WEBVTT 00:01.200 --> 00:02.800 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% - Welcome, everyone, to Wednesday Nite @ the Lab. 00:02.900 --> 00:04.200 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% I'm Tom Zinnen. 00:04.300 --> 00:06.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I work here at the UW-Madison Biotechnology Center. 00:06.633 --> 00:09.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% I also work for UW Extension Cooperative Extension, 00:09.300 --> 00:11.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and on behalf of those folks and our other co-organizers, 00:12.033 --> 00:13.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% Wisconsin Public Television, 00:13.666 --> 00:15.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% the Wisconsin Alumni Association, 00:15.400 --> 00:17.833 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and the UW-Madison Science Alliance, 00:17.933 --> 00:19.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% thanks again for coming to Wednesday Nite @ the Lab. 00:20.000 --> 00:24.000 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% We do this every Wednesday night, 50 times a year. 00:24.100 --> 00:25.233 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% Tonight it's my pleasure 00:25.333 --> 00:27.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% to introduce to you Christy Remucal. 00:27.466 --> 00:30.533 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% She was born in Prescott, Arizona, 00:30.633 --> 00:33.833 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% and grew up in Taos, New Mexico. 00:35.433 --> 00:36.866 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And then she went to MIT 00:36.966 --> 00:39.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% for her undergraduate in environmental engineering, 00:40.066 --> 00:41.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% went to Cal-Berkeley 00:41.466 --> 00:43.800 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% to get her PhD in environmental engineering, 00:43.900 --> 00:47.033 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and then went to the Swiss Federal Institute for Technology 00:47.133 --> 00:50.433 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in Zurich in Switzerland to do a post doc, 00:50.533 --> 00:54.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and she's been here at UW-Madison since 2012. 00:54.100 --> 00:55.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% She's here to talk about one 00:55.333 --> 00:59.133 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% of our favorite things, lampreys. 00:59.233 --> 01:00.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% She's gonna talk about the environmental fate 01:00.966 --> 01:04.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% of lampricides in tributaries of the Great Lakes. 01:04.666 --> 01:07.500 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% This week is the run up to Earth week, Earth Day, 01:07.600 --> 01:10.733 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% excuse me, and I think it's a particularly interesting topic 01:10.833 --> 01:14.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% to think about what one of these special days sponsored 01:14.400 --> 01:18.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% and started largely by Gaylord Nelson of Wisconsin, 01:18.533 --> 01:22.233 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% how we look at things today compared to 1970 01:22.333 --> 01:24.500 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% when Earth Day first started. 01:24.600 --> 01:27.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% Please join me in welcoming Christy Remucal 01:27.666 --> 01:29.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% of Civil and Environmental Engineering 01:29.166 --> 01:30.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% to Wednesday Nite @ the Lab. 01:30.733 --> 01:32.300 align:left position:37.5%,start line:5% size:52.5% Thank you. - Thank you. 01:32.400 --> 01:35.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% (audience applauds) 01:35.866 --> 01:38.800 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% All right, is the volume is okay? 01:38.900 --> 01:41.500 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% Well, thank you, Tom, for the invitation to be here, 01:41.600 --> 01:42.666 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% and thank you all. 01:42.766 --> 01:44.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% A really big thanks for coming out 01:44.400 --> 01:46.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% with the bad roads and weather. 01:46.566 --> 01:48.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Like I said, I had low expectations, 01:48.866 --> 01:51.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% but it's really nice to see all you out here. 01:51.100 --> 01:52.666 align:left position:32.5%,start line:83% size:57.5% Is it okay? All right. 01:52.766 --> 01:53.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% Right, so as Tom said, 01:54.033 --> 01:55.333 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% I'm gonna present some of our work 01:55.433 --> 01:57.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% looking at the fate of lampricides. 01:57.666 --> 01:58.966 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Lampricides are pesticides 01:59.066 --> 02:00.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% which are used to kill the sea lamprey. 02:00.866 --> 02:03.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So I'll sort of talk about why we use them 02:03.866 --> 02:05.033 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and what happens to them 02:05.133 --> 02:06.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% once we put them out in the environment. 02:06.866 --> 02:08.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I'm coming from the Department of Civil 02:08.633 --> 02:09.733 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and Environmental Engineering 02:09.833 --> 02:11.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and I'm also in the Environmental Chemistry 02:11.333 --> 02:14.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and Technology Program here at UW Madison. 02:14.633 --> 02:16.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And the project I'm gonna present is really 02:16.633 --> 02:17.933 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% near and dear to my heart. 02:18.033 --> 02:20.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% This is the first project I started when I came to Madison. 02:20.433 --> 02:22.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So I've been working on this for, 02:22.333 --> 02:24.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% I guess, the last six years. 02:24.333 --> 02:27.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So to give you an overview of what I'll be talking about, 02:28.066 --> 02:30.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% first I wanna set the stage and talk about lampricides, 02:30.866 --> 02:33.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% what they are, and they're used to kill the sea lamprey. 02:33.833 --> 02:35.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So I'm actually gonna start 02:35.233 --> 02:37.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% by telling you a little bit about the sea lamprey. 02:37.233 --> 02:39.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% How many people have heard of the sea lamprey before? 02:39.800 --> 02:40.900 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% Most of you, yeah, 02:41.000 --> 02:42.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they're, I don't know, gross, scary fish. 02:42.666 --> 02:44.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So I'll show you some pictures of them. 02:44.866 --> 02:46.533 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And then I'm an environmental chemist 02:46.633 --> 02:48.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and so I really care about, you know, 02:49.000 --> 02:50.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% we put these chemicals in the environment 02:51.033 --> 02:53.000 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% and they do their job to kill 02:53.100 --> 02:54.466 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% this really nasty invasive species, 02:54.566 --> 02:57.400 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and then I wanna find out what happens to them 02:57.500 --> 02:58.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% out in the environment. 02:58.700 --> 03:00.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And so we'll start simple. 03:00.166 --> 03:03.066 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% We'll start with some experiments we did in the laboratory 03:03.166 --> 03:05.033 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% under very well-controlled conditions. 03:05.133 --> 03:07.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And then I'll take you out into the field. 03:08.600 --> 03:10.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Our group focuses on photo degradation. 03:10.933 --> 03:12.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So that's how sunlight can naturally 03:12.666 --> 03:15.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% cause chemicals to break down, 03:15.100 --> 03:16.866 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so this is a natural process. 03:16.966 --> 03:18.666 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And that's what we're gonna focus on. 03:18.766 --> 03:20.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And what we'll see is that even though 03:20.466 --> 03:23.633 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% in the lab we can look at the chemicals degrading by light, 03:23.733 --> 03:26.333 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% we can identify the products, 03:26.433 --> 03:29.333 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% the chemicals they turn into, 03:29.433 --> 03:31.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% and what I'll show you is that they can actually, 03:31.533 --> 03:33.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% they change from something that's toxic 03:33.500 --> 03:36.400 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% to something that's nontoxic, which is a really good thing. 03:36.500 --> 03:38.833 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% But when we move out into the field, 03:38.933 --> 03:40.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% sort of it is hindsight is 20/20. 03:40.533 --> 03:42.166 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% We picked our field sites pretty poorly. 03:42.266 --> 03:44.033 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% We didn't actually see much photo degradation out 03:44.133 --> 03:46.500 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% in the field of the sites that we picked. 03:46.600 --> 03:48.666 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% And we can explain it and talk about that, 03:48.766 --> 03:52.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% but part of this story is also some of the challenges 03:52.366 --> 03:54.100 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% when we go from our well-controlled conditions 03:54.200 --> 03:56.033 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% in the laboratory out into the environment 03:56.133 --> 03:59.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% and some of the other factors that come into play. 03:59.200 --> 04:01.933 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% So if we knew then when we know now, 04:02.033 --> 04:03.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% we might have picked sites differently, 04:03.400 --> 04:06.000 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% but it's still an interesting story to go through. 04:06.100 --> 04:08.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And we do think that photo degradation, 04:08.333 --> 04:09.866 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% so this natural break down by sunlight, 04:09.966 --> 04:11.400 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% is gonna be important in some systems, 04:11.500 --> 04:12.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% and we can kind of calculate 04:12.933 --> 04:14.600 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% how important it is gonna be. 04:16.066 --> 04:18.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% I wanna start, I have a huge list of people to thank. 04:18.933 --> 04:20.333 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% This is really a team effort. 04:20.433 --> 04:23.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% The main person here is Megan McConville. 04:23.866 --> 04:25.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% She was my first PhD student in my lab. 04:25.933 --> 04:27.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% She's actually holding a sea lamprey there 04:27.933 --> 04:30.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and looking very happy about it for some reason. 04:31.933 --> 04:34.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then Laura and Natan are undergrads 04:34.400 --> 04:35.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% who contributed to this project. 04:35.800 --> 04:38.833 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% We also did a lot of work with USGS, 04:38.933 --> 04:40.233 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% particularly Terry Hubert. 04:40.333 --> 04:41.700 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% He was a really big asset 04:41.800 --> 04:45.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% in helping us really understand the system. 04:45.700 --> 04:47.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And then, for the field studies, 04:47.166 --> 04:50.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% the two in the middle on the bottom, Steve and Shawn. 04:50.833 --> 04:53.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So US Fish & Wildlife is a group 04:53.166 --> 04:55.866 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% that actually goes and puts these chemicals in the water, 04:55.966 --> 04:57.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and so we worked really closely 04:57.500 --> 04:58.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% with them on all the fieldwork, 04:58.700 --> 05:00.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% like in the middle of the night 05:00.466 --> 05:02.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in the pouring down rain sampling with them, 05:02.600 --> 05:04.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and we couldn't have done this work without them. 05:04.500 --> 05:06.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then Adam is a hydrologist who helped 05:06.633 --> 05:09.366 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% with some of the modeling that I'm gonna show. 05:09.466 --> 05:11.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then most of this work was funded 05:11.333 --> 05:12.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% by the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. 05:12.933 --> 05:15.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% This is the US and Canadian agency 05:15.666 --> 05:19.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that actually oversees the sea lamprey control program. 05:19.633 --> 05:22.066 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% This fish is a problem in both the US and Canada, 05:22.166 --> 05:23.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% so it's really nice that they work together, 05:24.066 --> 05:26.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% and they've been really supportive of our work. 05:26.333 --> 05:28.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And then we also got a little bit of funding 05:28.533 --> 05:30.666 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% from Sea Grant and then the National Science Foundation. 05:31.666 --> 05:33.033 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% So I wanna start, I guess, 05:33.133 --> 05:35.033 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% by introducing you to the villain in our story, 05:35.133 --> 05:36.966 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% which is of course the sea lamprey. 05:37.066 --> 05:40.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And you've probably seen pictures like this before. 05:40.333 --> 05:42.233 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So the sea lamprey is an invasive species. 05:42.333 --> 05:44.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% It's found in all of the Great Lakes. 05:45.600 --> 05:48.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And there are a lot of invasive species in the Great Lakes. 05:48.100 --> 05:49.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% You hear a lot about different species. 05:50.033 --> 05:51.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And the reason why the sea lamprey is 05:51.666 --> 05:54.166 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% such a big deal is because it's a parasite. 05:54.266 --> 05:56.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And so it preys on large fish, 05:57.066 --> 05:59.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% like lake trout, walleye, catfish, and so on. 06:00.066 --> 06:01.700 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And you can see in this first picture 06:01.800 --> 06:04.233 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% there's those like sucker-like fish, 06:04.333 --> 06:07.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and they basically, you know, attach to fish. 06:07.566 --> 06:09.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And you can see on this picture there are 06:09.366 --> 06:12.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% actually some wound marks from where the lamprey attached. 06:12.566 --> 06:16.866 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And this obviously can be lethal in many cases for the fish. 06:16.966 --> 06:19.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And this has been a really big deal for harming fisheries, 06:19.800 --> 06:21.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and that's why it's real important 06:21.133 --> 06:23.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% to control the population of these fish. 06:24.900 --> 06:27.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% The sea lamprey have been around for a really long time. 06:27.866 --> 06:30.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So they came in through shipping canals, 06:30.366 --> 06:32.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% so from the Atlantic Ocean. 06:32.166 --> 06:36.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So they were first found in Lake Ontario in the 1800s, 06:36.933 --> 06:39.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and then, as we opened up more and more shipping canals, 06:39.633 --> 06:41.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they kind of made their way westward. 06:41.566 --> 06:45.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And so they were found in Lake Eerie in 1921, 06:45.700 --> 06:47.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and then they made their way westward. 06:47.933 --> 06:51.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So they were found in Lake Superior by 1938. 06:51.266 --> 06:53.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So they've been around for a really long time. 06:55.666 --> 06:57.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And one of the reasons we care about this is 06:58.066 --> 06:59.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% because of their impact on the fisheries, 06:59.933 --> 07:02.566 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% especially the large commercial game fish. 07:03.566 --> 07:05.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% What I'm showing here is data 07:05.166 --> 07:09.100 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% that shows the commercial lake trout harvest with time, 07:09.200 --> 07:13.300 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% in Lake Superior on the top and Lake Michigan on the bottom. 07:13.400 --> 07:16.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And you can see up until about the 1940s or 1950s 07:16.366 --> 07:17.933 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% there was a pretty nice, stable harvest, 07:18.033 --> 07:22.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and then there was this big plummet that came down. 07:22.333 --> 07:24.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% The populations basically crashed. 07:24.666 --> 07:26.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And so I marked here in red the years 07:26.566 --> 07:28.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% when the sea lamprey were first detected 07:28.233 --> 07:31.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% in each of these lakes, and then about a decade, 07:31.100 --> 07:33.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% 10 to 15 years later there was this big crash. 07:33.933 --> 07:36.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And I don't want you to think that the sea lamprey were 07:36.933 --> 07:39.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% the only thing that caused the crash of the fisheries. 07:39.433 --> 07:40.600 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% There were other chemical stressors 07:40.700 --> 07:42.333 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and other issues going on as well, 07:42.433 --> 07:44.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% but the sea lamprey definitely contributed pretty heavily 07:44.433 --> 07:46.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% to the decline of the fisheries during this time. 07:46.700 --> 07:49.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% The good news, though, is that if you look further out 07:49.433 --> 07:51.100 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% with time, you can see the fisheries, 07:51.200 --> 07:53.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I mean they're not back to where they were 07:53.433 --> 07:56.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% but they've definitely been steadily improving. 07:56.100 --> 07:58.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And the sea lamprey control program has actually 07:58.133 --> 08:01.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% it's actually really effective at maintaining the population 08:01.766 --> 08:05.333 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% of the sea lamprey at sort of a low level as best they can. 08:05.433 --> 08:06.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% It's been really successful, 08:06.966 --> 08:09.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and that's helped the fisheries to come back. 08:10.233 --> 08:11.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So I'm gonna talk, I'm a chemist 08:12.000 --> 08:13.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% but I need to talk a little bit 08:13.933 --> 08:16.333 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% about the fish biology just because it's really important 08:16.433 --> 08:20.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% to know why they do the sea lamprey control 08:20.133 --> 08:21.200 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% the way that they do. 08:22.633 --> 08:26.133 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And so this is, yeah, sort of the life cycle of the fish. 08:26.233 --> 08:29.266 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And so they start out down here at the bottom as larvae. 08:29.366 --> 08:32.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And this is a picture that we took up at USGS in La Crosse. 08:32.733 --> 08:35.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And they're sort of these work-like little creatures. 08:35.500 --> 08:37.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% They live in the sediments. 08:37.466 --> 08:39.733 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% They start out their life and they're not parasitic, 08:39.833 --> 08:42.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% so that means they're not gonna attach to larger fish. 08:43.500 --> 08:44.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% After several years, 08:44.933 --> 08:47.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% they undergo a transformation or like a metamorphosis, 08:47.200 --> 08:49.866 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and that's when they get like the big, scary teeth. 08:49.966 --> 08:52.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And then, at that point, once they're parasitic, 08:52.566 --> 08:54.066 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% they go out into the Great Lakes 08:54.166 --> 08:56.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% where they feed on large fish. 08:57.833 --> 08:59.066 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And then they're like salmon. 08:59.166 --> 09:01.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% They go, return to the tributaries to spawn. 09:01.300 --> 09:02.366 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% They're not picky. 09:02.466 --> 09:04.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% They're not like salmon in that they always 09:04.533 --> 09:05.633 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% go to the same place. 09:05.733 --> 09:07.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% They can go to any tributary they want to, 09:08.066 --> 09:09.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% which actually makes it kind of harder 09:09.900 --> 09:11.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% to control them in a way. 09:12.566 --> 09:15.133 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% But they do return back to the tributaries to reproduce. 09:15.233 --> 09:17.666 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% And so the tributaries I guess I should define. 09:17.766 --> 09:20.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% Those are all the rivers that feed into the Great Lakes. 09:20.666 --> 09:23.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And they spend a lot of their life in those rivers. 09:23.900 --> 09:25.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And so for that reason, 09:25.433 --> 09:27.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% all the efforts to control the population of the sea lamprey 09:27.833 --> 09:30.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% focus on the rivers, on the tributaries. 09:30.500 --> 09:33.133 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% And that's because they're sort of in a more contained area, 09:33.233 --> 09:35.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and that's also where they spend when they're larvae. 09:35.733 --> 09:38.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So that's when they're most vulnerable, 09:38.466 --> 09:39.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% at least for the chemical stressors. 09:39.833 --> 09:41.500 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% And so that's why the sea lamprey control 09:41.600 --> 09:43.700 align:left position:27.5%,start line:5% size:62.5% really focuses on those tributaries. 09:44.966 --> 09:47.566 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% Now, to give you a sense of scale, 09:47.666 --> 09:50.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% how widespread these fish are, 09:50.600 --> 09:52.966 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% this is a nice map put together by Mike Siefkes, 09:53.066 --> 09:55.466 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% and every dot on this map shows a tributary 09:55.566 --> 09:58.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% with a known sea lamprey population. 09:58.100 --> 10:01.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So you can see that it spans both the Great Lakes 10:01.633 --> 10:04.000 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% in the US and in Canada. 10:04.100 --> 10:06.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% There are total around 450 tributaries 10:06.900 --> 10:09.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that have sea lamprey living in them. 10:09.600 --> 10:10.966 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% This is about, 10:11.066 --> 10:12.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% there are about 5,000 tributaries all together, 10:12.800 --> 10:14.400 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% so this is about 8% of the rivers 10:14.500 --> 10:17.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% around the Great Lakes have a sea lamprey infestation. 10:18.433 --> 10:20.666 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So this gives you a sense of scale 10:20.766 --> 10:22.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and why it's really important that both US 10:22.933 --> 10:25.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and Canada work together to control these fish. 10:26.100 --> 10:28.000 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% As far as sea lamprey control goes, 10:28.100 --> 10:30.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% there are a bunch of different things that are used. 10:31.933 --> 10:34.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% First of all, you can put in barriers to prevent migration. 10:34.333 --> 10:35.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So the fish, when they're gonna reproduce, 10:36.066 --> 10:37.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% they swim upstream. 10:37.400 --> 10:40.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So if you put in a barrier and they can't go upstream, 10:40.533 --> 10:41.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they can't go upstream and reproduce. 10:42.066 --> 10:44.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Of course, this will prevent any native fish 10:44.100 --> 10:45.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% that also need to go upstream, 10:45.666 --> 10:47.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% so you have to be careful about that. 10:47.766 --> 10:48.833 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% And there's work done 10:48.933 --> 10:51.166 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% on like sort of how to be more selective 10:51.266 --> 10:52.733 align:left position:30%,start line:5% size:60% about which fish can go upstream. 10:52.833 --> 10:55.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% You can actually go out and physically trap them, 10:55.166 --> 10:57.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% the larger fish, and catch them and kill them, 10:57.533 --> 10:59.900 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% so they do that in some instances. 11:00.000 --> 11:02.733 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% They also sometimes will release sterile males, 11:02.833 --> 11:05.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% so try to decrease fertility 11:05.133 --> 11:08.233 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% by putting out male fish that can't reproduce. 11:09.600 --> 11:10.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% There's some really interesting work 11:10.833 --> 11:12.433 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% going on now with pheromones. 11:12.533 --> 11:15.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Pheromones are chemicals that the fish can smell, 11:15.666 --> 11:17.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and they actually have identified pheromones 11:17.833 --> 11:19.766 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% that the fish really like 11:19.866 --> 11:21.166 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% and that the fish really don't like. 11:21.266 --> 11:22.933 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% I think they take like dead sea lamprey 11:23.033 --> 11:25.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and it's like a dead sea lamprey extract, basically. 11:25.333 --> 11:28.033 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% But it's, you can think about you might put a chemical 11:28.133 --> 11:29.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% that they like in one stream 11:29.666 --> 11:32.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and a chemical that they don't like in another stream 11:32.233 --> 11:34.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and make them all go toward you know one spot 11:34.766 --> 11:37.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and then you can trap them or do something else. 11:37.333 --> 11:39.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And this is not really widely used yet, 11:39.366 --> 11:41.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% but it's sort of up and coming 11:41.166 --> 11:44.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and like where a lot of the research is on new directions 11:44.200 --> 11:46.133 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% for sea lamprey control. 11:46.233 --> 11:47.600 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And then, last but not least, 11:47.700 --> 11:49.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% is what I'm gonna talk about, which are the lampricides. 11:49.700 --> 11:51.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% These are the two chemical pesticides, 11:51.400 --> 11:53.033 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and these are the most widely used. 11:53.133 --> 11:54.633 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% They've been used a really long time 11:54.733 --> 11:56.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and they're used all around the Great Lakes 11:56.900 --> 11:58.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and they've been really effective. 11:58.600 --> 12:01.033 align:left position:42.5%,start line:83% size:47.5% So let me, I guess now that we know 12:01.133 --> 12:02.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% a little bit about the fish, 12:02.600 --> 12:04.800 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I wanna show you a little bit about these two chemicals. 12:04.900 --> 12:06.333 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And there are two of them. 12:06.433 --> 12:09.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And so, like I said, adding a lampricide is 12:09.366 --> 12:11.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the most common way to control the sea lamprey, 12:11.900 --> 12:13.466 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% and there are two. 12:13.566 --> 12:15.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So the one that's in blue here, 12:15.533 --> 12:17.933 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% 3-trifluoromethyl-4-nitrophenol, 12:18.033 --> 12:19.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% which I'll just call TFM for short 12:19.966 --> 12:22.133 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% because that's just easier 12:22.233 --> 12:23.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% This chemical is pretty interesting. 12:23.433 --> 12:26.500 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% We started using it in the 1950s. 12:26.600 --> 12:30.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So it's been put in our waters for a really long time. 12:30.933 --> 12:34.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And it's considered to be selective for the sea lamprey. 12:34.366 --> 12:35.633 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% So back in the 1950s, 12:35.733 --> 12:39.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they tested thousands of chemicals on sea lamprey 12:39.766 --> 12:41.066 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and also on native fish. 12:41.166 --> 12:43.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And TFM they found was really good at killing 12:43.600 --> 12:48.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% the sea lamprey and less, not as toxic for native fish. 12:48.200 --> 12:50.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And this has to do with the fact that, 12:50.133 --> 12:51.400 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% again I'm not a biologist, 12:51.500 --> 12:53.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% but the sea lamprey are really ancient species 12:53.800 --> 12:56.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% and they're not able to get rid of the chemical, 12:56.633 --> 12:58.966 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% and so it is able to kill them pretty effectively. 13:00.966 --> 13:04.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% So TFM is added pretty much at all streams 13:04.833 --> 13:06.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% where they're adding these chemicals. 13:06.800 --> 13:08.533 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% It's added all the time at a rate of 13:08.633 --> 13:10.533 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% about 50,000 kilograms per year, which is a lot. 13:10.633 --> 13:12.333 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I'll show you some pictures here in a minute 13:12.433 --> 13:14.366 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% so you can kinda get a sense of the scale. 13:14.466 --> 13:18.166 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% In total, they treat about 120 tributaries every year 13:18.266 --> 13:20.000 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% in the US and Canada. 13:20.100 --> 13:22.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% Usually on a three- to four-year cycle, 13:22.400 --> 13:24.466 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% and that's because of the life cycle of the fish. 13:24.566 --> 13:27.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% So they'll treat a river and then three or four years later 13:28.000 --> 13:30.833 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% they'll come back and treat it again, usually. 13:30.933 --> 13:32.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% So TFM is selective. 13:32.466 --> 13:33.900 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% It's used everywhere. 13:34.000 --> 13:36.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And then in some tributaries they also add the chemical 13:36.166 --> 13:37.833 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% that's in orange, which is niclosamide. 13:37.933 --> 13:40.800 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% I'm not gonna bother with the whole chemical name 13:40.900 --> 13:42.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% 'cause it's really long. 13:42.200 --> 13:44.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Niclosamide is added as a percentage by weight. 13:44.833 --> 13:48.033 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So about 1% by weight with TFM in some tributaries, 13:48.133 --> 13:50.333 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% usually in the really large river systems 13:50.433 --> 13:53.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% or in areas where the water is moving really slowly. 13:53.700 --> 13:55.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So it's not added as often. 13:55.700 --> 13:57.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% It's added in a lower concentration, 13:57.666 --> 13:59.533 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% and that's probably a good thing 13:59.633 --> 14:01.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% because this chemical is an active ingredient 14:02.000 --> 14:04.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% in Bayluscide, which is for killing mollusks. 14:04.300 --> 14:07.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So that kills other kinds of organisms as well. 14:07.233 --> 14:08.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And so it's not gonna be as, 14:08.733 --> 14:11.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it's gonna be more toxic to non-target organisms, 14:11.300 --> 14:13.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% things that they're not trying to harm. 14:13.100 --> 14:16.800 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So I'll talk about both of them, 14:16.900 --> 14:18.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% but it's important to remember 14:18.133 --> 14:20.300 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that TFM is the one that's used the most. 14:20.400 --> 14:22.033 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% It actually degrades the most quickly too, 14:22.133 --> 14:23.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% which is a good thing. 14:24.533 --> 14:26.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So I wanna show you some pictures 14:26.266 --> 14:27.900 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% so you can kind of envision this. 14:28.000 --> 14:29.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I really, before I started working on this, 14:30.000 --> 14:32.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% really didn't have a good appreciation of the scale 14:32.333 --> 14:34.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% of what one of these treatments looked like. 14:34.200 --> 14:35.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% It's really, really impressive, 14:35.533 --> 14:38.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% especially when you're out on a really big river. 14:38.333 --> 14:40.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So, first of all, this is the kind of trailer 14:40.766 --> 14:42.366 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that they carry the chemicals around in. 14:42.466 --> 14:44.566 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And so you can just imagine like driving down 14:44.666 --> 14:46.033 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% the highway next to this trailer. 14:46.133 --> 14:47.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% It's pretty amazing. 14:47.300 --> 14:49.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% You know, they have their fish on the side, 14:49.500 --> 14:51.366 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% the lamprey on the side of a fish, 14:51.466 --> 14:53.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and then all the big sucker mouths on the side. 14:53.933 --> 14:55.033 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% But these are the trailers 14:55.133 --> 14:57.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that they haul chemicals around in. 14:57.133 --> 14:58.333 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% This is a huge operation. 14:58.433 --> 15:00.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So this is from the Manistique River 15:00.100 --> 15:02.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% up in the upper peninsula of Michigan, 15:02.333 --> 15:04.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I guess about a year and a half ago now. 15:05.333 --> 15:07.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I'll show you a map a little later, 15:07.300 --> 15:08.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% but it's such a big operation. 15:08.700 --> 15:10.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% They pretty much filled up every hotel in town 15:10.633 --> 15:11.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% with people working on this. 15:11.633 --> 15:13.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% Like, it's a big deal. 15:14.766 --> 15:16.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And this is kinda what it looks like. 15:16.933 --> 15:18.533 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% So these are toxic chemicals. 15:18.633 --> 15:21.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% You can see on the picture on the left, 15:21.433 --> 15:24.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% you know, it's a toxic chemical, it's a pesticide. 15:24.366 --> 15:27.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% It's labeled toxic with like a skull and crossbones. 15:27.400 --> 15:29.200 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And then, the bigger picture, 15:29.300 --> 15:30.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% there's someone from Fish & Wildlife 15:30.766 --> 15:33.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% that's pumping those chemicals into the river. 15:33.333 --> 15:36.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And I think at that site, this was just a small tributary, 15:36.166 --> 15:38.500 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% it was something like eight or nine of those cans an hour 15:38.600 --> 15:40.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% being pumped into the river, 15:40.600 --> 15:42.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% which is pretty impressive to see. 15:42.500 --> 15:43.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% And then in some cases, 15:43.700 --> 15:45.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% you can actually see it in the river. 15:45.300 --> 15:47.000 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% It's maybe a little hard to see in here, 15:47.100 --> 15:49.666 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% but you can see there's like the little bit of yellow splash 15:49.766 --> 15:51.600 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% where the chemical is being mixed in. 15:52.600 --> 15:54.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then, yeah, it goes and does its thing. 15:54.700 --> 15:56.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And the way that they add it 15:56.100 --> 15:57.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they're trying to get acute toxicity, 15:57.600 --> 16:01.033 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% which means they wanna kill the fish right away. 16:01.133 --> 16:03.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And so they add the chemical 16:03.366 --> 16:04.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% in like an eight or nine hour block, 16:05.066 --> 16:07.200 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and they try to make sure the chemical concentration is 16:07.300 --> 16:08.633 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the same for eight or nine hours 16:08.733 --> 16:10.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and then they turn off the switch 16:10.300 --> 16:12.200 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and they'll come back three or four years later 16:12.300 --> 16:13.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% is kinda how it works. 16:14.033 --> 16:16.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And if you can imagine like a really big river system, 16:16.700 --> 16:18.900 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% like maybe if you have two rivers coming together, 16:19.000 --> 16:21.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% they'll add the chemical and they have it all worked out 16:21.433 --> 16:24.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% so the chemicals come together at the same time. 16:24.533 --> 16:26.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% It's, like I said, a really impressive operation, 16:26.233 --> 16:28.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% and they're actually out there in the field 16:28.233 --> 16:30.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% in real time measuring the concentrations, 16:30.100 --> 16:31.300 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% the amounts in the water, 16:31.400 --> 16:34.333 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% to make sure it's the right amount. 16:34.433 --> 16:36.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% So they're adding what they need to achieve toxicity 16:36.800 --> 16:40.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% but not too much that they harm native, other fish. 16:40.533 --> 16:42.066 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% So, like I said, it's really impressive 16:42.166 --> 16:44.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% and I really didn't appreciate it 16:44.233 --> 16:47.266 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% till I got to go out and see it. 16:47.366 --> 16:51.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So as a chemist and now as an environmental engineer, 16:51.166 --> 16:52.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% you know we put these chemicals in, 16:52.566 --> 16:53.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% there's obviously trade-offs of doing that. 16:54.000 --> 16:56.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% The sea lamprey are a really, you know, 16:56.466 --> 16:58.233 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% big deal and important to control. 16:58.333 --> 17:00.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% But the chemist in me and the engineer in me is like, 17:00.733 --> 17:02.133 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% okay, so what happens to the chemicals 17:02.233 --> 17:04.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% after they've done their thing? 17:04.633 --> 17:06.233 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% Where do they go? 17:07.233 --> 17:10.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And so what we knew when we started this project, 17:10.233 --> 17:12.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% I mean they've been used for a long time 17:12.300 --> 17:14.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and there's been a lot of work done on them, 17:14.300 --> 17:16.233 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% so we knew some things to start. 17:16.333 --> 17:19.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% First of all, neither chemical undergoes hydrolysis. 17:19.300 --> 17:22.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% This is a transformation process that happens 17:22.400 --> 17:24.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% when the chemicals react with water. 17:24.266 --> 17:25.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% A lot of pesticides do this. 17:25.566 --> 17:26.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% These chemicals don't. 17:27.000 --> 17:28.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So they're not gonna spontaneously break down. 17:28.933 --> 17:30.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% They're gonna be pretty stable. 17:30.633 --> 17:31.900 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Neither chemical is volatile, 17:32.000 --> 17:33.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% which means it's not gonna go into the air. 17:34.066 --> 17:35.833 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% It's gonna stay in the water. 17:35.933 --> 17:38.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% Or it can go into the sediment, 17:38.133 --> 17:39.500 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% so into the soil. 17:39.600 --> 17:41.133 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% For niclosamide, the one in orange, 17:41.233 --> 17:42.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% it's a little bit of a bigger chemical, 17:42.833 --> 17:44.000 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so it's gonna be more sticky. 17:44.100 --> 17:47.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% It's gonna associate with the sediment more. 17:47.633 --> 17:50.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Whereas, TFM is gonna pretty much stay in the water. 17:50.633 --> 17:52.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So we're gonna add it to the water 17:52.266 --> 17:53.900 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and it's gonna stay in the water. 17:55.033 --> 17:57.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% They do undergo biological degradation. 17:57.633 --> 18:00.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So some types of bacteria can make them break down 18:00.866 --> 18:02.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% under some conditions. 18:02.300 --> 18:04.300 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And there's some work still being done 18:04.400 --> 18:06.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% to learn more about that process. 18:06.466 --> 18:07.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And then when we started this project, 18:07.866 --> 18:10.633 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% we saw that there were a couple papers suggesting 18:10.733 --> 18:12.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% that degradation by sunlight 18:12.266 --> 18:15.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% or photo degradation was important. 18:15.100 --> 18:16.233 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And, again, this is, yeah, 18:16.333 --> 18:19.033 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% sunlight causing the chemicals to break down. 18:19.133 --> 18:21.900 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And so to tell you a little bit more about that process, 18:22.000 --> 18:25.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% this is my photo chemistry 101. 18:25.300 --> 18:26.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Pretty simple, this is the Manistique 18:26.733 --> 18:28.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% on the one day it was sunny, 18:28.700 --> 18:30.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% which was one of the reasons 18:30.100 --> 18:32.333 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% why we didn't see much photo degradation there it turns out. 18:32.433 --> 18:35.800 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% But the idea here is that we have our sun, 18:35.900 --> 18:37.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% the chemicals absorb light. 18:38.833 --> 18:40.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% I'll show you their spectrum in a minute. 18:40.500 --> 18:42.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% They overlap with the solar spectrum, 18:42.100 --> 18:44.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and it's possible that they can fall apart 18:44.866 --> 18:47.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% into chemicals that, you know, 18:47.100 --> 18:48.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% we actually characterize those 18:48.333 --> 18:49.666 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and we found out that they're ones 18:49.766 --> 18:52.166 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% that are not gonna be as toxic, which is a good thing. 18:52.266 --> 18:53.833 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% And so, I guess, let me show you 18:53.933 --> 18:55.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% a little bit more about what they look like. 18:56.033 --> 18:58.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% So this figure here, 18:58.366 --> 19:00.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% let me walk you through it, is important. 19:00.933 --> 19:03.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So the dark blue line shows the solar spectrum. 19:03.633 --> 19:05.033 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% This is the wavelengths of light 19:05.133 --> 19:06.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% that are coming into the Earth. 19:06.400 --> 19:08.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And so what you can see is that starting 19:08.500 --> 19:10.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% at about 300 nanometers and up, 19:10.433 --> 19:11.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% those are the wavelengths of light 19:11.666 --> 19:13.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that the sunlight that hits our Earth. 19:15.100 --> 19:16.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% The lines in orange and blue are 19:16.766 --> 19:19.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% the absorbent spectra of TFM and niclosamide. 19:20.000 --> 19:21.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% These are the wavelengths of light 19:21.300 --> 19:23.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% that those chemicals absorb. 19:23.300 --> 19:25.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And the main point here is that there's a lot 19:25.400 --> 19:27.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% of overlap between the chemicals 19:27.566 --> 19:30.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% UV-vis spectra and the solar spectrum. 19:30.233 --> 19:31.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And so to put that another way, 19:31.800 --> 19:33.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that means they overlap with the incoming light 19:34.000 --> 19:36.166 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% so they can absorb light 19:36.266 --> 19:38.366 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and they can break down, potentially. 19:39.366 --> 19:41.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% That's sort of the first rule of photo chemistry. 19:41.366 --> 19:42.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% If those two curves didn't overlap, 19:43.000 --> 19:44.100 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% there'd be no possible way 19:44.200 --> 19:46.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% of having photo degradation at all. 19:46.733 --> 19:50.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% So we knew this sort of coming in that they do absorb light. 19:50.800 --> 19:52.700 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% And we also knew a little bit more 19:52.800 --> 19:56.033 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% about their behavior from some older studies, 19:56.133 --> 19:59.400 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% so one from 1981 and one from 2004. 19:59.500 --> 20:01.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And so here what we knew from these works, 20:01.966 --> 20:03.266 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% again there's sort of my cartoon 20:03.366 --> 20:04.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% where we have sunlight reacting 20:04.933 --> 20:07.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% with our two chemicals causing them to break down. 20:07.633 --> 20:10.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% We knew that this process depends on the pH, 20:10.333 --> 20:14.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% so that's like the acidity of your water. 20:14.800 --> 20:18.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Most waters, rivers are gonna be around a pH 20:18.600 --> 20:22.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% between six and eight, usually more like seven or eight, 20:22.333 --> 20:24.233 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so that's like neutral pH. 20:24.333 --> 20:27.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% But if you had the pH higher or pH lower, how quickly 20:27.533 --> 20:30.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% these chemicals are gonna break down is gonna change. 20:30.400 --> 20:33.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% We also knew something about their half-lives 20:33.633 --> 20:35.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And this is a term I'm gonna use quite a bit. 20:35.866 --> 20:38.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And so a half-life is the time it takes 20:38.833 --> 20:40.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% for half of the chemical to go away. 20:40.700 --> 20:41.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And so if you have something 20:42.066 --> 20:43.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that has a half-life of a minute, 20:43.500 --> 20:45.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that means it's gonna go away really quickly, 20:45.800 --> 20:49.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and if it's something with a half-life of five days, 20:49.500 --> 20:50.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% that's gonna take a really long time. 20:51.066 --> 20:52.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So I'm gonna use half-life, again, 20:52.500 --> 20:53.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% as sort of a way to measure 20:53.900 --> 20:56.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% how quickly these chemicals are breaking down. 20:56.266 --> 20:59.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And so we knew, this is actually from the 1981 study, 20:59.166 --> 21:00.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% that that half-life of TFM, 21:00.766 --> 21:04.133 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% and again that's the chemical that's more specific 21:04.233 --> 21:07.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% for the sea lamprey, it's used in higher concentrations. 21:07.800 --> 21:09.433 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% These researchers thought it would go away 21:09.533 --> 21:11.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% on the order of a few days, 21:12.466 --> 21:15.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% so that's kind of a long time. 21:15.200 --> 21:17.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% Whereas niclosamide, the one that isn't used as often, 21:17.933 --> 21:19.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% they said it was gonna go away 21:19.466 --> 21:21.833 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% on the order of seven to 30 hours, 21:21.933 --> 21:24.066 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and that was under their experimental conditions. 21:24.166 --> 21:25.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% So you can think back, 21:25.733 --> 21:28.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% we know when we go from the lab out to real conditions, 21:28.400 --> 21:30.500 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% things are different, and we actually found 21:30.600 --> 21:32.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% that this was quite different in practice. 21:33.766 --> 21:34.866 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% So we knew a little bit. 21:34.966 --> 21:36.266 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% We know enough to say like, okay, 21:36.366 --> 21:37.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% this is probably important. 21:37.533 --> 21:38.766 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% We didn't know much about 21:38.866 --> 21:41.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% what the transformation products were, 21:41.233 --> 21:42.766 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so what they break down into. 21:42.866 --> 21:44.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And this is important to understand 21:44.266 --> 21:46.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% because there aren't very many examples 21:46.566 --> 21:48.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% but there are some where a chemical 21:48.666 --> 21:50.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% undergoes photo degradation 21:50.100 --> 21:51.900 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and it actually forms something that's more toxic 21:52.000 --> 21:53.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% than what you started with, 21:53.800 --> 21:55.766 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so that would not be good. 21:55.866 --> 21:58.000 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So we wanna make sure that once it does break down, 21:58.100 --> 22:00.500 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% it's forming things that aren't gonna be harmful. 22:00.600 --> 22:02.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% So we didn't know that, 22:02.233 --> 22:04.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and no one had ever looked at these two chemicals 22:04.233 --> 22:06.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% under the same conditions before. 22:06.366 --> 22:10.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And there were some room for adding a little bit more here. 22:10.366 --> 22:12.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And we actually learned a lot. 22:12.600 --> 22:15.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So, I mean, you know, you all live in Wisconsin, 22:15.733 --> 22:17.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% you know what it's like, 22:17.200 --> 22:19.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and so we do our experiments in the lab for starters. 22:19.533 --> 22:22.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And this is a picture of our merry-go-round photo reactor, 22:22.933 --> 22:24.300 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% so it's like a little merry-go-round. 22:24.400 --> 22:26.333 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% You can see in the middle, 22:26.433 --> 22:28.633 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% you can see these are all test tubes in here 22:28.733 --> 22:30.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and that the little thing spins around. 22:30.633 --> 22:32.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So that's why it's called a merry-go-round. 22:32.933 --> 22:35.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And on the outside we have all different light bulbs. 22:36.000 --> 22:38.866 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% In this case, we're using light at 365 nanometers, 22:38.966 --> 22:41.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% which is in part of the solar spectrum. 22:41.100 --> 22:43.500 align:left position:40%,start line:83% size:50% And it's fun 'cause it's a black light, 22:43.600 --> 22:45.333 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% so that's pretty much what it is, 22:45.433 --> 22:46.633 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so that's kind of fun too. 22:46.733 --> 22:48.633 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% But yeah, this is how we do our experiments 22:48.733 --> 22:51.066 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% 'cause we can put a whole bunch of test tubes in there, 22:51.166 --> 22:52.700 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and test a lot of different conditions, 22:52.800 --> 22:54.033 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% do a lot of different replicates, 22:54.133 --> 22:55.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and like it's the same every day. 22:55.866 --> 22:57.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% So we can do these experiments 22:57.933 --> 23:00.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% when the weather is like it is today 23:00.300 --> 23:01.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% or in the summer, any time. 23:02.733 --> 23:04.833 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% So we did this and the first thing we looked at 23:04.933 --> 23:07.533 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% was just when we shine this light on these two chemicals, 23:07.633 --> 23:09.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% how fast do they go away? 23:09.533 --> 23:10.866 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% Just, as a first cut, 23:10.966 --> 23:13.533 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% wanting to verify what was already known in the literature. 23:15.466 --> 23:19.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And so, yeah, this is what this figure shows. 23:19.700 --> 23:24.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And so, on the x or y-axis, this is a rate constant, 23:24.700 --> 23:27.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% so this is how quickly it goes away. 23:27.233 --> 23:28.433 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% So things that are higher up, 23:28.533 --> 23:30.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% they're going away quickly, 23:30.133 --> 23:31.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and things that are lower down, 23:31.900 --> 23:33.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% they're going away more slowly. 23:33.133 --> 23:35.133 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And so we can see a couple things. 23:35.233 --> 23:39.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% First, with TFM, and this is all plotted versus pH, 23:39.200 --> 23:40.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% so the acidity of our water. 23:40.733 --> 23:44.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And, again, most waters are gonna be around pH seven. 23:44.166 --> 23:46.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% With TFM, as the pH goes up, 23:46.700 --> 23:48.933 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% the chemical degrades more quickly. 23:49.033 --> 23:52.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And it changes a lot depending on the pH. 23:52.666 --> 23:55.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And niclosamide had the opposite trend. 23:55.400 --> 23:57.166 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So their behavior is gonna be different. 23:57.266 --> 24:00.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So as the pH goes up, TFM is gonna degrade more quickly, 24:00.833 --> 24:03.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% whereas niclosamide is gonna actually slow down. 24:03.766 --> 24:06.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So that was one thing that we knew or we learned. 24:06.366 --> 24:07.700 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And the other thing was that, 24:07.800 --> 24:10.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% like I said, no one had ever looked at these two chemicals 24:10.666 --> 24:11.733 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% under the same conditions before, 24:11.833 --> 24:13.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% even though they're added together 24:13.166 --> 24:15.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% so you'd think it would be good to look at them together. 24:15.900 --> 24:17.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And we can see there's a really big gap 24:18.033 --> 24:20.033 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% between those two curves. 24:20.133 --> 24:22.666 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% And what this means is that TFM is gonna 24:22.766 --> 24:25.533 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% go away much more quickly then niclosamide. 24:26.933 --> 24:30.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And TFM is the one that's used in higher concentrations, 24:30.766 --> 24:32.133 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% it's more selective for the sea lamprey, 24:32.233 --> 24:34.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% and so it goes away much more quickly. 24:34.466 --> 24:38.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% Whereas niclosamide, which is harmful to other organisms 24:38.166 --> 24:40.400 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% like mollusks, is gonna go away much more slowly. 24:40.500 --> 24:43.466 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And this sort of contradicted the earlier study. 24:43.566 --> 24:47.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And that was a big of a surprise, but I think, yeah, 24:47.700 --> 24:48.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% we learned a lot from this. 24:49.066 --> 24:50.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% This was really valuable to find out 24:50.766 --> 24:52.033 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% how quickly they go away. 24:53.033 --> 24:55.533 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% These are our lab conditions. 24:55.633 --> 24:58.366 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And, you know, those black lights are obviously not 24:58.466 --> 24:59.533 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% what sunlight looks like, 24:59.633 --> 25:01.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% but we can do the math and kind of calculate 25:01.700 --> 25:02.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% how quickly these will go away 25:02.966 --> 25:04.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% under actual sunlight conditions. 25:05.600 --> 25:08.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And so I apologize for showing a table, 25:08.466 --> 25:10.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% but it kind of gets the point across. 25:10.166 --> 25:12.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% So what I'm showing here is the half-life. 25:12.666 --> 25:14.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So, again, a smaller number is better. 25:14.800 --> 25:16.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% We wanna have a half-life being short 25:16.500 --> 25:18.400 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% 'cause we want it to go away. 25:18.500 --> 25:21.333 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% For TFM, looking just at the surface of the water, 25:21.433 --> 25:23.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% like if you're looking at the very top 25:23.433 --> 25:24.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that's getting the most sunlight, 25:24.866 --> 25:27.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% it's gonna go away on the order of a couple hours. 25:27.933 --> 25:30.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Whereas niclosamide, even at the very surface of the water, 25:30.433 --> 25:34.300 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% it's gonna go away on the order of a day or longer. 25:34.400 --> 25:35.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% And this is assuming 25:35.600 --> 25:38.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that the sun is on at noon all the time, 25:38.300 --> 25:39.900 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% which is obviously not accurate. 25:40.900 --> 25:42.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% As you can imagine, though, 25:42.300 --> 25:44.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% this is looking at the surface of the water, 25:44.300 --> 25:46.700 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% and as you go deeper in the water, obviously it gets darker. 25:46.800 --> 25:48.033 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And it turns out the light 25:48.133 --> 25:50.233 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% actually drops off really quickly. 25:50.333 --> 25:54.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And so if we do the same calculation over, 25:54.400 --> 25:56.266 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% like, 55 centimeters, 25:56.366 --> 25:58.300 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% now we can see TFM is gonna go away 25:58.400 --> 26:02.066 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% on the order of 20 hours, or something like that, 26:02.166 --> 26:04.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and niclosamide we're talking hundreds of days, 26:06.166 --> 26:08.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% which is, you know, obviously the water is not gonna stay 26:08.733 --> 26:10.033 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% in the river for hundreds of days 26:10.133 --> 26:12.300 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so that's not very practical. 26:12.400 --> 26:13.966 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% So what we learned from this, 26:14.066 --> 26:15.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and I'll show you the data, 26:15.633 --> 26:16.966 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% a little more data on niclosamide, 26:17.066 --> 26:18.300 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% but we basically learned that 26:18.400 --> 26:20.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% from a photo chemical degradation perspective 26:20.800 --> 26:24.300 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that's really probably only gonna be important for TFM. 26:24.400 --> 26:27.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And that's the one that's more selective, 26:27.200 --> 26:30.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% it's less persistent, and it's added pretty much everywhere. 26:30.600 --> 26:34.866 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% Whereas niclosamide, which is less selective, 26:34.966 --> 26:37.600 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% it's gonna stick around a lot longer in the rivers. 26:39.633 --> 26:41.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So we know about the rates, 26:41.866 --> 26:43.433 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and we can make good calculations 26:43.533 --> 26:45.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% about how quickly they're gonna go away. 26:45.533 --> 26:48.433 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% The other question is to figure out what they degrade into. 26:48.533 --> 26:49.900 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% For both of them, 26:50.000 --> 26:52.166 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% we found that they're gonna degrade into things 26:52.266 --> 26:53.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% that are gonna be less harmful, 26:53.733 --> 26:54.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% which is a really good thing 26:55.066 --> 26:57.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% and that was really good to learn. 26:57.333 --> 27:02.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And so, believe it or not, I did try to simplify this a lot 27:02.200 --> 27:03.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% 'cause it's really complicated, 27:04.066 --> 27:06.433 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% but the basic idea is we start with TFM. 27:06.533 --> 27:10.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% The main product is this chemical called gentisic acid. 27:12.166 --> 27:16.033 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And there, I think we detected, we quantified, 27:16.133 --> 27:17.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I don't know, maybe four or five other chemicals, 27:18.066 --> 27:19.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and we identified a lot of other chemicals. 27:20.066 --> 27:22.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% It basically makes a whole soup of different things. 27:23.066 --> 27:26.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% But what's important is that if we look at TFM, 27:26.900 --> 27:30.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% it has this fluorine in it, that's the F, 27:30.833 --> 27:33.166 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and this NO2 group, the nitro group. 27:33.266 --> 27:34.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% Those are both signs 27:34.500 --> 27:36.000 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that a chemical is gonna be really persistent. 27:36.100 --> 27:37.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And I'll show you in a minute that things 27:37.900 --> 27:39.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that have fluorine or chlorine on them are really common 27:40.033 --> 27:42.400 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in a lot of contaminants that we worry about. 27:42.500 --> 27:44.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So the fact that we're losing those chemicals 27:44.366 --> 27:45.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% is a really good thing. 27:46.766 --> 27:48.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And to show you some more data 27:48.533 --> 27:50.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% what this actually looks like in practice, 27:50.700 --> 27:52.066 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% we did a bunch of modeling 27:52.166 --> 27:54.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and we could see that the blue is showing TFM going away. 27:55.066 --> 27:58.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% We could see gentisic acid forms, 27:58.733 --> 28:00.100 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% and it goes away as well 28:00.200 --> 28:02.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% 'cause it also undergoes photo degradation. 28:02.433 --> 28:03.833 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And that's part of what makes 28:03.933 --> 28:06.766 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% understanding the chemical mechanism really complicated is 28:06.866 --> 28:09.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% because all of the products also photo degrade, 28:09.733 --> 28:11.633 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% so they form and then they go away. 28:11.733 --> 28:13.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And so we have a whole bunch at the bottom 28:13.800 --> 28:15.066 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that are really low concentrations 28:15.166 --> 28:17.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because they form and they go away so quickly. 28:18.633 --> 28:20.533 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And then what I think is really important 28:20.633 --> 28:24.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and that I wanna emphasize is that we do form fluoride. 28:24.133 --> 28:25.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So that's like just a salt, 28:25.366 --> 28:27.033 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% that's not harmful at all. 28:27.133 --> 28:28.400 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% But we're losing our fluoride 28:28.500 --> 28:31.233 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% from our floral methyl group here. 28:31.333 --> 28:34.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:77% size:67.5% And we can actually see production of fluoride coming in, 28:34.866 --> 28:36.433 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% which is really a good thing. 28:37.566 --> 28:39.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Niclosamide, I'm not even gonna show you any 28:39.366 --> 28:41.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% of the organic products 'cause it's like a mess. 28:41.666 --> 28:42.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% We quantified, I think, 28:42.933 --> 28:44.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% something like nine different chemicals 28:44.166 --> 28:46.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and then identified the molecular ways 28:46.966 --> 28:48.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% of something like 30 more. 28:48.366 --> 28:50.433 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% It basically, the chemical falls apart right 28:50.533 --> 28:51.866 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% in the middle of the chemical 28:51.966 --> 28:53.933 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and it makes a whole bunch of different things, 28:54.033 --> 28:55.466 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% but, again, it's losing the chlorines, 28:55.566 --> 28:57.566 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% which I circled in red up there. 28:57.666 --> 29:02.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So we can see the formation of chloride here. 29:03.933 --> 29:05.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So it's losing those two chlorine atoms. 29:05.666 --> 29:07.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then we can see the formation of nitrate 29:07.633 --> 29:09.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% which is coming from this nitro group here, 29:10.033 --> 29:11.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and that's a really good thing. 29:11.466 --> 29:16.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Those chemicals, the chlorine and fluorine are markers 29:17.133 --> 29:18.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% of really kind of persistent chemicals. 29:18.600 --> 29:20.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I actually wanna take a little bit of an aside 29:20.600 --> 29:22.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and kinda show you a little bit about that. 29:22.600 --> 29:26.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So the halogen group is in the seventh group 29:26.766 --> 29:27.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% of the periodic table. 29:28.033 --> 29:29.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% It's the one I have circled in the box. 29:29.833 --> 29:32.333 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So we start with fluorine, chlorine, bromine, iodine. 29:32.433 --> 29:35.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% These are really electronegative atoms, 29:35.366 --> 29:37.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and they form really polar bonds. 29:37.366 --> 29:38.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And it's really kind of hard 29:38.766 --> 29:41.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% to break those carbon halogen bonds. 29:41.266 --> 29:43.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And we see these chemicals, 29:43.566 --> 29:47.233 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% these halogens in a lot of chemicals 29:47.333 --> 29:49.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that are like kind of our classic contaminants 29:49.366 --> 29:51.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% or even newer contaminants. 29:51.633 --> 29:53.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Whenever you see halogens in a chemical, 29:53.166 --> 29:54.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% you're like that's probably not a good thing. 29:54.833 --> 29:55.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% It's usually gonna be toxic. 29:56.033 --> 29:57.633 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% It's usually gonna be persistent. 29:57.733 --> 30:01.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And so I can give you a few examples here. 30:01.300 --> 30:05.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:77% size:67.5% So there's a lot of good examples of chlorinated compounds. 30:06.033 --> 30:08.100 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% So a good one is DDT. 30:08.200 --> 30:10.100 align:left position:17.5%,start line:89% size:72.5% Who's heard of DDT before? 30:10.200 --> 30:11.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Probably everyone, right? 30:11.366 --> 30:13.033 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% So it was around a long time. 30:13.133 --> 30:15.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We don't use it anymore, which is a good thing. 30:15.233 --> 30:16.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% But this is the insecticide 30:17.033 --> 30:19.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% that Rachel Carson wrote Silent Spring about. 30:19.366 --> 30:22.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So Silent Spring, the title refers to a spring 30:22.366 --> 30:23.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% where there's no birds 30:23.900 --> 30:26.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% because this insecticide has killed all the birds. 30:26.766 --> 30:28.333 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So this is a really harmful one. 30:29.766 --> 30:33.233 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% PCBs, polychlorinated biphenyls, these are used in coolants. 30:33.333 --> 30:35.633 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% They're also not used anymore but they're really persistent. 30:35.733 --> 30:38.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% You can still find them in the sediments of the Great Lakes 30:38.300 --> 30:41.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% because these really stick to the sediments. 30:41.566 --> 30:43.133 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% They're still around. 30:43.233 --> 30:45.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% They last a really long time. 30:45.533 --> 30:48.433 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% PCE, this is used in dry cleaning. 30:48.533 --> 30:52.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% A lot of times dry cleaning fluid leaks underground, 30:52.166 --> 30:54.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% so we find these chlorinated solvents 30:54.100 --> 30:55.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% in our groundwater frequently, 30:55.333 --> 30:56.766 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% and they're also really persistent. 30:56.866 --> 30:59.666 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% These chemicals are really common in the environment. 30:59.766 --> 31:00.966 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% But you know, you can see 31:01.066 --> 31:03.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% they all have those halogens in them. 31:03.166 --> 31:05.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% These are kind of what I call classic contaminants, 31:05.733 --> 31:08.633 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and then they're also emerging contaminants. 31:08.733 --> 31:10.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% I don't know why we call them emerging contaminants. 31:10.733 --> 31:12.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% We've been studying them for a while now. 31:12.366 --> 31:14.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% But these are chemicals that we, people in my area 31:14.833 --> 31:17.700 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% are really interested in looking at right now. 31:17.800 --> 31:20.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And so we can show examples of brominated compounds 31:20.300 --> 31:24.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% like this polybrominated diphenyl ether, PBDE. 31:24.766 --> 31:25.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% These are flame retardants. 31:26.033 --> 31:28.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% These are added to like couches and furniture 31:28.533 --> 31:29.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% and things like that 31:29.800 --> 31:31.700 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% at kind of shockingly high concentrations. 31:31.800 --> 31:33.300 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% I don't know, if you look at them 31:33.400 --> 31:34.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% it looks a lot like the PCBs 31:34.800 --> 31:36.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% except they have that oxygen there in the middle. 31:36.600 --> 31:39.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% But it's, I don't know why we thought this was a good idea 31:39.200 --> 31:41.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% I don't know because they're pretty toxic 31:41.466 --> 31:44.366 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and they're really persistent and hard to break down. 31:44.466 --> 31:45.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And the fluorinated compounds, 31:45.733 --> 31:48.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% I put up a couple, PFOS and PFOA. 31:48.366 --> 31:50.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% These are really interesting looking chemicals. 31:50.333 --> 31:52.166 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% These are used, or were used, 31:52.266 --> 31:54.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% they've just phased them out in like Scotchgard 31:54.933 --> 31:56.200 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% and things like that. 31:57.366 --> 32:00.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:77% size:67.5% They're also used in firefighting foams like at airports. 32:00.933 --> 32:03.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And these are, you'll see, if you pay attention to these, 32:03.366 --> 32:05.000 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% you'll see these in the news a lot 32:05.100 --> 32:07.000 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% for contaminating groundwater recently. 32:07.100 --> 32:09.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% These are sort of a hot topic at the moment. 32:09.300 --> 32:11.533 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% But I wanted to just talk about this 32:11.633 --> 32:13.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% because if we think about the two chemicals 32:13.800 --> 32:16.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% that we've been spreading, these lampricides, you know, 32:16.833 --> 32:18.966 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% niclosamide has two chlorine atoms on it, 32:20.033 --> 32:22.833 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% TFM has three fluorine atoms on it, 32:22.933 --> 32:25.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and the fact that those halogens are going away 32:25.733 --> 32:27.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% when the chemical does undergo photo degradation 32:28.066 --> 32:29.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% is a really good thing. 32:29.666 --> 32:32.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% The chemicals that it turns into are gonna be ones 32:32.466 --> 32:35.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% that are gonna be easy for bacteria to eat. 32:35.733 --> 32:37.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% They're basically food at that point. 32:37.666 --> 32:39.400 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% They look pretty tasty to bacteria. 32:39.500 --> 32:41.633 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% So once they lose these halogen groups, 32:41.733 --> 32:44.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% they're not gonna be things that we're worried about. 32:45.033 --> 32:46.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% So even though the rates, especially for niclosamide, 32:47.033 --> 32:48.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% are quite slow, once they do break down 32:48.900 --> 32:50.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% they're gonna form things that we're not concerned about. 32:50.766 --> 32:53.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And so that was really good to learn that. 32:55.100 --> 32:59.066 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% Okay, so we did this work looking at what happens 32:59.166 --> 33:01.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% in the lab where things are very well behaved. 33:01.466 --> 33:05.533 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% And then we wanted to find out, does it happen in the field? 33:06.733 --> 33:08.600 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% And sort of like I said at the top, 33:08.700 --> 33:09.866 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% you know, hindsight is 20/20. 33:09.966 --> 33:11.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% We might have picked different sites 33:11.200 --> 33:13.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% if we'd done this again, but it was, you know, 33:13.200 --> 33:15.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% it's all sort of happening at the same time. 33:15.366 --> 33:17.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And so we went to three different sites, 33:18.033 --> 33:22.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% two in 2015 and two in 2016. 33:22.200 --> 33:26.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And so, in 2015, these were tributaries that are, 33:26.866 --> 33:28.933 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% they're actually, this bottom map shows 33:29.033 --> 33:30.600 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% all three sites on the same scale. 33:30.700 --> 33:32.733 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So here are the first two that I'm gonna show. 33:32.833 --> 33:33.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% They're really tiny. 33:33.833 --> 33:35.233 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% They barely show up there at all. 33:35.333 --> 33:37.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And then here's the Manistique, which is huge. 33:37.333 --> 33:39.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And this is the one that I said 33:39.500 --> 33:41.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they filled up like every hotel in town 33:41.666 --> 33:43.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% because there's so many people working on this. 33:43.800 --> 33:46.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% For these two small sites, these are really simple. 33:46.233 --> 33:48.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Basically what they're doing up here at this upper, 33:48.666 --> 33:51.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% where that green dot is, they add the chemical once 33:51.766 --> 33:53.600 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and then the chemical just goes downstream. 33:53.700 --> 33:55.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So they just add it in and that's it. 33:55.533 --> 33:57.433 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% They just leave it alone. 33:57.533 --> 34:00.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So what we did here on these two sites, 34:00.200 --> 34:02.366 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% we sampled just downstream 34:02.466 --> 34:03.900 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% This is our upstream site. 34:04.000 --> 34:05.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% We sampled just downstream of where they added the chemical. 34:06.000 --> 34:07.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then we sampled as close as we could get 34:08.000 --> 34:09.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% to the river mouth. 34:09.233 --> 34:12.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And what we also did in parallel to this, 34:12.100 --> 34:16.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% we added sodium bromide, which is a salt, it's a tracer. 34:16.366 --> 34:19.133 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And so this basically let's us quantify 34:19.233 --> 34:21.133 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% or measure how much water, 34:21.233 --> 34:23.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% where the water is going in this system. 34:23.266 --> 34:25.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And so we measured the bromide at the top 34:25.966 --> 34:28.566 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and the TFM at the top of the water, the reach, 34:28.666 --> 34:30.800 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% and then the bromide and the TFM at the bottom, 34:30.900 --> 34:33.333 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% and we could calculate how much was lost and see, 34:33.433 --> 34:35.833 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% like, do we see any loss due to photo degradation? 34:35.933 --> 34:38.866 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And so we did that at these two sites. 34:38.966 --> 34:41.666 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% I'll say a little bit more about that in a minute. 34:41.766 --> 34:45.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And then, in 2016, we went out on the Manistique River, 34:45.633 --> 34:47.366 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% and this is a huge river. 34:47.466 --> 34:49.366 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% Every one of these, I know it's a little small, 34:49.466 --> 34:51.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% but every one of these green points is a point 34:51.566 --> 34:53.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% where they're adding chemical. 34:53.366 --> 34:55.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And, again, think of that they're wanting to get 34:55.233 --> 34:57.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% all the chemical, by the time it makes its way to the mouth, 34:57.833 --> 34:59.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% all the chemical and all this side tributaries 35:00.033 --> 35:02.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% are wanting to come together at the exact same time 35:02.600 --> 35:03.700 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% in the exact same concentration. 35:03.800 --> 35:06.600 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% So it's an amazing operation. 35:06.700 --> 35:09.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then every white dot on the figure, 35:09.666 --> 35:11.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that's where they're out and they're actually measuring 35:11.566 --> 35:14.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% the chemical concentration in real time. 35:14.800 --> 35:17.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And if the chemical concentration is too low, 35:17.333 --> 35:19.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they're gonna add a little bit more in 35:19.466 --> 35:22.433 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% to make sure the concentration stays the same. 35:22.533 --> 35:25.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So this is a huge operation. 35:25.500 --> 35:27.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And so for the first, the two smaller tributaries, 35:27.700 --> 35:29.166 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% they only added TFM. 35:29.266 --> 35:31.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% TFM is often added only by itself. 35:31.966 --> 35:33.366 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And in this bigger system, 35:33.466 --> 35:36.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% they're adding both TFM and niclosamide together, 35:36.833 --> 35:39.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% so they're measuring both in the field. 35:39.133 --> 35:40.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So I'm gonna show you the data 35:40.833 --> 35:43.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% from these first two smaller tributaries first. 35:44.800 --> 35:47.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And, again, I'll show you some more pictures. 35:47.666 --> 35:49.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% This is someone from Fish & Wildlife 35:49.500 --> 35:51.200 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% who's actually setting up to put the chemical in. 35:51.300 --> 35:53.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% You can see this is a really small tributary. 35:54.033 --> 35:57.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% You can kind of see it's maybe a meter or so across. 35:58.033 --> 36:02.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Down here on the bottom right there's this can of TFM 36:02.500 --> 36:04.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and this toolbox that's basically a pump, 36:04.833 --> 36:06.433 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and it's pumping the chemical out. 36:06.533 --> 36:09.133 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% He has like the little drip line. 36:09.233 --> 36:10.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% They sort of picked a reach 36:10.433 --> 36:11.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% where there's a little bit of turbulence 36:11.833 --> 36:13.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% to kind of mix up the chemical 36:13.233 --> 36:14.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and get it distributed across the river, 36:14.633 --> 36:15.666 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% but that's pretty much it. 36:15.766 --> 36:16.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% He's gonna set this up, 36:16.900 --> 36:18.800 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% he's gonna let it run for about 10 hours, 36:18.900 --> 36:20.800 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and then that's it for this site. 36:20.900 --> 36:22.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% We added, we actually went, 36:22.100 --> 36:23.800 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% we had to do it on a different day 36:23.900 --> 36:25.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% because they wouldn't let us add the bromide 36:25.500 --> 36:26.566 align:left position:30%,start line:89% size:60% on the same day. 36:26.666 --> 36:27.966 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% We went back the next day. 36:28.066 --> 36:31.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% Here, that's, yeah, very fancy field equipment, 36:31.433 --> 36:33.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% a trash can which we filled up with this salt, 36:33.766 --> 36:36.466 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% this sodium bromide, mixed it up with a big stick, 36:36.566 --> 36:38.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and then poured it in the river all at one shot. 36:40.333 --> 36:44.666 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And then we had our poor students downstream 36:44.766 --> 36:47.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% rapidly collecting samples as quick as you could 36:47.866 --> 36:50.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% so we could really capture those chemicals 36:50.200 --> 36:51.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% and see what happened. 36:52.066 --> 36:55.466 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And so this is what the data looks like. 36:55.566 --> 36:57.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So on the top, this top panel shows 36:58.000 --> 37:01.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% the TFM concentration and the bottom shows bromide. 37:01.866 --> 37:03.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So the lighter colored blue, 37:03.333 --> 37:06.366 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% this is the TFM concentration measured right downstream 37:06.466 --> 37:07.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% of where they added the chemical. 37:08.033 --> 37:09.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And you can see, okay, nothing's happening. 37:09.533 --> 37:12.000 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% Well, I guess my students slept in a little late that day, 37:12.100 --> 37:13.400 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% they didn't get those first couple points. 37:13.500 --> 37:15.066 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% But you can imagine nothing's happening, 37:15.166 --> 37:16.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and then they turn the chemical on, 37:16.866 --> 37:18.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% it's staying steady concentration, 37:18.800 --> 37:21.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% around 20 micromolar for about 10 hours, 37:21.466 --> 37:23.100 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% and then they stop pumping in the chemical, 37:23.200 --> 37:25.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and then it drops off again. 37:25.433 --> 37:28.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And then we went downstream as far as we can, 37:28.266 --> 37:29.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and we measure the chemical. 37:29.733 --> 37:32.800 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% We can see it's starting to come up, concentration's lower. 37:32.900 --> 37:34.666 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% It lasts for about the same time. 37:34.766 --> 37:36.366 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And then the chemical goes away again 37:36.466 --> 37:37.600 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% once they stop adding it. 37:37.700 --> 37:39.933 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So then we did the same thing with bromide, 37:40.033 --> 37:41.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% and this is one that we, like, 37:41.466 --> 37:43.800 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% dumped the trashcan of chemical into the water. 37:44.800 --> 37:47.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And this is a salt, it's just a harmless tracer. 37:47.366 --> 37:48.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% When we measured downstream, 37:48.700 --> 37:51.100 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% you can see we see a huge spike of the chemical 37:51.200 --> 37:53.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% from dumping in the whole big bucket. 37:53.433 --> 37:55.233 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% And that's, you know, 37:55.333 --> 37:59.666 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% reaching concentrations of around 700 micromolar. 37:59.766 --> 38:01.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And then, looking downstream, you know, 38:01.600 --> 38:03.000 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% things sort of spread out. 38:03.100 --> 38:05.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% You know, things aren't moving down in a nice, neat block. 38:05.366 --> 38:06.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% Things diffuse a little bit. 38:06.866 --> 38:09.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% But we can measure the chemical at the bottom. 38:09.366 --> 38:11.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And this is really useful to us actually 38:11.600 --> 38:14.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% to collect the data at the top and the bottom 38:14.400 --> 38:16.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% 'cause we can do is basically calculate the area 38:16.900 --> 38:18.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% under that curve and calculate 38:18.300 --> 38:20.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% how much mass we had at the beginning. 38:20.533 --> 38:22.200 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% Like what was our total mass added 38:22.300 --> 38:24.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% versus our total mass that we're measuring at the bottom. 38:25.033 --> 38:26.600 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% And the reason we did the tracer is 38:26.700 --> 38:28.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% because the sodium bromide tracer we know 38:29.000 --> 38:30.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% isn't gonna undergo any chemical reactions. 38:31.033 --> 38:33.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% It's only gonna move with the water. 38:33.300 --> 38:37.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And we know if you imagine water flowing downstream, 38:37.666 --> 38:40.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% some of it can actually go into the ground, 38:40.200 --> 38:43.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% into the hyporheic zone, and that's actually what we saw. 38:44.366 --> 38:45.833 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% So what we saw was about, 38:45.933 --> 38:48.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% looking at the tracer and comparing the areas 38:48.200 --> 38:50.766 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% under the curve, we lost about 30% of the mass 38:50.866 --> 38:53.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that we added to this exchange with the groundwater. 38:55.233 --> 38:57.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% Looking at the areas under the TFM curve, 38:57.100 --> 38:59.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% we saw we lost 34% of the TFM. 38:59.900 --> 39:02.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And with an error, those are pretty much the same number. 39:02.933 --> 39:05.600 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And so what this means is that any TFM that we lost, 39:05.700 --> 39:07.733 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% any of the lampricide that we didn't measure 39:07.833 --> 39:09.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% at the bottom that we added, 39:09.300 --> 39:11.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that's because it's also going into the groundwater, 39:11.300 --> 39:14.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% the same as we saw with the sodium bromide salt. 39:14.633 --> 39:16.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And then, because we had done all the work 39:16.966 --> 39:19.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% to identify all the possible degradation products, 39:19.833 --> 39:23.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% we could look for them, and we didn't find any. 39:23.500 --> 39:27.133 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So both of those two things together told us, like, okay, 39:27.233 --> 39:29.033 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% we didn't see any photo degradation. 39:30.433 --> 39:33.233 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% Well, okay, but we're sure that we didn't see it. 39:33.333 --> 39:36.200 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% We have those two ways of sort of telling that. 39:36.300 --> 39:37.833 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% Looking at Sullivan Creek, 39:37.933 --> 39:40.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% the other really small tributary is the same. 39:40.733 --> 39:42.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% You can see what it looks like. 39:42.166 --> 39:44.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% It's a little bit of a bigger, 39:44.166 --> 39:45.933 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% a little bit bigger, but it's still pretty small, 39:46.033 --> 39:49.366 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% really forested and really beautiful up there on the UP. 39:50.366 --> 39:51.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And the data is really similar 39:51.933 --> 39:55.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% where we have the top panel that shows TFM, you know, 39:55.500 --> 39:57.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% higher concentration of the upper stream, 39:57.900 --> 40:00.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and then it decreases on the lower stream. 40:00.600 --> 40:04.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And then we did our sodium bromide tracer test again here. 40:04.233 --> 40:06.166 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% And I didn't put the percentages up there, but, again, 40:06.266 --> 40:07.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they were basically about the same 40:07.933 --> 40:10.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% where the amount of salt that we lost in our tracer test 40:10.933 --> 40:13.166 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% was the same as the amount of TFM that we lost 40:13.266 --> 40:16.166 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% in the actual chemical application of lampricide. 40:16.266 --> 40:19.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And so, again, we didn't see any photo products here. 40:20.166 --> 40:21.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And so we're like, okay, 40:21.466 --> 40:23.366 align:left position:27.5%,start line:83% size:62.5% we didn't see any photo degradation. 40:23.466 --> 40:26.633 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% At the same time we sort of worked out all of our, you know, 40:26.733 --> 40:28.633 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% measurements in the lab, and we're all like, okay, 40:28.733 --> 40:30.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% well, we probably should have known that 40:30.600 --> 40:31.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% because the residence time, 40:31.866 --> 40:33.400 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% so the amount of time that it takes 40:33.500 --> 40:34.900 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% from when we add the chemical 40:35.000 --> 40:37.466 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% to when it reaches the Great Lake, Lake Superior, 40:37.566 --> 40:40.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% is about one to four hours, 40:40.266 --> 40:42.366 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% depending on which river we're talking about. 40:42.466 --> 40:44.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And our half-life, so the time it takes for the chemical, 40:44.666 --> 40:47.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% half of it to go away is 12 hours. 40:47.366 --> 40:50.866 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% So in retrospect, that's not really a surprise. 40:50.966 --> 40:52.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% We probably should have known that. 40:52.666 --> 40:55.366 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% But, like I said, that's part of the challenge. 40:55.466 --> 40:59.433 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% And so we're like okay, well, this river was really small. 41:00.433 --> 41:02.266 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% We want something where the chemical is gonna be 41:02.366 --> 41:03.966 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% in the river for a really long time. 41:04.066 --> 41:07.966 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% And so we went to basically one of the biggest river systems 41:08.066 --> 41:10.566 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% that they treat, which is the Manistique River. 41:12.466 --> 41:14.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And I showed you this map before, and, again, 41:14.633 --> 41:16.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% with the Sullivan Creek and Carpenter Creek, 41:16.333 --> 41:17.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% those two little rivers I showed you, 41:18.033 --> 41:19.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I guess creeks, they don't really count as rivers. 41:19.833 --> 41:20.900 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% They're really small. 41:21.000 --> 41:22.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Those are up there on the same scale. 41:22.666 --> 41:24.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And then here's our Manistique River which is, 41:24.733 --> 41:26.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I mean it pretty much goes across the whole UP. 41:26.733 --> 41:28.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% It's really big, and it's a really wide river. 41:29.066 --> 41:30.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% It's not as shaded. 41:30.900 --> 41:32.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And the chemical from the time it's added 41:32.666 --> 41:34.166 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% at the most furthest upstream point 41:34.266 --> 41:37.966 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% to the time it makes it all the way down is over three days. 41:38.066 --> 41:39.766 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% So we're like, okay, three days, 41:39.866 --> 41:41.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% you know, we've done our math, you know, 41:41.566 --> 41:43.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% we think you should see something here. 41:43.400 --> 41:46.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And so what we did here, we didn't sample the whole thing. 41:46.133 --> 41:47.333 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% This was a huge operation. 41:47.433 --> 41:50.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% We sampled it where all the blue triangles are. 41:50.100 --> 41:51.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And so we could basically follow the chemical block 41:51.933 --> 41:53.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% as it was moving downstream. 41:54.733 --> 41:56.300 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% And one thing to remember here is 41:56.400 --> 41:58.166 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% that they're working really hard 41:58.266 --> 41:59.766 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% to make sure the chemical concentration is 41:59.866 --> 42:01.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% the same throughout the whole river. 42:02.000 --> 42:03.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% Again, at all those white dots 42:03.233 --> 42:05.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they're actually out in the field measuring it 42:05.933 --> 42:07.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and then adding more chemical as needed. 42:08.933 --> 42:10.333 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So to show you some more pictures 42:10.433 --> 42:13.100 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% of what this river looks like. 42:13.200 --> 42:14.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% First we're gonna look at the Cookson Bridge, 42:14.833 --> 42:16.733 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% which is the site we have labeled here M1. 42:16.833 --> 42:20.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% This was the furthest upstream site that we sampled. 42:20.766 --> 42:22.866 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% You can see this is a really, really wide river. 42:22.966 --> 42:25.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% There's a whole bridge across this. 42:25.333 --> 42:27.833 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% What they did, basically, at this site, 42:27.933 --> 42:29.133 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% this was a boosting site. 42:29.233 --> 42:30.700 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So they were actually there measuring 42:30.800 --> 42:32.366 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% the chemical concentration and saying like 42:32.466 --> 42:33.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% okay, it's a little lower than we want. 42:34.066 --> 42:35.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So they're adding in a little bit more 42:35.733 --> 42:38.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% to kind of bump it up. 42:38.166 --> 42:40.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So they had the chemicals here at the bottom. 42:40.700 --> 42:43.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% There's a pump, and then they have this drip line that they, 42:43.500 --> 42:45.500 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% I think the Fish & Wildlife actually 42:45.600 --> 42:47.966 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% in this picture is trying to get this drip line 42:48.066 --> 42:50.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% across the river, they could drip the chemical in. 42:51.766 --> 42:53.766 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So that's what they were doing there. 42:53.866 --> 42:55.566 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And then there's my student, Megan. 42:55.666 --> 42:57.800 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% We were, you know, sampling over the bridge, 42:57.900 --> 43:00.466 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% throwing in a can or a bucket and pulling up a sample. 43:00.566 --> 43:01.800 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And she's holding a big sonde, 43:01.900 --> 43:03.733 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% which is this big instrument, 43:03.833 --> 43:05.700 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% it has a bunch of measures, temperature, pH, 43:05.800 --> 43:07.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and a whole bunch of things in real time. 43:07.833 --> 43:09.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% So we're doing a bunch of measurements there 43:09.500 --> 43:11.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% off the side of the bridge. 43:11.633 --> 43:13.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And then this was like, so I'm a chemist. 43:13.833 --> 43:15.200 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% I like to stay in the lab. 43:15.300 --> 43:16.533 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% I don't like to do fieldwork. 43:16.633 --> 43:17.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% But this was really nice fieldwork 43:17.833 --> 43:19.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% because the lab kind of came to us. 43:19.733 --> 43:24.300 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% And so this is a Fish & Wildlife mobile analysis trailer, 43:24.400 --> 43:26.333 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% which was really nice 'cause this was midnight 43:26.433 --> 43:28.333 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% in the pouring down rain so it was really nice 43:28.433 --> 43:30.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% to have a nice place to go inside. 43:30.533 --> 43:31.900 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% But they have these, like, 43:32.000 --> 43:33.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% trailers that are basically like mobile laboratories 43:33.466 --> 43:35.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that they take out on these big field sites, 43:35.366 --> 43:37.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and they're actually measuring these chemicals 43:37.833 --> 43:39.833 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% like in real time. 43:39.933 --> 43:42.833 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% This one, this instrument here, this is a UV spectrometer. 43:42.933 --> 43:44.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% This is for measuring TFM. 43:44.366 --> 43:46.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% It's in a higher concentration so they basically just, 43:46.566 --> 43:47.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% it basically takes advantage 43:47.933 --> 43:49.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% of that UV-vis spectra that I showed you. 43:49.800 --> 43:52.333 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% They shine light on it, they can measure the concentration. 43:52.433 --> 43:54.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And then this is a more, a fancier instrument. 43:55.066 --> 43:56.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% It's a high performance liquid chromatograph. 43:56.800 --> 43:58.166 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% This is for measuring niclosamide. 43:58.266 --> 43:59.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% And so Steve Lantz, 43:59.433 --> 44:02.300 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% I showed you a picture of him at the beginning, 44:02.400 --> 44:05.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% he was out there in the middle of the night 44:05.333 --> 44:06.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% measuring the chemical concentration, 44:06.666 --> 44:09.000 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% making sure that what they were adding was right, 44:09.100 --> 44:11.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% and there was a couple poor guys in boats 44:11.733 --> 44:13.000 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% in the pouring down rain downstream 44:13.100 --> 44:14.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% collecting samples and bringing them back. 44:14.666 --> 44:18.466 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% And you can just imagine it was a good bonding experience, 44:18.566 --> 44:19.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% being out there for it. 44:21.600 --> 44:24.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% But it was pretty interesting to see. 44:24.366 --> 44:26.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And this is what the data looks like. 44:26.233 --> 44:28.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% So let me walk you through it. 44:28.433 --> 44:30.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% The top is TFM, the bottom is niclosamide. 44:31.966 --> 44:33.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% In this we're looking over several days. 44:33.966 --> 44:36.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Again, remember, this is a multi-day treatment process. 44:36.500 --> 44:38.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% It lasts a really long time. 44:38.366 --> 44:40.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So we have, this is our first site. 44:40.866 --> 44:42.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% We can measure the TFM, 44:42.233 --> 44:44.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and we're basically following that chemical block 44:44.500 --> 44:47.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% kinda as it moves downstream what's going on. 44:47.766 --> 44:50.466 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And then niclosamide is at a lower concentration. 44:50.566 --> 44:51.800 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% It's a lot messier and that's 44:51.900 --> 44:53.300 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% because it sticks to the sediments 44:53.400 --> 44:56.433 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and so it's a little bit less behaved, less well behaved. 44:56.533 --> 44:58.500 align:left position:32.5%,start line:89% size:57.5% We can see it. 44:58.600 --> 45:01.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And then we wanted to look for photo products, 45:01.233 --> 45:02.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% the transformation products, 45:02.866 --> 45:05.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and we didn't find any, which was a bummer. 45:06.066 --> 45:09.133 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% My poor grad student was really sad when we got this result. 45:09.233 --> 45:11.033 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% We didn't find any. 45:11.133 --> 45:12.200 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And the question was, why? 45:12.300 --> 45:13.700 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% You know, we're thinking the half-life 45:13.800 --> 45:16.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% is something like 20 hours and it was there for three days. 45:17.033 --> 45:19.333 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% Well, the environment is a messy place, 45:19.433 --> 45:21.533 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% it's a lot more complicated than we think it's gonna be, 45:21.633 --> 45:23.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and so we can actually adjust for it. 45:23.633 --> 45:25.933 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And so, well, you can see I'm gonna walk you through that. 45:26.033 --> 45:27.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And this half-life is gonna get 45:27.300 --> 45:28.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% bigger and bigger and bigger as we go. 45:29.033 --> 45:31.466 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% But our initial estimate was about 20 hours. 45:31.566 --> 45:33.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And we look and say, okay, well first of all 45:33.633 --> 45:34.800 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that's not really a good estimate 45:34.900 --> 45:37.966 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% because this is assuming that the sun is on 45:38.066 --> 45:39.600 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% like noontime conditions all the time, 45:39.700 --> 45:43.600 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% which, obviously, the sun is not shining 24 hours a day. 45:43.700 --> 45:45.900 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And we're looking at a depth of 55 centimeters. 45:46.000 --> 45:48.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So actually the first thing we looked at was, well, 45:48.866 --> 45:49.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% that's a really deep river. 45:49.866 --> 45:51.366 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% It's about two meters deep. 45:51.466 --> 45:54.066 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So if we, and this figure shows like 45:54.166 --> 45:55.933 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% how quickly light drops off with depth. 45:56.033 --> 45:57.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And so thinking about how deep 45:57.266 --> 45:59.066 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% the water is is really important. 45:59.166 --> 46:01.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So if we go from 55 centimeters to two meters, 46:01.833 --> 46:03.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% that triples the half-life, 46:03.333 --> 46:05.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% so the chemical just over in a deeper water 46:05.500 --> 46:08.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% is gonna go away three times more slowly. 46:09.366 --> 46:13.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then Madison is not Manistique and the UP. 46:14.000 --> 46:18.466 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So the sun's, you know, the sun is at a different angle, 46:18.566 --> 46:20.733 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so we corrected for that. 46:20.833 --> 46:23.300 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So you can see this is our sunlight data. 46:23.400 --> 46:24.533 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% This is what Madison is. 46:24.633 --> 46:26.600 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% It's basically higher, 46:26.700 --> 46:28.866 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% getting a little more light for that first calculation. 46:28.966 --> 46:30.866 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% This is the Manistique in September. 46:30.966 --> 46:32.766 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% It's getting less light. 46:32.866 --> 46:35.400 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% That, again, is gonna make the chemical go away 46:35.500 --> 46:38.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% about two times more slowly. 46:38.733 --> 46:41.966 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So the location is really important in this calculation. 46:43.233 --> 46:46.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% This isn't clear water, it has some color to it. 46:46.933 --> 46:48.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% So we can account for that. 46:48.133 --> 46:50.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% That's gonna slow us down a little bit more. 46:50.633 --> 46:52.866 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% And then what really gets us in trouble is 46:52.966 --> 46:54.733 align:left position:25%,start line:5% size:65% when we actually take into account the fact 46:54.833 --> 46:57.866 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% that the sun is not on all the day, and we can see, 46:57.966 --> 47:00.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% you know, we can model the sunlight and all that. 47:00.666 --> 47:04.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Now we're getting up to a half-life around 300 hours. 47:04.333 --> 47:06.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And then I showed you the one picture 47:06.666 --> 47:08.100 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% from when it was nice and sunny. 47:08.200 --> 47:10.100 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% That was the only time the sun was shining 47:10.200 --> 47:11.666 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% the whole time we were up there. 47:11.766 --> 47:13.866 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And so if you take into cloud cover, 47:13.966 --> 47:17.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% now we're at around 600 hours of a half-life. 47:17.500 --> 47:19.233 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% So it's gonna take 600 hours 47:19.333 --> 47:21.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% for half of the chemical to go away, accounting for, like, 47:21.866 --> 47:23.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% the daily variability in sunlight 47:23.366 --> 47:25.233 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and everything else we can think of. 47:26.233 --> 47:27.766 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And so we can take our lab data 47:27.866 --> 47:30.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and we can explain what we saw in the field. 47:30.400 --> 47:31.766 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% But that sort of begs the question, 47:31.866 --> 47:34.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% well, does TFM ever undergo photolysis? 47:35.666 --> 47:37.633 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And so what we did here, you know, 47:37.733 --> 47:41.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% my poor student is finishing up her PhD, you know, 47:41.166 --> 47:43.066 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% we're not gonna go out and sample every river, 47:43.166 --> 47:45.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% so we turn to doing some calculations. 47:45.566 --> 47:47.933 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And so Fish & Wildlife helped us out a lot here. 47:48.033 --> 47:53.033 align:left position:25%,start line:77% size:65% We took data from all the tributaries they treated in 2015, 47:54.200 --> 47:56.666 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% so 76 tributaries just in the US side. 47:56.766 --> 47:59.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And we took all the data from 2016, 47:59.433 --> 48:01.233 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% so another 63 tributaries. 48:02.666 --> 48:05.633 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And we took into account how long the rivers were, 48:05.733 --> 48:06.833 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% the time of the year, 48:06.933 --> 48:08.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% all those factors that I just showed you, 48:09.033 --> 48:11.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% to come up with half-lives. 48:11.133 --> 48:12.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And that's shown here in this figure. 48:12.933 --> 48:16.333 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% And so we just, these are the two years. 48:16.433 --> 48:19.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% And basically what we want is a higher number. 48:19.366 --> 48:21.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% A higher number is more percent degradation. 48:21.600 --> 48:25.900 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% And so what we did was, again for all these tributaries 48:26.000 --> 48:27.133 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that were treated in those years, 48:27.233 --> 48:28.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% we took into account the stream depth, 48:28.900 --> 48:31.833 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% we took into account how long the chemical was in the water, 48:31.933 --> 48:34.700 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and the site specific daily radiation. 48:34.800 --> 48:37.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% Basically what we found was that for 70 tributaries, 48:37.300 --> 48:38.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% they're below this 10% line. 48:38.833 --> 48:41.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% They really wouldn't see any photo degradation at all. 48:41.266 --> 48:44.066 align:left position:17.5%,start line:83% size:72.5% And you can see our first two sites are right there. 48:44.166 --> 48:46.266 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% So, again hindsight is 20/20, 48:46.366 --> 48:48.266 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% those probably weren't the best choices. 48:49.700 --> 48:52.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% 58 tributaries we might see some moderate degradation. 48:52.933 --> 48:54.466 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% And 11 tributaries, 48:54.566 --> 48:55.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% which are basically turn out to be 48:56.000 --> 48:57.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% longer and more shallow tributaries, 48:57.733 --> 49:00.566 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% we can actually see significant degradation. 49:00.666 --> 49:03.633 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So if we're thinking just about the rivers themselves, 49:03.733 --> 49:06.300 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% this, you know, it's gonna be about 10% of the rivers 49:06.400 --> 49:09.733 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% we're gonna actually see significant photo degradation 49:09.833 --> 49:11.566 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% during a treatment application. 49:12.566 --> 49:14.500 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% So where do the chemicals go? 49:15.500 --> 49:17.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% There's a couple things that I think are really important 49:17.833 --> 49:20.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% that I'm really interested in. 49:20.133 --> 49:22.166 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% First of all is the groundwater. 49:22.266 --> 49:25.200 align:left position:10%,start line:5% size:80% So I talked about this a little bit, this hyporheic zone. 49:25.300 --> 49:27.166 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% Below every river there's the hyporheic zone 49:27.266 --> 49:29.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% which is basically where we have rapid exchange 49:29.233 --> 49:31.133 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% between the river and the groundwater. 49:32.333 --> 49:33.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% We found in Sullivan and Carpenter Creek 49:33.933 --> 49:37.200 align:left position:10%,start line:83% size:80% that about 20% to 30% of the chemical ends up in this river, 49:37.300 --> 49:38.900 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% in the hyporheic zone, 49:40.133 --> 49:42.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and then it comes back out again, slowly. 49:42.666 --> 49:45.666 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And so we think what happens in the hyporheic zone 49:45.766 --> 49:47.366 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% biodegradation could be really important 49:47.466 --> 49:49.633 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% because it's staying in the sediment longer. 49:49.733 --> 49:51.300 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% There's a lot of bacteria there. 49:51.400 --> 49:52.933 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% That could be really important. 49:53.033 --> 49:54.366 align:left position:20%,start line:89% size:70% And so this is something 49:54.466 --> 49:57.200 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% that we're really interested in finding more about. 49:57.300 --> 49:59.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% But at the end of the day, the chemical, 49:59.300 --> 50:00.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% most of it is gonna come out 50:00.800 --> 50:02.733 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% and it's gonna end up in the Great Lakes. 50:02.833 --> 50:06.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And even in the large systems, like the Manistique River, 50:06.166 --> 50:08.433 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% they're adding chemical pretty much up to the mouth 50:08.533 --> 50:10.566 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% of where the river hits the Great Lakes 50:10.666 --> 50:12.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% 'cause they wanna keep that concentration constant. 50:12.833 --> 50:14.200 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% They wanna make sure 50:14.300 --> 50:17.200 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% no sea lamprey like sneak up back in, basically. 50:17.300 --> 50:19.866 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% So a lot of the chemical does end up in the Great Lakes. 50:19.966 --> 50:20.866 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And there, I think, actually, 50:20.966 --> 50:23.000 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% photo degradation is important. 50:23.100 --> 50:25.833 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And there's a couple reasons for that. 50:25.933 --> 50:29.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% First of all, the, well there's a bunch of reasons. 50:29.366 --> 50:32.133 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% So if the lake is stratified and the chemical stays 50:32.233 --> 50:35.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% in the top of the water, the water is much more clear. 50:35.800 --> 50:37.933 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So sunlight is gonna go a lot deeper. 50:38.033 --> 50:39.033 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And then the residence time, 50:39.133 --> 50:40.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% so the amount of time water 50:40.366 --> 50:42.266 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% stays in the Great Lakes is a really long time. 50:42.366 --> 50:43.933 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% So they're gonna have a lot more chance 50:44.033 --> 50:45.233 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% to be exposed to sunlight. 50:45.333 --> 50:48.166 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% And so this is something I'd be really interested in. 50:48.266 --> 50:49.400 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% I don't know the answer 50:49.500 --> 50:51.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% and I would really like to go out and do this, 50:51.900 --> 50:53.733 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% but I think that's probably gonna be really important 50:53.833 --> 50:56.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% and I think what we learned as far as the degradation rates 50:56.500 --> 50:57.933 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% and the transformation products are really important 50:58.033 --> 50:59.266 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% for thinking about what actually happens 50:59.366 --> 51:00.800 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% out in the Great Lakes. 51:01.800 --> 51:03.533 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% And so I'm gonna wrap up there. 51:03.633 --> 51:05.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% A very nice, wordy slide to sum it up. 51:05.433 --> 51:08.700 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% But basically what we learned was that degradation 51:08.800 --> 51:10.600 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% by sunlight to these two chemicals can be important 51:10.700 --> 51:12.333 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% under some conditions. 51:12.433 --> 51:15.400 align:left position:12.5%,start line:83% size:77.5% We know a lot more about how water chemistry affects it, 51:15.500 --> 51:16.633 align:left position:25%,start line:89% size:65% and we found that pH, 51:16.733 --> 51:19.133 align:left position:20%,start line:83% size:70% the acidity of the water was really important. 51:19.233 --> 51:20.833 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% We found that TFM goes away 51:20.933 --> 51:23.200 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% much more quickly than niclosamide. 51:23.300 --> 51:25.433 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I wouldn't expect to see niclosamide photo degradation 51:25.533 --> 51:27.300 align:left position:22.5%,start line:89% size:67.5% in a tributary ever. 51:27.400 --> 51:29.500 align:left position:12.5%,start line:89% size:77.5% It's really gonna be very slow. 51:29.600 --> 51:31.100 align:left position:15%,start line:89% size:75% And then we also found out 51:31.200 --> 51:33.300 align:left position:25%,start line:83% size:65% that once the chemicals do degrade, 51:33.400 --> 51:34.966 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% they form chemicals that are gonna be 51:35.066 --> 51:36.300 align:left position:30%,start line:83% size:60% less harmful for the environment, 51:36.400 --> 51:39.066 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% which I think is a really important thing to consider. 51:40.466 --> 51:43.266 align:left position:12.5%,start line:5% size:77.5% Yeah, we relied a lot on modeling to sort of predict 51:43.366 --> 51:46.433 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% how important this process is gonna be. 51:46.533 --> 51:49.200 align:left position:20%,start line:5% size:70% And then, thinking about hyporheic zone storage 51:49.300 --> 51:51.533 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% as well as what happens in the Great Lakes themselves 51:51.633 --> 51:54.566 align:left position:15%,start line:5% size:75% is really important for looking out in the future. 51:54.666 --> 51:56.733 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% And so I want to end with this picture. 51:56.833 --> 51:59.266 align:left position:15%,start line:83% size:75% I took this picture in one of the Fish & Wildlife trailers. 51:59.366 --> 52:01.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% So that's the enemy, the sea lamprey. 52:01.633 --> 52:03.533 align:left position:22.5%,start line:83% size:67.5% And thank you all again for your attention. 52:03.633 --> 52:05.466 align:left position:10%,start line:89% size:80% I'm happy to take any questions. 52:05.566 --> 52:06.633 align:left position:35%,start line:89% size:55% Thank you. 52:06.733 --> 52:09.500 align:left position:22.5%,start line:5% size:67.5% (audience applauds)