1 00:00:01,100 --> 00:00:03,300 - Our next speaker is David Ruid 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,300 from, uh, USDA-APHIS. 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,500 And he's gonna talk about 4 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,833 integrated predator management concepts. 5 00:00:10,933 --> 00:00:12,200 Thank you, David. 6 00:00:14,700 --> 00:00:15,933 - Thanks, Otto. 7 00:00:16,033 --> 00:00:18,733 Thanks for having-- having me here today. 8 00:00:18,833 --> 00:00:21,233 Thanks for coming here today. 9 00:00:21,333 --> 00:00:22,900 Probably the bluegills are moving up 10 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,400 into the shallows right now, and... 11 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:26,033 [audience groans] [laughing] 12 00:00:26,133 --> 00:00:28,366 [indistinct chatter] 13 00:00:28,466 --> 00:00:30,533 It'd be a good day to be out there. 14 00:00:30,633 --> 00:00:33,200 I want to recognize my colleague Eric Fromm. 15 00:00:33,300 --> 00:00:35,200 Eric Fromm does 16 00:00:35,300 --> 00:00:37,800 the lion's share of wolf and bear work 17 00:00:37,900 --> 00:00:40,466 in northwest Wisconsin, including Washburn County. 18 00:00:40,566 --> 00:00:43,566 So, Eric, raise your hand. Thank you. 19 00:00:43,666 --> 00:00:47,666 Yeah, so we'll get going, uh, lickety-split. 20 00:00:47,766 --> 00:00:49,666 So when we're talking about livestock predators 21 00:00:49,766 --> 00:00:52,333 in the state of Wisconsin, pr imarily we're dealing 22 00:00:52,433 --> 00:00:54,866 with wolves, black bears, an d coyotes. 23 00:00:54,966 --> 00:00:57,866 Very rarely we 'll have bobcats maybe kill 24 00:00:57,966 --> 00:01:00,933 a lamb or domestic fowl, bu t typically speaking-- 25 00:01:01,033 --> 00:01:03,066 this is Cow-Calf Workshop, 26 00:01:03,166 --> 00:01:05,566 when we're talking about co w-calf wildlife predation, 27 00:01:05,666 --> 00:01:07,733 we're dealing with wolves, bl ack bears, and coyotes 28 00:01:07,833 --> 00:01:10,166 in the state of Wisconsin. 29 00:01:10,266 --> 00:01:13,333 And I'm primarily gonna talk ab out gray wolves today 30 00:01:13,433 --> 00:01:15,033 and-- and our program 31 00:01:15,133 --> 00:01:18,166 in dealing with-- wi th gray wolf conflicts 32 00:01:18,266 --> 00:01:20,066 in Wisconsin. 33 00:01:20,166 --> 00:01:24,233 This is a-- this-- this map of the U.S. represents-- 34 00:01:24,333 --> 00:01:27,800 those green areas represent wh at most people feel 35 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:31,300 is suitable wolf habit in the 48 states. 36 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,966 The black polygons represent th ose suitable habitat areas 37 00:01:36,066 --> 00:01:39,133 that currently ar e occupied by wolves. 38 00:01:39,233 --> 00:01:41,800 And most recently, wh at we have seen is, 39 00:01:41,900 --> 00:01:44,633 there is now a breeding pack of wolves 40 00:01:44,733 --> 00:01:46,866 that have moved in to California. 41 00:01:46,966 --> 00:01:48,700 Eastern Washington, Oregon 42 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,066 have recently been colonized by wolves. 43 00:01:51,166 --> 00:01:52,900 So we're getting upwards of ten states 44 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,166 that have wolves in them, and there is 45 00:01:55,266 --> 00:01:57,633 some unoccupied suitable habitat 46 00:01:57,733 --> 00:02:00,733 that still exists up in the Northeast. 47 00:02:01,933 --> 00:02:03,666 But as you can see, 48 00:02:03,766 --> 00:02:06,766 our population of wolves is contiguous 49 00:02:06,866 --> 00:02:08,233 with the three states. 50 00:02:08,333 --> 00:02:11,400 And keep in mind, from a biological perspective, 51 00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:13,733 our gray wolf population is classified 52 00:02:13,833 --> 00:02:16,200 as a federally endangered specie. 53 00:02:16,300 --> 00:02:18,866 Remember, this is a contiguous population of wolves 54 00:02:18,966 --> 00:02:21,533 that extends to the Arctic Circle. 55 00:02:21,633 --> 00:02:23,733 That population is 70,000 to 80,000, 56 00:02:23,833 --> 00:02:25,600 maybe 90,000 animals 57 00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:28,433 that exists from central Wisconsin 58 00:02:28,533 --> 00:02:32,100 up into the northern latitudes of Canada and Alaska. 59 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,800 So we-- we'll talk about nonlethal abatement techniques 60 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:42,400 to try to resolve predator-- predator problems, 61 00:02:42,500 --> 00:02:45,066 and one of-- you go back in time, 62 00:02:45,166 --> 00:02:48,400 this isn't a relatively recent phenomenon. 63 00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:50,566 You go back to 1717; 64 00:02:50,666 --> 00:02:53,633 in the Cape Cod region of Massachusetts, 65 00:02:53,733 --> 00:02:55,966 there was a proposed wolf fence 66 00:02:56,066 --> 00:02:58,933 to protect livestock fr om predators, 67 00:02:59,033 --> 00:03:01,333 and that would have been be ars, wolves, and coyotes, 68 00:03:01,433 --> 00:03:04,166 but in 1717, pe ople were thinking about, 69 00:03:04,266 --> 00:03:07,733 "How do I exclude my livestock fr om predators?" 70 00:03:07,833 --> 00:03:09,666 And interestingly enough, 71 00:03:09,766 --> 00:03:12,400 this proposal th at was put forth, 72 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:14,033 it failed from complaints 73 00:03:14,133 --> 00:03:17,366 from the unprotected neighbors ou tside the fence 74 00:03:17,466 --> 00:03:21,200 who didn't want the wolves sh ut out on them, 75 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:25,366 and the proposal was a six-foot-high board fence. 76 00:03:25,466 --> 00:03:28,866 Another technique that was used wa s vegetation management. 77 00:03:28,966 --> 00:03:30,366 Woods burning was used 78 00:03:30,466 --> 00:03:33,200 to reduce vegetative cover ne ar livestock. 79 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:37,100 There's an example of that in the literature from 1928, 80 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,266 uh, in Arkansas. 81 00:03:39,366 --> 00:03:42,366 And I would imagine a lot of these techniques-- 82 00:03:42,466 --> 00:03:45,966 they were used in conjunction with lethal control, 83 00:03:46,066 --> 00:03:50,166 but nevertheless, these were some nonlethal efforts 84 00:03:50,266 --> 00:03:52,766 to separate livestock from predators. 85 00:03:54,666 --> 00:03:58,300 Some of the most early scientific literature 86 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,133 pertaining to this topic was 87 00:04:00,233 --> 00:04:03,766 from the USDA Forest Service in 1908 88 00:04:03,866 --> 00:04:06,133 when they developed a predator-proof fence 89 00:04:06,233 --> 00:04:09,966 in Oregon on a 2,500-acre pasture, 90 00:04:10,066 --> 00:04:12,466 and their results found that 91 00:04:12,566 --> 00:04:15,800 they could successfully fe nce livestock 92 00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:18,466 from pre-- from coyotes, bu t it was unsuccessful 93 00:04:18,566 --> 00:04:21,133 in dealing with grizzly bears an d black bears, 94 00:04:21,233 --> 00:04:23,633 and I would suspect th at this 95 00:04:23,733 --> 00:04:25,633 was probably in an era 96 00:04:25,733 --> 00:04:27,800 when wolves had likely be en extirpated 97 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:30,533 from this particular region. 98 00:04:30,633 --> 00:04:32,533 And how about this fo r a farm labor rate? 99 00:04:32,633 --> 00:04:36,033 Um, three bucks a day pe r eight hours. 100 00:04:36,133 --> 00:04:39,366 [indistinct chatter] 101 00:04:39,466 --> 00:04:40,866 And what we've seen, folks, 102 00:04:40,966 --> 00:04:43,200 when wolves began to colonize the state of Wisconsin, 103 00:04:43,300 --> 00:04:46,466 they colonized some of the best suitable wolf habitat 104 00:04:46,566 --> 00:04:48,633 in the state, and these were big blocks 105 00:04:48,733 --> 00:04:50,100 of contiguous public land 106 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,600 that had very, very little agriculture in it, 107 00:04:52,700 --> 00:04:54,266 and there was very little conflict 108 00:04:54,366 --> 00:04:56,066 between wolves and livestock 109 00:04:56,166 --> 00:04:59,400 in this earlier era of wolf recovery-- 110 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:01,466 recolonization in Wisconsin, you know, 111 00:05:01,566 --> 00:05:05,966 which was occurring from 1980 to, oh, the mid 1990s. 112 00:05:06,066 --> 00:05:09,633 But what we started to see is, this wolf population expanded. 113 00:05:09,733 --> 00:05:11,966 They started to set-- 114 00:05:12,066 --> 00:05:14,466 establish territories in areas 115 00:05:14,566 --> 00:05:17,300 that were becoming mo re fragmented. 116 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,300 It wasn't the big blocks of contiguous forestland. 117 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,800 As you can see-- th is black polygon represents 118 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:24,800 a wolf pack territory, 119 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:27,366 and those open areas, th at's agriculture. 120 00:05:27,466 --> 00:05:31,033 The north end of the wolf pack wa s forested public land, 121 00:05:31,133 --> 00:05:33,866 and the southern fringe of that particular pack, 122 00:05:33,966 --> 00:05:37,066 um, started to-- [s tammers] 123 00:05:37,166 --> 00:05:39,733 It was fragmented an d had livestock production, 124 00:05:39,833 --> 00:05:44,066 so around the mid to late '90s, we were starting to see 125 00:05:44,166 --> 00:05:46,666 wolf packs establishing in these areas, 126 00:05:46,766 --> 00:05:49,500 and we really started to see a consistent trend 127 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,766 in wolves ki lling livestock annually. 128 00:05:52,866 --> 00:05:57,933 And then, as late as 2010, 2013, 129 00:05:58,033 --> 00:05:59,966 this is an actual example 130 00:06:00,066 --> 00:06:02,766 of a wolf pack territory in Marathon County, 131 00:06:02,866 --> 00:06:05,100 and you can see, pr edominately, 132 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,766 that pack's territory is agricultural land, 133 00:06:07,866 --> 00:06:09,433 a lot of it being row crop, 134 00:06:09,533 --> 00:06:12,733 but there is livestock pr oduction included in that. 135 00:06:12,833 --> 00:06:14,800 So as this-- as this 136 00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:17,366 really suitable habitat ha s been saturated, 137 00:06:17,466 --> 00:06:19,200 we're starting to see wo lves spilling out 138 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:21,200 of the northern forest, ce ntral forest, 139 00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:23,866 and establishing territories in this-- 140 00:06:23,966 --> 00:06:26,466 what we would call un suitable habitat, 141 00:06:26,566 --> 00:06:27,866 because generally speaking, 142 00:06:27,966 --> 00:06:30,833 when we do see wolves colonize areas like this, 143 00:06:30,933 --> 00:06:33,866 there's going to be conflicts with livestock. 144 00:06:36,566 --> 00:06:39,766 When we're investigating wolf complaints, 145 00:06:39,866 --> 00:06:43,233 we have to put these complaints into four categories. 146 00:06:43,333 --> 00:06:45,900 And this comes from the-- 147 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,533 the Wisconsin Wolf Management Plan, 148 00:06:48,633 --> 00:06:52,033 and state law drives compensation in the state, 149 00:06:52,133 --> 00:06:54,033 and so we have to package wolf complaints 150 00:06:54,133 --> 00:06:57,466 that we received from you into these four categories, 151 00:06:57,566 --> 00:06:59,333 and they're confirmed, probable, 152 00:06:59,433 --> 00:07:01,666 confirmed non-wolf-- th at would-- 153 00:07:01,766 --> 00:07:04,933 a confirmed non-wolf complaint wo uld be, for instance, 154 00:07:05,033 --> 00:07:08,066 a farmer calls us out ab out wolves killing a calf, 155 00:07:08,166 --> 00:07:09,900 and the evidence suggests it was coyotes 156 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,533 that caused the depredation. 157 00:07:11,633 --> 00:07:13,200 Or unconfirmed. 158 00:07:13,300 --> 00:07:16,766 It doesn't mean we don't know th e reason the calf died. 159 00:07:16,866 --> 00:07:22,533 It just means we know wo lves didn't kill the calf. 160 00:07:22,633 --> 00:07:24,700 The interesting thing ab out this photograph, 161 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,700 if you notice, th ere's a magpie in it. 162 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,700 Eric took this picture wi th a trail camera, 163 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,300 and it has a magpie in Douglas County. 164 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,966 - [chuckles] Th at is rare. 165 00:07:34,066 --> 00:07:37,033 [indistinct chatter] 166 00:07:37,133 --> 00:07:39,700 - So when we're in vestigating complaints, 167 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:44,533 if you call us out to in vestigate a wolf complaint, 168 00:07:44,633 --> 00:07:48,533 the policy says: Ca ll you back in 24 hours, 169 00:07:48,633 --> 00:07:50,866 and if there is a livestock animal 170 00:07:50,966 --> 00:07:53,033 in reasonable condition to examine, 171 00:07:53,133 --> 00:07:55,700 we have to investigate it within 48 hours. 172 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,200 Generally speaking, 173 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:58,866 by the time we receive a complaint 174 00:07:58,966 --> 00:08:00,600 and we have boots on the ground 175 00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:03,000 looking at whatever it is that was called in 176 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:05,333 is within the day-- oftentimes, 177 00:08:05,433 --> 00:08:07,333 less than three to four hours. 178 00:08:07,433 --> 00:08:09,633 In the summer months, especially now 179 00:08:09,733 --> 00:08:11,333 when things are starting to heat up, 180 00:08:11,433 --> 00:08:13,333 it's very, very important for us to get there 181 00:08:13,433 --> 00:08:16,166 as quickly as possible so we can assess that evidence 182 00:08:16,266 --> 00:08:18,433 before decomposition is occurring. 183 00:08:18,533 --> 00:08:22,100 Scavenging-- you know, eagles and ravens and crows, 184 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,700 they consume an awful lot of a depredated livestock animal, 185 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,233 and every time they consume that carcass, 186 00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:30,233 we're losing evidence to classify it 187 00:08:30,333 --> 00:08:33,233 into one of those four categories. 188 00:08:33,333 --> 00:08:35,933 So every complaint has a very detailed report 189 00:08:36,033 --> 00:08:38,933 that accompanies it. 190 00:08:39,033 --> 00:08:41,266 And while we're out there, we have to make sure 191 00:08:41,366 --> 00:08:42,766 we're actually looking at predation. 192 00:08:42,866 --> 00:08:44,333 You know, was the calf stillborn 193 00:08:44,433 --> 00:08:46,000 and simply scavenged by predators, 194 00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:47,833 or was it born alive and killed? 195 00:08:47,933 --> 00:08:50,500 So things we're looking for is manure on the hoof, 196 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:51,866 maybe its ear tag, 197 00:08:51,966 --> 00:08:54,233 it has a emasculating band, 198 00:08:54,333 --> 00:08:56,833 so we know that th e animal was born alive 199 00:08:56,933 --> 00:08:58,666 and we're actually dealing wi th predation 200 00:08:58,766 --> 00:09:00,433 and not just scavenging. 201 00:09:00,533 --> 00:09:02,600 'Cause producers aren't paid 202 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:04,766 for wolves sc avenging on livestock, 203 00:09:04,866 --> 00:09:07,366 only if they depredate li vestock. 204 00:09:07,466 --> 00:09:09,533 While we're there in vestigating complaint, 205 00:09:09,633 --> 00:09:11,433 the evidence we're looking for, 206 00:09:11,533 --> 00:09:14,500 you know, are-- are wolf-- or predator tracks. 207 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,166 Wolf tracks, ge nerally speaking, 208 00:09:17,266 --> 00:09:19,500 they're 4 inches long by 3 1/2 inches wide. 209 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,500 Coyote tracks are much smaller. 210 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,000 Uh, wolf scats-- th ere's a big difference 211 00:09:24,100 --> 00:09:27,233 between wolf scat biomass and coyote scat, 212 00:09:27,333 --> 00:09:30,000 and generally speaking, when we're dealing with bears, 213 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:32,700 there's a lot of vegetation in bear scat 214 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,133 and not so much in predator scat. 215 00:09:36,233 --> 00:09:38,666 You know, we're looking at where the animal was attacked. 216 00:09:38,766 --> 00:09:40,933 The calf on the right, 217 00:09:41,033 --> 00:09:43,300 bitten dorsally ov er the vertebrae, 218 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,966 that's very classic of wolves ki lling young livestock, 219 00:09:47,066 --> 00:09:50,533 calves that are, you know, le ss than three months of age. 220 00:09:50,633 --> 00:09:53,033 Coyotes typically won't do that. 221 00:09:53,133 --> 00:09:57,266 The calf on the lower left with that ventral neck bite, 222 00:09:57,366 --> 00:09:59,266 that's pretty signature of where coyotes 223 00:09:59,366 --> 00:10:02,066 might attack a livestock animal. 224 00:10:02,166 --> 00:10:04,233 And the calf on the upper left, 225 00:10:04,333 --> 00:10:07,233 that was-- that was a newborn beef calf-- 226 00:10:07,333 --> 00:10:09,566 Red Angus calf that was attacked by coyotes 227 00:10:09,666 --> 00:10:10,966 in the flank region, 228 00:10:11,066 --> 00:10:13,166 and they-- they simply ki lled the animal 229 00:10:13,266 --> 00:10:16,700 by stress, blood loss, sh ock, and trauma. 230 00:10:18,133 --> 00:10:20,166 So the-- I mean, when we're out there 231 00:10:20,266 --> 00:10:22,000 and we're looking at dead livestock, 232 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:23,633 these are the things that we're-- 233 00:10:23,733 --> 00:10:25,900 that we're looking for and looking at 234 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,600 to make sure we classify it correctly. 235 00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:33,666 We also look at the canine puncture space 236 00:10:33,766 --> 00:10:37,033 in the hide of a depredated animal. 237 00:10:37,133 --> 00:10:39,366 The lower right, you can see the spacing of that 238 00:10:39,466 --> 00:10:41,833 is about a inch and 1/2, in ch and 3/4. 239 00:10:41,933 --> 00:10:44,233 That's very signature of a wolf bite. 240 00:10:44,333 --> 00:10:46,900 Fairly large diameter pu ncture holes-- 241 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,400 3/8 of an inch ge nerally speaking. 242 00:10:49,500 --> 00:10:51,566 Inch and 1/2 or greater is-- 243 00:10:51,666 --> 00:10:55,500 is very signature of a wolf bite, 244 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,333 and you can see all the hemorrhaging 245 00:10:57,433 --> 00:10:59,000 and shock and trauma and blood loss. 246 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:02,233 That's evidence that obviously this animal was alive 247 00:11:02,333 --> 00:11:04,900 when it was bit. 248 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,566 And that just represents the canine tooth spacing 249 00:11:07,666 --> 00:11:09,400 of a wolf right there in that image. 250 00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:12,100 It's about an inch and 5/8. 251 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,100 Another technique that we 've used-- 252 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,733 sometimes successfully, so metimes unsuccessfully-- 253 00:11:17,833 --> 00:11:20,366 we can collect saliva or tissue 254 00:11:20,466 --> 00:11:22,566 around those canine puncture holes, 255 00:11:22,666 --> 00:11:26,033 and submit it to our National Wildlife Research Center. 256 00:11:26,133 --> 00:11:29,733 And they can actually try to get genetic material 257 00:11:29,833 --> 00:11:33,533 from the saliva and classify by specie 258 00:11:33,633 --> 00:11:36,366 what saliva that has came-- what sal-- 259 00:11:36,466 --> 00:11:38,533 what specie that saliva came from. 260 00:11:38,633 --> 00:11:41,633 It's been used successfully. It's not 100%. 261 00:11:41,733 --> 00:11:45,500 I would say right now, it's about 50/50. 262 00:11:48,466 --> 00:11:51,966 Carcass location, consumption, drag trail, 263 00:11:52,066 --> 00:11:54,300 how much of the animal wa s consumed. 264 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,200 If we know wh en it was killed, 265 00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:58,766 we know when you found it, ho w much of it was consumed? 266 00:11:58,866 --> 00:12:00,600 Is it improbable for a coyote 267 00:12:00,700 --> 00:12:03,433 to have consumed that much, or a bear? 268 00:12:03,533 --> 00:12:06,433 Or how big-- ho w large of an animal is it? 269 00:12:06,533 --> 00:12:08,066 And was it dragged? 270 00:12:08,166 --> 00:12:10,233 I mean, coyotes don't have the ability 271 00:12:10,333 --> 00:12:13,400 to drag carcasses as well as wolves or bears, 272 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:15,566 and maybe it was cached. 273 00:12:15,666 --> 00:12:21,400 It's not uncommon for bears to cover prey items. 274 00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:24,166 Maybe it was a fawn or a livestock carcass... 275 00:12:24,266 --> 00:12:27,100 [stammers] Or, uh, a roadkill. 276 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,766 They'll drag a roadkill deer off the edge of the highway 277 00:12:29,866 --> 00:12:32,533 and then cache it with vegetation. 278 00:12:32,633 --> 00:12:34,366 Wolves occasionally will do that 279 00:12:34,466 --> 00:12:37,233 but fairly infrequently. 280 00:12:39,266 --> 00:12:41,333 So when wolf recovery... [clears throat] 281 00:12:41,433 --> 00:12:45,000 Was occurring from the '80s into the-- into the '90s 282 00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:47,500 and the early 2000s 283 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,100 is when we started to see 284 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,933 the number of wolf complaints increasing. 285 00:12:52,033 --> 00:12:53,766 Those blue bars represent 286 00:12:53,866 --> 00:12:55,633 wolf complaints we 've received 287 00:12:55,733 --> 00:12:57,566 in the state of Wisconsin 288 00:12:57,666 --> 00:13:00,200 where we actually went out an d investigated. 289 00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:03,633 Those red bars represent th ose complaints 290 00:13:03,733 --> 00:13:07,166 that we classified as confirmed or probable. 291 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:10,200 And obviously, th e black line 292 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:13,133 is the trend of the gray wolf population. 293 00:13:13,233 --> 00:13:16,633 So there is a very strong st atistical relationship 294 00:13:16,733 --> 00:13:19,300 that says, as wolves recovered 295 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,366 and their population increased, 296 00:13:21,466 --> 00:13:24,200 so did complaints an d verified complaints. 297 00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:27,666 Some people have argued th at necessarily more wolves 298 00:13:27,766 --> 00:13:30,300 does not mean mo re complaints. 299 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:31,633 In the state of Wisconsin, 300 00:13:31,733 --> 00:13:35,000 there's a strong correlation that it does mean that. 301 00:13:36,266 --> 00:13:38,000 But-- this is important. 302 00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:39,833 These are the confirmed and probable 303 00:13:39,933 --> 00:13:44,300 wolf complaints we 've received since 2003. 304 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,466 So 2003, we have 35 verif-- 305 00:13:47,566 --> 00:13:50,033 confirmed or probable wo lf complaints. 306 00:13:50,133 --> 00:13:52,766 In 2003, the wolf population, 307 00:13:52,866 --> 00:13:56,133 the minimum count wa s about 350 animals. 308 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,566 And today, in-- la st year, in 2015, 309 00:14:00,666 --> 00:14:04,433 we had 91 confirmed or probable wo lf complaints, 310 00:14:04,533 --> 00:14:07,233 but if you look at roughly a ten-year average, 311 00:14:07,333 --> 00:14:11,466 that trend is beginning to stabilize somewhat, 312 00:14:11,566 --> 00:14:14,233 but there's nuances to this be cause there's been 313 00:14:14,333 --> 00:14:17,066 on again/off again ma nagement scenarios 314 00:14:17,166 --> 00:14:19,833 based on the federal status of wolves, 315 00:14:19,933 --> 00:14:23,833 and also the new-- the state had the authority 316 00:14:23,933 --> 00:14:25,966 in '12, '13, and '14 317 00:14:26,066 --> 00:14:28,800 to have a recreational wolf harvest season, 318 00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:32,866 and we had an integrated program where we were-- 319 00:14:32,966 --> 00:14:35,700 had the authority to lethally remove wolves 320 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,866 that were causing depredations on farms. 321 00:14:42,433 --> 00:14:46,433 So in 2015, while investigating wolf complaints, 322 00:14:46,533 --> 00:14:51,600 we confirmed 46 of those an d another 10% as probable. 323 00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:54,100 So over 50% of the investigations 324 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,600 that we conducted 325 00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:58,766 were classified as confirmed or probable, 326 00:14:58,866 --> 00:15:02,500 and 17% of those we re confirmed as non-wolf. 327 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,166 And generally speaking, wh en it's a non-wolf complaint, 328 00:15:06,266 --> 00:15:08,500 it's usually, coyotes ha ve killed a beef calf. 329 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,000 These beef calves are fairly vu lnerable to coyote predation 330 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:14,866 that first day or two of their life. 331 00:15:17,966 --> 00:15:19,533 And resource categories-- 332 00:15:19,633 --> 00:15:23,700 while we're investigating complaints, beef cattle 333 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,100 makes up the majority of it by over 50%. 334 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,200 50% of the conflicts th at we're looking at 335 00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:35,166 relates to cow-calf producers. 336 00:15:35,266 --> 00:15:39,666 Dairy cattle is a fairly si gnificant portion at 12%, 337 00:15:39,766 --> 00:15:41,666 and then the next biggest co mponent 338 00:15:41,766 --> 00:15:43,700 is dogs and hunting dogs. 339 00:15:47,266 --> 00:15:48,966 Someone asked about a map 340 00:15:49,066 --> 00:15:51,133 of wolf conflicts in the state. 341 00:15:51,233 --> 00:15:54,133 You know, I get th is is kind of a wide scale, 342 00:15:54,233 --> 00:15:56,800 but in 2015, 343 00:15:56,900 --> 00:15:59,766 those larger red dots re present 344 00:15:59,866 --> 00:16:02,333 those confirmed an d probable conflicts. 345 00:16:02,433 --> 00:16:06,633 The smaller dots represent th e confirmed non-wolf 346 00:16:06,733 --> 00:16:09,666 or the unconfirmed complaints in the state. 347 00:16:09,766 --> 00:16:13,133 And as you can see, it's mostly a northern forest system 348 00:16:13,233 --> 00:16:15,466 in the northern wo lf harvest zones, 349 00:16:15,566 --> 00:16:17,666 uh, some in the central forest, 350 00:16:17,766 --> 00:16:19,766 and then some scattered out. 351 00:16:19,866 --> 00:16:24,700 Notably is Crawford County in southwest Wisconsin. 352 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,133 A pack of wolves ha s established themselves 353 00:16:27,233 --> 00:16:28,966 down there, and they have de predated livestock 354 00:16:29,066 --> 00:16:31,333 two years in a row now. 355 00:16:33,633 --> 00:16:35,700 Um, in 2015, 356 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,766 we investigated wolf complaints in 35 counties. 357 00:16:39,866 --> 00:16:41,266 And we verified or classified them 358 00:16:41,366 --> 00:16:44,300 as confirmed or probable in 23 counties of the state. 359 00:16:47,966 --> 00:16:50,500 You know, this is-- this is an important statistic 360 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,000 that we really keep track of in our program, 361 00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:55,100 and that's the number of farms in the state 362 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,766 where we verify wolves ha ve killed livestock. 363 00:16:57,866 --> 00:16:59,600 [clears throat] Th is excludes fowl. 364 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:02,833 This is looking at sheep, 365 00:17:02,933 --> 00:17:06,000 cattle-- dairy cattle, be ef cattle-- possibly horses. 366 00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:08,666 Horse depredations ar e relatively rare, 367 00:17:08,766 --> 00:17:13,833 but, um, in 2010, wa s the most farms 368 00:17:13,933 --> 00:17:18,166 that we had ever verified wo lf depredations on at 47, 369 00:17:18,266 --> 00:17:21,300 and then you can see th at trend started to decline 370 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,866 from 47 to 40 to 32 to 28, 371 00:17:24,966 --> 00:17:29,733 and during-- in 2012, '13, and '14, 372 00:17:29,833 --> 00:17:32,700 we had the recreational harvest of wolves in the state, 373 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,100 and our program had th e authority 374 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,100 to not only implement nonlethal abatement on farms 375 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,566 to try to prevent wolf depredations; 376 00:17:40,666 --> 00:17:42,100 we had the authority 377 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,233 to set equipment on property, 378 00:17:44,333 --> 00:17:47,700 and any wolves captured would be euthanized. 379 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,866 So in 2012, we had euthanized 57 wolves 380 00:17:51,966 --> 00:17:55,000 that were causing conflict on different farms, 381 00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:59,000 and producers, through shooting permits 382 00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:01,733 and provisions of NR10.02 383 00:18:01,833 --> 00:18:04,166 that allow livestock producers 384 00:18:04,266 --> 00:18:07,666 to shoot wolves that are actively attacking livestock, 385 00:18:07,766 --> 00:18:10,200 you know, there was an additional 17 animals removed 386 00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:13,866 in 2012, in addition to the 57 that we removed. 387 00:18:13,966 --> 00:18:16,033 So we were beginning to remove wolves 388 00:18:16,133 --> 00:18:19,200 that had become associated 389 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:21,300 with depredating livestock, 390 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,600 and we started to see the number of farms 391 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:27,266 that wolves were killing livestock on decrease. 392 00:18:27,366 --> 00:18:30,800 2014 was the last year of recreational wolf harvest 393 00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:33,300 and lethal control 394 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,433 for livestock depredation protection, 395 00:18:36,533 --> 00:18:40,433 and that number of farms jumped up to 32 last year. 396 00:18:43,633 --> 00:18:46,866 [stammers] So as a livestock producer, 397 00:18:46,966 --> 00:18:48,366 there's seasonal variation 398 00:18:48,466 --> 00:18:50,866 in when you might expect wolves 399 00:18:50,966 --> 00:18:53,000 to depredate livestock, 400 00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:56,466 especially cow-calf producers. 401 00:18:56,566 --> 00:18:58,966 Beginning in January th rough March, 402 00:18:59,066 --> 00:19:01,033 it's a relatively rare event. 403 00:19:01,133 --> 00:19:03,333 You don't have many sm all animals on the farm. 404 00:19:03,433 --> 00:19:05,566 All your big animals ar e up around the hay ring 405 00:19:05,666 --> 00:19:06,933 near the buildings, an d they're just-- 406 00:19:07,033 --> 00:19:09,100 they're not very vulnerable. 407 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,100 You know, but what happens, as soon as-- 408 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,133 as soon as you start to calve 409 00:19:13,233 --> 00:19:15,800 and pasture greens up, 410 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:18,133 your herds get dispersed on pasture; 411 00:19:18,233 --> 00:19:20,466 they're in more remote areas of the farm. 412 00:19:20,566 --> 00:19:22,166 You have young animals. 413 00:19:22,266 --> 00:19:23,933 You have wolves on the landscape. 414 00:19:24,033 --> 00:19:25,933 We start to see the uptick in depredation 415 00:19:26,033 --> 00:19:29,733 starting in end of March, fi rst of April, 416 00:19:29,833 --> 00:19:32,900 and then ar ound the middle of May, 417 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,066 end of May, it kind of peaks, 418 00:19:35,166 --> 00:19:36,733 and then it starts to drop off. 419 00:19:36,833 --> 00:19:40,033 And what's occurring is, fa wning has occurred, 420 00:19:40,133 --> 00:19:41,700 and we see a decrease 421 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,700 in the rate of wolves de predating livestock 422 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,466 when they switch over 423 00:19:45,566 --> 00:19:48,133 and there's this new fo od resource that's available 424 00:19:48,233 --> 00:19:50,633 on the landscape, an d that's deer fawns. 425 00:19:50,733 --> 00:19:53,800 And so we see this-- th is bimodal relationship 426 00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:55,300 where livestock conflicts 427 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,366 get a little slower in June, July, 428 00:19:58,466 --> 00:20:01,200 but as soon as we begin to approach August, 429 00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:04,400 end of July, first of August, middle of August, 430 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:08,933 the wolf pups are weaned; they're away from the dens. 431 00:20:09,033 --> 00:20:11,933 They're old enough to travel with the adults, 432 00:20:12,033 --> 00:20:13,566 and you can possibly 433 00:20:13,666 --> 00:20:17,166 end up with an entire pack of wolves 434 00:20:17,266 --> 00:20:19,033 that are called "rendezvousing," 435 00:20:19,133 --> 00:20:22,366 or they have a rendezvous site near your farm. 436 00:20:22,466 --> 00:20:24,866 The bioenergetics of the wolf pack 437 00:20:24,966 --> 00:20:26,666 is increased tremendously 438 00:20:26,766 --> 00:20:29,100 'cause you not only have the two breeders 439 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,833 that need sustenance for survival; 440 00:20:31,933 --> 00:20:36,833 the pups are also old enough to where they're depending 441 00:20:36,933 --> 00:20:39,366 on meat for sustenance, 442 00:20:39,466 --> 00:20:42,166 and we see these depredations increasing 443 00:20:42,266 --> 00:20:44,200 in August and September, 444 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:46,433 and then towards the middle to end of October, 445 00:20:46,533 --> 00:20:48,266 it starts to decline again, 446 00:20:48,366 --> 00:20:50,500 and, you know, pasture could be 447 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,666 froze off by that point; 448 00:20:52,766 --> 00:20:55,100 maybe your feeder calves have been shipped. 449 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,400 The vulnerability-- 450 00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:58,233 the number of vulnerable animals out there 451 00:20:58,333 --> 00:21:00,233 just starts to decline, 452 00:21:00,333 --> 00:21:02,500 and this rate of depredation drops off 453 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,133 to where when we get into November-- 454 00:21:06,233 --> 00:21:07,633 late November, December, 455 00:21:07,733 --> 00:21:11,033 it becomes a fairly rare event. 456 00:21:11,133 --> 00:21:12,400 What we have seen 457 00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:15,166 when livestock producers do have wolves 458 00:21:15,266 --> 00:21:18,233 on their farms la te in the year 459 00:21:18,333 --> 00:21:20,100 and depredations are occurring, 460 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,866 those can be significant issues fo r that producer, 461 00:21:22,966 --> 00:21:26,833 'cause those wolves are-- [c lears throat] 462 00:21:26,933 --> 00:21:30,400 They're going to spend time at that farm hunting livestock 463 00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,433 because they've become ac climated to doing it. 464 00:21:35,933 --> 00:21:38,233 And, you know, wh at predisposes 465 00:21:38,333 --> 00:21:41,000 an individual farmer to a livestock depredation-- 466 00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:43,533 you know, I said earlier, th ere's 32 farms last year 467 00:21:43,633 --> 00:21:46,566 that we verified wo lves killing livestock on. 468 00:21:46,666 --> 00:21:48,866 We know that it occurs more than that. 469 00:21:48,966 --> 00:21:51,566 [clears throat] Th ey may kill a calf, 470 00:21:51,666 --> 00:21:54,800 consume it, and the producer's ne ver aware that-- 471 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:57,733 why the calf is missing; th at has happened. 472 00:21:57,833 --> 00:22:02,166 So that number of farms is higher than 32, 473 00:22:02,266 --> 00:22:05,700 but what predisposes a farm to wolf predation 474 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,366 in Wisconsin is, generally, it 's a larger farm, 475 00:22:09,466 --> 00:22:11,700 usually has, you know, 476 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,066 50 to a few hundred he ad of cattle on it, 477 00:22:15,166 --> 00:22:17,600 more remote pastures, 478 00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:19,933 and what happens, th ese farms are just 479 00:22:20,033 --> 00:22:22,600 positioned on the landscape wh ere they butt up 480 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:25,100 next to really good wo lf habitat. 481 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,766 And this is an aerial image out of an aircraft 482 00:22:27,866 --> 00:22:31,766 flying from Ashland down along Highway 13. 483 00:22:31,866 --> 00:22:33,366 So this would be right around 484 00:22:33,466 --> 00:22:35,166 Marengo, High Bridge, 485 00:22:35,266 --> 00:22:37,200 York area lo oking south, 486 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:39,033 and you can see th at pastureland right there, 487 00:22:39,133 --> 00:22:42,033 but that blue haze in the background 488 00:22:42,133 --> 00:22:45,100 is the Great Divide Ra nger District 489 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,433 of the national forest. 490 00:22:46,533 --> 00:22:48,533 There's county forest land th ere. 491 00:22:48,633 --> 00:22:51,033 And there's ab out a half a million acres 492 00:22:51,133 --> 00:22:53,133 of really good wolf habitat 493 00:22:53,233 --> 00:22:56,766 right up next to th is livestock production area, 494 00:22:56,866 --> 00:22:58,766 and there's a lot of cow-calf operations 495 00:22:58,866 --> 00:23:00,366 in this area. 496 00:23:00,466 --> 00:23:03,766 And you simply have fo ur strands of barbed wire 497 00:23:03,866 --> 00:23:05,233 separating your animals 498 00:23:05,333 --> 00:23:07,900 from some of the best wolf habitat in the state, 499 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,566 and that's not-- that's not an abatement strategy. 500 00:23:10,666 --> 00:23:13,733 Your fences are designed to confine livestock. 501 00:23:13,833 --> 00:23:17,233 They're not designed to keep predators out of your pastures. 502 00:23:19,133 --> 00:23:21,100 And, you know, farm size can range-- 503 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,633 the biggest producer we deal with is-- 504 00:23:22,733 --> 00:23:26,900 he's got-- uh, about 1,200 acres. 505 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,000 And generally speaking, on a farm, and, uh-- 506 00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:33,100 generally speaking-- there are exceptions, 507 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,000 but the average number of calves killed per farm 508 00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:40,500 using our statistics is around two calves per farm. 509 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,966 There are situations, as you can see, 510 00:23:43,066 --> 00:23:45,300 where one particular farm, we verify-- 511 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,366 we verified 12 calves were killed. 512 00:23:48,466 --> 00:23:51,833 That particular producer had a fairly large 513 00:23:51,933 --> 00:23:54,566 missing livestock claim that year also. 514 00:23:54,666 --> 00:23:55,933 [clears throat] 515 00:23:59,833 --> 00:24:02,200 Cattle depredated by wolves. 516 00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:04,066 Um, since they were listed 517 00:24:04,166 --> 00:24:07,600 as an endangered specie ba ck in 1975, 518 00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:09,566 we have verified wo lves have killed 519 00:24:09,666 --> 00:24:12,466 661 head of cattle in the state. 520 00:24:12,566 --> 00:24:14,833 Last year, it was 46. 521 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,666 Something that's not ta lked about 522 00:24:19,766 --> 00:24:21,966 but is very important 523 00:24:22,066 --> 00:24:24,233 are these no n-depredation impacts 524 00:24:24,333 --> 00:24:27,000 that wolves can have on livestock production. 525 00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:30,066 And, you know, Mr. Link hi t the nail on the head. 526 00:24:30,166 --> 00:24:33,033 The instance-- in 2015, 527 00:24:33,133 --> 00:24:36,233 there was an incident on that particular property 528 00:24:36,333 --> 00:24:39,733 where we didn't have go od abatement strategies, 529 00:24:39,833 --> 00:24:41,233 and the best solution was 530 00:24:41,333 --> 00:24:43,100 just to move the cattle of f of the-- 531 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,033 off of that pasture. 532 00:24:45,133 --> 00:24:48,433 And, to me, wh en that is the solution, 533 00:24:48,533 --> 00:24:50,366 the program has failed, 534 00:24:50,466 --> 00:24:53,866 because we weren't able to resolve that conflict 535 00:24:53,966 --> 00:24:56,533 using just nonlethal techniques. 536 00:24:56,633 --> 00:24:58,666 We need to have an integrated approach 537 00:24:58,766 --> 00:25:02,066 to resolving livestock depredations from wolves. 538 00:25:02,166 --> 00:25:05,300 But some of these non-predation-related impacts 539 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,900 that wolves have had on livestock production 540 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,600 includes weight loss. 541 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:12,700 That Ramler et al. 2014 paper 542 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,600 is a scientific peer-reviewed paper 543 00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:18,066 that looked at ranches in Montana 544 00:25:18,166 --> 00:25:23,100 and compared feeder calf weights at the end of the season 545 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,266 on farms that had wolf depredations 546 00:25:25,366 --> 00:25:28,033 and on farms that didn't have wolf depredations, 547 00:25:28,133 --> 00:25:30,333 and those farms that had wolf depredations, 548 00:25:30,433 --> 00:25:33,333 their calf weights were 26 pounds lighter 549 00:25:33,433 --> 00:25:36,100 than the ranches without depredations, 550 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,166 and, you know, that year, 551 00:25:38,266 --> 00:25:41,000 if you look at, you know, 26 pounds per calf 552 00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:42,766 at a couple of bucks a pound, 553 00:25:42,866 --> 00:25:44,800 that adds up to real money really quick. 554 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:48,800 I mean, and these are impacts that aren't compensated for. 555 00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:52,566 Increased cattle vigilance, that Kluever paper, 556 00:25:52,666 --> 00:25:56,833 looked at cow-calf herds in the Southwest, 557 00:25:56,933 --> 00:25:59,000 in Arizona and New Mexico, that were exposed 558 00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:00,900 to the Mexican gray wolf, 559 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,300 and those animals... [clears throat] 560 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,866 Those animals on those allotments 561 00:26:05,966 --> 00:26:07,800 that had the presence of wolves 562 00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:10,800 spent more time looking for-- 563 00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:12,766 presumably for predators 564 00:26:12,866 --> 00:26:16,233 than herds that didn't have wolves on the allotment. 565 00:26:16,333 --> 00:26:18,066 Meaning, they spent more time grazing, 566 00:26:18,166 --> 00:26:19,400 putting weight on. 567 00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:22,533 I mean, that's the goal of cow-calf production. 568 00:26:22,633 --> 00:26:24,633 Cattle-- very difficult to handle, 569 00:26:24,733 --> 00:26:26,533 that have been hunted by wolves. 570 00:26:26,633 --> 00:26:30,366 Cattle have been stampeded th rough fences. 571 00:26:30,466 --> 00:26:33,533 There's the potential of a disease transmitted 572 00:26:33,633 --> 00:26:36,000 between wolves-- ot her canids. 573 00:26:36,100 --> 00:26:39,433 Coyotes, farm dogs, fo xes, and wolves 574 00:26:39,533 --> 00:26:41,966 can transmit Neospora caninum, 575 00:26:42,066 --> 00:26:45,300 which can result in the cow aborting a fetus. 576 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,666 Um, fence damage, 577 00:26:46,766 --> 00:26:49,533 and time spent se arching for depredations. 578 00:26:49,633 --> 00:26:52,466 You know, these are some of these secondary impacts 579 00:26:52,566 --> 00:26:55,233 that folks like you can have 580 00:26:55,333 --> 00:26:58,833 when wolves start hunting livestock on your farm. 581 00:26:58,933 --> 00:27:00,900 So some nonlethal concepts. 582 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,866 Disruptive stimuli-- th is is, you know, 583 00:27:03,966 --> 00:27:06,333 an undesirable stimuli to prevent or alter 584 00:27:06,433 --> 00:27:07,966 the behavior of an animal, 585 00:27:08,066 --> 00:27:10,633 to try to frighten it away. 586 00:27:10,733 --> 00:27:12,033 Aversive stimuli-- 587 00:27:12,133 --> 00:27:14,600 stimuli that cause di scomfort or pain 588 00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:17,066 that's paired wi th a specific behavior. 589 00:27:17,166 --> 00:27:18,733 When we talk ab out nonlethal concepts, 590 00:27:18,833 --> 00:27:21,366 these are kind of th e two boxes that we look at 591 00:27:21,466 --> 00:27:24,033 when we're trying to prevent wolves 592 00:27:24,133 --> 00:27:26,866 from killing livestock. 593 00:27:26,966 --> 00:27:29,866 And some of those te chniques are fladry-- 594 00:27:29,966 --> 00:27:32,933 and we'll go over these wh en we go out to-- 595 00:27:33,033 --> 00:27:34,933 when we go out to the Radzak farm. 596 00:27:35,033 --> 00:27:37,433 Fladry, ra ndomly activated lights, 597 00:27:37,533 --> 00:27:40,266 electronic guards, ra dio-activated guards, 598 00:27:40,366 --> 00:27:43,433 and scare wires. 599 00:27:43,533 --> 00:27:44,933 The image on the left, 600 00:27:45,033 --> 00:27:48,500 that's a scare wire on a cow-calf operation. 601 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,333 It's placed between the ground an d the bottom barbed wired, 602 00:27:52,433 --> 00:27:55,133 and it's electrified 603 00:27:55,233 --> 00:27:57,300 with 12-volt fencers, so lar Parmak fencers, 604 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,100 or some other fencers. 605 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,666 Fairly high voltage. 606 00:28:00,766 --> 00:28:02,933 It's a technique th at we're using 607 00:28:03,033 --> 00:28:04,966 on a particular farm th at has 608 00:28:05,066 --> 00:28:07,566 a huge history of wolf conflicts 609 00:28:07,666 --> 00:28:10,500 to prevent wolves fr om accessing pastures. 610 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,033 The image on the right, 611 00:28:12,133 --> 00:28:15,133 that's some of our staff in stalling fladry 612 00:28:15,233 --> 00:28:16,833 on a farm in Douglas County 613 00:28:16,933 --> 00:28:20,833 that had wolf depredations in 2015. 614 00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:28,400 In 2015, we had 17 major no nlethal projects. 615 00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:32,900 We installed 16-- al most 16 1/2 miles of fladry. 616 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,966 We put these ra dio-activated guards-- 617 00:28:35,066 --> 00:28:37,100 and you'll see these th is afternoon-- 618 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,600 out on three different pr operties, 619 00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:43,933 installed over six miles of electrified poly-tape, 620 00:28:44,033 --> 00:28:45,800 used electronic guards 621 00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:49,666 and various livestock husbandry re commendations. 622 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,566 You know, and some an imal husbandry practices 623 00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:58,033 that might help prevent wo lf depredations-- 624 00:28:58,133 --> 00:29:00,033 you know, changing pastures, ni ght penning, 625 00:29:00,133 --> 00:29:02,766 changing birthing dates, an d fencing. 626 00:29:02,866 --> 00:29:05,133 Some other no nlethal approaches 627 00:29:05,233 --> 00:29:06,700 that have been used in the past 628 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,900 has been actually th e sterilization of wolves. 629 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,333 They felt if they weren't breeding 630 00:29:12,433 --> 00:29:13,966 and they weren't raising pups, 631 00:29:14,066 --> 00:29:17,000 the energy demands of the pack would be suppressed, 632 00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:20,100 and therefore they wouldn't depredate livestock. 633 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,766 It wasn't proven scientifically with wolves, 634 00:29:24,866 --> 00:29:28,833 but it was a technique used in Utah 635 00:29:28,933 --> 00:29:31,666 with coyotes, where they were able 636 00:29:31,766 --> 00:29:35,800 to actually reduce rates of predation on lambs 637 00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:38,766 from sterilized coyote pairs. 638 00:29:38,866 --> 00:29:41,766 Translocation of problem wolves-- 639 00:29:41,866 --> 00:29:46,100 that was a technique we used prior to 2003. 640 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,600 There was 33 different wolves 641 00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:52,366 that were caught from farms 642 00:29:52,466 --> 00:29:54,566 that were suffering depredations from wolves, 643 00:29:54,666 --> 00:29:56,466 and we moved these long distances 644 00:29:56,566 --> 00:29:58,300 and released them. 645 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,466 It didn't prove to be a very successful technique 646 00:30:01,566 --> 00:30:04,366 because the majority of these animals died 647 00:30:04,466 --> 00:30:08,033 within the first six months of them being released, 648 00:30:08,133 --> 00:30:11,200 but what it did do is, it stimulated nine county boards 649 00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:15,233 to pass resolutions not wanting us or the-- 650 00:30:15,333 --> 00:30:17,700 or the state of Wisconsin 651 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,733 releasing wolves in those counties. 652 00:30:19,833 --> 00:30:22,200 So it-- it was a unpopular technique. 653 00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:23,900 - [chuckles] Yeah. 654 00:30:26,933 --> 00:30:29,533 - That's an image of a radio-activated guard. 655 00:30:29,633 --> 00:30:32,466 It's got a strobe light an d some sirens, 656 00:30:32,566 --> 00:30:35,766 and it's activated by the presence 657 00:30:35,866 --> 00:30:37,733 of a radio-collared wolf. 658 00:30:37,833 --> 00:30:41,233 So it's more of an interactive tool. 659 00:30:41,333 --> 00:30:43,066 It's not going off all night. 660 00:30:43,166 --> 00:30:45,566 We know if the stimuli 661 00:30:45,666 --> 00:30:48,933 is going off repeatedly and consistently, 662 00:30:49,033 --> 00:30:52,466 animals will habituate to that fairly quickly. 663 00:30:52,566 --> 00:30:55,800 But this is-- it's an interaction-- 664 00:30:55,900 --> 00:30:58,866 it's an interaction based on proximity 665 00:30:58,966 --> 00:31:02,033 between wolves and this box from its radio collar 666 00:31:02,133 --> 00:31:05,900 where it sends a signal, and it activates the device. 667 00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:13,066 Potentially, calving nearer buildings 668 00:31:13,166 --> 00:31:14,400 might be something-- 669 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:17,600 a recommendation th at you might consider. 670 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:20,833 It doesn't prove to be 100% effective. 671 00:31:20,933 --> 00:31:24,566 We've had wolves kill livestock ve ry near buildings, 672 00:31:24,666 --> 00:31:27,900 so to say th at this is foolproof 673 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,700 would be inaccurate, 674 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,533 but it's something th at you might consider. 675 00:31:33,633 --> 00:31:35,533 And Mike will talk mo re specifically 676 00:31:35,633 --> 00:31:37,400 about guarding animals. 677 00:31:40,566 --> 00:31:42,366 You know, I' ve talked about 678 00:31:42,466 --> 00:31:44,800 the importance of having an integrated approach 679 00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:47,300 to resolving wolf conflicts. 680 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,833 And right now, 681 00:31:48,933 --> 00:31:50,833 with the federal classification of wolves 682 00:31:50,933 --> 00:31:52,666 as federally endangered, 683 00:31:52,766 --> 00:31:54,866 we can only try to prevent depredations 684 00:31:54,966 --> 00:31:58,300 for folks like you using nonlethal abatement techniques. 685 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,766 And this is a scenario that happened in 2010 686 00:32:01,866 --> 00:32:04,666 in Douglas and Bayfield County. 687 00:32:04,766 --> 00:32:06,833 This is-- that black line represents 688 00:32:06,933 --> 00:32:09,166 the summer territory of a wolf 689 00:32:09,266 --> 00:32:11,333 that Eric had radio-collared 690 00:32:11,433 --> 00:32:14,500 in an attempt to use 691 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,066 a radio-activated guard, 692 00:32:16,166 --> 00:32:19,133 and I'll just walk you through wh at happens. 693 00:32:19,233 --> 00:32:21,633 And so the green represents fo rested cover. 694 00:32:21,733 --> 00:32:25,166 The beige is-- is some type of agriculture, 695 00:32:25,266 --> 00:32:28,700 and the blue's se lf-explanatory; 696 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,066 in the top of the screen is Lake Superior. 697 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,133 So on May 10th, we had wolves kill a calf. 698 00:32:38,233 --> 00:32:40,966 You know, we applied so me nonlethal technique 699 00:32:41,066 --> 00:32:42,733 to try to abate that situation, 700 00:32:42,833 --> 00:32:46,333 try to prevent wolves fr om killing other calves. 701 00:32:46,433 --> 00:32:48,366 Well, it worked there fo r a few weeks, 702 00:32:48,466 --> 00:32:52,333 but over on a neighboring farm, th ey killed a calf. 703 00:32:52,433 --> 00:32:54,900 So we applied some nonlethal ab atement there. 704 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,266 It's fladry, flashing lights, or electronic guards. 705 00:33:00,133 --> 00:33:01,933 And then on the 15th of July, 706 00:33:02,033 --> 00:33:04,933 we had a farmer report wo lves harassing livestock. 707 00:33:05,033 --> 00:33:08,600 We verified that, so we did pr oactive nonlethal abatement 708 00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:11,100 trying to prevent an y depredations 709 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,833 and these secondary effects 710 00:33:12,933 --> 00:33:16,200 that wolves might pose on a particular farm. 711 00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:17,933 So on the second of August, 712 00:33:18,033 --> 00:33:19,900 they depredated livestock 713 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,933 on the north edge of the summer territory, 714 00:33:23,033 --> 00:33:26,300 so we applied no nlethal abatement there. 715 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,866 And then on 8/19, 716 00:33:28,966 --> 00:33:31,700 they actually depredated li vestock on the farm 717 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,633 where we had already applied th is nonlethal abatement, 718 00:33:34,733 --> 00:33:37,500 so that didn't prove to be successful. 719 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,566 And then in September, 720 00:33:40,666 --> 00:33:43,400 another depredation on an adjacent farm, 721 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:45,666 another one a couple of days later. 722 00:33:45,766 --> 00:33:47,266 [stammers] 723 00:33:47,366 --> 00:33:51,200 At this point, we're trying ev erything that we can try. 724 00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:53,733 This is-- th is is the era 725 00:33:53,833 --> 00:33:55,400 when wolves ar e federally lifted, 726 00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:59,000 and we don't have th e authority to remove them, 727 00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:01,166 so... 728 00:34:01,266 --> 00:34:05,300 Another depredation occurs on the 30th of September, 729 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,866 the 10th of Oct-- or the 11th of October, 730 00:34:08,966 --> 00:34:11,133 the 30th of October. 731 00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:18,266 Without the authority 732 00:34:18,366 --> 00:34:21,366 and the ability to have an integrated approach, 733 00:34:21,466 --> 00:34:24,466 that's not successful wolf management. 734 00:34:24,566 --> 00:34:26,466 Spreading the problem 735 00:34:26,566 --> 00:34:30,300 from one producer to another isn't successful. 736 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,133 And at that point, those animals had become so habituated 737 00:34:34,233 --> 00:34:36,333 to these nonlethal techniques 738 00:34:36,433 --> 00:34:38,666 that none of them were being successful. 739 00:34:38,766 --> 00:34:40,666 And I would argue, if you want to talk 740 00:34:40,766 --> 00:34:42,166 about wolf conservation 741 00:34:42,266 --> 00:34:44,500 and these conservation strategies, 742 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:50,000 that-- that pack of wolves did nothing to support 743 00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:52,500 wolf recovery and wolf conservation 744 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,366 when everybody in the community is having problems with them. 745 00:34:57,733 --> 00:34:59,133 Eric, would you like to add anything 746 00:34:59,233 --> 00:35:01,033 to that experience? - No. 747 00:35:01,133 --> 00:35:03,533 [laughter] 748 00:35:03,633 --> 00:35:05,233 - It was a difficult summer. 749 00:35:05,333 --> 00:35:08,400 - How many of those wolves died accidentally? 750 00:35:08,500 --> 00:35:10,433 - [laughs] 751 00:35:10,533 --> 00:35:12,000 - Pardon me? [laughter] 752 00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:15,700 - How many of those wolves died accidentally? 753 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,600 - Uh, I don't know. - Do you refuse to answer? 754 00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:24,500 - I forget-- that was W-757, and I think-- 755 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,766 maybe that winter, it went off of the air. 756 00:35:26,866 --> 00:35:30,233 I forget what happened to it. 757 00:35:30,333 --> 00:35:32,366 But that is-- that is a real-life example. 758 00:35:32,466 --> 00:35:35,533 I think that's a fairly compelling story that-- 759 00:35:35,633 --> 00:35:37,566 that trying to resolve these conflicts 760 00:35:37,666 --> 00:35:40,066 with nonlethal abatement strategies-- 761 00:35:40,166 --> 00:35:43,733 although, we can select a farm-- maybe it's a single farm. 762 00:35:43,833 --> 00:35:46,466 It's isolated. It's relatively small. 763 00:35:46,566 --> 00:35:49,766 We can stop wolf depredations to livestock 764 00:35:49,866 --> 00:35:53,433 with these nonlethal tools relatively efficiently, 765 00:35:53,533 --> 00:35:55,600 but there are these scenarios that occur 766 00:35:55,700 --> 00:36:00,100 where nothing in the realm of nonlethal is practical. 767 00:36:02,066 --> 00:36:04,500 In northern Wisconsin, 768 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,000 we conduct tribal co-investigations 769 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:10,000 of wolf complaints. 770 00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:11,666 The Menominee, St ockbridge-Munsee, 771 00:36:11,766 --> 00:36:14,366 and the Ojibwe nations 772 00:36:14,466 --> 00:36:16,733 value, cu lturally and spiritually, 773 00:36:16,833 --> 00:36:18,833 wolves very highly. 774 00:36:18,933 --> 00:36:22,533 If we have a depredation wi thin six miles 775 00:36:22,633 --> 00:36:27,100 of tribal lands-- of these tribal lands, 776 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,100 we will co-investigate th e complaint 777 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,266 with the tribal biologist. 778 00:36:32,366 --> 00:36:34,100 So we do an on the ground-- 779 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,200 boots-on-the-ground evaluation of the conflict. 780 00:36:37,300 --> 00:36:40,866 So if we're starting to talk ab out abatement strategies, 781 00:36:40,966 --> 00:36:43,200 we have the tribal biologist on board, 782 00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:44,866 so when we start talking-- 783 00:36:44,966 --> 00:36:48,733 potentially, given the era in which we're at, 784 00:36:48,833 --> 00:36:51,333 whether it's federally delisted or listed, 785 00:36:51,433 --> 00:36:53,000 they can be part of the determination 786 00:36:53,100 --> 00:36:56,300 as to what we're going to do to resolve that issue. 787 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,666 We had talked about ca rcass disposal, 788 00:37:00,766 --> 00:37:02,333 proper carcass-- 789 00:37:02,433 --> 00:37:04,866 proper carcass disposal te chniques. 790 00:37:04,966 --> 00:37:08,133 The-- th e image on the left, 791 00:37:08,233 --> 00:37:10,966 that's an im properly disposed of cow, 792 00:37:11,066 --> 00:37:14,066 and those tracks coming into it ar e wolf tracks. 793 00:37:14,166 --> 00:37:16,866 That could probably pr edispose you 794 00:37:16,966 --> 00:37:18,900 to wolf predation, wh en you start 795 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,700 to calve on those pastures in the spring. 796 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,866 It's-- it's a very important topic, 797 00:37:23,966 --> 00:37:26,433 and it's a very difficult issue to deal with 798 00:37:26,533 --> 00:37:29,633 that you folks have to deal with in the winter months. 799 00:37:33,133 --> 00:37:36,200 Just a time frame of this on again/off again 800 00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:40,533 federal status of wolves in Wisconsin. 801 00:37:40,633 --> 00:37:42,733 You've seen that earlier. 802 00:37:44,466 --> 00:37:48,000 Wolves captured and killed fo r depredation management 803 00:37:48,100 --> 00:37:51,833 by USDA Wildlife Services an d the Wisconsin DNR 804 00:37:51,933 --> 00:37:54,966 from 1974 to 2015. 805 00:37:55,066 --> 00:37:58,000 There's been 39 7 wolves captured 806 00:37:58,100 --> 00:37:59,666 for conflict management, 807 00:37:59,766 --> 00:38:03,133 and 335 of those animals 808 00:38:03,233 --> 00:38:05,433 were euthanized. 809 00:38:05,533 --> 00:38:07,933 An integrated site-specific 810 00:38:08,033 --> 00:38:09,933 wolf depredation management pr ogram 811 00:38:10,033 --> 00:38:13,433 has nothing to do with population level control. 812 00:38:13,533 --> 00:38:16,266 It is not our objective to have any impact 813 00:38:16,366 --> 00:38:19,333 on the overall statewide wolf population. 814 00:38:19,433 --> 00:38:21,666 It is to resolve your conflict, 815 00:38:21,766 --> 00:38:24,000 not to reduce the wolf population. 816 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:25,600 Generally speaking, 817 00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:29,266 when we have a year of full lethal control, 818 00:38:29,366 --> 00:38:32,933 we will remove between 5% and 10% 819 00:38:33,033 --> 00:38:36,266 of that minimum estimated wolf population 820 00:38:36,366 --> 00:38:38,300 from the previous winter. 821 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,633 I would like to also add to this 822 00:38:41,733 --> 00:38:44,833 that site-specific lethal control 823 00:38:44,933 --> 00:38:48,933 for wolf conflict abatement has had nothing to do-- 824 00:38:49,033 --> 00:38:51,700 or has had no negative impact 825 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,400 on wolf recovery in the state of Wisconsin. 826 00:38:59,433 --> 00:39:01,900 You folks saw this image earlier. 827 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,400 I mean, what it speaks to is, 828 00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:07,900 those years wh en we had the authority 829 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,166 to lethally remove wolves in 2002 through 2008 830 00:39:13,266 --> 00:39:15,833 and then in '12, '13, and '14, 831 00:39:15,933 --> 00:39:17,466 you can obviously see that 832 00:39:17,566 --> 00:39:20,133 the population growth line is increasing 833 00:39:20,233 --> 00:39:23,800 while we had the authority to lethally remove animals. 834 00:39:29,166 --> 00:39:32,000 Some weird wolf conflicts, 835 00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:34,333 you know, some no n-predation-related things. 836 00:39:34,433 --> 00:39:37,166 This is a silage bag in Marinette County 837 00:39:37,266 --> 00:39:39,666 that a pair of wolves ha d ran up the side of, 838 00:39:39,766 --> 00:39:42,000 and their nails had punctured th at silage bag. 839 00:39:42,100 --> 00:39:44,700 And you can see where th e farmer had taped the bag. 840 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,033 And you all know wh at that means to you, 841 00:39:47,133 --> 00:39:49,200 when you have a punctured silage bag. 842 00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:52,333 You know, these are right near the barnyard. 843 00:39:52,433 --> 00:39:55,833 Just-- just some non-livestock-related 844 00:39:55,933 --> 00:39:57,700 wolf incidences that-- 845 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,266 that do-- that do occur. 846 00:40:00,366 --> 00:40:04,166 Um, you know, so when we go back to 1908, 847 00:40:04,266 --> 00:40:08,033 that first scientifically... 848 00:40:08,133 --> 00:40:09,633 I wouldn't call it pe er-reviewed 849 00:40:09,733 --> 00:40:12,966 but an effort to demonstrate 850 00:40:13,066 --> 00:40:17,200 predator management tools ba ck in 1908, 851 00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:20,333 to today, in 2014, 852 00:40:20,433 --> 00:40:23,333 we still have scientists th at work both 853 00:40:23,433 --> 00:40:25,700 for our agency an d other agencies 854 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,233 that are trying to develop th ese tools and techniques 855 00:40:29,333 --> 00:40:31,566 to prevent la rge carnivores-- 856 00:40:31,666 --> 00:40:34,233 grizzly bears, bl ack bears, cougars, 857 00:40:34,333 --> 00:40:36,700 wolves, and coyotes-- fr om depredating livestock, 858 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,500 so there is still effort out there, folks, 859 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,166 that people are spending a fair amount of time on 860 00:40:42,266 --> 00:40:45,500 trying to develop techniques to resolve these conflicts. 861 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,133 And this 2014 just represents another one of those efforts. 862 00:40:49,233 --> 00:40:52,433 Dr. John Shivik has devoted a lot of his career 863 00:40:52,533 --> 00:40:54,433 to investigating techniques 864 00:40:54,533 --> 00:40:57,133 to prevent livestock depredations. 865 00:40:59,433 --> 00:41:02,033 I know that's very quick. It's a lot of information. 866 00:41:02,133 --> 00:41:05,133 We could talk about this topic for a very long time, 867 00:41:05,233 --> 00:41:08,666 but we can go over some of the stuff at the field day 868 00:41:08,766 --> 00:41:12,800 with Eric, but at this point, 869 00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:14,966 before I open it up to questions, 870 00:41:15,066 --> 00:41:17,766 on the back are some magnets, 871 00:41:17,866 --> 00:41:19,533 and if you want, grab one of those. 872 00:41:19,633 --> 00:41:23,633 Those have our 1-800 hotline numbers on them. 873 00:41:23,733 --> 00:41:25,800 And so if you suspect that you have 874 00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:28,000 a wolf or a bear depredation, 875 00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:30,333 it'd be nice for you to have that on your refrigerator 876 00:41:30,433 --> 00:41:32,166 so you know the number to call. 877 00:41:32,266 --> 00:41:33,733 We monitor those numbers 878 00:41:33,833 --> 00:41:36,900 seven days a week, 365 days a year. 879 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,733 If it's a holiday or a weekend, there's someone assigned 880 00:41:39,833 --> 00:41:43,400 to call in and check voice mail every couple of hours 881 00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:46,966 to see if we've received a wolf or a bear complaint. 882 00:41:47,066 --> 00:41:50,366 So it's 365-day-a-year service. 883 00:41:50,466 --> 00:41:52,833 So grab one of those on your way out. 884 00:41:52,933 --> 00:41:55,266 And some of the packages-- packets that you got 885 00:41:55,366 --> 00:41:57,966 on your way in, they just contain 886 00:41:58,066 --> 00:42:00,466 a lot of information about our agency and program, 887 00:42:00,566 --> 00:42:02,866 not only about bears and wolves but some of 888 00:42:02,966 --> 00:42:05,266 the other stuff we do that might be useful for you. 889 00:42:05,366 --> 00:42:07,533 So I encourage you to grab one of those 890 00:42:07,633 --> 00:42:08,866 and take it home. 891 00:42:08,966 --> 00:42:11,033 So at that, I've got a little bit of time, 892 00:42:11,133 --> 00:42:12,866 if there's any questions. 893 00:42:12,966 --> 00:42:14,966 [applause]