Welcome to the
Washington Week Extra.

I am Yamiche Alcindor.

Tonight we discussed
the newly released book.

His name is George Floyd,
one man's life and the
Struggle for racial justice.

Joining me to discuss
this amazing new book are
the authors, of course.

Toluse Olorunnipa.

He's a political enterprise
and investigations reporter for
The Washington Post and Robert

Samuels national
political correspondent.

Or should say National
Political Enterprise reporter
for The Washington Post.

Thank you both.

For being here.

I'm so excited.

I should tell you.

I am going to show you my book
because it's all marked up
because I just like, ran through

this book because it's so good.

It's sad and tragic, but
it's also such a good read.

So congratulations
on the book, guys.

I want to share
with you, Robert.

You said that you
started out with

these guiding questions.

Who was George Floyd?

And what was it like

to live in his America?

I know you wrote a whole
book answering those

questions with Robert.

I'm gonna start with
you Give us the core

answers of what you found out.

Well, who was George Floyd?

What we found out
was he was a man who

was beloved by his community.

He was gregarious.

He was godly.

He

had a faith.

He was comical.

Everyone told stories
about his jokes

and he was complicated,
and he had a lot of
darkness is in his life.

And he had a lot of struggles.

And what was it
like to live in his

America was to learn about
all these institutions
all these different

systems from the land
loss that started with
his ancestors at from

long before he was born.

To the struggling crumbling
education system and
poor housing system

to a criminal justice
system that was hyper
aggressive in terms of

treating a person and
looking for a person like
George Floyd to incarcerate

And and his life had
been shaped by all these
institutional forces

and many times those forces
hindered his ambition
to strive and become

something in the world.

It was.

It was a hard thing to get
you to summarize the book.

But

you did it so well,
just now, because it
is sort of the heart of

the beating heart of
this book is exactly
what you just described.

I want to come to you.

We, of course, learned
about George Floyd

and got to know him as a as a
nation when he was an older man.

But

of course you looked at his
the totality of his life.

So I want to

ask you talk to me
a little bit about

His life as a young man
and some of the challenges
he faced, especially

when it comes to going
to segregated schools
and other things.

Yeah.

George Floyd, who grew up in
Houston's third Ward, It was an

impoverished community.

But it was a community
that had a lot of

love.

Where even though 99% of the
people in the housing project

that he lived in were black, and
most of them were poor, they all

you know we're a community that
worked together and looked after

each other and looked
out for each other.

And George Floyd had stature

in that community because
he was an athlete.

He was somebody who people
thought was different.

We talked to his

second grade teacher
and found out that he
had a lot of ambition

to the young kid, and he
actually was a relatively
smart eight year

old.

He was someone who
wrote an essay about
wanting to be a Supreme

Court justice and we talk

To his students in
high school that were
with him when he got to

high school, and we saw
that that smart kid that
was the second grader

and had all of these ambitions.

Had been funneled through
a number of segregated,
underfunded schools

in Houston, Third Ward,
and by the time he
gets to high school, he

has been told you're not
going to be able to make
anything of yourself

By going to school.

You should focus on your
sports athletics career

and try to make it that way.

And he did, and he was

Star athlete, and he
was somebody who made
his his his teammates

joke and laugh on the field.

But that dream also
was close to him.

Just like his dream of
becoming a lawyer and
a Supreme Court justice

was closed to him, in part
because of his shaky education.

And what we're able to
document was that even
though he had dreams,

even though he had
ambitions, and he started
off life with all of

these goals

He saw doors closed to
him What closed down
in one after the other,

and he kept driving.

He kept fighting.

He kept working and trying

to make something of himself.

But he saw those
institutional barriers

from

The education system to.

Obviously we see the
criminal justice system

really closed down on
him, and we wanted to
provide that context.

So people know that Floyd
was not just the nine
minutes and 29 seconds

that people saw of him
on the video during
the worst time in his

life.

But he was somebody
that had ups and downs.

Somebody that had ambition.

Somebody that wanted to
make a great life for
himself, but saw racism

and institutional racism
at almost every turn,
and we wanted to show

people what that looks
like in the 21st century.

Yeah.

Yeah, And and I want
to go to you, Robert.

And I want to read

part of one of the most striking
moments in the book to me.

I was

on page 30 minutes
and this is after

George Floyd's younger
brother said Why he asked
him Why do you enter

a room and greet each person?

You write quote,
and you can quote

you're quoting George
Floyd's response to his
younger brother says

I can't go in a room like you.

Because of my size, he replied.

People look at me
and they're nervous

and scared.

So I opened up to them and
let them know I'm okay.

I'm

a good person.

What more Robert?

Can you share?

About what led
George Floyd there

and and and the the
foresight that he had
to know that he had to

put people at ease.

And, of course
you're a black man.

So I want

to ask you.

You can tell me if if if
you're comfortable, but

I want to know how much
that that resonate with you.

Absolutely one of the
things that I really
wanted to know when we

started this project image
is I asked about George
Floyd's relationship

with his body.

Because I had a feeling being
a black person in America.

Feeling

self conscious about what
I wear, how I present
myself that George

Floyd might have had
something similar.

And when I asked the
question, people started
telling these anecdotes

about how he felt compelled
to shake people by the
hand when he walked

into a room how, after his

I could.

After his athletic
dreams whittled away.

He felt awkward

because he was left with
this massive body that
was supposed to take

him to the top of the
upper echelon and become
a professional athlete.

But instead, he looks
like a big, intimidating
fellow walking down

the streets.

That could be a target.

For police violence or who
might threaten someone.

And so that's

why he always told
people he loved you.

That's why, when he saw someone

walking down the street,
he'd always notice if
there was something

different If you had a
new hairstyle, he noticed
and he'd say, Hey,

nice hairstyle because he
wanted people to like him.

And one of the other
things that one of the
real tragedies is when

he learns about the death of
Philando Castile and something.

Really strikes George
Floyd about that death.

That might be because

they were living
in the twin cities.

It might be because the little

girl was in the car and
he had a little girl.

But what he said to his
friends is, I bet those
cops are just waiting

to kill a big guy like me.

So he knew he knew that his
body could be seen as a threat.

Yeah, And I totally want
to read part of what
Robert was just talking

about.

It's on Page two.

Oh, eight, and I we
pulled it up as a graphic.

And it says quote Miss
Cissy, who was George
Floyd's mother taught

her sons a different
standard for dealing with
authorities with police

always comply.

Always be respectful.

Make it home alive.

And you say, as Robert
just talked about after
Philando Castile death,

George Boy said to
have to a friend.

I know these cops just waiting

to kill a big black man like me.

Talk about the advice that
that didn't really help for.

Unfortunately,

George Floyd in this case
and the fact that that
advice is continuously

still given out toluene

Yeah.

George Floyd was a recipient of
the talk, which we've all come

to know that the black
parents give to their
their Children basically

telling them what to
do and how to comply
when they're stopped by

police because they know that
that could lead to something.

Aggressive and violent
even if they don't

Feel like a threat.

Even if they're that the
child doesn't feel like

a threat.

They might be perceived as a
threat, and George Floyd knew

that he knew that
because of his body.

He knew that because of what

he ended up having a
criminal record, and
we don't shy away from,

you know, covering his
criminal record because
that was part of his

story.

It was part of America's story.

In the mass incarceration era in
which we decided to lock up you

know millions of people
and several of them
who look like George

Floyd and he knew that
police and the fact that
they were so ubiquitous

in his community and the
fact that they didn't

Often seem like a
force to protect.

They seem like a
force to oppress

and to occupy that he
knew that he was liable
to be in their crosshairs.

And he did find himself
in their crosshairs.

And despite the message

that he got from his mother

You know, and despite
the fact that he had
tried to comply often

with them and that at one point
when he was killed, he had tried

to comply and try to
ask the police to, you
know, take it easy on

him, and they used the
word, sir, over and over,
And he said, please,

and he begged for his life, and
he still lost his life under the

knee of a police officer.

It was something that
he had long feared.

It was something that his

mother had warned him
about something that
was difficult for him

as someone who was a
black man in America and
knew all of the baggage

that came with

New enough from his time
having cycled through
the criminal justice

system to know that he was
not going to get a fair shake.

One of

the last things that
he heard before he died
was that you can't win.

There was a man that
was a bystander on
the sidewalk, saying

Give up.

You can't win in America, and
that's something that he long

felt, and he long knew
that it was difficult
for him to win because

of how he was perceived,
and because of how the
systems that he tried

to navigate

Treated him.

You can't win.

I remember hearing that and
it it is striking to hear

someone say that as he
was dying, Robert, you
touched on this earlier,

but I wanna when you're talking
about the idea of not being able

to win.

You tell the story of
George Floyd's great
great great grandparents

and the their land
being taken away.

They had all this land in North

Carolina was taken away
because it became the
target of white resentment.

How did that impact,
of course, both his
ancestors but also George

Floyd's family and the
fact that I want to if
you could just oppose

that really quickly with

Derek Chauvin's family
and that the fact that
they were able to take

part of the prosperity
in America and the
sort of hope and dreams

that this country promises.

Well early in the book.

We talk about George
Floyd's ancestry and

his great grandfather,
Hillary Thomas Stewart.

After he was emancipated,

he was enslaved before

He was able to become
one of the wealthiest
landowners in North Carolina.

The family had talked
about this for generations,
and public records

show that it is true.

Ah, but because of unscrupulous

Officials and tax
schemes and fraud.

They seize that
land from Hillary

Thomas Stewart, and before
he's even to able to make
one intergenerational

transfer before he's
able to pass on anything.

That his ears it's wiped away
and that money never comes back.

What

that does is.

It sets the family on a road
to poverty that it can't

fully escaped there.

So they suffocate under
the pressures of the
sharecropping system.

They feel they need to
leave their home and
go to someplace else

go to Texas in hopes of
getting a better shot.

But there's also something
that changes within
the psyche to know

that within one generation,
everything you earn
for could be gone.

And so

Growing up.

George Floyd was around
a family that believed

Keep your head down.

Don't try to make a big
scene because if you do
if you make a mistake,

a white person will
take advantage of it.

Imagine what that does

to your psyche and your
ambitions for the world.

If that's the message,

if that's the story
of your family

Contrast that to Derek
Chauvin's family.

Ah, which

Came to this country
freely on a ship.

The ship was called
the Antarctica.

And they settled in Detroit
and its surroundings.

They started doing,

uh as migrant laborers.

They started working
in the fields

and then graduating up to
owning their own business.

And Derek Chauvin

he's born in the mini
Minneapolis suburbs
in the twin cities.

To a middle class
suburban family is not a
particularly good students

much like George Floyd, but he's
given opportunities in his life

and he has a dream.

Uh, watching Starsky
and Hutch that one day
he can be an enforcer

of the law and all the
systems worked to do that.

And as we saw towards

the end of his life
when we go through the
records of Derek Chauvin's

police career, he was enabled.

To carry on the way
he wanted to carry on,
including this excessive

use of force that
murdered a man.

Well, it's incredible
Reporting again.

The book is his name is George

Floyd definitely read it.

It's essential reading.

I think we'll have

to leave it there.

Thank you so much to
Toluse and to Robert for

joining us for writing
this and for sharing your
reporting on this book.