THE CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.
THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST: WOMEN AND MINORITY VOTERS RULE THE ROAD TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
WE TALK WITH DONALD TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER AND FORMER TO THE CONTRARY PANELIST KELLYANNE CONWAY ON THEIR CLOSING STRATEGY TO WOO WOMEN.
THEN, GOING FLAT; WOMEN OPT OUT OF BREAST RECONSTRUCTION AFTER CANCER SURGERY.
[♪♪] HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.
WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.
UP FIRST, WILL THIS BE ANOTHER YEAR OF THE WOMAN IN AMERICAN POLITICS?
DONALD TRUMP ENJOYED A SHORT SURGE, BUT HILLARY CLINTON STILL LED IN MOST BATTLEGROUND STATES AT WEEK'S END.
POLLS SHOWED TRUMP AND CLINTON ESSENTIALLY TIED IN CRITICAL SWING STATES SUCH AS NEVADA AND FLORIDA.
BUT TO WIN, TRUMP HAS TO BREACH CLINTON'S SO-CALLED "FIREWALL."
THE GOOD NEWS FOR DEMOCRATS IS CLINTON LEADS THE MAJORITY OF THE POLLS IN THE "FIREWALL STATES."
BUT TRUMP WAS CLOSE BEHIND IN VIRGINIA, PENNSYLVANIA, AND MICHIGAN.
TOP SURROGATES FOR THE CANDIDATES ARE FANNING OUT, RALLYING SUPPORTERS.
MELANIA TRUMP IS OUT STUMPING TO TRY TO WIN WOMEN'S VOTES FOR HER HUSBAND.
ON THE OTHER SIDE, PRESIDENT OBAMA, BERNIE SANDERS AND CHELSEA ARE RAISING MOMENTUM AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON.
CLINTON IS WINNING WITH WHITE COLLEGE EDUCATED WOMEN WHO TYPICALLY VOTE REPUBLICAN.
I ASKED TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER KELLYANNE CONWAY, WHO IS PART OF THAT GROUP, HER STRATEGY FOR GETTING THEM TO VOTE FOR TRUMP: SHE'S NOT WINNING ALL CATEGORIES OF WOMEN, BUT LOOK SHE'S THE FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT.
THE QUESTION REALLY IS WHY ISN'T SHE AT 65 PERCENT AMONG WOMEN, WHY AREN'T THERE WOMEN IN WASHINGTON D.C. AND NEW YORK CITY THAT ARE MARCHING, YOU KNOW, CLOSING DOWN THE STREETS SAYING 'WE NEED THE FIRST WOMEN PRESIDENT.'
THERE'S NONE OF THAT.
REACHING WOMEN WHO COMPRISE A MAJORITY OF THE VOTERS, BONNIE, IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TASK FOR ME AS THE CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR DONALD TRUMP.
I WOULD ARGUE THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE ARE GOING TO DO TACTICALLY AND SUBSTANTIVELY.
SUBSTANTIVELY, MR. TRUMP WILL CONTINUE TO TAKE HIS MESSAGE ABOUT PEACE AND PROSPERITY AND SECURITY TO THE AMERICAN WOMAN, FEMALE VOTER.
WE KNOW THAT WOMEN ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT SECURITY, AFFORDABILITY, FAIRNESS AND ETHICS.
I CALL IT THE SAFE ACRONYM.
I HOPE THAT THEY ARE LISTENING TO THE FULL MESSAGE, AND NOT JUST THE SLOP THAT MAKES UP THE TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN NEGATIVE ADVERTISING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.
KELLYANNE CONWAY IS THE FIRST WOMAN TO RUN A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
I ASKED HER HOW SHE FEELS ABOUT THAT.
I FEEL LIKE IT'S A BLESSING AND IT CARRIES A CERTAIN SPECIAL KIND OF RESPONSIBILITY, BONNIE, IN THAT I AM HERE TO SUPPORT MY CLIENT, MY CANDIDATE'S CANDIDACY, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT HE IS SAYING IS BEING HEARD THROUGH THE NOISE OR THE SILENCE, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
AND ALSO, I WOULD LOVE FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW THE FULL MEASURE OF THE MAN.
I'D LOVE FOR THEM TO SEE SOMEBODY WHO IS AN AMAZING HUSBAND, AND FATHER.
WHO BUILDS THINGS, WHO FIXES THINGS, WHO SOLVES PROBLEMS.
AND WHEN I-- I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I AM VERY-- I AM SOMEBODY WHO IS RAISED BY A SINGLE MOM, WE WERE MIDDLE CLASS, MAYBE.
SOME DAYS I'M NOT SURE.
AND I WAS RAISED TO BE VERY INDEPENDENT AND VERY ENTREPRENEURIAL, AND FRANKLY, JUST TO THINK ABOUT FAMILY AND I ASKED ABOUT INTERVIEWS GIVEN AND SHE SAID THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS SEEN CLIPS OF HIM INSEXUALLYING ROSIE O'CONNELL, CALLING CLINTON CROOKED AND GETTING INTO TWITTER FIGHTS USING INSULTS.
I ASKED HOW SHE FACES HER CHILDREN.
>> IT'S EASY FOR ME, I CANNOT LOOK MY CHILDREN IN THE EYE MY THREE DAUGHTERS AND TELL THEM IT WAS OK THAT I WOULD VOTE FOR A WOMAN JUST BECAUSE OF HER GENDER.
SHE SHARES MY GENDER BUT NOT VALUES OR VISION OR MY WAY OF OPERATING.
>> THE NEGATIVITY OF THE CAMPAIGN HAS GOTTEN PERSONAL FOR HER.
>> I HAVE FOUR SMALL CHILDREN AT HOME I DO NOT APPRECIATE THE DEATH THREATS AND THE AWFUL THINGS SAID ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
IT WORKS BOTH WAYS, TRUST YOU ME.
>> CONGRESSWOMAN YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE STUMP FOR HILLARY IS SHE GOING TO ENERGIZE PEOPLE OF COLOR AND COLLEGE EDUCATED WHITE WOMEN TWO GROUPS SHE NEEDS TO WIN?
>> ABSOLUTELY AND IT'S HAPPENING AND THE PHONE BANK AND CANVASING AND KNOCKING ON DOORS AND PULLINGGGGOTERS OUT TO VOTE.
>> DO NOT COUNT YOUR CHICKENS BEFORE THEY HATCH HE WILL DO BETTER WITH WOMEN AND MINORITIES.
IT'S CALLED JOBS AND IT'S CALLED ETHICS.
>> I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, AN ENTHUSIASTIC VOTE OR A DUTIFUL VOTE DOES NOT MATTER IT'S STILL ONE VOTE.
DO I BELIEVE THAT HILLARY CLINTON WILL BE ABLE TO PULL OUT THE VOTERS?
>> YES.
>> THE ASSUMPTION THAT SUPPORTERS.
>> IF SHE WINS WHITE COLLEGE EDUCATED WOMEN IT WILL BE THE FIRST TIME SINCE 1980 THAT THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE HAS NOT CARRIED THAT DEMOGRAPHIC AND IT'S THE RICHEST DEMOGRAPHIC OF WOMEN AND, OF COURSE, THE MOST EDUCATED.
WHY AREN'T THEY GOING FOR TRUMP?
THEY HAVE -- POLL AFTER POLL SHOWS SHE IS WINNING WOMEN BY DOUBLE-DIGITS.
>> PART OF IT IS SOME ARE SWAYED BY ELECTING THE FIRST WOMAN.
BUT WE'LL SEE HOW MANY COME HOME BECAUSE A LOT ARE STARTING TO COME HOME TO THE PARTY.
MARRIED WOMEN TRUMP WILL CARRY THAT DEMOGRAPHIC WHICH IS RELIABLE FOR REPUBLICANS.
>> I MEAN, I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, MITT ROMNEY WON WHITE WOMEN BY 56% OF THE WOMEN'S VOTE AND RIGHT NOW DONALD TRUMP IN THE POLLS IS DOING ONLY 47%.
AMONG WHITE WOMEN.
THOSE WOMEN ESPECIALLY THE COLLEGE EDUCATED AFFLUENT ONES IN THE SUBURBS ARE REALLY THE SWING VOTER AND THIS IS WHERE -- >> BECAUSE ME IS A WOMAN?
>> NO IT'S NOT.
TIME AFTER TIME OUR STUDIES SHOW THAT WOMEN VOTE PARTY OVER GENDER.
>> BUT THESE ARE REPUBLICAN WOMEN.
>> RIGHT.
AND WHAT YOU SEE ARE REPUBLICAN WOMEN WHO DOWN BALLOT ARE GOING TO VOTE REPUBLICAN AND GOING TO SUPPORT OTHER REPUBLICANS.
BUT I THINK DONALD TRUMP HAS A BRIDGE TOO FAR.
>> I'VE HEARD SO MANY REPORTS OF WOMEN WHEN THEY HEARD THAT TAPE WITH BILLY BUSH THEY HAD IT.
AND AS MUCH AS THE CAMPAIGN DISMISSES THIS AND DISMISSES THAT AND OH, I DIDN'T SAY THAT OR WALKING BACK FROM THIS, THAT WAS THE DEAL CLINCHER.
>> I THINK THE TAPE HAD A HUGE IMPACT IN TERMS OF PEOPLE'S PERCEPTIONS OF DONALD TRUMP AND VALIDATING THE CONCERNS THEY HAD ABOUT HIM BUT WHAT IS MORE INTERESTING IS OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS THERE'S FRIENDS OF MINE ON THIS WOMEN FOR TRUMP BUS TOUR GOING ALL OVER THE SOUTH AND TALKING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP AS A CANDIDATE.
AND WHAT TRANSCENDED THAT DIALOGUE ABOUT PARTY HAS BEEN POLICY OVER PERSONALITY.
THE WOMEN ARE NOT APOLOGISTS FOR DONALD TRUMP BUT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT.
AND SAYING MAYBE I DID NOT LOVE WHAT HE SAID ON THE TAPE BUT I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE COURT.
AND THE OTHER THING THEY ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT IS OBAMACARE AND THAT THE IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHETHER YOU ARE A WOMAN OR MINORITY AND LOOKING AT YOUR PREMIUMS YOU ARE LIKE, I'M SEEING FROM A POLICY STANDPOINT I WILL VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP MAYBE I'M NOT EXCITED.
BUT I'M LOOKING AT IT THROUGH THE LENS THIS IS THE LAST CHANCE TO REPEAL OBAMACARE AND PEOPLE MAY BE GRAVITATING TOWARDS A CANDIDATE.
>> THE REAL REASON THAT WHITE WOMEN COLLEGE EDUCATED WOMEN ARE NOT EXCITED ABOUT DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE OF THE WORDS COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH.
THAT DEMONSTRATE A COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR WOMEN FROM THE -- >> OR CONSERVATIVE WHITE COLLEGE EDUCATED WOMEN.
>> FROM THE FAT-SHAMING OF MISS UNIVERSE TO THE DISPARAGES COMMENTS ON THE VIDEOTAPE THAT WE HEARD THOSE ARE WORDS COMING OUT OF DONALD TRUMP'S MOUTH ALMOST EVERY TIME HE TAKES TO A MICROPHONE.
AND I THINK THAT COLLEGE EDUCATED WHITE WOMEN ARE LOOKING AT THAT AND HIS TEMPERAMENT AND LOOKING AT HIS EXPERTISE ON POLICY AND THEY ARE NOT BUYING IT.
AND THAT IS WHY YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE NUMBERS FOR MITT ROMNEY AND THE NUMBERS FOR HILLARY CLINTON.
AND I THINK THOSE WILL HOLD ON ELECTION DAY.
>> TIME MAGAZINE'S COVER STORY, THE BATTLE OF THE SEXES TALKS ABOUT ALL THE GENDER BIAS THAT HAS BEEN ALL THE THINGS -- CALLING HER CROOKED HILLARY.
WHICH IS NOT EXACTLY PRESIDENTIAL.
WE'VE NEVER SEEN THIS LANGUAGE FROM A REPUBLICAN BEFORE.
IS THIS THE BATTLE OF THE SEXES?
IS IT GOING TO END UP BEING A FIGHT BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN?
>> THE WOMEN I KNOW DO NOT SEE HILLARY AS BEING THE FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT.
THEY SEE HER AS BEING A COMBATIVE UNETHICAL CANDIDATE WHO IS FEMALE.
THEY SEE THIS AS A BATTLE BETWEEN STATUS QUO AND CHANGE AND THAT IS WHAT BRINGS PEOPLE OVER.
THEY WANT CHANGE AND SHE WILL NOT BE A CHANGE AGENT.
SHE WILL BE THE SAME OLD POLITICS.
>> AND LET ME SAY THIS IS WHERE IT'S FASCINATING BECAUSE THE GENDER SCRIPT HAS GOTTEN FLIPPED IN THIS ELECTION.
I KEEP JOKING THAT THIS IS REALLY A CONVERSATION OF CROOKED VERSUS CRAZY AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN THE HISTORY THAT CRAZY HAS BEEN IN FACT IDENTIFIED AND ASSOCIATED WITH A MAN AND CROOKED WHICH IS TYPICAL A TYPICAL MALE POLITICIAN HAS BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH A WOMAN.
SO WE -- >> WE ARE TURNING THIS AROUND.
>> AND THAT IS A BRILLIANT OBSERVATION BUT HOW SHOULD WOMEN USE THIS AFTER THE ELECTION TO START SAME KIND OF THING?
>> NO.
HERE IS THE THING.
>> WOMEN POST GRADS BE TALKING ABOUT WE'RE DONE WITH SEXUAL ASSAULT AND SEXUAL REMARKS.
>> NO MORE THAN THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT WE'RE DONE WITH RACE RELATIONS BECAUSE BARACK OBAMA IS THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN PRESIDENT.
AND I THINK WHAT I'VE SEEN ESPECIALLY EARLY VOTE LOCATIONS, WOMEN ARE IDENTIFYING WITH HILLARY CLINTON AS A WOMAN.
THEY MAY NOT SAY IT IN THE POLLS AND MAY NOT BE THE THING THAT DEFINES THEIR VOTE BUT THEY ARE AWARE OF THAT GOING TO VOTE.
>> YEAH, I THINK I WOULD -- >> IS IT THE BATTLE OF THE SEXES?
IF YOU READ THAT TIME PIECE THEY LIST THINGS THAT NOT ONLY TRUMP HAS SAID BUT SUPPORTERS AND YOU KNOW HORRIBLE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID ABOUT HILLARY.
LANGUAGE USED THAT DOES NOT USUALLY SHOW UP AMONG PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES OR THEIR SURROGATES.
>> I THINK THIS COUNTRY HAS A LOT OF HEALING TO DO AFTER THE ELECTION.
I THINK YOU WILL HAVE TO SEE THAT HEALING NOT ONLY IN CONGRESS BUT PEOPLE REACTING TO THE ENVIRONMENT AND THEY ARE FRUSTRATED AND ANGRY AND THEY WANT CHANGE THEY WANT CONGRESS TO WORK FOR THEM AND JOBS AND BETTER WAGES.
AND WE DON'T HAVE CANDIDATES TALKING ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER HE GRABBED SOMETHING OR SHE HAS BAD E-MAILS IF WE CAN GET TO THE NEXT PLACE MAYBE WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
>> AND LET ME ADD THIS ONE OTHER THING.
WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE AS A COUNTRY.
I GET FRUSTRATED WITH THE IDEA THAT THINGS ARE UNPRECEDENTED IF YOU LOOK AT THE ELECTION BETWEEN CLEVELAND AND LANE IT WAS A PERSONAL ELECTION THAT WAS INCREDIBLY UGLY.
JAMES BLAINE WAS CALLED THE CONTINENT ALLIER FROM THE STATE OF MAINE.
AND GLOVER CLEVELAND HAD AN ILLEGITIMATE CHILD OUT OF WEDLOCK AND INSTITUTIONALIZED THE WOMAN WHO WAS THE MOTHER.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS STUNNING ABOUT THAT ELECTION WHEN HISTORIANS REMARK, IS THAT HAD WOMEN BEEN VOTING IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT GROVER CLEVELAND MIGHT NOT HAVE WON.
>> DID THE NEWS ORGANIZATIONS COVER IT IN 1884?
>> I WILL TELL YOU THIS.
THE PARTY ORGANS THAT WERE THE NEWSPAPERS INCLUDING "THE NEW YORK TIMES" BACK THEN VERY MUCH A PARTY ORGAN PUBLISHED THREE NEWSPAPERS A DAY.
THEY HAD A MORNING, AFTERNOON AND EVENING EDITION ALL WERE READ BIPARTISANS AND PARTISANS WERE RALLIED TO 90% VOTE TURNOUT NOT NEAR LIKE WHAT WE GET TODAY.
>> ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT TRUMP TRUMP'S LATE USE INJECTION OF MELANIA INTO THE CAMPAIGN.
SHE SPOKE LATE IN THE WEEK AND SAID HER ISSUE WOULD BE ON-LINE BULLYING.
AND I HAVE TO QUOTE RICK BALDWIN COMING OUT OF THE CLIP SAYING THAT, DOES SHE KNOW HER HUSBAND?
>> YOU KNOW THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I SAID BEFORE AND I WILL SAY AGAIN.
THIS IS WHY HE CAN BE LIKE NIXON GOING TO CHINA.
HE CAN GO WITH CREDIBILITY TO THE GROUPS WITHIN OUR SOCIETY THAT DO THE ON-LINE BULLYING THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE SEXUAL ASSAULT.
AND HE CAN SPEAK AND SHE CAN SPEAK FROM A POSITION UNLIKE WHAT ANY DEMOCRAT COULD WITH CREDIBILITY TO SAY THIS HAS TO STOP.
I RECOGNIZE THINGS I HAVE DONE ARE NOT GREAT IN THE PAST.
>> I RESPECT YOU.
I RESPECT YOU.
YOU ARE A LONGTIME REPUBLICAN SUPPORTER OF WOMEN'S ISSUES AND I VALUE THAT IMMENSELY.
BUT WHEN SHE SAYS SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHEN YOU SAY NOW HE IS GOING TO TURN AROUND WHEN HE GOES INTO THE WHITE HOUSE AND BECOME A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT HUMAN BEING DO YOU THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE?
>> I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE.
IT'S NOT JUST MELANIA, BUT IVANKA, I KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE IN MIND FOR HER POST ELECTION.
SHE IS GOING TO BE THE ADVOCATE FOR WOMEN.
AND WORK WITH MELANIA BUT SHE IS GOING TO BE THE LEADER ON IT PUSHING FOR WOMEN ON ALL SORTS OF LEVELS.
NOT ONLY AGAINST SEXUAL ASSAULT BUT EQUAL PAY, ALL KINDS OF OTHER THINGS.
SHE ALREADY HAS HELPED HIM CRAFT THE CHILDCARE CREDITS FOR WORKING MOTHERS.
SHE FEELS VERY, VERY STRONGLY AND WANTS TO BE ENGAGED TO BE A CHANGE AGENT FOR WOMEN WITHIN HIS ADMINISTRATION AND MELANIA WILL WORK WITH HER ON THAT.
>> IVANKA AND MELANIA WILL NOT BE PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS TWITTER ACCOUNT WILL BE PRESIDENT AND ALL OF US ARE GIVEN PAUSE WITH MEDICAL MELANIA.
SHE HAS NOT BEEN PUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND PUT HER ON CYBER BULLYING WHEN HER HUSBAND IS CYBER BULLY IN CHIEF FAT-SHAMING MISS UNIVERSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT IT'S RIDICULOUS.
AND I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY [INAUDIBLE] THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY CONTROL ANY SELF CONTROL AND IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT MELANIA IS THERE OR IVANKA IS THERE.
DONALD TRUMP IS THE CANDIDATE.
AND HE IS DEMONSTRATED OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE THE TEMPERAMENT.
>> I WANT EACH OF YOU TO TELL ME IS MELANIA GOING TO GET WOMEN TO THE POLLS?
CAN WOMEN RELATE TO HER?
SHE IS NOT LIKE A NORMAL WOMAN.
THIS MODEL AND SHE'S POSED AND DOES THE IDEA OF HAVING A FIRST LADY WHO POSED NUDE FOR A GIRLIE MAGAZINE IN EUROPE IS THAT APPEALING TO WOMEN?
>> WHAT OTHER SURROGATES DOES DONALD TRUMP HAVE AS MUCH AS HIS WIFE IS HE HAS TO USE SOMEBODY AND SHE IS OUT THERE.
>> AND FRANCE SURVIVED HAVING THE FIRST LADY HAVING THOSE SORT OF THINGS SO HEY.
>> I WILL STICK UP FOR MELANIA.
I THINK SHE IS ABSOLUTELY DOING WHAT SHE NEEDS TO DO WHICH IS BE AT HER HUSBAND'S SIDE AS SOMEBODY WHO COULD BE FIRST LADY.
THIS IS THE JOB OF A SPOUSE.
>> WILL SHE CAN SHE RELATE, CAN SOMEBODY WATCHING THE CABLE NETWORKS FROM THEIR TRAILER RELATE TO HER WITH ALL HER GLAMOUR AND EMPHASIS ON BEAUTY AND OVER SEXUALIZATION?
>> OUR ENTIRE CELEBRITY CULTURE IS THE REASON WHY WE HAVE DONALD TRUMP TO BEGIN WITH.
SO IF AMERICANS WERE NOT RELATING TO A SENSE OF CELEBRITY, AND GLAMOUR AND MAYBE A DIFFERENT LIFESTYLE MAYBE THE LIFESTYLES OF THE RICH AND FAMOUS WE PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE THIS CANDIDACY.
LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.
BEHIND THE HEADLINES: GOING FLAT.
IT'S A TERM COINED BY WOMEN WHO'VE NOT JUST SURVIVED BUT TRIUMPHED OVER BREAST CANCER AND DECIDED NOT TO HAVE BREAST RECONSTRUCTION SURGERY.
THE WEBSITE, THE BREAST AND THE SEA, IS THE BRAINCHILD OF ONE WOMAN WHO HAD BREAST CANCER; AND A PHOTOGRAPHER, USING BOTH WOMEN'S TALENTS TO EMPOWER BREAST CANCER SURVIVORS >> REBECCA PINE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH BREAST CANCER WHEN SHE WAS JUST 33.
AND HAD ONE BREAST REMOVED AND RECONSTRUCTED.
FOUR YEARS LATER SHE HAD A PRO FOR LAT PARTICULAR MASS PROTECT TOW ME AND HAD THE RECONSTRUCTED BREAST REMOVED.
>> I FEEL HAPPIER ACTUALLY HAVING NOTHING THAN HAVING THE I AM PLANT THERE.
FOR ME, THIS IS JUST WHO I AM.
AND IT'S BEING NATURAL.
I LOVED HAVING MY BREASTS.
THEY WERE A PART OF MY LIFE FOREVER.
AND I REALLY YOU KNOW IT WAS A BIG LOSS FOR ME TO HAVE TO SAY GOOD-BYE TO THEM.
BUT FOR ME, I WOULD RATHER HAVE NOTHING THAN HAVE SOMETHING THAT WASN'T PART OF MY NATURAL SKIN.
>> MS. PINE SPENT TIME AT THE OCEAN A SPIRITUAL AND HEALING PLACE FOR HER.
SHE FELT THE NEED TO CONNECT WITH AND SUPPORT OTHER WOMEN WHO HAD HAD UNRECONSTRUCTED LUMPECTOMIES AND MASS PROTECT THOMES TO REENFORCE THE IDEA THAT RECONSTRUCTION IS NOT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION.
>> IT'S HEALING TO BE CONNECTING WITH OTHER SURVIVORS AND TO BE EMBRACING OURSELVES AS WE ARE.
TO BE JUST COMING INTO ACCEPTANCE THAT THERE ARE MANY BLESSINGS THROUGH AN EXPERIENCE SUCH AS BREAST CANCER THAT ACTUALLY MAKE US STRONGER AND YOU KNOW SO IT IS A WONDERFUL THING TO BE ABLE TO TRANSFORM A DIFFICULTY AND TAKE POSITIVE FROM THAT.
>> CONNECTIONS WITH OTHER WOMEN TURNED INTO PHOTO SHOOTS WITH PHOTOGRAPHER AND COLLABORATEOR JUNE AND A TRAVELING EXHIBITION, A WEBSITE AND THEY HOPE A BOOK.
MS. PINE OFFERS WORKSHOPS BY THE SEA FOR WOMEN WHO BARE THEIR SCARS TO HELP THEMSELVES HEAL.
>> I THINK IT'S VERY, VERY POWERFUL TO EMBRACE OURSELVES AS WE ARE AND TO FIND OUR BEAUTY AND BE ABLE TO TRANSFORM OUR PAIN INTO SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY QUITE DIFFERENT.
>> BUT AS MANY WOMEN WILL SAY IT'S STILL A MAN'S WORLD WHERE COMMERCIAL EXPLOITATION AND PROMOTION OF A CERTAIN TYPE OF FEMALE BEAUTY CAN BE DEVASTATING TO WOMEN WHO DO NOT FIT INTO THE MOLD.
>> WE REALLY SHOULD NOT BE DEFINED BY WHETHER WE HAVE TWO BREASTS OR ONE BREAST OR NO BREASTS.
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT IS SO MUCH EMPHASIZING HOW WOMEN LOOK AND HOW THERE'S SO MANY SHOULDN'T.
>> MS. PINE FELT THAT PRESSURE NOT JUST ON HERSELF BUT HER DAUGHTER AS WELL.
>> I HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO IS FIVE YEARS OLD AND EVERYWHERE WE GO FROM ALL AROUND THE WORLD THAT PEOPLE WE MEET SAY OH, SHE IS SO PRETTY.
YOU KNOW.
AND I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING TO HER AFTERWARD MORE IMPORTANTLY YOU ARE KIND.
AND SHE REALLY GETS THE MESSAGE THAT BEAUTY IS [INAUDIBLE] >> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS MOVEMENT?
>> I THINK THAT IT AGAIN EXPANDS WOMEN'S CHOICES AND IT IS A CHOICE THAT MANY WOMEN ARE CHOOSING.
I HAVE A FEMALE MEMBER OF MY FAMILY WHO CHOSE TO GO FLAT AND HAD CANCER AT AN EARLY AGE.
FOR MYSELF I WAS LUCKY AND I HAVE BEEN CANCER FREE FOR YEARS BUT I HAD A MALE ONCOLOGIST FIRST THAT I DISCHARGED BECAUSE HE KEPT PUSHING ME TO DO FULL CHEMO AND I KEPT QUESTIONING I HAD STAGE ONE THAT WAS NECESSARY AND GOT A FEMALE ONCOLOGIST WHO AGREED WITH WHAT I WANTED TO DO.
WHY DO THEY PUSH THE OTHER STEF?
AND HE SAID IT'S -- >> MONEY.
>> BREAST CANCER.ORG A WEBSITE HAD A REFERENCE TO A STUDY SAYING THAT 56% OF WOMEN CHOOSE RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY AND 44% DON'T.
I WAS SURPRISED BY THE 44%.
I DID NOT THINK IT WAS THAT HIGH.
I THINK THERE WAS MORE PRESSURE TO REBUILD.
>> WELL, I MEAN I AGREE.
I THINK THIS IS JUST A SIGN THAT WOMEN HAVE MORE CHOICE TO REALLY BE WHAT IS -- BE AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THEM.
I DO THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF SOCIEITAL PRESSURE TO FIT INTO THE PERFECTIONIST MOLD BUT I ALSO THINK THAT MANY WOMEN NOW KNOW WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IS REALLY WHO THEY ARE NOT WHAT THEY APPEAR TO BE.
>> THEY MAY KNOW THAT BUT HOW LONG BEFORE SOCIETY AGREES WITH THEM?
I THINK WE ARE FAR AWAY FROM YOU KNOW, ALL OF SOCIETY BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT THOSE BEAUTIFUL PHOTOGRAPHS AND NOT THINK SOMETHING TO THEMSELVES THAT THEY FIND SOME ASPECT OF IT, I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT UNAPPEALING.
YOU KNOW.
AND I SAY THAT AS SOMEONE WHO IF I GET BREAST CANCER I AM SO GOING FLAT.
JUST GET RID OF THEM.
I DON'T WANT A RECURRENCE.
I WOULD DO WHAT SHE IS DOING.
>> I THOUGHT THE STORY WAS POWERFUL AND THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE STORY.
A LOT IS ABOUT AWARENESS.
I DID NOT KNOW THAT 44% EITHER BUT IT MADE KNEE THINK I HAD A FRIEND THAT GOT A DOUBLE MASTECTOMY AND SHE HESITATED TO TELL ME.
AGAIN WE ARE NOT IN THE PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT AND EXPLAIN HER DECISION.
>> A DOUBLE MASTECTOMY?
>> THAT IS CORRECT.
AND WHEN I HEARD THE STORY, WOW WHY DIDN'T I KNOW THIS I COULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT FRIEND TO HER BUT THE SENSE OF THE COSMETIC COMMENT WITH RESPECT TO CHOICES THAT WOMEN HAVE AND WE DO NOT EXPECT EVERY WOMEN TO WEAR A WIG BECAUSE WE DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT SHE IS BALDING BUT FOR A REASON THIS IS MORE IMPORTANT AND WE HAVE THIS CONCERN WHETHER MEN OR WOMEN BEING CONCERNED YOU NEED TO HAVE BREASTS.
SO THERE IS A LONG WAY TO GO.
I AGREE.
BUT THIS IS A POWERFUL THING TO BE TALKING ABOUT AND I'M GLAD IT'S OUT THERE IN THE BOOK AND THE BLOG.
>> AND IT IS -- >> HAIR HOPING FOR A BOOK OWE HE THEY ARE HOPING FOR A BOOK THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A PUBLISHER.
>> AND EMBRACE THE CHOICES THAT WOMEN MAKE WITHOUT MAKING A JUDGMENT ABOUT IT.
AND I THINK WHAT HAS BEEN STARTLING TO ME IS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN'S FACES IN THE STORIES.
BECAUSE WHEN BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN GET CANCER IT'S DIAGNOSED LATER.
THE PROGNOSIS IS WORSE.
AND THERE IS MORELY SAFER AT THAT TIME.
SO OWE THERE IS MORE MORTALITY.
AND MAKE SURE THE WOMEN OF COLOR CAN EMBRACE THEIR CHOICES AS WELL.
>> IS OBAMACARE GETTING WOMEN OF COLOR MORE ACCESS TO BREAST CANCER CARE?
>> MORE -- ONE IS BOTH SORT OF WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE BREAST CANCERS THEY ARE TRIPLE NEGATIVE BREAST CANCERS FOR BLACK WOMEN IN PARTICULAR THAT ARE MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE AND DIFFICULT FOR BLACK WOMEN.
BUT YOU KNOW GETTING MAMMOGRAMS EARLIER AND ALSO DESTIGMATIZING.
MAMMOGRAMS AND THE TREATMENT FOR CANCER AND WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.
>> BIG THINGS IS RESEARCH.
AND BE YOUR OWN ADVOCATE AND LOOK INTO IT.
AND DO NOT LET ANYONE PUSH YOU INTO ANYTHING.
>> BE YOUR OWN RALPH NADER.
>> THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.
AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
[♪♪] FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.
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