WEBVTT

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- Good evening!

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My name's Paul Robbins,
I'm the director of

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the Nelson Institute for
Environmental Studies

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here at the UW-Madison,

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and it is an enormous
honor to have been invited

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to introduce tonight's speaker.

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Jed Purdy wrote very recently

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that this country,
the United States,

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is "a country whose
environmental politics

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"has always been Anthropocene,

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"though often not
self-consciously so."

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And that, but that's an
interesting thing to say.

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It's interesting to say
for at least three reasons,

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which I think captures
some of what's special

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about Jed Purdy.

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First, it's extremely,

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it's a counterintuitive
notion that the Anthropocene,

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that name that we would
give to a geologic era

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formed by human beings,
which calls upon us

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for all of its novelty
and all of its difference

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and how different everything is,

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the idea that it
would be driven back

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into the violent beginnings
of American history

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is counterintuitive,
and it says something

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very complicated in an
extremely accessible way.

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This is an accessible writer.

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Two, it would take a
pretty formidable reading

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and understanding of
American history to prove it.

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(audience laughs)
It would.

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That history would have
to hinge on a lot of legal

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and policy history.

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You'd have to know
a lot about the law,

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not just about American
history, to get that right.

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It would have to be rigorous,

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accessible and rigorous.

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And it's also an
observation, I think,

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that opens doors
for new politics

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because the
Anthropocene politics

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actually aren't all that new,

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like it actually gives us
space of possibilities,

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like there's something we can
do instead of gnash our teeth,

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which makes it poignant,
accessible, rigorous,

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poignant.

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Jedediah Purdy is the Robinson
O. Everett Professor of Law

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at the Duke University
School of Law.

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He holds a J.D. from
the Yale Law School

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and a B.A. summa cum laude
from Harvard College.

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He's author of six books,

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the first of which
was written in 1999,

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which must've been like
the first year of your J.D.

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(audience laughs)

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I haven't read them,
except this one.

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They got great titles,
including a 2009 Knopf title

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"A Tolerable Anarchy."

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That title alone is sending
me home for some reading.

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His 2015 book is
the one I hold here,

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"After Nature: Environmental
Law, Politics, and the Ethics

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of the Anthropocene," and I
recommend it to everyone.

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He has countless chapters,
reviews, and essays,

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especially in
rigorous law journals,

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the Harvard Law Review,
Columbia Law Review.

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He's taught countless courses

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at Duke University
and elsewhere,

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and if I was only allowed
to take three of them,

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they would be Past and Future
of Capitalist Democracy,

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- That's two semesters.
(audience laughs)

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- Well, I'd fail the
first semester and

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then I'd have an excuse

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to take The Conversation
of Law and History

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and then his class on The
Occupy Movement in 2012.

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There's a lot here that I
don't have to tell you about.

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I think, well, some
of the other things

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that stand out are his
popular essays and reviews.

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He has written for The New
Yorker, The Daily Beast,

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The Huffington Post, accessibly.

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And finally, he's got a
lot of media appearances,

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Morning Edition
and The Connection

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and Talk of the Nation,
you know, lefty radio,

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but also a lot of other outlets
that I think we'd understand

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to be extremely mainstream

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and an important voice

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for these complicated issues
to the broader public.

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I'll close by reading
from the conclusion

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of this terrific
book, "After Nature,"

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to speak to this
question of poignancy

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because he suggests that
writing this legal history,

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of a legal American
environmental history,
he suggests that

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"people are best able
to change their ways

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"when they find two
things at once in nature,

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"something to fear and
also something to love."

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Now, "Either impulse," he
says, "can stay the human hand,

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"but the first stops it just
short of being burnt or broken.

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"The second keeps
the hand poised,

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"extended in greeting
or in offer of peace.

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"This gesture is the
beginning of collaboration,

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"among people but
also beyond us,

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"in building our new home."

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And that home, I take
it, is the Anthropocene,

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and I can't really think
of a better architect.

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Thank you and welcome Jed Purdy.

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(audience applauds)
(faint speaking)

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- Wow, thanks for that really,
really generous introduction.

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Thank you to the people
who brought me here,

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and thank you to
all of you who are,

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who can't hear me.

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(audience laughs)

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I think we need a little
more vocals in the mic maybe.

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So it's obviously a,
can you hear me now?

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- No.
- No, all right.

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Oh, wait!

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There's a button.

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(audience laughs)

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There we are.

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So I really appreciate
the generous introduction.

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I also really appreciate
the work people have done

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to bring me here and all of
you coming out on what feels,

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from the perspective
of North Carolina,

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like a cold winter evening.
(audience laughs)

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It's also really
great to be asked

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and exciting to be asked
to speak at Wisconsin.

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Although I come to
you from a law school,

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the kind of thinking
that I try to do,

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in this book and elsewhere,
would be much harder even

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to imagine without the
work of Bill Cronon,

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whom I've admired for years

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and whom it's
touching to see here.

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And behind him, people
like Willard Hurst

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and Charles Van Hise.

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These names may not all be
meaningful to all of you,

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but they are people who've
thought about the interplay

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of landscape and law, humanity
and the non-human world

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in Wisconsin and at Wisconsin
for a very long time.

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So, I want to talk about

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what we do when we
look at a landscape,

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though to speak of a part
of the world as a landscape

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is to consider it
in a specific way,

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as a terrain that's viewed,

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that's seen and
organized by the eye,

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even, especially,

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the mind's eye.

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A landscape is a place

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organized by the meanings
it has for people,

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and I'm going to talk
about some of the ways

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that our meanings form
and organize landscapes.

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The first,

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we may understand

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a landscape as an origin.

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Famously,

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nature,

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nation,

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native,

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all have the same root,

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birth, the place where life
arises and renews itself.

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And nature, in this
sense, means the world,

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viewed in light of its
life-making powers,

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the origin of each of us and
every other living thing,

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and, ultimately,
of every thought

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that we could have about
it or about one another.

07:31.733 --> 07:33.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
And by the same token,

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nature is linked to nationalism,

07:36.700 --> 07:38.133 align:left position:35%,start line:5% size:55%
to nativism,

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and other doctrines that have
been demanding our attention.

07:42.700 --> 07:44.766 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
I want to start
at this etymology,

07:44.866 --> 07:48.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
this common root of words that
name the very idea of roots,

07:49.000 --> 07:52.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
because it's especially
vexed and vexing.

07:52.533 --> 07:57.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
The talking of origins
is always partly fictional.

07:57.133 --> 08:00.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
In a sense, because
we're born of nature,

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we come from the whole world.

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In a sense, because we're born,

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we're native to just
one other person.

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A nation,

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with the same root,

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is famously an
imagined community,

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a story about an us and a them,

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a kind of story that's
done a lot of harm

08:20.600 --> 08:23.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
and is not finished doing harm.

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So saying these things about
how origins are fictional

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and nations, like
nature, are constructed

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is easy in my generation
of the academic humanities.

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You might even say that
it comes naturally,

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that it's second
nature to say it.

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But I think there's something
else also worth naming,

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in the idea that a
landscape of origin,

08:45.600 --> 08:47.800 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
of your birth,
where you're native,

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is also your nature,
who and how you are.

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There's an image that people
come to again and again

08:55.700 --> 08:58.700 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
of being born from
their terrain.

08:58.800 --> 09:01.166 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5%
A few examples,

09:01.266 --> 09:04.233 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
E.P. Thompson's great
historical study,

09:04.333 --> 09:07.100 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
"The Making of the
English Working Class,"

09:07.200 --> 09:08.933 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75%
is very nearly the antithesis

09:09.033 --> 09:11.600 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
of picturesque
landscape writing.

09:11.700 --> 09:14.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
And nevertheless, the book has

09:14.100 --> 09:17.800 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
a steady rhythm of
place-names and terrain

09:17.900 --> 09:20.366 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
that infuses, at least to me,

09:20.466 --> 09:24.900 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
an earthborn quality into
the human actions he details,

09:25.000 --> 09:27.566 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
and once he comes
out and says it.

09:27.666 --> 09:29.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
Writing of Dan Taylor,

09:29.333 --> 09:32.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
"a Yorkshire collier,"
a coal miner,

09:32.600 --> 09:35.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
"who had worked in the
pit from the age of five,

09:35.166 --> 09:37.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
"who had been converted
by the Methodists,"

09:37.833 --> 09:42.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
who, still quoting Thompson,
"built his own meeting-house,

09:42.333 --> 09:45.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
"digging the stone out of
the moors above Hebden Bridge

09:46.066 --> 09:50.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5%
"and carrying on his own back"

09:50.500 --> 09:52.200 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5%
and went on to walk

09:52.300 --> 09:54.766 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5%
25,000 miles across England

09:54.866 --> 09:58.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
to preach 20,000 sermons
of low church radicalism.

09:58.600 --> 10:00.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
And Thompson concludes,

10:00.533 --> 10:02.933 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
"he came from neither
the Particular

10:03.033 --> 10:05.933 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
"nor the General
Baptist Societies,

10:06.033 --> 10:09.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
"spiritually, perhaps, he came
from Bunyan's inheritance,"

10:09.800 --> 10:12.000 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
that is Pilgrim's Progress,

10:12.100 --> 10:14.666 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
but, still quoting,
"but literally

10:14.766 --> 10:17.533 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
"he just came out
of the ground."

10:19.000 --> 10:22.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
And here, is Wendell Berry,
the Kentucky agrarian writer,

10:22.966 --> 10:26.233 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
in an essay from the 1960s
called "A Native Hill,"

10:26.333 --> 10:27.700 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60%
that word again.

10:27.800 --> 10:29.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5%
Berry writes of a place

10:29.366 --> 10:32.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
"where his face is
mirrored in the ground."

10:32.100 --> 10:35.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
He imagines his own death
and decay on his native hill

10:35.366 --> 10:38.900 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5%
and concludes,
"When I move to go,

10:39.000 --> 10:42.366 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
"it is as if I rise
up out of the world."

10:43.900 --> 10:46.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
I could multiply examples,

10:46.300 --> 10:47.900 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
but I think these will do enough

10:48.000 --> 10:50.733 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
to get at the thought or
feeling that I'm after here.

10:50.833 --> 10:52.566 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
I'll come back to it.

10:54.266 --> 10:57.100 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
Second, when they
look at a landscape

10:57.200 --> 10:59.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
as a record of wounds,

10:59.633 --> 11:03.866 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
a landscape is also,
is always partly

11:03.966 --> 11:07.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
a place that is held in
memory in a certain way.

11:07.833 --> 11:11.100 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
The Polish-Lithuanian
poet Czeslaw Milosz wrote,

11:11.200 --> 11:13.733 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
"It's possible that
there is no memory

11:13.833 --> 11:15.933 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
but the memory of wounds."

11:16.033 --> 11:17.700 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
And it's surely
true that the way

11:17.800 --> 11:20.833 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
a landscape memorializes us,

11:20.933 --> 11:23.100 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
how it holds our memory,

11:23.200 --> 11:25.700 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
is largely in the harm we do

11:25.800 --> 11:29.133 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
in our use and habitation of it.

11:29.233 --> 11:31.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
In the passage where Wendell
Berry imagines rising

11:32.000 --> 11:34.333 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60%
from the hill of
his native land,

11:34.433 --> 11:38.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
he also reflects that his
path is several feet below

11:39.033 --> 11:41.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
where he would once have
walked and where he would walk

11:41.966 --> 11:45.233 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
today if his ancestors had
not cut the land in ways

11:45.333 --> 11:48.433 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75%
that cost it all its topsoil.

11:48.533 --> 11:53.833 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
The Appalachian
hills where I grew up

11:53.933 --> 11:56.233 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
are much steeper than his.

11:56.333 --> 11:58.766 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
They're a beautiful
place of wreckage.

11:58.866 --> 12:01.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
Mature red oaks collapse
with their roots out

12:01.900 --> 12:04.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70%
because the soil is thin.

12:04.266 --> 12:06.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5%
Gullies slash the hillsides

12:06.400 --> 12:09.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
where people farmed sheep
during World War One,

12:09.366 --> 12:12.366 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
answering a lucrative demand
for wool to make uniforms,

12:12.466 --> 12:16.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
which was a very rare chance
to turn that land into money.

12:17.800 --> 12:19.800 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5%
The streams are
sluggish and muddy

12:19.900 --> 12:22.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
because all the topsoil
has run through them

12:22.166 --> 12:25.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
on the way to the Ohio
and Mississippi Rivers.

12:25.600 --> 12:28.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
And that is nothing compared

12:28.166 --> 12:30.200 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
with the condition
of the coalfields,

12:30.300 --> 12:31.800 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
just an hour's drive south,

12:31.900 --> 12:35.900 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
and less if you know
exactly where you're going.

12:36.000 --> 12:37.766 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60%
You may know some
of the basic facts

12:37.866 --> 12:40.500 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60%
about mountaintop
removal strip-mining,

12:40.600 --> 12:44.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
which combines dynamite
to blast mountains apart

12:44.200 --> 12:47.400 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
with earth-moving equipment
that can pick up 130 tons

12:47.500 --> 12:49.566 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65%
of rubble at a bite.

12:49.666 --> 12:52.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
You may know that the
blasting lowers ridges

12:52.366 --> 12:55.400 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
and mountaintops by
as much as 600 feet

12:55.500 --> 12:58.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
in a region where that is
about the usual clearance

12:58.233 --> 13:00.433 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
between valley and ridge.

13:00.533 --> 13:04.000 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
You may have heard that 2,000

13:04.100 --> 13:06.800 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
miles of headwater
streams have been buried

13:06.900 --> 13:09.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
under hundreds of feet
of the resulting rubble

13:09.733 --> 13:14.233 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
and that that 2,000 miles is
a very conservative estimate,

13:14.333 --> 13:16.933 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
that 500 individual mountains
have been destroyed,

13:17.033 --> 13:19.900 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
and that 1.4 million
acres of native forest

13:20.000 --> 13:22.400 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
have been cleared
in the process.

13:22.500 --> 13:24.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
Where mining has been,

13:24.433 --> 13:26.766 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
the terrain is now
something utterly different

13:26.866 --> 13:28.700 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
from what it used to be.

13:28.800 --> 13:32.133 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
A terrain dominated by steep
hillsides has been replaced

13:32.233 --> 13:36.566 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
by a mix of plateaus
with remnant or
reconstructed hillsides

13:36.666 --> 13:40.633 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
that are shorter and
blunter than before mining.

13:40.733 --> 13:43.300 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
The most common
pre-mining landform there

13:43.400 --> 13:46.000 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
was a slope with a
pitch of 28 degrees,

13:46.100 --> 13:48.033 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
about as steep as
the upper segments

13:48.133 --> 13:49.866 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
of the cables of
the Brooklyn Bridge

13:49.966 --> 13:52.566 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
or similar bridges
from the same period.

13:52.666 --> 13:55.833 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
And today, the most
common is a plain

13:55.933 --> 14:00.166 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
with a slope of two degrees,
that is, level but uneven.

14:01.800 --> 14:04.133 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
Mining has filled
a steep terrain

14:04.233 --> 14:07.733 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
with pockets of
nearly flat ground.

14:07.833 --> 14:11.600 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
And what does this
terrain show about us?

14:11.700 --> 14:13.866 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
Henry Thoreau wrote
about wild places,

14:13.966 --> 14:15.733 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
that we go there, quote,

14:15.833 --> 14:19.033 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
"to see our serenity
reflected in them."

14:19.133 --> 14:23.800 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
Continuing, "when we are not
serene, we go not to them."

14:23.900 --> 14:27.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
He was talking about the period
when Boston was in turmoil

14:27.200 --> 14:30.566 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
over the return of an
enslaved man to the South

14:30.666 --> 14:33.633 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
under the Fugitive Slave Act.

14:33.733 --> 14:36.600 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
But what about when
landscapes show back to us

14:36.700 --> 14:40.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
a breaking of the land
on a geological scale?

14:40.633 --> 14:43.233 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
What we find there is
ecological derangement.

14:43.333 --> 14:46.900 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
And what can we say
that it reflects of us?

14:48.500 --> 14:51.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
It's partly because this
question is unpleasant

14:51.800 --> 14:55.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
that a third way of viewing
landscapes has been so appealing

14:55.400 --> 14:56.900 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5%
to many Americans.

14:57.966 --> 15:00.433 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70%
This is a painterly view

15:00.533 --> 15:04.900 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
of landscapes as instances
of aesthetic ideals.

15:05.000 --> 15:06.200 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65%
Viewed in this light,

15:06.300 --> 15:09.333 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
we may catalog the
qualities of landscapes

15:09.433 --> 15:11.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
in the way that Frederick
Law Olmsted did those

15:11.866 --> 15:14.666 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
of Yosemite Valley, which,
he wrote in the 1860s,

15:14.766 --> 15:16.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5%
combined the following,

15:17.066 --> 15:18.200 align:left position:42.5%,start line:89% size:47.5%
beauty,

15:18.300 --> 15:21.766 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
the look of a welcoming,
regular, gentle world

15:21.866 --> 15:24.166 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75%
where you could feel at home,

15:24.266 --> 15:25.666 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5%
and sublimity,

15:25.766 --> 15:28.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
the wild, strange, even
frightening extremity

15:29.033 --> 15:30.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
of a world that was not made

15:30.666 --> 15:33.100 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
for your comfort
or safety at all,

15:33.200 --> 15:35.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
that was vastly bigger
than your powers

15:35.933 --> 15:39.100 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
and maybe even bigger
than your imagination.

15:39.200 --> 15:42.066 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
These aesthetic principles
were also psychological,

15:42.166 --> 15:44.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5%
even spiritual principles.

15:44.666 --> 15:46.966 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5%
They tuned your
mind a certain way,

15:47.066 --> 15:49.033 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65%
toward peace and calm

15:49.133 --> 15:51.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
or toward inspiration
and wonder.

15:53.066 --> 15:57.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
If this is a painterly
ideal, what's the brush?

15:57.666 --> 15:59.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
Whoever made the world,
whatever made the world,

15:59.900 --> 16:01.466 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70%
of course, is one answer,

16:01.566 --> 16:03.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5%
but another answer, also true,

16:03.833 --> 16:07.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
is the law that picks out
these places as special

16:07.500 --> 16:09.666 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60%
and preserves and
manages them according

16:09.766 --> 16:12.266 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70%
to aesthetic principles.

16:12.366 --> 16:15.833 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
In national parks, monuments,
and wilderness areas,

16:15.933 --> 16:18.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
the law has picked out
hundreds of millions

16:18.466 --> 16:22.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
of acres of land as the
exemplary American nature,

16:22.866 --> 16:25.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
the places where what's
best in the world

16:26.066 --> 16:30.233 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
reflects what's best in us,
and the other way around.

16:31.733 --> 16:33.966 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
In what may be the
most widely read

16:34.066 --> 16:36.866 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
of all his amazing
and invaluable work,

16:36.966 --> 16:39.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
Bill Cronon has taught
now more than a generation

16:39.533 --> 16:41.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70%
of scholars and students

16:41.200 --> 16:45.100 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
that the ideal of the
exemplary, nearly sacred place

16:45.200 --> 16:49.666 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
is connected with the
sacrifice of the fallen place.

16:49.766 --> 16:53.233 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
In prizing what we prize,
we also give ourselves license

16:53.333 --> 16:56.133 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
to neglect or wreck
what we do not

16:56.233 --> 16:58.900 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
so that more than
atmospheric carbon levels

16:59.000 --> 17:02.166 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
connect Yosemite
with the coalfields.

17:04.200 --> 17:07.600 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
Parks and wilderness
areas suggest a connection

17:07.700 --> 17:10.466 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
between the more abstract
and literary ideas

17:10.566 --> 17:13.366 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
about the nature of nature

17:13.466 --> 17:15.966 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
and why it matters
to human beings,

17:16.066 --> 17:20.066 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
and the most material
facts about the world,

17:20.166 --> 17:22.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
the landscapes that compose it.

17:23.000 --> 17:26.300 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
The link between the two,
which completes the circuit,

17:26.400 --> 17:29.166 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
is often the law.

17:29.266 --> 17:31.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
The circuit that law completes

17:31.666 --> 17:33.933 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
is very clear when we're looking

17:34.033 --> 17:38.100 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
at legislation as a kind
of landscape architecture,

17:38.200 --> 17:41.366 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
rather like the aristocratic
gardens of England and France,

17:41.466 --> 17:45.166 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
except that, as Frederick
Law Olmsted emphasized,

17:45.266 --> 17:50.466 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
Olmsted, again, in an
1864 report on Yosemite,

17:50.566 --> 17:53.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
recommending its adoption as
a state park in California,

17:53.833 --> 17:56.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
here they should be thought
of as parks for citizens,

17:56.400 --> 17:59.100 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75%
not for aristocratic owners,

17:59.200 --> 18:00.833 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
and for that reason
they must be shaped

18:00.933 --> 18:05.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
by a sovereign's power
rather than a proprietor's.

18:05.500 --> 18:09.066 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
But just as law can perform
landscape architecture

18:09.166 --> 18:14.933 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
when it has a very clear,
painterly template,

18:15.033 --> 18:18.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
in the same way it can
shape other landscapes

18:18.200 --> 18:21.466 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
in line with other
ways of seeing.

18:21.566 --> 18:25.466 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
So, for example, we might see
a landscape in a fourth way,

18:25.566 --> 18:27.633 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60%
as a stockpile of
resources to use

18:27.733 --> 18:30.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75%
for our utilitarian purposes.

18:30.366 --> 18:32.166 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75%
And this is the way of seeing

18:32.266 --> 18:35.466 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
that the U.S. Forest Service
was created to implement

18:35.566 --> 18:37.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5%
in the almost 200 million acres

18:37.500 --> 18:40.200 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
of national forests
that it manages,

18:40.300 --> 18:44.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
an area almost the size
of five Wisconsins.

18:44.133 --> 18:47.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
This idea was very important
to utilitarian reformers

18:47.366 --> 18:50.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
in the late 19th and
early 20th centuries.

18:50.500 --> 18:53.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
It was connected with ideas
of the American nation

18:53.533 --> 18:56.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
and the American state,

18:56.200 --> 19:01.066 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
and the national forests
dedicate terrain to the idea.

19:01.166 --> 19:04.766 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
They make it real.
They make it as real as dirt.

19:05.766 --> 19:07.866 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
Or you might see a landscape

19:07.966 --> 19:11.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
as ratifying a national
mission and identity.

19:11.933 --> 19:14.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
The idea was widespread
in the early republic

19:14.633 --> 19:17.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5%
that the world, by its nature,

19:17.566 --> 19:20.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
belonged to the people
who could make it bloom,

19:20.366 --> 19:23.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
and blooming meant being
economically productive,

19:23.133 --> 19:25.233 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
according to the paradigm
of the agriculture

19:25.333 --> 19:28.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
and the commodity markets
of northern Europe.

19:28.666 --> 19:31.433 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
People who settled,
timbered, and planted land

19:31.533 --> 19:33.300 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
could become its owners.

19:33.400 --> 19:37.400 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
Those who merely hunted or
lived transient lands there

19:37.500 --> 19:39.366 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
were not owners.

19:39.466 --> 19:43.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
They passed over it like deer,
the lawyers of the time said,

19:43.133 --> 19:45.100 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
or like ships at sea.

19:46.300 --> 19:51.333 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
All of this doctrine had the
convenient effect of showing,

19:51.433 --> 19:53.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
to the satisfaction
of the demonstrators,

19:53.266 --> 19:55.166 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
that Native Americans
had never become,

19:55.266 --> 19:59.766 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
legally or morally speaking,
rooted in the place.

19:59.866 --> 20:02.233 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
Only Europeans did that.

20:02.333 --> 20:03.733 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
John Marshall,

20:03.833 --> 20:06.000 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
the second chief justice
of the U.S. Supreme Court,

20:06.100 --> 20:09.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
explained in one of the more
candid treatments of this issue

20:09.533 --> 20:11.933 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
that although the European
claim to North America

20:12.033 --> 20:14.833 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
offended one's sense
of natural justice,

20:14.933 --> 20:16.900 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
it had to prevail.

20:17.000 --> 20:20.166 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75%
The alternative was to leave
the continent a forest,

20:20.266 --> 20:23.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
a wilderness, unowned,
legally uninhabited.

20:25.833 --> 20:27.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
The image of the continent

20:27.733 --> 20:30.066 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
and the national
mission it called forth

20:30.166 --> 20:31.866 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
is, of course, intimately linked

20:31.966 --> 20:36.100 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
with the expropriation and
genocide of Native Americans.

20:36.200 --> 20:39.400 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
And, contrary to certain
historical images,

20:39.500 --> 20:41.533 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
very little about the
clearing and settlement

20:41.633 --> 20:44.700 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
that it set in motion
was spontaneous.

20:44.800 --> 20:48.133 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
Much of American law in the
first century of independence

20:48.233 --> 20:52.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
was dedicated to converting
frontier into private property.

20:52.966 --> 20:56.166 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
Federal statutes offered
a series of bargains.

20:56.266 --> 20:58.566 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
You could become an
owner, a proprietor,

20:58.666 --> 21:00.366 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
by settling a place,

21:00.466 --> 21:02.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
by cutting trees in forest land

21:02.833 --> 21:05.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5%
or planting them in grassland,

21:06.066 --> 21:09.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
by draining wetlands
or irrigating drylands,

21:09.500 --> 21:11.266 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5%
by mining valuable minerals

21:11.366 --> 21:15.533 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
or, in some cases,
simply gathering stone.

21:15.633 --> 21:18.600 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5%
The key was to
transform something

21:18.700 --> 21:20.800 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
in a way that drew
economic value from it

21:20.900 --> 21:24.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
and brought it into the
legal terms of ownership.

21:24.433 --> 21:28.466 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
The landscapes we
mostly know, personally,

21:28.566 --> 21:31.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
the private land of the
East and the Midwest,

21:31.633 --> 21:34.000 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
began in these ways.

21:34.100 --> 21:36.366 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
John Locke's famous parable,

21:36.466 --> 21:40.166 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
that people made property by
mixing their labor with nature,

21:40.266 --> 21:45.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
happened again and again under
the aegis of American law,

21:45.133 --> 21:48.633 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
often enough via the
labor of enslaved people.

21:48.733 --> 21:50.833 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
In North Carolina,
where I live now,

21:50.933 --> 21:53.433 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
and in other Southern
jurisdictions,

21:53.533 --> 21:56.133 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
settlers could claim extra acres

21:56.233 --> 21:59.400 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
for each body the
law said they owned.

22:00.600 --> 22:03.466 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
So a few points
are emerging here.

22:03.566 --> 22:06.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
One is that different kinds
of landscapes are produced

22:06.733 --> 22:10.900 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
by different kinds of legal
landscape architecture.

22:12.000 --> 22:14.166 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
Laws creating and managing parks

22:14.266 --> 22:16.133 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
are only the most
obvious example,

22:16.233 --> 22:18.266 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
the way in, so to speak.

22:18.366 --> 22:21.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
In fact, for every part
of every landscape,

22:21.966 --> 22:24.400 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
the soil, the trees
and other plants,

22:24.500 --> 22:26.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
the animals, the water,

22:26.366 --> 22:29.466 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
the oil or gas or
metals underground,

22:29.566 --> 22:32.033 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
the law has said,
in some respects,

22:32.133 --> 22:33.833 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
what shall be done with it,

22:33.933 --> 22:36.666 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
and, in every case, has said

22:36.766 --> 22:39.333 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
who will make that decision.

22:39.433 --> 22:41.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
The sum of these two questions,

22:41.966 --> 22:45.933 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
what will be done and who
decides what will be done,

22:46.033 --> 22:47.800 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
is our collective,

22:47.900 --> 22:51.133 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
often implicit landscape making,

22:51.233 --> 22:52.833 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
whether it's the cathedrals

22:52.933 --> 22:55.233 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
of Yosemite and
Glacier that we make

22:55.333 --> 22:59.866 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
or the geology of wreckage in
the Appalachian coalfields,

22:59.966 --> 23:03.100 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
which you can trace
through property deeds,

23:03.200 --> 23:05.266 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
the legislative
compromises that produced

23:05.366 --> 23:09.900 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
the Surface Mining Control
and Reclamation Act of 1978,

23:10.000 --> 23:12.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
and the interpretation
of the Clean Water Act

23:12.600 --> 23:14.566 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
that allows the
burial of streams

23:14.666 --> 23:17.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
in disposing of mining rubble.

23:17.700 --> 23:20.000 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
Not every way of
seeing a landscape

23:20.100 --> 23:22.600 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
corresponds to a legal regime

23:22.700 --> 23:25.166 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
as neatly as the ones
I've been discussing,

23:25.266 --> 23:29.066 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
but when a way of
seeing shapes a terrain,

23:29.166 --> 23:33.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
when ideas and materiality
rise and meet each other

23:33.733 --> 23:35.666 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
in a changing landscape,

23:35.766 --> 23:39.266 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
law is often the
circuit that links them.

23:40.700 --> 23:42.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
A second point is that,

23:43.033 --> 23:46.300 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
although I have been
naming a landscape

23:46.400 --> 23:49.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
to instance each way of seeing,

23:49.233 --> 23:52.533 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
every landscape in which
people have taken an interest

23:52.633 --> 23:55.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80%
is also a landscape of conflict.

23:55.566 --> 23:59.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
They're cross-cut by competing
visions and narratives.

23:59.566 --> 24:03.966 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
In Appalachia, for instance,
my way of telling the story

24:04.066 --> 24:05.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
will run up against another

24:05.800 --> 24:08.233 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
in which the survival
of coal mining

24:08.333 --> 24:12.500 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
against environmentalist
intrusion is heroic
self-defense.

24:13.633 --> 24:15.400 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
And as recently as the 1970s,

24:15.500 --> 24:17.766 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
there was a third
narrative there,

24:17.866 --> 24:20.066 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
advanced by the
insurgent labor movement,

24:20.166 --> 24:22.100 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
the Miners for Democracy,

24:22.200 --> 24:24.100 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
which held that
miners should work

24:24.200 --> 24:26.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
in a way that preserved
their own health

24:26.800 --> 24:28.533 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
and the health of the land,

24:28.633 --> 24:30.366 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
and should strike

24:30.466 --> 24:34.266 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
when they were asked to dig
coal in ways that either

24:34.366 --> 24:36.500 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
threatened to give
workers black lung

24:36.600 --> 24:39.266 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
or trapped them
in mine collapses,

24:39.366 --> 24:43.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
or promised to destroy
streams and mountains.

24:44.500 --> 24:49.133 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
Now that version of
the coalfields is gone,

24:49.233 --> 24:51.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
along with most of the
power of its union,

24:51.600 --> 24:53.333 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
the United Mine Workers,

24:53.433 --> 24:58.266 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
and the meaning of this land
is split between two poles.

24:59.733 --> 25:03.766 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
From one, the sacrifice of
a region for a few decades

25:03.866 --> 25:06.866 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
of marginally cheaper energy
is one of the great pieces

25:06.966 --> 25:09.966 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
of environmental
injustice in our age.

25:10.066 --> 25:13.500 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
From the other, the victims
of environmental injustice

25:13.600 --> 25:17.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
are the miners themselves,
expelled from their work,

25:17.733 --> 25:19.833 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
much as farmers were
expelled from the land

25:19.933 --> 25:23.333 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
that became the Shenandoah
National Park nearby,

25:23.433 --> 25:26.300 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
a few hours to the
east of the coalfields.

25:26.400 --> 25:28.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
I don't share the second view.

25:28.466 --> 25:30.400 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
I think it's ill-founded,

25:30.500 --> 25:33.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
but I don't find it mysterious.

25:35.000 --> 25:38.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
By the way, I never use slides,

25:38.133 --> 25:40.533 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
so my fingers are figuring
out how to use them.

25:40.633 --> 25:41.766 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
(audience chuckles)

25:41.866 --> 25:43.666 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
The lecture is about
the words always,

25:43.766 --> 25:47.933 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
but I felt, in this case,
that some images would help.

25:50.033 --> 25:52.366 align:left position:27.5%,start line:89% size:62.5%
In some landscapes,

25:52.466 --> 25:55.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5%
the lines of conflict--

25:55.733 --> 25:59.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
Actually, I'm not going
to talk about those

25:59.133 --> 26:00.633 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70%
because we need the time.

26:00.733 --> 26:03.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
The conflict that I'm
talking about here

26:03.300 --> 26:06.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
is not just notional
or metaphoric.

26:06.300 --> 26:09.333 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
These overlapping,
competing landscapes

26:09.433 --> 26:11.700 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5%
have their constituencies,

26:11.800 --> 26:13.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5%
people invested in certain ways

26:13.633 --> 26:15.533 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5%
of relating to
the natural world,

26:15.633 --> 26:17.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5%
in the ways they make a living,

26:17.133 --> 26:19.700 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5%
but also at the
level of identity.

26:19.800 --> 26:22.800 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
To take an extreme example,
those militia types

26:22.900 --> 26:25.266 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
who occupied the
Malheur Wildlife Refuge

26:25.366 --> 26:27.966 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
in Southeastern
Oregon last spring

26:28.066 --> 26:32.766 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
were carrying forward the
view that land really belongs

26:32.866 --> 26:35.833 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
to those who work it
and make it productive.

26:35.933 --> 26:39.733 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
Their beef was with
the visions and laws

26:39.833 --> 26:42.366 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
of each ensuing generation,

26:42.466 --> 26:44.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
with federal land managers,

26:44.733 --> 26:48.233 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
with romantic aficionados
of undisturbed beauty,

26:48.333 --> 26:51.433 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
and, of course, with
ecologists who can explain

26:51.533 --> 26:54.066 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
how cattle grazing
harms the waterways

26:54.166 --> 26:58.033 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
where migratory birds
rest in the Malheur.

26:58.133 --> 27:02.233 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
These landscapes are
overburdened with
conflicting uses,

27:02.333 --> 27:06.000 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
conflicting laws,
conflicting meanings,

27:06.100 --> 27:09.433 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
and sometimes the
lines of tension snap.

27:11.500 --> 27:15.033 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
These landscapes of
conflict, it seems to me,

27:15.133 --> 27:17.133 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
are very concrete expressions

27:17.233 --> 27:21.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
of something that is often
said in grandly abstract terms,

27:21.533 --> 27:24.666 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
that the world has entered
a new geological era,

27:24.766 --> 27:27.266 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
which some earth
scientists and others call

27:27.366 --> 27:30.600 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
the Anthropocene,
the epoch of humanity.

27:30.700 --> 27:33.166 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
I think the Anthropocene idea

27:33.266 --> 27:36.300 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
is best broken down
into two ideas,

27:36.400 --> 27:39.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
which are distinct but
entangled together.

27:39.800 --> 27:43.333 align:left position:35%,start line:5% size:55%
First is the
Anthropocene condition,

27:43.433 --> 27:47.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
the intensity and pervasiveness
of human influence

27:47.200 --> 27:50.033 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
on the world's biological
and chemical orders,

27:50.133 --> 27:52.466 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
which means that,
from here forward,

27:52.566 --> 27:56.500 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
the world we inhabit will
be the world we have made,

27:56.600 --> 27:57.833 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
shared with the other life

27:57.933 --> 28:00.500 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
that we've valued
enough to preserve it,

28:00.600 --> 28:03.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
on the landscapes that
match our visions,

28:03.566 --> 28:07.800 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
or, as with the coalfields
and, in some respects,

28:07.900 --> 28:10.400 align:left position:37.5%,start line:5% size:52.5%
with every
climate-changed place,

28:10.500 --> 28:12.966 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
our unspoken priorities,

28:13.066 --> 28:17.233 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
even if not the ideas many of
us would stand up to claim.

28:18.733 --> 28:24.200 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
Second, is the
Anthropocene insight,

28:24.300 --> 28:27.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
the recognition that all these
competing ideals of nature

28:27.866 --> 28:31.800 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
and the human place in it
are cultural creations,

28:31.900 --> 28:36.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
ways that we've learned
to see and to be,

28:36.133 --> 28:38.966 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
and, usually, ways of arguing

28:39.066 --> 28:42.233 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
about our political,
economic and cultural lives

28:42.333 --> 28:45.533 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
as much as about
the non-human world.

28:45.633 --> 28:48.233 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
Once we've peeled
away the layers

28:48.333 --> 28:51.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
of human activity that
shape these landscapes

28:51.400 --> 28:54.100 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
and appreciated the
many angles of vision

28:54.200 --> 28:56.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
from which they can make sense,

28:56.133 --> 29:00.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
there's no avoiding that they
are Anthropocene landscapes.

29:00.533 --> 29:04.766 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
What else could they be,
as long as we are in them?

29:06.433 --> 29:10.166 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
And what, then,
could be the value

29:10.266 --> 29:14.066 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
of imagining that you
rise from a piece of land,

29:14.166 --> 29:18.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
continuous somehow with
its spirit and meaning,

29:18.733 --> 29:21.966 align:left position:35%,start line:5% size:55%
the idea of a
landscape as an origin,

29:22.066 --> 29:25.866 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
the place where I
began this lecture?

29:25.966 --> 29:28.633 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
I'd like to return
to that idea now,

29:28.733 --> 29:30.533 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
but along a different path,

29:30.633 --> 29:35.366 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
by thinking of a landscape
not as an origin exactly

29:35.466 --> 29:40.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
but, in one sense, the
opposite, as a sanctuary,

29:40.100 --> 29:41.566 align:left position:42.5%,start line:5% size:47.5%
a place

29:41.666 --> 29:44.233 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70%
of respite and reprieve,

29:44.333 --> 29:46.500 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
not the place where
you come from,

29:46.600 --> 29:48.766 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5%
but the place you flee to.

29:50.633 --> 29:54.566 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
"Without wilderness," said
Senator Frank Church of Idaho,

29:54.666 --> 29:58.566 align:left position:35%,start line:83% size:55%
debating the
Wilderness Act of 1964,

29:58.666 --> 30:02.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70%
"Without wilderness, this
country would become a cage."

30:03.966 --> 30:06.333 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
"We need a place,"
Thoreau had written

30:06.433 --> 30:08.333 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
more than a century earlier,

30:08.433 --> 30:11.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
"where we feel our
limits transgressed,"

30:11.266 --> 30:15.233 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
a place outside villages
and subdivisions.

30:15.333 --> 30:17.200 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
This was something,

30:17.300 --> 30:20.500 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
this idea of the outside,

30:20.600 --> 30:23.300 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
the outside of everything
as a kind of sanctuary,

30:23.400 --> 30:25.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
an alternative inside,

30:25.600 --> 30:27.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
that enslaved people understood

30:27.366 --> 30:30.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
when they escaped into
the Great Dismal Swamp

30:30.400 --> 30:33.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
at the border of North
Carolina and Virginia,

30:33.300 --> 30:35.600 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
and established long-lasting
settlements there

30:35.700 --> 30:38.666 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
with furtive ties
to the solid ground

30:38.766 --> 30:42.833 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
where they would have quickly
been reclassified as property.

30:42.933 --> 30:46.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
It was apparent to the peoples
of highland Southeast Asia

30:46.200 --> 30:49.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
who resisted domination
by lowland empires

30:49.533 --> 30:51.066 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
for many centuries,

30:51.166 --> 30:55.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
a story Jim Scott tells in
"The Art of Not Being Governed,"

30:55.533 --> 30:57.633 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
a study in geographic
imagination

30:57.733 --> 31:00.533 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
that puts the upland
margins of empire

31:00.633 --> 31:05.100 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
at the center of
a counter-imperial
picture of history.

31:05.200 --> 31:08.966 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
I have my own way of
thinking about this question,

31:09.066 --> 31:11.000 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
which, as it happens,

31:11.100 --> 31:14.200 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
I developed while thinking
about a series of dreams

31:14.300 --> 31:17.133 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
that I began having
a few years ago.

31:17.233 --> 31:21.800 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
In these dreams, I start
walking up a wooded slope,

31:21.900 --> 31:25.933 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
and here the dreams depart

31:26.033 --> 31:29.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
from the low terrain of the
Carolina Piedmont where I live.

31:29.966 --> 31:33.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
In the dreams, the
slope rises and rises,

31:33.266 --> 31:36.833 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
through the loblolly
pine into steep pastures,

31:36.933 --> 31:38.866 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
which level out
into high meadows

31:38.966 --> 31:42.600 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
and then rise again
to crests of stone.

31:42.700 --> 31:44.600 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
Sometimes there's no stone.

31:44.700 --> 31:46.233 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
The meadows are the top.

31:46.333 --> 31:48.533 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
They slope along a
broad ridge line,

31:48.633 --> 31:50.400 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
or they may be just
a couple hundred

31:50.500 --> 31:52.600 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
vertical feet of pasture

31:52.700 --> 31:56.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
with a little mix of beech
and oak tufting on top.

31:58.033 --> 32:01.066 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
Only waking destroys
my new geography.

32:01.166 --> 32:03.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
And when I wake up,
my sense that the dream

32:03.266 --> 32:06.466 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
has identified something
real is so strong

32:06.566 --> 32:09.566 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
that I've more than once
looked up topographic maps

32:09.666 --> 32:12.466 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
just to see whether
the hills I've dreamed

32:12.566 --> 32:14.466 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
are actually there,

32:14.566 --> 32:17.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
which, of course, they're not.

32:17.600 --> 32:20.566 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
I think the wish
these dreams express

32:20.666 --> 32:24.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
is for a way to get above a
terrain without leaving it,

32:24.833 --> 32:27.733 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
to merge many small horizons

32:27.833 --> 32:30.200 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
into one image.

32:30.300 --> 32:33.300 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
These dreams sketch a
geography of thinking,

32:33.400 --> 32:38.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
a way of seeing a place
whole without leaving it.

32:38.100 --> 32:40.033 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
Of course, my dream landscape

32:40.133 --> 32:42.900 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
is not the only
geography of thinking.

32:43.000 --> 32:45.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
It's the one that you might
carry if you had grown up

32:45.400 --> 32:50.166 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
where I did, in a very
specific Appalachian landscape.

32:50.266 --> 32:53.233 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
From any place that
people lived there,

32:53.333 --> 32:56.666 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
you could escape on
foot to a higher spot.

32:56.766 --> 33:01.166 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
Every settled place contained
its own upward exits.

33:01.266 --> 33:04.300 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
It was really not one
landscape but two,

33:04.400 --> 33:06.866 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
a pattern of valleys
called hollows

33:06.966 --> 33:10.300 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
with its counterpart in a
second pattern of ridges.

33:10.400 --> 33:13.100 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
The pair of terrains were joined

33:13.200 --> 33:15.533 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
by steep, mainly
wooded hillsides,

33:15.633 --> 33:19.933 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
and knowing the valleys did
not mean you knew the ridges.

33:20.033 --> 33:23.433 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
A slight misstep setting
off from a high place

33:23.533 --> 33:26.033 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
could land you in
an unintended valley

33:26.133 --> 33:29.433 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
with unexpected people and
miles by the valley roads

33:29.533 --> 33:31.766 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
from where you meant to be.

33:31.866 --> 33:34.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
The two landscapes had
complementary logic,

33:34.800 --> 33:39.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
and moving between them
took caution and attention.

33:39.600 --> 33:44.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
That's a landscape that
gives its dissidents

33:45.000 --> 33:49.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
an upward path to escape on
foot, at least for a while,

33:49.833 --> 33:54.233 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
and that lends its critics a
commanding view of its shape.

33:54.333 --> 33:56.866 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
It's not a safe or
certain landscape,

33:56.966 --> 33:59.100 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
and moving across
it can always exact

33:59.200 --> 34:01.166 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
the price of confusion,

34:01.266 --> 34:04.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
the likelihood of still
walking the wrong way

34:04.766 --> 34:06.500 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
when night comes.

34:07.600 --> 34:10.900 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
So with this image in mind,
let's return for a minute

34:11.000 --> 34:15.100 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
to those opening images of a
landscape as a point of origin.

34:15.200 --> 34:18.600 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
Take E.P. Thompson,
whose radical coal miner

34:18.700 --> 34:22.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
literally came from the
ground as Thompson says.

34:23.000 --> 34:25.400 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
Actually, everything
in Thompson's story

34:25.500 --> 34:27.233 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
feels as if it came
from the ground

34:27.333 --> 34:31.533 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
and had some sense of it
clinging to the defining acts

34:31.633 --> 34:34.666 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
of the radicals whose
stories he tells.

34:34.766 --> 34:38.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5%
Without saying so, not
more than once anyway,

34:38.166 --> 34:40.900 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5%
Thompson manages to conjure
up that most un-Marxist

34:41.000 --> 34:42.933 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
and un-academic thought,

34:43.033 --> 34:46.300 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
that the land itself
was somehow aligned

34:46.400 --> 34:50.400 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
with the populist and radical
ancestors of English socialism

34:50.500 --> 34:53.966 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
and that its defining
chemistry, color, and scent

34:54.066 --> 34:58.266 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
were present in the moments
of their decisive acts,

34:58.366 --> 35:02.666 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
that the land was a friend
to its own dissenters.

35:02.766 --> 35:07.266 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
Berry, too, wants the land to
be with him in his dissent,

35:07.366 --> 35:08.866 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
dissent from what he called

35:08.966 --> 35:11.066 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
in the title of his
most famous book,

35:11.166 --> 35:13.233 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
"The Unsettling of America,"

35:13.333 --> 35:15.966 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
the separation of
identity from place,

35:16.066 --> 35:20.266 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
pleasure from work,
eating from knowledge.

35:20.366 --> 35:22.766 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
These claims of nativity

35:22.866 --> 35:26.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
are really bids for sanctuary,

35:26.800 --> 35:30.166 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
for a piece of ground
where the higher,

35:30.266 --> 35:32.200 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
not the higher,
let's say the larger,

35:32.300 --> 35:37.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
the larger logic of the
world does not entirely rule,

35:37.133 --> 35:39.633 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
a seedbed for your dissent.

35:39.733 --> 35:42.833 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
What else are people
getting at when they say,

35:42.933 --> 35:44.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
"They tried to bury us,

35:44.366 --> 35:47.300 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
"they didn't know
we were seeds"?

35:47.400 --> 35:50.400 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60%
Imagine a terrain
where that's true.

35:51.566 --> 35:53.166 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
Thoreau wrote in his journal,

35:53.266 --> 35:57.233 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
around the same time that he
was engaging Massachusetts's

35:57.333 --> 36:00.366 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
dispute over the Fugitive
Slave Act's enforcement,

36:00.466 --> 36:05.066 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
that it was a "maimed
and imperfect nature"

36:05.166 --> 36:07.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
that he was "conversant with."

36:08.833 --> 36:11.066 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
For someone who went
into the landscape

36:11.166 --> 36:13.533 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
to see himself reflected,

36:13.633 --> 36:16.666 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
that's a strong piece
of self-knowledge.

36:16.766 --> 36:19.033 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
Walking to the
ponds, as he put it,

36:19.133 --> 36:22.433 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65%
was never a return to
something pristine.

36:22.533 --> 36:24.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5%
It was, like politics,

36:25.066 --> 36:28.700 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5%
a way of joining in
with a record of damage

36:28.800 --> 36:30.700 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75%
and of conceits and fantasies

36:30.800 --> 36:33.233 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60%
that have turned
to material facts,

36:33.333 --> 36:36.000 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80%
which then have to be inhabited.

36:37.933 --> 36:40.900 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
The violence of nationalism
and of nativism,

36:41.000 --> 36:43.100 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
to return to those words,

36:43.200 --> 36:46.866 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
is partly in their denial
of these realities,

36:46.966 --> 36:48.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5%
the realities of imperfection,

36:48.600 --> 36:53.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
of conflict, of multiplicity,
of inherited damage,

36:53.166 --> 36:55.233 align:left position:35%,start line:5% size:55%
their torrid
fantasy of a terrain

36:55.333 --> 36:58.133 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
that is theirs
and no one else's,

36:58.233 --> 37:01.366 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
that's home to their
meaning and no other.

37:01.466 --> 37:03.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
The violence gets more
concrete, of course,

37:03.933 --> 37:07.966 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
in detention centers
and airports and the
building of walls,

37:08.066 --> 37:10.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
but some of it belongs
to the very idea

37:10.400 --> 37:14.300 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
that any place in the world
could belong to and ratify

37:14.400 --> 37:16.733 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75%
just one way of being in it.

37:17.900 --> 37:21.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
A landscape that sides
with its dissenters,

37:21.466 --> 37:24.600 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
like a historical narrative
or a constitutional culture

37:24.700 --> 37:28.100 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
that prizes its
dissidents and outsiders,

37:28.200 --> 37:33.133 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
may be a resource for
a certain productive

37:33.233 --> 37:35.833 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
ethical ecology and
political ecology

37:35.933 --> 37:39.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5%
between self-restraint
and self-assertion,

37:39.666 --> 37:41.966 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
at least for people like me

37:42.066 --> 37:45.133 align:left position:32.5%,start line:5% size:57.5%
whose minds are
already and always

37:45.233 --> 37:46.900 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65%
bent toward terrain.

37:48.133 --> 37:50.833 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5%
In landscapes whose
meaning is as crowded

37:50.933 --> 37:53.066 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70%
and conflictual as ours,

37:53.166 --> 37:57.533 align:left position:17.5%,start line:5% size:72.5%
there's room, at least, for
strange kinds of dissent

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and for unexpected
kinds of consciousness.

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When I finish a
reflection like this one,

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I feel, like Berry or like
E.P. Thompson's miner,

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that I'm recollecting myself,

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rising up from the ground

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and reborn into my
usual consciousness.

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We might ask this
question about any little

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ecological trip like
this one, any sojourn

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into the question of
nature, nativity and place.

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The question is does
it make the question,

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does it make the issue of how
to live among other people

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seem simpler or seem
more complicated?

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If it makes it seem simpler,

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maybe we should mistrust
where we've been.

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If it makes the question
feel more complicated,

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then we might, for the moment,
be doing something right,

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no matter how difficult
making sense of it may be.

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Thank you very much
for joining me,

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and I'm delighted to discuss

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the themes of this lecture
or anything else with you.

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(audience applauds)