1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,540 ANNOUNCER: This is the Washington Week Webcast Extra. 2 00:00:07,540 --> 00:00:08,690 GWEN IFILL: Hello, I'm Gwen Ifill. 3 00:00:08,690 --> 00:00:11,870 I'm joined around the table by Molly Ball of The Atlantic, Chuck Babington of the 4 00:00:11,870 --> 00:00:15,010 Associated Press, Dan Balz of The Washington Post, and Yochi Dreazen of Foreign Policy 5 00:00:15,010 --> 00:00:17,620 magazine. 6 00:00:17,620 --> 00:00:20,810 As we enter this Memorial Day weekend, we thought it might be fitting to talk about one 7 00:00:20,810 --> 00:00:24,150 of the issues following our veterans once they return home. 8 00:00:24,150 --> 00:00:29,130 The Pentagon has recently decided to end its suicide prevention program, Vets4Warriors. 9 00:00:29,130 --> 00:00:32,960 The program is only five years old, but it has already assisted tens of thousands of 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,560 veterans. But it is at risk, isn't it, Yochi? 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:36,930 YOCHI DREAZEN: It is. 12 00:00:36,930 --> 00:00:39,470 And this was a program that was being operated from this nondescript call center in New 13 00:00:39,470 --> 00:00:41,060 Jersey. 14 00:00:41,060 --> 00:00:44,740 It is staffed only by veterans, the idea being that if you are a veteran speaking to 15 00:00:44,740 --> 00:00:47,910 someone else who had served, you might be more comfortable than talking to a civilian - 16 00:00:47,910 --> 00:00:50,710 you'd think, this person went through what I went through, they speak the language, they 17 00:00:50,710 --> 00:00:52,570 came from the same world. 18 00:00:52,570 --> 00:00:56,120 And it's being molded into the military's kind of overarching program called Military 19 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:57,750 OneSource. 20 00:00:57,750 --> 00:01:01,990 And it's going to save the Pentagon about $5 million, which is so insignificant for a 21 00:01:01,990 --> 00:01:05,090 place that spends close to a billion dollars a year on mental health, and it's just 22 00:01:05,090 --> 00:01:07,130 inexplicable. 23 00:01:07,130 --> 00:01:11,570 GWEN IFILL: How effective has this been, as this particular subset - I mean, it seems 24 00:01:11,570 --> 00:01:15,200 to make sense that you would try to consolidate all your efforts, but has this been 25 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,610 successful in a unique way? YOCHI DREAZEN: It has. 26 00:01:17,610 --> 00:01:22,480 It's had about 110,000 calls just in the last two or three years, and the people who 27 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,610 call call in part because they know who they're going to get on the phone. 28 00:01:25,610 --> 00:01:28,920 They know it will be a veteran - it won't be another volunteer, it won't be a civilian. 29 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,850 They know exactly who they're going to reach. 30 00:01:30,850 --> 00:01:35,120 So to get rid of that program and bring it into this kind of bigger overarching program, 31 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,590 which has many flaws - including the fact that not everyone who answers the phone is a 32 00:01:38,590 --> 00:01:42,670 veteran - is mildly inexplicable. And we broke this story last week. 33 00:01:42,670 --> 00:01:48,870 Yesterday then saw Robert Menendez and Cory Booker, the senators from New Jersey, four 34 00:01:48,870 --> 00:01:51,870 members of the House from New Jersey, write a letter to the secretary of Defense to say, 35 00:01:51,870 --> 00:01:54,300 why are you doing this? Reconsider it. Review it. 36 00:01:54,300 --> 00:01:57,370 Whether it's enough to save it is probably unlikely, but at least they're paying 37 00:01:57,370 --> 00:01:59,640 attention to the decision. GWEN IFILL: OK, thank you. 38 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,280 Dan, you wrote a story this week about the money that's driving this campaign. 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,550 If there's one thing that we know is consistent, and that - and only seems to get bigger 40 00:02:07,550 --> 00:02:11,320 and more unwieldy, it's the degree to which money is driving who is in this race, who is 41 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,170 not, who gets heard. DAN BALZ: Well, I mean, the public gets hurt. 42 00:02:15,170 --> 00:02:18,570 GWEN IFILL: No, who gets heard. DAN BALZ: Oh, who gets heard, sorry. 43 00:02:18,570 --> 00:02:25,440 You know, what we - what we are seeing in this campaign is an almost exponential 44 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,810 distortion of what we've seen in the past. 45 00:02:28,810 --> 00:02:31,280 It's largely because of the role of the super PACs. 46 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,480 Super PACs were a relatively new entity in 2012. They played a role. 47 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,920 You could argue that in the general election they weren't that significant. 48 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:42,530 In the primaries, with the Republicans, they probably did have real impact, both in 49 00:02:42,530 --> 00:02:47,100 preserving the candidacies of some of the candidates who otherwise were underfunded or in 50 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:50,260 helping Mitt Romney swat away those challenges. 51 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:55,830 What you're seeing now - and in many ways Jeb Bush personifies this - is the centrality 52 00:02:55,830 --> 00:03:01,070 of a super PAC in the thinking and the strategy and the preparation by a candidate. 53 00:03:01,070 --> 00:03:03,040 Jeb - GWEN IFILL: Even the staffing. 54 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,710 DAN BALZ: Jeb Bush is not an official candidate, in part because he is spending much of 55 00:03:07,710 --> 00:03:11,680 this first part of the year stockpiling money into his super PAC. 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:17,190 It is in some ways a mockery of the way the campaign finance system ought to be run. 57 00:03:17,190 --> 00:03:21,360 He's playing within the rules. I'm not saying he's breaking the rules. 58 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,060 But he's stretching the spirit of the law. 59 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:31,870 And it points up, again, the shredding of the system we've had really for - that we had 60 00:03:31,870 --> 00:03:36,680 for 30 years in financing particularly the primaries and the general election, and that's 61 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,250 all gone now and this is kind of the Wild West. 62 00:03:39,250 --> 00:03:41,920 GWEN IFILL: It caught my ear that Hillary Clinton has said on more than one occasion on 63 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,690 the campaign trail she thinks this is a terrible thing the way the money system has 64 00:03:45,690 --> 00:03:48,950 evolved, but I don't hear her taking herself out of that. DAN BALZ: Well, no. 65 00:03:48,950 --> 00:03:53,200 I mean, she said she wants a constitutional amendment if necessary, and she took the 66 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,900 extraordinary step of essentially saying I will have a litmus test for Supreme Court 67 00:03:56,900 --> 00:04:00,900 nominees people who would overturn Citizens United, which was the case that opened a lot 68 00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:03,300 of this up. 69 00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:09,580 And yet she is operating in an environment in which there's going to be some direct 70 00:04:09,580 --> 00:04:13,740 coordination with a super PAC that is stretching the limits of what the law would 71 00:04:13,740 --> 00:04:18,080 suggest, and there's no single step that she's been prepared to take. 72 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,290 I understand no candidate, you know, wants to unilaterally disarm. 73 00:04:21,290 --> 00:04:23,190 GWEN IFILL: We've heard that. DAN BALZ: We all get that. 74 00:04:23,190 --> 00:04:28,870 And yet there's nothing that she's been willing to do about her own candidacy that says 75 00:04:28,870 --> 00:04:31,830 I'm going to - you know, I'm going to sort of put my money where my mouth is. 76 00:04:31,830 --> 00:04:34,670 GWEN IFILL: Molly, let's talk about some of the people on the fringes of this race, 77 00:04:34,670 --> 00:04:37,940 because you wrote two pretty good pieces - actually, very good pieces - in the last 78 00:04:37,940 --> 00:04:39,910 couple of weeks. MOLLY BALL: Thank you, Gwen. (Laughter.) 79 00:04:39,910 --> 00:04:46,780 GWEN IFILL: We're being generous - about John Kasich, the governor of Ohio, and Lindsey 80 00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:50,350 Graham, the senator from South Carolina, who you argue we should be taking seriously. 81 00:04:50,350 --> 00:04:53,320 MOLLY BALL: Well, I didn't - I'm not predicting that he's going to get any traction as 82 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,480 a presidential candidate. 83 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,120 But it is interesting, you know, we were talking the main show about that crowded debate 84 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,990 stage. 85 00:04:59,990 --> 00:05:03,200 These are both candidates who could potentially be excluded from the debates, despite 86 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:08,870 the fact that, you know, one of them is a three-term senator who's been a powerful voice 87 00:05:08,870 --> 00:05:13,440 in the Republican Party in Washington for more than two decades and the other is the 88 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,770 two-term governor of Ohio who also served for nearly two decades in the House of 89 00:05:17,770 --> 00:05:21,920 Representatives and who Newt Gingrich gives a large share of the credit for balancing the 90 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,220 budget in the 1990s. 91 00:05:24,220 --> 00:05:27,990 So these are both people whose - who ought to have the gravitas to entitle them to have 92 00:05:27,990 --> 00:05:33,290 a voice in this race, and both interesting candidates who I think ought not be 93 00:05:33,290 --> 00:05:36,860 underestimated. Kasich is a - puts on a compelling show. 94 00:05:36,860 --> 00:05:41,170 When you get him in front of a group of people, he's got a sort of unorthodox, authentic 95 00:05:41,170 --> 00:05:43,770 presentation. GWEN IFILL: That's a very nice way of putting it. (Laughter.) 96 00:05:43,770 --> 00:05:46,150 MOLLY BALL: He's a little rough around the edges in a way that I think people can find 97 00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:48,080 pretty appealing. 98 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,180 And Lindsey Graham's been going around to some of these early state cattle calls, and 99 00:05:51,180 --> 00:05:55,120 the activists respond well to him because he's loose and he's funny, he's sort of irreverent. 100 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,120 He's not what you expect. 101 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:02,510 But either of these guys, you know, it'll be tough for them to break in, just given how 102 00:06:02,510 --> 00:06:04,560 many other people are out there. 103 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,590 GWEN IFILL: And we're waiting to see Governor - former Governor O'Malley of Maryland 104 00:06:07,590 --> 00:06:10,970 get into this race, too, and see whether he can break through on the Democratic side. 105 00:06:10,970 --> 00:06:14,110 MOLLY BALL: That's right. His announcement is scheduled for the 106 00:06:14,110 --> 00:06:17,270 30th of this month in Baltimore. GWEN IFILL: Governor Pataki's on the 28th. 107 00:06:17,270 --> 00:06:19,840 (Laughter.) What? I'm just saying. YOCHI DREAZEN: Thought about him. 108 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:23,480 MOLLY BALL: My calendar is full of presidential announcements as well. 109 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,610 It's an exciting time. 110 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:29,990 But you know, I think O'Malley has an advantage that he is pretty much guaranteed a 111 00:06:29,990 --> 00:06:34,520 large amount of airtime because there are not as many candidates on the Democratic side 112 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,630 and because he gives Hillary a foil, if he's willing to do it. 113 00:06:38,630 --> 00:06:45,970 And both O'Malley and Bernie Sanders have been a little bit cautious in how much they're 114 00:06:45,970 --> 00:06:51,760 willing to really criticize Hillary, but I think the media is hungry for a foil for 115 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,210 Hillary and is hungry to see her get an actual contest. 116 00:06:56,210 --> 00:06:57,550 GWEN IFILL: It'll be fun to see. 117 00:06:57,550 --> 00:07:00,620 And of course, we have Rick Santorum coming up soon, as well. 118 00:07:00,620 --> 00:07:03,450 MOLLY BALL: That's right. GWEN IFILL: Chuck, Congress, Capitol Hill. 119 00:07:03,450 --> 00:07:07,690 We talked about the trade bill. We talked about the NSA bulk collection data. 120 00:07:07,690 --> 00:07:11,530 But also they actually - well, may have been - kicked it down over a couple of months, 121 00:07:11,530 --> 00:07:14,500 but a big, huge highway bill, infrastructure. 122 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:17,440 We were obsessed with it only a week ago, after the Amtrak crash. 123 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,870 CHARLES BABINGTON: Yeah, it was - it was set to - it is set to expire on June 1, right, 124 00:07:20,870 --> 00:07:25,900 and generally out - you know, bridges and highways, summer, warm weather's the best time 125 00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:28,470 to work on them. 126 00:07:28,470 --> 00:07:31,510 It looks like there will probably be maybe a two-month extension to keep it going. 127 00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:37,690 But when this is the type of stopgap - resorting to stopgap measures that we see over 128 00:07:37,690 --> 00:07:39,960 and over in this Congress. 129 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,650 And it wasn't that long ago that things like highway funding and, you know, funding 130 00:07:44,650 --> 00:07:47,560 basic parts of the government weren't that hard to do. 131 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,630 And now, because the partisanship - the main reason is that partisanship has become so 132 00:07:52,630 --> 00:07:57,240 extreme and the divisions are so deep that it's hard to get even basic things done. 133 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,340 GWEN IFILL: I wonder if the death of pork-barrel spending, which used to be a robust 134 00:08:01,340 --> 00:08:09,010 part of congressional action, also contributed to lack of agreement on simple things 135 00:08:09,010 --> 00:08:11,450 like, should I resurface this bridge. 136 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:14,520 CHARLES BABINGTON: I can't tell you how often I hear a congressional leader say, in 137 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:19,060 private of course or off the record, you know, if only we could do earmarks again, you 138 00:08:19,060 --> 00:08:23,490 know, give favors to this congressman or that senator for, you know, a local project or 139 00:08:23,490 --> 00:08:27,570 something. And sometimes they were construction-type projects. 140 00:08:27,570 --> 00:08:30,870 But those were the - they greased the skids for bigger problems. 141 00:08:30,870 --> 00:08:33,270 And you know, they had - they had a smell to them, and that's why they were done away 142 00:08:33,270 --> 00:08:34,840 with. 143 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,410 And yet you can make an argument that they were a reasonably small price in the big 144 00:08:39,410 --> 00:08:42,290 picture to get bigger things done. GWEN IFILL: OK. 145 00:08:42,290 --> 00:08:45,150 Well, no more, but maybe it'll come back because of that very reason. 146 00:08:45,150 --> 00:08:48,990 That's what politics is, trading. Thank you, everybody. Thank you for watching as well. 147 00:08:48,990 --> 00:08:52,430 While you're online, check out everything else our panelists are covering in News You 148 00:08:52,430 --> 00:08:57,370 Need to Know, every day at our PBS.org/WashingtonWeek website. 149 00:08:57,370 --> 00:09:10,520 And we'll see you next time on the Washington Week Webcast Extra.