1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,670 ANNOUNCER: This is the Washington Week Webcast Extra. 2 00:00:07,670 --> 00:00:09,900 GWEN IFILL: Hello, I'm Gwen Ifill. 3 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:14,310 Welcome to our Webcast Extra, where we pick up online where we left off on the air. 4 00:00:14,310 --> 00:00:18,510 I'm joined by Jeff Zeleny of CNN, Laura Meckler of The Wall Street Journal, Pete 5 00:00:18,510 --> 00:00:21,940 Williams of NBC News, and Pierre Thomas of ABC News. 6 00:00:21,940 --> 00:00:25,820 It turns out our government is very worried about the potential for terrorism that lurks 7 00:00:25,820 --> 00:00:27,250 within. 8 00:00:27,250 --> 00:00:31,190 In Garland, Texas this week, the two men shot dead by police after trying to stage an 9 00:00:31,190 --> 00:00:36,330 attack at an anti-Muslim event appear to have attempted to establish ties to ISIS. 10 00:00:36,330 --> 00:00:41,200 And at the Justice Department this week, the FBI outlined the ways ISIS is using social 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,500 media to do its recruiting, using tactics straight out of Madison Avenue. 12 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:47,840 Pete and Pierre have been all over this story. 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,010 Pierre, why don't you start by telling us about some of the tactics which the Justice 14 00:00:51,010 --> 00:00:52,880 Department - the FBI has been telling us about? 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,690 PIERRE THOMAS: We've actually been doing a deep dive, looking at precisely how ISIS has 16 00:00:57,690 --> 00:01:00,460 been using social media. 17 00:01:00,460 --> 00:01:08,270 They have developed a system and a strategy where they're pushing out images, videos and 18 00:01:08,270 --> 00:01:10,400 communications on a daily basis. 19 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,940 We interviewed an official who said 90,000 times a day they're posting something. 20 00:01:13,940 --> 00:01:16,160 And - 21 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,680 GWEN IFILL: Ninety thousand times a day? 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,330 PIERRE THOMAS: A day. 23 00:01:19,330 --> 00:01:22,150 And it's a variety of things, and let me give you three examples. 24 00:01:22,150 --> 00:01:24,680 One, there's video. 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:30,080 Picture high-definition video, beautifully shot of beautiful children running toward a 26 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,590 bunch of fighters, and the fighters have ice cream and cotton candy. 27 00:01:34,590 --> 00:01:38,750 And they hand out the ice cream and cotton candy, and then the video ends with the ISIS 28 00:01:38,750 --> 00:01:41,460 fighter looking at the camera and smiling. 29 00:01:41,460 --> 00:01:44,340 And then a sign comes up, Mujatweets. 30 00:01:44,340 --> 00:01:46,600 Another video. 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:53,470 They have commandeered - a video similar to "Grand Theft Auto" in which they say, you 32 00:01:53,470 --> 00:01:57,350 play the game, but you can come live the game, basically, with them. 33 00:01:57,350 --> 00:01:59,850 Another video to soften their image. 34 00:01:59,850 --> 00:02:04,850 They have a very handsome ISIS fighter who goes to a hospital and he's visiting his 35 00:02:04,850 --> 00:02:07,490 wounded comrades. 36 00:02:07,490 --> 00:02:12,390 So they're operating on all different levels, enticing people to pay attention to them. 37 00:02:12,390 --> 00:02:19,400 And the concern is somebody who's getting those images will identify with ISIS and maybe 38 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,570 not go to join them in Iraq or Syria, but actually play out and do something here in the 39 00:02:24,570 --> 00:02:25,800 U.S. 40 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,510 GWEN IFILL: Well, which brings us to Garland, Texas. 41 00:02:27,510 --> 00:02:29,140 I don't know, does it bring us to Garland, Texas? 42 00:02:29,140 --> 00:02:31,010 PETE WILLIAMS: Yes, very much so. 43 00:02:31,010 --> 00:02:34,320 GWEN IFILL: Where we see two individuals who decided - and telegraphed - that they were 44 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:41,350 going to attack this anti-Muslim event, which was showing Prophet Muhammad cartoons, and 45 00:02:41,350 --> 00:02:44,560 seemed to have at least - at the very least been inspired by ISIS. 46 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,450 PETE WILLIAMS: Well, clearly one of them was, and that's Elton Simpson. 47 00:02:47,450 --> 00:02:53,930 He was obviously, now we know, in touch with several people who were either ISIS members 48 00:02:53,930 --> 00:02:59,710 or ISIS sympathizers who - one of whom had said, hey, what about this event in Texas, 49 00:02:59,710 --> 00:03:01,580 somebody ought to do something about that. 50 00:03:01,580 --> 00:03:05,710 And as Pierre said, they're not just saying, you know, hooray for our side; they're 51 00:03:05,710 --> 00:03:11,450 saying, you know - just today the ISIS in - somebody sent out a tweet saying, hey, 52 00:03:11,450 --> 00:03:15,830 there's this Jewish person in Australia and he's doing things that we don't like, 53 00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:17,690 somebody ought to go kill him. 54 00:03:17,690 --> 00:03:20,060 And so that is exactly what they're doing. 55 00:03:20,060 --> 00:03:24,100 They're not merely sending a propaganda message about how great they are. 56 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:27,740 They're appealing to people and saying, you know, look, if you can't get over here, kill 57 00:03:27,740 --> 00:03:29,270 somebody right where you live. 58 00:03:29,270 --> 00:03:30,290 That's the big danger. 59 00:03:30,290 --> 00:03:31,400 GWEN IFILL: And threats against U.S. 60 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:32,810 military bases we see today. 61 00:03:32,810 --> 00:03:34,550 PIERRE THOMAS: Right. 62 00:03:34,550 --> 00:03:37,380 Essentially, they're leveraging Western values and marketing to get someone to do 63 00:03:37,380 --> 00:03:38,880 something. 64 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,040 It's like, we'll throw it out there and maybe someone will do something. 65 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:47,760 The FBI director talked about a distinction between ISIS and al-Qaida. 66 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:53,730 He said ISIS would never think of sending one to do an attack without vetting them. 67 00:03:53,730 --> 00:03:55,060 PETE WILLIAMS: Yeah. 68 00:03:55,060 --> 00:03:56,330 PIERRE THOMAS: ISIS doesn't care. 69 00:03:56,330 --> 00:03:57,660 They just want you to do it. 70 00:03:57,660 --> 00:03:59,670 PETE WILLIAMS: And the other - excuse me - and the other difference, and what makes it 71 00:03:59,670 --> 00:04:02,140 so hard for the government, is, in the olden days of about a year and a half ago - 72 00:04:02,140 --> 00:04:06,210 (chuckles) - the way you got a propaganda message was to put up a website, and then the 73 00:04:06,210 --> 00:04:09,410 FBI could sort of lurk around the edges and see who was coming. 74 00:04:09,410 --> 00:04:14,240 Now it's being pushed out to - he said there were probably hundreds of people in the 75 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,610 U.S. 76 00:04:15,610 --> 00:04:17,490 who are consuming these messages, perhaps thousands. 77 00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:19,180 LAURA MECKLER: Wow. 78 00:04:19,180 --> 00:04:20,990 GWEN IFILL: OK, let's move to something more lighthearted, like politics. 79 00:04:20,990 --> 00:04:22,420 (Laughter.) 80 00:04:22,420 --> 00:04:23,880 LAURA MECKLER: Seriously. 81 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,090 GWEN IFILL: We got through a lot of people who are in this crowded race now, Jeff, 82 00:04:26,090 --> 00:04:29,700 during the main broadcast, but there are a lot of people who are keeping a much closer 83 00:04:29,700 --> 00:04:32,460 eye on. 84 00:04:32,460 --> 00:04:34,600 They're not the longshots. 85 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,970 They're the Marco Rubios and the Jeb Bushes and the Chris Christies. 86 00:04:36,970 --> 00:04:38,870 JEFF ZELENY: Right. 87 00:04:38,870 --> 00:04:40,350 And Chris Christie suddenly reappeared this week back on the campaign trail. 88 00:04:40,350 --> 00:04:41,610 We haven't seen a lot of him. 89 00:04:41,610 --> 00:04:43,310 He was in New Hampshire for a couple days. 90 00:04:43,310 --> 00:04:44,950 He is not out of this yet. 91 00:04:44,950 --> 00:04:46,080 He has a few problems, a few challenges - 92 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,190 GWEN IFILL: A few problems. 93 00:04:47,190 --> 00:04:48,320 JEFF ZELENY: - at home back in New Jersey. 94 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,820 I mean, fiscal problems for one, but also the Bridgegate - 95 00:04:50,820 --> 00:04:52,150 PIERRE THOMAS: A few bridges to cross? 96 00:04:52,150 --> 00:04:53,280 (Laughter.) 97 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:54,230 JEFF ZELENY: Exactly. 98 00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:56,010 A situation that's still going on. 99 00:04:56,010 --> 00:05:02,060 But he is still eyeing probably a June time frame of jumping in. 100 00:05:02,060 --> 00:05:05,230 His advisers are insisting he's still running. 101 00:05:05,230 --> 00:05:06,430 We'll see. 102 00:05:06,430 --> 00:05:09,760 I mean, I think it's a little early to rule him out entirely, but his moment may have 103 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,280 passed a bit. 104 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:15,270 But Marco Rubio I would say, if you're judging all the rollouts so far, I think he's had 105 00:05:15,270 --> 00:05:19,750 the best one and has had the biggest rise. 106 00:05:19,750 --> 00:05:24,150 He is in poll after poll after poll - which we have to take with a grain of salt at this 107 00:05:24,150 --> 00:05:31,090 point - but one consistency: he is viewed more positively, more favorably as second 108 00:05:31,090 --> 00:05:37,560 choice or as, you know - Republicans don't dislike him, I guess, as much as some of the 109 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:38,860 others. 110 00:05:38,860 --> 00:05:39,930 LAURA MECKLER: An acceptable choice, sort of. 111 00:05:39,930 --> 00:05:40,770 JEFF ZELENY: Acceptable choice, right. 112 00:05:40,770 --> 00:05:41,830 Thank you. 113 00:05:41,830 --> 00:05:42,470 Thank you for translating that. 114 00:05:42,470 --> 00:05:43,410 LAURA MECKLER: He is like an acceptable choice to a larger number of people. 115 00:05:43,410 --> 00:05:44,470 GWEN IFILL: People don't know him very well yet, though. 116 00:05:44,470 --> 00:05:46,170 JEFF ZELENY: Because Jeb Bush, though - 117 00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:47,570 GWEN IFILL: This is what happens. 118 00:05:47,570 --> 00:05:49,230 JEFF ZELENY: It's a possibility, but Jeb Bush, though, he has high negatives and high 119 00:05:49,230 --> 00:05:50,540 numbers. 120 00:05:50,540 --> 00:05:52,150 But Jeb Bush, I think, is still out there. 121 00:05:52,150 --> 00:05:56,140 He is raising so much money, and doing something that we never seen before. 122 00:05:56,140 --> 00:06:00,250 He's filling up the coffers of his super PAC, and then he's going to jump in and run for 123 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:01,960 president later. 124 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,900 And this is the - you know, it's an unusual dynamic. 125 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:09,230 But the super PACs in 2016, in this cycle, are going to be much different and much more 126 00:06:09,230 --> 00:06:10,630 robust than ever before. 127 00:06:10,630 --> 00:06:12,000 So - 128 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,130 GWEN IFILL: I wouldn't pooh-pooh the polls completely, except that they do - they do 129 00:06:14,130 --> 00:06:16,230 measure at this stage how well do you know somebody. 130 00:06:16,230 --> 00:06:19,510 And that's why, if your name is Bush, they know you pretty well. 131 00:06:19,510 --> 00:06:21,480 They've formed an opinion, no matter who you are. 132 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,480 If your name is Rubio, it's like, what's the story? 133 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,610 So maybe that may be a little bit of what we're seeing. 134 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:27,960 JEFF ZELENY: And the story is what people are latching onto. 135 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,520 He goes around and he tells the story of his upbringing, and people like inspirational 136 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,280 stories. 137 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:39,860 People - you know, and so he is - he's getting attention because of his persona and who 138 00:06:39,860 --> 00:06:42,000 he is, so he's not running away from his family - 139 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,260 GWEN IFILL: Laura, I want to ask you about Hillary because we - speaking of well-known, 140 00:06:46,260 --> 00:06:51,900 speaking of very - resonating in polls one way or the other, she is also raising money 141 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:54,180 hand over fist now as well. 142 00:06:54,180 --> 00:06:55,250 LAURA MECKLER: Yeah. 143 00:06:55,250 --> 00:06:56,510 I mean, we don't know if - 144 00:06:56,510 --> 00:06:58,000 GWEN IFILL: Well, we don't know if it's hand over fist. 145 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,220 LAURA MECKLER: Probably has a way - has a way to go to catch up with Jeb. 146 00:07:00,220 --> 00:07:01,870 But yes, she is out there. 147 00:07:01,870 --> 00:07:05,020 I mean, in fact, we're only seeing a very little bit of her sort of in public. 148 00:07:05,020 --> 00:07:07,990 You know, once a week she'll do a day's worth of events. 149 00:07:07,990 --> 00:07:12,320 In Nevada this last week we saw her once, I mean, for less than an hour, I would say, in 150 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:13,630 public. 151 00:07:13,630 --> 00:07:15,960 But she did do a lot of fundraising on the West Coast. 152 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,530 So she is fundraising for her own campaign. 153 00:07:18,530 --> 00:07:22,040 And that is, by today's standards, you know, relatively small dollars. 154 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,980 We're talking $2,700 per person. 155 00:07:24,980 --> 00:07:29,540 That might not seem like small dollars to everybody who - out there, but that is small 156 00:07:29,540 --> 00:07:30,640 in a - 157 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,050 GWEN IFILL: In a billion-dollar campaign it is. 158 00:07:32,050 --> 00:07:33,680 LAURA MECKLER: - in a billion-dollar campaign, exactly. 159 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,080 It is - she also this week started having her first meetings to support her own super 160 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,520 PAC. 161 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,260 Now, she - there are some lines that she won't be able to cross. 162 00:07:41,260 --> 00:07:45,430 She can't, you know, coordinate with her super PAC, and she cannot directly ask for 163 00:07:45,430 --> 00:07:47,130 large sums of money. 164 00:07:47,130 --> 00:07:52,630 But she can have conversations with people about what they're up to and what she - hoping 165 00:07:52,630 --> 00:07:57,000 that - essentially getting to know her and therefore hoping that they will support the - 166 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,940 support Priorities USA. 167 00:07:58,940 --> 00:08:03,410 It is pretty amazing when you contrast that with what's happening with Jeb. 168 00:08:03,410 --> 00:08:07,940 He is not a candidate as far as the law is concerned today, so he can go and ask for 169 00:08:07,940 --> 00:08:10,950 anything he wants and coordinate all he wants. 170 00:08:10,950 --> 00:08:14,630 So I'm not really sure, as a practical matter, there's all that much difference of what 171 00:08:14,630 --> 00:08:19,260 he's doing and what Hillary's doing, but she cannot - at least she can't make the ask. 172 00:08:19,260 --> 00:08:21,520 But she is - she is out there having the meetings. 173 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,790 GWEN IFILL: I have to say the rules are so confusing to me still: who can meet, who 174 00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:26,630 can't meet, where they're supposed to - 175 00:08:26,630 --> 00:08:28,900 LAURA MECKLER: Well, I think the bottom line is people can pretty much do whatever they 176 00:08:28,900 --> 00:08:30,470 want these days. 177 00:08:30,470 --> 00:08:33,940 I mean, there are some technical lines, but they are - I mean, I even heard this week - 178 00:08:33,940 --> 00:08:37,950 you would know this better than I would - that there's some talk of Jeb having his super 179 00:08:37,950 --> 00:08:40,810 PAC run his TV ads, his main TV ads. 180 00:08:40,810 --> 00:08:42,550 JEFF ZELENY: Yeah, that's exactly what they're - what they're doing, they're 181 00:08:42,550 --> 00:08:43,920 outsourcing them. 182 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,280 And the whole problem it goes to - 183 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:46,820 LAURA MECKLER: Which is - how do they do that without anyone coordinating? 184 00:08:46,820 --> 00:08:48,660 JEFF ZELENY: If anyone at home is interested in commissions, the Federal Election 185 00:08:48,660 --> 00:08:51,590 Commission, which polices all this, has basically thrown its hands up and said we - 186 00:08:51,590 --> 00:08:53,430 PETE WILLIAMS: We give up? 187 00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:55,860 JEFF ZELENY: We give up, we are hopelessly deadlocked. 188 00:08:55,860 --> 00:08:58,460 So that - as John McCain always says, all this money is going to create a scandal 189 00:08:58,460 --> 00:09:00,330 problem. 190 00:09:00,330 --> 00:09:02,100 He might be right about this. 191 00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:04,170 GWEN IFILL: Yeah, well, they're hoping that the problem doesn't get caught up until 192 00:09:04,170 --> 00:09:05,310 after the election is over. 193 00:09:05,310 --> 00:09:06,570 JEFF ZELENY: Right, of course. 194 00:09:06,570 --> 00:09:09,080 GWEN IFILL: Thank you all very much, and thank you all for watching online. 195 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,290 While you're here, check out my take this week on what's right and wrong about being 196 00:09:13,290 --> 00:09:15,610 politically correct. 197 00:09:15,610 --> 00:09:29,340 And we'll see you next time on the Washington Week Webcast Extra.