1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,264 (female announcer) This is a production of WKNO-Memphis. 2 00:00:03,264 --> 00:00:05,631 Production funding for "Sports Files" is made 3 00:00:05,631 --> 00:00:07,131 possible in part by.. 4 00:00:07,131 --> 00:00:11,598 (male announcer) Infiniti of Memphis has moved to Germantown 5 00:00:11,598 --> 00:00:13,664 road just half a mile north of Wolfchase Galleria and is proud 6 00:00:13,664 --> 00:00:16,064 to support W-K-N-O for its quality broadcasting and service 7 00:00:16,064 --> 00:00:17,564 to our community. 8 00:00:17,564 --> 00:00:20,231 Quality and service -- No wonder Infiniti of Memphis feels at 9 00:00:20,231 --> 00:00:22,231 home on W-K-N-O. 10 00:00:30,798 --> 00:00:33,231 Today on "Sports Files" we look at some of the pressing legal 11 00:00:33,231 --> 00:00:35,531 issues surrounding intercollegiate athletics, 12 00:00:35,531 --> 00:00:37,931 including the attempt to unionize athletes at 13 00:00:37,931 --> 00:00:40,798 Northwestern University, and I do so with Memphis Labor 14 00:00:40,798 --> 00:00:42,798 Attorney David Prather. 15 00:00:48,364 --> 00:00:59,931 [theme music] 16 00:00:59,931 --> 00:01:01,898 Each week on "Sports Files" our goal is 17 00:01:01,898 --> 00:01:03,498 to both entertain and educate. 18 00:01:03,498 --> 00:01:06,798 And today we'll be going to school on some major issues that 19 00:01:06,798 --> 00:01:09,364 could turn collegiate athletics inside-out. 20 00:01:09,364 --> 00:01:11,998 But first, the Grizzlies are looking to eliminate the Thunder 21 00:01:11,998 --> 00:01:14,464 from the post-season as the teams are going at it this 22 00:01:14,464 --> 00:01:15,764 evening at FedExForum. 23 00:01:15,764 --> 00:01:19,964 Tuesday night in Oklahoma City the Grizzlies nipped the Thunder 24 00:01:19,964 --> 00:01:23,098 100-99 in overtime to take game five, 25 00:01:23,098 --> 00:01:26,098 and grab a 3-2 lead in their first round Western Conference 26 00:01:26,098 --> 00:01:27,231 playoff series. 27 00:01:27,231 --> 00:01:30,464 This incredible best of seven set has produced four 28 00:01:30,464 --> 00:01:32,364 consecutive overtime games. 29 00:01:32,364 --> 00:01:35,598 In the win Tuesday, the Grizzlies blew a 20 point lead 30 00:01:35,598 --> 00:01:38,931 and survived a late game meltdown only to roar back and 31 00:01:38,931 --> 00:01:41,631 win their third overtime game in the series. 32 00:01:41,631 --> 00:01:44,598 Of course the last play was not without drama as Kevin Durant 33 00:01:44,598 --> 00:01:48,064 missed a three point attempt and Serge Abaci's putback at the 34 00:01:48,064 --> 00:01:50,864 buzzer, which would have won the game for O-K-C, 35 00:01:50,864 --> 00:01:54,364 was ruled to have come after the red light went on. 36 00:01:54,364 --> 00:01:56,764 If the Grizzlies win tonight they take the series and move 37 00:01:56,764 --> 00:01:58,164 into round two. 38 00:01:58,164 --> 00:02:00,431 If the Thunder can stave off elimination, 39 00:02:00,431 --> 00:02:03,264 they will force a decisive game seven on Saturday, 40 00:02:03,264 --> 00:02:05,464 back in Oklahoma City. 41 00:02:05,464 --> 00:02:08,298 It's also with heavy hearts that the Grizzlies battle the Thunder 42 00:02:08,298 --> 00:02:10,764 as former team owner Michael Heisley passed away last 43 00:02:10,764 --> 00:02:11,764 weekend. 44 00:02:11,764 --> 00:02:14,064 Later in the show we'll look back at the colorful former 45 00:02:14,064 --> 00:02:17,598 owner of the Grizzlies and show you why he cared so much for the 46 00:02:17,598 --> 00:02:19,164 Memphis community. 47 00:02:19,164 --> 00:02:22,264 But first the ever changing landscape of amateur sports on 48 00:02:22,264 --> 00:02:23,531 the collegiate level. 49 00:02:23,531 --> 00:02:26,831 And just how long will we be able to continue to say that? 50 00:02:26,831 --> 00:02:30,264 David Prather is a Memphis Attorney who deals in labor law. 51 00:02:30,264 --> 00:02:33,331 He has considerable experience with Fair Labor Standards Act 52 00:02:33,331 --> 00:02:36,964 litigation, including collective class actions and represents 53 00:02:36,964 --> 00:02:40,798 employers in department of labor wage and hour investigations. 54 00:02:40,798 --> 00:02:44,431 In 2008, he was appointed by the Bush administration to serve as 55 00:02:44,431 --> 00:02:47,031 senior advisor to the administration of the wage and 56 00:02:47,031 --> 00:02:48,464 hour division of the U.S. 57 00:02:48,464 --> 00:02:49,464 Department of Labor. 58 00:02:49,464 --> 00:02:53,231 Today David Prather lends his expertise on a number of issues 59 00:02:53,231 --> 00:02:55,698 including Northwestern's scholarship Football players 60 00:02:55,698 --> 00:02:58,764 unionizing and what impact it will have if it clears all 61 00:02:58,764 --> 00:02:59,764 hurdles. 62 00:02:59,764 --> 00:03:03,364 Plus the need for fundamental reform with the N-C-A-A and the 63 00:03:03,364 --> 00:03:06,431 pressing Ed O'Bannon class action anti-trust lawsuit 64 00:03:06,431 --> 00:03:07,564 against the N-C-A-A. 65 00:03:07,564 --> 00:03:10,964 Get out your notebook ready because class is in session, 66 00:03:10,964 --> 00:03:14,964 and it's next on "Sports Files." 67 00:03:14,964 --> 00:03:22,264 [theme music] 68 00:03:22,264 --> 00:03:22,898 Well David, thank you so much for 69 00:03:22,898 --> 00:03:23,898 joining us today. 70 00:03:23,898 --> 00:03:24,898 Appreciate you having me. 71 00:03:24,898 --> 00:03:25,898 Glad to be here. 72 00:03:25,898 --> 00:03:28,864 Let's update everybody where we stand with the case at 73 00:03:28,864 --> 00:03:32,631 Northwestern University with the football players voting on 74 00:03:32,631 --> 00:03:34,031 unionizing. 75 00:03:34,031 --> 00:03:35,031 Sure. 76 00:03:35,031 --> 00:03:38,931 So in March of this year, the regional director of the 77 00:03:38,931 --> 00:03:41,098 National Labor Relations Board, the N-L-R-B, 78 00:03:41,098 --> 00:03:45,131 ruled that the Northwestern scholarship football players are 79 00:03:45,131 --> 00:03:48,564 employees and would be eligible to form a union. 80 00:03:48,564 --> 00:03:51,631 And regional director also directed that an election be 81 00:03:51,631 --> 00:03:53,198 held on April 25th. 82 00:03:53,198 --> 00:03:57,198 Following that ruling, Northwestern has appealed that 83 00:03:57,198 --> 00:04:03,498 ruling to the full N-L-R-B to the board in Washington D.C. 84 00:04:03,498 --> 00:04:06,164 And N-L-R-B has accepted that appeal. 85 00:04:06,164 --> 00:04:09,898 And in doing so also said that the ballots -- the election 86 00:04:09,898 --> 00:04:11,898 would go forward but the ballots would be impounded. 87 00:04:11,898 --> 00:04:14,231 So since that time, we've had.. 88 00:04:14,231 --> 00:04:15,931 April 25th has passed. 89 00:04:15,931 --> 00:04:19,631 The right has been held and the ballots are going to sit there 90 00:04:19,631 --> 00:04:22,731 until the N-L-R-B rules on this appeal, 91 00:04:22,731 --> 00:04:23,731 which could be, you know. 92 00:04:23,731 --> 00:04:25,198 This is an important issue. 93 00:04:25,198 --> 00:04:26,198 They know it. 94 00:04:26,198 --> 00:04:28,198 They're gonna take their time on it. 95 00:04:28,198 --> 00:04:30,198 So it could be likely the end of the year, 96 00:04:30,198 --> 00:04:33,431 maybe even early part of next year before we even find out, 97 00:04:33,431 --> 00:04:36,564 you know, what the ruling is from the N-L-R-B and if they 98 00:04:36,564 --> 00:04:40,898 rule in favor of the employees or the athletes as the case may 99 00:04:40,898 --> 00:04:43,564 be then what the election results will be. 100 00:04:43,564 --> 00:04:44,698 Well my question is this. 101 00:04:44,698 --> 00:04:46,964 Why impound the votes? 102 00:04:46,964 --> 00:04:50,698 Can't you settle a lot of things and save a lot of time if you 103 00:04:50,698 --> 00:04:54,564 look at the votes, if they come up short and they turned it 104 00:04:54,564 --> 00:04:55,598 down, they voted it down? 105 00:04:55,598 --> 00:04:58,164 Then you save all that process, don't you? 106 00:04:58,164 --> 00:05:00,564 I think they just want an election that is clean and 107 00:05:00,564 --> 00:05:05,031 doesn't have -- isn't tainted by any kind of ruling that may come 108 00:05:05,031 --> 00:05:06,031 out. 109 00:05:06,031 --> 00:05:11,564 And they want to be able to make a ruling that's not tainted by 110 00:05:11,564 --> 00:05:12,764 the outcome of the vote. 111 00:05:12,764 --> 00:05:15,598 What are the advantages and what are the disadvantages of 112 00:05:15,598 --> 00:05:17,864 athletes basically becoming employees while going to school 113 00:05:17,864 --> 00:05:19,064 as scholar athletes? 114 00:05:19,064 --> 00:05:25,064 What are the pros and cons? 115 00:05:27,664 --> 00:05:29,664 Well certainly from the cons side, 116 00:05:29,664 --> 00:05:33,198 you know, there's the university. 117 00:05:33,198 --> 00:05:36,131 Their position is going to be this is a team. 118 00:05:36,131 --> 00:05:37,364 There needs to be team unity. 119 00:05:37,364 --> 00:05:39,831 They need to have -- be acting as one. 120 00:05:39,831 --> 00:05:45,264 And when you bring a third party in to being intermediary between 121 00:05:45,264 --> 00:05:48,464 the coaches and between the players that that's not a good 122 00:05:48,464 --> 00:05:52,098 thing and could put them in a competitive disadvantage versus 123 00:05:52,098 --> 00:05:53,098 other teams. 124 00:05:53,098 --> 00:05:54,498 So you know that's the cons. 125 00:05:54,498 --> 00:05:57,098 And apart from any issues also related to amateurs, 126 00:05:57,098 --> 00:06:01,331 I mean whether we believe in athletes should be paid or 127 00:06:01,331 --> 00:06:03,331 whether they should be, you know, 128 00:06:03,331 --> 00:06:05,331 it should be more of a pure system to the extent if that's 129 00:06:05,331 --> 00:06:06,331 possible. 130 00:06:06,331 --> 00:06:10,264 You know some of the cons is you see overtime college football 131 00:06:10,264 --> 00:06:12,998 become more and more commercialized and mroe and more 132 00:06:12,998 --> 00:06:13,998 of a business. 133 00:06:13,998 --> 00:06:17,531 You know there's a feeling out there that these players are the 134 00:06:17,531 --> 00:06:21,798 only ones who don't really have a say in how what their role is. 135 00:06:21,798 --> 00:06:24,498 There's a lot of money being made in the, 136 00:06:24,498 --> 00:06:26,931 you know, billions of dollars on college athletics. 137 00:06:26,931 --> 00:06:29,064 And the athletes don't have a say. 138 00:06:29,064 --> 00:06:33,298 And this is a possible way to get them a seat at the table. 139 00:06:33,298 --> 00:06:36,931 Is there a model for this anywhere else in the world with 140 00:06:36,931 --> 00:06:37,931 their amateur athletes? 141 00:06:37,931 --> 00:06:40,264 Because we know in Europe and other countries, 142 00:06:40,264 --> 00:06:42,398 we don't hear a lot about amateurism. 143 00:06:42,398 --> 00:06:45,731 They play professional athletes even for years and years in the 144 00:06:45,731 --> 00:06:46,731 Olympics. 145 00:06:46,731 --> 00:06:48,764 You know I'm not aware of anything, 146 00:06:48,764 --> 00:06:49,764 you know. 147 00:06:49,764 --> 00:06:53,731 The closest model as far as a unionization situation would 148 00:06:53,731 --> 00:06:57,098 obviously be professional sports where they are unionized. 149 00:06:57,098 --> 00:07:01,631 But as far as amateurs being unionized or just amateur sports 150 00:07:01,631 --> 00:07:03,864 in general, I'm not aware of it. 151 00:07:03,864 --> 00:07:04,864 The tax ramifications.. 152 00:07:04,864 --> 00:07:08,164 I mean it's easy to talk about wanting the backing of a union 153 00:07:08,164 --> 00:07:11,631 but when you are a collegiate athlete and now all of a sudden 154 00:07:11,631 --> 00:07:14,564 you become an employee and you think well that's great. 155 00:07:14,564 --> 00:07:15,564 There's the benefits. 156 00:07:15,564 --> 00:07:17,564 We just talked about the pros and the cons. 157 00:07:17,564 --> 00:07:19,564 But one of the cons could be taxes. 158 00:07:19,564 --> 00:07:21,598 You may be owning the money that they are giving you through a 159 00:07:21,598 --> 00:07:22,598 scholarship. 160 00:07:22,598 --> 00:07:24,064 So what about that? 161 00:07:24,064 --> 00:07:26,064 Be careful what you wish for, right? 162 00:07:26,064 --> 00:07:28,564 Yeah, in the case of Northwestern, 163 00:07:28,564 --> 00:07:33,931 their scholarships are valued at upwards of $75000 a year. 164 00:07:33,931 --> 00:07:38,798 And so the tax on that would be substantial. 165 00:07:38,798 --> 00:07:43,898 Currently under the I-R-S rules, a scholarship is not taxable 166 00:07:43,898 --> 00:07:48,231 unless it is a scholarship that is given in an exchange for 167 00:07:48,231 --> 00:07:49,231 services rendered. 168 00:07:49,231 --> 00:07:52,964 And that's the very nature of the N-L-R-B's ruling is that 169 00:07:52,964 --> 00:07:55,864 these student athletes or if their ruling stands. 170 00:07:55,864 --> 00:07:59,098 Employees are playing football in exchange for getting the 171 00:07:59,098 --> 00:08:00,098 scholarship. 172 00:08:00,098 --> 00:08:03,464 And so there could be an argument that would be taxable 173 00:08:03,464 --> 00:08:06,364 because that's a scholarship provided for services rendered. 174 00:08:06,364 --> 00:08:11,431 Now the I-R-S is not going to be bound by what the N-L-R-B says. 175 00:08:11,431 --> 00:08:15,764 But if they agreed with it and wanted to follow that same 176 00:08:15,764 --> 00:08:20,131 logic, then you could see a situation in which it was taxed. 177 00:08:20,131 --> 00:08:23,398 But you can't say for certain at this point. 178 00:08:23,398 --> 00:08:27,198 Will this be the process for any other school? 179 00:08:27,198 --> 00:08:29,264 Right now it's private schools. 180 00:08:29,264 --> 00:08:32,198 And I want you to explain why it would not affect public schools. 181 00:08:32,198 --> 00:08:36,698 But would this be the same process if Stanford wants to go 182 00:08:36,698 --> 00:08:42,131 through with this, Duke wants to go through with this? 183 00:08:42,131 --> 00:08:43,131 Yeah. 184 00:08:43,131 --> 00:08:47,331 So if CAPA, which is the organization that's attempting 185 00:08:47,331 --> 00:08:50,964 to unionize Northwestern wanted to go after Stanford tomorrow, 186 00:08:50,964 --> 00:08:54,764 they would first have to go and show that there is enough 187 00:08:54,764 --> 00:08:58,431 football players who want to be represented by a union. 188 00:08:58,431 --> 00:09:03,231 And you do that by getting card signed saying I wish to 189 00:09:03,231 --> 00:09:06,064 represented for bargaining purposes by this union. 190 00:09:06,064 --> 00:09:10,864 And you have to get 30% of the football players to sign. 191 00:09:10,864 --> 00:09:14,098 So they first have to go do that. 192 00:09:14,098 --> 00:09:18,898 They then take that to the N-L-R-B and say we want an 193 00:09:18,898 --> 00:09:19,898 election. 194 00:09:19,898 --> 00:09:24,131 And in this case, if the N-L-R-B were to uphold the regional 195 00:09:24,131 --> 00:09:26,898 directors ruling, they'd already have that feather in their cap. 196 00:09:26,898 --> 00:09:28,898 They wouldn't have to prove that like the CAPA did in the 197 00:09:28,898 --> 00:09:29,898 Northwestern case. 198 00:09:29,898 --> 00:09:31,898 So and then from there, they'd certify an election and they'd 199 00:09:31,898 --> 00:09:33,898 have to then prove that they have to win that election by 200 00:09:33,898 --> 00:09:35,898 getting over 50% of the scholarship football players to 201 00:09:35,898 --> 00:09:36,964 vote in favor of the union. 202 00:09:36,964 --> 00:09:42,431 So similar process but slightly easier if the N-L-R-B obviously 203 00:09:42,431 --> 00:09:45,498 were to uphold the regional directors willing that they are 204 00:09:45,498 --> 00:09:46,498 employees. 205 00:09:46,498 --> 00:09:47,498 You know as far as.. 206 00:09:47,498 --> 00:09:53,498 So that's the route for private school right now. 207 00:09:57,364 --> 00:10:00,631 In the case of public schools, the law that governs this is the 208 00:10:00,631 --> 00:10:02,131 National Labor Relations Act. 209 00:10:02,131 --> 00:10:07,131 And that's what the law that gives employees the right to 210 00:10:07,131 --> 00:10:08,131 unionize. 211 00:10:08,131 --> 00:10:11,898 That does not apply to the states, 212 00:10:11,898 --> 00:10:12,898 to state government. 213 00:10:12,898 --> 00:10:14,898 So a state school would not. 214 00:10:14,898 --> 00:10:16,898 You would not be able to unionize a state school under 215 00:10:16,898 --> 00:10:18,898 the National Labor Relations Act. 216 00:10:18,898 --> 00:10:22,398 Some states though have their own labor laws that would allow 217 00:10:22,398 --> 00:10:24,398 for unionization under state law. 218 00:10:24,398 --> 00:10:28,631 And that's kind of just going to be a patch work of laws that's 219 00:10:28,631 --> 00:10:30,931 going to vary from state to state. 220 00:10:30,931 --> 00:10:32,264 Does Tennessee allow it? 221 00:10:32,264 --> 00:10:33,631 You know I'm not sure. 222 00:10:33,631 --> 00:10:34,631 I haven't looked at it. 223 00:10:34,631 --> 00:10:35,964 I don't believe they do. 224 00:10:35,964 --> 00:10:38,031 It's going to be less common in your southern states. 225 00:10:38,031 --> 00:10:40,431 So that could obviously affect the University of Memphis, 226 00:10:40,431 --> 00:10:42,498 University of Tennessee if they went down this route. 227 00:10:42,498 --> 00:10:43,798 Vanderbilt's a private school. 228 00:10:43,798 --> 00:10:45,798 Of course they could do what's happening right now at 229 00:10:45,798 --> 00:10:46,798 Northwestern. 230 00:10:46,798 --> 00:10:48,798 I want to show everyone a graphic right now. 231 00:10:48,798 --> 00:10:54,131 This kind of goes back to March 26th after the N-L-R-B decision, 232 00:10:54,131 --> 00:10:55,598 the original decision. 233 00:10:55,598 --> 00:10:56,598 This comes from U.S. 234 00:10:56,598 --> 00:10:59,298 Senator Lamar Alexander, the senior Republican and on the 235 00:10:59,298 --> 00:11:02,698 Senate Health Education labor Intentions Committee. 236 00:11:02,698 --> 00:11:08,698 Quote -- I'm sure you've seen this quote. 237 00:11:22,964 --> 00:11:24,231 Your comments? 238 00:11:24,231 --> 00:11:26,231 Well you know I think that's your.. 239 00:11:26,231 --> 00:11:29,064 We don't now how it's going to turn out. 240 00:11:29,064 --> 00:11:32,964 But that's your worst case scenario that the kind of labor 241 00:11:32,964 --> 00:11:37,198 strike that you often get and the tension that you get in 242 00:11:37,198 --> 00:11:40,898 labor relations would follow in to college football or college 243 00:11:40,898 --> 00:11:42,031 basketball. 244 00:11:42,031 --> 00:11:46,098 You know, strikes, tense negotiation sessions. 245 00:11:46,098 --> 00:11:48,864 You know, those type of situations. 246 00:11:48,864 --> 00:11:52,864 You know it would be naive to think that it couldn't happen. 247 00:11:52,864 --> 00:11:57,164 On the other hand, you know, anytime you've moved from 248 00:11:57,164 --> 00:11:59,998 amateurism to professionalism or you've, 249 00:11:59,998 --> 00:12:04,331 for instance, people thought that it might be the demise of 250 00:12:04,331 --> 00:12:06,764 the Olympics when we start allowing professionals in to the 251 00:12:06,764 --> 00:12:07,764 Olympics. 252 00:12:07,764 --> 00:12:12,364 And when free agency has been introduced in to certain 253 00:12:12,364 --> 00:12:13,398 professional sports. 254 00:12:13,398 --> 00:12:16,398 There was certainly dooms day scenarios put out there. 255 00:12:16,398 --> 00:12:17,631 So nobody knows. 256 00:12:17,631 --> 00:12:24,198 But I do think that the potential for labor disputes 257 00:12:24,198 --> 00:12:27,898 that could fundamentally change the game and fundamentally 258 00:12:27,898 --> 00:12:31,664 change the relationship between player and coach and player and 259 00:12:31,664 --> 00:12:33,498 university is very real. 260 00:12:33,498 --> 00:12:37,864 I don't think it's unrealistic to think that that worse case 261 00:12:37,864 --> 00:12:39,864 scenario that he describes could occur. 262 00:12:39,864 --> 00:12:41,864 At Northwestern, we're talking football. 263 00:12:41,864 --> 00:12:44,798 Senator Alexander just mentioned basketball. 264 00:12:44,798 --> 00:12:50,064 Are we talking about only sports that are revenue making sports 265 00:12:50,064 --> 00:12:53,364 or can a softball try to unionize? 266 00:12:53,364 --> 00:12:55,664 Can a badminton team try to unionize? 267 00:12:55,664 --> 00:12:56,931 How far does it go? 268 00:12:56,931 --> 00:13:02,631 Well the way that the regional director in Chicago that wrote 269 00:13:02,631 --> 00:13:06,731 on the Northwestern case, the way his opinion read, 270 00:13:06,731 --> 00:13:11,798 I don't think it would preclude a non-revenue sport from 271 00:13:14,731 --> 00:13:15,731 unionizing. 272 00:13:15,731 --> 00:13:19,764 As long as they were receiving, you know, 273 00:13:19,764 --> 00:13:22,764 value for their services, you know, 274 00:13:22,764 --> 00:13:26,164 the argument that they are employees could apply. 275 00:13:26,164 --> 00:13:31,598 But that particular ruling related solely to the football 276 00:13:31,598 --> 00:13:33,131 players at Northwestern. 277 00:13:33,131 --> 00:13:38,831 So if somebody tried to unionize a non-revenue sport, 278 00:13:38,831 --> 00:13:40,831 they would have to, you know, they would likely have to go 279 00:13:40,831 --> 00:13:43,731 through that kind of hearing again to determine whether that 280 00:13:43,731 --> 00:13:46,264 particular sport is an appropriate, 281 00:13:46,264 --> 00:13:48,898 whether those players on that particular team at that 282 00:13:48,898 --> 00:13:50,898 particular school are employees. 283 00:13:50,898 --> 00:13:53,231 And the fact that they are losing money, 284 00:13:53,231 --> 00:13:56,698 that it's not a commercial enterprise would be a factor 285 00:13:56,698 --> 00:14:00,164 that's, you know, would be in the university's favor that 286 00:14:00,164 --> 00:14:03,631 wasn't in the university's favor in the Northwestern case because 287 00:14:03,631 --> 00:14:06,731 football, they make a lot of money off football. 288 00:14:06,731 --> 00:14:10,198 We have this interesting deal going on with the possible 289 00:14:10,198 --> 00:14:13,331 unionization of football players at Northwestern and who knows 290 00:14:13,331 --> 00:14:16,031 what other schools want to follow suit. 291 00:14:16,031 --> 00:14:18,564 We have an even bigger issue that's affecting collegiate 292 00:14:18,564 --> 00:14:21,231 athletics and that is the O'Bannon in class action 293 00:14:21,231 --> 00:14:23,364 anti-trust lawsuit, For those who don't know, 294 00:14:23,364 --> 00:14:27,464 it's expected to go to court soon. 295 00:14:27,464 --> 00:14:29,531 But as you told me before we started taping, 296 00:14:29,531 --> 00:14:31,198 there may be delays. 297 00:14:31,198 --> 00:14:36,731 Basically, O'Bannon and the athletes he's representing are 298 00:14:36,731 --> 00:14:40,298 suing for the use of the name, the likeness, 299 00:14:40,298 --> 00:14:46,898 the image and trying to be rewarded monetarily. 300 00:14:46,898 --> 00:14:48,898 What does this do for collegiate athletics? 301 00:14:48,898 --> 00:14:51,564 Does it completely slam open Pandora's box? 302 00:14:51,564 --> 00:14:55,531 Yeah, I think the Ed O'Bannon case and there's a similar case 303 00:14:55,531 --> 00:14:59,864 that's just recently been filed in New Jersey that are really 304 00:14:59,864 --> 00:15:02,231 attacking the heart of the N-C-A-A model, 305 00:15:02,231 --> 00:15:06,864 the amateur model where athletes are not allowed to receive money 306 00:15:06,864 --> 00:15:08,664 in exchange for their services. 307 00:15:08,664 --> 00:15:13,098 And these lawsuits, these anti-trust lawsuits are really 308 00:15:13,098 --> 00:15:18,498 attacking that model at its heart and trying to get 309 00:15:18,498 --> 00:15:23,598 compensation for athletes who are certainly the work horses in 310 00:15:23,598 --> 00:15:24,598 the business. 311 00:15:24,598 --> 00:15:28,231 That's gonna change things a great deal and I think a lot 312 00:15:28,231 --> 00:15:34,898 more than what the Northwestern case could potentially change. 313 00:15:34,898 --> 00:15:40,431 So you know there it would really change the revenue model. 314 00:15:40,431 --> 00:15:44,764 It would go at the type of money that they can get from jerseys. 315 00:15:44,764 --> 00:15:48,764 There's already been a settlement with the plaintiffs 316 00:15:48,764 --> 00:15:51,598 in the video game companies are using their likeness. 317 00:15:51,598 --> 00:15:53,298 It could impact. 318 00:15:53,298 --> 00:15:56,398 It could cause them to have to share T-V revenues, 319 00:15:56,398 --> 00:15:59,198 which is the real cash cow for the N-C-A-A. 320 00:15:59,198 --> 00:16:00,198 Billions of dollars. 321 00:16:00,198 --> 00:16:01,431 Yes, exactly. 322 00:16:01,431 --> 00:16:04,364 And so you know now you're talking about somebody else is 323 00:16:04,364 --> 00:16:08,431 getting a piece of that pie, which could affect, 324 00:16:08,431 --> 00:16:12,331 you know, universities ability to pay coaches the way they're 325 00:16:12,331 --> 00:16:16,798 currently paying them, to build these new nice facilities a lot 326 00:16:16,798 --> 00:16:18,798 of the universities are building. 327 00:16:18,798 --> 00:16:21,531 Then you've got title nine implications where if you 328 00:16:21,531 --> 00:16:24,298 provide certain money to the male athletes, 329 00:16:24,298 --> 00:16:26,298 you have to provide it on an equal basis to the female 330 00:16:26,298 --> 00:16:28,298 athletes and the non-revenue sports including. 331 00:16:28,298 --> 00:16:32,098 So it's going to require a real shift in budgeting and what 332 00:16:32,098 --> 00:16:36,698 they're going to be able to do as a university and an 333 00:16:36,698 --> 00:16:37,698 institution. 334 00:16:37,698 --> 00:16:39,064 Let me ask you this. 335 00:16:39,064 --> 00:16:40,064 Quick answer. 336 00:16:40,064 --> 00:16:45,064 Do you think O'Bannon wins this case or do you think they settle 337 00:16:45,064 --> 00:16:46,064 or he loses? 338 00:16:46,064 --> 00:16:49,864 From everything I hear, settlement is not likely. 339 00:16:49,864 --> 00:16:51,731 I think there are some. 340 00:16:51,731 --> 00:16:56,298 There's been some A-Ds who have come out and would like a 341 00:16:56,298 --> 00:16:57,298 settlement. 342 00:16:57,298 --> 00:17:00,431 But the N-C-A-A seems to have dug in its heel. 343 00:17:00,431 --> 00:17:02,698 So I don't think that's likely. 344 00:17:02,698 --> 00:17:04,231 Because how do you? 345 00:17:04,231 --> 00:17:08,764 How do you give even an inch there without opening up the 346 00:17:08,764 --> 00:17:12,564 whole model, without changing the whole amateur basis of the 347 00:17:12,564 --> 00:17:13,564 model? 348 00:17:13,564 --> 00:17:16,998 So it's going to be tough to reach a settlement. 349 00:17:16,998 --> 00:17:18,998 Now you know as to who wins, it's a tough call. 350 00:17:18,998 --> 00:17:23,264 There have been several lawsuits throughout time where the 351 00:17:23,264 --> 00:17:27,831 N-C-A-A has been sued on anti-trust grounds that have 352 00:17:27,831 --> 00:17:29,298 challenged the amateur model. 353 00:17:29,298 --> 00:17:32,564 And to this point, the N-C-A-A has prevailed on those on the 354 00:17:32,564 --> 00:17:36,198 grounds that this isn't a commercial enterprise and that 355 00:17:36,198 --> 00:17:41,931 the amateurs in that particular model is the benefit to the 356 00:17:41,931 --> 00:17:44,531 system and to competition. 357 00:17:44,531 --> 00:17:48,364 So the N-C-A-A at this point has got some history on their side. 358 00:17:48,364 --> 00:17:49,731 But it'd be interesting to see. 359 00:17:49,731 --> 00:17:52,098 They have history but they also are worried. 360 00:17:52,098 --> 00:17:53,098 There's no question. 361 00:17:53,098 --> 00:17:56,064 And now the N-C-A-A board of directors recently met. 362 00:17:56,064 --> 00:17:57,164 There's going to be changes. 363 00:17:57,164 --> 00:17:58,164 There's no question. 364 00:17:58,164 --> 00:18:01,664 In fact, there could be changes to the full cost of attendance 365 00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:02,664 scholarships. 366 00:18:02,664 --> 00:18:05,764 There could be changes to continuing education and medical 367 00:18:05,764 --> 00:18:09,098 care for down the road for collegiate athletics, 368 00:18:09,098 --> 00:18:12,764 insurance, all types of things that will be decided on in the 369 00:18:12,764 --> 00:18:13,764 not too distant future. 370 00:18:13,764 --> 00:18:16,264 Big five conferences -- the big five. 371 00:18:16,264 --> 00:18:19,131 We mean Pac 12, Big 10, etcetera. 372 00:18:19,131 --> 00:18:21,598 They would have the ability to enact rules and other Division I 373 00:18:21,598 --> 00:18:24,031 schools from other conferences, for example Memphis in the 374 00:18:24,031 --> 00:18:29,198 American, they could follow suit if they decide to do so. 375 00:18:29,198 --> 00:18:32,498 But again, a lot of rule and acting by the Big Five. 376 00:18:32,498 --> 00:18:35,064 So a lot of power that the N-C-A-A's giving up. 377 00:18:35,064 --> 00:18:38,564 There has to be something major, change to the N-C-A-A for them 378 00:18:38,564 --> 00:18:39,898 to survive. 379 00:18:39,898 --> 00:18:40,898 Do you think they will? 380 00:18:40,898 --> 00:18:43,698 Do you think the N-C-A-A will ultimately be around and still 381 00:18:43,698 --> 00:18:47,998 be the so-called governing body of the collegiate athletics 50 382 00:18:47,998 --> 00:18:48,998 years from now? 383 00:18:48,998 --> 00:18:54,264 You know the question of what the N-C-A-A is doing right now 384 00:18:54,264 --> 00:18:57,631 is too little too late to save themselves. 385 00:18:57,631 --> 00:19:00,231 And there was a time where I think people thought that's 386 00:19:00,231 --> 00:19:01,531 striking a fair balance. 387 00:19:01,531 --> 00:19:05,731 A kid gets a scholarship and gets to play football. 388 00:19:05,731 --> 00:19:07,731 And you know that's fair grounds. 389 00:19:07,731 --> 00:19:10,964 And now as you said billions of dollars are going through the 390 00:19:10,964 --> 00:19:13,198 universities and millions are going to the coaches, 391 00:19:13,198 --> 00:19:17,164 people are starting to wonder is that balance still fair. 392 00:19:17,164 --> 00:19:20,764 Is that scenario still one that we thinks a fair one? 393 00:19:20,764 --> 00:19:24,464 So the N-C-A-A is going to have to give I think to give back 394 00:19:24,464 --> 00:19:26,698 that public perception and keep that balance. 395 00:19:26,698 --> 00:19:29,164 Now they're always going to need somebody to administer 396 00:19:29,164 --> 00:19:32,064 tournaments, administer bowl games. 397 00:19:32,064 --> 00:19:34,731 And there's always going to be rules in place and somebody's 398 00:19:34,731 --> 00:19:36,731 going to have to enforce those rules. 399 00:19:36,731 --> 00:19:38,731 So the N-C-A-A I think will be there. 400 00:19:38,731 --> 00:19:41,931 It's just a question of whether this will be an amateur model in 401 00:19:41,931 --> 00:19:42,931 the future. 402 00:19:42,931 --> 00:19:46,164 So many subjects, so many topics out there that we're just 403 00:19:46,164 --> 00:19:47,431 scratching the surface with. 404 00:19:47,431 --> 00:19:50,764 But needless to say, there's going to be a lot of changes in 405 00:19:50,764 --> 00:19:53,998 what we know as we've known for years what intercollegiate 406 00:19:53,998 --> 00:19:56,598 sports is about, what amateurism is about. 407 00:19:56,598 --> 00:19:58,264 it's all changing. 408 00:19:58,264 --> 00:20:00,264 And David, we appreciate your time. 409 00:20:00,264 --> 00:20:02,664 We appreciate your expertise just touching on some of these 410 00:20:02,664 --> 00:20:03,664 subjects for us. 411 00:20:03,664 --> 00:20:05,664 Well I appreciate you having me. 412 00:20:05,664 --> 00:20:06,664 I've enjoyed it. 413 00:20:06,664 --> 00:20:07,664 Thank you so much. 414 00:20:07,664 --> 00:20:08,664 That's David Prather. 415 00:20:08,664 --> 00:20:09,664 We'll take a break. 416 00:20:09,664 --> 00:20:12,831 Overtime is next. 417 00:20:15,998 --> 00:20:17,164 [theme music] 418 00:20:17,164 --> 00:20:18,598 Three.. 419 00:20:18,598 --> 00:20:19,198 Two.. 420 00:20:19,198 --> 00:20:21,198 One.. 421 00:20:23,998 --> 00:20:25,831 [buzzer sounds] 422 00:20:25,831 --> 00:20:29,164 In 2000, Michael Heisley purchased the Vancouver 423 00:20:29,164 --> 00:20:32,431 Grizzlies and with the hard work and dedication of the N-B-A 424 00:20:32,431 --> 00:20:34,431 pursuit team in Memphis, Heisley, 425 00:20:34,431 --> 00:20:37,664 a Chicago Billionaire, relocated his team to the bluff city. 426 00:20:37,664 --> 00:20:39,964 The rest, as they say, is history. 427 00:20:39,964 --> 00:20:43,264 Heisley would control majority ownership in the team until his 428 00:20:43,264 --> 00:20:46,198 sale of the organization two years ago to a group headed by 429 00:20:46,198 --> 00:20:50,198 Silicon Valley tech guru and wireless engineer Robert Pera. 430 00:20:50,198 --> 00:20:52,998 Last Saturday, news spread like wirefire that Heisley had passed 431 00:20:52,998 --> 00:20:55,098 away at the age of 77. 432 00:20:55,098 --> 00:20:58,831 The colorful, boisterous giant of a man died of complications 433 00:20:58,831 --> 00:21:02,298 from a massive stroke suffered nearly 15 months ago. 434 00:21:02,298 --> 00:21:04,431 I was able to have Michael Heisley on my radio show on 435 00:21:04,431 --> 00:21:07,764 Sports 56 several times and he never disappointed. 436 00:21:07,764 --> 00:21:10,698 He shot from the hip and wasn't afraid to step on toes. 437 00:21:10,698 --> 00:21:13,398 But he was fair and most importantly honest. 438 00:21:13,398 --> 00:21:15,698 Heisley also made an appearance with Geoff Caulkins here on 439 00:21:15,698 --> 00:21:17,698 "Sports Files" several years ago, 440 00:21:17,698 --> 00:21:20,364 and when he spoke to the media he always made sure to talk 441 00:21:20,364 --> 00:21:22,531 about the importance of the team having an impact on the 442 00:21:22,531 --> 00:21:23,531 community. 443 00:21:23,531 --> 00:21:25,598 And I would say he accomplished that goal, 444 00:21:25,598 --> 00:21:28,431 as just last year the Grizzlies were named the top franchise in 445 00:21:28,431 --> 00:21:30,664 professional sports. 446 00:21:30,664 --> 00:21:32,664 So here's a look back at Michael Heisley, 447 00:21:32,664 --> 00:21:35,731 the man who brought big time professional sports to Memphis. 448 00:21:38,031 --> 00:21:40,431 I think that we've made a difference in Memphis. 449 00:21:40,431 --> 00:21:44,731 I think that's open to a lot of discussion by different people. 450 00:21:44,731 --> 00:21:49,398 But from my point of view, I think that we have made an 451 00:21:49,398 --> 00:21:50,864 impact on the city. 452 00:21:50,864 --> 00:21:54,564 That was our number one, at least my number one priority. 453 00:21:54,564 --> 00:21:56,564 I think if people went back and read, 454 00:21:56,564 --> 00:21:58,564 that's what we said we wanted to do. 455 00:21:58,564 --> 00:22:00,564 We didn't just want to be a basketball team. 456 00:22:00,564 --> 00:22:03,631 We wanted to be somebody that basically left an imprint on the 457 00:22:03,631 --> 00:22:04,631 city. 458 00:22:04,631 --> 00:22:05,798 And I think we have done that. 459 00:22:05,798 --> 00:22:08,598 Would I have liked to have more success as a basketball team? 460 00:22:08,598 --> 00:22:09,598 Obviously. 461 00:22:09,598 --> 00:22:14,964 All my life I've been an extremely competitive person or 462 00:22:14,964 --> 00:22:18,764 I wouldn't have been as successful. 463 00:22:18,764 --> 00:22:22,731 When you lose, you know it is extremely painful. 464 00:22:22,731 --> 00:22:26,064 When you lose in front of thousands of people that are as 465 00:22:26,064 --> 00:22:29,464 nice as they are and thank you and everything else, 466 00:22:29,464 --> 00:22:31,398 it makes it even more hurtful. 467 00:22:31,398 --> 00:22:35,064 So you know that's been very difficult for me to get. 468 00:22:35,064 --> 00:22:38,931 I would have liked to been more successful with the team than 469 00:22:38,931 --> 00:22:39,931 we've been. 470 00:22:39,931 --> 00:22:45,331 My intentions, I think, have been focused on basically trying 471 00:22:45,331 --> 00:22:49,731 to do the best job to make the Grizzlies part of the fabric of 472 00:22:49,731 --> 00:22:50,731 Memphis. 473 00:22:50,731 --> 00:22:53,298 And quite honestly, in some regards we; 474 00:22:53,298 --> 00:22:56,064 ve done a pretty decent job. 475 00:22:56,064 --> 00:22:59,731 In other areas, you know its work unfinished. 476 00:22:59,731 --> 00:23:02,931 And I think we can get there. 477 00:23:02,931 --> 00:23:09,098 But that is so much harder than I ever perceived it would be. 478 00:23:09,098 --> 00:23:11,464 I am a very upfront person. 479 00:23:11,464 --> 00:23:14,798 And sometimes people don't like what I have to say. 480 00:23:14,798 --> 00:23:20,731 But I guess if I had to be a certain type of person, 481 00:23:20,731 --> 00:23:24,231 I would want to be a person that told people exactly what's on my 482 00:23:24,231 --> 00:23:25,231 mind. 483 00:23:25,231 --> 00:23:27,698 And that's why generally speaking, 484 00:23:27,698 --> 00:23:29,698 if you go back and look at the record, 485 00:23:29,698 --> 00:23:31,964 you'll find very few times I've said, 486 00:23:31,964 --> 00:23:34,331 given a statement, and then turned out and did something 487 00:23:34,331 --> 00:23:35,331 else. 488 00:23:35,331 --> 00:23:37,531 You know I've been extremely fortunate. 489 00:23:37,531 --> 00:23:39,331 I started very poor. 490 00:23:39,331 --> 00:23:42,198 And I've made a substantial amount of money. 491 00:23:42,198 --> 00:23:46,664 And I firmly believe that money corrupts. 492 00:23:46,664 --> 00:23:49,164 And I think that if you don't give back, 493 00:23:49,164 --> 00:23:50,298 it will corrupt you. 494 00:23:50,298 --> 00:23:53,231 And worse, it will corrupt your children and your family. 495 00:23:53,231 --> 00:23:58,598 And so it has been a very strong purpose in my family that we 496 00:23:58,598 --> 00:24:00,198 would try to give back. 497 00:24:00,198 --> 00:24:03,164 And I got this idea that owning a sports team. 498 00:24:03,164 --> 00:24:05,164 People in this country are so sports nuts, 499 00:24:05,164 --> 00:24:09,831 that owning a sports team, you could get people to support your 500 00:24:09,831 --> 00:24:11,431 charities and so on like that. 501 00:24:11,431 --> 00:24:13,431 And you could have even a bigger impact. 502 00:24:13,431 --> 00:24:19,031 And so we looked at a couple of things before we ended up with 503 00:24:19,031 --> 00:24:20,531 the Grizzlies. 504 00:24:20,531 --> 00:24:26,531 And quite frankly, I'm satisfied that we have made a difference 505 00:24:28,731 --> 00:24:30,364 in Memphis. 506 00:24:30,364 --> 00:24:32,664 I'm sure people would like to think I should have made a 507 00:24:32,664 --> 00:24:33,864 bigger difference. 508 00:24:33,864 --> 00:24:38,064 Would I be much more satisfied? 509 00:24:38,064 --> 00:24:40,898 I'm not trying to say I'm satisfied. 510 00:24:40,898 --> 00:24:43,864 Would it be much more satisfied to have been a winner? 511 00:24:43,864 --> 00:24:45,364 I think people want more. 512 00:24:45,364 --> 00:24:48,464 We got to the play-offs. 513 00:24:48,464 --> 00:24:52,664 We were getting ready to move in to the new arena and so on and 514 00:24:52,664 --> 00:24:53,998 so forth. 515 00:24:53,998 --> 00:24:55,564 People had a new team. 516 00:24:55,564 --> 00:24:59,898 Expectations were a lot less than what we had. 517 00:24:59,898 --> 00:25:05,831 We went from 20-some wins with a team that haven't done in 518 00:25:05,831 --> 00:25:08,964 Vancouver anything and we suddenly were at 50. 519 00:25:08,964 --> 00:25:12,631 You know and that was a tremendous move. 520 00:25:12,631 --> 00:25:17,298 And that shows you that what success would do if the 521 00:25:17,298 --> 00:25:21,764 Grizzlies could basically replicate that level of success 522 00:25:21,764 --> 00:25:23,031 but it would have to be more. 523 00:25:23,031 --> 00:25:25,831 To get to that, we would not only have to get to the 524 00:25:25,831 --> 00:25:28,598 play-offs, we would have to win games in the play-offs. 525 00:25:34,231 --> 00:25:36,464 And of course we send our condolences to Michael's wife 526 00:25:36,464 --> 00:25:40,431 Agnes, his five children, and the entire Heisley family. 527 00:25:40,431 --> 00:25:42,431 And that will do it for this week's show. 528 00:25:42,431 --> 00:25:46,431 We'll see you next time. 529 00:26:05,098 --> 00:26:07,964 (female announcer) Production funding for "Sports Files" is 530 00:26:07,964 --> 00:26:10,198 made possible in part by.. 531 00:26:10,198 --> 00:26:12,631 (male announcer) Infiniti of Memphis has moved to Germantown 532 00:26:12,631 --> 00:26:15,598 road just half a mile north of Wolfchase Galleria and is proud 533 00:26:15,598 --> 00:26:18,798 to support W-K-N-O for its quality broadcasting and service 534 00:26:18,798 --> 00:26:19,998 to our community. 535 00:26:19,998 --> 00:26:22,298 Quality and service -- No wonder Infiniti of Memphis feels at 536 00:26:22,298 --> 00:26:24,298 home on W-K-N-O.