WEBVTT 00:02.466 --> 00:06.533 align:left position:17.5% line:83% size:72.5% - Welcome to this theater, the first theater panel, 00:06.633 --> 00:09.966 align:left position:20% line:83% size:70% the only theater panel at Cap Times Idea Fest 2019. 00:10.066 --> 00:11.366 align:left position:32.5% line:83% size:57.5% I am your host, Lindsay Christians, 00:11.466 --> 00:12.766 align:left position:27.5% line:83% size:62.5% I have been writing about the arts 00:12.866 --> 00:14.766 align:left position:15% line:89% size:75% for theCap Timessince 2008, 00:16.133 --> 00:18.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% which is also the year I graduated from this institution 00:18.400 --> 00:19.733 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% with a master's in theater research, 00:19.833 --> 00:22.500 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% so my theater training comes from here. 00:23.500 --> 00:25.133 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% You know, go Badgers! 00:25.233 --> 00:27.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So, today, we're gonna be talking about what happens 00:27.433 --> 00:30.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% when predominately white, non-disabled companies 00:30.466 --> 00:32.133 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% diversify the stories they tell 00:32.233 --> 00:33.866 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% and the artists that they work with. 00:33.966 --> 00:36.566 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And I'm gonna read you just a few bios of my panelists 00:36.666 --> 00:39.900 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% who are wonderful, and I'm so glad that you're all here, 00:40.000 --> 00:41.466 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% in whatever way you can be. 00:42.666 --> 00:44.633 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% Marti Gobel, right here on the phone, 00:44.733 --> 00:46.933 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% is an actor, director, and teaching artist 00:47.033 --> 00:48.166 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% based in Milwaukee. 00:48.266 --> 00:49.766 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% She was a resident teaching artist 00:49.866 --> 00:51.366 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% with Renaissance Theaterworks, 00:51.466 --> 00:54.033 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and has performed with Milwaukee Repertory Theater, 00:54.133 --> 00:56.700 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% Next Act Theatre, Milwaukee Chamber Theatre, 00:56.800 --> 00:57.866 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and many others. 00:58.933 --> 01:00.533 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% In Madison, she directedExit Strategy 01:00.633 --> 01:02.033 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% for Forward Theater. 01:02.133 --> 01:04.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% She starred in Forward's  Skeleton Crewlast season 01:04.633 --> 01:07.300 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and she performed in  No Childwith Theatre LILA 01:07.400 --> 01:09.233 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% a few years ago, you saw that. 01:09.333 --> 01:11.733 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% She's a proud member of The Actors' Equity Association 01:11.833 --> 01:13.433 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and the Screen Actors Guild, 01:13.533 --> 01:16.533 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. 01:18.400 --> 01:21.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Loryn Jonelis, over here, is a film and stage actor 01:22.033 --> 01:24.233 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and choreographer in the Madison area. 01:24.333 --> 01:26.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% He has appeared on stage as transgender characters 01:26.666 --> 01:29.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% in StageQ'sStandards of Careand cisgender characters 01:29.733 --> 01:31.633 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% as inSweet William at Broom Street Theater 01:31.733 --> 01:32.866 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% andThe Mineola Twins 01:32.966 --> 01:34.966 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% with Kathie Rasmussen Women's Theatre. 01:35.066 --> 01:37.400 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% He likes sharks, the color green, and teaching. 01:37.500 --> 01:39.633 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% [all laughing] 01:39.733 --> 01:43.033 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% Lori Kido Lopez is an associate professor 01:43.133 --> 01:44.566 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% of media and cultural studies 01:44.666 --> 01:46.500 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, 01:46.600 --> 01:49.866 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% where she studies race and representation in the media. 01:49.966 --> 01:52.666 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% She studies how women, people of color, and queer communities 01:52.766 --> 01:55.933 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% use media in the fight for social justice. 01:56.033 --> 01:59.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% In 2014, Lori founded The Race and Media Conference. 01:59.966 --> 02:02.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% She's the author ofAsian American Media Activism: 02:02.466 --> 02:05.366 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% Fighting for Cultural Citizenshipand co-editor 02:05.466 --> 02:07.633 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% ofThe Routledge Companion to Asian American Media. 02:07.733 --> 02:09.100 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% Welcome, Lori. - Thanks. 02:10.333 --> 02:12.466 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% - Kathleen Tissot here, on my right, 02:12.566 --> 02:14.333 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% has been involved on and off stage 02:14.433 --> 02:16.133 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% with various Madison theater companies 02:16.233 --> 02:18.400 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% for the past 20 plus years. 02:18.500 --> 02:21.466 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% For 15 of those years, she was the speech pathologist 02:21.566 --> 02:25.766 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and drama advisor/play director at Oregon High School. 02:25.866 --> 02:27.600 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% There, she developed a social skills program 02:27.700 --> 02:29.666 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% for students on the autism spectrum 02:29.766 --> 02:33.066 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and strive for inclusivity in the theater drama program. 02:33.166 --> 02:34.400 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% She recently directed 02:34.500 --> 02:36.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time 02:36.300 --> 02:39.266 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% for Strollers Theatre, starring a former student of hers 02:39.366 --> 02:40.900 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% who is on the autism spectrum. 02:41.966 --> 02:44.000 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% Welcome, Kathleen. - Thanks. 02:44.100 --> 02:48.000 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% - So I wanna start by framing this discussion a little bit. 02:48.100 --> 02:51.400 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% We talk about whose stories get told, who tells them, 02:51.500 --> 02:54.800 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% who is watching and listening, and within that context, 02:54.900 --> 02:57.900 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% diversity can mean a lot of different things. 02:58.000 --> 03:01.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% Diversity and inclusion are not the same, 03:01.200 --> 03:04.666 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% just like equality and equity are not the same. 03:04.766 --> 03:06.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% So the way I think of it is that 03:06.566 --> 03:08.633 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% diversity is a movie likeThe Help, 03:08.733 --> 03:10.833 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% which has this white savior narrative, 03:10.933 --> 03:13.300 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and inclusion is maybe a film likeMoonlight, 03:13.400 --> 03:15.333 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% where we have a black gay playwright 03:15.433 --> 03:17.100 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% telling this coming-of-age story. 03:18.566 --> 03:21.466 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% To make a theater connection, diversity isMiss Saigon 03:21.566 --> 03:24.433 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and inclusion is Qui Nguyen'sVietgone. 03:24.533 --> 03:27.066 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% So, to kinda bring it back to theater a little bit. 03:27.166 --> 03:28.633 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% My first question is for Marti. 03:28.733 --> 03:30.600 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% Hi, Marti, can you still hear? 03:31.666 --> 03:33.700 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - I am still here. - Awesome. 03:33.800 --> 03:34.933 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% I was hoping that actually 03:35.033 --> 03:36.466 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% that you could start the conversation 03:36.566 --> 03:38.466 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% because you do speak about this pretty frequently, 03:38.566 --> 03:41.133 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% about the need for more diverse representation onstage, 03:41.233 --> 03:44.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and you've worked so extensively here in Wisconsin. 03:44.366 --> 03:47.100 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% How do you distinguish between diversity and inclusion 03:47.200 --> 03:48.966 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% in regional theater companies? 03:49.066 --> 03:52.600 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% - Marti: Okay, let me say that 03:52.700 --> 03:54.666 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% of course we are working very, very, 03:56.233 --> 03:59.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% I think, rigorously to increase diversity 03:59.666 --> 04:01.800 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% as far as the stages in Wisconsin, 04:01.900 --> 04:03.900 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% but we have not reached a point of inclusion 04:04.000 --> 04:05.666 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% in my personal opinion. 04:05.766 --> 04:09.000 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And what I mean by that is that we have diverse stories 04:09.100 --> 04:10.500 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% that are being told, 04:10.600 --> 04:12.400 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% we have directors that are telling diverse stories 04:12.500 --> 04:13.866 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and helping to aid in that, 04:13.966 --> 04:16.333 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% we certainly have a diverse talent pool. 04:16.433 --> 04:18.333 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% But what we don't have is inclusion 04:18.433 --> 04:21.733 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% in those that are in positions of power 04:21.833 --> 04:25.300 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% or those that are directing plays that are outside those 04:25.400 --> 04:29.833 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% that include diverse cast and story. 04:29.933 --> 04:32.933 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And so, that's an issue that I think we need to look at. 04:33.033 --> 04:36.466 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% - Yeah, I think I remember hearing it in the context 04:36.566 --> 04:40.133 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% of like when sort of a classical theater company 04:40.233 --> 04:43.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% hires an African-American director to direct something 04:43.166 --> 04:46.166 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% that's not an August Wilson play, that's like a Shakespeare. 04:47.666 --> 04:48.833 align:left position:42.5% line:71% size:47.5% - Yes. - Yeah. 04:50.000 --> 04:51.133 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - Marti: Shakespeare is more universal 04:51.233 --> 04:54.733 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and I know that they've done, at the APT, 04:54.833 --> 04:57.333 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% they've done  Our Country's Good, 04:57.433 --> 04:58.800 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% but what you're still looking at 04:58.900 --> 05:03.200 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% is people that are including casts of folks of color. 05:03.300 --> 05:05.733 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% Not necessarily, we haven't seen a person of color 05:05.833 --> 05:07.200 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% direct, say,Buried Child. 05:08.300 --> 05:09.966 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% - Ah, the Sam Shepard play. 05:11.133 --> 05:12.800 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% - Marti: Or Sam Shepard or Tennessee Williams, 05:12.900 --> 05:14.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% this is the kind of thing that I'm talking about. 05:14.933 --> 05:16.266 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% - Got it, okay. 05:16.366 --> 05:17.533 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% Thank you. 05:18.800 --> 05:21.633 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% Loryn, you've played sort of both cisgender 05:21.733 --> 05:23.700 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% and transgender characters on stage, 05:23.800 --> 05:27.900 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and I wonder for you, what are the challenges and rewards 05:28.000 --> 05:29.733 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% of playing a character who may be negotiating 05:29.833 --> 05:32.333 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% their gender identity as a character? 05:35.000 --> 05:36.166 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% - Last, I mean... 05:36.266 --> 05:38.000 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% When I first played a transgender character, 05:38.100 --> 05:40.166 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I did not identify as trans, 05:40.266 --> 05:45.033 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and so, that allowed me to explore that in myself 05:45.133 --> 05:47.866 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and kind of use that to grow. 05:49.166 --> 05:51.400 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% Playing a cisgender character, that's just kind of, 05:51.500 --> 05:55.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I feel like it's what you want as a trans actor, 05:55.433 --> 05:56.933 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% to just be able to play a character, 05:57.033 --> 05:59.966 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% it doesn't matter if they're male, 06:00.066 --> 06:01.733 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% female, transgender or not. 06:01.833 --> 06:03.500 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% I mean, it doesn't matter, 06:03.600 --> 06:05.533 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% you just wanna play the character. 06:05.633 --> 06:09.033 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% And to play those, I think that's been the... 06:10.333 --> 06:12.366 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% I guess, the dream, we'll say. 06:12.466 --> 06:14.400 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% 'Cause a lot of the times, 06:14.500 --> 06:17.533 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% you're pegged as just playing a trans character. 06:18.533 --> 06:20.433 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% I think I feel like I fit right into like, 06:20.533 --> 06:22.466 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% I always play teenage boys. 06:22.566 --> 06:25.433 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% I'm still like, between a lot of phases 06:25.533 --> 06:27.833 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% because I just started testosterone, 06:27.933 --> 06:29.933 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% I can't really grow facial hair yet. 06:30.033 --> 06:31.333 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% Granted, I may never. 06:31.433 --> 06:35.800 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% So, that's another issue with how you cast 06:35.900 --> 06:37.366 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% based on appearance, 06:37.466 --> 06:41.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and I think that has been the challenge 06:41.366 --> 06:44.600 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% with that in general. 06:46.066 --> 06:48.300 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% - When you think about what roles you're going out for, 06:48.400 --> 06:51.000 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% if you were gonna be handing your, 06:51.100 --> 06:53.700 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% I keep thinking CV, that's the wrong word. 06:53.800 --> 06:54.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But you know, same thing. 06:54.900 --> 06:56.200 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% [laughing] 06:56.300 --> 06:58.400 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I mean, what you wanna use pronouns on it? 07:00.433 --> 07:05.066 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% - At this point, yes, I still get misgendered, 07:05.166 --> 07:07.566 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% so I would wanna use pronouns. 07:07.666 --> 07:11.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But once that stops being a thing, then I don't care. 07:11.466 --> 07:12.933 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% For me, at least. 07:13.033 --> 07:16.566 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And that is also something that changes person to person, 07:16.666 --> 07:19.666 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% whether you wanna use the pronouns or not. 07:19.766 --> 07:20.933 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Nice, thank you. 07:22.733 --> 07:24.666 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% Lori, I wanted to talk with you 07:24.766 --> 07:27.033 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% about what are some of the pitfalls, 07:27.133 --> 07:29.600 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% that when predominately white organizations 07:29.700 --> 07:31.033 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% will reach out to communities of color 07:31.133 --> 07:33.766 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% to wanna involve them. 07:33.866 --> 07:36.133 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% What are some of the things that can go wrong 07:36.233 --> 07:38.833 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and maybe go right in those situations? 07:38.933 --> 07:41.266 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% - Yeah, I have a couple of suggestions about that, 07:41.366 --> 07:42.966 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and since I'm more of a community member 07:43.066 --> 07:46.933 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% than a theater professional, I can speak to that experience. 07:47.033 --> 07:49.900 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% So I think that it's a great idea to reach out 07:50.000 --> 07:52.400 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% to community members if you're putting on a play 07:53.566 --> 07:56.300 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% that you think will maybe be controversial 07:56.400 --> 07:59.633 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% or something that you want to bring more voices in on. 07:59.733 --> 08:01.300 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% And there's some good ways to do that 08:01.400 --> 08:03.700 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and some less good ways to do that. 08:03.800 --> 08:05.800 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% I would say the first thing to think about 08:05.900 --> 08:08.233 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% is that if you are inviting community members in 08:08.333 --> 08:10.566 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% to do like a talk back or a program, 08:10.666 --> 08:12.233 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% then you should actually be open 08:12.333 --> 08:14.533 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% to listening to what they have to say. 08:14.633 --> 08:17.066 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% So, this is not the kind of situation 08:17.166 --> 08:20.033 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% where you should think about being controlling 08:20.133 --> 08:21.933 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% or limiting what they're gonna say, 08:22.033 --> 08:24.533 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% because, you know, the reality is you're bringing them in 08:24.633 --> 08:26.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to do some critical work 08:26.233 --> 08:27.900 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% or to challenge what's been going on. 08:28.000 --> 08:29.333 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% If there wasn't a problem, 08:29.433 --> 08:31.533 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% you probably wouldn't have invited them in the first place. 08:31.633 --> 08:34.033 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% So, actually being open to listening 08:34.133 --> 08:35.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to what they have to say 08:35.400 --> 08:37.266 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and respecting what people have to say, 08:37.366 --> 08:40.133 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% if you do that work of inviting them into your space. 08:41.300 --> 08:43.566 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I also think that, you know, this happens a lot 08:43.666 --> 08:46.066 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% when a theater group is putting on something 08:46.166 --> 08:48.466 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% that they think that people might be upset about, 08:48.566 --> 08:52.366 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% but that a lot of groundwork could happen proactively 08:52.466 --> 08:53.900 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% before that happens. 08:54.000 --> 08:56.966 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% So instead of waiting until you are afraid 08:57.066 --> 08:59.366 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% that somebody from the community might be upset, 08:59.466 --> 09:01.633 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% actually proactively building relationships 09:01.733 --> 09:03.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% in minority communities, 09:03.200 --> 09:06.100 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% thinking about who is not already not being represented, 09:06.200 --> 09:08.100 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% or whose voices are being left out, 09:08.200 --> 09:09.533 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% thinking about how that makes them feel 09:09.633 --> 09:10.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and how you can reach out 09:10.966 --> 09:12.900 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and make sure they are part of your community. 09:13.000 --> 09:15.300 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% And that you know who these people are 09:15.400 --> 09:18.166 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and that you have meaningful connections with them 09:18.266 --> 09:19.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% before a crisis comes up, 09:19.933 --> 09:21.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and then all the sudden, you're turning to them 09:21.733 --> 09:23.400 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% to solve a problem for you. 09:23.500 --> 09:25.833 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% That's not the best relationship to have, 09:25.933 --> 09:28.900 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% if that's at all possible. 09:29.000 --> 09:31.700 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And then I think it's also just important to remember 09:31.800 --> 09:34.166 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% that these people that you are calling in 09:34.266 --> 09:37.100 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% to do this kind of work, it can be really hard labor. 09:37.200 --> 09:41.066 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% It's difficult intellectual labor and emotional labor. 09:41.166 --> 09:43.366 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% People of color and people of other minority backgrounds 09:43.466 --> 09:46.200 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% spend their entire lives being expected to educate people 09:46.300 --> 09:48.433 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% about their experiences and their struggles 09:48.533 --> 09:51.400 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and all the things that they should know about them. 09:51.500 --> 09:52.833 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And that's really difficult work 09:52.933 --> 09:54.733 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% that is often uncompensated. 09:55.733 --> 09:57.300 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% So, just recognizing that a lot of people 09:57.400 --> 10:00.500 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% might not be interested in doing that kind of labor for you 10:00.600 --> 10:02.166 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and to keep trying. 10:02.266 --> 10:05.200 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% There are lots of people who are very eager and willing 10:05.300 --> 10:09.700 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% to be ambassadors and educators and do that kind of work. 10:09.800 --> 10:10.966 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% So, it's just about knowing 10:11.066 --> 10:13.700 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% that you may encounter that kind of response, 10:13.800 --> 10:17.033 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% but to not let that make you feel 10:17.133 --> 10:18.666 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% like you should give up on the enterprise. 10:18.766 --> 10:22.166 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And then also to think about how white people 10:22.266 --> 10:24.533 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and people of other majority identities 10:24.633 --> 10:26.766 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and privileged identities, should also be always working 10:26.866 --> 10:29.200 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% to educate themselves, also proactively. 10:29.300 --> 10:32.000 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% And not just kind of sitting back and waiting 10:32.100 --> 10:34.400 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% for someone to come and educate you, 10:34.500 --> 10:37.433 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% but to do that work of educating yourself 10:37.533 --> 10:39.566 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and trying to put yourself in the best position 10:39.666 --> 10:41.300 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% to be more open and receptive 10:41.400 --> 10:44.166 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% to whatever it is that you will continue learning 10:44.266 --> 10:47.300 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% once you're actually engaging with people of color. 10:47.400 --> 10:49.100 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% - Thank you. - Yeah. 10:49.200 --> 10:53.433 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% - Kathleen, my question for you is aboutCurious Incident 10:53.533 --> 10:56.133 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and working with the young performer that you did, 10:57.200 --> 10:59.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I wonder if you could just frame that a little bit 10:59.433 --> 11:02.166 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and talk about why that project was important to you? 11:03.600 --> 11:05.133 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% -Curious Incident was important to me 11:05.233 --> 11:06.633 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% on many, many levels. 11:08.233 --> 11:11.866 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% My career has been in speech pathology, 11:11.966 --> 11:14.400 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% which deals frequently with kids 11:14.500 --> 11:16.366 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% with social skills on the autism spectrum, 11:16.466 --> 11:18.366 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and that goes way back. 11:18.466 --> 11:20.633 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% My nine-year-old grandson has autism. 11:22.166 --> 11:23.333 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% I have some of... 11:23.433 --> 11:24.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% The people that... 11:24.666 --> 11:26.233 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% The best people I've worked with have autism. 11:26.333 --> 11:27.700 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% So, it had a lot of things. 11:27.800 --> 11:29.533 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And the thing about the play that attracted me, 11:29.633 --> 11:32.566 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% was that it has a very hopeful ending. 11:32.666 --> 11:36.100 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% He says, "I did this and this and this and this and this. 11:36.200 --> 11:38.800 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% "That means I can do anything, right?" 11:38.900 --> 11:40.633 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% And she doesn't really answer him, 11:40.733 --> 11:41.833 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% but you get the feeling 11:41.933 --> 11:43.533 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% like he really believes he can do anything, 11:43.633 --> 11:44.733 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% which is the coolest thing 11:44.833 --> 11:46.666 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% that you can possibly hope for somebody. 11:46.766 --> 11:48.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Okay, that's one reason. 11:48.733 --> 11:51.300 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% And the second one was I knew early on, 11:51.400 --> 11:52.900 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% once I knew I was gonna direct it, 11:53.000 --> 11:56.500 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% that I wanted to, if at all possible, 11:56.600 --> 11:58.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I wanted to have somebody on the autism spectrum. 11:58.566 --> 12:04.300 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% I know a lot of people who have that neurodifference, 12:06.600 --> 12:08.566 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% but Peyton was a former student of mine. 12:08.666 --> 12:11.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% He was in the last play that I directed at Oregon, 12:11.200 --> 12:12.966 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% and he's a very talented young man 12:13.066 --> 12:14.433 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% with a great interest in theater. 12:14.533 --> 12:17.066 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% He wanted to go to college and major in theater. 12:17.166 --> 12:19.233 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% So, when this came up, 12:19.333 --> 12:21.666 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I contacted him and a couple other people that I knew 12:21.766 --> 12:24.333 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and I auditioned them, way, way ahead of time. 12:24.433 --> 12:27.766 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And Peyton was the choice. 12:27.866 --> 12:30.300 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% If Peyton had not been in the picture, 12:30.400 --> 12:31.600 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and I just auditioned 12:31.700 --> 12:33.633 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% these other couple people that I had, 12:34.633 --> 12:36.466 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% I think I might have gone a different route, 12:36.566 --> 12:39.733 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% which is, you know, maybe... 12:40.800 --> 12:41.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I would have used it more 12:42.000 --> 12:43.366 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% as a consulting and learning thing. 12:43.466 --> 12:46.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But it was important for me to try to find somebody, 12:46.666 --> 12:47.733 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% a first choice. 12:47.833 --> 12:49.000 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - Lindsay: Ah, I see. 12:50.466 --> 12:53.766 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% - And Peyton was just the right person for that role, 12:53.866 --> 12:55.100 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% he really was, so. 12:55.200 --> 12:56.700 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Lindsay: It took him a little longer 12:56.800 --> 12:58.000 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% to get ready for it, right? 12:58.100 --> 12:59.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% Like he took extra time to prepare? 12:59.666 --> 13:04.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% - Actually, I thought it might, because I auditioned him 13:04.533 --> 13:06.200 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% probably nine months before anybody else. 13:06.300 --> 13:07.466 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Lindsay: Oh, wow. 13:07.566 --> 13:09.933 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% - Thinking that way he could learn the role, 13:10.033 --> 13:11.366 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% like could do all this stuff, 13:11.466 --> 13:14.033 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% he didn't even look at the script until after it was cast. 13:14.133 --> 13:15.033 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% [laughing] 13:15.133 --> 13:16.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And I was like "Peyton!" 13:17.900 --> 13:19.300 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% He has a lot of-- 13:19.400 --> 13:21.900 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% He has a really good ability to learn things quickly, 13:22.000 --> 13:24.300 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% he's the first one off book, he's the first one all that, 13:24.400 --> 13:27.366 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% but I wanted to make sure that he knew 13:27.466 --> 13:30.033 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% and had time to adjust if he needed. 13:30.133 --> 13:31.800 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% He's very self-aware, 13:32.800 --> 13:35.700 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and when you cast somebody in a role like that, 13:35.800 --> 13:37.500 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% I think it's very helpful to have someone 13:37.600 --> 13:40.766 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% who is able to follow direction and be self-aware 13:40.866 --> 13:43.233 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and not everybody is, everybody's different. 13:43.333 --> 13:44.600 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% And you have to... 13:44.700 --> 13:46.000 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% Everybody is a person, 13:46.100 --> 13:47.333 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and everyone's got a different background 13:47.433 --> 13:48.466 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and abilities and all that. 13:48.566 --> 13:51.066 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And when you're putting a show together, 13:51.166 --> 13:53.366 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% you do need to have certain things, 13:53.466 --> 13:55.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% like can the person follow directions? 13:55.666 --> 13:58.900 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% Can the person have self-awareness 13:59.000 --> 14:00.266 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% to be able to introspective 14:00.366 --> 14:02.033 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and see how they're different from this character? 14:02.133 --> 14:05.500 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And Peyton is very definitely different from the character, 14:06.900 --> 14:09.566 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% but he didn't need the time after all, he just... 14:09.666 --> 14:11.800 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - That's so great. - He's awesome. 14:11.900 --> 14:14.400 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - So, Marti, I have a question for you. 14:15.400 --> 14:17.966 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% - Marti: I would love to have it. 14:18.066 --> 14:19.733 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% [all laughing] 14:20.733 --> 14:23.366 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% - What are the barriers to regional theaters producing 14:23.466 --> 14:27.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% more stories that are by, about, and for people of color 14:27.333 --> 14:30.300 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% and maybe what are some of the techniques that have worked? 14:31.633 --> 14:34.033 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - Marti: I think the major barrier for me 14:34.133 --> 14:35.966 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% is I'm kind of wading through this, 14:36.066 --> 14:38.433 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% both as a director and as an actor, 14:38.533 --> 14:45.866 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% is that in order to competently show stories 14:45.966 --> 14:47.733 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% that are including people of color, 14:47.833 --> 14:51.166 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% they need to be able to have cut their teeth 14:51.266 --> 14:54.200 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% on other lead roles. 14:54.300 --> 14:56.700 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% So that you can't just have them come out 14:56.800 --> 14:58.633 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and play a lead role for the first time 14:58.733 --> 15:02.033 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% after doing years and years and years of supporting roles 15:02.133 --> 15:04.666 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% in shows that aren't necessarily designed 15:04.766 --> 15:07.500 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% to represent people of color on stage. 15:07.600 --> 15:09.466 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% So then it begins to be a problem 15:09.566 --> 15:14.400 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% when it dominoes to the point where you have actors 15:14.500 --> 15:18.333 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% that haven't been given the opportunity to take lead. 15:18.433 --> 15:22.433 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% And so, I think the answer to that is twofold, 15:22.533 --> 15:26.133 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% that we need to be including also in Shakespeare, 15:26.233 --> 15:28.433 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% actors that are given lead roles, 15:28.533 --> 15:30.600 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% so that when they step into roles 15:31.600 --> 15:36.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that require them to hold a role in a leading way, 15:37.466 --> 15:38.800 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% that they are properly trained and prepared 15:38.900 --> 15:41.100 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and have the muscles in order to do that. 15:43.033 --> 15:46.900 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% We need more people of color in power, 15:47.000 --> 15:49.166 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% so that they're selecting these shows, 15:49.266 --> 15:51.266 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% so that they're hiring directors, 15:51.366 --> 15:54.266 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% so that they're making sure that rooms, 15:54.366 --> 15:57.700 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% which we have a serious problem with this in Wisconsin, 15:57.800 --> 15:59.900 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% are not just echo chambers. 16:00.000 --> 16:02.533 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% It's not enough to just voice your support 16:02.633 --> 16:03.933 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% for other communities, 16:04.033 --> 16:06.366 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% it's important to also be involved in them. 16:06.466 --> 16:09.900 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And that, getting back to your question about inclusion. 16:10.000 --> 16:11.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So, right now, Wisconsin, 16:13.133 --> 16:15.666 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% at the upper levels concerning theater, 16:17.400 --> 16:19.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% is pretty much operating in an echo chamber, 16:19.433 --> 16:20.966 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% to me, in my opinion. 16:22.633 --> 16:25.033 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% So I think we need to get outta that chamber. 16:25.133 --> 16:29.433 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% - Yeah, I'm nodding, you can't see me nod but thank you. 16:31.366 --> 16:34.066 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% I wonder if there are examples of companies 16:34.166 --> 16:38.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that you think are doing this work in productive 16:38.566 --> 16:40.733 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and helpful ways that maybe could offer, 16:40.833 --> 16:42.633 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% whether they're in Wisconsin or not. 16:43.633 --> 16:44.966 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% - Marti: No. 16:45.966 --> 16:47.933 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% - All right. [laughing] 16:48.033 --> 16:49.266 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% - Marti: Yeah, I mean, 16:49.366 --> 16:50.933 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and I work with all of these companies 16:51.033 --> 16:53.433 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and many of them are my dear, dear friends, 16:53.533 --> 16:55.233 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and I see all this. 16:55.333 --> 16:59.433 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% But if you can name for me one theater company in Wisconsin 16:59.533 --> 17:04.500 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% that has a person of color in administration, introduction, 17:05.866 --> 17:10.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and in artistic decision-making, then, please, correct me. 17:12.133 --> 17:13.600 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% - Yeah, I can't. 17:14.600 --> 17:15.766 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% Thank you. 17:16.766 --> 17:18.933 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% Lori, I actually wanted to ask you a little bit about 17:19.033 --> 17:22.600 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% like how power differentials play a role in programming, 17:22.700 --> 17:24.400 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% 'cause I think that it has a nice overlap 17:24.500 --> 17:26.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% to your work with media 17:26.200 --> 17:28.433 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% and how we see representation in media. 17:28.533 --> 17:32.000 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And I wonder if you can speak maybe briefly to 17:32.100 --> 17:34.800 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% how implicit bias can function in that? 17:34.900 --> 17:36.333 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Yeah, absolutely. 17:36.433 --> 17:39.033 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% So when we talk about implicit bias, 17:39.133 --> 17:42.700 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% we mean the distinction between explicit bias, 17:42.800 --> 17:45.433 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% so racism where someone actually believes 17:45.533 --> 17:48.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that people of color are inferior to white people 17:48.400 --> 17:50.200 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% or have some sort of racial hatred, 17:50.300 --> 17:52.200 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% that would be explicit bias. 17:52.300 --> 17:54.500 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% But implicit bias is just what we get 17:54.600 --> 17:56.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% from living in this world 17:56.500 --> 17:58.266 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% where we consume the media that we do 17:58.366 --> 18:00.400 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and go through the education system that we have 18:00.500 --> 18:03.133 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and are exposed to kind of theater that we have. 18:03.233 --> 18:07.000 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And all those things do give us racialized ways of thinking, 18:07.100 --> 18:09.400 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and we may believe that we are not racist, 18:09.500 --> 18:14.000 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and we may believe that we are trying to act in a way 18:14.100 --> 18:15.600 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% that promotes racial equality, 18:15.700 --> 18:17.900 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% but we still have these implicit biases, 18:18.000 --> 18:20.800 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and those show up in much more subtle ways. 18:20.900 --> 18:23.266 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% So it impacts decisions like 18:23.366 --> 18:25.866 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% what plays people choose to put on, 18:25.966 --> 18:27.466 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% where if you look at two plays 18:27.566 --> 18:29.066 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and one's written by a person of color 18:29.166 --> 18:30.700 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and one was written by a white person, 18:30.800 --> 18:33.700 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% you might not say, "Oh, well, the one by the person of color 18:33.800 --> 18:36.300 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% "is bad because it's written by a person of color." 18:36.400 --> 18:38.200 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% But I might be like, "Oh, I don't know. 18:38.300 --> 18:39.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% "I don't like it as much, 18:39.833 --> 18:42.200 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% like I feel like it's just not quite there yet." 18:42.300 --> 18:43.966 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% And the same thing can happen for casting 18:44.066 --> 18:46.800 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% when you're comparing people of different backgrounds, 18:46.900 --> 18:48.700 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and it's just like a slight hint of like, 18:48.800 --> 18:50.533 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% "Well, they seem less experienced, 18:50.633 --> 18:53.800 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% "I may give them like a little bit less benefit of the doubt, 18:55.266 --> 18:57.266 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% "and I'm not exactly sure how they'll handle this." 18:57.366 --> 18:59.500 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And then, I also think it goes on the other side 18:59.600 --> 19:05.733 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% to how audiences are viewing productions and art and media 19:05.833 --> 19:07.933 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% where they also have like a little bit, 19:08.033 --> 19:11.200 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% like a slight bit of suspicion or a slight bit of dislike, 19:11.300 --> 19:13.433 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and it's just kind of nudging them 19:13.533 --> 19:15.066 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% a little bit in a negative way. 19:15.166 --> 19:18.900 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And that is an extra obstacle that we have to overcome, 19:19.000 --> 19:20.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and it's even harder to overcome 19:20.700 --> 19:22.100 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% because we're not aware of it, 19:22.200 --> 19:26.333 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and because it's not as obvious and overt, 19:26.433 --> 19:31.433 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% but those little nudges still add up to slow down progress. 19:32.766 --> 19:34.000 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% - Thank you. 19:35.066 --> 19:37.433 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% Loryn, I was curious, what kinds of, 19:37.533 --> 19:38.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% kind of in the same vein, 19:38.933 --> 19:40.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% like what kind of stories you see being told 19:40.800 --> 19:42.866 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% about trans characters, and what kind of stories 19:42.966 --> 19:45.033 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% you'd like to see more of? 19:45.133 --> 19:47.266 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% - I don't see a whole lot of stories 19:47.366 --> 19:49.633 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% about transgender characters. 19:49.733 --> 19:52.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I mean, obviously like  Orange is the New Black, 19:52.200 --> 19:55.633 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% yes, there was a very good storyline 19:55.733 --> 19:57.566 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% about a transgender woman. 19:57.666 --> 20:01.500 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% And honestly, that's often that you see stories 20:01.600 --> 20:05.033 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% about transgender women, not necessarily transgender men. 20:05.133 --> 20:06.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And there was an article, 20:06.966 --> 20:10.700 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and I wish I had like, the citations for that article 20:10.800 --> 20:12.966 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that I read, 'cause I've referenced it several times 20:13.066 --> 20:15.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and just can't remember where I found it. 20:16.466 --> 20:20.833 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% It talked about being raised male, 20:20.933 --> 20:23.600 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% you're given all of those privileges 20:23.700 --> 20:27.433 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% that males have in our society. 20:27.533 --> 20:30.233 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% You're more likely to speak and step forward, 20:30.333 --> 20:32.033 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% whereas if you are raised female, 20:32.133 --> 20:34.066 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% like a transgender male would be, 20:34.166 --> 20:35.566 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% you still kinda hang back. 20:35.666 --> 20:39.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And being raised female, you're taught to be quieter, 20:39.533 --> 20:44.333 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% more reserved, so I wonder if that plays into the fact 20:44.433 --> 20:47.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that you see more stories about transgender women 20:47.100 --> 20:48.866 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% than you do about transgender men. 20:48.966 --> 20:56.233 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And the few I have seen end in their murder, 20:56.333 --> 21:00.066 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% they're sexually assaulted all over TV likeSVU. 21:00.166 --> 21:02.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I loveLaw & Order: SVU, 21:02.800 --> 21:05.733 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% but it is not great for transgender storylines. 21:07.633 --> 21:11.200 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% It kinda plays into somebody was tricked into a date 21:11.300 --> 21:13.066 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% with a man and now they think they're gay 21:13.166 --> 21:14.700 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% so they're gonna kill the person. 21:14.800 --> 21:17.233 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% It's like, that's really not how it works, 21:17.333 --> 21:19.633 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% and the TV show doesn't do a great job 21:19.733 --> 21:21.233 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% of talking about that either. 21:22.433 --> 21:25.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% But storylines I would like to see are just... 21:25.200 --> 21:29.066 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I work in a restaurant, that's where I make my money. 21:29.166 --> 21:31.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% Why isn't there just a transgender character 21:31.200 --> 21:32.333 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% who's a bartender? 21:32.433 --> 21:34.666 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% Or a host? 21:34.766 --> 21:37.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Or the flight attendant? 21:38.600 --> 21:43.100 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% Just normalize being transgender, 'cause it's normal. 21:43.200 --> 21:45.700 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% Yes, I get a shot every week, 21:45.800 --> 21:48.533 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% some days I wear a binder, some days I don't. 21:48.633 --> 21:49.800 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% Let's talk about that, 21:49.900 --> 21:52.133 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% let's just show that in somebody's life. 21:52.233 --> 21:58.900 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And I got an audition casting notice forThe L Wordreboot, 21:59.000 --> 22:02.233 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and it was specifically said they wanted a trans male 22:02.333 --> 22:04.366 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% who was well into their transition. 22:05.733 --> 22:07.800 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I don't know what exactly they wanted by that, 22:07.900 --> 22:11.033 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% but you can't really, I mean, well into your transition? 22:11.133 --> 22:13.300 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% I feel like I am well into my transition. 22:13.400 --> 22:18.400 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% I've identified as a trans male for three, four years, 22:19.800 --> 22:21.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I haven't been medically transitioning for that long, 22:21.966 --> 22:23.833 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% so I feel like that's something that 22:23.933 --> 22:28.366 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% needs to be taken out of things like that, because I am trans, 22:28.466 --> 22:30.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and it doesn't matter how long I've identified this, 22:30.633 --> 22:32.666 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I'm well into my transition. 22:32.766 --> 22:36.033 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And so, again, I think just seeing people 22:36.133 --> 22:39.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% who haven't had top surgery, who maybe even aren't on hormones 22:39.566 --> 22:43.666 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% but they're identifying how they identify. 22:43.766 --> 22:46.600 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% That kinda takes that out of question, 22:46.700 --> 22:50.100 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and really, it gives you a better idea 22:50.200 --> 22:53.000 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% of who the trans community is. 22:53.100 --> 22:55.333 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - It seems to me like you're talking about 22:55.433 --> 22:57.466 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% moving the conversation from like being all about 22:57.566 --> 22:58.966 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% like identity and how you identify, 22:59.066 --> 23:02.033 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% to making it part of character development 23:02.133 --> 23:03.766 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% with other larger stories. 23:03.866 --> 23:04.933 align:left position:42.5% line:71% size:47.5% - Sure. - Yeah. 23:05.033 --> 23:06.166 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% - Put it everywhere, really. 23:06.266 --> 23:10.233 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I mean, I honestly have never had a question. 23:10.333 --> 23:12.566 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% One of the things in the trans community 23:12.666 --> 23:14.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% you don't wanna be asked, there are certain questions. 23:14.733 --> 23:17.166 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I've never been asked those, 23:17.266 --> 23:21.033 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% because I think everybody is so scared to ask questions. 23:22.333 --> 23:24.300 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% Yeah, you may say something that-- 23:24.400 --> 23:26.033 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% the question may be somewhat offensive, 23:26.133 --> 23:28.033 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% but I'm not gonna snap at you about it, 23:28.133 --> 23:30.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I'm gonna be like, "Okay, so, I'm gonna answer this. 23:30.133 --> 23:32.233 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% "But probably phrase it differently next time 23:32.333 --> 23:33.800 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% "if you need to ask somebody else." 23:35.066 --> 23:37.600 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% No, it is not my job to educate, 23:37.700 --> 23:39.733 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% but I'm always happy to educate. 23:39.833 --> 23:42.866 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% I want people to accept other people, 23:42.966 --> 23:47.866 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and if me telling my story of being a trans man, 23:47.966 --> 23:51.333 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% if that helps somebody understand their granddaughter 23:51.433 --> 23:56.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% or grandson or their best friend, that means more to me 23:56.433 --> 24:00.300 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% than keeping certain parts of myself private. 24:00.400 --> 24:04.900 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% So, I'd like to see, yeah, character development 24:05.000 --> 24:07.433 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% with just people being people. 24:07.533 --> 24:09.533 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% - That sounds like some significant emotional labor. 24:09.633 --> 24:12.600 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% So, just wanna say thank you for that. 24:14.066 --> 24:16.533 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% Kathleen, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit 24:16.633 --> 24:18.333 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% about your work with students 24:18.433 --> 24:21.466 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and how you empower particular students 24:21.566 --> 24:23.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% who may be neuroatypical, 24:23.300 --> 24:26.200 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% or be working with other intellectual 24:26.300 --> 24:28.800 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% or other kinds of disabilities? 24:28.900 --> 24:31.133 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% How do you empower them through theater, 24:31.233 --> 24:33.766 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and potentially what our community and regional theaters 24:33.866 --> 24:35.166 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% could learn from that? 24:37.500 --> 24:40.000 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Well, first thing is people are people, 24:40.100 --> 24:42.100 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and they need to be treated as a person, 24:42.200 --> 24:46.433 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% not as their disability or their presentation. 24:49.466 --> 24:52.466 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% Like Loryn was just alluding to, just being people. 24:53.466 --> 24:56.600 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And early on, when I started working at the high school, 24:58.033 --> 25:02.633 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I took on the drama club and I was doing special ed stuff, 25:02.733 --> 25:05.566 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and I did this play called  The Boys Next Door. 25:05.666 --> 25:08.333 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% And it was important to me to do that play 25:08.433 --> 25:11.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% because at the time, the special ed department 25:11.433 --> 25:14.666 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% was kind of like relegated to this little thing. 25:14.766 --> 25:16.666 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% So I thought it was an important story to tell 25:16.766 --> 25:19.533 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% about this group of men who lived in a group home. 25:19.633 --> 25:22.200 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% And when I auditioned the play, 25:22.300 --> 25:25.833 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% I didn't know a lot about who was available. 25:25.933 --> 25:29.166 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And there was one young man who was learning disabled, 25:29.266 --> 25:31.566 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% but that was the only one who auditioned who was like that. 25:31.666 --> 25:36.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So I decided, "Well, this cast needs to know people 25:36.533 --> 25:40.033 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% "who have what they're trying to portray," 25:40.133 --> 25:41.400 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% so I arranged a scrimmage 25:41.500 --> 25:43.566 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% with the Special Olympics basketball team. 25:43.666 --> 25:47.666 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And we developed relationship with the Special Olympians, 25:47.766 --> 25:54.133 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and that, just that, even if we hadn't performed, was huge. 25:54.233 --> 25:56.600 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And it was probably one of the better attended plays 25:56.700 --> 25:59.966 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% that ever happened for the ones that I directed. 26:01.933 --> 26:05.533 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% So it was inclusion of getting to know people 26:05.633 --> 26:08.333 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% that are different than you and seeing that you know what? 26:08.433 --> 26:09.566 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% It's not a caricature, 26:09.666 --> 26:12.133 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% you're not up there acting like, "Oh." 26:12.233 --> 26:16.233 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% You know, something wrong, that's not real, 26:16.333 --> 26:17.966 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and it brings an authenticity to it, 26:18.066 --> 26:19.133 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% so that was early on. 26:19.233 --> 26:21.966 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% And then as time went on, there was... 26:22.066 --> 26:23.566 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% I had students that, 26:24.966 --> 26:28.400 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% whatever they wanted to audition for, whatever part, 26:28.500 --> 26:29.566 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% that was fine. 26:29.666 --> 26:32.933 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% So I had people auditioning for parts, 26:33.033 --> 26:35.566 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% like trans men and trans women. 26:36.666 --> 26:37.900 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% They were, they were-- 26:38.000 --> 26:40.166 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And they were just part of it, they were just people. 26:40.266 --> 26:41.633 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% And then later on, when I started 26:41.733 --> 26:43.466 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% the social skills class at the high school, 26:45.066 --> 26:47.600 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% Peyton was a early student, not in social skills, 26:47.700 --> 26:52.133 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% but he was an early student of mine in speech, 26:52.233 --> 26:54.766 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and he needed social skills training. 26:54.866 --> 26:59.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And he was so special, I decided, "You know what? 26:59.400 --> 27:01.366 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% "You'd be better off in drama club." 27:01.466 --> 27:04.066 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And so, he was dismissed from special ed services 27:04.166 --> 27:06.800 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and put in drama club, and he blossomed. 27:06.900 --> 27:09.233 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% He was given the opportunity, he was treated like a person, 27:09.333 --> 27:11.600 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% he was accepted by the group. 27:11.700 --> 27:12.800 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I always told the kids, 27:12.900 --> 27:14.866 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% "The drama kids are the nice kids in school. 27:14.966 --> 27:16.733 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% "If you're not nice, you don't stay." 27:16.833 --> 27:21.000 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And it was true, the entire time I was there, that was true. 27:21.100 --> 27:23.800 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% And so, you treat people as people, 27:23.900 --> 27:27.833 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% and you don't give them like... 27:27.933 --> 27:31.066 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% It's like, "Oh, I need someone in my cast who's disabled, 27:31.166 --> 27:32.866 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% how can I fit them in?" 27:32.966 --> 27:37.066 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% No, if they have an interest and they are good for the part, 27:37.166 --> 27:38.566 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% hey, why not? 27:38.666 --> 27:40.666 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% And so, that was just the atmosphere. 27:40.766 --> 27:42.133 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - It's interesting that you mentioned that 27:42.233 --> 27:44.866 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% when you first cast Peyton inCurious Incident, 27:44.966 --> 27:47.766 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% you didn't say like, "If I can't find someone 27:47.866 --> 27:50.766 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% "who's neuroatypical to play this character, 27:50.866 --> 27:52.033 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% "I won't do the play." 27:53.366 --> 27:55.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And that makes me think about... 27:56.933 --> 27:58.433 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% To me, there are these kind of separate, 27:58.533 --> 28:02.633 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% almost separate buckets of like how we cast and the stories, 28:02.733 --> 28:05.033 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% and how we perform the stories, 28:05.133 --> 28:07.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% because if we say we can only be writing 28:07.366 --> 28:09.500 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% or performing stories that are true to our own experience, 28:09.600 --> 28:12.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% that limits us in ways that makes me a little sad. 28:13.833 --> 28:17.933 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% But at the same time, there is a huge issue of who gets cast 28:18.033 --> 28:19.433 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and who gets work. 28:19.533 --> 28:22.500 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And as Marti was saying before, who is in power? 28:22.600 --> 28:24.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Who's in administration? 28:24.333 --> 28:25.800 align:left position:40% line:71% size:50% And so,-- - Marti: Amen. 28:25.900 --> 28:27.900 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% [all laughing] 28:28.000 --> 28:32.200 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% - But I wonder, we sort of often talk about this idea of, 28:33.433 --> 28:34.566 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% you'll hear actors say, 28:34.666 --> 28:36.900 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% "I should be able to play anything," right? 28:37.000 --> 28:40.233 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% "Because my job as an actor is to be creative, 28:40.333 --> 28:43.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% "is to imagine myself as someone who I'm not." 28:43.366 --> 28:45.033 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% But if they're aligned for you, 28:46.033 --> 28:48.033 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and I guess that's sort of a question for anybody, 28:48.133 --> 28:50.700 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% but I wonder like Marti, is there a line for you 28:50.800 --> 28:51.900 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% in terms of-- 28:52.000 --> 28:53.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - Marti: Absolutely, there's a line, 28:53.366 --> 28:55.666 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and I'm way more conservative on this issue 28:55.766 --> 28:58.033 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% than people actually calculate. 28:58.133 --> 29:00.733 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% There is a difference between colorblind casting 29:00.833 --> 29:03.200 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and nontraditional casting. 29:03.300 --> 29:07.533 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% You cannot blindly do anything; someone will get hurt. 29:07.633 --> 29:09.066 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% You just can't. 29:09.166 --> 29:11.400 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% And this is a situation where, again, 29:11.500 --> 29:13.466 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% if we're not operating in an echo chamber, 29:13.566 --> 29:15.600 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% then you have somebody that will say, "Wait a minute, 29:15.700 --> 29:17.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% "you can't do that." 29:17.366 --> 29:18.700 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% Instead of convincing yourself 29:18.800 --> 29:22.566 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% that something is appropriate or passable. 29:22.666 --> 29:25.233 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% So, to begin with the definition, 29:25.333 --> 29:26.833 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% colorblind casting is, 29:26.933 --> 29:31.033 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% I think, just wildly going out there and casting whoever 29:31.133 --> 29:33.200 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and however people wanna do things. 29:34.533 --> 29:38.300 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I, for instance, am not interested, and I'm surprised... 29:38.400 --> 29:40.566 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I usually offend somebody in this amount of time, 29:40.666 --> 29:42.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% so good Lord, here we go. 29:42.333 --> 29:45.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% If I'm not interested in seeing a Hispanic father 29:45.633 --> 29:49.166 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% married to an Asian woman with their black child, 29:49.266 --> 29:50.833 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% that is not... 29:50.933 --> 29:52.000 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% [laughing wryly] 29:52.100 --> 29:54.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% Unless it's set up to be that this is a family 29:54.366 --> 29:56.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% that was blended in some creative ways. 29:56.666 --> 29:59.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I have a family that has come together in that way. 29:59.933 --> 30:01.333 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% But if you're trying to tell me 30:01.433 --> 30:03.700 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% that this family is how it started 30:03.800 --> 30:05.533 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and was come together in a traditional way, 30:05.633 --> 30:08.000 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% then I'm immediately out of the story. 30:08.100 --> 30:09.166 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Lindsay: Mm-hmm. 30:09.266 --> 30:11.000 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - Marti: If you wanna take people and put, 30:11.100 --> 30:12.733 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% take a, say, a Tennessee Williams play, 30:12.833 --> 30:15.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% who happens to be one of my favorite playwrights, 30:15.100 --> 30:18.466 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and you wanna cast that with an all African-American cast, 30:18.566 --> 30:21.466 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% for the most part, that is absolutely possible, 30:21.566 --> 30:23.333 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% without changing the language. 30:23.433 --> 30:25.800 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% But then you have to track it all the way through. 30:25.900 --> 30:28.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And that's the difference between colorblind casting 30:28.933 --> 30:30.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and nontraditional casts. 30:31.633 --> 30:36.200 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% If you have someone that is pretending to be another race, 30:36.300 --> 30:40.133 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% fully and totally, it becomes offensive. 30:40.233 --> 30:42.866 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% It becomes offensive to a lot of people. 30:42.966 --> 30:46.900 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% If you have someone that is being an actor, 30:47.000 --> 30:51.366 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% that is doing a mimic or heightened mimicry 30:51.466 --> 30:54.233 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% of another person for the betterment of a play, 30:54.333 --> 30:56.833 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% sayNo Child...,that's a different thing. 30:56.933 --> 30:59.433 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I never at one point in time tried to let anybody think 30:59.533 --> 31:01.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% that I was anything but a black woman, 31:01.666 --> 31:05.100 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% who was voicing for Latinx 31:05.200 --> 31:08.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% or who was voicing for Asian people. 31:08.666 --> 31:10.533 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% When you have somebody that steps into a role 31:10.633 --> 31:13.700 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and pretends to be another race, it's highly offensive. 31:13.800 --> 31:17.033 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% We've had a huge discussion on this recently, 31:17.133 --> 31:21.800 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and I thought it was fascinating that no one... 31:21.900 --> 31:22.966 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% [scoffing] 31:23.066 --> 31:26.300 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% No one wanted to address the fact 31:26.400 --> 31:29.766 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% that A, it was a bad decision to begin with, 31:29.866 --> 31:32.266 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and B, there are particular plays 31:32.366 --> 31:34.133 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% that need to be put on the shelf. 31:34.233 --> 31:37.166 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% There are literally thousands of plays. 31:37.266 --> 31:40.200 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I am not interested in seeingLend Me a Tenor. 31:40.300 --> 31:41.600 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% And there were a lot of people 31:41.700 --> 31:43.200 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% that voiced their opinions on what went on 31:43.300 --> 31:44.800 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% with the particular situation that happened, 31:44.900 --> 31:46.933 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% not only here, but in Missouri. 31:47.033 --> 31:50.433 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But this is one of those when you're even referenced, 31:50.533 --> 31:52.033 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% in regards to the use of the word, 31:52.133 --> 31:54.166 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% particular words that we don't like to hear. 31:54.266 --> 31:56.266 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% Some people just don't get a vote. 31:57.433 --> 32:00.066 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And if you're Caucasian and you're watching a play 32:00.166 --> 32:01.966 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and you're like, "I think it's a good idea, 32:02.066 --> 32:03.166 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% "I think it was fine." 32:03.266 --> 32:04.400 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% Guess what? 32:04.500 --> 32:05.733 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% You're not the one that's offended. 32:06.933 --> 32:10.033 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% You're immediately have a less stake 32:10.133 --> 32:13.000 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% in what's being represented on stage than I do. 32:14.000 --> 32:15.500 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% On this particular... 32:15.600 --> 32:17.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% In this particular area. 32:17.233 --> 32:19.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% So to go back to it, no, 32:19.233 --> 32:24.133 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% colorblind casting is not appropriate. 32:24.233 --> 32:26.700 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% Nontraditional casting, when it works 32:26.800 --> 32:29.566 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and does not change the intent of the playwright, 32:29.666 --> 32:30.900 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% I'm absolutely for. 32:31.000 --> 32:33.666 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% But I'm definitely more conservative on that 32:33.766 --> 32:35.600 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% than people may calculate. 32:35.700 --> 32:38.900 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% - Do you think that colorblind casting is less prevalent now 32:39.000 --> 32:40.100 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% than it used it be? 32:40.200 --> 32:42.433 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% Like, say, in the '90s when it was like 32:42.533 --> 32:45.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% we're all the same under the skin kind of thing? 32:45.133 --> 32:48.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% The multiracial or the yeah, of the '90s. 32:48.666 --> 32:50.600 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% Do you see it happening less? 32:54.966 --> 32:59.300 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% - Marti: I see it happening in a more low-key way. 32:59.400 --> 33:03.100 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% Some that you may have somebody who looks Latinx, 33:03.200 --> 33:05.466 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% but is not, so that it passes. 33:07.300 --> 33:13.466 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Or you may have somebody that is Dominican, 33:13.566 --> 33:16.200 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% but can play a black person. 33:16.300 --> 33:17.666 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Which, we have the same origins, 33:17.766 --> 33:20.233 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% but we don't have the same cultural background. 33:20.333 --> 33:22.666 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% So, in that way, that it happens. 33:22.766 --> 33:25.866 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And it happens for the Caucasian society too. 33:25.966 --> 33:28.033 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% I mean, it's also... [laughing wryly] 33:28.133 --> 33:29.833 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% It gets tricky when you have somebody 33:29.933 --> 33:31.333 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% learning a Russian accent 33:31.433 --> 33:34.666 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and pretending to be Russian when they're not Russian. 33:34.766 --> 33:37.433 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And you don't have somebody at the dramaturgical level 33:37.533 --> 33:38.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% that's helping them out. 33:38.733 --> 33:39.866 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% But we're not talking about that, 33:39.966 --> 33:41.300 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% I'm here to talk about brown skin. 33:41.400 --> 33:42.966 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% [audience laughing] So, let me bring myself back. 33:43.066 --> 33:44.400 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% [all laughing] 33:45.400 --> 33:47.233 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% So, I think it is happening, 33:47.333 --> 33:49.333 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% it's just people are learning the rules. 33:49.433 --> 33:52.866 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% So, you know, they're finding ways around it. 33:52.966 --> 33:54.466 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% Just like the laws could change, 33:54.566 --> 33:56.866 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% that doesn't mean people are changing 33:56.966 --> 33:58.366 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% as quickly as we would like. 34:00.066 --> 34:02.066 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% - Yeah, no, that feels true. 34:02.166 --> 34:03.433 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% Thank you. 34:03.533 --> 34:05.066 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% - Marti: Yep. 34:05.166 --> 34:07.500 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - You're all teachers here on this panel, 34:07.600 --> 34:10.466 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and I wonder if any of you would like to speak 34:10.566 --> 34:13.800 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% to anything you've seen from students 34:13.900 --> 34:17.700 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% that makes you hopeful for a more inclusive theater future? 34:18.933 --> 34:20.266 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% - Marti: Ooh, me! 34:20.366 --> 34:23.333 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% I teach at UWM and at Marquette, 34:23.433 --> 34:25.066 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and I think it's a fascinating thing, 34:25.166 --> 34:27.700 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% but it's also simultaneously frustrating for me, 34:27.800 --> 34:29.633 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% which is what they're trying to do 34:29.733 --> 34:31.400 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% with gender identification. 34:32.466 --> 34:35.533 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% And the language that's being developed. 34:35.633 --> 34:37.333 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% And also it's gonna spill over 34:37.433 --> 34:41.100 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% into how we deal with people of different races. 34:41.200 --> 34:43.200 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% Which is they're trying to remove it. 34:43.300 --> 34:46.100 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% I know for a fact that we won't see that in this lifetime, 34:46.200 --> 34:48.266 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% it'll take several generations to happen, 34:48.366 --> 34:51.433 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% but they're not only trying to, and I see them doing it. 34:51.533 --> 34:55.800 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% They're not only trying to say that it should be a wash, 34:55.900 --> 35:00.233 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% but they're also trying to say that it shouldn't matter. 35:01.966 --> 35:05.500 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% And I love, I love the tide of this. 35:05.600 --> 35:09.633 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% So that I can still, at some point, maybe 152, 35:09.733 --> 35:12.500 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% 158 years down the line, walk in and someone go, 35:12.600 --> 35:14.033 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% "Oh, that's a black woman," 35:14.133 --> 35:15.233 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% but it doesn't mean anything 35:15.333 --> 35:17.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% other than that's a black woman. 35:17.633 --> 35:20.300 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% And they are moving and taking great strides, 35:20.400 --> 35:23.900 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% the younger generation, on changing the wiring 35:24.000 --> 35:26.533 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% of how we look and categorize ourselves. 35:27.966 --> 35:29.866 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Cool, thank you. 35:29.966 --> 35:31.133 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% - Marti: Yep. 35:31.233 --> 35:32.300 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% [laughing] 35:32.400 --> 35:33.700 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - Lindsay: Any other thoughts on that? 35:33.800 --> 35:35.033 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% Things you've seen from students? 35:35.133 --> 35:36.566 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% People that you've taught? 35:37.566 --> 35:39.066 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% - I was thinking about this in relation 35:39.166 --> 35:40.733 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% to the conversation you were just having 35:40.833 --> 35:42.066 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% about can anyone play any role? 35:42.166 --> 35:44.133 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Because this is the kind of conversation I do have 35:44.233 --> 35:45.900 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% with my students all the time. 35:46.000 --> 35:49.966 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And you know, we may have had our multicultural moment 35:50.066 --> 35:52.833 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% in the '90s, but then we also have post-racism 35:52.933 --> 35:55.366 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and post-racial discourse to deal with now, 35:55.466 --> 35:57.533 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% which is like the post-Obama idea 35:57.633 --> 35:59.066 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that like we've conquered racism 35:59.166 --> 36:01.000 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and race doesn't matter anymore. 36:01.100 --> 36:03.066 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% Which I think is also kind of dying away, 36:03.166 --> 36:04.866 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% because we realize now more than ever 36:04.966 --> 36:06.833 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% that racism is alive and well. 36:07.833 --> 36:09.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But you know, my students are always really excited 36:09.633 --> 36:10.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% to talk about these ideas 36:10.800 --> 36:12.433 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and to think through the differences 36:12.533 --> 36:14.933 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% between colorblindness and then doing something 36:15.033 --> 36:17.766 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% that's actually actively anti-racist. 36:17.866 --> 36:19.633 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And how if we do nothing 36:19.733 --> 36:21.933 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and we pretend like race doesn't matter, 36:22.033 --> 36:24.333 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% then we allow the status quo to continue, 36:24.433 --> 36:27.800 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and that is a practice of upholding racism. 36:27.900 --> 36:29.400 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% So, I have students who are really interested 36:29.500 --> 36:31.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% in thinking about, and I was also thinking about 36:31.300 --> 36:32.800 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% what you were saying about looking at shows 36:32.900 --> 36:35.333 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% likeThe L Word, which I'm in a class right now 36:35.433 --> 36:37.133 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and we're gonna watch  The L Wordlater. 36:37.233 --> 36:39.500 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% - Loryn: I'm so sorry. [all laughing] 36:39.600 --> 36:41.100 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% - They talk about representations in it, 36:41.200 --> 36:43.766 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and my whole goal with my classes 36:43.866 --> 36:46.300 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% is to give students these sharper vocabularies 36:46.400 --> 36:49.766 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% for describing and analyzing what's going on. 36:49.866 --> 36:52.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% So, they might watch these shows on their own 36:52.366 --> 36:53.700 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and feel uncomfortable 36:53.800 --> 36:56.533 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and feel like this is mildly offensive in some way. 36:56.633 --> 36:58.133 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% But I wanna give them the actual tools 36:58.233 --> 37:00.333 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% for saying what's happening. 37:00.433 --> 37:02.900 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% And that way when they leave my class, 37:03.000 --> 37:05.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% they can be more specific in describing what they see, 37:06.033 --> 37:07.566 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% but also bring that into their communities 37:07.666 --> 37:09.700 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and talk to their friends and their family members. 37:09.800 --> 37:12.333 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% They're often very excited to talk to their family 37:12.433 --> 37:16.033 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% about what they've been watching and how they feel about it. 37:16.133 --> 37:18.966 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And describing the history that got us to where we were, 37:19.066 --> 37:21.966 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% and then why these images were made in the way that they are, 37:22.066 --> 37:24.800 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and why change is so difficult in media industries 37:24.900 --> 37:26.866 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% because of these power differentials. 37:26.966 --> 37:28.533 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% And so, I just get really excited 37:28.633 --> 37:30.533 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% when I get to talk to my students about this, 37:30.633 --> 37:32.933 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% and I see them developing that vocabulary 37:33.033 --> 37:35.133 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% and then bringing it with them into the world. 37:35.233 --> 37:36.300 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Lindsay: Mm-hmm. 37:36.400 --> 37:38.100 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% - When we did  Curious Incident, 37:39.333 --> 37:40.866 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% we brought in Peyton's mom, 37:40.966 --> 37:44.800 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% we brought in a respite worker for someone with autism, 37:44.900 --> 37:47.066 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% we brought in my son and his wife 37:47.166 --> 37:49.333 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% to talk about their experiences as parents 37:49.433 --> 37:50.766 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% of kids with autism. 37:50.866 --> 37:54.366 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% And we learned about differences 37:54.466 --> 37:57.200 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and how certain things might be an issue, 37:57.300 --> 37:58.866 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% or maybe not be an issue. 37:58.966 --> 38:00.700 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% And then we asked Peyton directly, 38:00.800 --> 38:02.900 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% "So, what kinds of things do you need 38:03.000 --> 38:06.533 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% "to make us have you participate in this well?" 38:06.633 --> 38:08.500 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And he's very open with it. 38:08.600 --> 38:13.033 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% Everyone that was a speaker in that information piece 38:13.133 --> 38:15.666 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% was wonderful and very open. 38:15.766 --> 38:20.533 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% And it really enhanced the ability of the characters to... 38:21.766 --> 38:23.866 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% How would the neighbor react in this situation? 38:23.966 --> 38:26.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% How would the mom and dad feel in this situation? 38:26.333 --> 38:31.000 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And just the education on what people are really like, 38:31.100 --> 38:32.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% instead of just guessing. 38:32.633 --> 38:34.600 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% I think that is acceptance, 38:34.700 --> 38:36.300 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% that helps acceptance so much. 38:36.400 --> 38:39.566 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% I think if we educate kids even younger, you know? 38:39.666 --> 38:42.000 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% Especially about people with differences, 38:43.000 --> 38:45.500 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% that it will help with accepting 38:45.600 --> 38:47.766 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and making everyone feel like they're part of the human race, 38:47.866 --> 38:49.433 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% 'cause they are. - Yeah. 38:49.533 --> 38:50.966 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% The thing with guessing 38:51.066 --> 38:54.900 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% is that it's more risky and less risky at the same time. 38:55.000 --> 38:57.666 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Because if you just guess as to what somebody is like, 38:57.766 --> 38:59.066 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% you don't have to risk asking them 38:59.166 --> 39:01.733 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% and getting it wrong, you know? 39:01.833 --> 39:04.733 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% But if you guess and you get it wrong, it's worse! 39:04.833 --> 39:05.900 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% [laughing] 39:06.000 --> 39:07.300 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% But there's a vulnerability 39:07.400 --> 39:10.533 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and a willingness to be awkward with each other, 39:10.633 --> 39:13.900 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% which I think maybe technology smooths over a bit, 39:14.000 --> 39:17.400 align:left position:35% line:71% size:55% and I'm very pro-awkwardness and... 39:17.500 --> 39:18.566 align:left position:37.5% line:71% size:52.5% [laughing] I just... 39:18.666 --> 39:20.100 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% And I think, I don't know... 39:20.200 --> 39:24.633 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I think that theater can kind of help us with these stories 39:24.733 --> 39:26.900 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% to facilitate these kinds of conversations. 39:27.000 --> 39:28.733 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% That feels very productive to me. 39:29.733 --> 39:31.233 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% But, Loryn, what about you? 39:31.333 --> 39:33.600 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% - So, I worked with little littles, the three-year-olds. 39:33.700 --> 39:36.766 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% Those were my groups. 39:36.866 --> 39:39.533 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% I had a sports class with these kids, 39:39.633 --> 39:41.800 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and I think this is a good example 39:41.900 --> 39:45.833 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% of just really seeing kids being kids 39:45.933 --> 39:48.066 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and little people, really. 39:49.233 --> 39:51.933 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% I had three boys, all very different, 39:52.033 --> 39:55.900 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and two were on the spectrum, 39:56.000 --> 39:58.433 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% I think one was officially diagnosed, 39:58.533 --> 40:01.266 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% the other was not and it was, you know... 40:01.366 --> 40:04.333 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% I mean, they're three, four, you know? 40:04.433 --> 40:06.566 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% All of 'em don't wanna sit still, 40:06.666 --> 40:11.566 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% and being able to work within what they needed 40:11.666 --> 40:14.766 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and still teach them what I was supposed to be teaching 40:14.866 --> 40:17.866 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% with, you know, how to hold a hockey stick. 40:17.966 --> 40:20.366 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% Which I'm gonna be honest, I had to look that up too. 40:20.466 --> 40:22.200 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% [all laughing] 40:22.300 --> 40:23.933 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% But we couldn't listen to music. 40:24.033 --> 40:25.300 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% That was part of the thing. 40:25.400 --> 40:27.500 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% We were supposed to listen to music for every single thing, 40:27.600 --> 40:28.900 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% and so, I would ask each one, 40:29.000 --> 40:30.733 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% "How are you feeling today about music?" 40:30.833 --> 40:32.266 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% If somebody said they could do it, 40:32.366 --> 40:35.066 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% but we needed to keep it low, then we turned on the music, 40:35.166 --> 40:36.933 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% we all were quiet and we would, you know, 40:37.033 --> 40:40.666 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% adjust the music level to make sure that everybody was okay 40:40.766 --> 40:42.600 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% and nobody needed to cover their ears. 40:42.700 --> 40:44.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% And as soon as you needed to cover your ears, 40:44.700 --> 40:46.200 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% we turned the music off. 40:48.300 --> 40:49.733 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% And it just... 40:49.833 --> 40:52.833 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Nobody was mad at anybody 40:52.933 --> 40:54.666 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% for not being able to listen to the music. 40:54.766 --> 40:58.533 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% Or somebody really wanted to, so we had a discussion. 40:58.633 --> 41:01.900 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% "Today this song is really important that we listen to it, 41:02.000 --> 41:03.633 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% "can we just, for this one song? 41:03.733 --> 41:05.666 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% "And then we don't have to listen to any more?" 41:05.766 --> 41:09.466 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% Of course, that was what we agreed to and it worked out. 41:10.566 --> 41:12.333 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% I had one of the parents actually say, 41:13.333 --> 41:15.233 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% "Nobody has actually gotten him 41:15.333 --> 41:18.033 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% "to do all of the things that you've been able to do." 41:19.800 --> 41:24.700 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I think what it comes down to is listening and adjusting... 41:24.800 --> 41:28.666 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% I was the one with the most capability and... 41:31.333 --> 41:32.533 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% I mean, I was the oldest, 41:32.633 --> 41:34.000 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% I was the maturest, you know, whatever, 41:34.100 --> 41:36.433 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% all of those things and I was... 41:36.533 --> 41:38.066 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% I had to step back, you know? 41:38.166 --> 41:39.733 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% It wasn't about what I needed. 41:39.833 --> 41:41.600 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% Like, did I wanna listen to that song today? 41:41.700 --> 41:44.366 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% Maybe I did, but it wasn't what I needed. 41:44.466 --> 41:46.266 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% It mattered, you know, or, what, 41:46.366 --> 41:48.100 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% it's what, you know, he needed. 41:48.200 --> 41:51.200 align:left position:12.5% line:71% size:77.5% And I think that's a big thing, 41:51.300 --> 41:54.766 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% is being able to take a step back, 41:54.866 --> 41:57.066 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% meet the person who has the most needs, 41:57.166 --> 42:02.133 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% and maybe he needs the most representation or what have you, 42:02.233 --> 42:03.866 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% and let that shine. 42:03.966 --> 42:06.133 align:left position:17.5% line:71% size:72.5% Because it's not about you. 42:06.233 --> 42:08.500 align:left position:15% line:71% size:75% It's about the other person. 42:10.133 --> 42:11.433 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Lindsay: Thanks. 42:11.533 --> 42:13.700 align:left position:22.5% line:71% size:67.5% All right, any closing thoughts from y'all? 42:15.366 --> 42:16.666 align:left position:30% line:71% size:60% - Lori: Thank you for being here. 42:16.766 --> 42:17.900 align:left position:32.5% line:71% size:57.5% [all laughing] 42:18.000 --> 42:19.100 align:left position:27.5% line:71% size:62.5% - Kathleen: Thanks for inviting us. 42:19.200 --> 42:20.533 align:left position:25% line:71% size:65% - Thank you everybody for your patience, 42:20.633 --> 42:22.233 align:left position:20% line:71% size:70% for your thoughtfulness, and your attention, 42:22.333 --> 42:24.533 align:left position:10% line:71% size:80% and enjoy the rest of Idea Fest. 42:24.633 --> 42:27.633 align:left position:25% line:5% size:65% [audience applauding]