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♪

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>> Too many guns and not enough

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restrictions were just too many

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restrictions?

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Hi, everybody.

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It is Reporters Roundtable.

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Matt Friedman is a reporter for

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political and author of the New

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Jersey playbook.

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Charles style is the political

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columnist for the record USA

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Today network, and John Wright

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Meyer is the budget and finance

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writer for NJ Spotlight News.

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We get to the panel in just a

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few minutes, but we begin today

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with the debate over guns and

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New Jersey.

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A court ruling this week

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overturned most of Governor

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Murphy's gun carry restrictions.

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At the administration had tried

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to restrict guns from certain

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sensitive areas.

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Our guest today a plot of the

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routing and chided Democrats for

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trying to infringe upon the

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Second Amendment.

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Republican assemblyman Brian

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Bergen joins us now.

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Welcome back to roundtable.

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>> It is great to see you.

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>> The ruling also struck down

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the requirement that gun owners

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carry insurance.

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What is wrong with requiring

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insurance?

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You cannot drive a car without

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insurance.

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>> The biggest problem is you

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cannot even do it here in the

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state right now.

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Governor Murphy by executive

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order restricted the

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availability of insurance, so

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the law contradicted his

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executive order, so it was not

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possible for people to follow,

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and that point was brought up to

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the drafters of this bill that

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they were putting a bill out

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where people could not even

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comply with the law that they

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were doing, because it was in

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direct conflict with Governor

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Murphy's executive order, and

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also part of the reason why it

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is not a great thing to require

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a certain level of insurance for

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gun owners is because you are

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forcing people to pay x more

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dollars to exercise their

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constitutional right to carry,

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and then it restricts people who

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cannot afford that, so you are

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limiting the number of people

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who can do what is

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constitutionally their right.

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>> You talk about constitutional

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rights, everyone talks about the

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second amendment.

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What does the Second Amendment

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say to you?

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How do you interpret the Second

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Amendment?

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>> You have the right to bear

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arms.

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We have the fundamental right --

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>> It does not exactly say that.

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>> I have it right in front of

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me.

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>> That is your interpretation

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them.

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It means an individual as a

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right to bear arms.

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Let me just be clear on that, we

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are in an era of mass shootings

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pretty much every week.

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Do you think it is good public

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policy to allow guns in parks

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and plazas and bars and concert

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halls?

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>> It is not -- listen,

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concealed care he has been

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vilified by the Democrats here

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in the state for a long time.

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The reality of it is allowing

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concealed carry does not

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increase crime.

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It does not increase gun

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violence.

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It does not increase mass

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shootings.

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Concealed carry is not the

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issue.

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Concealed carry happens in many

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other states and is rarely if

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ever the source of an issue.

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People who conceal carry our

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responsible gun owners who do so

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safely.

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The problem with the gun law is

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when they started restricting

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all of the different little

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places you can and cannot do and

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started having people have to

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load and unload guns when they

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got in and out of a car and take

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the gun out here and take the

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gun up there is they made it

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less safe, because when a gun

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owner has to take a gun out of

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the holster and remove the

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ammunition and store it, that is

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when there is risk of an

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accident.

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When a person is a gun on them

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concealed and they do not remove

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it from the holster, that is

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safe.

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There is no logical reason to

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restrict people from carrying in

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these places.

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It happens all over the country,

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and there are no problems with

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it, so there is no reason to do

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it here.

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>> Charlie, you have a question?

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>> On this issue, we can debate

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the Second Amendment.

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I do not think we have time for

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that, but clearly -- let me ask

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you this.

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Do you see kind of a middle

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ground here?

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We are in uncharted waters here.

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They state is a pro-gun control

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state.

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If the idea of suddenly allowing

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concealed weapons in public on

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nerves a lot of people, so where

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can we find a middle ground on

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this?

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Obviously we will not get far in

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the courts for people who

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support concealed carry, but

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weighing that versus the anxiety

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, we are now going to be a set

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of laws that await us with the

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South or gun friendly states.

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>> I understand what your

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question is, what I think it is

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an extreme that does not exist.

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As an example, people were

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allowed to concealed carry in

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the state of New Jersey last

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year in the year before that and

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the year before that.

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It was just a small troop of

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people, and they had to have a

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justifiable need, and those

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people did not have these

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restrictions.

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There been people concealed

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carrying in the state of New

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Jersey for decades, and we

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cannot -- have not had a problem

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with those people that I am

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aware of.

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This is not a brand-new thing,

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and they were allowed to carry

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in all of these places we are

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now attempting to restrict.

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Since the decision happened,

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from then until now, people have

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been carrying guns and all of

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those places, and we have not

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seen any issue.

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The Democrats in the state of

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New Jersey are trying to paint

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this as this particular decision

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and allow people to conceal

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carry is going to great this

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wild West with people running

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around willy-nilly with guns

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strapped around their chest.

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That is not the case.

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People who carry concealed our

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responsible gun owners.

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There is not a lot of risk

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associated to it, and there is

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not a lot of danger in allowing

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them to carry, so in fact most

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people who get Concealed Carry

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License will not actually even

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carry.

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Most people want it so they do

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not have to worry about New

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Jersey's overly restrictive laws

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in terms of transportation, and

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they just want their freedom to

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take the gun to the range and

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back without going to jail.

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>> Let me move on to quick

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questions on budget.

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Treasury says collections are

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way down, there is a $53 billion

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budget out there.

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Is this a disaster waiting to

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happen?

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>> Yeah, there is only so long

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you can continue to increase how

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much the government spends.

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It is a ridiculous approach to

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governing, and we are overtaxed,

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yet the budget continues to grow

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and taxes continue to get added.

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These numbers might not be

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exact, but ballpark.

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$36 billion budget when Governor

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Kristi Noem left office to a 53

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billion dollars budget, and the

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question I would ask people is

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is your life fundamentally

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better because of that?

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The answer most people would say

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is "no."

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What is all of that money going

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toward?

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Most of it is being wasted on

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things we do not need and people

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are being taxed for things that

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are not justifiable.

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>> I had two questions and two

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answers, literally 30 seconds.

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Are you guys going to flip

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either of the houses in

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November?

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00:08:49,595 --> 00:08:51,397
>> Absolutely, we are definitely

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going to flip the Senate and I

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am hoping we can get the

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assembly.

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I am committed.

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00:08:57,937 --> 00:08:59,605
>> How about this one.

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00:08:59,605 --> 00:09:00,306
Do you have a pic for governor

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00:09:00,306 --> 00:09:04,477
in 2025?

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00:09:04,477 --> 00:09:06,546
>> Jack Ciattarelli.

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>> That is early.

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Good to see you, man.

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Thank you for stopping by.

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Pennell, Matt, Charles, John,

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good to see you all.

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Let's start with this going

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ruling.

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What is the impact of this going

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00:09:21,494 --> 00:09:23,596
to be?

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Charles, this is a done deal.

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Gun control is over?

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>> I do not know about that.

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We have a raft of very strict

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laws.

293
00:09:35,741 --> 00:09:38,411
I just do not -- he had

294
00:09:38,411 --> 00:09:42,214
mentioned people who have been

295
00:09:42,214 --> 00:09:43,516
using concealed care he in this

296
00:09:43,516 --> 00:09:44,183
state have been permitted to

297
00:09:44,183 --> 00:09:47,420
carry it in public, but those

298
00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:48,187
are very committed -- that was a

299
00:09:48,187 --> 00:09:51,591
very limited class of people.

300
00:09:51,591 --> 00:09:53,025
He does not see that there is

301
00:09:53,025 --> 00:09:57,563
any middle ground.

302
00:09:57,563 --> 00:09:58,297
I do not know -- I do believe we

303
00:09:58,297 --> 00:10:03,636
are in uncharted territory.

304
00:10:03,636 --> 00:10:04,737
Maybe the governor's law and the

305
00:10:04,737 --> 00:10:05,438
restrictions we put out was a

306
00:10:05,438 --> 00:10:08,274
bit of an overreach.

307
00:10:08,274 --> 00:10:09,342
I do think that maybe there is

308
00:10:09,342 --> 00:10:14,947
some middle ground, but I do not

309
00:10:14,947 --> 00:10:17,617
see any mood for reaching some

310
00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:18,284
sort of bipartisan rational

311
00:10:18,284 --> 00:10:21,921
middle ground on this.

312
00:10:21,921 --> 00:10:26,826
>> Go ahead, Matt.

313
00:10:26,826 --> 00:10:30,162
>> New Jersey will be kicking

314
00:10:30,162 --> 00:10:35,034
and screaming.

315
00:10:35,034 --> 00:10:35,735
I think there are a couple of

316
00:10:35,735 --> 00:10:38,471
points.

317
00:10:38,471 --> 00:10:39,805
I cannot speak specifically to

318
00:10:39,805 --> 00:10:40,406
conceal Garrick, but the

319
00:10:40,406 --> 00:10:42,975
statistics on gun does speak for

320
00:10:42,975 --> 00:10:43,676
themselves when we talk about

321
00:10:43,676 --> 00:10:44,276
the effectiveness of gun

322
00:10:44,276 --> 00:10:46,412
control.

323
00:10:46,412 --> 00:10:48,881
A lot of them are suicides, but

324
00:10:48,881 --> 00:10:49,882
if you look at a chart of states

325
00:10:49,882 --> 00:10:53,719
based on how strict their gun

326
00:10:53,719 --> 00:10:55,888
laws are and how many gun deaths

327
00:10:55,888 --> 00:10:56,622
there are in those states, it is

328
00:10:56,622 --> 00:10:58,924
almost exactly inverse.

329
00:10:58,924 --> 00:10:59,625
The stronger the gun laws, the

330
00:10:59,625 --> 00:11:03,596
fewer gun deaths.

331
00:11:03,596 --> 00:11:04,330
This is a constitutional right,

332
00:11:04,330 --> 00:11:05,031
the Supreme Court says it is,

333
00:11:05,031 --> 00:11:06,499
but it is.

334
00:11:06,499 --> 00:11:07,133
Gun control does decrease

335
00:11:07,133 --> 00:11:10,269
condenser.

336
00:11:10,269 --> 00:11:11,270
A lot of those are suicides, but

337
00:11:11,270 --> 00:11:12,338
that does not mean those people

338
00:11:12,338 --> 00:11:13,572
would necessarily be dead if

339
00:11:13,572 --> 00:11:15,741
there was not gun control,

340
00:11:15,741 --> 00:11:19,779
because obviously suicide with a

341
00:11:19,779 --> 00:11:25,084
gun is much more final than my

342
00:11:25,084 --> 00:11:28,721
-- my most of her methods --

343
00:11:28,721 --> 00:11:30,823
bite most of her -- by most

344
00:11:30,823 --> 00:11:34,260
other methods.

345
00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:36,529
--

346
00:11:36,529 --> 00:11:38,330
That is just a fact.

347
00:11:38,330 --> 00:11:38,898
We can talk about the

348
00:11:38,898 --> 00:11:43,035
constitutional rights and how it

349
00:11:43,035 --> 00:11:43,969
is interpreted that the

350
00:11:43,969 --> 00:11:45,404
Constitution guarantees the

351
00:11:45,404 --> 00:11:47,273
Second Amendment is right now

352
00:11:47,273 --> 00:11:48,741
very loosely interpreted, and

353
00:11:48,741 --> 00:11:49,475
that changes depending upon the

354
00:11:49,475 --> 00:11:50,910
cord.

355
00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:53,145
People talk about it like it is

356
00:11:53,145 --> 00:11:53,846
some inalienable right that is

357
00:11:53,846 --> 00:11:57,016
self-explanatory.

358
00:11:57,016 --> 00:11:57,750
For generation after generation

359
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:58,350
and has been interpreted

360
00:11:58,350 --> 00:11:59,719
differently.

361
00:11:59,719 --> 00:12:03,823
It is interpreted this way by a

362
00:12:03,823 --> 00:12:05,991
conservative court, and future

363
00:12:05,991 --> 00:12:06,659
generations will interpreted

364
00:12:06,659 --> 00:12:07,560
differently.

365
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:11,163
The cat is out of the bag.

366
00:12:11,163 --> 00:12:11,897
>> We will not solve this one

367
00:12:11,897 --> 00:12:12,865
here.

368
00:12:12,865 --> 00:12:16,836
Let me move on.

369
00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:18,504
Lots of action as we head into

370
00:12:18,504 --> 00:12:19,105
the final turn on budget

371
00:12:19,105 --> 00:12:22,341
hearings.

372
00:12:22,341 --> 00:12:24,076
John, today we faced no crisis,

373
00:12:24,076 --> 00:12:27,179
says Liz, but collections are

374
00:12:27,179 --> 00:12:27,847
down, and lots of groups are

375
00:12:27,847 --> 00:12:30,950
still clamoring for money in the

376
00:12:30,950 --> 00:12:32,151
budget that is up to $53

377
00:12:32,151 --> 00:12:34,920
billion.

378
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:35,654
That is your cue to give us the

379
00:12:35,654 --> 00:12:36,288
highlights of this we can

380
00:12:36,288 --> 00:12:43,195
budget.

381
00:12:43,195 --> 00:12:44,296
>> Collections are not down, so

382
00:12:44,296 --> 00:12:45,631
I think what has gotten lost in

383
00:12:45,631 --> 00:12:48,567
some of the headlines this week

384
00:12:48,567 --> 00:12:49,969
and may be my own is back in

385
00:12:49,969 --> 00:12:52,972
February, the Treasury

386
00:12:52,972 --> 00:12:53,672
Department revised projections

387
00:12:53,672 --> 00:12:59,044
for their current fiscal year by

388
00:12:59,044 --> 00:12:59,779
more than $3 billion, so we have

389
00:12:59,779 --> 00:13:00,479
strong collections during the

390
00:13:00,479 --> 00:13:03,115
first part of the fiscal year.

391
00:13:03,115 --> 00:13:04,550
We have yet to get up into some

392
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:06,085
of the bump in as we have seen

393
00:13:06,085 --> 00:13:06,819
in the economy with things like

394
00:13:06,819 --> 00:13:08,621
the banking industry and bank

395
00:13:08,621 --> 00:13:11,190
failures, you are interest rate

396
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:11,924
hikes that occurred by then, and

397
00:13:11,924 --> 00:13:14,560
so what they have announced

398
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:15,694
recently is that the rejection

399
00:13:15,694 --> 00:13:17,730
scaled-back for the current

400
00:13:17,730 --> 00:13:21,367
fiscal year by a billion.

401
00:13:21,367 --> 00:13:22,768
We still have these huge

402
00:13:22,768 --> 00:13:26,305
surpluses that we have been

403
00:13:26,305 --> 00:13:27,006
building up in recent years as

404
00:13:27,006 --> 00:13:29,508
there is been tremendous revenue

405
00:13:29,508 --> 00:13:30,509
growth, so to answer the

406
00:13:30,509 --> 00:13:33,445
assemblymen because of his

407
00:13:33,445 --> 00:13:34,113
question, where is the money

408
00:13:34,113 --> 00:13:36,649
gone?

409
00:13:36,649 --> 00:13:37,383
A big portion of it has gone to

410
00:13:37,383 --> 00:13:39,785
paying obligations to the public

411
00:13:39,785 --> 00:13:40,519
worker pension fund, which were

412
00:13:40,519 --> 00:13:41,153
decades was ignored in New

413
00:13:41,153 --> 00:13:42,555
Jersey.

414
00:13:42,555 --> 00:13:46,458
We have a property tax relief

415
00:13:46,458 --> 00:13:47,159
program, and education aid has

416
00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:48,594
been increased significantly.

417
00:13:48,594 --> 00:13:51,096
If you want to look at where the

418
00:13:51,096 --> 00:13:52,464
spending is occurred, those of

419
00:13:52,464 --> 00:13:54,733
the good places to start, so we

420
00:13:54,733 --> 00:13:58,704
are not down revenue, but we are

421
00:13:58,704 --> 00:13:59,438
going to get a little less than

422
00:13:59,438 --> 00:14:02,174
we thought we were going to get

423
00:14:02,174 --> 00:14:02,908
in February and adjustments had

424
00:14:02,908 --> 00:14:07,246
to be made as a result of that.

425
00:14:07,246 --> 00:14:12,051
>> How did moyel do?

426
00:14:12,051 --> 00:14:12,685
>> She came in and had the

427
00:14:12,685 --> 00:14:13,352
strength of having these big

428
00:14:13,352 --> 00:14:16,121
surpluses.

429
00:14:16,121 --> 00:14:16,856
If you remember just a few years

430
00:14:16,856 --> 00:14:18,924
ago when the pandemic began and

431
00:14:18,924 --> 00:14:20,092
we had a shortfall and we did

432
00:14:20,092 --> 00:14:21,827
not have such a robust surplus,

433
00:14:21,827 --> 00:14:25,631
they were talking about pulling

434
00:14:25,631 --> 00:14:26,365
back property tax relief,

435
00:14:26,365 --> 00:14:29,335
holding off on education

436
00:14:29,335 --> 00:14:30,169
increases in aid, there was some

437
00:14:30,169 --> 00:14:30,803
talk that did not come to

438
00:14:30,803 --> 00:14:32,972
fruition of delaying increases

439
00:14:32,972 --> 00:14:35,074
in engine contributions, so we

440
00:14:35,074 --> 00:14:39,078
are not in that situation

441
00:14:39,078 --> 00:14:39,812
because the administration built

442
00:14:39,812 --> 00:14:42,314
up a decent surplus.

443
00:14:42,314 --> 00:14:42,982
She was able to speak from a

444
00:14:42,982 --> 00:14:45,050
position of strength.

445
00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:48,053
The one catching all of this is

446
00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:49,588
headed into the new fiscal year,

447
00:14:49,588 --> 00:14:51,790
the base is now smaller, so we

448
00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:54,059
have not seen the administration

449
00:14:54,059 --> 00:14:54,660
scale back its spending

450
00:14:54,660 --> 00:14:55,327
ambitions for the new fiscal

451
00:14:55,327 --> 00:14:57,263
year.

452
00:14:57,263 --> 00:14:59,732
In fact, there is a slight gap

453
00:14:59,732 --> 00:15:00,399
between what they planned to

454
00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:04,003
spend and collect.

455
00:15:04,003 --> 00:15:04,703
The economy could turn worse,

456
00:15:04,703 --> 00:15:05,371
revenues could drop a little

457
00:15:05,371 --> 00:15:08,073
further.

458
00:15:08,073 --> 00:15:08,774
Then we have a real structural

459
00:15:08,774 --> 00:15:10,609
gap, whereas right now it is

460
00:15:10,609 --> 00:15:13,279
just the projections are a

461
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:15,514
little lower than they thought a

462
00:15:15,514 --> 00:15:17,549
few months ago when we still

463
00:15:17,549 --> 00:15:20,152
were building up big surpluses,

464
00:15:20,152 --> 00:15:20,819
and now we are building up a

465
00:15:20,819 --> 00:15:26,825
little less of a big surplus.

466
00:15:26,825 --> 00:15:27,693
>> Governor Murphy nominated as

467
00:15:27,693 --> 00:15:32,598
Supreme Court Justice.

468
00:15:32,598 --> 00:15:33,265
Union County, Hudson County,

469
00:15:33,265 --> 00:15:35,167
former public defender.

470
00:15:35,167 --> 00:15:41,073
Charlie, you were at the event.

471
00:15:41,073 --> 00:15:43,575
State Senator John Brad Nick won

472
00:15:43,575 --> 00:15:44,243
the day with his comments on

473
00:15:44,243 --> 00:15:45,311
friends and working together.

474
00:15:45,311 --> 00:15:48,080
What did you think?

475
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,983
>> There was no doubt.

476
00:15:50,983 --> 00:15:53,485
It was a rare display of

477
00:15:53,485 --> 00:15:54,086
bipartisan cooperation,

478
00:15:54,086 --> 00:15:56,088
something you do not see often

479
00:15:56,088 --> 00:15:57,690
in Trenton or certainly in

480
00:15:57,690 --> 00:16:00,793
Washington.

481
00:16:00,793 --> 00:16:01,593
Certainly helped that this was a

482
00:16:01,593 --> 00:16:03,162
law partner that he was very

483
00:16:03,162 --> 00:16:07,266
close to.

484
00:16:07,266 --> 00:16:08,067
>> It plays well if you want to

485
00:16:08,067 --> 00:16:10,769
run for governor, right?

486
00:16:10,769 --> 00:16:13,806
Let's all work together.

487
00:16:13,806 --> 00:16:18,610
>> That is clearly delaying John

488
00:16:18,610 --> 00:16:21,814
brandick will run in as the

489
00:16:21,814 --> 00:16:25,217
bipartisan lower I ideological

490
00:16:25,217 --> 00:16:28,053
Republican, one who knows how to

491
00:16:28,053 --> 00:16:29,488
work on both sides, so this is a

492
00:16:29,488 --> 00:16:38,030
showpiece item or Murphy.

493
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:38,697
Get off the stage of comedy

494
00:16:38,697 --> 00:16:39,398
night and get on the big stage

495
00:16:39,398 --> 00:16:42,334
for governor.

496
00:16:42,334 --> 00:16:43,002
>> Did you get any wind from

497
00:16:43,002 --> 00:16:45,104
discontent behind the scenes

498
00:16:45,104 --> 00:16:45,804
from Latino lawmakers who had

499
00:16:45,804 --> 00:16:51,944
their own candidates in mind?

500
00:16:51,944 --> 00:16:52,644
>> no, but I cannot say I was

501
00:16:52,644 --> 00:16:54,380
calling a ton of them.

502
00:16:54,380 --> 00:16:55,981
I was working on some other

503
00:16:55,981 --> 00:16:58,450
stuff.

504
00:16:58,450 --> 00:17:03,355
I know there was some talk about

505
00:17:03,355 --> 00:17:06,125
wanting a Latina, but it looks

506
00:17:06,125 --> 00:17:06,925
like this guy will sail through.

507
00:17:06,925 --> 00:17:11,363
He has got enough votes.

508
00:17:11,363 --> 00:17:14,566
>> The governor conditionally

509
00:17:14,566 --> 00:17:15,267
vetoed the bill on the dresses

510
00:17:15,267 --> 00:17:17,703
of government officials.

511
00:17:17,703 --> 00:17:19,538
I thought, change of heart, with

512
00:17:19,538 --> 00:17:20,272
the bill was only vetoed because

513
00:17:20,272 --> 00:17:23,742
of a technicality over dates.

514
00:17:23,742 --> 00:17:24,443
We had CJ Griffin on Chat Box

515
00:17:24,443 --> 00:17:26,045
this week, and she was

516
00:17:26,045 --> 00:17:28,347
explaining how you will not even

517
00:17:28,347 --> 00:17:29,081
get to know if you're married

518
00:17:29,081 --> 00:17:33,018
and where he says he lives there

519
00:17:33,018 --> 00:17:33,752
it John, you have been down your

520
00:17:33,752 --> 00:17:36,755
share of rabbit holes.

521
00:17:36,755 --> 00:17:39,058
How hard would it be to find out

522
00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:43,562
anything about our leaders?

523
00:17:43,562 --> 00:17:44,229
>> Definitely will make it a

524
00:17:44,229 --> 00:17:46,098
little bit harder.

525
00:17:46,098 --> 00:17:50,636
I can remember doing some

526
00:17:50,636 --> 00:17:51,336
reporting where at issue was a

527
00:17:51,336 --> 00:17:55,007
second home that a lawmaker

528
00:17:55,007 --> 00:17:57,576
owned, and having the

529
00:17:57,576 --> 00:17:58,310
disclosures, you can pull those

530
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:59,311
mortgage records and make sure

531
00:17:59,311 --> 00:18:03,115
they were saying was accurate.

532
00:18:03,115 --> 00:18:05,117
I was not using those records

533
00:18:05,117 --> 00:18:09,588
for anything nefarious, more

534
00:18:09,588 --> 00:18:10,823
fact checking and double

535
00:18:10,823 --> 00:18:11,423
checking the finances of

536
00:18:11,423 --> 00:18:12,157
lawmakers, which is part of our

537
00:18:12,157 --> 00:18:14,126
job.

538
00:18:14,126 --> 00:18:14,960
They be it comes harder for us,

539
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,295
harder for the public.

540
00:18:16,295 --> 00:18:18,864
It is a balancing act.

541
00:18:18,864 --> 00:18:26,305
We do live in a dangerous world.

542
00:18:26,305 --> 00:18:29,374
The public records law, so much

543
00:18:29,374 --> 00:18:30,309
as changed technologically since

544
00:18:30,309 --> 00:18:32,377
it was drafted, it is a huge

545
00:18:32,377 --> 00:18:33,078
lift, but it really does need

546
00:18:33,078 --> 00:18:37,416
another look.

547
00:18:37,416 --> 00:18:39,852
Just think of the technological

548
00:18:39,852 --> 00:18:42,621
advancements in the last few

549
00:18:42,621 --> 00:18:43,288
years let alone the last few

550
00:18:43,288 --> 00:18:48,227
decades.

551
00:18:48,227 --> 00:18:48,961
Public records laws have big --

552
00:18:48,961 --> 00:18:51,263
become outdated.

553
00:18:51,263 --> 00:18:52,898
>> We heard Paul making noise

554
00:18:52,898 --> 00:18:54,533
about working on reforms.

555
00:18:54,533 --> 00:19:00,105
That sounds promising.

556
00:19:00,105 --> 00:19:03,275
>> Yeah, taken on its own it

557
00:19:03,275 --> 00:19:03,976
sounds promising, because the

558
00:19:03,976 --> 00:19:07,379
law could use updates.

559
00:19:07,379 --> 00:19:09,781
>> That was a sarcasm link there

560
00:19:09,781 --> 00:19:13,619
-- wink there.

561
00:19:13,619 --> 00:19:14,353
>> Based on the track record of

562
00:19:14,353 --> 00:19:15,387
the legislature which is been

563
00:19:15,387 --> 00:19:18,157
over the last couple of years,

564
00:19:18,157 --> 00:19:19,091
steadily swallow chipping away

565
00:19:19,091 --> 00:19:22,794
at transparency measures.

566
00:19:22,794 --> 00:19:23,595
John mentioned a vacation home.

567
00:19:23,595 --> 00:19:26,465
On their financial disclosure

568
00:19:26,465 --> 00:19:27,199
forms, they not only had to list

569
00:19:27,199 --> 00:19:28,867
to the address of their vacation

570
00:19:28,867 --> 00:19:32,671
home or their immediate home,

571
00:19:32,671 --> 00:19:33,405
they do not even have to list if

572
00:19:33,405 --> 00:19:34,106
they own them unless they are

573
00:19:34,106 --> 00:19:35,574
renting it out.

574
00:19:35,574 --> 00:19:39,344
I think that is ridiculous.

575
00:19:39,344 --> 00:19:40,078
For public officials, we should

576
00:19:40,078 --> 00:19:42,948
be able to know these things

577
00:19:42,948 --> 00:19:43,682
read we should know where their

578
00:19:43,682 --> 00:19:45,684
houses are.

579
00:19:45,684 --> 00:19:46,785
There been a lot of scandals in

580
00:19:46,785 --> 00:19:48,654
New Jersey over the years of

581
00:19:48,654 --> 00:19:49,388
public contractors doing work on

582
00:19:49,388 --> 00:19:51,924
private homes.

583
00:19:51,924 --> 00:19:52,658
I think it is sort of like the

584
00:19:52,658 --> 00:19:55,027
lobster in the water.

585
00:19:55,027 --> 00:19:56,728
Everything looks like a little

586
00:19:56,728 --> 00:20:00,132
change, but these things are

587
00:20:00,132 --> 00:20:00,899
starting to add up, and Daniel's

588
00:20:00,899 --> 00:20:05,537
law, and public records

589
00:20:05,537 --> 00:20:10,375
officials, what happened to

590
00:20:10,375 --> 00:20:13,045
Judge Esther Allis is a huge

591
00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:14,680
tragedy, but look up records

592
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:15,280
right now, and they are

593
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:15,881
rejecting everything for

594
00:20:15,881 --> 00:20:19,484
everyone.

595
00:20:19,484 --> 00:20:20,185
It is a complete overly broad

596
00:20:20,185 --> 00:20:21,286
reduction of addresses and

597
00:20:21,286 --> 00:20:24,990
everything.

598
00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:27,059
Look, a democracy to function,

599
00:20:27,059 --> 00:20:29,695
you need a good measure of

600
00:20:29,695 --> 00:20:30,362
transparency, and it is not

601
00:20:30,362 --> 00:20:35,667
going in the right direction.

602
00:20:35,667 --> 00:20:38,737
>> I would also add one of the

603
00:20:38,737 --> 00:20:39,638
big things you might want to

604
00:20:39,638 --> 00:20:41,206
know sometimes is who is

605
00:20:41,206 --> 00:20:43,976
financing the second homes.

606
00:20:43,976 --> 00:20:45,844
That would take knowing the

607
00:20:45,844 --> 00:20:48,780
address, knowing the property,

608
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:49,948
and, yes, you could probably

609
00:20:49,948 --> 00:20:50,582
still find it, it will be

610
00:20:50,582 --> 00:20:54,319
harder.

611
00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:56,822
>> Real quick --

612
00:20:56,822 --> 00:20:59,424
>> In April the County Clerk

613
00:20:59,424 --> 00:21:00,158
shut off online access to public

614
00:21:00,158 --> 00:21:01,827
records.

615
00:21:01,827 --> 00:21:04,329
Now you have to travel to the

616
00:21:04,329 --> 00:21:05,998
Gloucester County clerk's office

617
00:21:05,998 --> 00:21:07,666
like it is 1991, OK?

618
00:21:07,666 --> 00:21:10,035
That is not good.

619
00:21:10,035 --> 00:21:13,238
This is ridiculous, and I do not

620
00:21:13,238 --> 00:21:14,640
have much faith that the

621
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:15,340
legislature is going to go in

622
00:21:15,340 --> 00:21:19,278
approach transparency direction.

623
00:21:19,278 --> 00:21:23,415
>> We are getting reports of

624
00:21:23,415 --> 00:21:24,016
Christie announcing for

625
00:21:24,016 --> 00:21:28,153
president is imminent.

626
00:21:28,153 --> 00:21:28,887
Do you think you and I are going

627
00:21:28,887 --> 00:21:31,123
to run into each other at a bar

628
00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:31,723
in Nashua sometime next

629
00:21:31,723 --> 00:21:34,960
February?

630
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,094
>> Given our company's travel

631
00:21:36,094 --> 00:21:37,396
budget, probably not.

632
00:21:37,396 --> 00:21:44,202
>> [LAUGHTER]

633
00:21:44,202 --> 00:21:44,903
>> Yes, it may be, maybe for a

634
00:21:44,903 --> 00:21:46,638
little while.

635
00:21:46,638 --> 00:21:52,544
Maybe Chris Christie and his

636
00:21:52,544 --> 00:21:53,312
Trump bashing routine could gain

637
00:21:53,312 --> 00:21:53,745
some traction.

638
00:21:53,745 --> 00:21:56,815
I do not see any evidence of it.

639
00:21:56,815 --> 00:21:57,516
We do not have confirmation of

640
00:21:57,516 --> 00:22:02,321
it yet.

641
00:22:02,321 --> 00:22:06,091
>> Evidence of a rationale?

642
00:22:06,091 --> 00:22:07,893
>> It plays well to the never T

643
00:22:07,893 --> 00:22:12,497
rumpers.

644
00:22:12,497 --> 00:22:13,465
For the ardent base that is

645
00:22:13,465 --> 00:22:14,900
really with him and put them in

646
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:15,901
front what her status, I do not

647
00:22:15,901 --> 00:22:16,601
see how that persuades anybody

648
00:22:16,601 --> 00:22:20,272
right now.

649
00:22:20,272 --> 00:22:21,006
>> Time for our only interesting

650
00:22:21,006 --> 00:22:22,240
moments, headlines and notes

651
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:22,874
that are quintessentially

652
00:22:22,874 --> 00:22:25,310
Jersey.

653
00:22:25,310 --> 00:22:28,280
Let's start with you.

654
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,450
>> I went to bring attention to

655
00:22:31,450 --> 00:22:37,789
some pandemic relief spending

656
00:22:37,789 --> 00:22:39,958
that the legislature approved

657
00:22:39,958 --> 00:22:42,894
recently.

658
00:22:42,894 --> 00:22:46,865
Only appropriate that in New

659
00:22:46,865 --> 00:22:49,401
Jersey where we have already

660
00:22:49,401 --> 00:22:50,135
heavily subsidized that there is

661
00:22:50,135 --> 00:22:52,771
more public intervention.

662
00:22:52,771 --> 00:22:57,609
The argument is this will bring

663
00:22:57,609 --> 00:22:58,343
Taurus -- tourists to the

664
00:22:58,343 --> 00:23:02,180
location.

665
00:23:02,180 --> 00:23:04,983
>> Charlie, got one?

666
00:23:04,983 --> 00:23:08,019
>> I think that is a laughable

667
00:23:08,019 --> 00:23:08,653
use of money for pandemic

668
00:23:08,653 --> 00:23:11,690
relief, sorry.

669
00:23:11,690 --> 00:23:16,561
But I also think even more

670
00:23:16,561 --> 00:23:22,601
laughable is $3.5 million for

671
00:23:22,601 --> 00:23:23,235
this NMA cage fighting at

672
00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:26,571
Preudential Center.

673
00:23:26,571 --> 00:23:27,305
What I do not understand is that

674
00:23:27,305 --> 00:23:28,039
money was approved by The Sports

675
00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:30,742
Authority.

676
00:23:30,742 --> 00:23:33,445
It is not responsible for the

677
00:23:33,445 --> 00:23:38,083
Preudential Center, so why are

678
00:23:38,083 --> 00:23:39,084
these -- where we financing this

679
00:23:39,084 --> 00:23:39,818
to begin with, and why did it go

680
00:23:39,818 --> 00:23:43,088
that way?

681
00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:43,755
And they approved it several

682
00:23:43,755 --> 00:23:44,856
days before the event took

683
00:23:44,856 --> 00:23:48,126
place.

684
00:23:48,126 --> 00:23:51,096
>> It is for the economy.

685
00:23:51,096 --> 00:23:55,233
Matt, in his home.

686
00:23:55,233 --> 00:23:57,869
-- bring us home.

687
00:23:57,869 --> 00:24:02,274
>> Classic Trenton power play.

688
00:24:02,274 --> 00:24:03,108
Good government to prevent

689
00:24:03,108 --> 00:24:05,777
constitutional officers like

690
00:24:05,777 --> 00:24:06,545
County Clerk's, surrogates, and

691
00:24:06,545 --> 00:24:07,145
sheriffs from being cap

692
00:24:07,145 --> 00:24:09,614
teachers.

693
00:24:09,614 --> 00:24:14,386
Just happens the bill is

694
00:24:14,386 --> 00:24:17,222
sponsored by Democratic Senator,

695
00:24:17,222 --> 00:24:17,923
and the Republican chairman is

696
00:24:17,923 --> 00:24:22,661
the sheriff.

697
00:24:22,661 --> 00:24:23,395
>> I wish there was an emoji for

698
00:24:23,395 --> 00:24:25,997
that.

699
00:24:25,997 --> 00:24:29,034
Mine comes from Hoboken.

700
00:24:29,034 --> 00:24:31,036
The superintendent of schools

701
00:24:31,036 --> 00:24:34,005
Dr. Christine Johnson has been

702
00:24:34,005 --> 00:24:35,440
going by Dr. Christine Johnson

703
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,510
for over 14 years despite the

704
00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:39,244
fact that Christine Johnson only

705
00:24:39,244 --> 00:24:39,911
just got her doctorate last

706
00:24:39,911 --> 00:24:43,748
year.

707
00:24:43,748 --> 00:24:45,750
Not once in any public record or

708
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:47,385
public gathering during her

709
00:24:47,385 --> 00:24:49,888
eight years superintendent of

710
00:24:49,888 --> 00:24:50,689
schools did Johnson try to set

711
00:24:50,689 --> 00:24:55,861
the record straight.

712
00:24:55,861 --> 00:24:57,529
Now, and doctorate is not a

713
00:24:57,529 --> 00:24:58,230
requirement if you want to be

714
00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:59,431
superintendent of schools in

715
00:24:59,431 --> 00:25:00,098
Hoboken, although you would

716
00:25:00,098 --> 00:25:02,801
think it would be.

717
00:25:02,801 --> 00:25:05,003
You have to assume honesty is a

718
00:25:05,003 --> 00:25:07,272
requirement, and in that regard

719
00:25:07,272 --> 00:25:10,075
students of Hoboken, your

720
00:25:10,075 --> 00:25:10,709
superintendent gets an F.

721
00:25:10,709 --> 00:25:11,443
And that is roundtable for this

722
00:25:11,443 --> 00:25:15,313
week.

723
00:25:15,313 --> 00:25:16,047
Charles, Matt, John, good to see

724
00:25:16,047 --> 00:25:17,782
you.

725
00:25:17,782 --> 00:25:19,784
Thanks to assemblyman Brian

726
00:25:19,784 --> 00:25:22,821
Bergen for joining us.

727
00:25:22,821 --> 00:25:23,688
You can follow this show on

728
00:25:23,688 --> 00:25:24,523
Twitter and subscribe to the

729
00:25:24,523 --> 00:25:27,192
YouTube channel for more stuff,

730
00:25:27,192 --> 00:25:27,893
including live streams and web

731
00:25:27,893 --> 00:25:29,427
extras.

732
00:25:29,427 --> 00:25:30,095
We are off next week for the

733
00:25:30,095 --> 00:25:34,165
holiday.

734
00:25:34,165 --> 00:25:35,634
From all the crew here at the

735
00:25:35,634 --> 00:25:36,268
Gateway Center, thanks for

736
00:25:36,268 --> 00:25:38,904
watching.

737
00:25:38,904 --> 00:25:40,805
>> Major funding for Reporters

738
00:25:40,805 --> 00:25:42,607
Roundtable with David Cruz is

739
00:25:42,607 --> 00:25:45,577
provided by our WJ Barnabas

740
00:25:45,577 --> 00:25:46,211
health, the state healthy

741
00:25:46,211 --> 00:25:49,481
together.

742
00:25:49,481 --> 00:25:50,215
And JM insurance group, serving

743
00:25:50,215 --> 00:25:52,951
the insurance needs of New

744
00:25:52,951 --> 00:25:54,219
Jersey residents and businesses

745
00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:57,355
for more than 100 years.

746
00:25:57,355 --> 00:25:58,089
Promotional support provided by

747
00:25:58,089 --> 00:26:01,192
New Jersey business magazine,

748
00:26:01,192 --> 00:26:01,960
the magazine of the New Jersey

749
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,196
business and industry

750
00:26:05,196 --> 00:26:05,797
Association reporting to

751
00:26:05,797 --> 00:26:07,132
executive and legislative

752
00:26:07,132 --> 00:26:08,433
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753
00:26:08,433 --> 00:26:11,436
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754
00:26:11,436 --> 00:26:14,339
And by Politico's New Jersey

755
00:26:14,339 --> 00:26:16,174
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756
00:26:16,174 --> 00:26:16,875
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758
00:26:17,876 --> 00:26:18,209
♪