for cases against members of Congress, but it's not just sex 22:34.780 --> 22:39.440 align:start harassment. It's a variety of cases that include wage and hour disputes, family 22:39.440 --> 22:44.820 align:start leave, disability. So we don't know how much of that is about sexual harassment. 22:44.820 --> 22:47.350 align:start ED O'KEEFE: I think we need to keep one thing in mind here. 22:47.350 --> 22:54.400 align:start This is - it is quite amazing, first of all, how quickly the Senate closed ranks on 22:54.400 --> 22:58.500 align:start Franken and said this is unacceptable and you're going to face an ethics probe. 22:58.500 --> 23:03.750 align:start This was sparked because earlier in the week McConnell had said if Roy Moore gets elected 23:03.750 --> 23:07.610 align:start to the Senate we will immediately launch an ethics committee investigation, so the precedent 23:07.610 --> 23:11.900 align:start had been set. He knew right away if it's that way for Roy Moore it has to be that way 23:11.900 --> 23:15.420 align:start for Al Franken. But there's a bigger point I want to make. I want to make this point. 23:15.420 --> 23:20.820 align:start Early in the week, McConnell, without fail, without hesitation, made very clear I believe 23:20.820 --> 23:25.890 align:start the women. He doesn't like Roy Moore. He doesn't want to see Roy Moore in the Senate. 23:25.890 --> 23:30.200 align:start He's doing everything he can to stop him. But I think seeing one of the most senior 23:30.200 --> 23:34.890 align:start political leaders in this country very clearly say I believe the accusers was a 23:34.890 --> 23:38.680 align:start watershed moment, and something that I think allowed very quickly for what to 23:38.680 --> 23:42.360 align:start unfold this week, where just about every other lawmaker said I agree with the - 23:42.360 --> 23:44.110 align:start JEREMY PETERS: Well, I hate to be the cynic here - 23:44.110 --> 23:48.030 align:start JACKIE CALMES: Can we - can we not forget, though, that this is about child molestation allegations, too? 23:48.030 --> 23:49.610 align:start ED O'KEEFE: Well, in the case of Roy Moore. 23:49.610 --> 23:51.220 align:start JACKIE CALMES: Roy Moore, yes. 23:51.220 --> 23:53.590 align:start JEREMY PETERS: I hate to be the cynic here, but ultimately this is all political. 23:53.590 --> 23:55.640 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Well, everything is politics. (Laughter.) 23:55.640 --> 23:57.520 align:start JEREMY PETERS: McConnell would not have come out and - 23:57.520 --> 23:59.890 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We're going to get - we'll get to this on the webcast. (Laughter.) 23:59.890 --> 24:02.840 align:start We're going to have to leave it there. Thanks, everybody, for being here. I appreciate 24:02.840 --> 24:05.630 align:start it, as always. And our conversation will continue online, as I said, on the 24:05.630 --> 24:08.750 align:start Washington Week Extra, where we'll tell why millions of dollars in taxpayer money 24:08.750 --> 24:12.330 align:start has been spent on settlements, including harassment suits, against those lawmakers. 24:12.330 --> 24:17.080 align:start You can find that later tonight and all weekend long at PBS.org/WashingtonWeek. 24:17.080 --> 24:25.530 align:start I'm Robert Costa, and I wish you and your family a Happy Thanksgiving.