1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,020 ROBERT COSTA: House Republicans pass a sweeping overhaul, but at what cost? 2 00:00:05,020 --> 00:00:10,050 I'm Robert Costa. We take you inside the tax debate. Plus, Democratic Senator 3 00:00:10,050 --> 00:00:15,020 Al Franken faces an ethics investigation and allegations continue to pile up 4 00:00:15,020 --> 00:00:19,600 against Republican Senate contender Roy Moore, tonight on Washington Week. 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,180 HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL RYAN (R-WI): (From video.) This is about giving hardworking taxpayers 6 00:00:23,180 --> 00:00:25,750 bigger paychecks, more take-home pay. 7 00:00:25,750 --> 00:00:28,850 This is about giving those families who are struggling peace of mind. 8 00:00:28,850 --> 00:00:33,920 ROBERT COSTA: The House passes a $1.5 trillion tax-cut package, scoring a momentary 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,960 victory for President Trump. 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,800 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) Thank you. The tax is going really well. 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,060 ROBERT COSTA: But the path ahead in the Senate is more complicated, as GOP lawmakers add 12 00:00:43,060 --> 00:00:48,130 the repeal of the federal insurance mandate. At least one Republican says he's opposed. 13 00:00:48,130 --> 00:00:51,020 SENATOR RON JOHNSON (R-WI): (From video.) I'm not for the current version. 14 00:00:51,020 --> 00:00:54,230 What I want to see is the information to prove the kind of economic growth we're going to 15 00:00:54,230 --> 00:00:57,030 get with all of our tax provisions. 16 00:00:57,030 --> 00:01:01,780 ROBERT COSTA: Democrats say the GOP plan is a gift to the rich that will raise taxes on 17 00:01:01,780 --> 00:01:06,690 middle-income families and scale back health insurance coverage. Meanwhile - 18 00:01:06,690 --> 00:01:11,690 ROY MOORE: (From video.) This is an effort by Mitch McConnell and his cronies to steal 19 00:01:11,690 --> 00:01:16,220 this election from the people of Alabama, and they will not stand for it. 20 00:01:16,220 --> 00:01:20,500 ROBERT COSTA: The tense fallout surrounding former Alabama Judge Roy Moore's 21 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:24,340 past and his potential future if elected to the Senate. 22 00:01:24,340 --> 00:01:27,480 KAYLA MOORE: (From video.) He will not step down. 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,040 ROBERT COSTA: And Democratic Senator Al Franken faces an ethics investigation amid 24 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,980 accusations of sexual misconduct. 25 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:40,440 We discuss it all with Jackie Calmes of The Los Angeles Times, Jeremy Peters of The New 26 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:46,690 York Times, Nancy Cordes of CBS News, and Ed O'Keefe of The Washington Post. 27 00:01:46,690 --> 00:01:52,730 ANNOUNCER: Celebrating 50 years, this is Washington Week. 28 00:01:52,730 --> 00:01:58,490 Once again, live from Washington, moderator Robert Costa. 29 00:01:58,490 --> 00:02:03,500 ROBERT COSTA: Good evening. After weeks of fits and starts, the House passed a tax-cut 30 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:09,230 bill on Thursday, moving President Trump and Republicans a step closer to their first 31 00:02:09,230 --> 00:02:14,200 major legislative win of the year. The action, it now moves to the Senate, where there 32 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,320 are glimmers of trouble with Democrats and some resistance from Republicans. 33 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:23,380 The stakes are high, and the schedule is tight with Christmas the informal deadline. 34 00:02:23,380 --> 00:02:27,710 Nancy, what's fascinating about what's happening right now on Capitol Hill, it's a return 35 00:02:27,710 --> 00:02:32,220 to traditional fault lines, the core Republican values - tax cuts - versus the core 36 00:02:32,220 --> 00:02:35,630 Democratic values. Is that really what's at the heart of this debate? 37 00:02:35,630 --> 00:02:38,980 NANCY CORDES: Yeah, I mean, this is an old-school fight that was going on long before 38 00:02:38,980 --> 00:02:43,350 Obamacare was even a word that had ever been uttered in the halls of Congress. 39 00:02:43,350 --> 00:02:49,650 And it really came to a crescendo on Thursday night, when you had Orrin Hatch, a stalwart 40 00:02:49,650 --> 00:02:56,640 Republican, and Sherrod Brown, a devoted liberal, finally, after 25 hours over four days 41 00:02:56,640 --> 00:03:01,360 debating this GOP tax plan, they just decided to have it out. 42 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,800 And Brown made the case that all Democrats have been making, which is that this is a 43 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:11,770 giveaway to the wealthy, to corporations, that trickle-down economics doesn't work, and 44 00:03:11,770 --> 00:03:15,340 that the middle class will eventually see its taxes going up. 45 00:03:15,340 --> 00:03:19,340 While Orrin Hatch and the other Republicans on the panel say, no, no, all boats will be 46 00:03:19,340 --> 00:03:23,710 lifted by this, this is going to put businesses in a better position, make them more 47 00:03:23,710 --> 00:03:26,470 competitive, and that means more jobs for everybody. 48 00:03:26,470 --> 00:03:29,790 ROBERT COSTA: Ed, what changes in this bill as it heads to the Senate - it seems like 49 00:03:29,790 --> 00:03:34,730 one thing that may not change is the cut of the corporate rate from 35 percent to 20 percent. 50 00:03:34,730 --> 00:03:36,640 ED O'KEEFE: That's in there. That's in - 51 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,560 ROBERT COSTA: Sometimes in Washington is what doesn't change that tells you a lot what 52 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,550 really the bill's all about. 53 00:03:41,550 --> 00:03:44,340 ED O'KEEFE: Exactly. So that stays as-is in the House plan. 54 00:03:44,340 --> 00:03:48,130 I think the two biggest things that will be seized upon in the coming weeks are the fact 55 00:03:48,130 --> 00:03:52,780 that the Senate is adding a repeal of the individual mandate, the cornerstone of the 56 00:03:52,780 --> 00:03:58,550 Affordable Care Act, to this bill, in part to generate some revenue and to make it easier 57 00:03:58,550 --> 00:04:03,520 to pass in the Senate under the weird rules that they have to use in regards to how much 58 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,950 it can cost. There are a bunch of senators in both parties who said, wait guys, we 59 00:04:07,950 --> 00:04:12,140 litigated this already. Why are we doing this again? However, most Republicans holding 60 00:04:12,140 --> 00:04:16,810 firm to that idea. The other one that sticks out to me, that I think is going to be an 61 00:04:16,810 --> 00:04:21,700 issue once they go back to the House with the compromise version, is that it would 62 00:04:21,700 --> 00:04:27,190 eliminate all deductions for state and local taxes, or SALT, they call it. The House 63 00:04:27,190 --> 00:04:32,130 compromise was that you can deduct $10,000 of your property taxes. The Senate doesn't 64 00:04:32,130 --> 00:04:36,930 have that at all. This is partly because big, high-tax states, California, New York, 65 00:04:36,930 --> 00:04:41,800 Illinois, New Jersey, Massachusetts, they don't have a Republican serving the Senate. 66 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,100 But in the House, there are almost three dozen Republicans representing suburban 67 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:49,920 communities in those states, who went to leaders and said: You cannot make me vote for 68 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,850 this or expect me to vote for it, and also see me get reelected. So those are the two, 69 00:04:54,850 --> 00:04:58,950 I think, bigger ones. The other problem in the Senate, of course, is just the politics. 70 00:04:58,950 --> 00:05:03,890 It's a narrow margin. And you've got three to six Republican senators whose votes 71 00:05:03,890 --> 00:05:06,960 are still unknown at this point for various reasons. 72 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,750 ROBERT COSTA: But, Jackie, what does that mean, though, if that happens, if that 73 00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:12,180 Obamacare mandate is repealed? 74 00:05:12,180 --> 00:05:15,790 What does it mean if you're an American who counts on some of those subsidies or funding? 75 00:05:15,790 --> 00:05:20,160 JACKIE CALMES: Well, it is the reason that the Joint Committee on Taxation has said that 76 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:26,440 people who make from $10(,000) to $30,000 a year will, in effect, not get a tax cut. 77 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:32,820 And people $75,000 and under eventually won't either, because they're losing that tax 78 00:05:32,820 --> 00:05:39,330 credit for that health coverage and the subsidies. And, you know, the Republicans are 79 00:05:39,330 --> 00:05:44,740 arguing, well, that's not really a tax increase for them because it's just making people, 80 00:05:44,740 --> 00:05:51,230 as someone said, not having to pay for crappy health insurance. Well, but now they're 81 00:05:51,230 --> 00:05:55,760 going to be uninsured. And so this comes back to all of us, where they're going to be 82 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,240 back in the emergency rooms to get their coverage. 83 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,220 They're not going to have insurance coverage to get their care. 84 00:06:02,220 --> 00:06:05,700 And the rest of us are going to be paying higher premiums and higher costs in the 85 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:10,560 hospital because of the fact that these people will become, once again, what Republican 86 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,580 Senator Chuck Grassley used to call "free riders" back in the years when Republicans were 87 00:06:15,580 --> 00:06:20,520 for an individual mandate, for the very reason that people had to take responsibility and 88 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:22,970 get health care coverage. 89 00:06:22,970 --> 00:06:28,020 They were "free riders" because they were just going to ERs, or getting free health care. 90 00:06:28,020 --> 00:06:33,300 So this is the - this is where the health care bill debate has gotten conflated with the 91 00:06:33,300 --> 00:06:39,090 tax debate. But it is - it is - it affects costs of living and quality of life. 92 00:06:39,090 --> 00:06:42,260 ROBERT COSTA: When you look at why they're intertwined, Jeremy, you got to ask the 93 00:06:42,260 --> 00:06:47,560 question of why. Why are Republicans moving on health care, as well as moving on taxes? 94 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,770 Is it because the base wants it? You cover Breitbart and the base so closely. You 95 00:06:51,770 --> 00:06:55,730 interviewed Steve Bannon recently. Are they clamoring for what's happening on Capitol Hill? 96 00:06:55,730 --> 00:07:01,620 JEREMY PETERS: Not really. In the abstract, people like the idea of a tax cut. 97 00:07:01,620 --> 00:07:07,200 But you see this poll that just came out from Quinnipiac the other day, 16 percent of 98 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,050 Americans think that it will actually cut their taxes. 99 00:07:10,050 --> 00:07:14,600 That should frighten every Republican on Capitol Hill right now. 100 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,900 With regard to the health care mandate, though, the reason they're doing that - the 101 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:22,830 reason it's in the Senate bill, as Ed said, they need to pay for this somehow, right? 102 00:07:22,830 --> 00:07:28,650 It's also satisfying to the base, to your point. They're - seven years went by. 103 00:07:28,650 --> 00:07:35,100 Republicans said: Put us in the catbird seat. We will deliver. We will repeal Obamacare. 104 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:39,390 They tried. They failed. And it's still not clear to me that they'll be able to do it 105 00:07:39,390 --> 00:07:46,030 next year. So they needed to have this in there as kind of a demonstration, OK, we'll 106 00:07:46,030 --> 00:07:52,580 give it one more shot. In the end though, you don't hear many people talking about it. 107 00:07:52,580 --> 00:07:56,100 It's not part of the conversation around the tax debate by and large, because most people 108 00:07:56,100 --> 00:07:58,470 realize it's not going to happen. 109 00:07:58,470 --> 00:08:01,510 NANCY CORDES: Right. And interestingly originally it was the president who said: 110 00:08:01,510 --> 00:08:04,540 Hey, why don't you throw a repeal of the individual mandate in there? 111 00:08:04,540 --> 00:08:09,460 That way you can bring the top rate down from 39.5 percent to 35 percent. 112 00:08:09,460 --> 00:08:13,250 Republicans balked at that because they said we're already getting slammed for making 113 00:08:13,250 --> 00:08:16,110 this a big boon to the wealthy. 114 00:08:16,110 --> 00:08:19,660 Getting rid of the individual mandate which, by and large, as Jackie pointed out, helps 115 00:08:19,660 --> 00:08:24,290 low income people - and then doing that to bring rich people's taxes down is not going to 116 00:08:24,290 --> 00:08:31,860 fly. But they decided what we can do is bump up the tax cut for middle-income Americans and 117 00:08:31,860 --> 00:08:36,900 double the tax - the child tax credit. And so that's what that money is going towards. 118 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:42,320 And trying to lift it out at this point would really put them in a big fiscal bind. 119 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,900 JACKIE CALMES: But Jeremy pointed out that the reason they did this was not just to 120 00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:53,690 salvage their promise to repeal Obamacare, but to get the money from not paying out those 121 00:08:53,690 --> 00:08:58,690 subsidies anymore so they could pay for more tax cuts. Even so, the fact remains that 122 00:08:58,690 --> 00:09:04,340 these bills will add $1.5 trillion over 10 years in the first 10 years to the debt. 123 00:09:04,340 --> 00:09:08,500 JEREMY PETERS: I thought they were going to pay for themselves. Isn't that - isn't that the theory? 124 00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:11,940 JACKIE CALMES: Oh, yeah, find me a credible economist that believes that - yeah. 125 00:09:11,940 --> 00:09:15,800 JEREMY PETERS: Right. I saw Larry Summers today doing an interview saying that it's 126 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,900 just a fantasy to assume that these tax cuts will generate so much growth that they 127 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:23,560 will somehow magically pay for themselves. I think that they will generate - you know, 128 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:27,150 in a perfect-case scenario, yes, generate some economic growth, but this - 129 00:09:27,150 --> 00:09:30,550 JACKIE CALMES: And they've done this to get more money for tax cuts. And yet, the 130 00:09:30,550 --> 00:09:35,810 tax cuts for individuals expire in 2025, when the corporate tax cuts are permanent. 131 00:09:35,810 --> 00:09:37,490 ROBERT COSTA: In the Senate plan. 132 00:09:37,490 --> 00:09:39,130 JACKIE CALMES: In the Senate plan. 133 00:09:39,130 --> 00:09:41,510 ED O'KEEFE: And you know what the Democrats are doing when Republicans voted for this, 134 00:09:41,510 --> 00:09:44,450 when the tally was called? Bye-bye. 135 00:09:44,450 --> 00:09:46,470 ROBERT COSTA: They really think this is going to cause a wave? 136 00:09:46,470 --> 00:09:49,870 ED O'KEEFE: Because they are convinced this is going to cause a huge wave. You've now 137 00:09:49,870 --> 00:09:54,480 combined raising taxes potentially on lower-income and middle-income Americans plus, in the 138 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,440 Senate, you're causing, once again, the unpopular prospect of ending the individual mandate. 139 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,980 ROBERT COSTA: But, Ed, if you're Bob Casey, senator, Democrat from Pennsylvania, or Joe 140 00:10:03,980 --> 00:10:06,980 Donnelly, in a state Trump won big, why aren't you tempted at least to vote - 141 00:10:06,980 --> 00:10:11,770 ED O'KEEFE: Because - and trust me, they are tempted to help make a deal. 142 00:10:11,770 --> 00:10:15,100 They are eager and willing to sit with Republicans and do it. But now, especially 143 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:18,200 that the individual mandate repeal has been added back, they say no deal. 144 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,860 No way, because look at the polling just a few weeks ago in Virginia, New Jersey, and all 145 00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:26,790 those other local races across the country. What is now the number-one domestic concern? 146 00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:32,020 Preserving or messing too much with health care. Democrats know it is a rallying issue for them. 147 00:10:32,020 --> 00:10:35,550 NANCY CORDES: And, frankly, they have not been part of these negotiations in a serious 148 00:10:35,550 --> 00:10:40,270 way from the very beginning, because Republicans believe that they can pass this tax plan 149 00:10:40,270 --> 00:10:45,400 without Democrats. And so, you know, Democrats offered God knows how many amendments 150 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:50,690 over the past week in the Senate Finance Committee. And zero were approved. 151 00:10:50,690 --> 00:10:54,870 So there's no incentive on the Republicans' part to negotiate with Democrats. 152 00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:58,120 And therefore, no incentive for Democrats to support this plan. 153 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,200 ROBERT COSTA: What about the deficit hawks? You look at Senator Flake, Senator Corker. 154 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,280 They've broken with President Trump and they don't like the way this bill adds more than 155 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,510 a trillion dollars to the deficit. 156 00:11:06,510 --> 00:11:10,040 JEREMY PETERS: Senator Lankford of Oklahoma is also concerned about this. That's exactly 157 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:15,170 right, because they understand the hypocrisy of it. These are guys who ran on a message 158 00:11:15,170 --> 00:11:19,140 of tea party fiscal austerity. And now they're talking about adding trillions and 159 00:11:19,140 --> 00:11:23,100 trillions and trillions to the debt by passing this massive tax cut. 160 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:28,760 They understand that it's bad politics. And not only is it bad politics, but voters 161 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,950 don't seem to understand what they're getting out of this. 162 00:11:31,950 --> 00:11:35,070 Republicans feel like they'll be punished if they don't pass something. 163 00:11:35,070 --> 00:11:38,110 So they need to pass something, or so they've told themselves. 164 00:11:38,110 --> 00:11:42,080 But I'm not sure, Bob, that the benefit of passing anything is really all that great 165 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,860 because, as Nancy pointed out, the public really doesn't feel - they're not asking for a 166 00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:51,410 tax cut. They want their health care. They want a job. They want their country 167 00:11:51,410 --> 00:11:55,740 not to be nuked by North Korea. Four percent of people in the last poll that I 168 00:11:55,740 --> 00:11:58,700 saw listed tax cuts as their major concern. 169 00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:03,630 JACKIE CALMES: Well, if I could just add to that, it's just the - this is a corporate 170 00:12:03,630 --> 00:12:08,360 tax cut. That's what it is. And when you - to your argument at the very outset of 171 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,920 this discussion that this is a traditional tax debate, and right up Republicans' 172 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:18,510 alley, that this was - the fact it's not what Donald Trump promised. 173 00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:22,250 He promised a very populist plan that would - for individuals. 174 00:12:22,250 --> 00:12:27,590 And I would just - Jeremy, bringing up the deficit - in 2025, when individual tax cuts 175 00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:32,170 expire and people - and all the Republicans are saying: Oh, they'll be extended. 176 00:12:32,170 --> 00:12:36,800 They're not going to let taxes go up for people. The debt, the federal debt in 2025 will 177 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:42,330 be $25 billion (sic; trillion), even without this tax cut, which is 90 percent of GDP. 178 00:12:42,330 --> 00:12:45,980 NANCY CORDES: And of course, the big Democratic concern is that this just phase one. 179 00:12:45,980 --> 00:12:51,940 Phase two is next year Republicans say, oh, look at what a hole we've now put in the 180 00:12:51,940 --> 00:12:56,130 budget with these tax cuts. Now we need to start cutting services. Now we need to 181 00:12:56,130 --> 00:13:00,470 start cutting Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. And that's the fear. 182 00:13:00,470 --> 00:13:03,530 ROBERT COSTA: We're going to keep a close eye on all this. We'll have to see if 183 00:13:03,530 --> 00:13:07,970 they actually can get it done by the holiday. I'm not planning any vacation. 184 00:13:07,970 --> 00:13:11,530 I don't know about all of you. (Laughter.) For the moment, though, let's turn 185 00:13:11,530 --> 00:13:15,460 to another controversy on Capitol Hill. Not as - more controversial than taxes. 186 00:13:15,460 --> 00:13:18,910 This is Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore. 187 00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:24,250 The former Alabama judge continues to deny the allegations against him as more women come 188 00:13:24,250 --> 00:13:29,470 forward accusing him of inappropriate sexual advances and misconduct over the past 30 189 00:13:29,470 --> 00:13:34,030 years. During a news conference in Birmingham, Moore accused Senate Leader 190 00:13:34,030 --> 00:13:38,160 Mitch McConnell of trying to steal the election from the voters of Alabama. 191 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,730 McConnell said he believes Moore's accusers, and suggested that the Republican Senate 192 00:13:42,730 --> 00:13:48,840 candidate would face an ethics probe if he were elected. Jeremy, I want to pull up 193 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,410 something you wrote, because it tells me so much about where we are. And this is in 194 00:13:52,410 --> 00:13:56,200 The New York Times. There was a time, you wrote, when the question of whether to disown 195 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:01,160 a candidate accused of sexually abusing a 14-year-old girl was fairly straightforward, 196 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:06,350 but the divisions in the Republican Party run so deep that it's now become a proxy fight. 197 00:14:06,350 --> 00:14:10,250 And that's what I want to talk about with you, is that this fight - this question about 198 00:14:10,250 --> 00:14:14,450 Roy Moore, it has now become something about the base of the party versus McConnell; it's 199 00:14:14,450 --> 00:14:16,420 not so much about Moore. 200 00:14:16,420 --> 00:14:19,770 JEREMY PETERS: No, it's not. Roy Moore is just a stand-in character - we've seen 201 00:14:19,770 --> 00:14:26,160 this happen in race after race - for the anti-establishment. He represents to them 202 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:32,970 a - the base - he represents to the base a big middle finger to Mitch McConnell, and 203 00:14:32,970 --> 00:14:38,920 that's basically what you have here. It's what Donald Trump was, to a much larger degree. 204 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:47,360 So I think that what Roy Moore can do is get - what he is doing is once again kind of 205 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:53,950 resetting the parameters of civility and lowering the bar in terms of what Americans will 206 00:14:53,950 --> 00:15:00,140 expect from the candidates that they elect, and this is really bad. 207 00:15:00,140 --> 00:15:06,100 I mean, somebody who is accused - some very credible accusations - of being essentially a 208 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:10,860 sexual predator, and there are enough voters out there in Alabama who are saying, you 209 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:15,190 know what, we hate Republican leadership so much that that's our guy. 210 00:15:15,190 --> 00:15:18,940 ROBERT COSTA: And the Democrat, Doug Jones, is gaining. 211 00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:22,770 NANCY CORDES: Right. And Republicans on Capitol Hill I've spoken to have said that 212 00:15:22,770 --> 00:15:27,980 really the only thing they think at this point can get to Moore or to the Republican 213 00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:33,040 Party leadership in Alabama, which is still backing him, is if President Trump were 214 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,320 really to step in in a meaningful way. 215 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,530 ROBERT COSTA: He's not, though. He's staying out of it. 216 00:15:37,530 --> 00:15:41,060 NANCY CORDES: But he is not. I've shouted many questions to him this week about 217 00:15:41,060 --> 00:15:44,700 whether he believed Moore's accusers, whether he thought Moore should get out of the 218 00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:47,960 race, and I know a lot of other reporters did too, and he just wouldn't touch it. 219 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,760 It was one time he did not want to talk to the microphones. 220 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,970 ROBERT COSTA: Ed, the challenge for McConnell right now is pretty big. 221 00:15:54,970 --> 00:16:00,190 Governor Ivey, a female governor, Republican, of Alabama, says she supports Moore. 222 00:16:00,190 --> 00:16:03,710 She's not going to call some kind of different election or ask Senator Luther Strange to 223 00:16:03,710 --> 00:16:06,680 resign. It seems like his hands are tied, McConnell's hands. 224 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,030 ED O'KEEFE: They totally are. You either spark this fight that just infuriates 225 00:16:10,030 --> 00:16:14,830 the base in Alabama even more to vote for Roy Moore, or - and then he comes to 226 00:16:14,830 --> 00:16:20,720 the Senate. And by McConnell's estimation, he then faces an ethics probe. 227 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,800 So, for potentially the next year, you immediately have a freshman senator facing all 228 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,040 sorts of salacious allegations that the press and the public will want to hear about. 229 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,370 JEREMY PETERS: And that the Democrats will run on. 230 00:16:32,370 --> 00:16:35,380 ED O'KEEFE: And they will run on it. And that's the other thing, he will immediately 231 00:16:35,380 --> 00:16:38,680 become a poster child for the Republican Party, and every other Senate candidate across 232 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,740 the country will say, you know, X - Senator X stands with Roy Moore, how can you 233 00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:47,170 vote for this party. Flip side, gets even worse - chamber becomes even more narrowly 234 00:16:47,170 --> 00:16:52,170 divided if Doug Jones wins, 51-49. It'll become even more impossible to pass 235 00:16:52,170 --> 00:16:56,160 significant legislation. It is not a good time to be Mitch McConnell. 236 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:01,200 JACKIE CALMES: Well, you know, the irony here is that Mitch McConnell is the villain in 237 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,550 this to the Moore supporters, and yet you mentioned the governor of Alabama. 238 00:17:06,550 --> 00:17:08,290 ROBERT COSTA: Kay Ivey. 239 00:17:08,290 --> 00:17:11,970 JACKIE CALMES: She said explicitly that the reason she's going to support him is - vote 240 00:17:11,970 --> 00:17:16,650 for him is because she thinks we need to have a Republican Senate in order to confirm 241 00:17:16,650 --> 00:17:20,030 judges and get more Neil Gorsuches on the Court. 242 00:17:20,030 --> 00:17:25,070 The irony here is that Neil Gorsuch would not be on the Court but for Mitch McConnell, 243 00:17:25,070 --> 00:17:30,820 who held that seat open for an entire year by not giving Barack Obama a vote. 244 00:17:30,820 --> 00:17:36,410 And I have to say I've continued to this day to be puzzled as to why the conservative 245 00:17:36,410 --> 00:17:41,720 right, the Evangelical right, does not give Mitch McConnell more credit. 246 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,440 ROBERT COSTA: Well, because it's become this proxy war. 247 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,280 NANCY CORDES: He can make - he can make a credible case that he's a big reason that 248 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,450 President Trump got elected, because in the suburbs of Philadelphia and other cities 249 00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:59,730 Republicans who are moderates and might not have liked Donald Trump very much went to the 250 00:17:59,730 --> 00:18:03,750 polls and voted for him anyway because they said, well, this is about the Supreme Court. 251 00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:07,430 There is an opening on the Supreme Court, and that was all engineered by Mitch McConnell. 252 00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:10,360 ROBERT COSTA: Doug Jones, the Democrat, does he really have a chance? 253 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:15,240 ED O'KEEFE: Looks like it. There was a - one of the best we call them live-caller 254 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:20,620 polls done this week by - on behalf of Fox News by a bipartisan firm found him ahead. 255 00:18:20,620 --> 00:18:25,480 And also, curiously, if you dive into the numbers, if you look at the favorability 256 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,400 ratings for the president, for Jeff Sessions, for Luther Strange - the incumbent who lost 257 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,390 the primary - and for former President Barack Obama, of all those guys, who has the best 258 00:18:33,390 --> 00:18:37,240 numbers in the state of Alabama right now? Apparently, former President Obama. 259 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,420 JEREMY PETERS: But doesn't that make you think that the poll is kind of suspect? 260 00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:46,080 I had somebody raise some red flags to me - not that I think by any means - well, I don't 261 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:52,520 know. Think about it this way. If you are an Alabamian, right now you're - and you're 262 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,470 inclined to vote for Moore, you're probably changing your mind day to day. 263 00:18:56,470 --> 00:19:00,880 Do I believe The Washington Post? Sorry, Ed. (Laughter.) Do I want - 264 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,730 NANCY CORDES: Bernie Bernstein. 265 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:08,100 JEREMY PETERS: - to give Mitch McConnell a victory, or do I want to stand by the guy 266 00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:12,060 that I know will stand up to the very political system that I feel has disenfranchised me? 267 00:19:12,060 --> 00:19:14,970 ROBERT COSTA: So it becomes a political calculation more than about the accusations of 268 00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:17,280 women who are putting their names on the accusations. 269 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,670 JEREMY PETERS: Right. I think it's entirely political. 270 00:19:19,670 --> 00:19:23,180 ROBERT COSTA: Let's stick with this topic, because while the president has avoided 271 00:19:23,180 --> 00:19:28,440 publicly addressing the allegations against Moore, he didn't shy away from commenting on 272 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:33,900 the explosive accusations of sexual harassment against Democratic Senator Al Franken. 273 00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:39,330 Radio host and former model Leeann Tweeden says the Minnesota senator and former SNL 274 00:19:39,330 --> 00:19:46,030 comedian forcibly kissed her and groped her while the two were part of an overseas USO 275 00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:52,190 tour a decade ago. Franken issued an apology that said in part, "I don't know what was 276 00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:56,440 in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. 277 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,440 I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. 278 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:05,040 What's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it." Franken 279 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,170 has promised to cooperate with an ethics committee investigation. 280 00:20:09,170 --> 00:20:14,320 Hours later, President Trump commented on the accusations via Twitter, writing, "The Al 281 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,900 Frankenstein picture is really bad, speaks a thousand words." 282 00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:22,730 Nancy, you've been - you've been covering this all week. The fallout for Franken? 283 00:20:22,730 --> 00:20:27,070 He's still there, but it shows both parties have been implicated in this national 284 00:20:27,070 --> 00:20:30,700 debate/discussion about the important issue of sexual conduct. 285 00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:34,630 NANCY CORDES: Absolutely, and senators from both sides were pretty quick to come out and 286 00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:39,920 say that he was right to apologize, that it was disgusting what he did, and that they 287 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,440 believed his accuser, and that they supported an ethics investigation. 288 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,140 I think the question when it comes to his future in the Senate is, A, does anyone else 289 00:20:49,140 --> 00:20:53,000 come forward; and, B, what's his record in the Senate? 290 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:58,980 We called around to more than a dozen of his former staffers, and all of them said that 291 00:20:58,980 --> 00:21:04,390 he had always behaved professionally around them, that he was very supportive of women, 292 00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:08,650 very appropriate around women, and that they felt that he was a good boss. 293 00:21:08,650 --> 00:21:10,530 So, obviously, that's going to - 294 00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:12,170 JACKIE CALMES: A number of them put out a public statement. 295 00:21:12,170 --> 00:21:14,140 ED O'KEEFE: Eight of them, yeah. 296 00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:16,550 NANCY CORDES: Exactly. So they've come out - you know, they've come out in support of 297 00:21:16,550 --> 00:21:18,850 him, and so far no one else has made an accusation against him. 298 00:21:18,850 --> 00:21:21,420 ROBERT COSTA: And it's gone beyond Franken on the Democratic side. 299 00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:25,880 Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York told The New York Times, I believe, that now she 300 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:30,200 believes President Bill Clinton should have resigned over the Monica Lewinsky incident in 301 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,820 the late '90s, and that's been revived as an issue on the Democratic side. 302 00:21:33,820 --> 00:21:38,350 JACKIE CALMES: Right, and it was revived a year ago by then-candidate Trump when he was 303 00:21:38,350 --> 00:21:44,740 trying to distract from the allegations against him. You know, it's fair game, but 304 00:21:44,740 --> 00:21:51,870 it's - going back that far, it's - you know, the one good thing about it is going back 305 00:21:51,870 --> 00:21:57,390 that far it shows that this isn't just a recent phenomenon, so that is good. 306 00:21:57,390 --> 00:22:01,540 It's also not just about politics, because this actually started with Harvey Weinstein 307 00:22:01,540 --> 00:22:05,540 and then - you know, and it's gotten people in sports, in business. 308 00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:09,970 I'm sure Nancy and I could share notes. We could tell you this is not 309 00:22:09,970 --> 00:22:13,500 just - this is not just in politics, although it is in politics. 310 00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:15,790 ROBERT COSTA: And it's pretty bad in politics. 311 00:22:15,790 --> 00:22:17,500 JACKIE CALMES: It is. 312 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,780 ROBERT COSTA: We saw in a hearing this week they've spent millions on settlements on 313 00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:21,760 harassment cases on Capitol Hill. 314 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,120 JACKIE CALMES: Right. But I would say - and Ed may know better than I - that list of 315 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:28,470 settlements that got a lot of play on social media turns out to be a list of 316 00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:34,780 settlements paid out for cases against members of Congress, but it's not just sex 317 00:22:34,780 --> 00:22:39,440 harassment. It's a variety of cases that include wage and hour disputes, family 318 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,820 leave, disability. So we don't know how much of that is about sexual harassment. 319 00:22:44,820 --> 00:22:47,350 ED O'KEEFE: I think we need to keep one thing in mind here. 320 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:54,400 This is - it is quite amazing, first of all, how quickly the Senate closed ranks on 321 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,500 Franken and said this is unacceptable and you're going to face an ethics probe. 322 00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:03,750 This was sparked because earlier in the week McConnell had said if Roy Moore gets elected 323 00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:07,610 to the Senate we will immediately launch an ethics committee investigation, so the precedent 324 00:23:07,610 --> 00:23:11,900 had been set. He knew right away if it's that way for Roy Moore it has to be that way 325 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:15,420 for Al Franken. But there's a bigger point I want to make. I want to make this point. 326 00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:20,820 Early in the week, McConnell, without fail, without hesitation, made very clear I believe 327 00:23:20,820 --> 00:23:25,890 the women. He doesn't like Roy Moore. He doesn't want to see Roy Moore in the Senate. 328 00:23:25,890 --> 00:23:30,200 He's doing everything he can to stop him. But I think seeing one of the most senior 329 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,890 political leaders in this country very clearly say I believe the accusers was a 330 00:23:34,890 --> 00:23:38,680 watershed moment, and something that I think allowed very quickly for what to 331 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,360 unfold this week, where just about every other lawmaker said I agree with the - 332 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:44,110 JEREMY PETERS: Well, I hate to be the cynic here - 333 00:23:44,110 --> 00:23:48,030 JACKIE CALMES: Can we - can we not forget, though, that this is about child molestation allegations, too? 334 00:23:48,030 --> 00:23:49,610 ED O'KEEFE: Well, in the case of Roy Moore. 335 00:23:49,610 --> 00:23:51,220 JACKIE CALMES: Roy Moore, yes. 336 00:23:51,220 --> 00:23:53,590 JEREMY PETERS: I hate to be the cynic here, but ultimately this is all political. 337 00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:55,640 ROBERT COSTA: Well, everything is politics. (Laughter.) 338 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,520 JEREMY PETERS: McConnell would not have come out and - 339 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,890 ROBERT COSTA: We're going to get - we'll get to this on the webcast. (Laughter.) 340 00:23:59,890 --> 00:24:02,840 We're going to have to leave it there. Thanks, everybody, for being here. I appreciate 341 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,630 it, as always. And our conversation will continue online, as I said, on the 342 00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:08,750 Washington Week Extra, where we'll tell why millions of dollars in taxpayer money 343 00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:12,330 has been spent on settlements, including harassment suits, against those lawmakers. 344 00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:17,080 You can find that later tonight and all weekend long at PBS.org/WashingtonWeek. 345 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:25,530 I'm Robert Costa, and I wish you and your family a Happy Thanksgiving.