WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.730 align:start NANCY CORDES: Welcome to the Washington Week Extra. I'm Nancy Cordes. 00:04.730 --> 00:10.160 align:start The deadly insurrection at the Capitol on January 6th scarred the nation, and the pieces 00:10.160 --> 00:16.060 align:start that led to that day are still being put together. Now, 100 days since the event, 00:16.060 --> 00:21.720 align:start what's left to be done and is the country prepared to prevent it from happening again? 00:21.720 --> 00:26.790 align:start Joining me to discuss are four reporters who cover Washington: Eugene Daniels, White 00:26.790 --> 00:31.420 align:start House correspondent for Politico and co-author of the Politico Playbook; Anne Gearan, 00:31.420 --> 00:36.520 align:start White House correspondent for The Washington Post; Kasie Hunt, Capitol Hill correspondent 00:36.520 --> 00:43.470 align:start for NBC News and host of MSNBC's Way Too Early; and Wesley Lowery, correspondent for 60 00:43.470 --> 00:48.960 align:start Minutes+. Welcome to all of you. Wesley, let's start with you. 00:48.960 --> 00:54.660 align:start What, to your mind, is the biggest lesson that the country has learned from January 6th? 00:54.660 --> 01:00.340 align:start WESLEY LOWERY: Oh, I'm not sure if we've learned the lesson or fully internalized the 01:00.340 --> 01:05.670 align:start lesson, but I think one of the most important lessons is to take much more seriously some 01:05.670 --> 01:12.510 align:start of the threats that are voiced in our politics by both rogue actors and not-so-rogue actors. 01:12.510 --> 01:18.720 align:start I think as we've seen and as we've talked to law enforcement officials, both in the 01:18.720 --> 01:22.600 align:start Capitol and elsewhere, there's been a lot of conversation about how what happened on 01:22.600 --> 01:26.630 align:start January 6th was planned in public. It wasn't that hard to know what was going to go on, 01:26.630 --> 01:32.290 align:start and yet for many reasons or any number of reasons that threat was not seemingly taken 01:32.290 --> 01:36.650 align:start as seriously as it should have been, and there are real consequences to that. 01:36.650 --> 01:41.510 align:start Not just the terror that happened on that day, but as our friend and colleague at NBC 01:41.510 --> 01:46.090 align:start Frank Thorp had a great project today looking back a hundred days, and the people who 01:46.090 --> 01:51.390 align:start were there, and how that trauma and difficulty carries on with them - that these are not 01:51.390 --> 01:54.740 align:start one-off incidents, but rather are incidents that really change people's lives. 01:54.740 --> 01:58.380 align:start And so hope is that moving forward some of these threats that come from the political 01:58.380 --> 02:01.970 align:start right, that come from White supremacist groups, that come from supporters of the former 02:01.970 --> 02:06.320 align:start president are hopefully taken more seriously by law enforcement. 02:06.320 --> 02:10.270 align:start CORDES: You know, I think you're really right, Wesley, that a lot of us who were on 02:10.270 --> 02:16.250 align:start Capitol Hill that day felt disbelief at first that it was actually happening, but in the 02:16.250 --> 02:20.760 align:start 100 days since that disbelief has kind of transformed into something else. 02:20.760 --> 02:26.070 align:start Kasie, you were also on the Hill that day. You wrote a really moving piece about what 02:26.070 --> 02:31.450 align:start it was like to be there, how this all unfolded, and how you feel about it now. 02:31.450 --> 02:36.130 align:start Tell us how you view that day now that you've gotten some distance from it. 02:36.130 --> 02:40.940 align:start KASIE HUNT: Yeah, thanks, Nancy, and I think it's important to underscore what Wesley 02:40.940 --> 02:46.350 align:start said. I mean, the Capitol complex, as you know so well, is made up of so many people 02:46.350 --> 02:48.460 align:start beyond just lawmakers and their aides. 02:48.460 --> 02:52.300 align:start They are people who are just trying to put food on their own tables, they are working in 02:52.300 --> 02:56.170 align:start the cafeterias, they are the Capitol Police manning all of the doors, and they were all 02:56.170 --> 03:03.270 align:start attacked on that day. And I think for me, like you, I shared a disbelief as it was happening. 03:03.270 --> 03:08.050 align:start I thought, frankly, as I was trying to report live on what was happening during the day, 03:08.050 --> 03:12.580 align:start that if I had said people were breaching the Capitol, it would turn out inevitably to be 03:12.580 --> 03:16.450 align:start wrong and I should be careful to make sure that I didn't seem to suggest that as they were 03:16.450 --> 03:23.690 align:start dealing with what was happening outside. And I think we all assumed that the safest place in D.C. 03:23.690 --> 03:27.540 align:start to be - in Washington to be was the floor of the House and the Senate - in the Capitol 03:27.540 --> 03:33.370 align:start itself, but definitely on those sacred floors - and that was completely shattered on January 6th. 03:33.370 --> 03:39.060 align:start And I think the thing that we're reckoning with now is people who have other motives - 03:39.060 --> 03:43.740 align:start political motives, interests, ambitions for their own careers or their own families or 03:43.740 --> 03:48.340 align:start for whatever reason - who are essentially trying to rewrite the history of what happened 03:48.340 --> 03:52.350 align:start that day, who are trying to say that people were not afraid, who are trying to say that 03:52.350 --> 03:56.150 align:start the crowd was not violent. You know, I was there, I saw what happened. I can tell the 03:56.150 --> 04:00.260 align:start difference between what people are saying that's true and what's not about what happened 04:00.260 --> 04:06.170 align:start that day. And the partisan - the speed with which we descended into partisan politicking 04:06.170 --> 04:10.280 align:start over how to move forward has been a little bit astonishing. 04:10.280 --> 04:14.160 align:start You know, I think you have covered the Hill for so long; they in the past have been 04:14.160 --> 04:18.720 align:start protective of their own powers, their own prerogatives, to the point where they were 04:18.720 --> 04:22.690 align:start actually willing to work with each other to take on the White House or to take on another 04:22.690 --> 04:27.230 align:start entity, and in this case their very walls were breached and they can't agree on how to 04:27.230 --> 04:30.550 align:start even form a commission to investigate what happened. 04:30.550 --> 04:35.470 align:start So I think the question is, is it possible to still believe in a system that aspires to 04:35.470 --> 04:40.260 align:start be, you know, one of the best in the world - something that is representative, you know, 04:40.260 --> 04:45.180 align:start our very democracy - with whether we're capable of living up to those values and 04:45.180 --> 04:47.700 align:start following through on them. 04:47.700 --> 04:50.690 align:start CORDES: Yeah, I mean, they're trying to rewrite history not about something that 04:50.690 --> 04:56.220 align:start happened years ago; it happened earlier this year. We were all there. We all remember it. 04:56.220 --> 05:02.430 align:start So, Eugene, let's talk a little bit about this revisionism, you know, not just about who 05:02.430 --> 05:07.790 align:start broke into the Capitol that day but what their motives were, how dangerous they were. 05:07.790 --> 05:12.780 align:start How do you think that that kind of misinformation affects the government's ability to 05:12.780 --> 05:16.870 align:start address these kinds of threats going forward? 05:16.870 --> 05:20.990 align:start EUGENE DANIELS: It completely hampers it because one thing we know about the federal 05:20.990 --> 05:25.950 align:start government - all of us, from covering it - is that public opinion and the way that the 05:25.950 --> 05:30.120 align:start public feels about things is usually what pushes them to do things. 05:30.120 --> 05:34.800 align:start And what we've seen is that Trump supporters, Republicans are largely seeing - you know, 05:34.800 --> 05:39.780 align:start saying things like this happened from people who were Antifa dressed as Trump supporters, 05:39.780 --> 05:42.290 align:start trying to trick them. 05:42.290 --> 05:46.740 align:start They believe the lie that President Trump told that led to all of this, and that was told 05:46.740 --> 05:50.750 align:start not just on January 6th, and that's something that is really important to the 05:50.750 --> 05:55.660 align:start conversation, is that it wasn't just the day of January 6th and that speech that the 05:55.660 --> 06:00.330 align:start then-president gave but the months and months of that lie that those people who came 06:00.330 --> 06:06.580 align:start there on January 6th believed. And the revisionism that we're seeing is dangerous 06:06.580 --> 06:13.080 align:start because, one, if you are not the target of the attacks, you probably weren't scared. 06:13.080 --> 06:18.490 align:start So someone like Senator Ron Johnson, who said he wasn't scared when it happened, well, he 06:18.490 --> 06:22.860 align:start was a - he was a Trump supporter. They were looking for Mike Pence, right? They were saying 06:22.860 --> 06:27.190 align:start they were going to hang Mike Pence. They were calling Nancy Pelosi's name as they walked around. 06:27.190 --> 06:32.550 align:start And then when it comes to someone like Tucker Carlson, who has talked about this kind of 06:32.550 --> 06:36.880 align:start painting these people as not as scary, and - those people who were there - there was 06:36.880 --> 06:41.080 align:start tactical outfits. There was - you know, they had all types of weapons. 06:41.080 --> 06:44.870 align:start You know, they talked about not having guns, but there were bats and all types of things. 06:44.870 --> 06:49.390 align:start And so the federal government is not going to be able to protect itself it they can't 06:49.390 --> 06:54.710 align:start have an actual healthy conversation, a substantive conversation, about what actually 06:54.710 --> 07:02.000 align:start happened because this revision of - excuse me - the revisionism is happening and it's 07:02.000 --> 07:06.870 align:start happening only on one side of the aisle, and that part is really dangerous. 07:06.870 --> 07:12.320 align:start CORDES: Anne, I'm wondering how you think that this single event has sort of shaped the 07:12.320 --> 07:15.390 align:start early months of the Biden presidency. 07:15.390 --> 07:20.340 align:start Obviously, you know, it certainly changed his inauguration, which had to contend with the 07:20.340 --> 07:24.840 align:start fact that a massive security breach had taken place right where he was taking the oath of 07:24.840 --> 07:32.290 align:start office just a couple of weeks earlier, but has it shifted his policy priorities as well? 07:32.290 --> 07:35.660 align:start ANNE GEARAN: Nancy, I would say really not a lot. 07:35.660 --> 07:42.740 align:start I mean, the Biden administration is pretty disciplined and on message that the two most 07:42.740 --> 07:48.590 align:start important things that they need to contend with are the pandemic, one, and the economic 07:48.590 --> 07:56.560 align:start effects of it, two. And you know, while certainly the president and many people who work 07:56.560 --> 08:02.400 align:start for him reference the events of January 6th fairly frequently, they have not - they've 08:02.400 --> 08:05.030 align:start really tried not to focus on it. 08:05.030 --> 08:10.810 align:start I think it is, however, something that shadows what they do in a - in a way we haven't 08:10.810 --> 08:17.200 align:start really talked about, which is that neither President Trump nor many of these people who 08:17.200 --> 08:22.060 align:start believed the so-called big lie all along have ever renounced it. 08:22.060 --> 08:27.230 align:start The people who came to the Capitol on January 6th did so because they believed that the 08:27.230 --> 08:31.180 align:start election had been stolen from them and that Joe Biden was an illegitimate - was going to 08:31.180 --> 08:36.750 align:start become an illegitimate president. A lot of people still believe that, and you see local 08:36.750 --> 08:45.070 align:start candidates and House candidates running for election next year who are espousing that 08:45.070 --> 08:50.800 align:start same idea, that - you know, running on a stop the steal platform, for example. 08:50.800 --> 08:56.560 align:start Some of those people are going to win, and that is going to be the landscape in Congress 08:56.560 --> 09:03.700 align:start that President Biden deals with for the second half of his first term. So, you know, this 09:03.700 --> 09:08.480 align:start isn't over. You asked at the beginning what the lessons are. I think we're still learning them. 09:08.480 --> 09:12.420 align:start CORDES: You know, one of the things that we learned this week was that D.C. 09:12.420 --> 09:19.030 align:start Police and Capitol Police were told to intentionally hold back their response to this 09:19.030 --> 09:25.960 align:start insurrection, to go easy on these protesters, and Wesley, you can't help but draw 09:25.960 --> 09:31.950 align:start comparisons to the way that Black Lives Matter protesters were treated the year before. 09:31.950 --> 09:37.670 align:start And one thing that you said in a CBS This Morning piece this morning really haunted me, 09:37.670 --> 09:42.230 align:start really stuck with me as we look at this broader issue of race and policing. 09:42.230 --> 09:48.850 align:start You said that for the Black community, which is relatively small and close-knit, there is 09:48.850 --> 09:56.190 align:start a trauma and a fear that goes along with always wondering if the next person to be shot 09:56.190 --> 10:05.530 align:start or killed is someone you know, is a neighbor, is a friend, is a co-worker, a family member. 10:05.530 --> 10:10.380 align:start LOWERY: Certainly, I mean, I think it - and I think it's been very interesting. 10:10.380 --> 10:14.660 align:start I think - you know, I was actually sat in on some focus groups of Black voters in 10:14.660 --> 10:18.300 align:start February, and the main takeaway - you know, they, in fact, were not particularly 10:18.300 --> 10:20.990 align:start vindictive towards the insurrectionists. 10:20.990 --> 10:24.260 align:start They weren't lock them up and throw away the key, but they did all say, I mean, they 10:24.260 --> 10:29.410 align:start wouldn't let us get near the Capitol like that, that's insane; that if Louis Farrakhan 10:29.410 --> 10:32.480 align:start gave a speech down the street saying let's storm the Capitol, he wouldn't have made it to 10:32.480 --> 10:37.020 align:start the stairs. And so it was - and he certainly wouldn't have gone without getting handcuffs 10:37.020 --> 10:42.590 align:start put on him once the Capitol was ransacked. And so it is - it is remarkable to look at. 10:42.590 --> 10:46.550 align:start I mean, the police were put in a remarkably difficult tactical scenario, I mean, and from 10:46.550 --> 10:50.570 align:start some of the autopsies we've read of it, it seems like a lot of the issue was in preparation. 10:50.570 --> 10:54.530 align:start Once you have that many people there and you haven't cordoned it off, you've got some big 10:54.530 --> 10:59.440 align:start problems and you don't have very many options, but the thought is that other groups might 10:59.440 --> 11:02.780 align:start not have been able to get that close in the first place. 11:02.780 --> 11:07.570 align:start But I - but I do think that is so much of when we have these moments - we're coming into 11:07.570 --> 11:11.930 align:start this week where we're going to get a verdict in the Chauvin trial one way or the other, 11:11.930 --> 11:18.480 align:start and these moments where the entire nation hurts, but I think that sometimes we forget how 11:18.480 --> 11:23.400 align:start some communities within our country have different experiences. They are smaller. 11:23.400 --> 11:25.580 align:start They feel things in different ways. 11:25.580 --> 11:29.420 align:start We were reminded of this during this spate of Asian American - anti-Asian American hate 11:29.420 --> 11:35.160 align:start crimes, another relatively small community within our country who were feeling this in 11:35.160 --> 11:39.150 align:start different ways. My Asian American friends didn't want to walk outside themselves 11:39.150 --> 11:41.560 align:start because they knew they could be targeted. 11:41.560 --> 11:45.060 align:start I think Black Americans, each time they see one of these videos this isn't a theoretical 11:45.060 --> 11:48.060 align:start bad thing that has happened to someone; that's someone who looks like the people you go 11:48.060 --> 11:53.650 align:start to church with, who you work with, your cousin, your uncle, and it very well statistically could be. 11:53.650 --> 11:58.990 align:start And I think that's something that sometimes I think the broader population doesn't fully appreciate. 11:58.990 --> 12:03.660 align:start CORDES: And Eugene, in the aftermath of the January 6th insurrection there were all 12:03.660 --> 12:08.670 align:start these companies that came forward and said they were not going to donate to politicians 12:08.670 --> 12:14.230 align:start who stood by the big lie or voted to overturn the election results, and now we're already 12:14.230 --> 12:19.830 align:start just a few months later starting to see some of those companies renege on those promises. 12:19.830 --> 12:25.400 align:start So why do you think they're doing that and what does it tell us about how committed the 12:25.400 --> 12:31.020 align:start public is and how committed companies are to holding politicians accountable? 12:31.020 --> 12:35.940 align:start DANIELS: Yeah, I mean, the public does - you know, we have these big moments. 12:35.940 --> 12:40.720 align:start After January 6th, it felt like there was a few - you know, a few days after that we're 12:40.720 --> 12:45.890 align:start all in this kind of collective shock, right? You know, Kasie was there, I had a lot of 12:45.890 --> 12:49.680 align:start my colleagues that were there, and no one could believe that that had happened. 12:49.680 --> 12:53.820 align:start It was shocking, but not surprising because, as Wesley pointed out, this had - the 12:53.820 --> 12:56.320 align:start planning had happened so publicly. 12:56.320 --> 13:00.740 align:start And so we were in these - this moment of, like, togetherness; it felt like even the 13:00.740 --> 13:06.120 align:start Republican Party was going to start moving away from some of the big lie, moving away 13:06.120 --> 13:10.920 align:start from then-President Trump, but then we went back right into our corners and the public 13:10.920 --> 13:16.130 align:start started doing the same thing, right? We started to - like, we talked about getting - thinking 13:16.130 --> 13:20.330 align:start about this differently, and that's exactly what happens with corporations, right? 13:20.330 --> 13:24.230 align:start They make these - they make certain promises of things they're going to do based on 13:24.230 --> 13:29.320 align:start what's happening right then and there, and then as the public stops paying attention or 13:29.320 --> 13:33.400 align:start as the public stops caring as much they kind of go back to what they're used to, which is 13:33.400 --> 13:39.060 align:start giving money to different types of people to get - you know, to lobby them and all of 13:39.060 --> 13:41.380 align:start those kinds of things. 13:41.380 --> 13:46.220 align:start And I think that's something that has been the saddest about this whole thing, is how 13:46.220 --> 13:51.460 align:start those - that moment where it felt like we as a country were - might be able to get back 13:51.460 --> 13:56.090 align:start together and have a little bit of unity, that that came and went, and came and went so 13:56.090 --> 14:01.530 align:start quickly, and at a time when desperately the only thing that could have helped - the only 14:01.530 --> 14:08.060 align:start thing that can actually get something done in reaction to January 6th - giving some more 14:08.060 --> 14:12.890 align:start protections, finding out what happened - would have been unity with the country, with 14:12.890 --> 14:17.310 align:start corporations paying - you know, standing by what they said, and more importantly with 14:17.310 --> 14:21.960 align:start members of Congress actually coming together and getting something done here. 14:21.960 --> 14:26.220 align:start CORDES: Well, unfortunately - because I have so many more questions for all of you - I'm 14:26.220 --> 14:32.100 align:start being told we have to leave it there for tonight, but many thanks to Eugene, Anne, Kasie, 14:32.100 --> 14:36.390 align:start and Wesley for all of your great insights, and thank you for joining us. 14:36.390 --> 14:41.350 align:start Make sure to sign up for our Washington Week newsletter on our website, where you'll get 14:41.350 --> 14:45.140 align:start an early preview of each edition of Washington Week. 14:45.140 --> 14:59.280 align:start For now, I'm Nancy Cordes. Good night from Washington.