WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.470 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Welcome to the Washington Week Extra. I'm Robert Costa. On Thursday our 00:04.470 --> 00:09.780 align:start colleagues at PBS NewsHour and POLITICO hosted a debate for Democratic presidential candidates. 00:09.780 --> 00:14.290 align:start It was the day after President Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, and 00:14.290 --> 00:19.250 align:start several of the contenders will potentially have a vote in that pending Senate trial days 00:19.250 --> 00:24.990 align:start before voting begins. Here's what Senator Amy Klobuchar had to say about everything. 00:24.990 --> 00:29.220 align:start SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): (From video.) As we face this trial in the Senate, if the 00:29.220 --> 00:34.260 align:start president claims that he is so innocent, then why doesn't he have all of the president's 00:34.260 --> 00:39.260 align:start men testify? If President Trump thinks that he should not be impeached, 00:39.260 --> 00:43.940 align:start he should be not scared to put forward his own witnesses. 00:43.940 --> 00:47.210 align:start ROBERT COSTA: The impeachment proceedings have revealed the stark partisan divisions on 00:47.210 --> 00:52.410 align:start Capitol Hill. Former Vice President Joe Biden said this when asked about working with Republicans. 00:52.410 --> 00:56.330 align:start FORMER VICE PRESIDENT JOSEPH BIDEN: (From video.) I refuse to accept the notion, as some 00:56.330 --> 01:00.120 align:start on this stage do, that we can never, never get to a place where we have cooperation 01:00.120 --> 01:05.630 align:start again. If that's the case, we're dead as a country. We need to be able to reach a consensus. 01:05.630 --> 01:10.350 align:start And if anyone has reason to be angry with the Republicans and not want to cooperate, it's 01:10.350 --> 01:13.800 align:start me the way they've attacked me, my son, and my family. 01:13.800 --> 01:17.710 align:start ROBERT COSTA: The field has narrowed in recent weeks, but questions about diversity 01:17.710 --> 01:20.350 align:start hover. Here's Andrew Yang. 01:20.350 --> 01:23.850 align:start ANDREW YANG: (From video.) It's both an honor and disappointment to be the lone 01:23.850 --> 01:26.120 align:start candidate of color on the stage tonight. 01:26.120 --> 01:29.660 align:start The question is, why am I the lone candidate of color on this stage? 01:29.660 --> 01:33.410 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Joining me tonight, Molly Ball, national political correspondent for TIME 01:33.410 --> 01:38.180 align:start Magazine; Ayesha Rascoe, White House reporter for NPR; Jerry Seib, executive Washington 01:38.180 --> 01:42.170 align:start editor for The Wall Street Journal; and Phil Rucker, White House bureau chief for The 01:42.170 --> 01:46.790 align:start Washington Post. Molly, we were talking about the debate during the broadcast, now here 01:46.790 --> 01:51.820 align:start on the Extra. What are we missing here? You look at this list of candidates, Andrew Yang 01:51.820 --> 01:55.110 align:start is at 3 or 4 percent. We didn't talk about him on the show. 01:55.110 --> 01:59.600 align:start Automation catching on as an issue, could it or not? 01:59.600 --> 02:01.640 align:start MOLLY BALL: Sort of. 02:01.640 --> 02:05.610 align:start I mean, I think Yang has had success getting people to pay attention to that, and it's 02:05.610 --> 02:09.850 align:start been part of the reason that he's risen is because he is tapping into something that 02:09.850 --> 02:14.190 align:start people - you know, economists disagree about whether this is actually a thing, but it's 02:14.190 --> 02:17.810 align:start something that people see out there and feel in their lives and are concerned about. 02:17.810 --> 02:20.950 align:start And you know, the field is still very fluid. 02:20.950 --> 02:23.410 align:start It is, thankfully, starting to narrow a little bit. 02:23.410 --> 02:26.790 align:start I thought it was really nice in the debate to be - to have few enough candidates that 02:26.790 --> 02:32.170 align:start they could really engage with each other and have some meaningful exchanges, but it's 02:32.170 --> 02:35.530 align:start still a little bit all over the map. 02:35.530 --> 02:39.670 align:start You know, it's kind of a funny lineup to have, you know, Tom Steyer and Andrew Yang up 02:39.670 --> 02:43.990 align:start there, but no Cory Booker or Julian Castro even though they're both still in the race. 02:43.990 --> 02:48.860 align:start And in polls something like three-quarters of Iowa caucusgoers saying they could still 02:48.860 --> 02:53.020 align:start change their minds; Iowans are terrible late deciders, they drive us political reporters 02:53.020 --> 02:58.950 align:start crazy every four years. But it is - it really kind of is anybody's race at this point. 02:58.950 --> 03:03.720 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Are we thinking about this race too much in terms of Iowa, Jerry? 03:03.720 --> 03:09.190 align:start Because if so crowded - the field's so crowded, maybe three or four or five tickets come 03:09.190 --> 03:13.190 align:start out of Iowa. There's this myth - maybe it's not a myth, but it's - in politics, only two 03:13.190 --> 03:15.790 align:start or three tickets out of Iowa. 03:15.790 --> 03:20.360 align:start This field has remained crowded for months; maybe it stays crowded for months on end. 03:20.360 --> 03:24.210 align:start GERALD SEIB: I think it does, but I don't think we're overthinking Iowa because the - 03:24.210 --> 03:26.500 align:start Iowa will winnow out the field. 03:26.500 --> 03:30.060 align:start And you know, you can't have five, six, seven people walk out of Iowa into New Hampshire 03:30.060 --> 03:33.850 align:start and on to South Carolina all seeming viable; that's not the way this is going to work. 03:33.850 --> 03:37.460 align:start And in a way the early states may become more important because all they're doing is 03:37.460 --> 03:41.940 align:start setting up the next stage when whoever survives those first four states has to face 03:41.940 --> 03:45.600 align:start Michael Bloomberg and his literally limitless checkbook. 03:45.600 --> 03:50.130 align:start So I think the question of who can stand through those early states and then move to the 03:50.130 --> 03:54.070 align:start second stage of the campaign is probably more important this time around than it normally 03:54.070 --> 03:56.780 align:start is, and so I don't think we're overrating them. 03:56.780 --> 04:00.590 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Bloomberg, you think about this strategy, he's waiting until Super 04:00.590 --> 04:04.090 align:start Tuesday. He just continues to build his name ID. 04:04.090 --> 04:09.590 align:start If the field is crowded and there are - it's still not determined who is the frontrunner 04:09.590 --> 04:14.540 align:start coming out of Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina, do his people and top Democrats 04:14.540 --> 04:17.730 align:start believe he can be a serious contender for this nomination? 04:17.730 --> 04:20.770 align:start PHILIP RUCKER: He could be a serious contender, and right now he has an advantage that 04:20.770 --> 04:23.910 align:start these other candidates - almost all of them - don't have, which is money. 04:23.910 --> 04:28.550 align:start I mean, he has slick advertising introducing himself, his record as mayor of New York, 04:28.550 --> 04:33.290 align:start the fights that he's fought like on gun control, climate change, saying he'll be the one 04:33.290 --> 04:37.300 align:start to beat Trump. Those ads are all over the country, and voters are seeing them and not 04:37.300 --> 04:41.570 align:start seeing ads for these other candidates. But one point that Bloomberg should keep in 04:41.570 --> 04:45.100 align:start mind is that Tom Steyer has a lot of money, the billionaire from California. 04:45.100 --> 04:49.190 align:start He's been on TV for months and it has not seemed to help him build much of a base of 04:49.190 --> 04:51.530 align:start support within the party. 04:51.530 --> 04:54.250 align:start ROBERT COSTA: I almost wore a Tom Steyer Christmas plaid tie. (Laughter.) 04:54.250 --> 04:56.220 align:start PHILIP RUCKER: We're glad you didn't. 04:56.220 --> 04:58.360 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Thank you, Phil. (Laughter.) You don't think I could pull it off? 04:58.360 --> 05:00.420 align:start PHILIP RUCKER: That's a very sharp yellow tie, Bob. 05:00.420 --> 05:03.280 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Thank you. Notre Dame colors, as you may - you may know. 05:03.280 --> 05:07.250 align:start But you think about this Democratic race, Bloomberg, so many candidates get thrown into 05:07.250 --> 05:12.820 align:start this moderate pile, but I would argue as a reporter these candidates aren't necessarily 05:12.820 --> 05:17.670 align:start moderate, they're New Democrats. They're to the left on climate change, on expanding 05:17.670 --> 05:20.870 align:start the government in terms of offering a public option on healthcare. 05:20.870 --> 05:25.650 align:start Is it fair to call these candidates moderate as they compete for the nomination? 05:25.650 --> 05:29.670 align:start AYESHA RASCOE: Well, I mean, it's in terms of levels, right? 05:29.670 --> 05:36.170 align:start So I think they are moderate compared to Bernie Sanders or to maybe an Elizabeth Warren, 05:36.170 --> 05:39.650 align:start so they're moderate in that sense. 05:39.650 --> 05:45.420 align:start But yeah, the party has just - it's a sign of where the party has come that now the 05:45.420 --> 05:50.790 align:start public option is the more moderate - (laughs) - proposal, and this idea - like, even 05:50.790 --> 05:55.650 align:start listening to them talking about climate change yesterday, you had Joe Biden saying very 05:55.650 --> 06:00.970 align:start readily that, yes, I'm willing to, you know, sacrifice a whole bunch of jobs because I'm 06:00.970 --> 06:05.080 align:start going to have - you know, in coal or in fossil fuels - because we're going to move over 06:05.080 --> 06:08.110 align:start to clean energy, like just point blank. 06:08.110 --> 06:12.410 align:start And this is - this was a huge fight during the Obama administration, and in many ways 06:12.410 --> 06:17.420 align:start they were kind of beaten in that fight because they didn't get climate change legislation 06:17.420 --> 06:21.540 align:start through because Republicans were successful at saying you're going to take away all these 06:21.540 --> 06:24.020 align:start jobs and you're going to raise energy costs. 06:24.020 --> 06:27.910 align:start But you see Biden now leaning into that because that's where the Democratic Party is, and 06:27.910 --> 06:31.790 align:start I think that could be also an issue for someone like Bloomberg when it comes to issues 06:31.790 --> 06:35.820 align:start like stop-and-frisk and things like that, when the - when it comes to those kind of 06:35.820 --> 06:38.880 align:start policing issues. That's where he could have an issue. 06:38.880 --> 06:42.260 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Any thoughts on where this Democratic Party is collectively as you look at 06:42.260 --> 06:45.160 align:start this debate and every other debate we've watched this year? 06:45.160 --> 06:49.140 align:start MOLLY BALL: Well, I just think you cannot overlook the level of desperation in the 06:49.140 --> 06:54.870 align:start Democratic base right now, right? There's been a level of almost panic ever since 2016. 06:54.870 --> 07:01.490 align:start And it's what drove 2018, in large measure. Just the Democrats are so desperate for a savior. 07:01.490 --> 07:06.790 align:start And I hear so much anxiety from sort of rank and file Democratic voters, because they see 07:06.790 --> 07:09.280 align:start the feet of clay of each one of these candidates. 07:09.280 --> 07:14.350 align:start And they just want someone that they feel can withstand the sort of furnace blast of 07:14.350 --> 07:18.220 align:start negativity that they know Trump is going to throw at them. 07:18.220 --> 07:24.290 align:start So there is - and so, you know, we see - on the one hand, all these candidates are sort 07:24.290 --> 07:28.130 align:start of broadly liked within the party. On the other hand, nobody's perfect. 07:28.130 --> 07:32.880 align:start And so I think in the slick advertisements that, like, a Mike Bloomberg is airing, they 07:32.880 --> 07:35.530 align:start see someone who might be a savior. 07:35.530 --> 07:40.870 align:start And he is getting a little bit of traction, despite the fact that he sort of seems, on 07:40.870 --> 07:45.160 align:start his face, to be out of step with the moderate - the modern Democratic Party. 07:45.160 --> 07:49.130 align:start He is getting some traction I think because they're looking for someone who has the 07:49.130 --> 07:54.260 align:start credentials, has the profile, has the money, and is tough enough to be on that stage. 07:54.260 --> 07:58.020 align:start GERALD SEIB: But at the same time, we had a poll this week that just came in just before 07:58.020 --> 08:01.700 align:start the debate, and Mike Bloomberg was at 4 percent nationally among Democratic primary 08:01.700 --> 08:04.730 align:start voters. So it hasn't happened yet. It might. 08:04.730 --> 08:07.760 align:start The other thing that occurs to me is that Democrats have a problem here, which is they 08:07.760 --> 08:12.710 align:start are running against a president who has really nice economic numbers at his back. 08:12.710 --> 08:17.230 align:start Now, the bad news for Democrats is, that's a good platform for the opposition to run on. 08:17.230 --> 08:20.860 align:start The good news is, if you had economic numbers like the ones President Trump has right 08:20.860 --> 08:24.810 align:start now, you should be at, like, 60 percent job approval. He's at 44 percent. 08:24.810 --> 08:30.220 align:start So you know, the good news is, from the Democratic point of view, maybe the negatives 08:30.220 --> 08:34.010 align:start about Trump will outweigh a positive economy. But a positive economy at this 08:34.010 --> 08:37.940 align:start stage in the election cycle is a problem for the opposition party. 08:37.940 --> 08:40.800 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Is that your read inside the White House when you're talking to sources 08:40.800 --> 08:45.850 align:start there, that regardless of what President Trump does in terms of behavior at a rally, or a 08:45.850 --> 08:51.120 align:start tweet, as long as the Dow Jones Industrial Average is at 28,000 and the S&P's at 3,000 08:51.120 --> 08:54.930 align:start they feel like those suburban voters may not break away totally? 08:54.930 --> 08:58.310 align:start PHILIP RUCKER: Well, they know it's not quite that simple. But they do count on the 08:58.310 --> 09:01.920 align:start economy, and they know that it's essential that the economy stay strong. 09:01.920 --> 09:06.570 align:start There was a moment of sort of freak out panic among some Trump advisors in the late 09:06.570 --> 09:11.090 align:start summer of this year when the market started to fall, and there were indications that we 09:11.090 --> 09:13.690 align:start were headed towards potentially a recession. 09:13.690 --> 09:17.900 align:start And that caused a lot of concern in the administration, and a consideration of what can 09:17.900 --> 09:22.230 align:start we do as the executive branch of the government to ensure that this economy stays robust, 09:22.230 --> 09:26.380 align:start because Trump knows that's his calling card come next November. 09:26.380 --> 09:29.690 align:start AYESHA RASCOE: And that's really - and, you know, when I talk to people, I mean what 09:29.690 --> 09:34.030 align:start they're saying is, as long as that economy stays good, he's the incumbent. 09:34.030 --> 09:40.240 align:start He does - that President Trump has a great chance to just win it all because he has that 09:40.240 --> 09:45.340 align:start economy, and that is what drives so much. And so regardless of whether people - and 09:45.340 --> 09:50.300 align:start he says this. You might not like me, but you like the way the economy's going. 09:50.300 --> 09:53.300 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We'll leave it there. Oh, wait, you have one more thing to say, Molly? 09:53.300 --> 09:56.330 align:start MOLLY BALL: I just wanted to say, it is funny that in a discussion of the Democratic 09:56.330 --> 09:58.930 align:start debate we ended up, yet again, on Trump. (Laughter.) Because that has been - 09:58.930 --> 10:01.270 align:start it's my fault. I brought him up. 10:01.270 --> 10:03.990 align:start ROBERT COSTA: Wait. Wait. Let me - let me end on a different note, then. Know what 10:03.990 --> 10:07.290 align:start I kept thinking when I was watching the debate? Who is the leader of the Democratic Party 10:07.290 --> 10:12.460 align:start on this stage? And I said, the leader to me, as a reporter, is Speaker Pelosi. She is 10:12.460 --> 10:17.820 align:start the leader of the party right now. And when you think about it, it's December 2019. 10:17.820 --> 10:22.370 align:start And as powerful of a story as this Democratic race is, it's often not on the front page 10:22.370 --> 10:28.710 align:start of the American conversation. In part, President Trump does dominate everything. 10:28.710 --> 10:31.680 align:start But Speaker Pelosi dominates her party, perhaps. 10:31.680 --> 10:34.530 align:start MOLLY BALL: She is certainly - she's the highest-ranking Democrat right now. And she 10:34.530 --> 10:38.700 align:start has been in this situation before. Remember? Her first speakership she was the speaker 10:38.700 --> 10:41.660 align:start of the House, but George W. Bush was in the White House. 10:41.660 --> 10:45.530 align:start And so Democrats had managed to win the House because of public anger at the Republican 10:45.530 --> 10:50.660 align:start president, who she proceeded to go toe-to-toe with, while still trying to find things 10:50.660 --> 10:54.770 align:start they could cooperate on when they could. And with her as, arguably, the leader of the 10:54.770 --> 10:59.320 align:start party in 2008, Democrats did pretty well in that election. 10:59.320 --> 11:02.150 align:start ROBERT COSTA: We'll leave it there for the holidays. That's it for this edition of the 11:02.150 --> 11:05.700 align:start Washington Week Extra. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on our 11:05.700 --> 11:09.470 align:start website. While you're there, check out our Washington Week-ly News Quiz. 11:09.470 --> 11:24.690 align:start I'm Bob Costa. Thanks for joining us and see you next time.