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♪

>>> THE RESTRUCTURING OF THE

LEGISLATURE HAS PUT NEW CHAIRS

AT THE HEAD OF SEVERAL KEY

COMMITTEES, NONE MORE IMPORTANT

THAN EDUCATION.

HI, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO

"REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE," I'M

DAVID CRUZ, ALONG WITH A FINE

BAND OF STATE HOUSE JOURNALISTS,

INCLUDING STACIE SHERMAN, DEPUTY

MANAGING EDITOR FOR U.S. BUREAUS

FOR BLOOMBERG, KATHERINE

LANDREGEN, POLITICO, AND THE

BUDGET AND FINANCE WRITER FOR NJ

SPOTLIGHT NEWS.

THEY'LL BE JOINING ME IN A BIT

BUT WE START TODAY WITH THE NEW

CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE EDUCATION

COMMITTEE, VIN GOPAL OF MONMOUTH

COUNTY.

SENATOR, WELCOME TO "REPORTERS

ROUNDTABLE."

GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, DAVID.

>> SO, THIS IS REALLY BEEN THE

TOUGHEST TWO SCHOOL YEARS IN

MEMORY.

SO MANY CHALLENGES FACED BY KIDS

AND PARENTS AND EDUCATIONAL

STAFF.

WHERE HAS THE PANDEMIC HIT

HARDEST IN YOUR MIND?

>> DEFINITELY LEARNING LOSS,

KIDS NOT BEING IN THE CLASSROOM,

EVEN DURING THAT SHORT TIME

PERIOD WHEN NOBODY WAS IN REALLY

HAD A BIG EFFECT.

A CHILD EVEN NOT HAVING THEIR

GRADUATION OR PROM CAN HAVE

MENTAL HEALTH IMPACTS.

WE'VE SEEN THAT IN EARLY

STUDIES, AND ESPECIALLY SPECIAL

NEEDS FAMILIES, THEY PROBABLY

HAVE THE HARDEST TIME DURING THE

PANDEMIC, AS THAT LEARNING LOSS

IS GOING TO BE HARDER FOR THEIR

KIDS TO RECOVER MORE THAN

ANYBODY ELSE'S.

>> YEAH, WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE

LACK OF ACCESS TO REMOTE

LEARNING.

HAS THAT SHRUNK?

>> YEAH, WELL, LOOK, I THINK

IT'S SUPER IMPORTANT TO -- AND

I'M A BIG SUPPORTER OF IN-PERSON

EDUCATION.

AND I THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE THAT

WORK.

I DON'T KNOW IF REMOTE LEARNING

MAKES SENSE, ESPECIALLY AS WE'VE

SEEN THIS LAST VARIANT NOT AS

STRENUOUS AS PAST ONES, GOD

WILLING, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO

CONTINUE TO PUSH FOR IN-PERSON

EDUCATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

>> SO, IN YOUR MIND, I MEAN, IS

IT SO TERRIBLE THAT WE CAN'T

EVEN, LIKE, SAY THIS WEEKEND,

THERE'S GOING TO BE A BIG

SNOWSTORM, LET'S SAY THAT

HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE

WEEK.

ARE WE UNPREPARED ENOUGH TO,

SAY, HAVE A SNOW DAY THAT

HAPPENS TO BE EVERYBODY HOME BUT

STILL IN SCHOOL?

>> YEAH, SO, WE'RE WORKING ON

SOME THINGS RIGHT NOW IN THE

SENATE EDUCATION COMMITTEE

RELATED TO THAT, AND I THINK WE

HAVE TO START BEING CREATIVE NOW

AS IT RELATES TO SNOW DAYS

MOVING FORWARD AFTER THE

PANDEMIC.

I DO ALSO THINK, YOU KNOW, LOOK,

ONE OF EVERYBODY'S POSITIVE

MEMORIES GROWING UP IS THAT SNOW

DAY, AND THAT IS FOR A LOT OF

KIDS, SO I DO THINK IT IS --

THERE'S A GOOD THING FOR A KID

TO HAVE A SNOW DAY AND BUNDLE UP

AND GO OUT INTO THE SNOW.

SO IT'S TRYING TO FIND THAT

BALANCE.

>> WE ARE SEEING FUNDAMENTAL

CHANGES IN HOW SCHOOLS DO

BUSINESS, SOME HAVE CANCELED

MIDTERMS, OTHERS HAVE ADJUSTED

THE WAY THEY'RE EVALUATING KIDS

WITH GRADES.

IT SEEMS UNREASONABLE TO THINK

THAT WE'RE JUST GOING TO GO BACK

TO NORMAL ONCE EMERGENCY

RESTRICTIONS ARE FINALLY LIFTED,

RIGHT?

NORMAL IS NOT AROUND THE CORNER.

>> THIS, UNFORTUNATELY, IS A

VERSION OF THE NEW NORMAL, AND I

THINK WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW

TO ADAPT AND DO THE BEST WE CAN.

OUR TEACHERS RIGHT NOW, AND

ADMINISTRATORS, ARE DOING AN

INCREDIBLE JOB UNDER VERY

DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.

I CAN'T IMAGINE, YOU KNOW, YOU

HAVE PARENTS THAT ARE SCREAMING

ABOUT MASKS OR DON'T WEAR MASKS

OR ANY OTHER ISSUE.

THESE EDUCATORS, UNDER VERY

DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES, NOTHING

THAT THEY DID WRONG, NO PAY

INCREASE FOR THEM AS THEY'RE

GOING THROUGH THIS, REALLY HAVE

DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB AND

CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

>> LOT OF STAFF SHORTAGES STILL

BEING REPORTED AROUND THE STATE.

HOW TERRIBLE IS THAT SITUATION?

>> IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, EVEN

FINDING SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS HAS

BEEN DIFFICULT, SO WE HAVE TO DO

A LOT.

I HAD A CALL YESTERDAY WITH THE

CHAIRWOMAN OF THE ASSEMBLY

EDUCATION COMMITTEE, MY

COUNTERPART, AS WELL AS MY

PREDECESSOR, NOW MAJORITY LEADER

RUIZ, AND THEY HAD DONE SOME

REALLY INNOVATIVE STUFF ON

TEACHER RECRUITMENT.

I PLAN TO HAVE SOMETHING OUT

VERY SHORTLY THAT SPECIFICALLY

LOOKS AT INCREASING TEACHER PAY

AND HOPEFULLY CAN BE A REAL

MODEL HERE AND REALLY WORK ON

RECRUITING A LOT MORE EDUCATORS

TO AN INCREDIBLE PROFESSION.

>> SCHOOL FUNDING IS THAT

800-POUND GORILLA SITTING OUT

THERE.

I GOT ABOUT A MINUTE.

YOU WANT TO FIX THE SCHOOL

FUNDING FOR ME -- FOR US TODAY?

>> SO, WE GOT A COUPLE THINGS

THAT WE HAVE TO DO.

WE HAVE TO START LOOKING AT HOW

OUR SCHOOLS ARE FUNDED, AND IT'S

FUNDED PRIMARILY ON PROPERTY

TAXES, AND I THINK IT MAKES

SENSE TO START LOOKING AT AN

INCOME TAX FORMULA.

WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT

EXTRAORDINARY SPECIAL EDUCATION

FUNDING.

WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT SCHOOL

DISTRICT REGIONALIZATION, AND

WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK

AT FIXING THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN

OUR 600-PLUS SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF HVAC,

PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, ROOFING

ISSUES, THOSE ARE ALL SOME OF

THE BIG CHALLENGES AND THEY ALL

RELATE DIRECTLY TO SCHOOL

FUNDING.

>> HOW WOULD AN INCOME TAX MODEL

BE DIFFERENT FROM THE CURRENT

SYSTEM?

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, ONE WOULD USE

INCOME TAX AND THE OTHER USES

REAL ESTATE TAXES, BUT WHAT'S

THE NET DIFFERENCE?

WHO'S AFFECTED BY THAT THE MOST?

>> YEAH, WE'RE IN THE EARLY

PROCESS OF LOOKING AT THIS, AND

IT WOULD REALLY HELP PEOPLE WHO

ARE SENIORS AND THOSE WHO ARE ON

A FIXED INCOME, ESPECIALLY THOSE

WHO NO LONGER HAVE KIDS IN THE

SCHOOL SYSTEM.

IT WOULD HELP THEM TRY TO STAY

IN NEW JERSEY, NOT MOVE TO

FLORIDA OR THE CAROLINAS, AND

KEEP IT AFFORDABLE FOR THEM.

WE'VE GOT FOLKS, DAVID, WHO ARE

PAYING $12,000 OR $13,000 IN

PROPERTY TAXES ON THE SAME HOUSE

THEY'VE OWNED, AND IT'S VERY,

VERY UNAFFORDABLE FOR THEM, SO

LOOKING AT INCOME TAXES, WHICH

WOULD AFFECT THOSE WHO ARE AT

THE HIGHEST INCOME BRACKETS, I

THINK, MIGHT BE A MORE EFFECTIVE

WAY TO LOOK ON HOW WE PAY OUR

SCHOOLS.

>> I'M RUNNING OUT OF TIME, BUT

I DID WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE

SCHOOLS DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY,

BESET BY SCANDAL, BASICALLY OUT

OF MONEY.

WE JUST SAW VOTERS IN HOBOKEN

REJECT A LOCAL EFFORT TO BUILD A

NEW SCHOOL FOR $240 MILLION.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO BUILD NEW

SCHOOLS IN NEW JERSEY?

HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR

THAT?

>> YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK

AT THE FEDERAL FUNDS.

THE STATE IS SITTING ON

$3.2 BILLION IN FEDERAL FUNDS

RIGHT NOW AND I HAD A

CONVERSATION WITH THE GOVERNOR'S

CHIEF OF STAFF LAST WEEK ABOUT

LOOKING AT USING SOME OF THESE

FUNDS TO UPDATE OUR 600 SCHOOL

DISTRICTS.

THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE

SDA, MANNY DE SILVA, LIVES IN MY

DISTRICT.

I THINK HE'S A GOOD MAN.

I THINK HE'S DOING A GOOD JOB

AND I THINK WE NEED TO TRY TO

WORK WITH HIM TO SEE HOW WE CAN

EMPOWER SDA.

>> STEVE SWEENEY, THE FORMER

SENATE PRESIDENT, SAID THE SDA

HAD TO GO.

I ASSUME YOU'RE NOT OF THAT

MINDSET.

>> NO.

I'M NOT.

BUT I DO THINK THERE WERE

CHALLENGES THERE, MAYBE A NAME

CHANGE MAY BE WARRANTED, MAYBE A

REBRANDING EFFORT, BUT I DO

THINK THAT THE CURRENT FOLKS

WORKING AT SDA HAVE DONE A

REALLY GOOD JOB, AT LEAST IN MY

DEALINGS WITH THEM THIS PAST

YEAR.

>> HOW DIFFICULT IS IT GOING TO

BE TO SUCCEED AT CREATING SOME

SORT OF SCHOOL CONSOLIDATION,

WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY IS

GOING TO BE NECESSARY TO BRING

OVERALL COSTS DOWN?

>> YOU KNOW, WE MADE IT

VOLUNTARY AND I THINK IT NEEDS

TO START BECOMING FORCED IN SOME

EFFORTS, ESPECIALLY AS IT

RELATES TO HEALTHCARE SERVICES,

WASTE MANAGEMENT, SNOW REMOVAL,

I.T., COMMUNICATIONS.

WE CAN'T HAVE 600 DIFFERENT

ENTITIES ALL DOING THEIR OWN

THINGS.

I'VE GOT A REPORT HERE IN ONE

SCHOOL DISTRICT I'M SEEING WHERE

THEIR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS HAVE

GONE UP MORE THAN 20% IN THE

LAST 5 YEARS WHILE THEIR

ENROLLMENT HAS GONE DOWN.

WE'VE GOT SO MANY DIFFERENT

CHALLENGES, BUT I THINK THAT

CONSOLIDATING SERVICES IS THE

WAY TO GO.

>> I SAVED MY TOUGHEST QUESTION

FOR THE END HERE.

THIS SCHOOL DESEGREGATION SUIT,

IT'S HEADED TO COURT IN MARCH, I

THINK.

IF THE REMEDIES INCLUDE

CONSOLIDATED DISTRICTS OR MAYBE

EVEN BUSSING, HOW DOES THAT

HAPPEN?

>> YEAH, WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE

WATCHING THAT CAREFULLY.

IT'S WITHOUT A DOUBT, NEW JERSEY

HAS A BIG CHALLENGE AS IT COMES

TO SEGREGATED SCHOOLS.

WE SEE IT ACROSS OUR 565 TOWNS,

AND I THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE

THAT THE NEW JERSEY LEGISLATURE

NEEDS TO FACE OUTSIDE OF THIS

FEDERAL LAWSUIT THAT'S IN FRONT

OF US.

SO, THIS IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO

DEAL WITH.

WE ARE THE MOST DIVERSE STATE IN

THE COUNTRY, AND WE SHOULD NOT

HAVE SOME OF THE MOST SEGREGATED

SCHOOLS.

>> ALL RIGHT, VIN GOPAL IS THE

NEW CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE

EDUCATION COMMITTEE.

SENATOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, DAVID.

>> ALL RIGHT, LET'S BRING IN OUR

PANEL OF JOURNALISTIC SMARTIES.

STACIE SHERMAN, KATHERINE

LANDERGAN AND JOHN.

JUST HEARING SENATOR GOPAL TALK

ABOUT THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA

AND THE SDA, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AT STAKE

HERE.

WHAT'D YOU THINK OF GOPAL'S

ANSWERS?

>> I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, HE

HAS A LOT OF DIFFERENT, FRESH

IDEAS, BUT IT'S STILL EARLY,

RIGHT?

I MEAN, HE JUST TOOK THE JOB

OVER FROM TERESA RUIZ, AND YOU

KNOW, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A

LITTLE WHILE FOR HIM TO FIGURE

OUT AND FLESH OUT HIS AGENDA AND

KIND OF DO IT UNDER THE

DIRECTION OF RUIZ AND I'M

INTERESTED TO SEE HOW THEY'LL

WORK TOGETHER AND HOW THAT

DYNAMIC WILL PLAY OUT.

>> STACIE, I FEEL LIKE THERE

WERE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FLYING

AROUND THE STATE FROM THE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

NONE OF THAT APPEARED TO BE FOR

SCHOOL BUILDINGS.

IS THE STATE GOING TO HAVE TO GO

BORROW MONEY FOR SCHOOLS NOW?

LET ME REPHRASE THAT.

THE STATE IS GOING TO HAVE TO GO

BORROW MONEY FOR SCHOOLS NOW,

RIGHT?

>> IT'S VERY POSSIBLE.

THEY DON'T HAVE JUST BILLIONS,

YOU KNOW, FOR SCHOOL

CONSTRUCTION AND SCHOOLS ARE IN

DIRE NEED OF REPAIR AND LOCAL

RESIDENTS AREN'T WILLING TO HAVE

THEIR TAXES, THEIR LOCAL TAXES

INCREASE TO PAY FOR IT AS WE

JUST SAW THIS WEEK IN HOBOKEN

WHERE THEY SHOT DOWN A

$241 MILLION BOND PROPOSAL THAT

WOULD HAVE BEEN ENTIRELY FUNDED

BY TAXPAYERS.

SO, THE -- I THINK THE FEDERAL

AND THE STATE GOVERNMENTS ARE

GOING TO HAVE TO STEP IN AND

SPEND MONEY.

>> I MEAN, THAT SCHOOL IN

HOBOKEN, THAT'S JUST DOWN THE

ROAD FROM ME, SOUNDED LIKE WHAT

CORY BOOKER USED TO CALL

CATHEDRALS OF LEARNING WITH, YOU

KNOW, TWO SWIMMING POOLS, LABS

AND ALL OF THAT.

YOU KNOW, $200 MILLION SCHOOLS,

IF EVERYBODY WANTS A

$200 MILLION SCHOOL, HOW ARE WE

GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD THAT,

STACIE?

>> WELL, HOBOKEN IS A UNIQUE

ISSUE.

I MEAN, THEY'RE TRYING TO LURE

AND KEEP THE WEALTHY FAMILIES

THAT ARE SENDING THEIR KIDS TO

CHARTER SCHOOLS AND PRIVATE

SCHOOLS.

THEY WANT THEM GOING TO THE

PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO, THERE'S A BALANCE, AND SO

THIS IS WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TRYING

TO DO IS OFFER AMENITIES LIKE

THIS IN ORDER TO GET THE KIDS

BACK INTO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL

SYSTEM AND SHOW THEM THAT THEY

CAN GET EVERYTHING FROM A

PRIVATE SCHOOL AT A PUBLIC

SCHOOL.

SO, YOU SEE BOTH POINTS AS A

BALANCE THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO

STRIKE, AND THIS JUST WAS NOT

PALATABLE FOR VOTERS.

>> THIS REMINDS ME, WATCHING

THIS B ROLL, REMINDS ME OF HOW

PEOPLE WALK FUNNY IN COMPUTER

ANIMATIONS.

SO, I WANT TO SPEND SOME TIME

TALKING ABOUT BUDGETS AND THE

ECONOMY.

JOHN, IT'S BEGINNING TO LOOK A

LOT LIKE BUDGET SEASON.

THE GOVERNOR'S ANNUAL BUDGET

ADDRESS IS COMING IN JUST A FEW

WEEKS.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE

SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION TO?

>> YOU KNOW, THIS YEAR, I THINK

THE CLOSEST -- WE'RE ALL

WATCHING REVENUES BECAUSE AS

REVENUES GO, SO GOES SPENDING

AND SO ONE OF THE BIG THINGS IS

THE BUDGET'S HAD A LOT OF TAIL

WIND OVER THE FIRST HALF OF THE

FISCAL YEAR AND THAT USUALLY

MEANS WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE FOR

THE SECOND HALF BUT MORE MONEY

GETS COLLECTED IN THE SECOND

HALF SO WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO

STILL AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THE

KEY WILL BE WHERE THEY FORESEE,

BECAUSE REMEMBER, THIS FISCAL

YEAR STARTS IN JULY AND GOES ALL

THE WAY TO THE END OF NEXT JUNE.

SO THEY HAVE TO KIND OF PUT OUT

THE CRYSTAL BALL AND SEE WHERE

THE ECONOMY'S GOING TO GO, ALL

THE WAY OUT, MORE THAN 12 MONTHS

FROM NOW EVEN.

AND SO THAT'S A DIFFICULT TASK

COMING OUT OF A PANDEMIC.

IT'S BEEN A REALLY SWIFT

RECOVERY IN SOME WAYS BECAUSE OF

ALL THE FEDERAL INTERVENTION AND

NEW JERSEY STILL HAS LIKE

$3 BILLION IN FEDERAL MONEY TO

SPEND, EVEN AFTER ALREADY

SPENDING ABOUT $3 BILLION, SO

AWASH IN REVENUE RIGHT NOW, BUT

THE TRICK IS FIGURING OUT WHERE

IT'S GOING TO BE AT THE END OF

THE FISCAL YEAR THAT DOESN'T

START UNTIL JULY, AND SO THAT'S

THE TRICKY THING.

THE CURRENT BUDGET IS BALANCED

WITH SURPLUS, BASICALLY, BUDGET

RESERVES WERE USED TO BALANCE

THE CURRENT BUDGET.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT EVERY YEAR OR

YOU RUN OUT OF SURPLUS, AND YOU

NEED A SURPLUS, SO THAT'S SORT

OF THE BIGGEST THING TO LOOK AT

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO THE

GOVERNOR AND LAWMAKERS PROPOSE

AS SOMETHING NEW, IF ANYTHING,

IN RESPONSE TO THIS ELECTION

WHERE EVERYBODY SAID, YOU KNOW,

NEW JERSEY'S NOT AFFORDABLE, AND

SO ANY NEW, SHINY TAX RELIEF

MEASURE THAT GETS ROLLED OUT TO

TRY AND ADDRESS THAT

AFFORDABILITY ISSUE, I MEAN,

LAST YEAR, THEY DID UP TO $500

TAX REBATES, LITERALLY SENT

CHECKS TO PEOPLE, AND THAT

DIDN'T SEEM TO MOVE THE NEEDLE,

SO THAT'S ANOTHER THING I THINK

THAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE.

>> YEAH, AND HOW IT IMPACTS THE

BUDGET, RIGHT?

BECAUSE IF AFFORDABILITY IS NOT

GOING TO COME FROM THE STORE

DOWN THE BLOCK, YOU KNOW,

LOWERING ITS PRICE FOR A BGLOCK

OF MILK.

AFFORDABILITY MEANS MY TAXES,

THE COST OF TRANSPORTATION,

ET CETERA, RIGHT?

>> I THINK IT'S ALL OF THOSE

THINGS, TO BE HONEST, AND I

THINK TAXES, OBVIOUSLY, PLAY A

BIG ROLE, AND MAYBE PEOPLE FEEL

LIKE THEY CAN INFLUENCE THAT

BECAUSE THEY CAN VOTE PEOPLE OUT

OF OFFICE OR, YOU KNOW, AS WE

JUST SAW, THE SENATE PRESIDENT

LOST HIS SEAT IN THIS MOST

RECENT ELECTION.

AND SO, MAYBE ONE OF THE THINGS

THAT'S EASIEST TO DO BUT MORE

THAN TEN YEARS AGO, JOHN CORZINE

CAME UP WITH PROPERTY TAX

REBATES AND HE GOT VOTED OUT OF

OFFICE SO IT'S ALWAYS A TRICKY

THING, AND YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE

TO SEE WHAT -- IF THERE IS A

SHINY NEW OBJECT OR IF THERE'S

SOME OTHER WAY THAT PEOPLE CAN

FEEL LIKE EITHER THEY'RE GETTING

A BREAK OR GETTING A GOOD DEAL.

>> RIGHT, AND IT'S ALL GOING TO

RUN THROUGH THE STATE BANK.

KATHERINE, IS THE PROCESS -- THE

BUDGET PROCESS GOING TO BE ANY

DIFFERENT THIS YEAR?

MOST OF THE HEARINGS WERE

VIRTUAL LAST GO ROUND.

WILL WE BE SEEING FUNDING

PITCHES IN-PERSON THIS TIME

AROUND?

>> WE DON'T HAVE THE SCHEDULE

YET, BUT I WOULD IMAGINE THAT

YES, IT WILL BE MORE IN-PERSON.

I THINK THE ONE THING TO REALLY

WATCH IN TERMS OF THIS BUDGET

PROCESS IS I RECENTLY SPOKE WITH

THE NEW SENATE PRESIDENT,

SENATOR SCUTARI AND HE HAS

INDICATED THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO

TRY TO NOT HAVE A RUSH AT THE

END OF THINGS, AND SO IF HE'S

ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT,LIKE AT

THE END OF BUDGET SEASON, THERE

ISN'T THIS MAD DASH TO NEGOTIATE

AND PASS BILLS, THAT WOULD BE A

MASSIVE SHIFT IN WHAT WE'VE SEEN

IN TRENTON.

>> DO WE KNOW WHERE ALL THE

MONEY'S GONE?

I MEAN, THERE'S $3.2 BILLION

LYING AROUND.

HAS A LOT OF IT BEEN SPENT, OR

IS IT JUST WAITING FOR

GUIDELINES FOR USE?

>> IN TERMS OF THE FEDERAL

FUNDS?

>> THE FEDERAL MONEY, YEAH.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S

STILL A LOT OF IT HAS YET TO BE

SPENT.

AND SO THAT IS DEFINITELY

SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO -- I

MEAN, A GOOD PORTION HAS BEEN

SPENT BUT THERE'S STILL MONEY

REMAINING, AND SO THAT'S

DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT'S

GOING TO BE HASHED OUT.

>> IF THAT FEDERAL MONEY'S NOT

AROUND, THE GOVERNOR'S GOING TO

HAVE TO LOOK FOR SOME PLACE ELSE

TO GET MONEY, BUT HE SAYS NO NEW

TAXES.

THAT KIND OF DEPENDS ON THE

ROBUST ECONOMY, I THINK.

DO WE HAVE ONE OF THOSE IN NEW

JERSEY, STACIE?

A ROBUST ECONOMY?

>> WE ARE DEFINITELY DOING

BETTER THAN WE DID LAST YEAR.

A YEAR AGO, I WOULD SAY.

WE ARE ON OUR WAY UP.

IT'S JUST HOW QUICKLY WE GET

THERE.

OUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE HAS

IMPROVED FROM A YEAR AGO, AND

THERE'S MORE JOBS, BUT I THINK

WE'VE STILL -- WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN

TO THE POINT WE WERE

PRE-PANDEMIC, SO I THINK THAT'S

THE KEY LEVEL THERE TO RECOVER

ALL THE JOBS LOST IN THE

PANDEMIC AND THEN GROW FROM

THERE.

>> SO YOU'RE SAYING JOBS IS THE

BOTTOM LINE, THE KEY INDICATOR,

AT LEAST FOR THE STATE'S

ECONOMY?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

WE GOT TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO

WORK.

THAT'S RESTAURANTS NEED IT,

BUSINESSES NEED EMPLOYEES, BUT

THEY ALSO HAVE TO KEEP THEIR

LABOR COSTS DOWN, AND THEY HAVE

TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO STAY

OPEN, SO IT'S ALL ABOUT JOBS AND

GETTING THESE BUSINESSES BACK TO

NORMAL AGAIN.

>> THAT'S PART OF THE CONFLICT,

RIGHT?

SO MANY PEOPLE QUITTING THEIR

JOBS BECAUSE THEY WANT A

DIFFERENT LIFESTYLE, AND

BUSINESS SAYING, HEY, WE NEED

MORE EMPLOYEES, BUT WE DON'T

WANT TO PAY ANY MORE FOR THEM.

THAT'S -- GO AHEAD.

>> THAT'S THE BALANCE RIGHT

THERE, RIGHT?

I HAVE BEEN AT THE SAME JOB FOR

25 YEARS, SO I'M -- I DON'T KNOW

THIS -- SO MANY PEOPLE ARE -- I

DON'T KNOW THAT ABILITY TO JUST

QUIT LIKE THAT OR TO JUST CHANGE

AND SAY THAT, SO I THINK IT'S

INTERESTING.

THERE IS A BALANCE THERE.

SORRY, I'M LOSING MY VOICE.

THERE'S A BALANCE THERE BETWEEN,

YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH YOU PAY A

WORKER AND WHETHER IT'S WORTH

IT.

>> JOHN, NATIONALLY, WE'VE SEEN

CLOSE TO 6% GROWTH OVER THE

YEAR, ALMOST 7% FOR THE QUARTER.

HOW DOES OUR ECONOMY MEASURE UP

TO THAT?

NEW JERSEY'S ECONOMY.

>> IF YOU'RE REFERRING TO GDP

GROWTH, YOU KNOW, NEW JERSEY'S

HAD SOME PRETTY GOOD GDP GROWTH

AS WELL, BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN

MIND THAT SOME OF THIS IS BEING

MEASURED OFF OF A TIME WHEN THE

ECONOMY WAS LARGELY SHUT DOWN ON

PURPOSE, AND SO THE GOVERNMENT'S

BEEN VERY ACTIVE IN TERMS OF

INTERVENTION OVER THE -- REALLY

GOING BACK WELL OVER A YEAR,

SENDING OUT STIMULUS PAYMENTS TO

INDIVIDUALS, BUMPING UP

UNEMPLOYMENT.

THE FED HAS BEEN REALLY ACTIVE

WHEN IT COMES TO FINANCIAL

MARKETS, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE

EFFORTS, REALLY, SINCE THE BIDEN

ADMINISTRATION TOOK OVER, HAVE

BEEN VERY AGGRESSIVE IN TERMS OF

TRYING TO PREVENT A REALLY DEEP

RECESSION, AND SO WE'RE SEEING,

YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T HAPPENING

JUST ORGANICALLY OFF OF A NORMAL

BASE, YOU KNOW?

THIS IS BEING MEASURED OFF A

DIFFICULT SITUATION WITH A LOT

OF FEDERAL INTERVENTION.

THAT ALL SAID, YOU KNOW, GROWTH,

YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO SEE

GROWTH.

BUT THAT'S JUST ONE INDICATOR.

THE GDP NUMBER.

AND NEW JERSEY'S SEEN SOME

GROWTH AS WELL.

UNEMPLOYMENT IS THE OTHER BIG

INDICATOR, AND AS STACIE NOTED,

IN NEW JERSEY, WE'RE BEHIND THE

FEDERAL UNEMPLOYMENT RATE AND

OUR PACE OF RECOVERY, WE HAVE

HAD A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT OVER

THE LAST YEAR, BUT OUR PACE OF

JOB RECOVERY HAS TRAILED THE

PACE OF THE NATIONAL RECOVERY AS

WELL.

NOW, THERE'S ROOM STILL TO GO ON

THAT, BUT ONE IMPORTANT THING TO

NOTE IS WE CAN SOMETIMES HAVE

TWO ECONOMIES, RIGHT?

I MEAN, THERE'S HOW PEOPLE --

PROFESSIONALS, UNFORTUNATELY,

GOT IMPACTED, THEY CAN WORK FROM

HOME AND MAYBE NOT HAVE FELT THE

SAME PINCH THAT PEOPLE IN THE

LOWER WAGE POSITIONS AND LOWER

INCOME BRACKETS, IT SEEMS LIKE

THE RECOVERY THAT STILL HAS TO

HAPPEN, UNFORTUNATELY, IS AMONG

THE PEOPLE WHO NEED THAT

RECOVERY THE MOST.

AND SO, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL

ABOUT SAYING, YOU KNOW, NEW

JERSEY'S IN THIS GREAT PLACE.

NEW JERSEY'S HAD A LOT OF

IMPROVEMENT OVER THE LAST 12

MONTHS, FOR SURE, WHETHER YOU'RE

TALKING ABOUT JOBS OR GDP

GROWTH, BUT YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T

LOSE SIGHT OF THOSE THAT ARE

STILL TRYING TO RECOVER.

>> KATHERINE, SMALL BUSINESS

SAYS THEY'RE HURTING FOR STAFF,

PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THEIR JOBS.

A LOT OF PLACES EXPERIMENTING

WITH AUTOMATION AND RESTAURANTS

CLOSING THEIR DINING ROOMS IN

FAVOR OF CURBSIDE PICKUP.

WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE?

ARE WE GOING TO LOOK BACK IN A

DECADE AND SAY, WOW, THAT WAS A

PARADIGM SHIFT BACK IN 2022?

>> RIGHT.

I MEAN, THEY'RE CALLING IT THE

GREAT RESIGNATION FOR A REASON,

RIGHT?

WE'RE JUST SEEING SO MANY PEOPLE

LEAVE THEIR JOBS, PARTICULARLY

IN THE SERVICE SECTOR WHERE

PEOPLE ARE KIND OF JUST FED UP

AND THEY JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY

SAY THAT THEY'RE DONE.

THIS HAS BEEN REALLY HARD FOR

BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, AS YOU

NOTED, WITH STAFFING.

YOU KNOW, AND THEY FACE A LOT OF

OTHER CHALLENGES.

ONE BIG ISSUE IN THE BUSINESS

COMMUNITY HAS BEEN TAX INCREASES

AS A RESULT OF THE DEPLETING

UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FUND, SO

THERE'S A LOT GOING ON HERE, AND

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS

BEEN A LOT OF RELIEF FROM THE

MURPHY ADMINISTRATION, YOU KNOW,

FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT

BUSINESSES JUST SAY, YOU KNOW,

IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO STAFF, YOU

KNOW, TABLES.

I REMEMBER I WAS AT A RESTAURANT

RECENTLY, AND THERE WAS ONE

SERVER COVERING, LIKE, FIVE

TABLES AND SHE HAD JUST STARTED,

HADN'T BEEN A WAITRESS BEFORE,

AND I THINK THAT'S EM WHBLEMATIF

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN RESTAURANTS

EVERYWHERE.

>> YEAH.

JOHN, YOU'VE BEEN TO MORE

PENSION BOARD MEETINGS THAN

ANYBODY ON THIS PANEL FOR SURE.

I SAW A REPORT THIS WEEK THAT

SAYS THE FUND MADE UP OF MONEY

FROM PUBLIC EMPLOYEES PENSIONS

IS UNDERPERFORMING.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO STATE

RESIDENTS?

>> WELL, THE THING TO KEEP IN

MIND IS PENSIONS IN NEW JERSEY,

FOR PUBLIC WORKERS, SO, THESE

ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOME SORT OF

GOVERNMENT JOB, ARE FUNDED BY

CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THE WORKERS

MAKE BY CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THEIR

TAXPAYER EMPLOYERS MAKE, AND

THEN ALL OF THE ASSETS ARE

INVESTED IN, YOU KNOW, STOCKS

AND BONDS AND OTHER TYPES OF

INVESTMENTS TO HOPEFULLY GAIN

SOME YEAR OVER YEAR GROWTH, AND

SO WHEN WE SAY UNDERPERFORMING,

THEY HAVE AN ASSUMED RATE, WHICH

IS BASICALLY WHAT THEY THINK

THESE INVESTMENTS WILL GENERATE

ON AN ANNUAL BASIS IN TERMS OF

EXTRA REVENUE, SO IT EASES THE

BURDEN A LITTLE BIT ON EMPLOYEES

AND TAXPAYERS, AND LAST FISCAL

YEAR, WE HAD A BANNER YEAR FOR

INVESTMENT RETURNS, ALMOST 30%

YEAR OVER YEAR, WHICH IS, YOU

KNOW, AT LEAST IN THE TWO

DECADES A RECORD.

THEY'VE COME BACK DOWN TO EARTH,

ACCORDING TO THE MOST RECENT

FIGURES THAT WERE REVIEWED.

THESE THINGS TEND TO GO UP AND

DOWN OVER THE FIVE AND TEN-YEAR

RUNS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE RIGHT

AROUND THAT ASSUMED RIGATE.

IN FACT, OVER THE LAST FIVE

YEARS, ANNUALIZED, IT'S ABOVE

IT.

SO WITH NUMBERS, YOU CAN LOOK AT

THEM IN A MILLION WAYS AND, YOU

KNOW, IN THE SHORT-TERM, THAT

WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A CONCERN,

BUT THE BIG PICTURE, AT LEAST IN

TERMS OF INVESTMENT RETURNS, YOU

KNOW, THE PENSION FUND IS STILL

IN A DEEP HOLE BECAUSE THE STATE

DID NOT FUND IT PROPERLY FOR

MORE THAN TWO DECADES, BUT IN

TERMS OF THE LATEST INVESTMENT

RETURNS, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE

BELOW THE ASSUMED RATE, BUT

STILL HOLDING ON IN THE BLACK.

>> JOHN, STACIE, KATHERINE, GOOD

TO SEE YOU ALL.

THANKS FOR HANGING OUT WITH US

TODAY.

THAT WAS "ROUNDTABLE" FOR THE

WEEK.

THANKS ALSO TO SENATOR VIN

GOPAL.

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