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>> Robert Streiffer: I am

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a member of the planning

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committee for this series of

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talks, and it is my pleasure to

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introduce our speaker tonight,

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Dr. Charles Snowdon.

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A little bit of background and

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then I'll turn the floor over to

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him, and we should have plenty

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of time after his official

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presentation for Q&A.

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Professor Snowdon received his

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BA from Oberlin College and his

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PhD from the University of

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Pennsylvania.

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He taught here at UW Madison

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since 1969.

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He held an NIH Research

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Scientist Award for 23 years and

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has been awarded two named

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professorships here at UW,

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a WARF University Houses

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Professorship and the Hilldale

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Professorship.

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His research grant supported a

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colony of endangered monkeys for

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more than 30 years, and he is

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one of the few psychologists who

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has done extensive field work on

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the species that he also studies

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in captivity.

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He supervised a wide range of

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student projects out in the

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field that ranged from research

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on mountain gorillas in Rwanda,

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to chimpanzees in Tanzania to

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cotton-top tamarins in Colombia

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to pygmy marmosets in Ecuador,

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to common marmosets in Brazil

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and even southern right whales

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off of Argentina.

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Professor Snowdon served a

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three-year term as editor of

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Animal Behavior and subsequently

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served a six-year term as editor

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of the Journal of Comparative

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Psychology.

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He's been associate editor of

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several journals including

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Behavior, the International

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Journal of Primatology and also

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Advances in the Study of

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Behavior.

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He's also served on numerous

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editorial boards including the

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American Journal of Primatology,

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the International Journal of

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Primatology, Primates, and now I

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have to say this with a French

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flair, Primatologie.

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>> Primatologie, oui.

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>> He's edited over a dozen

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books including Primate

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Communication and Social

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Influences on Vocal Development.

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He served on the American

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Psychological Association's

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committee on animal research and

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ethics.

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And he was an invited member to

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the National Research Council

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Committee that developed the

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official national guidelines for

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psychological well-being of

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nonhuman primates.

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And he's also served as

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president of the Animal Behavior

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Society.

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More locally, he served as a

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member of the Letters and

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Science Animal Care and Use

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Committee here at UW for six

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years, and he chaired, in

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addition to that, he chaired the

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committee for another seven

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years.

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So a lot of local experience and

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national experience as well.

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And just before I turn the mic

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over to Professor Snowdon, I'd

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like to remind the audience that

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our next speaker in the series

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is going to be Professor Gary

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Varner who is a bioethicist from

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Texas A&M, and he's going to be

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discussing personhood, ethics,

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and the cognitive capacities of

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animals.

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And that talk will be here in

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this room at 7:00 PM next Monday

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on April 4th, and we hope you

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can make it.

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And now, without further ado,

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Professor Snowdon.

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[APPLAUSE]

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>> Charles Snowdon: Thank you

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very much, Rob.

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It's a great pleasure to be

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here, and I apologize that my

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voice is not the best.

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I had to lecture this afternoon.

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>> Sorry, could you mute the mic

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with the bottom button?

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>> Okay.

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Did that work?

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So what I'd like to do today is

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to tell you about some research

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that my colleagues and I have

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done with a really interesting

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species of cotton-top tamarin.

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And I want to talk about the

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cotton-top tamarin both from a

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conservation perspective and why

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research is important to help

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conserve endangered species and

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also to talk about some

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interesting aspects about

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cotton-tops that I think should

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be appealing to humans as well.

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So, first of all, I want you

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just to imagine what perceptions

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you have about primate research,

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and what I'd like to do is

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hopefully overcome some typical

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perceptions about primate

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research and present you with

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some other ways to think about

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primates and other ways we can

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be studying primates in the

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captivity.

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The species I'm going to talk

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about and focus on tonight and

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the cotton-top tamarin.

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It's cute in these pictures,

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which were taken by a colleague

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of mine, Carla Boe.

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All the captive pictures are

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from her.

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Their official name is Saguinus

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oedipus, and that's not just

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because they have kinky sex with

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their mothers, which they don't,

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but as you recall from reading

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the Oedipus myth, you probably

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remember that Oedipus had a club

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foot.

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And if you notice these guys,

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they have seemingly bigger than

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normal feet.

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They are native to Colombia, and

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I'll say more about their

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natural history in just a bit.

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I'll say about it now.

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They're natives South America, a

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small area of northern Colombia.

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They have small bodies.

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They weigh about 500 to 650

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grams.

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So a pound to a pound and a

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half.

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In the wild they live in trees

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eating fruits, insects, lizards,

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and gum.

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One of my graduate students, her

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husband was studying lizards at

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the same site as a related

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species and we had marital

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discord one day when her

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marmosets were stalking and

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trying to eat his lizards.

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But they do eat lizards and

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insects in the field.

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Mothers give birth to twins, and

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this is a singular part about

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their biology that's really

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important because the twins

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together at birth weigh about

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20% of the mother's weight.

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So imagine 130-pound woman

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giving birth to two 13-pound

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babies.

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That's the equivalent of the

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birth effort that mothers go

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through.

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Females can seed shortly after

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giving birth, four to six weeks

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after they give birth, and I

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think these guys are very smart

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and very intelligent and I'll

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talk about that later on in the

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talk, but I think what has

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surprised me about them is that

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they have not been smart enough

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to learn to build nests so that

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means the babies have to be

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carried constantly.

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And estimates of how far they

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travel in the wild or estimates

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about two kilometers a day, and

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that's two kilometers a day on

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the ground but, in fact, these

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animals are arboreal and they

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move up and down in the trees.

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So they cover quite a lot of

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ground and carrying two heavy

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infants and nursing them while

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you're simultaneously pregnant

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with your next set of kids

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creates some interesting

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biological problems for them.

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They're called cooperative

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breeders and cooperative

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breeding is a breeding system

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where fathers, older siblings,

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and unrelated individuals can

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work together to help take care

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of infants.

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Typically, cooperative breeders

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are characterized by limited

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reproduction.

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Only a single female, and

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oftentimes a single male,

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breeds.

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This is a relatively unusual

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breeding system for nonhuman

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primates, so it's relatively

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common in birds.

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But it is said by some

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biological anthropologists to be

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the breeding system that's

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typical for humans.

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That is, we humans cannot

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reproduce successfully without

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having help of some sort, and

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whether the family to raise the

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child, whether it's the extended

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family, or whether we pay for

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childcare, we have to have

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someone to provide some help

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along the way in order to rear

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infants successfully.

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So tamarins and marmosets, their

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close relatives, are possible

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primate models for the study of

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affiliation, pair bonds, and

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cooperative care, all of which

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are aspects of family life that

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I think these animals can tell

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us something about.

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So I want to pose some questions

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that I want to try to touch on

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today about why are cotton-top

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tamarins interesting.

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They're monogamous, at least

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serially monogamous the way most

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of us are throughout our lives.

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They may have multiple partners

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throughout their life, but at

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any one time, we find from

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studies in the field, they are

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only mated with a single

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partner.

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What hormones might be involved

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in maintaining monogamy or

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helping animals get together and

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form a close relationship?

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One of the interesting

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characteristics about

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cooperative breeding is that

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fathers and older brothers, in

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particular, become good infant

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care givers.

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So what's the role of learning

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to be a parent and how does that

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occur?

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What is the role of hormones and

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priming a male to become a good

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caretaker?

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How do parents keep other

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animals from breeding?

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How does a female maintain her

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own reproductive sovereignty and

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prevent other animals from

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breeding?

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And finally, a question that's

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occupied us in the last several

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years before a colony was

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closed, is how does cooperative

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breeding lead to better social

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learning and better corporation

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with others?

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I'll try to report some data

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later that I think shows some

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really interesting differences

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between our closest relatives,

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chimpanzees, and these

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cooperatively breeding tamarins

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which have a lot of other

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interesting characteristics that

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animals like chimpanzees do not

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have.

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But before I answer these

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questions, let's take a trip to

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northern Colombia and visit the

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animals in the wild and see what

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their habitat is like.

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I guess I want to first of all

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mention that I'm an accidental

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primatologist.

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I inherited the colony of

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monkeys that I began working

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with from a colleague who could

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no longer support them in

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Berkeley.

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So I didn't start out with the

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plan that I was going to study

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primate behavior, but I saw

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these animals and they caught my

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eye, they caught my attention,

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there were lots of interesting

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things about them that made them

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very exciting and very

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interesting to want to learn

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about further.

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So what I want to talk about

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next is how easy are they to

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study in the wild?

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What's their current

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conservation status?

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How many remain and how does

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captive breeding fit in as a way

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of conservation?

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So let me, first of all, let you

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take a few minute to find the

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cotton-top tamarin in this

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picture.

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If you were a field biologist

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this is actually a good time to

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look at these animals because

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it's the dry season and most of

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the leaves are off the trees,

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so, in fact, the monkeys are

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very visible in this time of the

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year.

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So how many of you have found

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the monkey?

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This is what it would be like if

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you were studying these animals

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in the wild.

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Where are the monkeys?

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Where are you going to find

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them?

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How are you going to identify

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them as individuals?

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Anyone find them yet?

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Anyone think they found it?

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Let's draw a circle around it so

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you can see it.

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Now if you look really closely,

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you can see the same sort of

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monkey that I showed you the

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close up picture of earlier.

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So had a field study going on at

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Colombia for several years, and

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let me show the area of Colombia

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where our animals are located.

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This is northern Colombia.

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Here's Colombia, Venezuela,

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Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, and we're

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seeing that just in a very small

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area of northern Colombia is

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where these animals are located.

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The two big cities on the

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Caribbean coast, Barranquilla

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and Cartagena, which have huge

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numbers of people living in

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them, over a million people

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each, we worked in a field site

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in Sincelejo for several years,

10:41.000 --> 10:42.000
about six years, and then were

10:42.000 --> 10:44.000
finally driven out by some

10:44.000 --> 10:46.000
guerillas.

10:46.000 --> 10:47.000
So one of the problems about

10:47.000 --> 10:49.000
working in Colombia is that it

10:49.000 --> 10:51.000
doesn't have the same sort of

10:51.000 --> 10:52.000
civil society that we're

10:52.000 --> 10:54.000
accustomed to in the United

10:54.000 --> 10:55.000
States.

10:55.000 --> 10:56.000
And so these orange areas, the

10:56.000 --> 10:58.000
orange outlined areas on this

10:58.000 --> 10:59.000
map, are areas that are not safe

10:59.000 --> 11:01.000
for people to visit unless

11:01.000 --> 11:03.000
you're part of the

11:03.000 --> 11:05.000
narcotraficantes or part of the

11:05.000 --> 11:06.000
guerillas who are working in

11:06.000 --> 11:07.000
Colombia.

11:07.000 --> 11:09.000
And our field site near

11:09.000 --> 11:10.000
Sincelejo is now part of this

11:10.000 --> 11:11.000
area that is no longer a place

11:11.000 --> 11:13.000
where we can go.

11:13.000 --> 11:16.000
The green areas show forest that

11:16.000 --> 11:18.000
was determined from satellite

11:18.000 --> 11:21.000
photographs in the year 2000.

11:21.000 --> 11:23.000
So just 11 years ago, the green

11:23.000 --> 11:24.000
areas represent the forest that

11:24.000 --> 11:26.000
visible then from satellites.

11:26.000 --> 11:29.000
The dark green dots, you can see

11:29.000 --> 11:31.000
scattered around here, are the

11:31.000 --> 11:33.000
forest areas that are suitable

11:33.000 --> 11:35.000
for supporting cotton-top

11:35.000 --> 11:38.000
tamarins found in 2006 and 2007.

11:38.000 --> 11:40.000
So how many of the dark green

11:40.000 --> 11:42.000
areas can you identify and where

11:42.000 --> 11:44.000
are they located?

11:44.000 --> 11:45.000
So one of the problems we face

11:45.000 --> 11:49.000
is we can't, it's hard to create

11:49.000 --> 11:50.000
a conservation area in Colombia

11:50.000 --> 11:52.000
when you have areas of civil

11:52.000 --> 11:54.000
unrest, and an area where we

11:54.000 --> 11:56.000
tried some conservation work

11:56.000 --> 11:57.000
near Sincelejo is now out of

11:57.000 --> 11:59.000
bounds to outsiders.

11:59.000 --> 12:01.000
You can see very small areas of

12:01.000 --> 12:03.000
dark green, and what this leads

12:03.000 --> 12:05.000
to is then a question we could

12:05.000 --> 12:07.000
ask is, how many monkeys are

12:07.000 --> 12:08.000
left and what is their status in

12:08.000 --> 12:10.000
the wild?

12:10.000 --> 12:11.000
Anne Savage, a former

12:11.000 --> 12:13.000
undergraduate and graduate

12:13.000 --> 12:14.000
student of mine, published a

12:14.000 --> 12:16.000
paper in Nature last year that

12:16.000 --> 12:17.000
provides some information about

12:17.000 --> 12:19.000
these animals.

12:19.000 --> 12:20.000
So let me, first of all,

12:20.000 --> 12:22.000
indicate that some of their

12:22.000 --> 12:23.000
habitat loss has occurred from

12:23.000 --> 12:24.000
farming.

12:24.000 --> 12:26.000
These are very recent pictures

12:26.000 --> 12:27.000
taken in Colombia in the areas

12:27.000 --> 12:28.000
where cotton-tops live.

12:28.000 --> 12:30.000
We have logging that goes on and

12:30.000 --> 12:33.000
we have wood being collected for

12:33.000 --> 12:34.000
charcoal production as an energy

12:34.000 --> 12:37.000
source for people to cook.

12:37.000 --> 12:40.000
Anne Savage making use of a

12:40.000 --> 12:41.000
technique that Patricia

12:41.000 --> 12:44.000
McConnell and I devised 25 or so

12:44.000 --> 12:46.000
years ago.

12:46.000 --> 12:48.000
We found that in captivity if

12:48.000 --> 12:50.000
animals heard the vocalizations

12:50.000 --> 12:51.000
of a stranger, they would

12:51.000 --> 12:53.000
vocalize in response to the

12:53.000 --> 12:55.000
strange calls.

12:55.000 --> 12:56.000
And what Anne Savage did was to

12:56.000 --> 12:58.000
take this technique and have

12:58.000 --> 12:59.000
teams go into the field making

12:59.000 --> 13:01.000
these transects across the areas

13:01.000 --> 13:03.000
where cotton-tops live and every

13:03.000 --> 13:04.000
10 meters they would stop and

13:04.000 --> 13:06.000
play back the call of a strange

13:06.000 --> 13:09.000
monkey and they could keep track

13:09.000 --> 13:10.000
then to how many times did they

13:10.000 --> 13:12.000
hear answers to those calls and

13:12.000 --> 13:13.000
how many different answers did

13:13.000 --> 13:14.000
they hear?

13:14.000 --> 13:16.000
And using this they surveyed 45

13:16.000 --> 13:19.000
patches, which they published

13:19.000 --> 13:21.000
last year, representing 27% of

13:21.000 --> 13:22.000
the area that they can get

13:22.000 --> 13:24.000
access to.

13:24.000 --> 13:25.000
And they found that there are

13:25.000 --> 13:28.000
approximately 2,045 tamarins

13:28.000 --> 13:31.000
left in this area.

13:31.000 --> 13:33.000
There's a range of error in

13:33.000 --> 13:34.000
their estimates.

13:34.000 --> 13:36.000
So this is the range that they

13:36.000 --> 13:37.000
show.

13:37.000 --> 13:38.000
And if we assume the same

13:38.000 --> 13:40.000
densities of animals living in

13:40.000 --> 13:41.000
the unsafe areas, what this

13:41.000 --> 13:43.000
leaves us with is about 7400

13:43.000 --> 13:45.000
animals likely to be remaining

13:45.000 --> 13:46.000
in the wild.

13:46.000 --> 13:48.000
This contrasts with 20,000 to

13:48.000 --> 13:49.000
30,000 that were imported into

13:49.000 --> 13:51.000
the United States in the 1950s

13:51.000 --> 13:54.000
and 1960s.

13:54.000 --> 13:55.000
But since 1970, it's been

13:55.000 --> 13:57.000
habitat destruction that has

13:57.000 --> 13:59.000
been the major cause of the

13:59.000 --> 14:01.000
decline of populations.

14:01.000 --> 14:02.000
So research related to

14:02.000 --> 14:03.000
conservation I think is

14:03.000 --> 14:04.000
critical.

14:04.000 --> 14:06.000
Reserves are not easy to create

14:06.000 --> 14:07.000
and maintain in Colombia.

14:07.000 --> 14:09.000
We can't predict when a group of

14:09.000 --> 14:11.000
guerillas or narcotraficantes is

14:11.000 --> 14:12.000
going to want to take over an

14:12.000 --> 14:14.000
area that we're trying to

14:14.000 --> 14:15.000
preserve.

14:15.000 --> 14:16.000
Captive breeding and research I

14:16.000 --> 14:18.000
think are an important

14:18.000 --> 14:19.000
supplement to conservation in

14:19.000 --> 14:21.000
field.

14:21.000 --> 14:22.000
But in order to captive

14:22.000 --> 14:23.000
breeding, we have to learn how

14:23.000 --> 14:24.000
to do it properly.

14:24.000 --> 14:25.000
We have to learn what are the

14:25.000 --> 14:26.000
parameters that are really

14:26.000 --> 14:27.000
critical for successful captive

14:27.000 --> 14:28.000
breeding.

14:28.000 --> 14:29.000
And I think it's really

14:29.000 --> 14:29.000
important that we develop

14:29.000 --> 14:31.000
noninvasive methods because what

14:31.000 --> 14:31.000
we want to do is to use

14:31.000 --> 14:33.000
methodologies that will help us

14:33.000 --> 14:35.000
understand the animals and how

14:35.000 --> 14:36.000
they can breed successfully but

14:36.000 --> 14:38.000
we don't want to do anything

14:38.000 --> 14:40.000
that's going to disrupt their

14:40.000 --> 14:41.000
natural behavior or disrupt

14:41.000 --> 14:43.000
their ability to reproduce.

14:43.000 --> 14:45.000
The same time I think anytime we

14:45.000 --> 14:47.000
work with an endangered species

14:47.000 --> 14:49.000
there's a moral imperative to

14:49.000 --> 14:51.000
learn as much about that species

14:51.000 --> 14:53.000
as we possibly can before it

14:53.000 --> 14:55.000
goes extinct.

14:55.000 --> 14:57.000
So rather than letting an animal

14:57.000 --> 14:58.000
die out and just say tough luck,

14:58.000 --> 15:00.000
you just picked the wrong place

15:00.000 --> 15:02.000
to live, I think it's really

15:02.000 --> 15:04.000
important that we, as biologists

15:04.000 --> 15:06.000
and psychologists and

15:06.000 --> 15:07.000
anthropologists, spend our

15:07.000 --> 15:09.000
energies trying to understand

15:09.000 --> 15:11.000
what is it that we can learn

15:11.000 --> 15:12.000
from that species that might

15:12.000 --> 15:14.000
help us, might help us

15:14.000 --> 15:15.000
understand other nonhuman

15:15.000 --> 15:17.000
primates, might help us

15:17.000 --> 15:18.000
understand how to conserve

15:18.000 --> 15:20.000
primates.

15:20.000 --> 15:21.000
So I think research plays in a

15:21.000 --> 15:21.000
very important role.

15:21.000 --> 15:22.000
Research has to be done right

15:22.000 --> 15:24.000
and has to be done carefully.

15:24.000 --> 15:26.000
So in order to start our captive

15:26.000 --> 15:28.000
breeding program, we found we

15:28.000 --> 15:29.000
had six major myths we had to

15:29.000 --> 15:31.000
overcome.

15:31.000 --> 15:32.000
And let me deal with each of

15:32.000 --> 15:34.000
these myths in return.

15:34.000 --> 15:36.000
When we first began in 1978, the

15:36.000 --> 15:39.000
idea was that good research had

15:39.000 --> 15:41.000
to be invasive, and I'll talk

15:41.000 --> 15:42.000
about some of the ways that

15:42.000 --> 15:44.000
we've dealt with coming with

15:44.000 --> 15:46.000
noninvasive ways.

15:46.000 --> 15:47.000
It was thought that a mother or

15:47.000 --> 15:49.000
a mother and father were

15:49.000 --> 15:50.000
sufficient to raise offspring.

15:50.000 --> 15:52.000
They didn't know about

15:52.000 --> 15:53.000
cooperative breeding, they

15:53.000 --> 15:54.000
didn't know about the importance

15:54.000 --> 15:56.000
of having, possible importance

15:56.000 --> 15:58.000
of having helpers to rear

15:58.000 --> 15:59.000
infants.

15:59.000 --> 16:01.000
Most of the biologists who were

16:01.000 --> 16:02.000
breeding cotton-top tamarins in

16:02.000 --> 16:04.000
captivity in the 1970s believed

16:04.000 --> 16:05.000
that parenting skills were

16:05.000 --> 16:07.000
innate.

16:07.000 --> 16:08.000
And, therefore, what they could

16:08.000 --> 16:10.000
to was to take infants or take

16:10.000 --> 16:12.000
adolescents away from their

16:12.000 --> 16:13.000
family groups at an early age

16:13.000 --> 16:15.000
and get them to breed, and I'll

16:15.000 --> 16:16.000
show you what the consequences

16:16.000 --> 16:18.000
of not letting animals stay at

16:18.000 --> 16:20.000
home and live with their parents

16:20.000 --> 16:22.000
for a period of time are.

16:22.000 --> 16:25.000
They're significant.

16:25.000 --> 16:26.000
Cozy cages were thought to be

16:26.000 --> 16:27.000
sufficient.

16:27.000 --> 16:29.000
And I'll say some more about

16:29.000 --> 16:30.000
cage size and cage volume.

16:30.000 --> 16:31.000
We had a big run in with our

16:31.000 --> 16:33.000
veterinarians in the 1970s

16:33.000 --> 16:35.000
because there's a belief by

16:35.000 --> 16:37.000
veterinarians that all surfaces

16:37.000 --> 16:38.000
have to be impermeable and

16:38.000 --> 16:40.000
sterilizable, and yet there's

16:40.000 --> 16:42.000
some good reasons, biologically,

16:42.000 --> 16:43.000
why not all surfaces should be

16:43.000 --> 16:46.000
that way for tamarins.

16:46.000 --> 16:47.000
Sterilization is important,

16:47.000 --> 16:49.000
cleanliness is important, but we

16:49.000 --> 16:50.000
need to think carefully about

16:50.000 --> 16:51.000
the biological needs of the

16:51.000 --> 16:53.000
animals as well.

16:53.000 --> 16:54.000
And finally, people ask a lot

16:54.000 --> 16:56.000
about should animals be

16:56.000 --> 16:57.000
reintroduced into the wild?

16:57.000 --> 16:59.000
And there's a thought among many

16:59.000 --> 17:01.000
biologists, many of my

17:01.000 --> 17:03.000
colleagues, that predator fear

17:03.000 --> 17:04.000
is something that is innate,

17:04.000 --> 17:05.000
that animals don't have to learn

17:05.000 --> 17:06.000
about predators.

17:06.000 --> 17:08.000
And I want to try to argue that

17:08.000 --> 17:09.000
these are all myths that have to

17:09.000 --> 17:10.000
be overcome in order to rear and

17:10.000 --> 17:12.000
think about reintroduce in a

17:12.000 --> 17:14.000
serious way.

17:14.000 --> 17:15.000
So, noninvasive methods can

17:15.000 --> 17:17.000
work.

17:17.000 --> 17:18.000
We developed ways to minimize

17:18.000 --> 17:20.000
handling of animals by, among

17:20.000 --> 17:21.000
other things, luring them down

17:21.000 --> 17:23.000
to stand on a scale by giving

17:23.000 --> 17:25.000
them a raisin or a treat, and

17:25.000 --> 17:26.000
they would sit on the scale and

17:26.000 --> 17:28.000
we could weigh them.

17:28.000 --> 17:29.000
We could medicate them by hiding

17:29.000 --> 17:31.000
the medication in a piece of

17:31.000 --> 17:33.000
cookie or piece of banana and

17:33.000 --> 17:34.000
feeding it to them through the

17:34.000 --> 17:36.000
cage walls so we didn't have to

17:36.000 --> 17:37.000
capture the animal every time we

17:37.000 --> 17:38.000
wanted to give it an antibiotic

17:38.000 --> 17:40.000
or give it something else.

17:40.000 --> 17:42.000
We figured out ways to transfer

17:42.000 --> 17:43.000
animals to new environments

17:43.000 --> 17:45.000
without having to capture them

17:45.000 --> 17:48.000
or ever handle them, through air

17:48.000 --> 17:49.000
condition ducting and I'll show

17:49.000 --> 17:51.000
you that in a minute.

17:51.000 --> 17:53.000
Also monitored hormones by

17:53.000 --> 17:54.000
collecting urine samples which

17:54.000 --> 17:55.000
is a very easy way and a very

17:55.000 --> 17:58.000
unorthodox method of looking at

17:58.000 --> 18:02.000
urine samples, of looking at

18:02.000 --> 18:05.000
hormones back when we started.

18:05.000 --> 18:07.000
And we ended up testing the

18:07.000 --> 18:09.000
cognitive skills of the animals

18:09.000 --> 18:10.000
by bringing the apparatus to the

18:10.000 --> 18:12.000
animal rather than taking the

18:12.000 --> 18:14.000
animal away and putting it

18:14.000 --> 18:15.000
somewhere where they would have

18:15.000 --> 18:16.000
to work with the apparatus in a

18:16.000 --> 18:19.000
strange environment.

18:19.000 --> 18:20.000
So here's an example of using

18:20.000 --> 18:22.000
air condition ducting to

18:22.000 --> 18:23.000
transfer monkeys.

18:23.000 --> 18:24.000
Here's a large cage here.

18:24.000 --> 18:26.000
Here's a cage on wheels.

18:26.000 --> 18:27.000
What we could do is to lure an

18:27.000 --> 18:28.000
animal through the air condition

18:28.000 --> 18:30.000
ducting into this cage on

18:30.000 --> 18:31.000
wheels, and then if we wanted to

18:31.000 --> 18:33.000
take an animal down and

18:33.000 --> 18:34.000
introduce it to a new partner,

18:34.000 --> 18:35.000
we could just move the wheeled

18:35.000 --> 18:37.000
cage down, reconnecting the air

18:37.000 --> 18:39.000
condition ducting and have

18:39.000 --> 18:40.000
animals move into the cage

18:40.000 --> 18:41.000
without ever having to touch the

18:41.000 --> 18:43.000
animals.

18:43.000 --> 18:45.000
We collected urine samples very

18:45.000 --> 18:47.000
easily.

18:47.000 --> 18:48.000
Toni Ziegler, my colleague for

18:48.000 --> 18:51.000
the last 20-some years, I won't

18:51.000 --> 18:52.000
say exactly how long, has been

18:52.000 --> 18:54.000
very valuable in developing some

18:54.000 --> 18:55.000
incredible ways to get hormonal

18:55.000 --> 18:57.000
information out of urine

18:57.000 --> 19:00.000
samples.

19:00.000 --> 19:02.000
And we've realized early on that

19:02.000 --> 19:04.000
monkeys, very much like us, the

19:04.000 --> 19:06.000
first thing you do in the

19:06.000 --> 19:07.000
morning when you get up is

19:07.000 --> 19:09.000
probably go for the bathroom and

19:09.000 --> 19:10.000
pee, and one of the first things

19:10.000 --> 19:12.000
monkeys do when they wake up in

19:12.000 --> 19:13.000
the morning is to pee as well.

19:13.000 --> 19:15.000
And so what we had were we could

19:15.000 --> 19:17.000
get people to come in, wake up

19:17.000 --> 19:19.000
the monkeys early in the

19:19.000 --> 19:21.000
morning, walk around with a

19:21.000 --> 19:23.000
bucket under them, and collect a

19:23.000 --> 19:25.000
urine sample when it came out,

19:25.000 --> 19:26.000
and it gave us a way in which we

19:26.000 --> 19:28.000
could collect data from animals,

19:28.000 --> 19:29.000
monitor the reproductive state,

19:29.000 --> 19:31.000
monitor a variety of other

19:31.000 --> 19:32.000
things about them, which I'll

19:32.000 --> 19:33.000
show you in a minute, without

19:33.000 --> 19:35.000
ever having to capture and

19:35.000 --> 19:36.000
handle them.

19:36.000 --> 19:37.000
And, as I said, at the time this

19:37.000 --> 19:38.000
was a very unusual way to go.

19:38.000 --> 19:40.000
David Abbott and some of his

19:40.000 --> 19:41.000
colleagues from the Institute of

19:41.000 --> 19:43.000
Zoology in London have come up

19:43.000 --> 19:45.000
with some ways of using urinary

19:45.000 --> 19:47.000
assays, and we've adopted on

19:47.000 --> 19:49.000
that and expanded on those.

19:49.000 --> 19:51.000
So some of the hormones that

19:51.000 --> 19:52.000
we're able to measure, have

19:52.000 --> 19:54.000
measured in urine samples from

19:54.000 --> 19:55.000
cotton-top tamarins are

19:55.000 --> 19:57.000
estradiol and estrone, female

19:57.000 --> 19:59.000
hormones having to do with

19:59.000 --> 20:00.000
reproductive cycles;

20:00.000 --> 20:02.000
testosterone, which is involved

20:02.000 --> 20:03.000
oftentimes in aggression but

20:03.000 --> 20:05.000
also in parenting behavior;

20:05.000 --> 20:06.000
dihydrotestosterone, involved in

20:06.000 --> 20:08.000
sexual behavior; cortisol and

20:08.000 --> 20:10.000
corticosterone, which are

20:10.000 --> 20:11.000
stress-related hormones;

20:11.000 --> 20:13.000
prolactin and oxytocin, which

20:13.000 --> 20:15.000
are really interesting hormones

20:15.000 --> 20:17.000
that are involved in nursing and

20:17.000 --> 20:18.000
parenting and also in pair

20:18.000 --> 20:20.000
bonding; and luteinizing

20:20.000 --> 20:21.000
hormone, which is an important

20:21.000 --> 20:23.000
key for ovulation.

20:23.000 --> 20:24.000
And all these were things that

20:24.000 --> 20:25.000
when we first began the gold

20:25.000 --> 20:26.000
standard was to use blood

20:26.000 --> 20:27.000
samples.

20:27.000 --> 20:29.000
And the only way the

20:29.000 --> 20:30.000
endocrinologists would accept

20:30.000 --> 20:32.000
the work was if you had captured

20:32.000 --> 20:35.000
an animal, taken a blood sample,

20:35.000 --> 20:37.000
and measured the hormones from

20:37.000 --> 20:38.000
that.

20:38.000 --> 20:39.000
So it took a long time for

20:39.000 --> 20:41.000
various of us who were

20:41.000 --> 20:42.000
interested in developing

20:42.000 --> 20:43.000
noninvasive ways to argue and

20:43.000 --> 20:45.000
make is clear there's some clear

20:45.000 --> 20:46.000
advantages, both in terms of

20:46.000 --> 20:48.000
minimizing stress to animals,

20:48.000 --> 20:49.000
but also some clear advantages

20:49.000 --> 20:51.000
in terms of the quality of the

20:51.000 --> 20:52.000
hormonal data that you can get,

20:52.000 --> 20:54.000
especially looking at long-term

20:54.000 --> 20:56.000
hormonal effects that we can get

20:56.000 --> 20:57.000
by using urine instead of some

20:57.000 --> 21:00.000
other method.

21:00.000 --> 21:02.000
Toni Ziegler has gone on to

21:02.000 --> 21:03.000
expand this work to help other

21:03.000 --> 21:05.000
people around the world who were

21:05.000 --> 21:07.000
interested in looking at

21:07.000 --> 21:08.000
hormones.

21:08.000 --> 21:10.000
This is just a list of the

21:10.000 --> 21:11.000
species where Toni Ziegler has

21:11.000 --> 21:13.000
used her expertise to help

21:13.000 --> 21:14.000
develop noninvasive hormonal

21:14.000 --> 21:15.000
work.

21:15.000 --> 21:17.000
The species that are sort of

21:17.000 --> 21:18.000
bolded are endangered species.

21:18.000 --> 21:20.000
So you can see that she's doing

21:20.000 --> 21:21.000
a lot of work to apply these

21:21.000 --> 21:23.000
assays to help people understand

21:23.000 --> 21:24.000
the reproductive biology and the

21:24.000 --> 21:26.000
stress physiology of animals

21:26.000 --> 21:27.000
living in the wild, and it's a

21:27.000 --> 21:29.000
very important role for

21:29.000 --> 21:32.000
understanding wild animals.

21:32.000 --> 21:33.000
And here are some of the

21:33.000 --> 21:34.000
hormones that Toni's been able

21:34.000 --> 21:36.000
to help people measure in field

21:36.000 --> 21:38.000
studies: cortisol, testosterone,

21:38.000 --> 21:39.000
dihydrotestosterone, estradiol,

21:39.000 --> 21:42.000
and oxytocin.

21:42.000 --> 21:44.000
The myth number two was that

21:44.000 --> 21:48.000
parents are able to take care of

21:48.000 --> 21:50.000
their young by themselves.

21:50.000 --> 21:52.000
And let me focus on the green

21:52.000 --> 21:54.000
data first, the green bars.

21:54.000 --> 21:55.000
Show data we've gathered in the

21:55.000 --> 21:57.000
field, keeping track of those

21:57.000 --> 21:59.000
infant survival like in the

21:59.000 --> 22:01.000
field as a function of how many

22:01.000 --> 22:03.000
helpers were there in a family

22:03.000 --> 22:04.000
group.

22:04.000 --> 22:06.000
So one helper means that there's

22:06.000 --> 22:07.000
a mother and a father, the

22:07.000 --> 22:09.000
father is a helper.

22:09.000 --> 22:10.000
And with increasing helpers you

22:10.000 --> 22:12.000
can see that we found that there

22:12.000 --> 22:14.000
was steady rise in infant

22:14.000 --> 22:16.000
survival rate until we got to

22:16.000 --> 22:18.000
group sizes of five, a mother

22:18.000 --> 22:20.000
plus four helpers.

22:20.000 --> 22:22.000
And only then did we get 100%

22:22.000 --> 22:24.000
survival rate in our field

22:24.000 --> 22:25.000
studies.

22:25.000 --> 22:27.000
We then came back and I looked

22:27.000 --> 22:28.000
at our captive data asking the

22:28.000 --> 22:30.000
same question, and much to my

22:30.000 --> 22:31.000
surprise we found exactly the

22:31.000 --> 22:33.000
same thing happening in

22:33.000 --> 22:34.000
captivity.

22:34.000 --> 22:36.000
Even though animals were well

22:36.000 --> 22:38.000
fed, they had access to food,

22:38.000 --> 22:39.000
they didn't have to run away

22:39.000 --> 22:40.000
from predators, and what we find

22:40.000 --> 22:42.000
is that in our captive

22:42.000 --> 22:44.000
populations animals, infant

22:44.000 --> 22:45.000
survival reaches 100% only when

22:45.000 --> 22:48.000
we had family sizes of five or

22:48.000 --> 22:50.000
larger to be able to help take

22:50.000 --> 22:51.000
care of kids.

22:51.000 --> 22:53.000
So this creates some interesting

22:53.000 --> 22:55.000
questions about why are these

22:55.000 --> 22:57.000
helpers important?

22:57.000 --> 22:58.000
Why even in captivity are they

22:58.000 --> 22:59.000
so important?

22:59.000 --> 23:01.000
Secondly, it says we can't

23:01.000 --> 23:02.000
really house the animals in pair

23:02.000 --> 23:04.000
cages.

23:04.000 --> 23:05.000
If we want them to breed

23:05.000 --> 23:06.000
successfully, we have to have

23:06.000 --> 23:08.000
larger cages big enough to hold

23:08.000 --> 23:09.000
whole family groups together.

23:09.000 --> 23:11.000
And there's one other important

23:11.000 --> 23:12.000
question I'll get to in just a

23:12.000 --> 23:13.000
second.

23:13.000 --> 23:15.000
In is data from one of my

23:15.000 --> 23:16.000
colleagues, Sofia Zahed, which

23:16.000 --> 23:18.000
found that parents' effort is

23:18.000 --> 23:20.000
reduced by increasing number of

23:20.000 --> 23:21.000
helpers.

23:21.000 --> 23:23.000
So fathers show the greatest

23:23.000 --> 23:25.000
influence of having extra

23:25.000 --> 23:26.000
helpers around, they carry less

23:26.000 --> 23:27.000
and less.

23:27.000 --> 23:29.000
But mothers also show an effect

23:29.000 --> 23:30.000
where by the time we get to

23:30.000 --> 23:31.000
family sizes of five mothers are

23:31.000 --> 23:33.000
doing much less caring then they

23:33.000 --> 23:34.000
do before.

23:34.000 --> 23:36.000
Remember, mothers are the ones

23:36.000 --> 23:37.000
who have the greatest energetic

23:37.000 --> 23:39.000
load, they've just giving birth

23:39.000 --> 23:40.000
to two really heavy twins,

23:40.000 --> 23:42.000
they're nursing those twins, and

23:42.000 --> 23:43.000
they're pregnant again.

23:43.000 --> 23:44.000
And so reducing the load on

23:44.000 --> 23:46.000
mothers may have a really

23:46.000 --> 23:47.000
important role to play in infant

23:47.000 --> 23:49.000
survival too.

23:49.000 --> 23:50.000
And males carry more than

23:50.000 --> 23:52.000
females.

23:52.000 --> 23:54.000
This is looking at sub-adult and

23:54.000 --> 23:56.000
adult males and females, older

23:56.000 --> 23:58.000
brothers and sisters.

23:58.000 --> 24:00.000
And you can see that brothers do

24:00.000 --> 24:01.000
about twice as much infant care

24:01.000 --> 24:03.000
taking, especially as they get

24:03.000 --> 24:05.000
older, as sisters do.

24:05.000 --> 24:06.000
So infant care taking is a male

24:06.000 --> 24:08.000
affair, not so much a female

24:08.000 --> 24:10.000
affair.

24:10.000 --> 24:12.000
But parent skills are not

24:12.000 --> 24:14.000
innate, as people thought when

24:14.000 --> 24:16.000
they were working with these

24:16.000 --> 24:17.000
animals when we first started.

24:17.000 --> 24:20.000
These are data from a woman

24:20.000 --> 24:22.000
named -- who had done a lot of

24:22.000 --> 24:24.000
work with a another related

24:24.000 --> 24:25.000
species of marmoset.

24:25.000 --> 24:27.000
This is showing survival rate as

24:27.000 --> 24:29.000
a function of did a monkey grow

24:29.000 --> 24:31.000
up in an environment where she

24:31.000 --> 24:33.000
or he had a chance to care for

24:33.000 --> 24:35.000
somebody else's infants.

24:35.000 --> 24:37.000
So when both animals are

24:37.000 --> 24:38.000
experienced and both parents

24:38.000 --> 24:40.000
have grown up in a family where

24:40.000 --> 24:41.000
they could take care of somebody

24:41.000 --> 24:43.000
else's infants, we have 100%

24:43.000 --> 24:44.000
survival.

24:44.000 --> 24:46.000
If both animals in the pair are

24:46.000 --> 24:48.000
naive, that is they've grown up

24:48.000 --> 24:50.000
in a family where they have not

24:50.000 --> 24:51.000
had a chance to take care of

24:51.000 --> 24:53.000
infants, survival rate is below

24:53.000 --> 24:54.000
20%.

24:54.000 --> 24:56.000
And we can see that mother's

24:56.000 --> 24:57.000
naive and father's naive give us

24:57.000 --> 24:59.000
intermediate values where one

24:59.000 --> 25:01.000
partner is sophisticated and

25:01.000 --> 25:03.000
experienced.

25:03.000 --> 25:04.000
What this show, I think, is that

25:04.000 --> 25:06.000
parental care experience is

25:06.000 --> 25:07.000
really important.

25:07.000 --> 25:09.000
But this is a different species

25:09.000 --> 25:11.000
than the cotton-top tamarin.

25:11.000 --> 25:12.000
So let's look at cotton-top

25:12.000 --> 25:13.000
tamarin data.

25:13.000 --> 25:15.000
This is not from our lab because

25:15.000 --> 25:16.000
we never raised any animals that

25:16.000 --> 25:18.000
did not have experience in their

25:18.000 --> 25:20.000
family groups.

25:20.000 --> 25:21.000
But if we look at here, we find

25:21.000 --> 25:22.000
two different experiences going

25:22.000 --> 25:24.000
on.

25:24.000 --> 25:25.000
First of all, let me call

25:25.000 --> 25:26.000
attention to the bar graphs for

25:26.000 --> 25:27.000
the inexperienced animals.

25:27.000 --> 25:29.000
They're in purple, I think.

25:29.000 --> 25:31.000
And you can't see them because

25:31.000 --> 25:32.000
in this particular study with

25:32.000 --> 25:34.000
cotton-top tamarins, there was

25:34.000 --> 25:36.000
not a single surviving infant to

25:36.000 --> 25:38.000
parents who were rearing infants

25:38.000 --> 25:40.000
without having had experience in

25:40.000 --> 25:41.000
their own family groups.

25:41.000 --> 25:43.000
So the only animals that were

25:43.000 --> 25:45.000
successful were animals that had

25:45.000 --> 25:46.000
grown up in a family group where

25:46.000 --> 25:48.000
they could care for somebody

25:48.000 --> 25:49.000
else's kids, and even when they

25:49.000 --> 25:51.000
did it the first time they

25:51.000 --> 25:53.000
weren't nearly as good and

25:53.000 --> 25:54.000
successful at caring for infants

25:54.000 --> 25:56.000
as they were when they bred

25:56.000 --> 25:57.000
subsequently.

25:57.000 --> 25:59.000
So we have two types of learning

25:59.000 --> 26:00.000
effects.

26:00.000 --> 26:01.000
Animals have to have experience

26:01.000 --> 26:03.000
in their family groups to learn

26:03.000 --> 26:04.000
how to care for infants

26:04.000 --> 26:06.000
successfully, and secondly, even

26:06.000 --> 26:08.000
first time parents have trouble

26:08.000 --> 26:09.000
keeping infants alive and they

26:09.000 --> 26:12.000
have to get some experience.

26:12.000 --> 26:13.000
So learning plays a really

26:13.000 --> 26:15.000
important role in parenting.

26:15.000 --> 26:17.000
And I oftentimes question

26:17.000 --> 26:20.000
freshman in my classes, why do

26:20.000 --> 26:23.000
we have to take drivers training

26:23.000 --> 26:25.000
classes and a drivers test and

26:25.000 --> 26:26.000
we don't require people to take

26:26.000 --> 26:28.000
a parent test and pass a

26:28.000 --> 26:29.000
parenting test in order to

26:29.000 --> 26:30.000
become parents?

26:30.000 --> 26:31.000
They usually get offended by

26:31.000 --> 26:33.000
that question, but I think it's

26:33.000 --> 26:34.000
something we need to think about

26:34.000 --> 26:35.000
for ourselves as well.

26:35.000 --> 26:38.000
Cozy cages are not going to be

26:38.000 --> 26:39.000
large enough for family groups.

26:39.000 --> 26:42.000
The US Department of Agriculture

26:42.000 --> 26:43.000
provides minimum standards for

26:43.000 --> 26:45.000
cage sizes.

26:45.000 --> 26:46.000
And I'm putting this in volume

26:46.000 --> 26:47.000
here because volume is what

26:47.000 --> 26:48.000
matters.

26:48.000 --> 26:50.000
These are arboreal animals, as I

26:50.000 --> 26:51.000
said earlier.

26:51.000 --> 26:52.000
They like heights.

26:52.000 --> 26:54.000
So the USDA minimum cage size

26:54.000 --> 26:55.000
volume is here.

26:55.000 --> 26:58.000
Our pair cages were this size,

26:58.000 --> 26:59.000
and this is the volume of our

26:59.000 --> 27:01.000
family cages that would house

27:01.000 --> 27:03.000
families with multiple kids.

27:03.000 --> 27:08.000
I was trying to translate this

27:08.000 --> 27:10.000
to human terms, and my wife,

27:10.000 --> 27:12.000
Ann, suggested I should think

27:12.000 --> 27:13.000
about this and translate it to

27:13.000 --> 27:15.000
floor space.

27:15.000 --> 27:18.000
So a monkey weighs about 100th

27:18.000 --> 27:20.000
of what an average human weighs.

27:20.000 --> 27:22.000
So if we think an average human

27:22.000 --> 27:24.000
weighing about 150 pounds and a

27:24.000 --> 27:26.000
monkey weighing a pound and a

27:26.000 --> 27:27.000
half, if we calculate the floor

27:27.000 --> 27:29.000
space, the USDA size minimum

27:29.000 --> 27:31.000
cages would give you about 270

27:31.000 --> 27:33.000
square feet, about the size of a

27:33.000 --> 27:35.000
good sized dorm room.

27:35.000 --> 27:39.000
For a pair living alone without

27:39.000 --> 27:41.000
reproducing, they had 1900

27:41.000 --> 27:43.000
square feet, which is a

27:43.000 --> 27:45.000
moderately sized, it's just a

27:45.000 --> 27:47.000
nice sized house to have.

27:47.000 --> 27:49.000
And the family groups with four

27:49.000 --> 27:50.000
to six kids would have close to

27:50.000 --> 27:52.000
the equivalent of 6,000 square

27:52.000 --> 27:53.000
feet to live in.

27:53.000 --> 27:56.000
But, as I said, volume is more

27:56.000 --> 27:57.000
important than mere floor space

27:57.000 --> 27:59.000
for these guys.

27:59.000 --> 28:01.000
So large cages seem to be really

28:01.000 --> 28:03.000
important for us, too.

28:03.000 --> 28:05.000
As I mentioned before, we had

28:05.000 --> 28:06.000
some arguments with

28:06.000 --> 28:08.000
veterinarians when we first

28:08.000 --> 28:09.000
began because we wanted to use

28:09.000 --> 28:10.000
wooden surfaces and ropes and

28:10.000 --> 28:12.000
things, as I'm showing here.

28:12.000 --> 28:15.000
Tamarins are clawed primates.

28:15.000 --> 28:17.000
They don't have fingernails,

28:17.000 --> 28:18.000
they have claws.

28:18.000 --> 28:19.000
And when they climb they have to

28:19.000 --> 28:21.000
get their claws into something.

28:21.000 --> 28:22.000
So if we had stainless steel

28:22.000 --> 28:24.000
surfaces or plastic surfaces,

28:24.000 --> 28:25.000
what are they going to get their

28:25.000 --> 28:26.000
claws into?

28:26.000 --> 28:27.000
So it felt very important for us

28:27.000 --> 28:29.000
and we managed to convince

28:29.000 --> 28:30.000
veterinarians, and ultimately

28:30.000 --> 28:32.000
now the USDA inspectors who come

28:32.000 --> 28:34.000
through are very happy to see a

28:34.000 --> 28:36.000
lot of soft surfaces, but soft

28:36.000 --> 28:38.000
surfaces like branches, ropes,

28:38.000 --> 28:39.000
and things like this are very

28:39.000 --> 28:41.000
valuable for keeping animals

28:41.000 --> 28:43.000
happy and giving them surfaces

28:43.000 --> 28:44.000
that they can climb on, they can

28:44.000 --> 28:45.000
jump from one surface to

28:45.000 --> 28:46.000
another.

28:46.000 --> 28:48.000
And yes we do still worry about

28:48.000 --> 28:49.000
sterilization, so we clear out

28:49.000 --> 28:51.000
these branches and ropes every

28:51.000 --> 28:53.000
three months or so, put in a

28:53.000 --> 28:55.000
whole new set of things so the

28:55.000 --> 28:57.000
animals have a chance to learn a

28:57.000 --> 28:58.000
whole new set of motor skills as

28:58.000 --> 29:00.000
they have new branches and

29:00.000 --> 29:02.000
things to do, to climb up.

29:02.000 --> 29:03.000
And finally, we've done a couple

29:03.000 --> 29:05.000
of studies to show that tamarins

29:05.000 --> 29:06.000
do not have any sort of innate

29:06.000 --> 29:08.000
fear of predators.

29:08.000 --> 29:10.000
We've put snakes in their cage,

29:10.000 --> 29:12.000
fed boa constrictors, and they

29:12.000 --> 29:14.000
showed mild arousal and

29:14.000 --> 29:16.000
curiosity to a boa constrictor

29:16.000 --> 29:18.000
but don't show any innate fear

29:18.000 --> 29:19.000
response.

29:19.000 --> 29:21.000
We tried to condition animals to

29:21.000 --> 29:22.000
become afraid of snakes because

29:22.000 --> 29:23.000
we thought if we're ever going

29:23.000 --> 29:25.000
to return animals to the wild,

29:25.000 --> 29:26.000
we need to make sure that

29:26.000 --> 29:27.000
they're not going to be caught

29:27.000 --> 29:29.000
by snakes, and there's a

29:29.000 --> 29:30.000
wonderful photograph in a book

29:30.000 --> 29:32.000
on another endangered species,

29:32.000 --> 29:33.000
the golden lion tamarin, that

29:33.000 --> 29:35.000
had a radio collared animal was

29:35.000 --> 29:38.000
that tracked and the trackers

29:38.000 --> 29:40.000
found the signal coming from the

29:40.000 --> 29:42.000
belly of a boa constrictor in

29:42.000 --> 29:45.000
Brazil.

29:45.000 --> 29:47.000
So, in fact, learning about

29:47.000 --> 29:49.000
snakes and learning about other

29:49.000 --> 29:50.000
predators is something really

29:50.000 --> 29:52.000
important for these animals.

29:52.000 --> 29:53.000
We also showed that captive born

29:53.000 --> 29:55.000
tamarins had no selected fear

29:55.000 --> 29:56.000
response to vocalizations from

29:56.000 --> 29:58.000
predators compared to

29:58.000 --> 29:59.000
non-predators.

29:59.000 --> 30:01.000
So what this has are important

30:01.000 --> 30:02.000
implications for reintroduction

30:02.000 --> 30:04.000
of animals and also suggests

30:04.000 --> 30:05.000
something very important.

30:05.000 --> 30:07.000
Overall, the theme I'm trying to

30:07.000 --> 30:09.000
get at is that learning skills,

30:09.000 --> 30:11.000
basic survival skills is

30:11.000 --> 30:12.000
something that's very important

30:12.000 --> 30:14.000
and a good captive environment

30:14.000 --> 30:15.000
should be one that gives animals

30:15.000 --> 30:17.000
the normal social background,

30:17.000 --> 30:18.000
the normal social environment so

30:18.000 --> 30:19.000
that they can acquire these

30:19.000 --> 30:20.000
skills that are important to

30:20.000 --> 30:21.000
survival.

30:21.000 --> 30:23.000
So we began with 11 monkeys in

30:23.000 --> 30:25.000
1978 as a donation from a friend

30:25.000 --> 30:27.000
of mine in California who was

30:27.000 --> 30:29.000
doing research with them and was

30:29.000 --> 30:31.000
no longer interested.

30:31.000 --> 30:34.000
We, since 1978, have

30:34.000 --> 30:37.000
successfully bred enough animals

30:37.000 --> 30:38.000
so that we've given nearly 300

30:38.000 --> 30:41.000
away to other places.

30:41.000 --> 30:44.000
To zoos, to other noninvasive

30:44.000 --> 30:46.000
research institutions, many

30:46.000 --> 30:48.000
undergraduate colleges are now

30:48.000 --> 30:49.000
training their students on how

30:49.000 --> 30:51.000
to work non invasively with

30:51.000 --> 30:53.000
tamarins, and some have gone to

30:53.000 --> 30:55.000
sanctuaries as well.

30:55.000 --> 30:57.000
Our oldest monkey lived until

30:57.000 --> 30:59.000
she was 27 years of age, older

30:59.000 --> 31:00.000
than many of the students who

31:00.000 --> 31:02.000
worked with her.

31:02.000 --> 31:03.000
So again, it's kind of

31:03.000 --> 31:05.000
remarkable because for an animal

31:05.000 --> 31:07.000
that's as small as one and a

31:07.000 --> 31:09.000
half pounds to live for as long

31:09.000 --> 31:10.000
as 27 years is a really

31:10.000 --> 31:12.000
remarkable life span for an

31:12.000 --> 31:14.000
animal with a high metabolic

31:14.000 --> 31:16.000
rate and small body size.

31:16.000 --> 31:19.000
So, just to summarize some

31:19.000 --> 31:21.000
points about the value of

31:21.000 --> 31:22.000
research, and I'll give you some

31:22.000 --> 31:23.000
research examples in just a

31:23.000 --> 31:24.000
couple minutes.

31:24.000 --> 31:26.000
We must learn to breed animals

31:26.000 --> 31:28.000
successfully and that requires

31:28.000 --> 31:29.000
some careful research on how to

31:29.000 --> 31:30.000
do that.

31:30.000 --> 31:32.000
Once tamarins are extinct we

31:32.000 --> 31:33.000
can't study them anymore, so I

31:33.000 --> 31:35.000
think we have a moral imperative

31:35.000 --> 31:36.000
to learn about them.

31:36.000 --> 31:38.000
If we can come up with some

31:38.000 --> 31:39.000
interesting research findings, I

31:39.000 --> 31:41.000
think we can also make tamarins

31:41.000 --> 31:43.000
more interesting to other people

31:43.000 --> 31:45.000
and maybe get others involved in

31:45.000 --> 31:46.000
conservation.

31:46.000 --> 31:48.000
And I want to make a really

31:48.000 --> 31:49.000
clear point here that I don't

31:49.000 --> 31:51.000
think nonhuman primates are

31:51.000 --> 31:52.000
little humans, little furry

31:52.000 --> 31:54.000
humans, I don't think they're

31:54.000 --> 31:55.000
good stand-ins for humans, so

31:55.000 --> 31:56.000
the reason for studying them and

31:56.000 --> 31:58.000
why they're interesting to

31:58.000 --> 31:59.000
humans is a more subtle reason

31:59.000 --> 32:00.000
than simply saying they're a

32:00.000 --> 32:01.000
good stand-ins for humans.

32:01.000 --> 32:03.000
And a good example for that is

32:03.000 --> 32:04.000
chimpanzees, which are our close

32:04.000 --> 32:05.000
relatives but they're highly

32:05.000 --> 32:07.000
aggressive toward one another.

32:07.000 --> 32:08.000
Males kill infants frequently.

32:08.000 --> 32:10.000
They mate promiscuously and we

32:10.000 --> 32:12.000
may dream of doing that but few

32:12.000 --> 32:14.000
of us actually get around to get

32:14.000 --> 32:16.000
that opportunity.

32:16.000 --> 32:18.000
And more interestingly, perhaps,

32:18.000 --> 32:20.000
for our own sanitation purposes,

32:20.000 --> 32:22.000
the chimpanzees think nothing

32:22.000 --> 32:23.000
about defecating in their beds

32:23.000 --> 32:24.000
at night.

32:24.000 --> 32:26.000
So is this the species we want

32:26.000 --> 32:27.000
to use as a model for

32:27.000 --> 32:29.000
understanding human behavior?

32:29.000 --> 32:31.000
For some reasons, some things,

32:31.000 --> 32:32.000
they might be very valuable for

32:32.000 --> 32:34.000
but there are some other ways in

32:34.000 --> 32:35.000
which chimpanzees aren't so

32:35.000 --> 32:37.000
useful.

32:37.000 --> 32:39.000
But the more subtle point is

32:39.000 --> 32:40.000
that variation across primate

32:40.000 --> 32:42.000
species can lead us to new ways

32:42.000 --> 32:44.000
of thinking about human behavior

32:44.000 --> 32:45.000
and new questions to ask and

32:45.000 --> 32:47.000
study about humans.

32:47.000 --> 32:48.000
And as an example, I want to

32:48.000 --> 32:50.000
just briefly touch on work my

32:50.000 --> 32:52.000
colleague Karen Strier has been

32:52.000 --> 32:53.000
doing for the last 30 years in

32:53.000 --> 32:56.000
Brazil with an endangered

32:56.000 --> 32:58.000
species, the muriqui monkey.

32:58.000 --> 32:59.000
And muriquis are really

32:59.000 --> 33:01.000
interesting because there's no

33:01.000 --> 33:02.000
obvious dominance hierarchy and

33:02.000 --> 33:04.000
no obvious aggression occurring

33:04.000 --> 33:05.000
between animals in the wild, and

33:05.000 --> 33:06.000
this raises some interesting

33:06.000 --> 33:07.000
questions.

33:07.000 --> 33:08.000
If we're concerned about our own

33:08.000 --> 33:09.000
aggressiveness and want to know

33:09.000 --> 33:10.000
something about how we might

33:10.000 --> 33:12.000
adapt our lives to being less

33:12.000 --> 33:14.000
aggressive, then having the

33:14.000 --> 33:16.000
knowledge that Karen is gaining

33:16.000 --> 33:18.000
from studying muriquis in the

33:18.000 --> 33:20.000
wild may have some potential

33:20.000 --> 33:22.000
value for us.

33:22.000 --> 33:23.000
That's a source of variation

33:23.000 --> 33:25.000
that we usually don't think

33:25.000 --> 33:27.000
about that can be a value to us.

33:27.000 --> 33:29.000
Tamarins are one of the few

33:29.000 --> 33:30.000
primates that live in families,

33:30.000 --> 33:32.000
and they can help us, perhaps,

33:32.000 --> 33:33.000
think in new ways about human

33:33.000 --> 33:34.000
families.

33:34.000 --> 33:36.000
So how do fathers and others

33:36.000 --> 33:37.000
become involved in parenting?

33:37.000 --> 33:38.000
Are the communication skills and

33:38.000 --> 33:40.000
social skills that result from

33:40.000 --> 33:41.000
family life make their cognition

33:41.000 --> 33:43.000
better?

33:43.000 --> 33:45.000
And are family species, living

33:45.000 --> 33:46.000
species in general, more helpful

33:46.000 --> 33:48.000
and cooperative than other

33:48.000 --> 33:49.000
species?

33:49.000 --> 33:50.000
So let me come back to the

33:50.000 --> 33:52.000
questions I raised at the very

33:52.000 --> 33:53.000
beginning, why are tamarins

33:53.000 --> 33:54.000
interesting?

33:54.000 --> 33:58.000
How do they maintain monogamy?

33:58.000 --> 34:00.000
What behavior is important and

34:00.000 --> 34:02.000
what hormones might be involved

34:02.000 --> 34:03.000
in maintaining a close

34:03.000 --> 34:05.000
relationship?

34:05.000 --> 34:06.000
I mentioned already that twins

34:06.000 --> 34:08.000
weigh a lot.

34:08.000 --> 34:10.000
Mothers have cost they incur

34:10.000 --> 34:12.000
from pregnancy and nursing.

34:12.000 --> 34:13.000
Fathers carry infants and we

34:13.000 --> 34:15.000
find even captivity with all the

34:15.000 --> 34:17.000
food they can possibly eat,

34:17.000 --> 34:18.000
fathers still lose up to 10% of

34:18.000 --> 34:20.000
their body weight within the

34:20.000 --> 34:22.000
first two months of when infants

34:22.000 --> 34:24.000
are born when there are no

34:24.000 --> 34:26.000
helpers.

34:26.000 --> 34:28.000
We males face a really

34:28.000 --> 34:30.000
interesting problem in that

34:30.000 --> 34:32.000
every woman in this room

34:32.000 --> 34:34.000
obviously knows whenever she's

34:34.000 --> 34:36.000
pregnant and knows that the

34:36.000 --> 34:38.000
babies she produces are her own,

34:38.000 --> 34:39.000
but none of us men can ever been

34:39.000 --> 34:41.000
100% certain, unless we do a

34:41.000 --> 34:42.000
paternity test, that the babies

34:42.000 --> 34:44.000
we're helping to take care of

34:44.000 --> 34:46.000
are our own.

34:46.000 --> 34:47.000
So a good relationship with a

34:47.000 --> 34:50.000
good solid commitment to one

34:50.000 --> 34:51.000
another is something that's very

34:51.000 --> 34:53.000
important, especially for male

34:53.000 --> 34:55.000
primates.

34:55.000 --> 34:57.000
Grooming and contact are one of

34:57.000 --> 34:58.000
the ways in which this can be

34:58.000 --> 35:00.000
maintained, and we know that

35:00.000 --> 35:02.000
grooming with increase brain

35:02.000 --> 35:03.000
opioids, can reduce heart rate,

35:03.000 --> 35:05.000
reinforces learned behavior, can

35:05.000 --> 35:07.000
increase two hormones that are

35:07.000 --> 35:09.000
important in reward systems,

35:09.000 --> 35:11.000
prolactin and oxytocin, and

35:11.000 --> 35:13.000
grooming can also reduce

35:13.000 --> 35:14.000
cortisol.

35:14.000 --> 35:15.000
There's also some recent

35:15.000 --> 35:17.000
evidence that suggests being the

35:17.000 --> 35:18.000
one who does the grooming, not

35:18.000 --> 35:20.000
just being groomed but doing the

35:20.000 --> 35:21.000
grooming also provides a lot of

35:21.000 --> 35:22.000
benefits.

35:22.000 --> 35:23.000
So the individual who engages in

35:23.000 --> 35:25.000
the grooming behavior benefits

35:25.000 --> 35:27.000
physiologically as well.

35:27.000 --> 35:29.000
We found, interestingly, a

35:29.000 --> 35:31.000
series of asymmetries in

35:31.000 --> 35:33.000
grooming behavior.

35:33.000 --> 35:34.000
And this graph shows the

35:34.000 --> 35:36.000
percentage of dyads in which in

35:36.000 --> 35:38.000
tamarins where male groomed

35:38.000 --> 35:40.000
their mate more than the

35:40.000 --> 35:41.000
reverse.

35:41.000 --> 35:43.000
We find in wild marmosets as

35:43.000 --> 35:44.000
well, males grooming their

35:44.000 --> 35:46.000
mates, in 100% of the dyads

35:46.000 --> 35:48.000
males groom their partners much

35:48.000 --> 35:50.000
more than the reverse.

35:50.000 --> 35:52.000
We also find in wild marmosets

35:52.000 --> 35:54.000
that parents groomed their

35:54.000 --> 35:55.000
helpers significantly more often

35:55.000 --> 35:57.000
than the reverse.

35:57.000 --> 35:59.000
From a male's perspective, maybe

35:59.000 --> 36:00.000
I should be anxious about my

36:00.000 --> 36:02.000
partner.

36:02.000 --> 36:03.000
If I'm not sure about my

36:03.000 --> 36:05.000
paternity, then I should be the

36:05.000 --> 36:06.000
one to invest some effort into

36:06.000 --> 36:08.000
helping my partner be

36:08.000 --> 36:09.000
comfortable, be happy with me,

36:09.000 --> 36:11.000
and so this asymmetry we're

36:11.000 --> 36:13.000
seeing may be really important.

36:13.000 --> 36:15.000
Tamarin and marmoset monkeys

36:15.000 --> 36:16.000
spend up to 20% of their day in

36:16.000 --> 36:18.000
the wild grooming each other.

36:18.000 --> 36:19.000
So grooming plays a really

36:19.000 --> 36:21.000
important role, I think, in

36:21.000 --> 36:23.000
helping them stay together.

36:23.000 --> 36:25.000
Animals also engage in frequent

36:25.000 --> 36:26.000
nonconceptive sex.

36:26.000 --> 36:28.000
And what I mean by nonconception

36:28.000 --> 36:30.000
is we look at the female's

36:30.000 --> 36:31.000
ovulation date here, we can see

36:31.000 --> 36:33.000
that we can go back two weeks

36:33.000 --> 36:36.000
before ovulation or forward two

36:36.000 --> 36:38.000
weeks after ovulation and you

36:38.000 --> 36:40.000
can find that mating behavior,

36:40.000 --> 36:41.000
copulation behavior, is

36:41.000 --> 36:43.000
completely, I hope you can see

36:43.000 --> 36:45.000
this, completely unrelated to

36:45.000 --> 36:46.000
when ovulation occurs.

36:46.000 --> 36:48.000
This is curious because in most

36:48.000 --> 36:50.000
animals and most mammals,

36:50.000 --> 36:51.000
copulation is really tied to

36:51.000 --> 36:53.000
when females ovulate.

36:53.000 --> 36:55.000
And females oftentimes signal

36:55.000 --> 36:56.000
when they're ovulating to one

36:56.000 --> 36:57.000
another.

36:57.000 --> 36:59.000
We know that tamarins also do

36:59.000 --> 37:00.000
signal to each other when

37:00.000 --> 37:02.000
they're ovulating, so males are

37:02.000 --> 37:03.000
sensitive to odor cues that

37:03.000 --> 37:05.000
females give off that change

37:05.000 --> 37:06.000
when females are ovulating.

37:06.000 --> 37:08.000
But nonetheless, even though

37:08.000 --> 37:10.000
males can identify when females

37:10.000 --> 37:11.000
are ovulating, they're still

37:11.000 --> 37:13.000
mating with each other

37:13.000 --> 37:14.000
throughout the entire cycle.

37:14.000 --> 37:16.000
There's one other species that's

37:16.000 --> 37:17.000
very reminiscent of this, which

37:17.000 --> 37:19.000
is our own, where we mate with

37:19.000 --> 37:20.000
each other throughout the cycle

37:20.000 --> 37:22.000
and where we oftentimes have sex

37:22.000 --> 37:24.000
outside, at times when ovulation

37:24.000 --> 37:26.000
is not important.

37:26.000 --> 37:27.000
This raises an interesting

37:27.000 --> 37:29.000
question, why is there so much

37:29.000 --> 37:31.000
sex and what value might it

37:31.000 --> 37:32.000
have?

37:32.000 --> 37:33.000
Why is it not linked to

37:33.000 --> 37:35.000
ovulation?

37:35.000 --> 37:36.000
Suggested to me that there might

37:36.000 --> 37:37.000
be some social functions of

37:37.000 --> 37:39.000
nonconceptive sex just as

37:39.000 --> 37:40.000
there's social functions to

37:40.000 --> 37:41.000
grooming.

37:41.000 --> 37:43.000
And to examine that we started

37:43.000 --> 37:44.000
looking at some hormones, and

37:44.000 --> 37:45.000
two hormones that seemed be of

37:45.000 --> 37:47.000
interest were prolactin and

37:47.000 --> 37:48.000
oxytocin, which we know are

37:48.000 --> 37:49.000
important in infant in lots of

37:49.000 --> 37:52.000
female mammals.

37:52.000 --> 37:54.000
And we know from research done

37:54.000 --> 37:56.000
by several people now that

37:56.000 --> 37:58.000
oxytocin is involved in pair

37:58.000 --> 37:59.000
bonding, especially in female

37:59.000 --> 38:01.000
rodents that are monogamous.

38:01.000 --> 38:03.000
We also know that in humans at

38:03.000 --> 38:05.000
orgasm we find increases in

38:05.000 --> 38:08.000
oxytocin and prolactin in both

38:08.000 --> 38:11.000
men and women at orgasm

38:11.000 --> 38:12.000
suggesting that these hormones

38:12.000 --> 38:14.000
might have something to do with

38:14.000 --> 38:16.000
the reward of engaging in sexual

38:16.000 --> 38:18.000
behavior.

38:18.000 --> 38:20.000
So we asked the question of our

38:20.000 --> 38:21.000
tamarins, does variation and

38:21.000 --> 38:23.000
affiliation with their mate have

38:23.000 --> 38:24.000
any affect on these two

38:24.000 --> 38:26.000
hormones, oxytocin or prolactin?

38:26.000 --> 38:29.000
And can we identify different

38:29.000 --> 38:31.000
variables that might explain

38:31.000 --> 38:32.000
variation in these hormones that

38:32.000 --> 38:34.000
might suggest different roles

38:34.000 --> 38:36.000
for females and males in terms

38:36.000 --> 38:37.000
of what it takes to maintain a

38:37.000 --> 38:39.000
good relationship?

38:39.000 --> 38:40.000
So this is a figure that simply

38:40.000 --> 38:43.000
shows that this is looking at

38:43.000 --> 38:44.000
female prolactin levels related

38:44.000 --> 38:46.000
to how much affiliation behavior

38:46.000 --> 38:47.000
they engage in with their

38:47.000 --> 38:49.000
partner.

38:49.000 --> 38:50.000
And you can see there's a very

38:50.000 --> 38:51.000
clear and positive relationship.

38:51.000 --> 38:53.000
The more affiliation someone

38:53.000 --> 38:54.000
has, the higher her prolactin

38:54.000 --> 38:55.000
levels.

38:55.000 --> 38:57.000
This works for males and it

38:57.000 --> 38:58.000
works for the pairs as well.

38:58.000 --> 39:00.000
If we look at the hormone

39:00.000 --> 39:01.000
oxytocin, we also find a similar

39:01.000 --> 39:03.000
relationship that is as

39:03.000 --> 39:05.000
affiliative behavior increases

39:05.000 --> 39:07.000
within a pair, their joint

39:07.000 --> 39:08.000
oxytocin levels show an increase

39:08.000 --> 39:11.000
as well.

39:11.000 --> 39:13.000
And even though oxytocin has

39:13.000 --> 39:15.000
been looked at primarily as a

39:15.000 --> 39:17.000
female hormone, looked at in

39:17.000 --> 39:18.000
pair bonding in females, we

39:18.000 --> 39:21.000
found in tamarins that male and

39:21.000 --> 39:24.000
female levels here, male levels

39:24.000 --> 39:25.000
here, were very closely related

39:25.000 --> 39:27.000
to each other so that if we knew

39:27.000 --> 39:29.000
what the level was in a male, we

39:29.000 --> 39:31.000
could predict the level in a

39:31.000 --> 39:33.000
female.

39:33.000 --> 39:35.000
So overall we found within the

39:35.000 --> 39:37.000
species a 10-fold variation in

39:37.000 --> 39:39.000
the amount of affiliation, a

39:39.000 --> 39:41.000
10-fold variation in how much

39:41.000 --> 39:43.000
oxytocin levels they

39:43.000 --> 39:45.000
demonstrated, but no difference

39:45.000 --> 39:46.000
between the overall levels of

39:46.000 --> 39:48.000
males and females.

39:48.000 --> 39:50.000
However, we did find that what

39:50.000 --> 39:53.000
explained the variation oxytocin

39:53.000 --> 39:55.000
differed for the two sexes,

39:55.000 --> 39:57.000
maybe in way that some of you

39:57.000 --> 39:59.000
would find very predictable

39:59.000 --> 40:01.000
which was that variation in male

40:01.000 --> 40:02.000
oxytocin was explained by how

40:02.000 --> 40:04.000
much sex they had.

40:04.000 --> 40:06.000
Variation in female oxytocin was

40:06.000 --> 40:07.000
explained by how much cuddling

40:07.000 --> 40:08.000
and grooming they experienced.

40:08.000 --> 40:09.000
I got really excited about this

40:09.000 --> 40:11.000
result when I found it and went

40:11.000 --> 40:12.000
home and mentioned it to Ann and

40:12.000 --> 40:14.000
she just said, well, duh.

40:14.000 --> 40:15.000
[LAUGHTER]

40:15.000 --> 40:18.000
But I think it's interesting

40:18.000 --> 40:19.000
because we're told what's

40:19.000 --> 40:21.000
appropriate behavior for us

40:21.000 --> 40:22.000
to engage in.

40:22.000 --> 40:23.000
We have a culture, we have

40:23.000 --> 40:25.000
religious rules that tell us

40:25.000 --> 40:26.000
what to do.

40:26.000 --> 40:27.000
Here we have some animals that

40:27.000 --> 40:29.000
are not subjected to the

40:29.000 --> 40:30.000
cultural norms that we have and

40:30.000 --> 40:32.000
not subjected to religious rules

40:32.000 --> 40:34.000
that tell them how they should

40:34.000 --> 40:35.000
behave with one another.

40:35.000 --> 40:36.000
What we're finding is that for

40:36.000 --> 40:38.000
them the same sorts of variables

40:38.000 --> 40:39.000
seem to be important as we think

40:39.000 --> 40:41.000
are important for humans as

40:41.000 --> 40:42.000
well.

40:42.000 --> 40:43.000
And one final point to make

40:43.000 --> 40:45.000
about these animals that I found

40:45.000 --> 40:46.000
really remarkable is that

40:46.000 --> 40:48.000
females, in the pairs that had

40:48.000 --> 40:49.000
the highest levels of oxytocin,

40:49.000 --> 40:51.000
frequently solicited sex from

40:51.000 --> 40:52.000
their partners.

40:52.000 --> 40:54.000
And males in those same partners

40:54.000 --> 40:56.000
also initiated cuddling and

40:56.000 --> 40:57.000
grooming with their partner.

40:57.000 --> 40:59.000
So the best pairs, the ones with

40:59.000 --> 41:00.000
the highest levels of oxytocin,

41:00.000 --> 41:02.000
were the ones where each partner

41:02.000 --> 41:04.000
met the needs of their mate.

41:04.000 --> 41:06.000
And I think that's something

41:06.000 --> 41:08.000
important for us to think about

41:08.000 --> 41:09.000
for ourselves, too.

41:09.000 --> 41:11.000
So next part I want to talk

41:11.000 --> 41:13.000
about briefly is how do males,

41:13.000 --> 41:15.000
fathers and brothers, become

41:15.000 --> 41:16.000
good infant caretakers, what's

41:16.000 --> 41:17.000
the role of learning, and

41:17.000 --> 41:19.000
looking at hormonal changes.

41:19.000 --> 41:21.000
So I've had to label this figure

41:21.000 --> 41:23.000
now male carrying infant because

41:23.000 --> 41:24.000
typically when I showed this

41:24.000 --> 41:26.000
picture people would say, oh,

41:26.000 --> 41:27.000
look at the mother and her baby.

41:27.000 --> 41:29.000
And it's almost never the case

41:29.000 --> 41:30.000
that you'll see a mother

41:30.000 --> 41:32.000
carrying a baby on her back like

41:32.000 --> 41:33.000
this.

41:33.000 --> 41:34.000
Mothers will carry babies

41:34.000 --> 41:36.000
primarily to nurse them, but

41:36.000 --> 41:37.000
they rarely carry them on their

41:37.000 --> 41:38.000
back.

41:38.000 --> 41:40.000
As I've shown you already, it's

41:40.000 --> 41:41.000
up to fathers and brothers to do

41:41.000 --> 41:42.000
most of the infant carrying.

41:42.000 --> 41:44.000
We find that fathers have

41:44.000 --> 41:45.000
prolactin levels that are just

41:45.000 --> 41:47.000
as high as nursing mothers.

41:47.000 --> 41:48.000
So this hormone prolactin, which

41:48.000 --> 41:50.000
we used to think about as

41:50.000 --> 41:52.000
primarily involved in nursing

41:52.000 --> 41:54.000
and producing milk for females,

41:54.000 --> 41:56.000
is something that fathers show

41:56.000 --> 41:58.000
at the same level as mothers do,

41:58.000 --> 42:01.000
but curiously prolactin levels

42:01.000 --> 42:03.000
in fathers increase prior to the

42:03.000 --> 42:04.000
birth of infants.

42:04.000 --> 42:06.000
And we find a lot of other

42:06.000 --> 42:08.000
hormonal changes occurring in

42:08.000 --> 42:10.000
experienced fathers halfway

42:10.000 --> 42:12.000
through their pregnancy.

42:12.000 --> 42:14.000
One other thing that turns out

42:14.000 --> 42:15.000
to be very important is that

42:15.000 --> 42:16.000
mothers must allow fathers and

42:16.000 --> 42:18.000
others to access their infants,

42:18.000 --> 42:19.000
and I think this also has some

42:19.000 --> 42:21.000
relevance for humans as well.

42:21.000 --> 42:22.000
This is a complex figure but let

42:22.000 --> 42:23.000
me call attention to two major

42:23.000 --> 42:25.000
things.

42:25.000 --> 42:26.000
One is that the upper graph in

42:26.000 --> 42:28.000
every case shows hormone levels

42:28.000 --> 42:29.000
for experienced dads and the

42:29.000 --> 42:32.000
lower graph, those triangles,

42:32.000 --> 42:33.000
shows first time fathers.

42:33.000 --> 42:35.000
And you can see that there's

42:35.000 --> 42:36.000
some very clear differences

42:36.000 --> 42:37.000
between experienced fathers and

42:37.000 --> 42:39.000
first time fathers and hormones.

42:39.000 --> 42:41.000
Testosterone, not much

42:41.000 --> 42:42.000
difference in

42:42.000 --> 42:43.000
dihydrotestosterone.

42:43.000 --> 42:45.000
But look, here's estradiol and

42:45.000 --> 42:47.000
estrone, two female typical

42:47.000 --> 42:48.000
hormones which we're seeing

42:48.000 --> 42:50.000
develop in males, especially

42:50.000 --> 42:52.000
experienced males, over the

42:52.000 --> 42:53.000
course of their mate's

42:53.000 --> 42:54.000
pregnancy.

42:54.000 --> 42:56.000
And we find prolactin levels are

42:56.000 --> 42:57.000
changing in experienced fathers

42:57.000 --> 42:59.000
fairly early in the pregnancy,

42:59.000 --> 43:01.000
but in the last month, first

43:01.000 --> 43:03.000
time fathers' prolactin levels

43:03.000 --> 43:05.000
also increase as well.

43:05.000 --> 43:06.000
So what we have is some

43:06.000 --> 43:07.000
remarkable changes in the

43:07.000 --> 43:09.000
hormonal milieu of male

43:09.000 --> 43:12.000
caretakers during the course of

43:12.000 --> 43:13.000
their mate's pregnancy which

43:13.000 --> 43:15.000
begs the question how do they

43:15.000 --> 43:16.000
know that their mates are

43:16.000 --> 43:17.000
pregnant.

43:17.000 --> 43:19.000
You come home, a human woman

43:19.000 --> 43:21.000
comes home and says, hey honey,

43:21.000 --> 43:22.000
guess what?

43:22.000 --> 43:24.000
The doctor confirmed that I'm

43:24.000 --> 43:25.000
pregnant.

43:25.000 --> 43:26.000
And we all rejoice and take

43:26.000 --> 43:28.000
pleasure in that, usually.

43:28.000 --> 43:30.000
But how does a monkey

43:30.000 --> 43:31.000
communicate to her mate that

43:31.000 --> 43:33.000
she's pregnant?

43:33.000 --> 43:36.000
How does he know halfway through

43:36.000 --> 43:37.000
pregnancy to start changing his

43:37.000 --> 43:39.000
hormones?

43:39.000 --> 43:40.000
The one possibility that we've

43:40.000 --> 43:43.000
found is that fathers' hormones

43:43.000 --> 43:45.000
start changing, we find a type

43:45.000 --> 43:47.000
of hormone called

43:47.000 --> 43:48.000
glucocorticoids that starts

43:48.000 --> 43:50.000
increasing within a week of when

43:50.000 --> 43:52.000
we think the fetal adrenal gland

43:52.000 --> 43:53.000
begins to create

43:53.000 --> 43:55.000
glucocorticoids, and the mother,

43:55.000 --> 43:56.000
stuck with these extra

43:56.000 --> 43:58.000
glucocorticoids in her body,

43:58.000 --> 44:00.000
excretes them to the outside.

44:00.000 --> 44:01.000
So we find that the mother,

44:01.000 --> 44:03.000
halfway through her pregnancy,

44:03.000 --> 44:05.000
begins excreting very high

44:05.000 --> 44:06.000
levels of these stress-like

44:06.000 --> 44:08.000
hormones glucocorticoids and

44:08.000 --> 44:10.000
within a week of when she starts

44:10.000 --> 44:11.000
excreting those hormones,

44:11.000 --> 44:14.000
fathers, experienced fathers but

44:14.000 --> 44:16.000
not first time dads, start

44:16.000 --> 44:17.000
showing changes in their

44:17.000 --> 44:19.000
hormones as well.

44:19.000 --> 44:20.000
This raises the tantalizing

44:20.000 --> 44:22.000
possibility that the fetus is

44:22.000 --> 44:24.000
excreting something using the

44:24.000 --> 44:26.000
mother as the vehicle to change

44:26.000 --> 44:27.000
the behavior of the father and

44:27.000 --> 44:29.000
get the father's hormones ready

44:29.000 --> 44:31.000
to be prepare.

44:31.000 --> 44:34.000
This raises all sorts of

44:34.000 --> 44:36.000
questions about, this raises all

44:36.000 --> 44:38.000
sorts of questions about human

44:38.000 --> 44:40.000
fathers.

44:40.000 --> 44:41.000
People have not really looked

44:41.000 --> 44:42.000
very closely until very recently

44:42.000 --> 44:44.000
at what hormonal changes might

44:44.000 --> 44:46.000
occur in human fathers and when

44:46.000 --> 44:47.000
in pregnancy do these changes

44:47.000 --> 44:49.000
occur.

44:49.000 --> 44:50.000
And what this suggests is that

44:50.000 --> 44:52.000
there may be some interesting,

44:52.000 --> 44:54.000
important hormonal changes that

44:54.000 --> 44:55.000
occur in human fathers during

44:55.000 --> 44:57.000
their mate's pregnancy and

44:57.000 --> 44:58.000
there's also some potential

44:58.000 --> 45:00.000
signal mechanisms that we're

45:00.000 --> 45:01.000
learning about that are

45:01.000 --> 45:03.000
important for what might be cues

45:03.000 --> 45:05.000
for males to pay attention to in

45:05.000 --> 45:08.000
their pregnant partners.

45:08.000 --> 45:10.000
Experienced mothers have to let

45:10.000 --> 45:12.000
go, find that they do let others

45:12.000 --> 45:14.000
take care of infants but one of

45:14.000 --> 45:15.000
the problems with first time

45:15.000 --> 45:17.000
mothers is they hold on to their

45:17.000 --> 45:18.000
infants.

45:18.000 --> 45:19.000
These are data from the wild in

45:19.000 --> 45:20.000
Colombia.

45:20.000 --> 45:22.000
And what we see is that about

45:22.000 --> 45:23.000
90% of the time for week one and

45:23.000 --> 45:25.000
week two, first time mothers

45:25.000 --> 45:27.000
monopolized control of the baby

45:27.000 --> 45:28.000
and rarely let someone else take

45:28.000 --> 45:29.000
care of it.

45:29.000 --> 45:32.000
By contrast, experienced mothers

45:32.000 --> 45:33.000
who had had multiple

45:33.000 --> 45:35.000
pregnancies, spend about 50% of

45:35.000 --> 45:37.000
the time in the first week

45:37.000 --> 45:38.000
taking care of kids, but by the

45:38.000 --> 45:40.000
second week they're down to the

45:40.000 --> 45:41.000
20% that they're going to spend

45:41.000 --> 45:42.000
the rest of the time.

45:42.000 --> 45:44.000
So one of the things that

45:44.000 --> 45:45.000
becomes really important is if

45:45.000 --> 45:47.000
you're going to have other

45:47.000 --> 45:48.000
animals or other individuals in

45:48.000 --> 45:50.000
your family take care of

45:50.000 --> 45:52.000
infants, it's important for

45:52.000 --> 45:53.000
mothers to let go of the infant

45:53.000 --> 45:54.000
care and let someone else take

45:54.000 --> 45:56.000
over.

45:56.000 --> 45:57.000
And experienced mothers in

45:57.000 --> 45:59.000
tamarin families in the wild

45:59.000 --> 46:00.000
seem to know how to do this.

46:00.000 --> 46:02.000
First time mothers don't seem to

46:02.000 --> 46:03.000
have that skill.

46:03.000 --> 46:05.000
How do parents keep others from

46:05.000 --> 46:06.000
breeding?

46:06.000 --> 46:08.000
There's been a lot of work done

46:08.000 --> 46:10.000
on reproductive suppression in

46:10.000 --> 46:11.000
tamarins and I just want to

46:11.000 --> 46:13.000
touch on this very briefly.

46:13.000 --> 46:15.000
This is a study we did looking

46:15.000 --> 46:16.000
at 31 animals over the course of

46:16.000 --> 46:18.000
a couple years each because we

46:18.000 --> 46:20.000
weren't convinced that animals

46:20.000 --> 46:22.000
were totally reproductively

46:22.000 --> 46:23.000
suppressed.

46:23.000 --> 46:25.000
But every single daughter that

46:25.000 --> 46:27.000
we looked at never ever did we

46:27.000 --> 46:29.000
see any signs of ovulation while

46:29.000 --> 46:31.000
animals were living at home.

46:31.000 --> 46:33.000
And we wanted to see what the

46:33.000 --> 46:35.000
cues were for this so one study

46:35.000 --> 46:36.000
we did was to transfer mother's

46:36.000 --> 46:38.000
odors to daughter's cages after

46:38.000 --> 46:40.000
daughters have been moved to

46:40.000 --> 46:41.000
giving a new mate.

46:41.000 --> 46:43.000
And we found in every single

46:43.000 --> 46:44.000
case that we transferred

46:44.000 --> 46:46.000
mother's odors on a daily basis,

46:46.000 --> 46:47.000
none of those females ovulated

46:47.000 --> 46:49.000
while their mother's odors were

46:49.000 --> 46:50.000
being presented.

46:50.000 --> 46:52.000
So we find that mother's odors

46:52.000 --> 46:53.000
play an important role.

46:53.000 --> 46:54.000
But something else is also

46:54.000 --> 46:56.000
important.

46:56.000 --> 46:57.000
We can take females away from

46:57.000 --> 46:59.000
their mother but house them with

46:59.000 --> 47:00.000
a familiar male, their father or

47:00.000 --> 47:01.000
their brother, and we still

47:01.000 --> 47:03.000
don't get any ovulation

47:03.000 --> 47:04.000
occurring.

47:04.000 --> 47:06.000
And only when animals are either

47:06.000 --> 47:07.000
paired with a novel male or

47:07.000 --> 47:09.000
housed adjacent to a novel male

47:09.000 --> 47:11.000
do we find ovulation being

47:11.000 --> 47:12.000
released and occurring.

47:12.000 --> 47:14.000
So novel males play a really

47:14.000 --> 47:16.000
important role in terms of

47:16.000 --> 47:18.000
reproductive suppression as well

47:18.000 --> 47:19.000
as to signals and cues from the

47:19.000 --> 47:21.000
mother.

47:21.000 --> 47:23.000
Both of those are important and

47:23.000 --> 47:25.000
I think human families, I

47:25.000 --> 47:26.000
suspect a lot of mother/daughter

47:26.000 --> 47:27.000
conflict in human families might

47:27.000 --> 47:29.000
be alleviated if mothers could

47:29.000 --> 47:30.000
be more assured that their

47:30.000 --> 47:31.000
daughters were reproductively

47:31.000 --> 47:32.000
suppressed while they were going

47:32.000 --> 47:34.000
through their teen years.

47:34.000 --> 47:35.000
[LAUGHTER]

47:35.000 --> 47:37.000
And here we have animals

47:37.000 --> 47:38.000
that have very stable family

47:38.000 --> 47:39.000
relationships, and it's a

47:39.000 --> 47:41.000
nice way to keep others from

47:41.000 --> 47:42.000
competing with the mother for

47:42.000 --> 47:45.000
the breeding position.

47:45.000 --> 47:47.000
And finally, the last part of

47:47.000 --> 47:48.000
what I want to talk about is,

47:48.000 --> 47:50.000
does cooperative breeding lead

47:50.000 --> 47:51.000
to better social learning and

47:51.000 --> 47:53.000
cooperation with others?

47:53.000 --> 47:54.000
There's been a lot of studies in

47:54.000 --> 47:56.000
recent years but I'm going to

47:56.000 --> 47:57.000
just give you two examples of

47:57.000 --> 47:59.000
how tamarins, in this case, how

47:59.000 --> 48:01.000
tamarins rapidly learn about a

48:01.000 --> 48:03.000
novel task from watching others.

48:03.000 --> 48:04.000
And Liza Moscovice developed a

48:04.000 --> 48:06.000
special frame that we could hang

48:06.000 --> 48:08.000
inside a cage.

48:08.000 --> 48:09.000
There are five different targets

48:09.000 --> 48:12.000
here that can hide food.

48:12.000 --> 48:14.000
In this case, the food is behind

48:14.000 --> 48:16.000
the green door which is propped

48:16.000 --> 48:17.000
open and you can see a piece of

48:17.000 --> 48:19.000
food here.

48:19.000 --> 48:20.000
Each of these other containers

48:20.000 --> 48:22.000
has food behind it so that the

48:22.000 --> 48:23.000
odor is controlled.

48:23.000 --> 48:25.000
And what the animal has to do is

48:25.000 --> 48:26.000
to locate the unlocked

48:26.000 --> 48:27.000
container, and it has to learn a

48:27.000 --> 48:29.000
new motor task because animals

48:29.000 --> 48:31.000
have never before had to perch

48:31.000 --> 48:33.000
here and use their hand to move

48:33.000 --> 48:35.000
a door from one side to the

48:35.000 --> 48:36.000
other and reach in with the

48:36.000 --> 48:38.000
other hand to get the food.

48:38.000 --> 48:39.000
So learning a novel motor task,

48:39.000 --> 48:41.000
you also have to learn where the

48:41.000 --> 48:42.000
food is located.

48:42.000 --> 48:44.000
So we gave individual animals

48:44.000 --> 48:45.000
within a pair a chance to learn

48:45.000 --> 48:47.000
this task.

48:47.000 --> 48:48.000
And then after the task was

48:48.000 --> 48:49.000
well-learned, we tested them

48:49.000 --> 48:51.000
with their partner, and the

48:51.000 --> 48:52.000
really important information

48:52.000 --> 48:54.000
here is how quickly does the

48:54.000 --> 48:55.000
partner learn when its mate

48:55.000 --> 48:56.000
already knows how to solve the

48:56.000 --> 48:58.000
task.

48:58.000 --> 48:59.000
And what we found was that

48:59.000 --> 49:02.000
social learners, the partners

49:02.000 --> 49:03.000
were really interested in the

49:03.000 --> 49:04.000
apparatus, they followed very

49:04.000 --> 49:06.000
closely on the demonstrator and

49:06.000 --> 49:07.000
very quickly learned the correct

49:07.000 --> 49:09.000
site.

49:09.000 --> 49:10.000
When they got there, they also

49:10.000 --> 49:11.000
learned how to master this novel

49:11.000 --> 49:14.000
task of moving the door open.

49:14.000 --> 49:16.000
But when these animals came,

49:16.000 --> 49:18.000
this animal had already taken

49:18.000 --> 49:19.000
the food.

49:19.000 --> 49:21.000
So we have animals that have

49:21.000 --> 49:22.000
learned a new task, a novel

49:22.000 --> 49:24.000
motor skill, without ever

49:24.000 --> 49:25.000
getting reinforced for doing it

49:25.000 --> 49:27.000
but they're doing it in part

49:27.000 --> 49:29.000
because their partner has just

49:29.000 --> 49:30.000
done it in front of them.

49:30.000 --> 49:32.000
And if we look at how quickly

49:32.000 --> 49:34.000
they learn to get to a novel

49:34.000 --> 49:35.000
forage site, within eight trials

49:35.000 --> 49:38.000
all eight animals that were

49:38.000 --> 49:40.000
tested socially acquired the

49:40.000 --> 49:42.000
test within just eight session,

49:42.000 --> 49:44.000
eight chances to learn this.

49:44.000 --> 49:46.000
Individual learners took a lot

49:46.000 --> 49:47.000
longer.

49:47.000 --> 49:49.000
Only two of them learned a task

49:49.000 --> 49:51.000
within eight trials.

49:51.000 --> 49:53.000
And animals who were just

49:53.000 --> 49:55.000
allowed to interact socially

49:55.000 --> 49:56.000
with each other without anyone

49:56.000 --> 49:58.000
knowing what to do, not a single

49:58.000 --> 49:59.000
one of them solved this task

49:59.000 --> 50:01.000
within eight days of testing.

50:01.000 --> 50:03.000
So social learning occurred much

50:03.000 --> 50:05.000
faster than I've seen occur in

50:05.000 --> 50:07.000
any other chimpanzee study, and

50:07.000 --> 50:09.000
it occurred without any rewards.

50:09.000 --> 50:11.000
And when we tested these animals

50:11.000 --> 50:12.000
a year and a half later, they

50:12.000 --> 50:14.000
were still able to solve the

50:14.000 --> 50:15.000
problem right away.

50:15.000 --> 50:17.000
So they had a long-term memory

50:17.000 --> 50:19.000
for how to solve the task.

50:19.000 --> 50:20.000
So some other examples that

50:20.000 --> 50:22.000
we've done, we find more rapid

50:22.000 --> 50:23.000
reversal learning than any other

50:23.000 --> 50:24.000
species to date.

50:24.000 --> 50:26.000
We find that animals teach their

50:26.000 --> 50:27.000
young about what food to eat and

50:27.000 --> 50:29.000
how to eat.

50:29.000 --> 50:31.000
We find that adults will help

50:31.000 --> 50:32.000
their juvenile kids learn how to

50:32.000 --> 50:34.000
solve tasks.

50:34.000 --> 50:35.000
When they're presented with a

50:35.000 --> 50:37.000
novel and difficult task,

50:37.000 --> 50:38.000
parents will spend time helping

50:38.000 --> 50:40.000
them, but they don't help each

50:40.000 --> 50:41.000
other when they are adults.

50:41.000 --> 50:43.000
And we found no evidence of

50:43.000 --> 50:44.000
teaching in chimpanzees that's

50:44.000 --> 50:46.000
anywhere comparable to the types

50:46.000 --> 50:48.000
of scaffolding behavior and

50:48.000 --> 50:49.000
teaching that we find in

50:49.000 --> 50:51.000
tamarins.

50:51.000 --> 50:52.000
So again we find a clear

50:52.000 --> 50:54.000
difference between what tamarins

50:54.000 --> 50:55.000
are able to do and what

50:55.000 --> 50:56.000
chimpanzees do.

50:56.000 --> 50:58.000
This has led some

50:58.000 --> 50:59.000
anthropologists to start

50:59.000 --> 51:01.000
speculating on the idea that

51:01.000 --> 51:02.000
maybe cooperative breeding is an

51:02.000 --> 51:04.000
important type of social system

51:04.000 --> 51:05.000
that fosters teaching and social

51:05.000 --> 51:07.000
learning.

51:07.000 --> 51:08.000
And one theory has recently

51:08.000 --> 51:10.000
argued that we've learned, we as

51:10.000 --> 51:11.000
humans have acquired a lot of

51:11.000 --> 51:13.000
technical ability to learn about

51:13.000 --> 51:15.000
tasks from other animals like

51:15.000 --> 51:16.000
chimpanzees that have large

51:16.000 --> 51:18.000
brains and can learn individual

51:18.000 --> 51:21.000
tasks really quickly, but what

51:21.000 --> 51:23.000
makes us uniquely human is the

51:23.000 --> 51:25.000
ability to combine the learning

51:25.000 --> 51:27.000
types that chimpanzees do

51:27.000 --> 51:29.000
readily with the type of social

51:29.000 --> 51:30.000
learning and teaching behavior

51:30.000 --> 51:32.000
that tamarins show and that,

51:32.000 --> 51:33.000
therefore, the combination of

51:33.000 --> 51:35.000
these two sets of skills, the

51:35.000 --> 51:37.000
big brain of chimpanzees and the

51:37.000 --> 51:39.000
social environment of family

51:39.000 --> 51:41.000
living, might contribute to the

51:41.000 --> 51:43.000
complex cognition that we humans

51:43.000 --> 51:44.000
show.

51:44.000 --> 51:46.000
Tamarins naturally cooperate

51:46.000 --> 51:48.000
with each other.

51:48.000 --> 51:49.000
Here's a apparatus where there

51:49.000 --> 51:51.000
are two pieces of raisins and

51:51.000 --> 51:53.000
both animals have to pull these

51:53.000 --> 51:54.000
trays simultaneously from either

51:54.000 --> 51:55.000
end in order for anyone to get

51:55.000 --> 51:56.000
the food.

51:56.000 --> 51:58.000
And we find that they learn that

51:58.000 --> 51:59.000
spontaneously very, very

51:59.000 --> 52:00.000
quickly.

52:00.000 --> 52:01.000
We can also manipulate the

52:01.000 --> 52:02.000
apparatus.

52:02.000 --> 52:04.000
This is showing a diagram, and

52:04.000 --> 52:05.000
there are two holes that can be

52:05.000 --> 52:07.000
lined up.

52:07.000 --> 52:08.000
We can either have two pieces of

52:08.000 --> 52:10.000
food, one on either side, or we

52:10.000 --> 52:11.000
can have a piece of food so that

52:11.000 --> 52:13.000
only one animal gets rewarded

52:13.000 --> 52:14.000
but both animals still have to

52:14.000 --> 52:16.000
pull for the reward to be

52:16.000 --> 52:17.000
obtained.

52:17.000 --> 52:19.000
We can have a single reward in

52:19.000 --> 52:20.000
the middle or we can place the

52:20.000 --> 52:22.000
reward over here by one animal

52:22.000 --> 52:25.000
but we have this trough that

52:25.000 --> 52:27.000
lets the food reward roll down

52:27.000 --> 52:28.000
and go to the animal on the

52:28.000 --> 52:30.000
other side of the cage.

52:30.000 --> 52:32.000
One of the interesting questions

52:32.000 --> 52:34.000
is, how well do animals solve

52:34.000 --> 52:35.000
these things as a function of

52:35.000 --> 52:38.000
whether they're always getting

52:38.000 --> 52:39.000
reward or not?

52:39.000 --> 52:41.000
So here we see where both

52:41.000 --> 52:42.000
animals are getting rewarded the

52:42.000 --> 52:44.000
solution rate is about 98% of

52:44.000 --> 52:45.000
the time.

52:45.000 --> 52:46.000
Even when there's reciprocity,

52:46.000 --> 52:48.000
when I get the food today and I

52:48.000 --> 52:50.000
get all the pieces of food but

52:50.000 --> 52:51.000
you get it tomorrow, there's

52:51.000 --> 52:53.000
still a very high level of

52:53.000 --> 52:54.000
cooperation.

52:54.000 --> 52:56.000
Both animals still continue pull

52:56.000 --> 52:57.000
at a very high rate.

52:57.000 --> 52:59.000
When the food is available and

52:59.000 --> 53:00.000
we both have to scramble to get

53:00.000 --> 53:02.000
it, still is pulled at a high

53:02.000 --> 53:03.000
rate.

53:03.000 --> 53:04.000
And even when the reward is

53:04.000 --> 53:06.000
being delivered to the animal on

53:06.000 --> 53:07.000
the opposite side of the

53:07.000 --> 53:08.000
apparatus, the animals still

53:08.000 --> 53:10.000
continue to perform about 50% of

53:10.000 --> 53:11.000
the time.

53:11.000 --> 53:13.000
And I want to contrast this with

53:13.000 --> 53:14.000
work on capuchin monkeys which

53:14.000 --> 53:16.000
are oftentimes talked about as a

53:16.000 --> 53:19.000
model smart monkey.

53:19.000 --> 53:21.000
And you can see that when

53:21.000 --> 53:23.000
someone else did the same

53:23.000 --> 53:24.000
parallel types of tests with

53:24.000 --> 53:26.000
capuchin monkeys, they solved

53:26.000 --> 53:28.000
the mutual task much less often

53:28.000 --> 53:30.000
and when reciprocity was

53:30.000 --> 53:32.000
involved, they showed only half

53:32.000 --> 53:33.000
as many correct solutions as

53:33.000 --> 53:35.000
tamarins do.

53:35.000 --> 53:37.000
So again we have mutualism and

53:37.000 --> 53:39.000
reciprocal reward with success

53:39.000 --> 53:41.000
rates much higher for tamarins

53:41.000 --> 53:42.000
than for capuchins and

53:42.000 --> 53:44.000
chimpanzees tested in similar

53:44.000 --> 53:45.000
ways.

53:45.000 --> 53:47.000
So to summarize and finish up,

53:47.000 --> 53:49.000
cotton-top tamarins are highly

53:49.000 --> 53:50.000
endangered species, very

53:50.000 --> 53:52.000
vulnerable to extinction in the

53:52.000 --> 53:53.000
wild.

53:53.000 --> 53:54.000
We've been able to create a

53:54.000 --> 53:56.000
successful captive breeding

53:56.000 --> 53:57.000
program starting with 11 monkeys

53:57.000 --> 53:59.000
30 years ago, and we've donated

53:59.000 --> 54:01.000
close to 300 monkeys to other

54:01.000 --> 54:02.000
places as a result of our

54:02.000 --> 54:04.000
success in captive breeding.

54:04.000 --> 54:07.000
We think part of our success is

54:07.000 --> 54:08.000
due to housing monkeys as

54:08.000 --> 54:10.000
families in large naturalistic

54:10.000 --> 54:12.000
cages and keeping offspring at

54:12.000 --> 54:14.000
home long enough to be able to

54:14.000 --> 54:15.000
learn parenting skills before

54:15.000 --> 54:17.000
they go off and try to parent on

54:17.000 --> 54:18.000
their own.

54:18.000 --> 54:20.000
And as I've tried to indicate,

54:20.000 --> 54:21.000
lots of other skills have to be

54:21.000 --> 54:22.000
learned as well.

54:22.000 --> 54:24.000
When we started using

54:24.000 --> 54:25.000
noninvasive methods we met with

54:25.000 --> 54:26.000
a great deal of skepticism

54:26.000 --> 54:28.000
because the traditional way of

54:28.000 --> 54:29.000
doing research was to use more

54:29.000 --> 54:31.000
invasive ways.

54:31.000 --> 54:34.000
Thanks to Toni Ziegler, we've

54:34.000 --> 54:36.000
within able to pioneer new

54:36.000 --> 54:38.000
noninvasive methods for studying

54:38.000 --> 54:39.000
hormones and expand them to a

54:39.000 --> 54:41.000
whole variety of species, and I

54:41.000 --> 54:43.000
think these methods are now the

54:43.000 --> 54:45.000
gold standard for field research

54:45.000 --> 54:46.000
with nonhuman primates and lots

54:46.000 --> 54:48.000
of other animals as well.

54:48.000 --> 54:50.000
So we have a very successful

54:50.000 --> 54:53.000
selling or extension of the work

54:53.000 --> 54:56.000
that began with tamarins to

54:56.000 --> 54:58.000
affect lots of wild populations

54:58.000 --> 55:00.000
as well.

55:00.000 --> 55:01.000
Other noninvasive methods that

55:01.000 --> 55:03.000
we developed have minimized

55:03.000 --> 55:04.000
handling of animals and allowed

55:04.000 --> 55:06.000
us to test animals in their home

55:06.000 --> 55:07.000
cages.

55:07.000 --> 55:08.000
A very important point is that

55:08.000 --> 55:10.000
we treated tamarins as our

55:10.000 --> 55:11.000
research partners.

55:11.000 --> 55:12.000
They're not subjects, they're

55:12.000 --> 55:13.000
our partners in research, and I

55:13.000 --> 55:15.000
think it's a very important

55:15.000 --> 55:17.000
mind set to have when you're

55:17.000 --> 55:18.000
working with nonhuman primates

55:18.000 --> 55:19.000
is to think of them as your

55:19.000 --> 55:21.000
research partners.

55:21.000 --> 55:22.000
Without their cooperation and

55:22.000 --> 55:24.000
collaboration we're not going to

55:24.000 --> 55:25.000
get very good research data, nor

55:25.000 --> 55:27.000
are we going to be as successful

55:27.000 --> 55:28.000
as we'd like to be in terms of

55:28.000 --> 55:30.000
maintaining them and breeding

55:30.000 --> 55:32.000
them into the future.

55:32.000 --> 55:33.000
Noninvasive hormone sampling

55:33.000 --> 55:35.000
allowed us to monitor

55:35.000 --> 55:36.000
reproduction but also allowed us

55:36.000 --> 55:37.000
to ask about hormonal changes

55:37.000 --> 55:39.000
leading fathers to parenting and

55:39.000 --> 55:40.000
why daughters do not ovulate.

55:40.000 --> 55:42.000
Results suggest new ways for

55:42.000 --> 55:43.000
thinking about increasing

55:43.000 --> 55:45.000
involvement by human fathers and

55:45.000 --> 55:47.000
care taking and has led very

55:47.000 --> 55:49.000
recently to new studies looking

55:49.000 --> 55:51.000
at hormone changes in fathers

55:51.000 --> 55:53.000
across pregnancy.

55:53.000 --> 55:55.000
Also helps us stress the role of

55:55.000 --> 55:57.000
experience.

55:57.000 --> 55:58.000
We require drivers training but

55:58.000 --> 56:00.000
not parent training, as I said

56:00.000 --> 56:01.000
earlier.

56:01.000 --> 56:03.000
And mothers have to learn to let

56:03.000 --> 56:04.000
go of infants and let others

56:04.000 --> 56:06.000
take care of them.

56:06.000 --> 56:07.000
Finally, tamarins show rapid

56:07.000 --> 56:09.000
social learning, teaching

56:09.000 --> 56:10.000
behavior, and cooperation that's

56:10.000 --> 56:12.000
not seen in most other nonhuman

56:12.000 --> 56:13.000
primates, but it's really

56:13.000 --> 56:15.000
similar to skills we see in

56:15.000 --> 56:16.000
humans.

56:16.000 --> 56:18.000
So does cooperative breeding

56:18.000 --> 56:19.000
foster these skills, and, in

56:19.000 --> 56:20.000
addition to the cognitive skills

56:20.000 --> 56:21.000
of apes, is this what leads us

56:21.000 --> 56:22.000
to make humans unique.

56:22.000 --> 56:24.000
Tamarins are not little human

56:24.000 --> 56:26.000
beings but humane, noninvasive

56:26.000 --> 56:27.000
research can not only help

56:27.000 --> 56:29.000
preserve the tamarins on into

56:29.000 --> 56:30.000
the future but help us gain

56:30.000 --> 56:32.000
insights into human behavior.

56:32.000 --> 56:34.000
Before I close, I want to

56:34.000 --> 56:35.000
acknowledge that I've been

56:35.000 --> 56:37.000
supported and blessed with a

56:37.000 --> 56:39.000
large team of really wonderful

56:39.000 --> 56:40.000
collaborators over the years.

56:40.000 --> 56:42.000
And this is just a few of them,

56:42.000 --> 56:44.000
people who've been involved in

56:44.000 --> 56:45.000
the work that I talked about

56:45.000 --> 56:47.000
tonight, but I've been really

56:47.000 --> 56:49.000
delighted to have such a large

56:49.000 --> 56:51.000
group of people who are all

56:51.000 --> 56:52.000
committed to the well-being and

56:52.000 --> 56:54.000
safe care and careful care of

56:54.000 --> 56:56.000
these animals where always the

56:56.000 --> 56:58.000
first priority was to maintain

56:58.000 --> 56:59.000
the animal's health and

56:59.000 --> 57:00.000
well-being as our first

57:00.000 --> 57:02.000
priority.

57:02.000 --> 57:03.000
I also want to acknowledge my

57:03.000 --> 57:05.000
wife, Ann Lindsey, who is a good

57:05.000 --> 57:07.000
critic, a very good critic, and

57:07.000 --> 57:10.000
helped me change a lot of

57:10.000 --> 57:12.000
things.

57:12.000 --> 57:13.000
And also, for those of you

57:13.000 --> 57:14.000
interested in learning more

57:14.000 --> 57:15.000
about cotton-top conservation,

57:15.000 --> 57:17.000
I want to refer you to a really

57:17.000 --> 57:18.000
important website that Anne

57:18.000 --> 57:19.000
Savage has developed,

57:19.000 --> 57:21.000
ProyectoTiti.com.

57:21.000 --> 57:23.000
It's a good way to learn a lot

57:23.000 --> 57:24.000
about the status of tamarins in

57:24.000 --> 57:25.000
the wild and learn a lot more

57:25.000 --> 57:26.000
about their behavior, and also,

57:26.000 --> 57:27.000
if you would like to donate for

57:27.000 --> 57:29.000
cotton-top tamarin conservation,

57:29.000 --> 57:31.000
it's a very good place to go and

57:31.000 --> 57:33.000
be able to make donations.

57:33.000 --> 57:34.000
And I'll stop here and see if

57:34.000 --> 57:35.000
anyone has any questions.

57:35.000 --> 57:37.000
Thank you very much.

57:37.000 --> 57:41.000
[APPLAUSE]