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Welcome to the 
Washington Week Extra.

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I am Yamiche Alcindor.

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Tonight we discussed 
the newly released book.

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His name is George Floyd, 
one man's life and the 
Struggle for racial justice.

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Joining me to discuss 
this amazing new book are 
the authors, of course.

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Toluse Olorunnipa.

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He's a political enterprise 
and investigations reporter for 
The Washington Post and Robert

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Samuels national 
political correspondent.

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Or should say National 
Political Enterprise reporter 
for The Washington Post.

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Thank you both.

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For being here.

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I'm so excited.

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I should tell you.

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I am going to show you my book 
because it's all marked up 
because I just like, ran through

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this book because it's so good.

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It's sad and tragic, but 
it's also such a good read.

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So congratulations 
on the book, guys.

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I want to share 
with you, Robert.

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You said that you 
started out with

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these guiding questions.

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Who was George Floyd?

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And what was it like

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to live in his America?

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I know you wrote a whole 
book answering those

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questions with Robert.

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I'm gonna start with 
you Give us the core

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answers of what you found out.

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Well, who was George Floyd?

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What we found out 
was he was a man who

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was beloved by his community.

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He was gregarious.

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He was godly.

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He

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had a faith.

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He was comical.

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Everyone told stories 
about his jokes

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and he was complicated, 
and he had a lot of 
darkness is in his life.

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And he had a lot of struggles.

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And what was it 
like to live in his

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America was to learn about 
all these institutions 
all these different

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systems from the land 
loss that started with 
his ancestors at from

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long before he was born.

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To the struggling crumbling 
education system and 
poor housing system

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to a criminal justice 
system that was hyper 
aggressive in terms of

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treating a person and 
looking for a person like 
George Floyd to incarcerate

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And and his life had 
been shaped by all these 
institutional forces

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and many times those forces 
hindered his ambition 
to strive and become

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something in the world.

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It was.

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It was a hard thing to get 
you to summarize the book.

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But

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you did it so well, 
just now, because it 
is sort of the heart of

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the beating heart of 
this book is exactly 
what you just described.

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I want to come to you.

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We, of course, learned 
about George Floyd

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and got to know him as a as a 
nation when he was an older man.

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But

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of course you looked at his 
the totality of his life.

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So I want to

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ask you talk to me 
a little bit about

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His life as a young man 
and some of the challenges 
he faced, especially

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when it comes to going 
to segregated schools 
and other things.

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Yeah.

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George Floyd, who grew up in 
Houston's third Ward, It was an

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impoverished community.

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But it was a community 
that had a lot of

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love.

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Where even though 99% of the 
people in the housing project

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that he lived in were black, and 
most of them were poor, they all

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you know we're a community that 
worked together and looked after

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each other and looked 
out for each other.

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And George Floyd had stature

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in that community because 
he was an athlete.

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He was somebody who people 
thought was different.

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We talked to his

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second grade teacher 
and found out that he 
had a lot of ambition

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to the young kid, and he 
actually was a relatively 
smart eight year

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old.

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He was someone who 
wrote an essay about 
wanting to be a Supreme

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Court justice and we talk

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To his students in 
high school that were 
with him when he got to

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high school, and we saw 
that that smart kid that 
was the second grader

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and had all of these ambitions.

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Had been funneled through 
a number of segregated, 
underfunded schools

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in Houston, Third Ward, 
and by the time he 
gets to high school, he

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has been told you're not 
going to be able to make 
anything of yourself

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By going to school.

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You should focus on your 
sports athletics career

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and try to make it that way.

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And he did, and he was

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Star athlete, and he 
was somebody who made 
his his his teammates

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joke and laugh on the field.

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But that dream also 
was close to him.

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Just like his dream of 
becoming a lawyer and 
a Supreme Court justice

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was closed to him, in part 
because of his shaky education.

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And what we're able to 
document was that even 
though he had dreams,

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even though he had 
ambitions, and he started 
off life with all of

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these goals

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He saw doors closed to 
him What closed down 
in one after the other,

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and he kept driving.

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He kept fighting.

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He kept working and trying

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to make something of himself.

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But he saw those 
institutional barriers

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from

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The education system to.

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Obviously we see the 
criminal justice system

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really closed down on 
him, and we wanted to 
provide that context.

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So people know that Floyd 
was not just the nine 
minutes and 29 seconds

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that people saw of him 
on the video during 
the worst time in his

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life.

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But he was somebody 
that had ups and downs.

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Somebody that had ambition.

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Somebody that wanted to 
make a great life for 
himself, but saw racism

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and institutional racism 
at almost every turn, 
and we wanted to show

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people what that looks 
like in the 21st century.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, And and I want 
to go to you, Robert.

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And I want to read

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part of one of the most striking 
moments in the book to me.

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I was

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on page 30 minutes 
and this is after

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George Floyd's younger 
brother said Why he asked 
him Why do you enter

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a room and greet each person?

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You write quote, 
and you can quote

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you're quoting George 
Floyd's response to his 
younger brother says

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I can't go in a room like you.

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Because of my size, he replied.

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People look at me 
and they're nervous

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and scared.

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So I opened up to them and 
let them know I'm okay.

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I'm

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a good person.

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What more Robert?

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Can you share?

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About what led 
George Floyd there

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and and and the the 
foresight that he had 
to know that he had to

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put people at ease.

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And, of course 
you're a black man.

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So I want

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to ask you.

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You can tell me if if if 
you're comfortable, but

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I want to know how much 
that that resonate with you.

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Absolutely one of the 
things that I really 
wanted to know when we

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started this project image 
is I asked about George 
Floyd's relationship

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with his body.

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Because I had a feeling being 
a black person in America.

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Feeling

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self conscious about what 
I wear, how I present 
myself that George

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Floyd might have had 
something similar.

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And when I asked the 
question, people started 
telling these anecdotes

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about how he felt compelled 
to shake people by the 
hand when he walked

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into a room how, after his

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I could.

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After his athletic 
dreams whittled away.

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He felt awkward

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because he was left with 
this massive body that 
was supposed to take

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him to the top of the 
upper echelon and become 
a professional athlete.

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But instead, he looks 
like a big, intimidating 
fellow walking down

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the streets.

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That could be a target.

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For police violence or who 
might threaten someone.

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And so that's

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why he always told 
people he loved you.

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That's why, when he saw someone

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walking down the street, 
he'd always notice if 
there was something

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different If you had a 
new hairstyle, he noticed 
and he'd say, Hey,

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nice hairstyle because he 
wanted people to like him.

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And one of the other 
things that one of the 
real tragedies is when

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he learns about the death of 
Philando Castile and something.

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Really strikes George 
Floyd about that death.

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That might be because

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they were living 
in the twin cities.

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It might be because the little

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girl was in the car and 
he had a little girl.

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But what he said to his 
friends is, I bet those 
cops are just waiting

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to kill a big guy like me.

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So he knew he knew that his 
body could be seen as a threat.

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Yeah, And I totally want 
to read part of what 
Robert was just talking

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about.

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It's on Page two.

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Oh, eight, and I we 
pulled it up as a graphic.

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And it says quote Miss 
Cissy, who was George 
Floyd's mother taught

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her sons a different 
standard for dealing with 
authorities with police

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always comply.

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Always be respectful.

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Make it home alive.

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And you say, as Robert 
just talked about after 
Philando Castile death,

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George Boy said to 
have to a friend.

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I know these cops just waiting

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to kill a big black man like me.

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Talk about the advice that 
that didn't really help for.

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Unfortunately,

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George Floyd in this case 
and the fact that that 
advice is continuously

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still given out toluene

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Yeah.

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George Floyd was a recipient of 
the talk, which we've all come

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to know that the black 
parents give to their 
their Children basically

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telling them what to 
do and how to comply 
when they're stopped by

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police because they know that 
that could lead to something.

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Aggressive and violent 
even if they don't

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Feel like a threat.

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Even if they're that the 
child doesn't feel like

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a threat.

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They might be perceived as a 
threat, and George Floyd knew

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that he knew that 
because of his body.

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He knew that because of what

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he ended up having a 
criminal record, and 
we don't shy away from,

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you know, covering his 
criminal record because 
that was part of his

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story.

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It was part of America's story.

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In the mass incarceration era in 
which we decided to lock up you

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know millions of people 
and several of them 
who look like George

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Floyd and he knew that 
police and the fact that 
they were so ubiquitous

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in his community and the 
fact that they didn't

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Often seem like a 
force to protect.

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They seem like a 
force to oppress

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and to occupy that he 
knew that he was liable 
to be in their crosshairs.

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And he did find himself 
in their crosshairs.

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And despite the message

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that he got from his mother

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You know, and despite 
the fact that he had 
tried to comply often

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with them and that at one point 
when he was killed, he had tried

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to comply and try to 
ask the police to, you 
know, take it easy on

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him, and they used the 
word, sir, over and over, 
And he said, please,

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and he begged for his life, and 
he still lost his life under the

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knee of a police officer.

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It was something that 
he had long feared.

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It was something that his

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mother had warned him 
about something that 
was difficult for him

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as someone who was a 
black man in America and 
knew all of the baggage

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that came with

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New enough from his time 
having cycled through 
the criminal justice

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system to know that he was 
not going to get a fair shake.

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One of

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the last things that 
he heard before he died 
was that you can't win.

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There was a man that 
was a bystander on 
the sidewalk, saying

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Give up.

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You can't win in America, and 
that's something that he long

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felt, and he long knew 
that it was difficult 
for him to win because

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of how he was perceived, 
and because of how the 
systems that he tried

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to navigate

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Treated him.

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You can't win.

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I remember hearing that and 
it it is striking to hear

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someone say that as he 
was dying, Robert, you 
touched on this earlier,

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but I wanna when you're talking 
about the idea of not being able

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to win.

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You tell the story of 
George Floyd's great 
great great grandparents

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and the their land 
being taken away.

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They had all this land in North

252
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Carolina was taken away 
because it became the 
target of white resentment.

253
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How did that impact, 
of course, both his 
ancestors but also George

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Floyd's family and the 
fact that I want to if 
you could just oppose

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that really quickly with

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Derek Chauvin's family 
and that the fact that 
they were able to take

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part of the prosperity 
in America and the 
sort of hope and dreams

258
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that this country promises.

259
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Well early in the book.

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We talk about George 
Floyd's ancestry and

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his great grandfather, 
Hillary Thomas Stewart.

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00:10:34,366 --> 00:10:36,000
After he was emancipated,

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he was enslaved before

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He was able to become 
one of the wealthiest 
landowners in North Carolina.

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The family had talked 
about this for generations, 
and public records

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show that it is true.

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Ah, but because of unscrupulous

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Officials and tax 
schemes and fraud.

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They seize that 
land from Hillary

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00:11:00,433 --> 00:11:05,400
Thomas Stewart, and before 
he's even to able to make 
one intergenerational

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transfer before he's 
able to pass on anything.

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That his ears it's wiped away 
and that money never comes back.

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00:11:16,666 --> 00:11:17,666
What

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00:11:17,666 --> 00:11:19,133
that does is.

275
00:11:19,133 --> 00:11:22,166
It sets the family on a road 
to poverty that it can't

276
00:11:22,166 --> 00:11:24,400
fully escaped there.

277
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,533
So they suffocate under 
the pressures of the 
sharecropping system.

278
00:11:28,533 --> 00:11:32,733
They feel they need to 
leave their home and 
go to someplace else

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00:11:32,733 --> 00:11:36,200
go to Texas in hopes of 
getting a better shot.

280
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,066
But there's also something 
that changes within 
the psyche to know

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00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:44,633
that within one generation, 
everything you earn 
for could be gone.

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And so

283
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Growing up.

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00:11:46,966 --> 00:11:49,800
George Floyd was around 
a family that believed

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00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,666
Keep your head down.

286
00:11:52,666 --> 00:11:56,900
Don't try to make a big 
scene because if you do 
if you make a mistake,

287
00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:59,700
a white person will 
take advantage of it.

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00:11:59,700 --> 00:12:01,033
Imagine what that does

289
00:12:01,033 --> 00:12:04,233
to your psyche and your 
ambitions for the world.

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00:12:04,233 --> 00:12:05,566
If that's the message,

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00:12:05,566 --> 00:12:08,500
if that's the story 
of your family

292
00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:11,000
Contrast that to Derek 
Chauvin's family.

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00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,366
Ah, which

294
00:12:13,366 --> 00:12:15,700
Came to this country 
freely on a ship.

295
00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:18,766
The ship was called 
the Antarctica.

296
00:12:18,766 --> 00:12:22,766
And they settled in Detroit 
and its surroundings.

297
00:12:22,766 --> 00:12:24,266
They started doing,

298
00:12:24,266 --> 00:12:26,733
uh as migrant laborers.

299
00:12:26,733 --> 00:12:29,666
They started working 
in the fields

300
00:12:29,666 --> 00:12:33,466
and then graduating up to 
owning their own business.

301
00:12:33,466 --> 00:12:35,133
And Derek Chauvin

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00:12:35,133 --> 00:12:39,466
he's born in the mini 
Minneapolis suburbs 
in the twin cities.

303
00:12:41,366 --> 00:12:44,866
To a middle class 
suburban family is not a 
particularly good students

304
00:12:44,866 --> 00:12:49,466
much like George Floyd, but he's 
given opportunities in his life

305
00:12:49,466 --> 00:12:51,833
and he has a dream.

306
00:12:51,833 --> 00:12:56,133
Uh, watching Starsky 
and Hutch that one day 
he can be an enforcer

307
00:12:56,133 --> 00:13:00,633
of the law and all the 
systems worked to do that.

308
00:13:00,633 --> 00:13:02,600
And as we saw towards

309
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,166
the end of his life 
when we go through the 
records of Derek Chauvin's

310
00:13:06,166 --> 00:13:08,733
police career, he was enabled.

311
00:13:08,733 --> 00:13:13,233
To carry on the way 
he wanted to carry on, 
including this excessive

312
00:13:13,233 --> 00:13:17,100
use of force that 
murdered a man.

313
00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:19,566
Well, it's incredible 
Reporting again.

314
00:13:19,566 --> 00:13:23,066
The book is his name is George

315
00:13:23,066 --> 00:13:24,200
Floyd definitely read it.

316
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:25,200
It's essential reading.

317
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:26,200
I think we'll have

318
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:27,400
to leave it there.

319
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,433
Thank you so much to 
Toluse and to Robert for

320
00:13:29,433 --> 00:13:32,800
joining us for writing 
this and for sharing your 
reporting on this book.