>> Bonnie Erbe: THIS WEEK ON "TO THE CONTRARY", THE BIG SPENDING BILL BEFORE CONGRESS AND ITS IMPACT ON WOMEN, CHILDREN, AND FAMILIES.
THEN MOST WOMEN ARE DISSATISFIED WITH HOW THEY ARE TREATED BY SOCIETY.
AND GUESS WHAT?
MEN DON'T SEE A PROBLEM.
[MUSIC] .
AND GUESS WHAT?
MEN DON'T SEE A PROBLEM.
[MUSIC] >> Bonnie Erbe: HELLO.
I AM BONNIE ERBE.
WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY", A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.
UP FIRST, CRAFTING A COMPROMISE: WE KNOW AS SOON AS WE SAY THE WORD RECONCILIATION OR MENTION BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS, EYES GLAZE OVER.
BUT THIS IS IMPORTANT AND WILL HAVE A REAL EFFECT ON THE LIVES OF AMERICANS, ESPECIALLY WOMEN, CHILDREN, FAMILIES, AND WOMEN OF COLOR.
PRESIDENT BIDEN IS HARD SELLING HIS PROGRAM TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AS HE CONTINUES TO NEGOTIATE WITH ALL WINGS OF HIS PARTY.
BUT THERE IS AN UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT WILL BE LEFT OF BIDENS BUILD BACK BETTER BILL WHEN IT IS TRIMMED FROM 3.5 TRILLION DOLLARS OVER 10 YEARS TO MORE LIKE 2 TRILLION.
FREE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, ELDERCARE, AND THE RENEWABLE ENERGY PROGRAM SEEM LIKE THEY WON'T BE APPROVED.
THE STRENGTHENED CHILD TAX CREDIT COULD BE EXTENDED FOR ONE YEAR INSTEAD OF FIVE.
OTHER PROGRAMS THAT COULD BE SCALED-BACK INCLUDE EXPANDED PAID LEAVE, CHILDCARE, AND UNIVERSAL PREKINDERGARTEN.
JOINING ME TODAY ARE FORMER U.S.
REPRESENTATIVES DONNA EDWARDS AND NAN HAYWORTH, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST HILARY ROSEN, AND WASHINGTON EXAMINER, TERRY WRITER TIANA LOWE.
WHEN THIS BILL ENDS UP BEING CRAFTED, WILL IT RESEMBLE ANYTHING LIKE THE HUGE INVESTMENT IN PEOPLE, WOMEN OF COLOR, CHILDREN, ETC., THAT THE PRESIDENT REALLY WANTED TO MAKE?
>> Donna Edwards: WELL, I STILL THINK THAT EVEN A BILL AT $2 TRILLION IS GOING TO HAVE THE COMPONENTS AND IT THAT REALLY INVEST IN THE SOCIAL CONSTRUCT OF PEOPLE'S LIVES.
YOU KNOW, THERE IS STILL COMMITMENT AROUND CHILDCARE.
$500 BILLION IS STILL GOING TO BE PUT INTO CLIMATE CHANGE, WHICH INCLUDES RESILIENCY FOR COMMUNITIES IN DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES.
SO I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A SUBSTANTIAL, BOLD INVESTMENT, LIKE WE HAVE NOT SEEN IN GENERATIONS IN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND IT'S GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE'S LIVES.
AND I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TENDENCY TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS LEFT OUT.
YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN $2 TRILLION AND $200,000.
AND THIS INVESTMENT IS ABOUT INVESTMENT PEOPLE AND THEIR COMMUNITIES.
>> Bonnie Erbe: NAN HAYWORTH, YOUR THOUGHTS AND WELCOME TO THE PANEL.
>> Nan Hayworth: THANK YOU, BONNIE.
AND I ALWAYS APPRECIATE DONNA'S THOUGHTFUL APPROACH AND SERVANT HEART, TRULY.
THE IDEA OF INVESTING IN AMERICANS AND OF LIFTING EVERYONE UP IS OF COURSE AN OLD -- THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING.
MY CONTENTS TREND HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT IT'S A MATTER OF CONSIDERING THE BEST MEANS, THE MOST EFFECTIVE MEANS OF ACHIEVING THOSE SALUTARY AND NOBLE GOALS.
AND I CONTEND STRONGLY THAT GOVERNMENT IS NOT -- IT SHOULD NOT BE AND IS NOT A GOOD INVESTOR.
THAT'S REALLY NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S ROLE.
THE GOVERNMENT'S ROLE IS TO PROVIDE US PRIMARILY WITH PROTECTION OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS, PUBLIC SAFETY -- AND PUBLIC SAFETY NEEDS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, THE STATE LEVEL, AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL IN TERMS OF CONFRONTING A POTENTIALLY HOSTILE WORLD.
THAT'S WHERE GOVERNMENTS EFFORT SHOULD BE FOCUSED.
NOTHING IN THE PROPOSED BILL IS FREE, BY THE WAY.
EVERYTHING IS PAID FOR BY US, THE CITIZENS.
AND IN FACT, WHEN GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERS THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS, THEY TEND TO COST MORE, BE LESS EFFICIENT, LESS EFFECTIVE, AND LESS RESPONSIVE.
SO I AM ROOTING FOR GREAT THINGS TO HAPPEN, BUT I'M ROOTING FOR THIS BILL NOT TO GO THROUGH.
>> Bonnie Erbe: WELL, HILARY, NANCY PELOSI SAID IN HER THURSDAY BRIEFING THAT IT'S ALL PAID FOR.
WHAT DOES SHE MEAN VERSUS BEING FREE?
>> Hilary Rosen: WELL, WHAT SHE MEAS IS THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE WORKING HARD TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS AND THE LARGEST CORPORATIONS WHO GOT THE LARGE TAX CUTS DURING THE TRUMP ERA GET BALANCED OUT A LITTLE BIT AND END UP PAYING A LITTLE BIT MORE SO THAT THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE REALLY BEEN HURTING OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS IN THIS ECONOMY GET A CHANCE TO HAVE A LIKE UP.
AND SO, THAT MEANS THINGS LIKE CHILD CARE, SUPPORT, THAT MEANS THINGS LIKE A PAGE FAMILY LEAVE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, HISTORICALLY BLACK UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES.
SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INVESTMENTS THAT GOVERNMENT IS MAKING.
AND I'M ALWAYS AMUSED WHEN SMART MEMBERS OF CONGRESS LIKE CONGRESSWOMAN HAWORTH SAYS WE SHOULD NOT BE INVESTING.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DO IN A THOUSAND AREAS THAT DON'T ACTUALLY HELP INDIVIDUAL AMERICANS AND AWAY.
WE ARE INVESTING IN COMPANIES ALL THE TIME IN THE DEFENSE SPACE, FOR INSTANCE.
WHAT REPUBLICANS WANT TO DO WITH SOCIAL PROGRAMS, THOUGH, FREQUENTLY IS GIFT TAX CREDITS AND TAX CUTS.
BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE INCOME ORIGINALLY TO GET BENEFIT FROM FROM A TAX CUT OR A TAX CREDIT, THEN YOU'RE NOT REALLY BEING HELPED.
AND SO, THESE ARE NOT DOLLARS THAT ARE GOING OUT TO, YOU KNOW, LARGE BUSINESSES, THESE ARE REALLY SUBSIDIES THAT ARE ALLOWING PEOPLE TO BUY THE GOODS AND SERVICES THAT BUSINESS, BUSINESSES IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR ARE PROVIDING.
>> Bonnie Erbe: OKAY.
TIANA, YOUR THOUGHTS?
EFFECT PREDICTABLY, I THINK IT'S A DISASTER.
I'M ALL IN FAVOR OF INVESTING.
YOU KNOW, BUT YOU HAVE TO POSITIVE RETURN ON THAT INVESTMENT.
YOU KNOW, A VERY POPULAR LEFT-WING INVESTMENT THAT WE HAVE IS TITLE 10, WHICH PROVIDES CONTRACEPTION AND REPRODUCTIVE SERVICES TOWARDS LOW INCOME WOMEN.
THAT PROBABLY HAS, YOU KNOW, FOR EVERY DOLLAR SPENT, YOU GET BACK SEVEN CENTS ON A RETURN.
YOU KNOW, THAT IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY.BUILD BACK BETTER, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WE WOULD HAVE $22 TRILLION NATIONAL DEBT.
WE ARE ALREADY HAVE THE HIGHEST DEBT TO GDP RATIO SINCE WORLD WAR II.
RIGHT NOW AS IS IN A DECADE, WE WOULD HAVE HUNDRED 6 PERCENT DEBT TO GDP RATIO.
>> Bonnie Erbe: EXPLAIN TO ME WHY REPUBLICANS WERE NOT UPSET WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP INCREASED THE DEBT BY BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
>> Tiana Lowe: OKAY.
[CROSS TALK] >> Tiana Lowe: SOME REPUBLICANS LIKE THIS ONE RIGHT HERE WERE VERY UPSET.
AND I WAS ONE OF THOSE STICKING POINTS.
DEAR MEMBER WHEN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SKINNY REPEAL OF OBAMA CARE, THEY COULD NOT HACK IT TO RECONCILIATION IN A WAY THAT WAS EITHER POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT TO GET THOSE HOLDOVERS, TO GET THE MAKING VOTE, BUT ALSO IN A WAY THAT WOULD NOT CREATE ANOTHER DOUGHNUT IN OUR DEBT.
SO IT WITH THE TAX CUTS, THE NUMBER ONE ARGUMENT, AND PEOPLE ADMIT -- I ADMITTED THAT IT WAS NOT TRUE -- IS THE IDEA THAT THEY'LL PAY FOR THEMSELVES BY CREATING MORE GROWTH.
IN SOME RESPECTS, SOME PARTS OF IT PAY FOR THEMSELVES, BUT PRODUCING THE CORPORATE TAX RATE SEGUI WERE NOW AT THE OECD AVERAGE INSTEAD OF 10 POINTS ABOVE THE OECD AVERAGE, THAT DECAYING BACK AMERICAN JOBS [CROSS TALK] >> Bonnie Erbe: THESE ARE THINGS THAT NORMAL AMERICANS CAN UNDERSTAND.
DONNA, WHAT ABOUT THE LIBERAL WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?
HEY DON'T SEEM TO BE HAPPY WITH ANYTHING THAT THE -- THAT NANCY PELOSI OR JOE BIDEN, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT SO MUCH MORE, AND MANY WOULD SAY SO UNREALISTICALLY, BUT LAST WEEK ON THE SHOW WE HAD ONE OF OUR PANELISTS SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE -- WELL, ASKED ABOUT WHY THERE WAS SUCH A DISENGAGEMENT THIS ELECTION AS COMPARED WITH TWO YEARS AGO, AND SHE SAID, WELL, WE GAVE OUR VOTES ALREADY AND WE'VE GOT NOTHING FOR IT.
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE HEARING FROM LEFT-WING DEMOCRATS?
>> Donna Edwards: NO, IT'S NOT, IN FACT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF YOU LISTEN TO PRAMILA JAYA PAUL FOR WASHINGTON, WHO IS THE CHAIR OF THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS, SHE HAS BEEN KNEE DEEP IN NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AND ALSO WITH THE MODERATES FROM THE SENATE, AND I THINK THAT PROGRESSIVES ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE VERY HAPPY WITH THIS PACKAGE.
IS IT EVERYTHING THAT EVERYONE WANTED?
OF COURSE NOT, BUT, YOU KNOW -- >> Bonnie Erbe: DID HE START, IT DID THE PRESIDENT START AT THREE AND A HALF TRILLION BECAUSE HE ALWAYS KNEW HE WANTED TO GO TO $2 TRILLION?
>> Donna Edwards: NOW.
I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE TOO CYNICAL A READ.
I THINK THE PRESIDENT OUTLINED A PLAN THAT HE BELIEVED IN AND THAT HE THOUGHT COULD MOVE THROUGH THE CONGRESS.
IT TURNS OUT THAT THROUGH NEGOTIATION, THAT'S NOT TRUE.
BUT WHEN YOU COME TO A $2 TRILLION PLAN, AND I HATE TALKING ABOUT THE NUMBERS BECAUSE I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS IN IT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
THE CHILD TAX CREDIT IS GOING TO STAY.T WILL BE RENEWABLE AFTER WHEN YEAR.
BUT IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KEEPING MILLIONS OF CHILDREN IN POVERTY OR OUT OF POVERTY.
THINGS LIKE INVESTMENTS, AS I SAID, IN RESILIENCY AND COMMUNITIES TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE, WE SEE THE DEVASTATION THAT HAPPENS IN COMMUNITIES WITH FLOODS AND FIRES AND ALL THESE EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS, AND COMMUNITIES NEED TO BUILD THAT RESILIENCY, BECAUSE THE GREATEST IMPACT OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS ACTUALLY ON COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND ON POOR COMMUNITIES.
>> Bonnie Erbe: ALL RIGHT.
LET ME JUMP OVER TO HILARY.
THE DEMOCRATS ARE OBVIOUSLY AT THIS POINT, IT'S ALMOST LIKE JOE MANCHIN DEBATING WITH EVERY OTHER DEMOCRAT IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE TO GET WHAT HE WANTS.
HE IS FROM WEST VIRGINIA, CALL STATE.
HE'S VERY PRO-COAL AND VERY PRO-FOSSIL FUELS, AND YET HIS STATE 'S NUMBER ONE IN THE COUNTRY FOR SUFFERING FROM REPEAT AND LARGE FLOODS THAT SOMETIMES WIPE OUT SMALL MOUNTAIN TOWNS.
WHAT -- WHERE IS HE GOING WITH THIS?
>> Hilary Rosen: WELL, IS HUGE FRUSTRATION I THINK WITH ENERGY ADVOCATES WITH JOE MANCHIN BECAUSE OF THE, YOU KNOW, CONSISTENT DESIRE TO KEEP COAL AS SUCH A SIGNIFICANT PART OF OUR ENERGY RESOURCES.
AND, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S NOT COME TO CHANGE IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.
I MEAN, THEY ARE SLOWLY GETTING AT THIS, AS DONNA SAID.
THERE ARE OTHER CLIMATE PROVISIONS IN THIS BILL TO MOVE PEOPLE ON RENEWABLES, TO MOVE PEOPLE TO SOLAR, TO OTHER THINGS.
AND THAT IS A, YOU KNOW, IT IS A SLOW CHANGE.
THIS IS, YOU KNOW, A VERY LARGE SHIP TURNING AROUND IN A VERY SMALL CREEK WHEN WE TRY AND SHIFT OUR ENERGY SOURCES IN THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE, FRANKLY, AMERICANS DON'T REALLY WANT TO BE INCONVENIENCED VERY MUCH.
AND SO, PEOPLE PLAY ON THAT POLITICALLY BY TRYING TO KEEP THE STATUS QUO, AND THE COAL INDUSTRY, THROUGH SENATOR MANCHIN, HAS BEEN REALLY EFFECTIVE AT THAT.
>> Bonnie Erbe: TIANA, ARE YOU READING ON SENATOR MANCHIN IN HIS OPPOSITION TO CLEAN ENERGY?
>> Tiana Lowe: I VERY MUCH BELIEVE THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS IN IMMINENT THREAT, WHICH IS WHY I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT FOR THE GREEN SPENDING, IT'S VERY LIMITED.
NUCLEAR POWER.OU KNOW, BIDEN WOULD HAVE A VERY BIPARTISAN BILL THAT HE PROBABLY WOULD NOT EVEN HAVE TO PASS RECONCILIATION JUST FOCUSING ON FUNDING NUCLEAR POWER.
WE ARE SEEING IT IN CALIFORNIA NEW YORK, THESE DEEPLY STATES HAVE SHUT DOWN THEIR NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS AND NOW HAVE INCREASED CARBON EMISSIONS AS RESULT.
>> Hilary Rosen: I WILL NOTE WITH SECRETARY OF ENERGY JENNIFER GRANHOLM, VERY PRO-NUCLEAR, REALLY INVESTED IN LOOKING AT NUCLEAR AS AN ALTERNATIVE SOURCE.
>> Tiana Lowe: YEAH -- [CROSS TALK] >> Bonnie Erbe: IN GAS, WHICH IS MINED BY FRACKING.
>> Nan Hayworth: YEAH.
THE STATE OF NEW YORK, AS WE KNOW, HAS AT THE STATE LEVEL BANNED RECOVERY OF THAT RESOURCE, WHICH IS THE LOWEST CARBON FOSSIL FUEL.
ALTHOUGH AGREE ENTIRELY WITH HILLARY'S POINT -- SORRY, TIJUANA'S POINT, FORGIVE ME, THAT HOUR OF CARBON FOOTPRINT ROSE WHEN WE CLOSED INDIAN POINT NUCLEAR POWER PLANT, WHICH WAS, I FELT, A VERY -- THAT WAS A BIG BACKWARD STEP AND NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.
I'M GLAD SECRETARY GRANHOLM IS ENDORSING NUCLEAR POWER.
THAT IS THE WAY FORWARD FOR THE WORLD, THE NEXT GENERATION OF NUCLEAR IN SO MANY WAYS.
WITNESSED WHEN I WAS IN THE HOUSE, AND I'M SURE DONNA HAS HER OWN STORIES OF THIS, BUT I CERTAINLY WITNESSED HOW THOSE WHO SEEK FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR PROJECTS CAN BE SEEKING THAT SUPPORT, BECAUSE ACTUALLY THOSE PROJECTS DON'T MAKE SENSE IN THE REAL WORLD OF MARKETS.
AND THE PROBLEM WITH FEDERAL SO-CALLED INVESTMENT, WHICH AGAIN I FUNDAMENTALLY OPPOSE, FEDERAL INVESTMENT IN BUSINESSES THAT OTHERWISE SHOULD BE PRIVATE IS THAT WHEN IT'S OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, WHEN IT'S TAXPAYERS' MONEY, THERE IS FAR LESS IMPETUS TO STEWARD THAT MONEY CAREFULLY.
PRIVATE INVESTMENT, INVESTMENT FOR MONEY WHICH WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROFIT OR LOSS TENDS TO BE FAR MORE SENSIBLY APPORTIONED.
AND A LOT OF IT, WHEN IT'S FROM THE GOVERNMENT LEVEL, IT'S NOT AS WISELY MANAGED AS IT IS IN MARKETS AND -- >> Donna Edwards: THE FACT IS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT MAKES INVESTMENT IN ELECTRIFICATION, THAT'S FOR THE WHOLE LEVEL OF INVESTMENT FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
WHEN THE GOVERNMENT MAKES AN INVESTMENT IN RURAL BROADBAND, THAT'S FOR THE WHOLE LEVEL OF INVESTMENT FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
AND SO, IS IT ISN'T AS THOUGH THE GOVERNMENT IS EVERYTHING, BUT IT DOES, YOU KNOW, SORT OF JUMPSTART SOME OF THESE INDUSTRIES.
I THINK THAT THAT IS IMPORTANT FOR JOB CREATION IN THE LONG RUN FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
>> Nan Hayworth: IN A BYGONE ERA, IT WAS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN IT IS NOW.
>> Bonnie Erbe: WE ARE OUT OF TIME.
>>> FROM DIVERGENT VIEWS ON CAPITOL HILL TO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HOW MEN AND WOMEN SEE GENDER EQUALITY: MOST WOMEN ARE NOT HAPPY WITH HOW WOMEN ARE BEING TREATED IN AMERICA.
BUT MOST MEN DO NOT THINK IT'S A PROBLEM.
THAT, ACCORDING TO A NEW GALLUP POLL.
IN FACT, WOMEN'S SATISFACTION IS NOW AT A RECORD LOW.
TWO THIRDS OF MEN THINK THAT WOMEN AND MEN HAVE EQUAL JOB OPPORTUNITIES, YET ONLY ONE THIRD OF WOMEN AGREE.
ONE THING MEN AND WOMEN AGREE ON IS THAT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PROGRAMS FOR WOMEN SHOULD BE USED MORE WIDELY.
JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, MOST WOMEN REPORTED BEING SATISFIED WITH HOW SOCIETY TREATED THEM.
BUT NOW LESS THAN HALF WOULD SAY THE SAME THING, THAT DROP COINCIDES WITH THE EMERGENCE OF THE #METOO MOVEMENT.
SO DO YOU THINK THE #METOO MOVEMENT SHOULD WOMEN THAT, YOU KNOW, ALL THE STUFF WAS GOING ON THAT THEY DID NOT THINK WAS GOING ON ANYMORE AND MADE THEM DISSATISFIED WITH THEIR JOBS?
>> Hilary Rosen: WELL, I DON'T THINK IT STARTED WITH THE #METOO MOVEMENT.
BUT LOOK, THE TRUTH IS SUCCESSFUL WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE TODAY IN MY VIEW IS LITERALLY LIKE A MIRACLE.
IS A TESTAMENT TO OUR FORTITUDE, OUR RESILIENCE, BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE DAY WOMEN ARE WORKING IN A SYSTEM THAT WAS LITERALLY CREATED, ORIGINALLY TO KEEP US OUT AND TO KEEP US IN THE HOME.
SO, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT CHILDCARE WAS NOT BUILT INTO THE WORKPLACE, THAT THERE IS UNEQUAL PAY, THAT THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, LACK OF SENIOR EXECUTIVES OR BOARD POWER, BEING SUBJECTED TO THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT, I MEAN, ALL THOSE THINGS, WOMEN HAVE OVERCOME TO GET AS FAR AS WE HAVE TODAY.
AND SO, I THINK IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU TAKE THAT RESILIENCE AND MOVE FORWARD, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT JUST DEMONSTRATING BIAS, LIKE THE STUDY IS SHOWING, HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH TO CREATE REAL CHANGE.
IT TAKES MORE THAN THAT.
>> Nan Hayworth: YOU KNOW, WE STAND ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS.
MY MOTHER WAS A SECRETARY IN THE TIME, THE ERA WHEN SECRETARIES WERE OFTEN MORE TALENTED THAN THEIR BOSSES.
AND SHE WAS A FOUR YEAR WORLD WAR II VETERAN.
AND WHEN HER BOSSES AFTER THE WAR WERE NOT SUFFICIENTLY RESPECTFUL, SHE TOLD THEM TO TAKE A HIKE AND SHE GOT A BETTER JOB .
FOR MYSELF, THANKS TO THE MANY ADVANCES THAT ADVOCATES FOR WOMEN, AMONG WOMEN AND AMONG MEN WHO BECAME ADVOCATES AND ALLIES, THANKS TO THAT I HAVE NEVER FELT DISADVANTAGED IN MY PROFESSIONAL CAREER IN ANY CAPACITY AS A WOMAN.
I HAVE COLLABORATED WITH MEN, COMPETED AGAINST MEN, AND I HAVE BEEN VERY BLESSED TO FEEL NO IMPEDIMENTS.
IN FACT, TO FEEL EVEN ADVANTAGE TO BE A WOMAN IN CERTAIN RESPECTS.
WHAT DOES CONCERN ME QUITE A BIT IS THAT WE MAY ACTUALLY BE LOSING THE SIGHT OF THE FACT THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF, AND I'M A MOTHER OF TWO, TWO BOYS, THAT, YOU KNOW, I RAISED TWO BOYS THAT REALLY, YOU KNOW, BOYS ARE ALSO FACING A LOT OF CHALLENGES IN THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT, AND THERE WAS JUST A RECENT VERY INTERESTING PIECE OF DATA THAT WOMEN ARE GRADUATING WITH ADVANCED DEGREES AT BASICALLY ABOUT ONE AND A HALF TIMES THE RATE THAT MEN ARE.
SO I THINK THERE'S A MUCH RICHER OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO CONSIDER HOW WE BALANCE THE ROLE OF REGULATION AND MARKETS AGAIN WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES OF GENDER.
>> Bonnie Erbe: OKAY.
BUT LET'S -- THIS INCREASING DISSATISFACTION, NOW, THE GALLUP POLL, THE GALLUP PEOPLE LAY IT ON AT LEAST PARTIALLY TO THE #METOO MOVEMENT, AND I PRESUME THAT MEANS AS WOMEN SAW WHAT WAS STILL BEING DONE TO WOMEN IN HOLLYWOOD.
THEY STARTED TO LOOK AROUND AND THINK, WELL, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, I'M BEING SEXUALLY HARASSED.
I WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AS A NETWORK CORRESPONDENT WAY EARLIER, DIFFERENT NETWORK, WAY EARLIER IN MY CAREER.
AND IT WAS SO LONG AGO THAT I DID NOT EVEN THINK OF IT AS -- I JUST THOUGHT MY BOSS WAS A REAL PAIN IN NEEDED TO, YOU KNOW, KEEP IT TO HIMSELF.
BUT SO, THERE IS THAT.
BUT THIS ALSO COINCIDED WITH THE TIME OF THE TRUMP, THE ONE TRUMP TERM AS PRESIDENT.
TIANA, DO YOU THINK WOMEN WERE SET BACK BY TRUMP AND SOME OF HIS LAWS IN COURT APPOINTMENTS?
>> Tiana Lowe: ECONOMICALLY, NOT AT ALL.
I THINK EVERYONE CAN ACCOUNT, UNTIL COVID, AND ON POSITIVE GLOBAL MY DAD, WOMEN AND MINORITIES WERE THE ONES THAT HAVE THE GREATEST WAGE GAINS, AND HAVE THE GREATEST JOB GAINS WITH MORE WOMEN AND MINORITIES THAN JUST REGULAR WHITE MEN.
SO I TRUMP'S POLICIES, I THINK WERE EXTRAORDINARY FOR WOMEN.
UM, YOU KNOW, BUT BUT IT IS VERY DEMORALIZING.
AND I SEE THIS AS SOMEONE WHO'S, YOU KNOW, A MIXED BAG ON TRUMP, BUT I ADMIT HE DID A LOT OF GOOD THINGS.
IT'S VERY DEMORALIZING THAT HALF OF THE PRESIDENTS IN MY LIFETIME HAVE BEEN CREDIBLY ACCUSED OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, NOT CRIMINAL RAPE.
I THINK THE I THINK THE REASON WHY IT COINCIDED WITH THE ME TO MOVEMENT, THIS, THIS DECREASE IN SATISFACTION IS NOT ABOUT THE ME TO MOVEMENT RATHER THAN ITS FAILURE.
AND THE FACT THAT IT BECAME EMINENTLY CLEAR, pESPECIALLY IN THE LAST YEAR, HOW POLITICALLY MOTIVATED IT WAS, AND HOW WILLING OTHER ACTIVIST MOVEMENTS WERE WILLING TO DISCARD IT.
>> Donna Edwards: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I BELIEVE THE #METOO MOVEMENT DID WAS IT OPENED WOMEN UP TO DISCLOSING WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO THEM IN THEIR WORKPLACES.
AND FOR US TO BE ABLE TO SEE THAT IN THE FULL VIEW OF THE PUBLIC, AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COMBINATION OF THAT, THE TRUMP YEARS, AND THE PANDEMIC HAS ENABLED WOMEN TO, LIKE, SEE THEIR WORKPLACES IN VERY DIFFERENT, VERY DIFFERENT WAYS.
I MEAN, ADD TO THE BURDEN ON CHILDCARE, ON SCHOOLING YOUR CHILDREN AT HOME DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND THESE WERE BURDENS THAT FELL LARGELY ON WOMEN.
SO IT'S NOT A SURPRISE -- [CROSS TALK] >> Tiana Lowe: THE TEACHERS UNIT -- >> Donna Edwards: TIANA, LET ME FINISH, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A SURPRISE TO ME THAT WOMEN ARE FACING, YOU KNOW, AT THIS MOMENT OF LOOKING AT THEIR JOBS AND THEIR WORK LIVES IN TRYING TO EVALUATE THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF THEM BEING ABLE TO MOVE AHEAD.
IT'S ALSO NOT A SURPRISE THAT MEN LOOK AT -- FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, THEY ARE EITHER, YOU KNOW, MORE SATISFIED OR THEY THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WOMEN ARE SORT OF EXAGGERATING THEIR DISSATISFACTION BECAUSE THEY ARE SITTING IN A DIFFERENT PLACE FROM WOMEN.
AND I ADD TO THAT WOMEN OF COLOR AND WHAT WE FACE IN THE WORKPLACE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT ACCOUNTS FOR A LOT OF THOSE DISSATISFACTION NUMBERS.
>> Bonnie Erbe: HISPANIC WOMEN AND MEN WERE FOR THE REPORT ON THIS ISSUE THAN WHITE PEOPLE.
VERY QUICKLY, EACH OF YOU, TWO SENTENCES, WHAT IS GOING ON THERE, STARTING WITH YOU, HILARY.
>> Hilary Rosen: WELL, I WAS GOING TO SAY, THIS WORKER DISSATISFACTION, TWO THIRDS OF MINIMUM-WAGE WORKERS ARE WOMEN.
AND OF THOSE -- OF THAT, HALF OF THEIR SALARIES ARE GOING TO CHILDCARE.
AND SO, WHAT YOU HAVE IS JUST THIS DISPROPORTIONATE EFFECT AMOUNT OF WOMEN AND PEOPLE OF COLOR AT THE MINIMUM WAGE LEVEL.
THEY ARE NOT GETTING THE PROGRESS THAT WE NEED.
>> Bonnie Erbe: TIANA, YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR, MEN AND WOMEN OF COLOR, ARE FARTHER APART.
>> Tiana Lowe: IT'S EASY, IT'S EASY.
JACOB BLAKE RAPED HIS WIFE, GOT A RESTRAINING ORDER FILED AGAINST HIM BECAUSE OF IT, VIOLATED THE RESTRAINING ORDER WHILE ARMED WITH A KNIFE AND THEN WAS SHOT.
AND THE HERO OF THE STORY WAS NOT HIS BLACK WIFE, IT WAS NOT THE BLACK WOMAN WHO HAD TO INCUR HIS VIOLENCE, BUT JACOB BLAKE.
JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS CALLED HIM A HERO AND MET WITH HIM.HEY SAID THIS NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED BECAUSE THE POLICE WERE TRYING TO SAVE A BLACK WOMAN AND THEY DECIDED TO MAKE JACOB BLAKE THE HERO?
OF COURSE, I WOULD BE LIVID.
IN D.C. WHERE I LIVE, ALMOST ALL OF THE VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR, AND IN ALL OF THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SITUATIONS, IT'S BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN.
AND THE FACT IS BECAUSE WE DECIDED BLM, DEFUND THE POLICE WAS A GREAT IDEA, WE HAVE TO PRETEND THAT THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.
>> Bonnie Erbe: NAN, YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR FOR THE REPORT ON THE DISSATISFACTION LEVEL I OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT LIVED MY LIFE AS A PERSON OF COLOR, BUT I CAN OFFER THESE THOUGHTS: I AGREE WITH TIANA THAT PUBLIC SAFETY IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT IN COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE IS STRIFE AND WHERE OPPORTUNITIES HAVE NOT BEEN AS GREAT FOR ADVANCEMENT AS THEY SHOULD BE.
I THINK THE KEY TO SO MUCH OF THIS IS EDUCATION.
IT IS THE WAY IN WHICH WE CAN ALL ADVANCED TOGETHER.
I THINK WE DO HAVE A TERRIBLE PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY WITH EDUCATION FAILING.
I THINK A LOT OF THAT LIES AT THE FOOT OF -- I'M SORRY TO SAY, BUT PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS, PARTICULARLY TEACHERS UNIONS WHICH TIANA REFERRED TO THAT, AND AS LONG AS WE ARE NOT ADVANCING GIRLS AND BOYS EDUCATIONALLY WERE COMMUNITIES ARE MOST IN NEED, WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SUFFER FROM A DISPROPORTIONATE LACK OF OPPORTUNITY AND FROM A LACK OF, I THINK, SOCIAL COHESION AND RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER.
>> Bonnie Erbe: WE ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF TIME.
I'M SORRY.
THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION OF TRYING TO.
LET'S CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON INSTAGRAM, TWITTER, AND FACEBOOK.
AND PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE, OUR PBS WEBSITE AT www.TOTHECONTRARY.org.
AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK "TO THE CONTRARY", PLEASE JOIN US NEXT TIME.
FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ONLINE EPISODE OF "TO THE CONTRARY," PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.