1 00:00:01,466 --> 00:00:04,533 By the River is brought to you in part by 2 00:00:04,633 --> 00:00:06,800 the University of South Carolina Beaufort 3 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:09,566 learning in action, discovered. 4 00:00:10,733 --> 00:00:12,000 Community Foundation of the Low Country 5 00:00:12,100 --> 00:00:13,666 strengthening community 6 00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:21,166 Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB. 7 00:00:21,266 --> 00:00:23,133 The Pat Conroy Literary Center 8 00:00:25,733 --> 00:00:27,166 Artistic Flower Shop. 9 00:00:31,466 --> 00:00:34,233 Born in Las Vegas, Nevada and educated at the 10 00:00:34,333 --> 00:00:37,100 University of South Carolina in Journalism 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,300 Marcus Amaker comes from a family of poets 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,900 who invest in their communities. 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,000 As Charleston's first poet laureate, Gaillard 14 00:00:46,100 --> 00:00:49,033 Center's Artist in Residence, and winner of 15 00:00:49,133 --> 00:00:51,966 the South Carolina Humanities Fresh Voice, 16 00:00:52,066 --> 00:00:55,166 Marcus explored creative freedom in his newest collection 17 00:00:55,266 --> 00:00:57,900 of poems, 'The Birth of All Things.' 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,000 I'm Holly Jackson, join us as we bring you powerful 19 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:03,633 stories from both new and established Southern 20 00:01:03,733 --> 00:01:06,600 authors, as we sit By The River. 21 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:45,366 ♪ 22 00:01:45,466 --> 00:01:47,800 Hi, I'm Holly Jackson, thank you so much for 23 00:01:47,900 --> 00:01:50,333 joining us here on By The River. This is season 24 00:01:50,433 --> 00:01:53,633 here in our Beaufort waterfront studio. 25 00:01:53,733 --> 00:01:56,833 We're so glad to have you back. Let's get right into it. 26 00:01:56,933 --> 00:01:58,666 Marcus Amaker from Charleston, thank you so 27 00:01:58,766 --> 00:02:01,533 much for coming and driving over here to Beaufort 28 00:02:01,633 --> 00:02:04,433 to see us. Yeah. We're excited. You have a lot going on 29 00:02:04,533 --> 00:02:06,700 because you have this new book and also you have that 30 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,566 sort of new baby. So tell us a little bit about 31 00:02:09,666 --> 00:02:12,066 first of all this book and how it stands out 32 00:02:12,166 --> 00:02:15,100 among the rest. Yes, so this is my eighth 33 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,166 book. And it started out as an album actually. 34 00:02:19,266 --> 00:02:23,400 The title and the concept of it came to me when I 35 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:27,000 first heard my daughter's heart beat. So, we went to 36 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:30,033 the ultrasound and I heard the heartbeat. 37 00:02:30,133 --> 00:02:34,866 And I sampled it and made some music around it. And when 38 00:02:34,966 --> 00:02:37,533 I first heard the heartbeat, all of these 39 00:02:37,633 --> 00:02:41,533 emotions, all these things came up for me. 40 00:02:41,633 --> 00:02:45,866 Obviously joy, and all types of 41 00:02:45,966 --> 00:02:48,833 realizations of what it means to be a dad and 42 00:02:48,933 --> 00:02:53,000 what it could mean to be a dad and 43 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:55,966 raise somebody in this whole society that we're in 44 00:02:56,066 --> 00:02:59,633 and that's sort of swirling with chaos. But also 45 00:02:59,733 --> 00:03:03,600 there's a lot of anxiety that came up too. 46 00:03:03,700 --> 00:03:06,700 So, the title came to me during that when I was 47 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,033 making music for The Birth of All Things and 48 00:03:10,133 --> 00:03:13,000 then when I started to write about it, I started 49 00:03:13,100 --> 00:03:16,966 to develop a concept that I wanted to write a lot 50 00:03:17,066 --> 00:03:21,066 of "dad" poems just all those emotions. 51 00:03:21,166 --> 00:03:23,133 But then I started to really expand 52 00:03:23,233 --> 00:03:25,933 into some other subjects that 53 00:03:26,033 --> 00:03:28,433 I've been writing about whether, it be social 54 00:03:28,533 --> 00:03:31,400 justice, but also some other 55 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:33,266 things that I haven't written about in a while. 56 00:03:33,366 --> 00:03:36,800 So, music and my favorite musicians, 57 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:41,000 some experimental poetry style, things like that. 58 00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:43,933 So, it really The Birth of All Things, really is 59 00:03:44,033 --> 00:03:48,333 about all things, putting all of my styles into one book. 60 00:03:48,433 --> 00:03:51,100 But growing from that heart beat 61 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,133 you know everything started there. 62 00:03:54,233 --> 00:03:58,866 Let's back way up to the birth of Marcus Amaker, 63 00:03:58,966 --> 00:04:02,166 as a writer. When did that all begin? As a writer 64 00:04:02,266 --> 00:04:06,400 that started when I was probably like negative 65 00:04:06,500 --> 00:04:08,400 twenty years old. I think it was just part 66 00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:11,466 of my - part of my fiber. But I really 67 00:04:11,566 --> 00:04:14,400 started to write when I was around ten years old. 68 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:18,433 That was when I had an awareness of music. 69 00:04:18,533 --> 00:04:22,066 Really, deeply listening to music not just having 70 00:04:22,166 --> 00:04:23,866 it in the background. 71 00:04:23,966 --> 00:04:26,300 My parents still have a lot of vinyl 72 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:27,733 and a lot of music around 73 00:04:27,833 --> 00:04:31,200 their house. And I have that as well. And I remember 74 00:04:31,300 --> 00:04:35,033 when I was ten years old seeing Prince records 75 00:04:35,133 --> 00:04:37,266 for the first time and just opening up the gate 76 00:04:37,366 --> 00:04:41,166 fold and seeing all of the lyrics and smelling 77 00:04:41,266 --> 00:04:43,633 the right, the vinyl and listening to 78 00:04:43,733 --> 00:04:46,566 the music. And I wanted to do that. So I started to 79 00:04:46,666 --> 00:04:49,166 write songs and that was around ten years old. 80 00:04:49,266 --> 00:04:50,900 Is this something that runs in the family? 81 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,233 Or are you the first? 82 00:04:52,333 --> 00:04:54,433 No, it definitely runs in the family. 83 00:04:54,533 --> 00:04:57,933 I'm actually related to Norman Amaker 84 00:04:58,033 --> 00:05:02,400 who was a big figure for the Civil Rights 85 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:06,366 Movement. And he wrote a few books as well. 86 00:05:06,466 --> 00:05:09,833 It's funny I found that out later on. So, it's just 87 00:05:09,933 --> 00:05:13,133 this unconscious thread that is with us. 88 00:05:13,233 --> 00:05:17,433 And my dad writes too. Well, I stumbled upon the 89 00:05:17,533 --> 00:05:20,600 The Big Butt. Yeah that was, the first thing that I did. 90 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:22,566 Was it? Yeah. The very first thing I did. 91 00:05:22,666 --> 00:05:25,000 I saw the cassette and that's the actual cassette 92 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:26,166 you wrote on and everything 93 00:05:26,266 --> 00:05:28,266 Yeah. So, I remember doing the same thing, 94 00:05:28,366 --> 00:05:30,600 sitting by with a microphone and I probably 95 00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:33,833 sing Amazing Grace or something over and over, but - 96 00:05:33,933 --> 00:05:36,000 It wasn't Big Butt" for you. It wasn't "Big Butt" 97 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:39,766 but I loved it. I loved it. 98 00:05:39,866 --> 00:05:43,700 And you put it in the top. Yeah. At the beginning of this 99 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,700 book, I list all of my works. 100 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,100 So, yeah, I think to honor that kid, you know, I 101 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,766 have to keep talking about that because there 102 00:05:52,866 --> 00:05:56,066 are so many people now 103 00:05:56,166 --> 00:05:59,333 whatever age there that are 104 00:05:59,433 --> 00:06:02,066 you know, creating music and stuff. And there's 105 00:06:02,166 --> 00:06:05,433 more tools now to do that stuff, than there was when I 106 00:06:05,533 --> 00:06:08,000 was younger, so. So, let's talk about that one 107 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:10,966 specifically. I mean I can already tell. I'm sure 108 00:06:11,066 --> 00:06:13,600 everybody who hears it, you know there's a gift 109 00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:15,366 whenever, you hear that reading. 110 00:06:15,466 --> 00:06:17,433 Really, I mean of course it's a funny subject 111 00:06:17,533 --> 00:06:20,133 but at what point did maybe 112 00:06:20,233 --> 00:06:22,200 mom or dad pick up on maybe we've got 113 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:26,733 something going here. We need to, Wow! I think that they 114 00:06:26,833 --> 00:06:31,033 just kind of naturally knew and they always encouraged it. 115 00:06:31,133 --> 00:06:35,566 I think back to how I was making - and I still make a 116 00:06:35,666 --> 00:06:37,800 lot of music, but definitely when I was 117 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:40,466 younger, it was almost every like week or 118 00:06:40,566 --> 00:06:43,433 something, I had a new song. And you know and I'm 119 00:06:43,533 --> 00:06:46,366 ten, eleven years old and I remember playing it for 120 00:06:46,466 --> 00:06:49,100 my parents. And they aren't the best songs in the 121 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,933 world but they are always encouraging and 122 00:06:52,033 --> 00:06:54,233 and never really told me, "maybe you should" 123 00:06:54,333 --> 00:06:57,033 "do something else or whatever." I was always 124 00:06:57,133 --> 00:07:00,066 creating and they bought a keyboard for me, 125 00:07:00,166 --> 00:07:02,266 that I still have and my daughter's playing it. 126 00:07:02,366 --> 00:07:04,266 She's eight - I know you love that. 127 00:07:04,366 --> 00:07:05,366 Yeah. It's really cool. 128 00:07:05,466 --> 00:07:07,800 She's eight months old, just kind of bangs on it 129 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:10,400 but it's cool, I was always 130 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:12,633 encouraged to create and there was always 131 00:07:12,733 --> 00:07:15,933 something in the house that could create with. 132 00:07:16,033 --> 00:07:18,666 Oftentimes when I speak with authors, they 133 00:07:18,766 --> 00:07:21,333 talk about this kind of circle of friends, but then 134 00:07:21,433 --> 00:07:24,333 that author community that they kind of lean on to 135 00:07:24,433 --> 00:07:26,966 be a critic of their writing and that sort of thing. 136 00:07:27,066 --> 00:07:29,733 Do you have that as a poet, as well? 137 00:07:29,833 --> 00:07:32,333 It comes in waves. When I first moved to Charleston 138 00:07:32,433 --> 00:07:36,233 in 2003, there was a really 139 00:07:36,333 --> 00:07:40,033 vibrant community for open mic. 140 00:07:40,133 --> 00:07:43,900 So, it was almost every night of the week. So, I hustled 141 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,500 and I just went to all these things. And a lot 142 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,166 of times I would just sit on the back and take 143 00:07:49,266 --> 00:07:53,066 notes and stuff like that. So, there was a lot of 144 00:07:53,166 --> 00:07:56,100 learning from those experiences. And I think 145 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,066 unconsciously I was getting my butt kicked by 146 00:08:00,166 --> 00:08:03,133 a lot of different poets. And it really helped me 147 00:08:03,233 --> 00:08:06,200 you know become a better poet. And then 148 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:09,100 when I started getting on the microphone and 149 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,600 starting to connect with a lot of them, then 150 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:14,633 I really started to make a personal 151 00:08:14,733 --> 00:08:18,266 connections and stuff. I think it's easy now to be 152 00:08:18,366 --> 00:08:22,666 disconnected through social media 153 00:08:22,766 --> 00:08:24,633 and all that, especially now with 154 00:08:24,733 --> 00:08:27,866 the pandemic going on. So, I really miss 155 00:08:27,966 --> 00:08:31,700 those, that sense of community when you're 156 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,266 with a bunch of poets, you can sit and talk. 157 00:08:35,366 --> 00:08:38,933 We used to have bi weekly open mics and writing 158 00:08:39,033 --> 00:08:41,500 sessions and things like that. So, right now, 159 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,866 I'm really missing that. I'm in my own head a lot, 160 00:08:44,966 --> 00:08:48,200 which I'm fine with but it would be nice to 161 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:51,400 go out and get some different experiences, but 162 00:08:51,500 --> 00:08:56,266 yeah I do have some people that I can call on who 163 00:08:56,366 --> 00:08:59,600 are really, really amazing writers and I learn 164 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:03,133 from them a lot. In several interviews that 165 00:09:03,233 --> 00:09:06,766 as I was kind of researching you, I noticed 166 00:09:06,866 --> 00:09:09,633 that several times you mentioned kind of the 167 00:09:09,733 --> 00:09:13,733 dislike of social media and how it can, 168 00:09:13,833 --> 00:09:15,866 what it can do to us, the cell phone and 169 00:09:15,966 --> 00:09:17,533 everything and people walking around looking at 170 00:09:17,633 --> 00:09:20,400 their cell phones and all that sort of thing. 171 00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:22,466 And I appreciate that. However, during this 172 00:09:22,566 --> 00:09:24,566 pandemic, I imagine it's been a real challenge for 173 00:09:24,666 --> 00:09:27,100 you because you had to go to that -Yeah- the whole 174 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,500 time. Tell me about the challenge of that and maybe 175 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,866 kind of what you've learned through it all. 176 00:09:31,966 --> 00:09:35,666 Yeah, I definitely have and have an 177 00:09:35,766 --> 00:09:38,400 addiction to social media. That's why, I talk 178 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:41,800 about it so much. But I think that there's 179 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:45,200 so much good that can come from it. But also 180 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:48,733 I just think it is a sort of this endless loop that 181 00:09:48,833 --> 00:09:52,966 that we're in. I don't know where the ending of 182 00:09:53,066 --> 00:09:56,900 it is. You know. It's just going and going and going. 183 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,266 So, I've had to really limit 184 00:09:59,366 --> 00:10:03,966 myself and my interaction 185 00:10:04,066 --> 00:10:06,933 with people through that mean, because I 186 00:10:07,033 --> 00:10:10,266 see how it affects me. I think it takes me away 187 00:10:10,366 --> 00:10:14,733 from sort of my higher self. 188 00:10:14,833 --> 00:10:18,800 So, when I'm in the middle of writing something or 189 00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:21,966 listening to music, I want to be. I want to have a 190 00:10:22,066 --> 00:10:26,200 clear mind. And that to me it doesn't, that isn't 191 00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:30,100 isn't this for everyone. But to me it 192 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,366 clouds my mind. You know, so 193 00:10:34,466 --> 00:10:37,666 it's important for me to just be mindful of how 194 00:10:37,766 --> 00:10:40,566 much I'm using it. Have you been writing 195 00:10:40,666 --> 00:10:46,666 about the pandemic much? Well, I'm not sure much 196 00:10:46,766 --> 00:10:49,633 but I've written a few poems about it. 197 00:10:49,733 --> 00:10:52,166 I journal about it. That definitely, because I 198 00:10:52,266 --> 00:10:56,400 think that this time in our history is really 199 00:10:56,500 --> 00:10:58,700 important, you know. This is the type of stuff and 200 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,400 they're going to be talking about hundreds 201 00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:03,033 and hundreds of years from now. So, I think 202 00:11:03,133 --> 00:11:06,400 it's important to have a document of this time. 203 00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:10,733 Also to work through my feelings through it. I think 204 00:11:10,833 --> 00:11:15,233 a lot of people are feeling scared. 205 00:11:15,333 --> 00:11:17,733 A lot of people are really sad during 206 00:11:17,833 --> 00:11:20,266 this time as well. So, anytime those emotions 207 00:11:20,366 --> 00:11:23,200 come up for me, I write about it 208 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:26,800 in journal form. I'm also going to create some 209 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:29,600 more music around just the feeling of 210 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:31,933 what's going on right now. There definitely are 211 00:11:32,033 --> 00:11:36,466 times when I've had like panic attacks and stuff 212 00:11:36,566 --> 00:11:39,900 that happened recently. They took my daughter out 213 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,333 and they were just a bunch of people around 214 00:11:42,433 --> 00:11:44,633 and nobody was distancing. There weren't a lot of 215 00:11:44,733 --> 00:11:48,300 masks on. And it just, it kind of scared me. 216 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,100 So those things the way that I've always handled 217 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,033 my emotions is to write them down. It doesn't 218 00:11:55,133 --> 00:11:58,000 necessarily always transform into a poem, 219 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:01,400 but it can just be a journal entry. 220 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:05,000 Yeah. Through your role in Charleston, tell me about 221 00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:06,900 some of the different events that you've been 222 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,533 able to do, poetry readings and what are maybe the 223 00:12:10,633 --> 00:12:13,366 ones that stand out as the most meaningful to you. 224 00:12:13,466 --> 00:12:14,866 Yeah it's been a blessing 225 00:12:14,966 --> 00:12:18,833 being a Poet Laureate of Charleston, the first one. 226 00:12:18,933 --> 00:12:23,233 I've been asked to write poems about specific events. 227 00:12:23,333 --> 00:12:25,533 I've also been asked to 228 00:12:25,633 --> 00:12:29,100 be in schools, which I have been doing a lot, but 229 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,433 it carries a lot more weight when I'm in the 230 00:12:31,533 --> 00:12:34,833 school now, in the classrooms. It's like, "Oh my God! You're" 231 00:12:34,933 --> 00:12:37,100 "the Poet Laureate." At first, they don't 232 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,833 know what that means and I then I tell them what it means. 233 00:12:40,933 --> 00:12:43,400 So those moments carry the most 234 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:46,566 weight for me is being in schools. 235 00:12:46,666 --> 00:12:49,400 I really love that. And that's another thing that I miss 236 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:54,633 about right now as well, being in front of a classroom. 237 00:12:54,733 --> 00:12:57,400 But I've always preached that poetry is 238 00:12:57,500 --> 00:13:00,966 so flexible. It can be put in a lot of different 239 00:13:01,066 --> 00:13:02,966 scenarios and a lot of different ways that 240 00:13:03,066 --> 00:13:07,166 people might not expect. So, I've collaborated with 241 00:13:07,266 --> 00:13:10,566 with Wine and Food Festival. I've collaborated 242 00:13:10,666 --> 00:13:13,833 with City of Charleston to do 243 00:13:13,933 --> 00:13:16,333 my own festival, where actually you 244 00:13:16,433 --> 00:13:19,100 know poetry is not just readings, it's 245 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,933 public art. It's put on walls and windows and 246 00:13:24,033 --> 00:13:28,200 things like that. So, yeah it's been a lot 247 00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:31,066 of fun, yeah. I really dig it because you 248 00:13:31,166 --> 00:13:33,800 know like I said it's just a very flexible art 249 00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:36,733 form so it can be used in a lot of different ways. 250 00:13:36,833 --> 00:13:39,033 Whenever you're giving these I guess assignments, 251 00:13:39,133 --> 00:13:42,233 after certain events, I mean, these often are 252 00:13:42,333 --> 00:13:44,766 tragedies and are very 253 00:13:44,866 --> 00:13:48,166 sensitive topics for this area. How do you work with 254 00:13:48,266 --> 00:13:50,966 that? And do you ever have people to say, "Oh! That's" 255 00:13:51,066 --> 00:13:53,466 "a little too much." Or how would you handle that if 256 00:13:53,566 --> 00:13:55,933 they did? Tell me - Yeah I haven't had 257 00:13:56,033 --> 00:13:59,700 anybody say that, yet because one of the 258 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,300 things that I as a poet, I am an 259 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,100 activist because what I'm doing is 260 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,600 recording you know what's happening in the world 261 00:14:09,700 --> 00:14:13,066 around me. It's just like being a folk singer. 262 00:14:13,166 --> 00:14:17,366 And I've chosen to write non fiction you know? 263 00:14:17,466 --> 00:14:20,166 I'm always gonna write about what's happening. 264 00:14:20,266 --> 00:14:24,100 And I think that people are 265 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,533 challenged when they read some of my work because 266 00:14:27,633 --> 00:14:31,933 I'm not presenting it in a way that they might 267 00:14:32,033 --> 00:14:34,466 expect. You know, I don't really hit people 268 00:14:34,566 --> 00:14:37,633 on the head with the topics. But I talk about 269 00:14:37,733 --> 00:14:39,900 things in a way. It's almost like I talk 270 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,033 about the in between. You know? Like I wrote a poem about 271 00:14:44,133 --> 00:14:46,800 John C. Calhoun statute 272 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:49,466 and one thing that's interesting to me is when 273 00:14:49,566 --> 00:14:52,133 I'm asked to write about that I'm not going to 274 00:14:52,233 --> 00:14:54,800 write about the structure itself. I'm going to write about 275 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:57,566 sort of the weight of how it feels on the 276 00:14:57,666 --> 00:15:01,466 ground or the energy around it, things like that. 277 00:15:01,566 --> 00:15:03,966 So, I think that a lot of the times when 278 00:15:04,066 --> 00:15:06,366 I write about it, it's presented in a way that 279 00:15:06,466 --> 00:15:10,366 people feel it differently. Yeah, so, 280 00:15:10,466 --> 00:15:13,966 people have been very, very open 281 00:15:14,066 --> 00:15:16,433 to the way that I write 282 00:15:16,533 --> 00:15:20,933 about things. It is heavy for some people to 283 00:15:21,033 --> 00:15:25,066 read. But, it's a part of our life, you know. 284 00:15:25,166 --> 00:15:27,700 I think one of the things we have to stop saying 285 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,866 is that these things are difficult. I mean it's we 286 00:15:30,966 --> 00:15:33,600 have to talk about it because it's part of our 287 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:38,566 history. You know, so yeah I find myself 288 00:15:38,666 --> 00:15:42,066 not even choosing to write about a certain 289 00:15:42,166 --> 00:15:45,133 topic, I'm just writing about what's happening 290 00:15:45,233 --> 00:15:48,433 in our society. And it has been happening for a 291 00:15:48,533 --> 00:15:51,966 long time. These are fresh scars. And I think about 292 00:15:52,066 --> 00:15:55,566 the fact that Emancipation Proclamation 293 00:15:55,666 --> 00:15:57,666 was like a hundred and fifty something years ago. 294 00:15:57,766 --> 00:15:59,900 I mean it really was not that long ago. 295 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,100 So, it's important for me to just 296 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,166 write about America. You know? We have a lot of 297 00:16:07,266 --> 00:16:09,900 work to do in this country. 298 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,466 How has fatherhood changed you as a writer? 299 00:16:13,566 --> 00:16:19,733 Yeah fatherhood is amazing. One. It's also tiring. 300 00:16:19,833 --> 00:16:23,400 But it's a joyful experience. 301 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:26,033 As a writer, it's made me be 302 00:16:26,133 --> 00:16:29,733 more aware of the business 303 00:16:29,833 --> 00:16:33,233 side of writing because I want what I'm 304 00:16:33,333 --> 00:16:37,533 doing now to benefit her, years from now. So I, 305 00:16:37,633 --> 00:16:42,133 really tightened up the business aspect of 306 00:16:42,233 --> 00:16:46,100 what I was doing. I write in the same way. 307 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,933 Like my process of that is the same way. 308 00:16:50,033 --> 00:16:54,033 But I realized I needed to be more aware of owning 309 00:16:54,133 --> 00:16:58,600 my work and being able to benefit from my work, 310 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:02,100 so, you know, three thousand years from now, 311 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,433 the business is set up in a way that the 312 00:17:04,533 --> 00:17:07,966 family is going to be benefit from 313 00:17:08,066 --> 00:17:12,133 what I'm doing now. I think prior to Rae coming 314 00:17:12,233 --> 00:17:17,366 into my life, I was more 315 00:17:17,466 --> 00:17:20,533 willing to just sort of like let my 316 00:17:20,633 --> 00:17:23,166 like art out there and just sort of test it 317 00:17:23,266 --> 00:17:25,033 out and everything. But, no. I think it's 318 00:17:25,133 --> 00:17:27,966 important to let things out there but also have 319 00:17:28,066 --> 00:17:32,000 like a string tied to all of it, so that I'm 320 00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:35,566 actually gonna benefit from it from a publishing 321 00:17:35,666 --> 00:17:38,800 standpoint, and just you know the 322 00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:43,233 property of my work is very important. 323 00:17:43,333 --> 00:17:46,600 So, yes so that was the thing that I did. I started a 324 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:49,766 business. Started a publishing company and 325 00:17:49,866 --> 00:17:53,066 all that after she came because, you 326 00:17:53,166 --> 00:17:56,200 know this can't just be a vanity. This can't just be 327 00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:59,133 like a fun project for me. Like this 328 00:17:59,233 --> 00:18:02,966 is actually my business. So yeah. 329 00:18:03,066 --> 00:18:06,933 Let's talk about the cover of the book and how you 330 00:18:07,033 --> 00:18:08,533 found this artist which story I like, 331 00:18:08,633 --> 00:18:10,966 - Yeah. - and why you chose 332 00:18:11,066 --> 00:18:15,233 this person and the way he looks. Yeah, so I ha an 333 00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:20,033 initial design to the book. I design all my 334 00:18:20,133 --> 00:18:23,600 books. And I do the visuals. That's just 335 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:28,200 as important to me as actually the text. So, I had 336 00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:31,133 a cover and then I started writing more 337 00:18:31,233 --> 00:18:33,466 poems and the poems didn't really seem to 338 00:18:33,566 --> 00:18:38,033 reflect the cover. So, ironically I was on Instagram. 339 00:18:38,133 --> 00:18:41,733 And I found this artist who does 340 00:18:41,833 --> 00:18:46,233 amazing strong black characters. And I just 341 00:18:46,333 --> 00:18:48,933 reached out to him and I said Hey I would love to 342 00:18:49,033 --> 00:18:52,100 use this on a book. And I said, 343 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,200 obviously I'll pay for the rights and all that. 344 00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:58,600 And he said yeah. So that was when I was able too go 345 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:01,800 through his feed and kind of pick out which ones 346 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:05,466 I wanted and I did some mockups. In this one, I 347 00:19:05,566 --> 00:19:09,733 really liked it because of the boom box that's in 348 00:19:09,833 --> 00:19:12,700 the back. Because so much of this 349 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,133 book is infused with music. I write about music 350 00:19:16,233 --> 00:19:19,133 a lot. So, it made, it sort of 351 00:19:19,233 --> 00:19:21,633 reminded me of me when I was younger, carrying 352 00:19:21,733 --> 00:19:25,133 around like a tape deck or whatever, always having 353 00:19:25,233 --> 00:19:28,900 new music around. So, yes. There's a boom box 354 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,333 in the back there. And that was almost just as 355 00:19:31,433 --> 00:19:34,833 important as the face itself. 356 00:19:34,933 --> 00:19:38,533 But also I haven't seen a lot of 357 00:19:38,633 --> 00:19:43,033 really dark faces on art. 358 00:19:43,133 --> 00:19:45,700 I think that the tendency is to lighten things up 359 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,333 and I think that it's cool to be just 360 00:19:48,433 --> 00:19:51,433 completely dark and black and know that is a 361 00:19:51,533 --> 00:19:54,700 positive thing. You know, we've been taught that dark is 362 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,533 bad. You know like the light side and dark side 363 00:19:57,633 --> 00:20:01,766 things like that. So like black cats are cursed cats. 364 00:20:01,866 --> 00:20:04,500 Things like that. So, I was thinking 365 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,066 about that a lot just realizing that being 366 00:20:08,166 --> 00:20:12,133 dark can be a positive thing. Yeah. Tell me about 367 00:20:12,233 --> 00:20:13,900 the timing of your book coming out. 368 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,966 Was it good or bad for you? This was a time for you when 369 00:20:17,066 --> 00:20:20,366 everybody was locked down. Right? Yeah it was actually 370 00:20:20,466 --> 00:20:24,300 amazing for me And I didn't plan it that way. 371 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,633 I come up with a timelines for a lot of my work a lot. 372 00:20:29,733 --> 00:20:34,133 I already have a plan in mind. And then I thought you know 373 00:20:34,233 --> 00:20:36,633 what I'm gonna stick to it and just see what 374 00:20:36,733 --> 00:20:39,933 happens. And it's weird to realize that I've been 375 00:20:40,033 --> 00:20:44,600 benefited from all the lock down stuff. 376 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:47,300 So, people are at home more. 377 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,100 And the sales have been great and all that. 378 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,233 So, I've just decided I was like 379 00:20:53,333 --> 00:20:56,466 you know this is the time for this book to come out. 380 00:20:56,566 --> 00:20:59,433 And if it comes out with a thud then 381 00:20:59,533 --> 00:21:02,466 that's fine, but the book and the poems 382 00:21:02,566 --> 00:21:06,533 were telling me that they needed to come out now. 383 00:21:06,633 --> 00:21:09,033 So, yeah I decided to pull the trigger 384 00:21:09,133 --> 00:21:13,066 on it and it ended up going well. It was a good decision. 385 00:21:13,166 --> 00:21:16,066 Very nice. Yeah. I noticed you also talk about 386 00:21:16,166 --> 00:21:19,933 buying local a lot. Why is all this local so important to you? 387 00:21:20,033 --> 00:21:23,900 Yeah, well so, yeah shout out to my wife. 388 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,900 She is a marketing director for a nonprofit 389 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,500 that deals with you know local businesses 390 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,600 and making sure that local community 391 00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:37,566 is uplifted. But I just think that when you 392 00:21:37,666 --> 00:21:40,866 think about what makes a culture, a culture, what 393 00:21:40,966 --> 00:21:43,900 makes a community, a community or a city, 394 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,700 a real city, it's actually the in 395 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,166 between the things. I hate to even say this 396 00:21:50,266 --> 00:21:53,633 in between but these big businesses are 397 00:21:53,733 --> 00:21:57,766 everywhere that you go. So, you can go to any city in 398 00:21:57,866 --> 00:22:00,300 America and there's going to be, 399 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,100 you know, Wal-mart. There's going to be a Burger King. 400 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,666 But I think it's when you really find out what the 401 00:22:06,766 --> 00:22:10,266 city is about is when you go to all the local 402 00:22:10,366 --> 00:22:12,700 businesses that are there and that's when you 403 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,333 really get a sense of what a city is, the soul 404 00:22:17,433 --> 00:22:20,700 of a city. Because there are so many cities 405 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,166 where everything looks the same 406 00:22:23,266 --> 00:22:25,833 So, I just think that 407 00:22:25,933 --> 00:22:30,166 it's important to know what makes a city 408 00:22:30,266 --> 00:22:32,733 special. How would you say that the soul of the city 409 00:22:32,833 --> 00:22:36,400 in Charleston especially has taking you in? 410 00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:41,500 Well, Charleston, I love my city. And I love it and I 411 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,000 love the positive aspects and I love the 412 00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:48,300 challenging aspects of it. So, that's a 413 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,966 layered question, just because there are so many 414 00:22:51,066 --> 00:22:54,833 things about Charleston that are really amazing. 415 00:22:54,933 --> 00:22:57,633 I think about the local community in Charleston 416 00:22:57,733 --> 00:23:01,766 and artists in the way that we support each other. 417 00:23:01,866 --> 00:23:04,566 But I also think about just the deep, deep racism. 418 00:23:04,666 --> 00:23:10,266 Racism is deep in Charleston and the city still 419 00:23:10,366 --> 00:23:13,866 hasn't been able to really properly talk 420 00:23:13,966 --> 00:23:19,533 about that and adequately cook correct it. You know? 421 00:23:19,633 --> 00:23:22,933 And the city benefits off of 422 00:23:23,033 --> 00:23:26,633 those challenges. I think it's - 423 00:23:26,733 --> 00:23:30,033 I think it's interesting. And the fact that Calhoun 424 00:23:30,133 --> 00:23:32,600 just came down, which is amazing. 425 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:35,266 But people have been trying to get it down for 426 00:23:35,366 --> 00:23:40,833 hundreds of years. And we can't be a just 427 00:23:40,933 --> 00:23:44,833 cit. We can't be a just America, if we keep 428 00:23:44,933 --> 00:23:47,433 elevating people who didn't believe in 429 00:23:47,533 --> 00:23:50,333 people's freedom. You know, we have to be 430 00:23:50,433 --> 00:23:53,666 patriotic. You know we have to fight for freedom. 431 00:23:53,766 --> 00:23:56,433 So, I even saw the way that 432 00:23:56,533 --> 00:23:59,266 that came down. I'm glad that it's down but it was 433 00:23:59,366 --> 00:24:03,900 still just. Man, it took too long, you know. 434 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,600 it took too long and it shouldn't. Things like 435 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:11,233 that should be easy. Because we are supposed 436 00:24:11,333 --> 00:24:15,100 to be a nation of freedom and a nation of like all 437 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,600 men are created equal. Anyway, Charleston, there are 438 00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:22,833 a lot of layers to it. I really 439 00:24:22,933 --> 00:24:26,100 love, love the city and when I when I write 440 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,000 about it, it is from that deep love like in 441 00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:31,366 sickness and in health. Like I have a deep, deep 442 00:24:31,466 --> 00:24:34,166 relationship with Charleston, so. 443 00:24:34,266 --> 00:24:36,233 We have been talking about the birth of all 444 00:24:36,333 --> 00:24:38,766 things with Marcus Amaker. Thank you for this 445 00:24:38,866 --> 00:24:40,833 conversation. Keep going. I can't believe I 446 00:24:40,933 --> 00:24:44,600 heard the timer go off. Wow! That was quick. Everyone we 447 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,133 appreciate you joining us for By the River. 448 00:24:47,233 --> 00:24:49,300 It's been a pleasure to have you on board. We're 449 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,700 gonna leave you now with a glimpse of the poet's corner. 450 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:52,866 We'll see you next time. 451 00:24:55,733 --> 00:24:57,266 I met America at a 452 00:24:57,366 --> 00:25:00,000 neighborhood bar he offered me a shot of 453 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:02,833 rum and I reminded him that Captain Morgan was a 454 00:25:02,933 --> 00:25:05,700 slave owner, so the bartender awkwardly 455 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,200 slipped another liquid lie down my throat. 456 00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:11,700 I ordered another drink and was channeled by dark 457 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,233 spirits the courage of black ghosts who haunt 458 00:25:15,333 --> 00:25:18,633 American dreams. I told him I loved him and I 459 00:25:18,733 --> 00:25:21,333 wanted him to sleep well. But I know I've been in 460 00:25:21,433 --> 00:25:24,666 your nightmares, I said. I want to be your friend 461 00:25:24,766 --> 00:25:28,066 but only if it's a deep relationship, only if you 462 00:25:28,166 --> 00:25:30,800 show me that you are not scared of your baggage. 463 00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:33,566 Bring your whole history to the table. 464 00:25:33,666 --> 00:25:37,400 America cracked open another beer as a tear ran down his 465 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:41,866 face. He said, I was born in a house not my own and 466 00:25:41,966 --> 00:25:44,700 my father's demanded that their portraits hang on 467 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,533 every wall. White paint covers each brown brick. 468 00:25:48,633 --> 00:25:52,500 And our backyard is a museum of unmarked graves. 469 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,166 Despite this a garden grows, I said. Every home 470 00:25:56,266 --> 00:25:59,033 can be torn down and rebuilt again but I've 471 00:25:59,133 --> 00:26:02,166 been told I shouldn't completely let you in, 472 00:26:02,266 --> 00:26:05,100 he said. Some people in my family stand in the 473 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,833 doorway blocking the entrance. He left before I 474 00:26:08,933 --> 00:26:11,300 could tell him that my people have a history of 475 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,133 finding ways inside broken spaces and making 476 00:26:15,233 --> 00:26:17,233 them whole again. 477 00:26:17,333 --> 00:26:19,700 By The River is brought to you in part by 478 00:26:20,933 --> 00:26:22,800 The University of South Carolina Beaufort, 479 00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:25,833 Learning in action, discovered, 480 00:26:25,933 --> 00:26:28,366 Community Foundation of the Low Country, 481 00:26:28,466 --> 00:26:30,200 Strengthening community, 482 00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:36,033 Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB, 483 00:26:37,633 --> 00:26:39,533 The Pat Conroy Literary Center, 484 00:26:41,933 --> 00:26:42,833 Artistic Flower Shop.