WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:03.264 (female announcer) This is a production of WKNO-Memphis. 00:03.264 --> 00:05.631 Production funding for "Sports Files" is made 00:05.631 --> 00:07.131 possible in part by.. 00:07.131 --> 00:11.598 (male announcer) Infiniti of Memphis has moved to Germantown 00:11.598 --> 00:13.664 road just half a mile north of Wolfchase Galleria and is proud 00:13.664 --> 00:16.064 to support W-K-N-O for its quality broadcasting and service 00:16.064 --> 00:17.564 to our community. 00:17.564 --> 00:20.231 Quality and service -- No wonder Infiniti of Memphis feels at 00:20.231 --> 00:22.231 home on W-K-N-O. 00:30.798 --> 00:33.231 Today on "Sports Files" we look at some of the pressing legal 00:33.231 --> 00:35.531 issues surrounding intercollegiate athletics, 00:35.531 --> 00:37.931 including the attempt to unionize athletes at 00:37.931 --> 00:40.798 Northwestern University, and I do so with Memphis Labor 00:40.798 --> 00:42.798 Attorney David Prather. 00:48.364 --> 00:59.931 [theme music] 00:59.931 --> 01:01.898 Each week on "Sports Files" our goal is 01:01.898 --> 01:03.498 to both entertain and educate. 01:03.498 --> 01:06.798 And today we'll be going to school on some major issues that 01:06.798 --> 01:09.364 could turn collegiate athletics inside-out. 01:09.364 --> 01:11.998 But first, the Grizzlies are looking to eliminate the Thunder 01:11.998 --> 01:14.464 from the post-season as the teams are going at it this 01:14.464 --> 01:15.764 evening at FedExForum. 01:15.764 --> 01:19.964 Tuesday night in Oklahoma City the Grizzlies nipped the Thunder 01:19.964 --> 01:23.098 100-99 in overtime to take game five, 01:23.098 --> 01:26.098 and grab a 3-2 lead in their first round Western Conference 01:26.098 --> 01:27.231 playoff series. 01:27.231 --> 01:30.464 This incredible best of seven set has produced four 01:30.464 --> 01:32.364 consecutive overtime games. 01:32.364 --> 01:35.598 In the win Tuesday, the Grizzlies blew a 20 point lead 01:35.598 --> 01:38.931 and survived a late game meltdown only to roar back and 01:38.931 --> 01:41.631 win their third overtime game in the series. 01:41.631 --> 01:44.598 Of course the last play was not without drama as Kevin Durant 01:44.598 --> 01:48.064 missed a three point attempt and Serge Abaci's putback at the 01:48.064 --> 01:50.864 buzzer, which would have won the game for O-K-C, 01:50.864 --> 01:54.364 was ruled to have come after the red light went on. 01:54.364 --> 01:56.764 If the Grizzlies win tonight they take the series and move 01:56.764 --> 01:58.164 into round two. 01:58.164 --> 02:00.431 If the Thunder can stave off elimination, 02:00.431 --> 02:03.264 they will force a decisive game seven on Saturday, 02:03.264 --> 02:05.464 back in Oklahoma City. 02:05.464 --> 02:08.298 It's also with heavy hearts that the Grizzlies battle the Thunder 02:08.298 --> 02:10.764 as former team owner Michael Heisley passed away last 02:10.764 --> 02:11.764 weekend. 02:11.764 --> 02:14.064 Later in the show we'll look back at the colorful former 02:14.064 --> 02:17.598 owner of the Grizzlies and show you why he cared so much for the 02:17.598 --> 02:19.164 Memphis community. 02:19.164 --> 02:22.264 But first the ever changing landscape of amateur sports on 02:22.264 --> 02:23.531 the collegiate level. 02:23.531 --> 02:26.831 And just how long will we be able to continue to say that? 02:26.831 --> 02:30.264 David Prather is a Memphis Attorney who deals in labor law. 02:30.264 --> 02:33.331 He has considerable experience with Fair Labor Standards Act 02:33.331 --> 02:36.964 litigation, including collective class actions and represents 02:36.964 --> 02:40.798 employers in department of labor wage and hour investigations. 02:40.798 --> 02:44.431 In 2008, he was appointed by the Bush administration to serve as 02:44.431 --> 02:47.031 senior advisor to the administration of the wage and 02:47.031 --> 02:48.464 hour division of the U.S. 02:48.464 --> 02:49.464 Department of Labor. 02:49.464 --> 02:53.231 Today David Prather lends his expertise on a number of issues 02:53.231 --> 02:55.698 including Northwestern's scholarship Football players 02:55.698 --> 02:58.764 unionizing and what impact it will have if it clears all 02:58.764 --> 02:59.764 hurdles. 02:59.764 --> 03:03.364 Plus the need for fundamental reform with the N-C-A-A and the 03:03.364 --> 03:06.431 pressing Ed O'Bannon class action anti-trust lawsuit 03:06.431 --> 03:07.564 against the N-C-A-A. 03:07.564 --> 03:10.964 Get out your notebook ready because class is in session, 03:10.964 --> 03:14.964 and it's next on "Sports Files." 03:14.964 --> 03:22.264 [theme music] 03:22.264 --> 03:22.898 Well David, thank you so much for 03:22.898 --> 03:23.898 joining us today. 03:23.898 --> 03:24.898 Appreciate you having me. 03:24.898 --> 03:25.898 Glad to be here. 03:25.898 --> 03:28.864 Let's update everybody where we stand with the case at 03:28.864 --> 03:32.631 Northwestern University with the football players voting on 03:32.631 --> 03:34.031 unionizing. 03:34.031 --> 03:35.031 Sure. 03:35.031 --> 03:38.931 So in March of this year, the regional director of the 03:38.931 --> 03:41.098 National Labor Relations Board, the N-L-R-B, 03:41.098 --> 03:45.131 ruled that the Northwestern scholarship football players are 03:45.131 --> 03:48.564 employees and would be eligible to form a union. 03:48.564 --> 03:51.631 And regional director also directed that an election be 03:51.631 --> 03:53.198 held on April 25th. 03:53.198 --> 03:57.198 Following that ruling, Northwestern has appealed that 03:57.198 --> 04:03.498 ruling to the full N-L-R-B to the board in Washington D.C. 04:03.498 --> 04:06.164 And N-L-R-B has accepted that appeal. 04:06.164 --> 04:09.898 And in doing so also said that the ballots -- the election 04:09.898 --> 04:11.898 would go forward but the ballots would be impounded. 04:11.898 --> 04:14.231 So since that time, we've had.. 04:14.231 --> 04:15.931 April 25th has passed. 04:15.931 --> 04:19.631 The right has been held and the ballots are going to sit there 04:19.631 --> 04:22.731 until the N-L-R-B rules on this appeal, 04:22.731 --> 04:23.731 which could be, you know. 04:23.731 --> 04:25.198 This is an important issue. 04:25.198 --> 04:26.198 They know it. 04:26.198 --> 04:28.198 They're gonna take their time on it. 04:28.198 --> 04:30.198 So it could be likely the end of the year, 04:30.198 --> 04:33.431 maybe even early part of next year before we even find out, 04:33.431 --> 04:36.564 you know, what the ruling is from the N-L-R-B and if they 04:36.564 --> 04:40.898 rule in favor of the employees or the athletes as the case may 04:40.898 --> 04:43.564 be then what the election results will be. 04:43.564 --> 04:44.698 Well my question is this. 04:44.698 --> 04:46.964 Why impound the votes? 04:46.964 --> 04:50.698 Can't you settle a lot of things and save a lot of time if you 04:50.698 --> 04:54.564 look at the votes, if they come up short and they turned it 04:54.564 --> 04:55.598 down, they voted it down? 04:55.598 --> 04:58.164 Then you save all that process, don't you? 04:58.164 --> 05:00.564 I think they just want an election that is clean and 05:00.564 --> 05:05.031 doesn't have -- isn't tainted by any kind of ruling that may come 05:05.031 --> 05:06.031 out. 05:06.031 --> 05:11.564 And they want to be able to make a ruling that's not tainted by 05:11.564 --> 05:12.764 the outcome of the vote. 05:12.764 --> 05:15.598 What are the advantages and what are the disadvantages of 05:15.598 --> 05:17.864 athletes basically becoming employees while going to school 05:17.864 --> 05:19.064 as scholar athletes? 05:19.064 --> 05:25.064 What are the pros and cons? 05:27.664 --> 05:29.664 Well certainly from the cons side, 05:29.664 --> 05:33.198 you know, there's the university. 05:33.198 --> 05:36.131 Their position is going to be this is a team. 05:36.131 --> 05:37.364 There needs to be team unity. 05:37.364 --> 05:39.831 They need to have -- be acting as one. 05:39.831 --> 05:45.264 And when you bring a third party in to being intermediary between 05:45.264 --> 05:48.464 the coaches and between the players that that's not a good 05:48.464 --> 05:52.098 thing and could put them in a competitive disadvantage versus 05:52.098 --> 05:53.098 other teams. 05:53.098 --> 05:54.498 So you know that's the cons. 05:54.498 --> 05:57.098 And apart from any issues also related to amateurs, 05:57.098 --> 06:01.331 I mean whether we believe in athletes should be paid or 06:01.331 --> 06:03.331 whether they should be, you know, 06:03.331 --> 06:05.331 it should be more of a pure system to the extent if that's 06:05.331 --> 06:06.331 possible. 06:06.331 --> 06:10.264 You know some of the cons is you see overtime college football 06:10.264 --> 06:12.998 become more and more commercialized and mroe and more 06:12.998 --> 06:13.998 of a business. 06:13.998 --> 06:17.531 You know there's a feeling out there that these players are the 06:17.531 --> 06:21.798 only ones who don't really have a say in how what their role is. 06:21.798 --> 06:24.498 There's a lot of money being made in the, 06:24.498 --> 06:26.931 you know, billions of dollars on college athletics. 06:26.931 --> 06:29.064 And the athletes don't have a say. 06:29.064 --> 06:33.298 And this is a possible way to get them a seat at the table. 06:33.298 --> 06:36.931 Is there a model for this anywhere else in the world with 06:36.931 --> 06:37.931 their amateur athletes? 06:37.931 --> 06:40.264 Because we know in Europe and other countries, 06:40.264 --> 06:42.398 we don't hear a lot about amateurism. 06:42.398 --> 06:45.731 They play professional athletes even for years and years in the 06:45.731 --> 06:46.731 Olympics. 06:46.731 --> 06:48.764 You know I'm not aware of anything, 06:48.764 --> 06:49.764 you know. 06:49.764 --> 06:53.731 The closest model as far as a unionization situation would 06:53.731 --> 06:57.098 obviously be professional sports where they are unionized. 06:57.098 --> 07:01.631 But as far as amateurs being unionized or just amateur sports 07:01.631 --> 07:03.864 in general, I'm not aware of it. 07:03.864 --> 07:04.864 The tax ramifications.. 07:04.864 --> 07:08.164 I mean it's easy to talk about wanting the backing of a union 07:08.164 --> 07:11.631 but when you are a collegiate athlete and now all of a sudden 07:11.631 --> 07:14.564 you become an employee and you think well that's great. 07:14.564 --> 07:15.564 There's the benefits. 07:15.564 --> 07:17.564 We just talked about the pros and the cons. 07:17.564 --> 07:19.564 But one of the cons could be taxes. 07:19.564 --> 07:21.598 You may be owning the money that they are giving you through a 07:21.598 --> 07:22.598 scholarship. 07:22.598 --> 07:24.064 So what about that? 07:24.064 --> 07:26.064 Be careful what you wish for, right? 07:26.064 --> 07:28.564 Yeah, in the case of Northwestern, 07:28.564 --> 07:33.931 their scholarships are valued at upwards of $75000 a year. 07:33.931 --> 07:38.798 And so the tax on that would be substantial. 07:38.798 --> 07:43.898 Currently under the I-R-S rules, a scholarship is not taxable 07:43.898 --> 07:48.231 unless it is a scholarship that is given in an exchange for 07:48.231 --> 07:49.231 services rendered. 07:49.231 --> 07:52.964 And that's the very nature of the N-L-R-B's ruling is that 07:52.964 --> 07:55.864 these student athletes or if their ruling stands. 07:55.864 --> 07:59.098 Employees are playing football in exchange for getting the 07:59.098 --> 08:00.098 scholarship. 08:00.098 --> 08:03.464 And so there could be an argument that would be taxable 08:03.464 --> 08:06.364 because that's a scholarship provided for services rendered. 08:06.364 --> 08:11.431 Now the I-R-S is not going to be bound by what the N-L-R-B says. 08:11.431 --> 08:15.764 But if they agreed with it and wanted to follow that same 08:15.764 --> 08:20.131 logic, then you could see a situation in which it was taxed. 08:20.131 --> 08:23.398 But you can't say for certain at this point. 08:23.398 --> 08:27.198 Will this be the process for any other school? 08:27.198 --> 08:29.264 Right now it's private schools. 08:29.264 --> 08:32.198 And I want you to explain why it would not affect public schools. 08:32.198 --> 08:36.698 But would this be the same process if Stanford wants to go 08:36.698 --> 08:42.131 through with this, Duke wants to go through with this? 08:42.131 --> 08:43.131 Yeah. 08:43.131 --> 08:47.331 So if CAPA, which is the organization that's attempting 08:47.331 --> 08:50.964 to unionize Northwestern wanted to go after Stanford tomorrow, 08:50.964 --> 08:54.764 they would first have to go and show that there is enough 08:54.764 --> 08:58.431 football players who want to be represented by a union. 08:58.431 --> 09:03.231 And you do that by getting card signed saying I wish to 09:03.231 --> 09:06.064 represented for bargaining purposes by this union. 09:06.064 --> 09:10.864 And you have to get 30% of the football players to sign. 09:10.864 --> 09:14.098 So they first have to go do that. 09:14.098 --> 09:18.898 They then take that to the N-L-R-B and say we want an 09:18.898 --> 09:19.898 election. 09:19.898 --> 09:24.131 And in this case, if the N-L-R-B were to uphold the regional 09:24.131 --> 09:26.898 directors ruling, they'd already have that feather in their cap. 09:26.898 --> 09:28.898 They wouldn't have to prove that like the CAPA did in the 09:28.898 --> 09:29.898 Northwestern case. 09:29.898 --> 09:31.898 So and then from there, they'd certify an election and they'd 09:31.898 --> 09:33.898 have to then prove that they have to win that election by 09:33.898 --> 09:35.898 getting over 50% of the scholarship football players to 09:35.898 --> 09:36.964 vote in favor of the union. 09:36.964 --> 09:42.431 So similar process but slightly easier if the N-L-R-B obviously 09:42.431 --> 09:45.498 were to uphold the regional directors willing that they are 09:45.498 --> 09:46.498 employees. 09:46.498 --> 09:47.498 You know as far as.. 09:47.498 --> 09:53.498 So that's the route for private school right now. 09:57.364 --> 10:00.631 In the case of public schools, the law that governs this is the 10:00.631 --> 10:02.131 National Labor Relations Act. 10:02.131 --> 10:07.131 And that's what the law that gives employees the right to 10:07.131 --> 10:08.131 unionize. 10:08.131 --> 10:11.898 That does not apply to the states, 10:11.898 --> 10:12.898 to state government. 10:12.898 --> 10:14.898 So a state school would not. 10:14.898 --> 10:16.898 You would not be able to unionize a state school under 10:16.898 --> 10:18.898 the National Labor Relations Act. 10:18.898 --> 10:22.398 Some states though have their own labor laws that would allow 10:22.398 --> 10:24.398 for unionization under state law. 10:24.398 --> 10:28.631 And that's kind of just going to be a patch work of laws that's 10:28.631 --> 10:30.931 going to vary from state to state. 10:30.931 --> 10:32.264 Does Tennessee allow it? 10:32.264 --> 10:33.631 You know I'm not sure. 10:33.631 --> 10:34.631 I haven't looked at it. 10:34.631 --> 10:35.964 I don't believe they do. 10:35.964 --> 10:38.031 It's going to be less common in your southern states. 10:38.031 --> 10:40.431 So that could obviously affect the University of Memphis, 10:40.431 --> 10:42.498 University of Tennessee if they went down this route. 10:42.498 --> 10:43.798 Vanderbilt's a private school. 10:43.798 --> 10:45.798 Of course they could do what's happening right now at 10:45.798 --> 10:46.798 Northwestern. 10:46.798 --> 10:48.798 I want to show everyone a graphic right now. 10:48.798 --> 10:54.131 This kind of goes back to March 26th after the N-L-R-B decision, 10:54.131 --> 10:55.598 the original decision. 10:55.598 --> 10:56.598 This comes from U.S. 10:56.598 --> 10:59.298 Senator Lamar Alexander, the senior Republican and on the 10:59.298 --> 11:02.698 Senate Health Education labor Intentions Committee. 11:02.698 --> 11:08.698 Quote -- I'm sure you've seen this quote. 11:22.964 --> 11:24.231 Your comments? 11:24.231 --> 11:26.231 Well you know I think that's your.. 11:26.231 --> 11:29.064 We don't now how it's going to turn out. 11:29.064 --> 11:32.964 But that's your worst case scenario that the kind of labor 11:32.964 --> 11:37.198 strike that you often get and the tension that you get in 11:37.198 --> 11:40.898 labor relations would follow in to college football or college 11:40.898 --> 11:42.031 basketball. 11:42.031 --> 11:46.098 You know, strikes, tense negotiation sessions. 11:46.098 --> 11:48.864 You know, those type of situations. 11:48.864 --> 11:52.864 You know it would be naive to think that it couldn't happen. 11:52.864 --> 11:57.164 On the other hand, you know, anytime you've moved from 11:57.164 --> 11:59.998 amateurism to professionalism or you've, 11:59.998 --> 12:04.331 for instance, people thought that it might be the demise of 12:04.331 --> 12:06.764 the Olympics when we start allowing professionals in to the 12:06.764 --> 12:07.764 Olympics. 12:07.764 --> 12:12.364 And when free agency has been introduced in to certain 12:12.364 --> 12:13.398 professional sports. 12:13.398 --> 12:16.398 There was certainly dooms day scenarios put out there. 12:16.398 --> 12:17.631 So nobody knows. 12:17.631 --> 12:24.198 But I do think that the potential for labor disputes 12:24.198 --> 12:27.898 that could fundamentally change the game and fundamentally 12:27.898 --> 12:31.664 change the relationship between player and coach and player and 12:31.664 --> 12:33.498 university is very real. 12:33.498 --> 12:37.864 I don't think it's unrealistic to think that that worse case 12:37.864 --> 12:39.864 scenario that he describes could occur. 12:39.864 --> 12:41.864 At Northwestern, we're talking football. 12:41.864 --> 12:44.798 Senator Alexander just mentioned basketball. 12:44.798 --> 12:50.064 Are we talking about only sports that are revenue making sports 12:50.064 --> 12:53.364 or can a softball try to unionize? 12:53.364 --> 12:55.664 Can a badminton team try to unionize? 12:55.664 --> 12:56.931 How far does it go? 12:56.931 --> 13:02.631 Well the way that the regional director in Chicago that wrote 13:02.631 --> 13:06.731 on the Northwestern case, the way his opinion read, 13:06.731 --> 13:11.798 I don't think it would preclude a non-revenue sport from 13:14.731 --> 13:15.731 unionizing. 13:15.731 --> 13:19.764 As long as they were receiving, you know, 13:19.764 --> 13:22.764 value for their services, you know, 13:22.764 --> 13:26.164 the argument that they are employees could apply. 13:26.164 --> 13:31.598 But that particular ruling related solely to the football 13:31.598 --> 13:33.131 players at Northwestern. 13:33.131 --> 13:38.831 So if somebody tried to unionize a non-revenue sport, 13:38.831 --> 13:40.831 they would have to, you know, they would likely have to go 13:40.831 --> 13:43.731 through that kind of hearing again to determine whether that 13:43.731 --> 13:46.264 particular sport is an appropriate, 13:46.264 --> 13:48.898 whether those players on that particular team at that 13:48.898 --> 13:50.898 particular school are employees. 13:50.898 --> 13:53.231 And the fact that they are losing money, 13:53.231 --> 13:56.698 that it's not a commercial enterprise would be a factor 13:56.698 --> 14:00.164 that's, you know, would be in the university's favor that 14:00.164 --> 14:03.631 wasn't in the university's favor in the Northwestern case because 14:03.631 --> 14:06.731 football, they make a lot of money off football. 14:06.731 --> 14:10.198 We have this interesting deal going on with the possible 14:10.198 --> 14:13.331 unionization of football players at Northwestern and who knows 14:13.331 --> 14:16.031 what other schools want to follow suit. 14:16.031 --> 14:18.564 We have an even bigger issue that's affecting collegiate 14:18.564 --> 14:21.231 athletics and that is the O'Bannon in class action 14:21.231 --> 14:23.364 anti-trust lawsuit, For those who don't know, 14:23.364 --> 14:27.464 it's expected to go to court soon. 14:27.464 --> 14:29.531 But as you told me before we started taping, 14:29.531 --> 14:31.198 there may be delays. 14:31.198 --> 14:36.731 Basically, O'Bannon and the athletes he's representing are 14:36.731 --> 14:40.298 suing for the use of the name, the likeness, 14:40.298 --> 14:46.898 the image and trying to be rewarded monetarily. 14:46.898 --> 14:48.898 What does this do for collegiate athletics? 14:48.898 --> 14:51.564 Does it completely slam open Pandora's box? 14:51.564 --> 14:55.531 Yeah, I think the Ed O'Bannon case and there's a similar case 14:55.531 --> 14:59.864 that's just recently been filed in New Jersey that are really 14:59.864 --> 15:02.231 attacking the heart of the N-C-A-A model, 15:02.231 --> 15:06.864 the amateur model where athletes are not allowed to receive money 15:06.864 --> 15:08.664 in exchange for their services. 15:08.664 --> 15:13.098 And these lawsuits, these anti-trust lawsuits are really 15:13.098 --> 15:18.498 attacking that model at its heart and trying to get 15:18.498 --> 15:23.598 compensation for athletes who are certainly the work horses in 15:23.598 --> 15:24.598 the business. 15:24.598 --> 15:28.231 That's gonna change things a great deal and I think a lot 15:28.231 --> 15:34.898 more than what the Northwestern case could potentially change. 15:34.898 --> 15:40.431 So you know there it would really change the revenue model. 15:40.431 --> 15:44.764 It would go at the type of money that they can get from jerseys. 15:44.764 --> 15:48.764 There's already been a settlement with the plaintiffs 15:48.764 --> 15:51.598 in the video game companies are using their likeness. 15:51.598 --> 15:53.298 It could impact. 15:53.298 --> 15:56.398 It could cause them to have to share T-V revenues, 15:56.398 --> 15:59.198 which is the real cash cow for the N-C-A-A. 15:59.198 --> 16:00.198 Billions of dollars. 16:00.198 --> 16:01.431 Yes, exactly. 16:01.431 --> 16:04.364 And so you know now you're talking about somebody else is 16:04.364 --> 16:08.431 getting a piece of that pie, which could affect, 16:08.431 --> 16:12.331 you know, universities ability to pay coaches the way they're 16:12.331 --> 16:16.798 currently paying them, to build these new nice facilities a lot 16:16.798 --> 16:18.798 of the universities are building. 16:18.798 --> 16:21.531 Then you've got title nine implications where if you 16:21.531 --> 16:24.298 provide certain money to the male athletes, 16:24.298 --> 16:26.298 you have to provide it on an equal basis to the female 16:26.298 --> 16:28.298 athletes and the non-revenue sports including. 16:28.298 --> 16:32.098 So it's going to require a real shift in budgeting and what 16:32.098 --> 16:36.698 they're going to be able to do as a university and an 16:36.698 --> 16:37.698 institution. 16:37.698 --> 16:39.064 Let me ask you this. 16:39.064 --> 16:40.064 Quick answer. 16:40.064 --> 16:45.064 Do you think O'Bannon wins this case or do you think they settle 16:45.064 --> 16:46.064 or he loses? 16:46.064 --> 16:49.864 From everything I hear, settlement is not likely. 16:49.864 --> 16:51.731 I think there are some. 16:51.731 --> 16:56.298 There's been some A-Ds who have come out and would like a 16:56.298 --> 16:57.298 settlement. 16:57.298 --> 17:00.431 But the N-C-A-A seems to have dug in its heel. 17:00.431 --> 17:02.698 So I don't think that's likely. 17:02.698 --> 17:04.231 Because how do you? 17:04.231 --> 17:08.764 How do you give even an inch there without opening up the 17:08.764 --> 17:12.564 whole model, without changing the whole amateur basis of the 17:12.564 --> 17:13.564 model? 17:13.564 --> 17:16.998 So it's going to be tough to reach a settlement. 17:16.998 --> 17:18.998 Now you know as to who wins, it's a tough call. 17:18.998 --> 17:23.264 There have been several lawsuits throughout time where the 17:23.264 --> 17:27.831 N-C-A-A has been sued on anti-trust grounds that have 17:27.831 --> 17:29.298 challenged the amateur model. 17:29.298 --> 17:32.564 And to this point, the N-C-A-A has prevailed on those on the 17:32.564 --> 17:36.198 grounds that this isn't a commercial enterprise and that 17:36.198 --> 17:41.931 the amateurs in that particular model is the benefit to the 17:41.931 --> 17:44.531 system and to competition. 17:44.531 --> 17:48.364 So the N-C-A-A at this point has got some history on their side. 17:48.364 --> 17:49.731 But it'd be interesting to see. 17:49.731 --> 17:52.098 They have history but they also are worried. 17:52.098 --> 17:53.098 There's no question. 17:53.098 --> 17:56.064 And now the N-C-A-A board of directors recently met. 17:56.064 --> 17:57.164 There's going to be changes. 17:57.164 --> 17:58.164 There's no question. 17:58.164 --> 18:01.664 In fact, there could be changes to the full cost of attendance 18:01.664 --> 18:02.664 scholarships. 18:02.664 --> 18:05.764 There could be changes to continuing education and medical 18:05.764 --> 18:09.098 care for down the road for collegiate athletics, 18:09.098 --> 18:12.764 insurance, all types of things that will be decided on in the 18:12.764 --> 18:13.764 not too distant future. 18:13.764 --> 18:16.264 Big five conferences -- the big five. 18:16.264 --> 18:19.131 We mean Pac 12, Big 10, etcetera. 18:19.131 --> 18:21.598 They would have the ability to enact rules and other Division I 18:21.598 --> 18:24.031 schools from other conferences, for example Memphis in the 18:24.031 --> 18:29.198 American, they could follow suit if they decide to do so. 18:29.198 --> 18:32.498 But again, a lot of rule and acting by the Big Five. 18:32.498 --> 18:35.064 So a lot of power that the N-C-A-A's giving up. 18:35.064 --> 18:38.564 There has to be something major, change to the N-C-A-A for them 18:38.564 --> 18:39.898 to survive. 18:39.898 --> 18:40.898 Do you think they will? 18:40.898 --> 18:43.698 Do you think the N-C-A-A will ultimately be around and still 18:43.698 --> 18:47.998 be the so-called governing body of the collegiate athletics 50 18:47.998 --> 18:48.998 years from now? 18:48.998 --> 18:54.264 You know the question of what the N-C-A-A is doing right now 18:54.264 --> 18:57.631 is too little too late to save themselves. 18:57.631 --> 19:00.231 And there was a time where I think people thought that's 19:00.231 --> 19:01.531 striking a fair balance. 19:01.531 --> 19:05.731 A kid gets a scholarship and gets to play football. 19:05.731 --> 19:07.731 And you know that's fair grounds. 19:07.731 --> 19:10.964 And now as you said billions of dollars are going through the 19:10.964 --> 19:13.198 universities and millions are going to the coaches, 19:13.198 --> 19:17.164 people are starting to wonder is that balance still fair. 19:17.164 --> 19:20.764 Is that scenario still one that we thinks a fair one? 19:20.764 --> 19:24.464 So the N-C-A-A is going to have to give I think to give back 19:24.464 --> 19:26.698 that public perception and keep that balance. 19:26.698 --> 19:29.164 Now they're always going to need somebody to administer 19:29.164 --> 19:32.064 tournaments, administer bowl games. 19:32.064 --> 19:34.731 And there's always going to be rules in place and somebody's 19:34.731 --> 19:36.731 going to have to enforce those rules. 19:36.731 --> 19:38.731 So the N-C-A-A I think will be there. 19:38.731 --> 19:41.931 It's just a question of whether this will be an amateur model in 19:41.931 --> 19:42.931 the future. 19:42.931 --> 19:46.164 So many subjects, so many topics out there that we're just 19:46.164 --> 19:47.431 scratching the surface with. 19:47.431 --> 19:50.764 But needless to say, there's going to be a lot of changes in 19:50.764 --> 19:53.998 what we know as we've known for years what intercollegiate 19:53.998 --> 19:56.598 sports is about, what amateurism is about. 19:56.598 --> 19:58.264 it's all changing. 19:58.264 --> 20:00.264 And David, we appreciate your time. 20:00.264 --> 20:02.664 We appreciate your expertise just touching on some of these 20:02.664 --> 20:03.664 subjects for us. 20:03.664 --> 20:05.664 Well I appreciate you having me. 20:05.664 --> 20:06.664 I've enjoyed it. 20:06.664 --> 20:07.664 Thank you so much. 20:07.664 --> 20:08.664 That's David Prather. 20:08.664 --> 20:09.664 We'll take a break. 20:09.664 --> 20:12.831 Overtime is next. 20:15.998 --> 20:17.164 [theme music] 20:17.164 --> 20:18.598 Three.. 20:18.598 --> 20:19.198 Two.. 20:19.198 --> 20:21.198 One.. 20:23.998 --> 20:25.831 [buzzer sounds] 20:25.831 --> 20:29.164 In 2000, Michael Heisley purchased the Vancouver 20:29.164 --> 20:32.431 Grizzlies and with the hard work and dedication of the N-B-A 20:32.431 --> 20:34.431 pursuit team in Memphis, Heisley, 20:34.431 --> 20:37.664 a Chicago Billionaire, relocated his team to the bluff city. 20:37.664 --> 20:39.964 The rest, as they say, is history. 20:39.964 --> 20:43.264 Heisley would control majority ownership in the team until his 20:43.264 --> 20:46.198 sale of the organization two years ago to a group headed by 20:46.198 --> 20:50.198 Silicon Valley tech guru and wireless engineer Robert Pera. 20:50.198 --> 20:52.998 Last Saturday, news spread like wirefire that Heisley had passed 20:52.998 --> 20:55.098 away at the age of 77. 20:55.098 --> 20:58.831 The colorful, boisterous giant of a man died of complications 20:58.831 --> 21:02.298 from a massive stroke suffered nearly 15 months ago. 21:02.298 --> 21:04.431 I was able to have Michael Heisley on my radio show on 21:04.431 --> 21:07.764 Sports 56 several times and he never disappointed. 21:07.764 --> 21:10.698 He shot from the hip and wasn't afraid to step on toes. 21:10.698 --> 21:13.398 But he was fair and most importantly honest. 21:13.398 --> 21:15.698 Heisley also made an appearance with Geoff Caulkins here on 21:15.698 --> 21:17.698 "Sports Files" several years ago, 21:17.698 --> 21:20.364 and when he spoke to the media he always made sure to talk 21:20.364 --> 21:22.531 about the importance of the team having an impact on the 21:22.531 --> 21:23.531 community. 21:23.531 --> 21:25.598 And I would say he accomplished that goal, 21:25.598 --> 21:28.431 as just last year the Grizzlies were named the top franchise in 21:28.431 --> 21:30.664 professional sports. 21:30.664 --> 21:32.664 So here's a look back at Michael Heisley, 21:32.664 --> 21:35.731 the man who brought big time professional sports to Memphis. 21:38.031 --> 21:40.431 I think that we've made a difference in Memphis. 21:40.431 --> 21:44.731 I think that's open to a lot of discussion by different people. 21:44.731 --> 21:49.398 But from my point of view, I think that we have made an 21:49.398 --> 21:50.864 impact on the city. 21:50.864 --> 21:54.564 That was our number one, at least my number one priority. 21:54.564 --> 21:56.564 I think if people went back and read, 21:56.564 --> 21:58.564 that's what we said we wanted to do. 21:58.564 --> 22:00.564 We didn't just want to be a basketball team. 22:00.564 --> 22:03.631 We wanted to be somebody that basically left an imprint on the 22:03.631 --> 22:04.631 city. 22:04.631 --> 22:05.798 And I think we have done that. 22:05.798 --> 22:08.598 Would I have liked to have more success as a basketball team? 22:08.598 --> 22:09.598 Obviously. 22:09.598 --> 22:14.964 All my life I've been an extremely competitive person or 22:14.964 --> 22:18.764 I wouldn't have been as successful. 22:18.764 --> 22:22.731 When you lose, you know it is extremely painful. 22:22.731 --> 22:26.064 When you lose in front of thousands of people that are as 22:26.064 --> 22:29.464 nice as they are and thank you and everything else, 22:29.464 --> 22:31.398 it makes it even more hurtful. 22:31.398 --> 22:35.064 So you know that's been very difficult for me to get. 22:35.064 --> 22:38.931 I would have liked to been more successful with the team than 22:38.931 --> 22:39.931 we've been. 22:39.931 --> 22:45.331 My intentions, I think, have been focused on basically trying 22:45.331 --> 22:49.731 to do the best job to make the Grizzlies part of the fabric of 22:49.731 --> 22:50.731 Memphis. 22:50.731 --> 22:53.298 And quite honestly, in some regards we; 22:53.298 --> 22:56.064 ve done a pretty decent job. 22:56.064 --> 22:59.731 In other areas, you know its work unfinished. 22:59.731 --> 23:02.931 And I think we can get there. 23:02.931 --> 23:09.098 But that is so much harder than I ever perceived it would be. 23:09.098 --> 23:11.464 I am a very upfront person. 23:11.464 --> 23:14.798 And sometimes people don't like what I have to say. 23:14.798 --> 23:20.731 But I guess if I had to be a certain type of person, 23:20.731 --> 23:24.231 I would want to be a person that told people exactly what's on my 23:24.231 --> 23:25.231 mind. 23:25.231 --> 23:27.698 And that's why generally speaking, 23:27.698 --> 23:29.698 if you go back and look at the record, 23:29.698 --> 23:31.964 you'll find very few times I've said, 23:31.964 --> 23:34.331 given a statement, and then turned out and did something 23:34.331 --> 23:35.331 else. 23:35.331 --> 23:37.531 You know I've been extremely fortunate. 23:37.531 --> 23:39.331 I started very poor. 23:39.331 --> 23:42.198 And I've made a substantial amount of money. 23:42.198 --> 23:46.664 And I firmly believe that money corrupts. 23:46.664 --> 23:49.164 And I think that if you don't give back, 23:49.164 --> 23:50.298 it will corrupt you. 23:50.298 --> 23:53.231 And worse, it will corrupt your children and your family. 23:53.231 --> 23:58.598 And so it has been a very strong purpose in my family that we 23:58.598 --> 24:00.198 would try to give back. 24:00.198 --> 24:03.164 And I got this idea that owning a sports team. 24:03.164 --> 24:05.164 People in this country are so sports nuts, 24:05.164 --> 24:09.831 that owning a sports team, you could get people to support your 24:09.831 --> 24:11.431 charities and so on like that. 24:11.431 --> 24:13.431 And you could have even a bigger impact. 24:13.431 --> 24:19.031 And so we looked at a couple of things before we ended up with 24:19.031 --> 24:20.531 the Grizzlies. 24:20.531 --> 24:26.531 And quite frankly, I'm satisfied that we have made a difference 24:28.731 --> 24:30.364 in Memphis. 24:30.364 --> 24:32.664 I'm sure people would like to think I should have made a 24:32.664 --> 24:33.864 bigger difference. 24:33.864 --> 24:38.064 Would I be much more satisfied? 24:38.064 --> 24:40.898 I'm not trying to say I'm satisfied. 24:40.898 --> 24:43.864 Would it be much more satisfied to have been a winner? 24:43.864 --> 24:45.364 I think people want more. 24:45.364 --> 24:48.464 We got to the play-offs. 24:48.464 --> 24:52.664 We were getting ready to move in to the new arena and so on and 24:52.664 --> 24:53.998 so forth. 24:53.998 --> 24:55.564 People had a new team. 24:55.564 --> 24:59.898 Expectations were a lot less than what we had. 24:59.898 --> 25:05.831 We went from 20-some wins with a team that haven't done in 25:05.831 --> 25:08.964 Vancouver anything and we suddenly were at 50. 25:08.964 --> 25:12.631 You know and that was a tremendous move. 25:12.631 --> 25:17.298 And that shows you that what success would do if the 25:17.298 --> 25:21.764 Grizzlies could basically replicate that level of success 25:21.764 --> 25:23.031 but it would have to be more. 25:23.031 --> 25:25.831 To get to that, we would not only have to get to the 25:25.831 --> 25:28.598 play-offs, we would have to win games in the play-offs. 25:34.231 --> 25:36.464 And of course we send our condolences to Michael's wife 25:36.464 --> 25:40.431 Agnes, his five children, and the entire Heisley family. 25:40.431 --> 25:42.431 And that will do it for this week's show. 25:42.431 --> 25:46.431 We'll see you next time. 26:05.098 --> 26:07.964 (female announcer) Production funding for "Sports Files" is 26:07.964 --> 26:10.198 made possible in part by.. 26:10.198 --> 26:12.631 (male announcer) Infiniti of Memphis has moved to Germantown 26:12.631 --> 26:15.598 road just half a mile north of Wolfchase Galleria and is proud 26:15.598 --> 26:18.798 to support W-K-N-O for its quality broadcasting and service 26:18.798 --> 26:19.998 to our community. 26:19.998 --> 26:22.298 Quality and service -- No wonder Infiniti of Memphis feels at 26:22.298 --> 26:24.298 home on W-K-N-O.