WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.610 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Indictments in the Russia probe and paralysis in Washington over gun 00:05.610 --> 00:10.490 align:start control. I'm Robert Costa. Seventeen Americans gunned down in Florida. 00:10.490 --> 00:16.160 align:start Another week where leaders face the question what now, tonight on Washington Week. 00:16.160 --> 00:24.140 align:start PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) Today I speak to a nation in grief. 00:24.140 --> 00:28.960 align:start ROBERT COSTA: In the wake of another mass shooting, an emotionally charged debate. 00:28.960 --> 00:32.620 align:start REPRESENTATIVE MIKE THOMPSON (D-CA): (From video.) Mr. Speaker, can you tell us when the 00:32.620 --> 00:36.220 align:start House may muster the courage to take up the issue of gun violence? (Cheers, applause.) 00:36.220 --> 00:38.670 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Democrats demand action. 00:38.670 --> 00:42.380 align:start Some Republicans say tougher laws would not have prevented the massacre. 00:42.380 --> 00:45.860 align:start SENATOR MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): (From video.) The struggle up to this point has been that 00:45.860 --> 00:49.810 align:start most of the proposals that have been offered would not have prevented not just 00:49.810 --> 00:53.060 align:start yesterday's tragedy, but any of those in recent history. 00:53.060 --> 00:57.100 align:start ROBERT COSTA: From Columbine to Sandy Hook to Parkland, Florida. 00:57.100 --> 01:00.040 align:start PROTESTER: (From video.) President Trump, please do something! 01:00.040 --> 01:03.900 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Is Washington any closer to addressing gun violence? 01:03.900 --> 01:09.950 align:start Plus, breaking news: The Justice Department charges 13 Russians with interfering in the 01:09.950 --> 01:14.290 align:start U.S. election, and turmoil once again in the West Wing. 01:14.290 --> 01:18.050 align:start REPORTER: (From video.) Mr. Bannon, do you plan to answer questions today? 01:18.050 --> 01:21.840 align:start ROBERT COSTA: As Steve Bannon is questioned in the Russia probe and Congress 01:21.840 --> 01:25.930 align:start investigates Rob Porter, who resigned amid accusations of domestic violence. 01:25.930 --> 01:31.570 align:start We discuss it all with Michael Crowley of POLITICO, Kimberly Atkins of The Boston 01:31.570 --> 01:37.880 align:start Herald, Dan Balz of The Washington Post, Jeanne Cummings of The Wall Street Journal, and 01:37.880 --> 01:41.820 align:start Carl Hulse of The New York Times. 01:41.820 --> 01:49.210 align:start ANNOUNCER: This is Washington Week. Once again, from Washington, moderator Robert Costa. 01:49.210 --> 01:56.410 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Good evening. Once again, another school shooting, another heart-wrenching 01:56.410 --> 02:02.700 align:start tragedy, a massacre that has rattled the country, and it has reignited the partisan debate 02:02.700 --> 02:08.450 align:start over the Second Amendment. Big questions keep lingering each time these nightmares flash: 02:08.450 --> 02:12.130 align:start Should Congress and President Trump take action? 02:12.130 --> 02:16.210 align:start And what is the government's role in protecting citizens from gun violence? 02:16.210 --> 02:21.710 align:start Nikolas Cruz is charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder, one for each of the people 02:21.710 --> 02:26.350 align:start he is accused of gunning down inside his former Florida high school. 02:26.350 --> 02:30.830 align:start In his remarks to the nation, President Trump stressed the need to address mental health 02:30.830 --> 02:35.200 align:start issues but steered clear of any discussion of gun policy. 02:35.200 --> 02:39.910 align:start PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: (From video.) Our administration is working closely with local 02:39.910 --> 02:44.290 align:start authorities to investigate the shooting and learn everything we can. 02:44.290 --> 02:50.230 align:start We are committed to working with state and local leaders to help secure our schools and 02:50.230 --> 02:55.300 align:start tackle the difficult issue of mental health. 02:55.300 --> 03:02.960 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Investigators say Cruz fired nearly 150 shots from his assault-style AR-15 03:02.960 --> 03:09.680 align:start rifle, a weapon he purchased legally. Gun policy sharply divides this country, as you know. 03:09.680 --> 03:15.480 align:start When it comes to gun control, 18 percent of Republicans support the idea, 78 percent of 03:15.480 --> 03:21.420 align:start Democrats do, according to a Pew Research poll, at least, from a gun poll last June. 03:21.420 --> 03:27.190 align:start So where we stand, Carl, is we have this issue of gun control that comes up after every 03:27.190 --> 03:31.360 align:start mass shooting. Who's going to drive what comes next? 03:31.360 --> 03:35.420 align:start Will it be President Trump, or will it be Republicans in Congress? 03:35.420 --> 03:39.770 align:start CARL HULSE: The question is, will anything come next? After every one of these events I'm 03:39.770 --> 03:44.250 align:start always asked: is this going to be the one that forces the issue? I just don't see it 03:44.250 --> 03:48.710 align:start happening again. There's no enthusiasm for it among Republicans, and they have the 03:48.710 --> 03:54.820 align:start majority and the votes. The NRA has a stranglehold in some respects on that party. 03:54.820 --> 03:59.540 align:start They don't want to move away from that. They've got a tough election cycle coming up. 03:59.540 --> 04:03.270 align:start They don't want to do something that could dampen enthusiasm among their voters. 04:03.270 --> 04:08.820 align:start I think there'll be some plans that come up, but it didn't get through after Newtown. 04:08.820 --> 04:13.570 align:start Now, I do think there's a couple of differences. Democrats, for years, were staying 04:13.570 --> 04:18.340 align:start away from this issue entirely. They didn't even bring it up. And now they see this as 04:18.340 --> 04:22.750 align:start something they do want to talk about. I think it's going to be an election issue. 04:22.750 --> 04:28.380 align:start I would say that eons ago I was a reporter in Broward County, where this occurred. 04:28.380 --> 04:33.650 align:start And at the time, Broward County enacted one of the toughest gun control laws in the 04:33.650 --> 04:38.250 align:start country for background checks. It was later overturned by some state policy. 04:38.250 --> 04:43.090 align:start But that's an area that has embraced gun control and gun safety. And I think that's one 04:43.090 --> 04:47.220 align:start of the reasons you're hearing this outcry from there, from people who want something done. 04:47.220 --> 04:51.540 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And you can hear it, the powerful statements from these parents, the 04:51.540 --> 04:55.430 align:start families this week, Jeanne. I mean, the people in Broward County certainly asking 04:55.430 --> 04:59.220 align:start President Trump for gun control. And Carl mentioned that some plans could come up. 04:59.220 --> 05:03.190 align:start There was breaking news tonight that Senator Feinstein of California, a Democrat, wants 05:03.190 --> 05:08.440 align:start to try to propose legislation to raise the age of purchasing a firearm to 21. 05:08.440 --> 05:13.020 align:start Nikolas Cruz, of course, was 19. Could, as Carl said, the midterms and concerns 05:13.020 --> 05:16.300 align:start about suburban voters prompt some action on something like that? 05:16.300 --> 05:22.610 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: No. It won't. The NRA is just too good. What they'll do is we have a 05:22.610 --> 05:30.570 align:start very familiar cycle that we're going through. We have initial outrage, sadness, and 05:30.570 --> 05:36.260 align:start demands for action. Then we have a few things proposed. And then they put the brakes on it. 05:36.260 --> 05:42.690 align:start And then two weeks from now, or two days from now, some other big story's going to break, 05:42.690 --> 05:48.000 align:start people are going to forget about it, and all - the fever will go down, and the bill will 05:48.000 --> 05:54.100 align:start never come up. I mean, if they couldn't do those bump stocks after Vegas, that - you 05:54.100 --> 05:59.110 align:start know, that has nothing to do with whether you can own a gun or not. 05:59.110 --> 06:05.340 align:start But to say an 18-year-old or 19-year-old can't buy a gun is going to be - that's a much 06:05.340 --> 06:10.590 align:start bigger step for them to take, than to ban bump stocks. And they couldn't even do that. 06:10.590 --> 06:14.190 align:start KIMBERLY ATKINS: I think the one difference that we might see here - and I generally 06:14.190 --> 06:18.030 align:start agree with everything that you said - is this time, unlike Newtown, unlike some of these 06:18.030 --> 06:23.160 align:start other instances - you had young people, high-school age students, describing and 06:23.160 --> 06:28.340 align:start videotaping a massacre taking place in their schools, and then speaking afterwards about it 06:28.340 --> 06:33.800 align:start and the need for change in a very eloquent way, that I think is at least registering on a 06:33.800 --> 06:37.960 align:start local level at the very least in terms of local officials. Maybe on a state level you 06:37.960 --> 06:42.590 align:start already see them calling out people like Senator Marco Rubio to act. I mean, all the 06:42.590 --> 06:47.850 align:start way up to the president. So I think if that approach - really a systemic community 06:47.850 --> 06:52.510 align:start saying, look, we want a change here, starting at the local level, going to the state, 06:52.510 --> 06:56.260 align:start and then going to Washington - that could be the beginning of something that's 06:56.260 --> 06:59.130 align:start going to change. But in terms of Washington, I think you're right. 06:59.130 --> 07:01.830 align:start ROBERT COSTA: What about President Trump's response? You've observed presidents 07:01.830 --> 07:05.470 align:start for decades. He was confronted with another crisis, another tragedy. 07:05.470 --> 07:10.140 align:start DAN BALZ: Yes. You know, he struggles at moments like this. 07:10.140 --> 07:15.710 align:start The statement that he read off the teleprompter had certain notes that were necessary, 07:15.710 --> 07:21.570 align:start and, you know, things that people expect from a president. But his 07:21.570 --> 07:28.410 align:start unwillingness to talk even a little bit about guns and the gun violence that exists in 07:28.410 --> 07:34.780 align:start this country, even rhetorically, says that he's not prepared to take up this challenge on 07:34.780 --> 07:38.730 align:start that side. He talked about mental health, there are - there are legitimate and important 07:38.730 --> 07:43.280 align:start issues on the mental health side that need to be dealt with as well. This is not an 07:43.280 --> 07:49.120 align:start either/or situation. But he, in a sense, has cast his lot on one side of that and not the 07:49.120 --> 07:55.120 align:start other. And I think that that reflects, in a sense, the great cultural divide on this issue. 07:55.120 --> 07:58.980 align:start I mean, this issue has severely divided this country. 07:58.980 --> 08:05.130 align:start And as long as we are as divided as we are politically and culturally it's very difficult 08:05.130 --> 08:07.940 align:start to see a way forward to try to get any action on it. 08:07.940 --> 08:12.070 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: Just one last note on Florida in particular. The one person who's 08:12.070 --> 08:18.220 align:start really in a bad spot, or a difficult spot, is Governor Scott because he - those are his 08:18.220 --> 08:26.320 align:start constituents who are demanding action, and he wants to run for the Senate, and he was 08:26.320 --> 08:30.720 align:start going to make the decision about running for the Senate at the end of the legislative 08:30.720 --> 08:37.190 align:start session. So a lot of important things are all coming together at the same time for the 08:37.190 --> 08:43.050 align:start governor, and that's going to make his every decision he makes have much bigger meaning. 08:43.050 --> 08:46.730 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Scott a key player, but what about President Trump again? 08:46.730 --> 08:51.550 align:start Because he is in some ways so ideological on some issues, but on others he's very 08:51.550 --> 08:54.210 align:start non-ideological, and he reads this New York Post - 08:54.210 --> 08:57.550 align:start CARL HULSE: Well, in the past he had supported an assault weapons ban. 08:57.550 --> 09:02.000 align:start And, you know, this is sort of the New York Trump history that comes out, where he has 09:02.000 --> 09:07.150 align:start said that, you know, there could be some compromise there. But I just don't see it 09:07.150 --> 09:11.400 align:start happening now. He has - you know, he's thrown his lot in with the NRA. 09:11.400 --> 09:14.910 align:start They became a really important group to him, and he - 09:14.910 --> 09:17.680 align:start DAN BALZ: Well, they were one of the earliest endorsers of his candidacy. 09:17.680 --> 09:20.250 align:start CARL HULSE: Right, and he's like, you know, nobody's going to protect your Second 09:20.250 --> 09:22.360 align:start Amendment rights like I'm going to protect them. 09:22.360 --> 09:24.990 align:start DAN BALZ: He is aware of who was with him early and loyally. 09:24.990 --> 09:28.510 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: They were the only outside group that advertised on his behalf, and 09:28.510 --> 09:33.760 align:start they spent $31 million - twice as much as they spent in any other presidential campaign. 09:33.760 --> 09:36.570 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And that's what we're going to have to watch: Does he look at that New 09:36.570 --> 09:39.680 align:start York Post that urged him to take action, or does he listen to the NRA? 09:39.680 --> 09:42.810 align:start So much of this is about the Republican Congress, but it's about President Trump. 09:42.810 --> 09:46.350 align:start We're going to have to turn to some breaking news that dominated Friday, breaking news 09:46.350 --> 09:50.420 align:start in the Russia probe. The Justice Department announced today that it has indicted 09:50.420 --> 09:56.890 align:start 13 Russian nationals for alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election. 09:56.890 --> 10:00.640 align:start DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL ROD ROSENSTEIN: (From video.) The defendants allegedly conducted 10:00.640 --> 10:05.940 align:start what they called information warfare against the United States, with the stated goal of 10:05.940 --> 10:12.240 align:start spreading distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general. 10:12.240 --> 10:16.100 align:start ROBERT COSTA: President Trump responded to the indictments with a tweet. 10:16.100 --> 10:22.380 align:start He wrote: "Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I 10:22.380 --> 10:26.720 align:start would run for President. The results of the election were not impacted. 10:26.720 --> 10:30.290 align:start The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!" 10:30.290 --> 10:34.510 align:start Joining me now with more on the indictments is Michael Crowley, who covers national 10:34.510 --> 10:37.670 align:start security for POLITICO and a friend of Washington Week. 10:37.670 --> 10:42.440 align:start Michael, the indictment accuses the defendants of using social media platforms and fake 10:42.440 --> 10:47.300 align:start American personas to meddle in the 2016 election, specifically to support President 10:47.300 --> 10:51.580 align:start Trump's campaign and damage other candidates. What's the significance of these 10:51.580 --> 10:56.240 align:start indictments, and especially of the detail that Rosenstein spelled out? 10:56.240 --> 11:01.900 align:start MICHAEL CROWLEY: Yeah, Robert, we have known for a while that there was this widespread 11:01.900 --> 11:06.590 align:start Russian government-directed effort to influence the election, and that it had heavily 11:06.590 --> 11:15.050 align:start used social media - Twitter bots and trolls, fake news on Facebook - as a way of trying 11:15.050 --> 11:20.290 align:start to change voter attitudes, mainly to work against Hillary Clinton and in favor of Donald 11:20.290 --> 11:25.830 align:start Trump. We had - we have seen prior revelations to this effect over many months. 11:25.830 --> 11:32.290 align:start But what the Mueller indictment shows us today is a new level of detail that, number one, 11:32.290 --> 11:38.670 align:start gives us a sharper focus than we had before into how these operations worked; number two, 11:38.670 --> 11:44.020 align:start you know, presents the U.S. government as saying we are so confident about this that 11:44.020 --> 11:47.800 align:start we can bring criminal charges against specific individuals. Previously, it had been 11:47.800 --> 11:53.290 align:start kind of shadowy internet operators whose names we didn't necessarily know, 11:53.290 --> 11:59.030 align:start organizations with names like Cozy Bear. Now there are 13 named defendants. 11:59.030 --> 12:03.450 align:start And also, I think most startlingly, and something that should really wake Americans up to 12:03.450 --> 12:08.870 align:start the seriousness of this, the fact that Russians actually came into the United States to, 12:08.870 --> 12:14.450 align:start according to the indictment, collect intelligence and to essentially recruit what the 12:14.450 --> 12:20.000 align:start indictment calls unwitting U.S. citizens to participate in this scheme to divide 12:20.000 --> 12:25.060 align:start Americans during the election, and to support Trump and to damage Hillary Clinton. 12:25.060 --> 12:29.220 align:start So these Russians were actually helping to arrange campaign rallies in favor of Donald 12:29.220 --> 12:34.430 align:start Trump, and in some cases paying these unwitting Americans. Two amazing examples. One is that 12:34.430 --> 12:40.790 align:start a woman was paid to dress up in a prison costume like she was Hillary Clinton behind bars, 12:40.790 --> 12:46.160 align:start and the Russians also paid someone to build a cage to imprison this Hillary impersonator. 12:46.160 --> 12:48.020 align:start ROBERT COSTA: It was wild. 12:48.020 --> 12:49.910 align:start MICHAEL CROWLEY: Just incredible. 12:49.910 --> 12:53.470 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Wild details, Michael, and it revealed a lot. The Russians were here on 12:53.470 --> 12:57.410 align:start the ground, working on their variety of efforts during the course of the campaign. 12:57.410 --> 13:01.290 align:start But if you step back, was this a protection effort for the whole Russia probe, to protect 13:01.290 --> 13:04.850 align:start Bob Mueller as he moves forward? Because President Trump and others in the 13:04.850 --> 13:09.100 align:start administration have called this whole enterprise at some level a hoax. 13:09.100 --> 13:12.670 align:start MICHAEL CROWLEY: So it's hard to know exactly what's on Mueller's mind, but this would 13:12.670 --> 13:17.420 align:start be consistent with that. And you heard Democrats come out today and say this really 13:17.420 --> 13:23.320 align:start shows how serious the nature of this underlying case is, that the Russian interference 13:23.320 --> 13:28.200 align:start is not fake news, it's not a hoax, it's a dire threat to our national security and our 13:28.200 --> 13:31.560 align:start democracy, and you have to take it enormously seriously. 13:31.560 --> 13:34.180 align:start You can't dismiss it, as President Trump has. 13:34.180 --> 13:38.110 align:start And Democrats are saying it's more important - it's clear now it's more important than 13:38.110 --> 13:41.750 align:start ever that Bob Mueller be able to continue doing his job, that he have political 13:41.750 --> 13:45.990 align:start independence, and that Donald Trump back off and not try to disparage and dismiss his 13:45.990 --> 13:48.990 align:start work as part of some kind of a witch hunt. 13:48.990 --> 13:50.980 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Michael Crowley, thank you, as always. 13:50.980 --> 13:52.790 align:start MICHAEL CROWLEY: Thank you, Robert. 13:52.790 --> 13:55.520 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Dan, the significance for President Trump as he confronts 13:55.520 --> 13:58.450 align:start the seriousness of these indictments? 13:58.450 --> 14:01.770 align:start DAN BALZ: Well, I think two things. One is he no longer can describe this 14:01.770 --> 14:07.120 align:start investigation as a hoax or the allegations of Russian meddling as a hoax. 14:07.120 --> 14:13.510 align:start He can continue to say there was no collusion on his part. We wait to see what special 14:13.510 --> 14:17.730 align:start counsel - where he comes down on that. But on the question of genuine interference, 14:17.730 --> 14:21.770 align:start that has been wiped away by the detail that's in this indictment. 14:21.770 --> 14:25.280 align:start It is extraordinary in the level of detail that they have. 14:25.280 --> 14:30.080 align:start But that also puts pressure on him to act, to do something to prevent this in the future. 14:30.080 --> 14:35.600 align:start One of the other criticisms is this administration under this president has done nothing 14:35.600 --> 14:39.800 align:start in any serious way to head this off for 2018 or 2020. 14:39.800 --> 14:43.490 align:start It will become more difficult for the administration to avoid that. 14:43.490 --> 14:45.440 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Will that change at all, Carl? 14:45.440 --> 14:47.780 align:start Will there be pressure from Capitol Hill to address Russian interference? 14:47.780 --> 14:51.720 align:start CARL HULSE: Yeah, I think that the Senate Intelligence report is intended, when it comes 14:51.720 --> 14:53.880 align:start out, to force that action. 14:53.880 --> 14:57.200 align:start I think the Republicans have been very frustrated, who have been involved in the Senate 14:57.200 --> 15:01.780 align:start investigation particularly, that the administration just hasn't been acting on this 15:01.780 --> 15:06.780 align:start because they think it undermines the president's credibility, and I think people are 15:06.780 --> 15:11.340 align:start seriously worried that the Russians are going to do this again. 15:11.340 --> 15:16.200 align:start I do think your point on the - I think this was good job security for Bob Mueller to get 15:16.200 --> 15:20.640 align:start this out and show - it would make it really hard now to push him out. 15:20.640 --> 15:23.640 align:start You would look like you'd be undermining a credible investigation. 15:23.640 --> 15:26.950 align:start ROBERT COSTA: And Mueller keeps moving, Jeanne. I mean, this week we saw that 15:26.950 --> 15:30.820 align:start Rick Gates, a former advisor to Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign chairman, looks 15:30.820 --> 15:34.090 align:start like he's cooperating with the Mueller probe amid all of these indictments. 15:34.090 --> 15:37.930 align:start And yet, so little is known about what Mueller's up to until these things are revealed. 15:37.930 --> 15:42.590 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: Absolutely. They've done a fabulous job of keeping everything under 15:42.590 --> 15:47.800 align:start wraps, and largely that's because they know that they'd be the first dead body if they 15:47.800 --> 15:53.840 align:start said something and Mueller found out. But we have - we've gone from Ukraine to lobbying 15:53.840 --> 15:58.110 align:start to lying, and now we're getting to the heart of the Russia probe itself. 15:58.110 --> 16:02.950 align:start So his - it is an expansive investigation. 16:02.950 --> 16:08.910 align:start But getting back to Carl's point, you know, we have every head of an intelligence agency 16:08.910 --> 16:14.630 align:start on the Hill this week saying Russia is trying to influence our elections, they're doing 16:14.630 --> 16:22.520 align:start the same things again. And so now this report does add substance to it. The Senate 16:22.520 --> 16:27.880 align:start report will add more momentum to it. And I - there is a tension between state and 16:27.880 --> 16:33.880 align:start federal election officials because these are state events, they're not federal events. 16:33.880 --> 16:38.100 align:start But there are all kinds of things Congress could do. They could give them grants so 16:38.100 --> 16:41.990 align:start they could upgrade their machines. They could give them grants so they could hire 16:41.990 --> 16:46.250 align:start cybersecurity people. They can help. They just need to engage and do it. 16:46.250 --> 16:50.830 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Steve Bannon also talking to Robert Mueller's team this week, the former 16:50.830 --> 16:55.530 align:start White House chief strategist, and went to Capitol Hill, but had a little bit of an 16:55.530 --> 16:58.280 align:start altercation with the House Intelligence Committee. 16:58.280 --> 17:02.390 align:start KIMBERLY ATKINS: Yes, he's still exerting some form of an executive privilege, which 17:02.390 --> 17:06.710 align:start neither I nor any other lawyer that I've ever talked to understands and believes actually 17:06.710 --> 17:09.890 align:start exists. So there's that constant tension there. 17:09.890 --> 17:13.410 align:start But again, he's talking to Robert Mueller I think is the most important thing. 17:13.410 --> 17:16.790 align:start And we've seen from this indictment, from everything else that Robert Mueller and his 17:16.790 --> 17:21.200 align:start team has done how meticulous, how careful, and how thorough they're being. 17:21.200 --> 17:26.770 align:start So to have him before that - before those investigators has to be something that is 17:26.770 --> 17:31.110 align:start unnerving for the Trump White House. They don't know what he's going to say, and 17:31.110 --> 17:35.720 align:start they're probably not going to find out until Mueller is ready to disclose that. 17:35.720 --> 17:40.070 align:start But I also think the important thing about the indictments that we saw against these 13 17:40.070 --> 17:45.420 align:start Russians is in part in order to get movement on the local level, state level or wherever, 17:45.420 --> 17:49.880 align:start you have to convince people that there is a problem. And I think this indictment - 17:49.880 --> 17:53.720 align:start this speaking indictment was meant to tell a story to convince the American people 17:53.720 --> 17:57.810 align:start that this is a big problem, and how deep and expansive it was. 17:57.810 --> 18:01.710 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: It also puts a lot of pressure on Facebook and Twitter. You know - 18:01.710 --> 18:03.400 align:start KIMBERLY ATKINS: Yes. 18:03.400 --> 18:06.210 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Are they publishers? Where is their responsibility? Those questions - 18:06.210 --> 18:09.130 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: Exactly. And, you know, they've been slow-walking whatever 18:09.130 --> 18:13.260 align:start they were going to fix so that, after the complaints from the Senate Intelligence 18:13.260 --> 18:16.680 align:start Committee, this should light a fire under them to do something. 18:16.680 --> 18:20.760 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Amid all this Russia discussion, Dan, we had more intrigue in the White 18:20.760 --> 18:25.180 align:start House. They're scrambling amid the scandal over Rob Porter, the former staff 18:25.180 --> 18:28.350 align:start secretary who faced allegations of domestic abuse. 18:28.350 --> 18:31.400 align:start General John Kelly, the chief of staff, issued a memo today that we obtained at the Post 18:31.400 --> 18:34.860 align:start about how they're trying to change up the whole security clearance process. 18:34.860 --> 18:37.860 align:start It's still pretty hazy in the West Wing on that issue. 18:37.860 --> 18:41.520 align:start DAN BALZ: Well, it is. I mean, earlier in the week there were rumors flying that 18:41.520 --> 18:45.470 align:start John Kelly might be gone by the end of the week. The vice president then went out and 18:45.470 --> 18:49.850 align:start said: I expect to be working with General Kelly for many, many months. Now we have 18:49.850 --> 18:54.690 align:start the release of this memo, which you obtained earlier today, outlining the changes that 18:54.690 --> 18:59.070 align:start they're going to do the security clearance process, which has clearly been a problem. 18:59.070 --> 19:04.270 align:start I took that as a sign that they knew that they had to try to get out ahead of some of 19:04.270 --> 19:08.340 align:start these things, that if that sat there for another week or two that they would be under 19:08.340 --> 19:11.260 align:start tremendous pressure to try to do something. 19:11.260 --> 19:15.480 align:start I mean, they are scrambling to try to bring order back into the White House after a very, 19:15.480 --> 19:18.750 align:start very bad couple of weeks because of the Rob Porter investigation. 19:18.750 --> 19:22.050 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Let's turn to this stalemate over immigration, because that was another 19:22.050 --> 19:26.520 align:start big story this week. This week the Senate failed to advance four immigration bills, 19:26.520 --> 19:30.880 align:start including one backed by President Trump, and a bipartisan proposal that included 19:30.880 --> 19:34.830 align:start protections for young, undocumented immigrants, known as DREAMers. 19:34.830 --> 19:39.670 align:start The Trump-endorsed bill, sponsored by Republican Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, checked 19:39.670 --> 19:44.010 align:start the boxes of the president's four pillars -- $25 billion for border security and the wall 19:44.010 --> 19:48.750 align:start and an end to both the diversity visa lottery program and extended family-based 19:48.750 --> 19:53.650 align:start migration, and a path to citizenship for DREAMers, whose protections are set to expire in 19:53.650 --> 19:59.380 align:start early March. Mr. Trump had threatened to veto any legislation that did not include 19:59.380 --> 20:03.780 align:start those four components. But last month Republicans assured Democrats that there would be 20:03.780 --> 20:08.560 align:start a good-faith debate on immigration as part of a deal to avoid another government 20:08.560 --> 20:12.450 align:start shutdown. Carl, you were up on Capitol Hill. What happened? 20:12.450 --> 20:16.110 align:start CARL HULSE: Gridlock. You know, this is - the Senate was right where they've been for 20:16.110 --> 20:20.340 align:start quite a while. This was supposed to be this big, old-fashioned debate, and it never 20:20.340 --> 20:25.590 align:start really materialized. And, you know, immigration is sort of like gun control in some 20:25.590 --> 20:29.880 align:start respects in the political divide that it causes. They just can't conquer it. 20:29.880 --> 20:34.760 align:start I think that the thing for the program now is what happens in the courts. 20:34.760 --> 20:38.280 align:start Congress has pretty much thrown up its hands at this point. 20:38.280 --> 20:40.350 align:start ROBERT COSTA: So what happens to the DREAMers? 20:40.350 --> 20:43.410 align:start CARL HULSE: I think that they're in the Supreme Court - what happens 20:43.410 --> 20:45.940 align:start in court is going to decide it. 20:45.940 --> 20:51.670 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: Well, there could eventually be some kind of just DACA fix that Trump 20:51.670 --> 20:57.140 align:start could do by himself, without actually doing a whole lot. So we do have the court cases 20:57.140 --> 21:03.140 align:start that are moving through. The courts had prevented the president from abandoning the 21:03.140 --> 21:09.020 align:start DACA program. So the DREAMers can't be deported immediately or by March 5th, when 21:09.020 --> 21:13.350 align:start Trump had said he was - wanted them to get - 21:13.350 --> 21:16.130 align:start CARL HULSE: And you can still sign up if you're expiring. 21:16.130 --> 21:19.950 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: Yes. So Trump has said he might move March 5th. And he can do that. 21:19.950 --> 21:24.480 align:start So we could just see that date - (laughs) - just keep moving deeper and deeper into the 21:24.480 --> 21:29.350 align:start calendar year, because it's such a hot issue for the political season. 21:29.350 --> 21:31.620 align:start KIMBERLY ATKINS: But I'm not sure that's going to happen. 21:31.620 --> 21:36.010 align:start I think when report that says that he's not interested in moving that March 5th date, I'm 21:36.010 --> 21:40.020 align:start inclined to believe them, because Trump is incentivized to use this as a midterm issue 21:40.020 --> 21:43.810 align:start and to continue to hammer away saying: Look, the Democrats ruined DACA. The Democrats 21:43.810 --> 21:47.640 align:start didn't want to move on DACA. I don't think he'll let that issue go, which makes it also 21:47.640 --> 21:53.240 align:start unlikely to me that he would back just a clean DACA bill, even if it were to come out of Congress. 21:53.240 --> 21:55.160 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: Not a bill, just move the date. 21:55.160 --> 21:57.070 align:start KIMBERLY ATKINS: I understand that. JEANNE CUMMINGS: Yeah. 21:57.070 --> 22:00.010 align:start KIMBERLY ATKINS: I don't think he'll do that. I also don't think he'd sign a bill 22:00.010 --> 22:03.080 align:start that was DACA or DACA plus some wall funding, because that takes that issue away. 22:03.080 --> 22:06.750 align:start Without some sort of movement on legal immigration I think that that's going to be dead 22:06.750 --> 22:09.010 align:start in the water in the White House. 22:09.010 --> 22:12.300 align:start DAN BALZ: Talking to - talking to people on both sides today I got the sense that they 22:12.300 --> 22:16.200 align:start believe - both sides believe that if and when the Supreme Court does something that 22:16.200 --> 22:22.820 align:start reopens this - in other words, removes the current protection from the DACA, from the 22:22.820 --> 22:27.660 align:start DREAMers - that there will then be movement. The question is, how narrow is that movement? 22:27.660 --> 22:33.370 align:start To what extent is going to be simply something for the DREAMers and something for border 22:33.370 --> 22:37.250 align:start security? Will the president and the White House demand something more? I'm not 22:37.250 --> 22:40.920 align:start sure they will. But, again, I don't know that there's much room for real 22:40.920 --> 22:43.620 align:start compromise, even in that environment. 22:43.620 --> 22:46.700 align:start JEANNE CUMMINGS: But even then, it could be months before this ever gets to the Supreme 22:46.700 --> 22:52.700 align:start Court because, unlike most cases, the administration has skipped over appellate courts 22:52.700 --> 22:55.300 align:start and taken it straight to the Supreme Court. 22:55.300 --> 22:59.070 align:start That's something the Supreme Court doesn't typically like. 22:59.070 --> 23:03.090 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We'll keep an eye on immigration, a core issue for a lot of people. 23:03.090 --> 23:07.450 align:start There's so much news this week we had to get through it quickly, but we did our best. 23:07.450 --> 23:11.030 align:start Thanks, everybody, for being here. Our conversation will continue online on the 23:11.030 --> 23:15.250 align:start Washington Week Extra, where we'll talk about two more Trump Cabinet members who are 23:15.250 --> 23:19.630 align:start facing scrutiny over their lavish travel expenses. Plus, new questions surrounding a 23:19.630 --> 23:25.540 align:start $130,000 payment from President Trump's personal lawyer to a pornography star. 23:25.540 --> 23:29.400 align:start You can watch that Extra online later tonight and all weekend long at 23:29.400 --> 23:48.650 align:start PBS.org/WashingtonWeek. I'm Robert Costa. Thanks for watching.