THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN OFF THE
RECORD STARTS RIGHT AFTER THIS.

ON THE OTR PANEL WE HAVE KATHY
GRAY AND BILL BELLGER, ALONG

WITH EMILY LAWLER.
A UPDATE ON ROAD FUNDING IT IS

MOVING.
AND SO ARE THE STATE BUDGETS.

LATER ON, FORMER WEATHER MAN
TURNED STATE LAWMAKER

REPRESENTATIVE GREG McMASTER
IS HERE, ALL THIS AND MORE

COMING UP RIGHT NOW "OFF THE
RECORD."

¶ .
>> GETTING THE INSIDE OUT.

IT'S "OFF THE RECORD" WITH
SENIOR CAPITAL CORRESPONDENT,

TIM SKUBICK AND HIS CAPITAL
PRESS CORE COLLEAGUES.

>> PRODUCTION FOR "OFF THE
RECORD" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY.

SERVING STATEWIDE, NATIONAL, AND
INTERNATIONAL CLIENTS FROM THEIR

OFFICES IN LANSING, DETROIT, AND
GRAND RAPIDS.

BY THE MICHIGAN FOOD AND
BEVERAGE ASSOCIATION.

IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE
PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION,

WORKING TOGETHER FOR IT'S
MEMBERS.

AND BY HAGER FOX HEATING AND AIR
CONDITIONING COMPANY.

PROVIDING SOLUTIONS AND CHOICES
FOR HOME COMFORT DURING ALL

MICHIGAN SEASONS.
HAGER FOX IN BRYANT, WHATEVER IT

TAKES.
HAGER FOX,.COM.

>> AND NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF
THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

>> THANK YOU JOE DAN VAN.
WELL, THIS STORY IS IS BEGINNING

TO SOUND LIKE A BROKEN RECORD,
BUT THEY MIGHT DO SOMETHING ON

ROADS TAKE A PEEK.
CURRENTLY THE STATE COLLECTS A

SALES TAX, AND A GAS TAX AT THE
PUMP.

THE HOUSE TRANSPORTATION
COMMITTEE IS POISED AND THE

CHAIR OF THE HOUSE TAX POLICY IS
MOVING THIS WEEK TO REDIRECT THE

SALES AND USE TAXES INTO THE
ROADS.

INSTEAD OF THE SCHOOLS AND THE
CITIES.

IT'S A $360 MILLION WIND FALL
FOR THE ROADS.

>> WE HAVE SOME OF THE HIGHEST
TAXES IN THE COUNTRY WHEN IT

COMES TO ROADS BUT MOST OF SIT
GOING TO MUNICIPALITIES AND

SCHOOLS.
>> THOSE OTHER ENTITIES WILL NOT

BE HARMED.
>> THEY WON'T BE TOUCHED IN ANY

SUCH WAY, THEY SHOULD HAVE GOOD
SUPPORT.

>> FOR OVER TWO YEARS THE STATE
TRANSPORTATION DIDN'T HAVE

WANTED TO SHIFT THE GAS TAX TO A
WHOLESALE TAX ON OIL COMPANIES.

SO THAT WHEN THE PRICE OF
GASOLINE GOES UP, THE STATE ROAD

COFFERS WOULD AUTOMATICALLY GAIN
MORE MONEY.

THIS LOBBYIST WHO OPPOSES THAT
COMPLAINTS IT IS A PRY HIKE FOR

YOU.
>> I THINK THEY WILL, AND

ULTIMATELY FUTURE INCREASES AND
THE PRICE OF GAS MEAN WILL BE

OWNED BY THE LEGISLATURE, AND
THE PEOPLE WILL NOT HAVE A VOTE.

>> CORRECT.
>> BUT THE M DOT DIRECTOR

COUNTERS THE OIL COMPANIES IN
ORDER TO REMAIN COMPETITIVE, MAY

NOT AUTOMATICALLY PASS IT ALONG.
>> IT IS NOT AUTOMATIC, ALLOWS

FOR COMPETITION OF THE OIL
COMPANIES TO DECIDE WHAT DO THEY

WANT TO PASS ON, AND WHAT DO
THEY WANT TO KEEP WITHIN MARRY

AGENTS OR THEIR COMPANY PASS A
COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE.

>> THIS DEMOCRAT SAYS THE
GOVERNOR'S OFFICE HAS REACHED

OUT TO HER.
THEY ARE LOOKING THE EVER A LOT

OF HELP TO GET A LOT MORE MONEY.
WHETHER THEY CAN PUPPET

SOMETHING TOGETHER BETWEEN NOW
AND THE ELECTION IS THE BIG

QUESTION.
>> IT IS A QUESTION THE GOVERNOR

HOPES WILL BE A YES.
THE COMMITTEES DID KICK OUT THIS

STUFF, IT IS ON THE FLOOR, LOOKS
LIKE IT WILL PASS, WHAT IS GOING

ON?
>> LIGHTENING SPEED.

THEY INTRODUCED THIS BILL THIS
PACKAGE OF BILLS LAST MONTH, AND

OR ACTUALLY IT WAS MARCH, BUT
THAT'S REALLY QUICK TO HAVE

HEARINGS, TO GET IT OUT OF
COMMITTEE, AND THEY ARE VOTING

ON IT TODAY.
AND IN THE COMMITTEE IT GOT

WIDE -- PRETTY WIDE SUPPORT.
>> THESE ARE EASY VOTES, THIS IS

RESHIFTING TAXES NOT RAISING
TAXES RIGHT?

>> RIGHT, PRETTY MUCH.
BUT I THINK IT IS AMAZING THEY

ARE DOING THIS THIS LATE IN THE
SESSION NEAR AN ELECTION.

USUALLY STUFF THIS SIGNIFICANT
IS DONE IN THE ODD YEAR, WE HAVE

DISCUSSED THIS PREVIOUSLY, AND
YOU WOULD THINK BY NOW IF THEY

HADN'T DONE IT IT WASN'T GOING
TO GET DONE.

BUT THEY ARE DOING IT, BUT I
AGREE WITH YOU.

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS NOT
$1.2 BILLION WHICH IS WHAT THE

GOVERNOR CALLED FOR.
IT IS ABOUT ONE THIRD AS MUCH, I

THINK.
AND.

>> AT THIS READ.
>> I THINK THAT NUMBER WILL GO

UP.
>> WELL, WE'LL SEE.

IF THEY GET INTO RAISING TAXES
OR FEES, THEN WE'VE GOT A REAL

DIFFERENT BALL GAME HERE.
>> WHAT'S YOUR READ IN THE

SENATE?
THE FLOOR LEADING SAYS HE IS

WORKING ON SOMETHING.
>> YEAH, SENATOR RANDY RICHARD

BILL IS SAYING THERE COULD BE
MORE MONEY, THE SENATE MAY HAVE

THEIR OWN PACKAGE THAT'S BIGGER,
BUT HONESTLY, THE HOUSE PACKAGE

SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN SO MUCH
MOVEMENT, AND I AM NOT SURE WHAT

THE APPETITE WOULD BE FOR TAKING
SOMETHING UP AGAIN.

>> YOU MEAN ADDING TO THIS?
>> THEY COULD ADD TO IT, THEY

COULD COME UP WITH THEIR OWN
PLAN.

>> I SEE YOUR FOW HUNDRED
$50 MILLION I RAISE YOU

$300 MILLION.
>> AND IT MIGHT TAKE SOMETHING

LIKE THAT, I THINK THERE
PROPOSAL WILL TAKE THE AIR OUT

OF GETTING THE 1.2 BILLION
DOLLARS EVENTUALLY.

>> I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK IT WILL GET BUMPED UP A

BIT.
THEY ARE SEEING POLLS THAT ROADS

THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE.
THEY ARE HEARING FROM

CONSTITUENTS THAT IT HAS TO GET
DONE, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN

THERE'S MOMENTUM.
AND I THINK IT IS TIME FOR THEM

TO DO IT.
>> WELL, THE REAL QUESTION IS

LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD, IS THIS
SOMETHING WE WILL BE GOING

THROUGH EVERY YEAR TO ADENASE I
AM, BECAUSE REMEMBER RICK

SNIDE'S ORIGINAL PROPOSAL WAS
WENT $.2 BILLION EVERY TIME FOR

TEN YEARS.
SO THIS GOING TO GOING ON AND

ON?
IS THIS A ONE TIME BUMP, SIMPLY

BECAUSE WE HAD A TERRIBLE
WINTER, AND EVERYBODY IS

CONCERNED RIGHT NOW.
OR IS THIS A LONG TERM STRATEGY?

>> WHOLESALE GAS TAX HAS AN
INFLATIONARY AUTOMATIC INCREASE,

WHICH WOULD GENERATE MORE MONEY.
THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE ARE

DOING IT.
THEY ARE TRYING TO PITCH IT AS

REVENUE NEUTRAL RIGHT NOW, SO
THAT'S THE CAMEL'S NOSE UNDER

THE TENT TO GET ADDITIONAL
REVENUE WITHOUT A VOTE.

>> YEAH, BUT HOW MUCH
ADDITIONAL?

UP TO 1.2 MILLION A YEAR?
>> NO.

>> SO AT SOME POINT, IF THEY ARE
SERIOUS, THE ROAD LOBBY IS

SAYING 1.2 BILLION ISN'T ENOUGH,
IT SHOULD BE 2 BILLION.

OF COURSE THAT'S ALWAYS.
>> BUDGETS ARE ALSO MOVING, THE

SENATE MOVED THE HIGHER
EDUCATION BUDGET, WHAT DID THEY

STICK YOU IN THAT BILL.
>> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF ISSUES

THAT HAVE BEEN ON IN THAT BILL
FOR THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

ANOTHER ONE THAT SENATE WHITMORE
SPOKE ABOUT IS BANNING DOMESTIC

PARTNER BENEFITS.
SO THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A

DEMOCRATIC -- THERE WERE A LOT
OF AMENDMENTS OFFERED BUT I

THINK THE REPUBLICANS ENDED UP
GETTING EVERYTHING THEY WANTED.

>> REPUBLICANS JUST CAN'T LEAVE
THIS STUFF ALONE.

>> YOU KNOW --
>> IT IS LIKE CRACK COCAINE.

>> I SHOULDN'T SAY WE ARE HERE
ON THE CAMPUS OF MICHIGAN STATE

UNIVERSITY, AND THE SENATE DID
DOCK HALF A MILLION DOLLARS FOR

LEADING A LABOR COURSE.
>> HOW DARE THEY TEACH A LABOR

COURSE.
>> THERE'S CHATTER THEY MAY FIND

A WAY AROUND THAT, BUT THE
SENATE DOES HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE

A STATEMENT, BUT THIS STUFF
GENERALLY ENDS UP BEING WHAT,

TAKEN OUT?
>> GENERALLY.

>> GENERALLY, YES.
>> BECAUSE WHY?

>> WELL --
>> HOW FOR AWE TON MY.

>> IT IS A CLAUSE IN THE STATE
CONSTITUTION, EVERY TIME THE

LEGISLATURE FRIES TO MEDAL IN
THE BUDGET GENERALLY SPEAKING,

EITHER A COURT, INTERSEEDS OR
THE LEGISLATURE BACKS DOWN, OR

WHATEVER.
BUT I MEAN -- THE MAJORITY OF

REPUBLICANS FEEL THEY ARE ON
SOLID GROUND, BECAUSE THEY THINK

INS AN OFF CHUTE OF THE BAN ON
GAY MARRIAGE.

AND SO THEY SAY, LOOK, THIS IS
CONSTITUTIONAL.

>> BUT THE PEOPLE ALSO VOTED FOR
STEM CELL RESEARCH, SO WHY ARE

THEY MESSING WITH THAT?
A LITTLE INCONSISTENCY THERE.

>> YOU THINK?
>> YOU THINK.

>> WELL, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH
WAYS BOYS AND GIRLS.

YOU IS OR YOU AIN'T.
LET'S TALK ABOUT JOHN CONYERS IS

HE IN TROUBLE?
>> SURE.

HE -- HE TURNED IN BAD
SIGNATURES.

THEY TURNED IN 2,000 SIGNATURES.
>> THE GHOST OF BAD --

>> THAT'S WHAT IS ASTOUNDING.
THIS HAS TO BE THE FIRST TIME IN

THE HISTORY OF THE ENTIRE UNITED
STATES OF AMERICA, THAT IN TWO

SUCCESSIVE ELECTIONS, TWO
INCUMBENT CONGRESSMAN SCREW UP

THEIR PETITIONS AND CAN'T GET ON
THE BALLOT YOU WOULD THINK

McCOTER'S SITUATION TWO YEARS
AGO WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ULTIMATE

WARNING SHOT AND PARTICULARLY
SOMEBODY WITH THE EXPERIENCE.

AND YOU WOULD THINK THAT EVERY
CONGRESSWOMAN WOULD DOUBLE DOWN

ON GETTING THE JOB DONE RIGHT.
>> McCONGRESSNERS WAS OUTRIGHT

FOUGHT.
>> RIGHT.

>> THEY WERE CUTTING AND PASTING
THEY WERE JUST DOING BAD STUFF.

>> THEY TURNED IN BAD SIGNATURES
THEY HAD 2,000 SIGNATURES THAT

TURNED IN AND 800 OF THOSE GOT
KICKED OFF, NOW CONYERS HAS A

PRETTY GOOD ELECTION TO TRY TO
REHABILITATE ENOUGH OF THOSE TO

GET HIM BACK ON THE BALLOT.
>> ULTIMATELY, IF HE CAN'T, HE

CAN DO A WRITE IN, AND WE SAID
MIKE DUNN CAN COULDN'T DO IT,

AND HE DID, SO COULD MICHONIERS
DO ID, AND THERE'S A DUGGEN

MACHINE, AND MAYBE THERE'S NOT A
CONYER MAZ SHEEN.

>> HE HAS THE NAME I.D., HE HAS
REPRESENTED THAT DISTRICT FOR A

VERY LONG TIME.
I THINK THERE'S SOME QUESTION AS

TO WHETHER, YES, HE AND HIS
PEOPLE COULD GET OUT AND SAY

WRITE IT IN, INSTEAD OF VOTE FOR
IT.

>> WELL --
>> LABOR IS GETTING BEHIND HIM.

HE HAS A LOT OF CIVIL RIGHTS.
HE IS A LIBERAL ICON, HE IS A

CIVIL RIGHTS ICON.
SO HE IS GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF

PEOPLE THAT WILL COME AND WORK
FOR HIM, IF HE HAS TO DO A WRITE

IN.
>> AN ICON THAT CAN'T COUNT.

>> WHAT IRONY THAT THE VERY YEAR
THAT JOHN EARE TIRES AND IT

LASTS HE SAYS -- AND HE CAN'T
MAKE THE BALLOT.

THAT IS UNBELIEVABLE.
>> AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE

WHO DON'T WANT HIM TO HAVE TO
LEAVE LIKE THIS.

HE WANTS TO LEAVE ON HIS OWN
TERMS.

INOF GETTING BOOTED OFF THE
BALLOT.

>> THERE IS A POLL OUT THAT
SHOWS NOW 11-POINT LEAD IN THE

GOVERNORS RACE, IS IT REAL?
I THINK IT'S GOOD NUMBERS.

IT SEEMS TO HAVE SAMPLED A GOOD
NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS,

DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS.
OBVIOUSLY THESE POLLS WILL COME

FROM ONE SIDE OR THE ISSUE, ASK
THE GOVERNOR A QUESTION, NOT AS

A SIDE NOTE, BUT KIND OF A A
BENCHMARK FOR THE ISSUES.

11-POINTS IS SIGNIFICANT.
>> THERE ARE ALWAYS OUTLIAR

POLES SHOWING THE RACE TIED.
SO YOU TAKE AN 11-POINT LEAD AND

A TIE AND IT IS ABOUT FIVE OR
SIX, AND THAT'S PROBABLY ABOUT

WHAT IT IS.
>> THIS ALSO HAD GARY PETERS UP

BY FIVE, SO WHO KNOWS WHERE IT
IS AT.

>> WHAT ARE PEOPLE AT HOME
SAYING?

>> NOTHING, YEAH, I THINK THAT'S
RIGHT, EXCEPT THERE ARE SENIORS

THAT ARE ANGRY ABOUT THE SENIOR
PENSION TAX.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY
QUESTION ABOUT THAT, AND

OBVIOUSLY THE DEMOCRATS ARE
TRYING TO MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF

CUTTING K 12 EDUCATION, AND THE
CONTROVERSIAL, THE GOVERNOR HAS

REALLY DONE THAT OR NOT.
PROBABLY TECHNICALLY LEGALLY HE

HAS NOT.
BUT IN CLASSROOM FOUNDATION

GRANT PER PUPIL FUNDING YES THAT
WAS CUT FOR A WHILE, WHATEVER.

SO I THINK THOSE ARE ISSUES.
WHETHER THEY ARE GOING TO BUBBLE

UP TO THE POINT WHER WHERE PEOPE
OUTRAGED AND GO VOTE FOR MARK

SHOWER THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.
>> I THINK PEOPLE THAT DON'T

LIKE SNYDER REALLY DON'T LIKE
SNYDER.

THERE'S SOME REAL PASSION OUT
THERE FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIKE

HIM.
NOBODY STILL DON'T KNOW WHO MARK

SHOWER IS.
>> I WAS IN A GROUP THE OTHER

NIGHT, AND ASKED THE QUESTION
WHO IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR,

THEY GOT RICK SNYDER RIGHT.
MARK BREWER WAS THE NAME THAT

CAME UP.
CLOSE.

>> DID YOU SEE THAT LITTLE AD IN
THE PAPER THAT TALKED ABOUT THE

CANDIDATE, AND SAY THAT IT IS A
MAN THAT THEY HAVE FOR IT IS

MARCH SHOWER.
>> MARCH SHOWER.

>> YEAH.
>> PEOPLE ARE NOT ENGAGED YET,

LET'S BE HONEST HERE, WE ARE
ENGAGED BECAUSE WE LOVE THE

STUFF, AND WE LIVE IT AND
BREATHE AND IT SO DO THE

POLITICIANS BUT THE GENERAL
PUBLIC IS WORRIED ABOUT THE

TIGERS BULLPEN, STILL NOT UP TO
SNUFF, THE WINGS ARE PLAYING

GOLF RATHER THAN HOCKEY, WHEN
WILL THEY GET IN THE GAME?

>> I AM NOT SURE THE SHOWER
CAMPAIGN HAS DONE A LOT.

THEY HAVE -- THEY ARE WORKING ON
THE MIDDLE CLASS, THEY HAVE

MINIMUM WAGE, BUT I'M NOT SURE
THAT MARK SHOWER HAS GOTTEN OUT

THERE, MADE THE WAVES THAT HE
NEEDS TO MAKE, FRANKLY, FOR THE

PUBLIC TO RECOGNIZE WHO HE IS.
>> THE DEMOCRATIC THEME THIS

YEAR IS GETTING THE VOTERS
ANGRY.

ANGRY VOTERS DON'T SIT AT HOME,
THEY GO TO THE POLLS.

>> THEY ARE DRYING TO MOTIVATE
THEIR BASE.

WAR ON WOMEN, MINIMUM WAGE,
ANTI-SNYDER FOR SOME OF THE

THEMINGS THE GOVERNOR HAS DONE,
ANYTHING THEY CAN DO TO

ORCHESTRATE THEIR BASE.
>> LET'S TALK GREG McMASTER IS

IN HIS SECOND TERM, AND SERVES
ON THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMIT

DEE.
AND ATTENDED AIR FORCE COMMUNITY

COLLEGE, HE IS CURRENTLY RUNNING
FOR THE STATE SENATE AND A CHER

OF THE BUDGET COMMITTEE ON
CORRECTIONS AND VICE SHARE OF

STATE POLICE.
>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, GOOD

TO SEE YOU.
>> WHAT DIFFERENT THINGS IN THE

CORRECTIONS BUDGET ON THE HOUSE
SIDE, AND WHAT ARE DIFFERENCES

IS THE SENATE RIGHT NOW.
>> THAT'S WHAT WE ARE FERRETING

OUT.
WHAT WE BROUGHT FORWARD IN THE

HOUSE IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE
A BIT MORE AGREEABLE AND

WORKABLE WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF
CORRECTIONS.

WE AREN'T ALWAYS AGREE ON
EVERYTHING, BUT TRYING TO

UNDERSTAND THAT WE DO WANT TO
REDUCE THE PRISONER LEVELS THAT

ARE THERE, AND TRY TO HELP
REDUCE THE BUDGET, AND DO IT IN

A WAY THAT WILL KEEP THE PUBLIC
SAFE FROM HARM FROM THOSE THAT

WILL BE ESCAPING, SO THERE'S A
LOT OF ISSUES.

>> WHAT ABOUT PUTTING A CAP ON
THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PRISONERS,

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS SCHOOL
UP ON THE SENATE SIDE.

>> IT HAS.
HIS HASN'T EVEN BEEN IN A

DEBATABLE SITUATION, BUT THEY
ARE RECOGNIZES THAN AN ISSUE

THEY NEED TO LOOK AT.
WE HAVE HEARD SOME FEEDBACK, BUT

WE HAVE IS TO LOOK AT THE TRUE
REASON AS TO WHY THE CAP IS

BEING INCITY INSTITUTED WITH
SENATE BILL 909, AND THAT

WANTING TO REDUCE THE
POPULATION, AND GETTING IT DOWN,

HELPING TO REDUCE THE BUDGET IN
THE PROCESS, WE HAVE TRIED TO

HAVE A DEBATE WITH THE
DEPARTMENT, AND THEY ARE REALLY

GOOD AT BEING ABLE TO SIDE STEP,
AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS

ENGAGE IN A DISCUSSION, THAT ONE
WAY OR ANOTHER WE HAVE TO ROW

DEUCE POPULATION.
IS START LOOKING AT GETTING BACK

IN THE WORK FORCE.
>> YOU CALLED THE CAPPING THE

NUCLEAR OPTION.
>> IT IS, BECAUSE EVERYTHING

ELSE WE FRIED TO DO DIDN'T WORK.
EVERY TIME WE ENGAGED IN A

DISCUSSION HAVING PAROLE,
GETTING READY TO MOVE BACK INTO

THE WORK FORCE IS MET WITH
OPPOSITION.

THERE'S ALWAYS SYSTEM REASON WHY
THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO DO

SOMETHING, SO NOW WE ARE FORCING
THEM TO THE TABLE TO SAY LISTEN,

WE WILL NEED TO START REDUCING
THE PRISONER LEVELS HOW DO WE

START.
>> SO THE PRISON DEPARTMENT HAS

BEEN STONE WALLING THE
LEGISLATURE?

>> THAT'S YOUR WORD, NOT MINE.
>> WHAT WORD WOULD YOU USE?

>> I WOULD SAY THEY ARE NOT AS
TRAN PARENT AS I WOULD LIKE THEM

TO BE.
>> STONE WALLING HAS A NICER

SOUND TO IT, DOESN'T IT.
>> IT IS.

>> AND IT IS CLOSER TO THE
TRUTH, ISN'T IT?

>> IT IS DIFFICULT.
WE HAVE MAD A TRANSITION WITH

THE TWO.
TRYING TO GET ACCURATE NUMBERS

WITH THEM HAS BEEN HARD TO DO,
AND THAT'S PART OF THE CHALLENGE

TO GET YOU WHERE YOU ARE NOW.
TEN WE ARE JUST LOOKING FOR

ANOTHER WAY TO TRY TO ENGAGE
THEM.

WE DEFINITELY GOT THEIR
ATTENTION.

>> WELL, YOU MUST BE GETTING
SOME PUSH BACK, BECAUSE WHEN YOU

REDUCE THE PRISON POPULATION, A
LOT OF COUNTY JAILS, THE

POPULATION GOES WAY UP FOR THAT.
WHAT KIND OF PUSH BACK ARE YOU

GETTING?
>> THERE ARE SOME LOOKING TO

EXPAND AUTOMATICALLY, BECAUSE OF
THE NEED FOR IT, I KNOW THE

AMOUNT DIFFERENCE, YOU ARE
LOOKING AT ABOUT 5,500, THERE

AREN'T ENOUGH JAIL BEDS OUT
THERE, WE RECOGNIZE THAT.

BUT ENGAGING IN THAT DISCUSSION,
IF YOU CAN REDUCE IT, WE CAN

UTILIZE THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE
BED SPACE THAT'S OUT THERE.

WE WON'T FORCE THEM TO HAVE OPEN
UP MORE JAILS BUT THIS IS THE

DIRECTION WE WANT TO GO, THERE'S
ALSO BEEN SOME FEEDBACK, LIKE

YOU SAID FROM THE COMMUNITY,
WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO BE

CLOSING PRISONS.
I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING.

YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THE 5500
SIMPLY SAY THAT MEANS TWO FRIZZ

WILLS BE CLOSED.
NOT NECESSARILY, IF WE DID END

UP WITH THAT CAP, AND YOU DIVIDE
THAT BY THE 32 PRISONS THAT HAVE

A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF
POPULATION, YOU ARE LOOKING AT

ABOUT 150 PRISONERS THAT CAN BE
SHIFTED.

THEY ARE JUST GOING TO CLOSE A
COUPLE OF UNITS THAT WOULD BE

ABOUT IT.
RETTIVE, YOU WILL BE VOTING

TODAY, THIS IS THURSDAY ON A
HIGHWAY TRANSPORTATION BUDGET,

SO FORTH.
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE.

>> WELL, RIGHT NOW, ONCE IT GETS
TO THE HOUSE FLOOR IT HAS TO GO

TO SECOND READING AND THERE WILL
BE AMENDMENTS.

FOR ME TO PIN DOWN EXACTLY HOWLY
VOTE, I WANT TO WAIT AND SEE

WHAT THE AMENDMENTS WILL BE.
I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF RAISING

TAXES.
THE PLAN I PUT FORWARD FROM

BILLS LAST YEAR, SHOWS THERE'S
AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAVE ALMOST

$1 BILLION, AND I THINK WE AND
DO THAT WITHOUT RAISING TAXES.

>> WHAT IS THE MECHANISM TO
RAISE 1 BILLION-DOLLARS IN YOUR

PLAN?
HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

>> PART OF CHASE WALTERS PLAN
IS, WHOING WELL.

ALL I DID IS TAKE OUT THE
INCREASED FEES AND TAXES, AND

ALSO THE GAS TAX INCREASE, BUT
ALSO IMPLEMENT A BILL THAT'S

BEEN PUT IN BY AMANDA PRICE.
REPRESENTATIVE, IT IS APPEALING

THE PREVAILING WAGE LAW.
IT HASN'T, IT HAS BEEN SITTING

IDOL.
>> SO WHY PROPOSE IT?

>> BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT
NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED.

>> IF IT DID GO SOMEWHERE, IT
WOULD SAVE HOW MUCH?

>> ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCH,
$400 MILLION.

>> OKAY THAT'S STILL NOT GETTING
YOU TO $1 BILLION.

>> THERE IS NO ONE SILVER
BULLET, LIT BE A CUMULATIVE.

>> ARE YOU CLOSE TO SHIFTING THE
USE TAX AND THE SALES TAX FROM

THE BUMP INTO THE ROAD.
>> CAN I ANSWER HIS QUESTION.

>> NO.
>> ASK YOUR QUESTION AGAIN.

>> YOU CAN, OBVIOUSLY.
GO AHEAD.

>> HOW DO YOU GET TO A BILLION,
IS IS WHAT I SAID?

>> THROUGH A SUCCESSION OF BILLS
THAT HAVE IS BEEN INTRODUCED

THAT HAVEN'T BEEN PUSHED FLU THE
COMMITTEE YET, COMPETITIVE

BIDDING THAT WILL YIELD SOME
SAVINGS PUT THAT MONEY INTO THE

GENERAL FUND, THE PREVAILING
WAGE LAW, PUT IS THAT INTO THE

GENERAL FUND, THOSE TWO GAINED
ALONG WITH WHAT IS PROPOSED YOU

CAN GET A LITTLE OVER
$1 BILLION.

>> WHY DON'T THEY GO SOMEWHERE?
WHY IS THERE RESISTENT, YOU

WOULD THINK A REPUBLICAN
CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE WOULD

LIKE THOSE.
>> I WOULD TOO, BUT FOR WHATEVER

REASON THEY ARE DECIDING NOT TO
RAISE THOSE.

>> SO YOU MAY BE A KNOW VOTE ON
THIS THING AT THE END OF THE

DAY.
>> THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME

PACKAGES I WILL VOTE ON, THERE'S
OTHER PARTS I WON'T BE VOTING IN

FAVOR OF, I FEEL THERE'S OTHER
WAYS WITH ECAN DO IT, EVERYBODY

AGREES WE DO NEED TO FIX OUR
ROADS.

WE WILL GET TO THAT, BUT I THINK
THERE'S MORE MONEY BY BECOMING A

MORE EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT.
>> ARE THERE PARTS OF THE

SPEAKER'S PACKAGE THAT YOU VIEW
AS A TAX HIKE?

>> YEAH, THERE ARE A COUP UNTIL
THERE, IF IT IS NOT A TAX HIKE

NOW, LIT BE IN THE FUTURE.
A LOT DEPENDS ON THE PRICE OF

TAX, WHICH IS A COMMODITY THAT
YOU CAN'T CONTROL.

SO IF THE PRICE GOES DOWN, THE
TAX GOES DOWN.

SO THE WHOLESALE GAS TAX IS A
TAX INCREASE?

>> I THINK IT IS.
RIGHT NOW IT IS REVENUE NEUTRAL.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE USE TAX AND
THE SALES TAX AND REDIRECTED

THAT INTO THE ROADS.
>> THAT PART, I DON'T SEE A

PROBLEM WITH, THEY ARE GOING TO
BE COMING IN YOU THINK THE

LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR MAY
BE PLOTTING TO DO SOMETHING

AFTER THE ELECTION.
I THINK YOU ACCUSED YOUR PRIMARY

REPUBLICAN 37TH DISTRICT UP
NORTH, THAT HE WAS NEFARIOUSLY

PLOTTING WITH THE GOVERNOR TO DO
THIS?

YOU THINK THAT'S RIGHT?
>> ALL I DID WAS REPEAT PART OF

WHAT HE SAID ABOUT BEING ABLE TO
RAISE A TAX IN LAME DUCK.

>> WHAT DID HE SAY ABOUT IT?
>> WELL --

>> DID HE THINK IT WAS A GOOD
IDEA.

>> DID HE.
>> DID HE SAY THAT.

>> YEAH, HE DID.
BRIDGE MAG GENE WITH A REPORTER.

WHEN A GOVERNOR SAYS THAT UP I
NEED YOUR VOTE TO HELP DETROIT.

YOU WILL TELL THE GOVERNOR, THIS
IS NOT YOUR FATHER'S WEATHER

CAST.
INTERESTING ENOUGH I HAVE A

MEETING TODAY, AND I HAVE IS
SOME VERY TERSE QUESTIONS.

>> HE WILL BE IN TOWN?
>> YEAH, HAVEN'T YOU SEEN THE

NEWS LATELY.
>> I THOUGHT HE WASN'T COMING

IN, WHAT TIME.
>> I AM SUPPOSED TO MEET WITH

HIM AT 3:00, BUT I MAY CHANGE IT
UP NOW.

[LAUGHTER]
>> BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION.

IF THE GOVERNOR CALLS AND ASKED
FOR YOUR VOTE, YOU WILL TELL

HIM --
>> I WILL TELL HIM YES AND NOT,

A LOT OF IT DEPENDS ON THE
LAWSUIT THE PENSIONERS.

I DON'T WANT TO SEE MONEY GOING
QUICKLY TO DETROIT, THEY HAVE TO

GET THEMSELVES OUT OF IT, BUT IF
THERE'S A LEGAL ISSUE, OR A

BATTLE ON A LAWSUIT THAT WE
COULD LOSE, FOR INSTITUTIONAL

REASONS OR WHATEVER, I AM ALL
FOR REDUCING RISK AND LIMITED

LIABILITY, AND IF WE CAN PUT UP
A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THAT TO

MAKE SURE THAT THE CASE IS
RESOLVED AND IS WITH PREJUDICE,

IT DOESN'T COME BACK, THAT I
WOULD CONSIDER DOING.

>> LET'S TAKE THE CASE OUT OF
THE EQUATION, AND JUST ASK THE

QUESTION, IT IS $200 MILLION OR
SO, LUMP SUM PAYMENT AS PROPOSED

RIGHT NOW, FOR DETROIT
PENSIONERS TO REDUCE THEIR

LIABILITIES.
ARE YOU THERE?

>> NO.
>> BECAUSE?

>> BECAUSE THEY GOT THEMSELVES
INTO THIS MESS, THEY NEED TO GET

THEMSELVES OUT.
>> BUT THE GOVERNOR SAYS THIS IS

ONE WAY THEY CAN GET OUT AND
THEY WILL BE BETTER IN THE LONG

RUN.
>> AND WE WILL SET A PRECEDENCE,

WE HAVE -- PRIVATE BUSINESSES
DON'T GET THIS SAME THING.

AND THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE
OPERATE AND UNDERSTAND, WHERE

THEY CAME FROM, HOW THEY GOT TO
BE WHERE THEY ARE, THE FINANCIAL

MISMANAGEMENT THEY GOT TO, AND
HOW THEY CORRECT IT, IT HAS TO

COME WITHIN.
PEOPLE OUTSIDE CAN THROW MONEY

RIGHT AND LEFT, BUT IF THEY
DON'T CHANGE THE PHILOSOPHY OF

HOW THEY ARE GOING TO OPERATE
THAT THAT GOVERNMENT, LIT NEVER

CHANGE.
>> WELL, THERE'S OVERSIGHT THAT

WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE PACKAGE
OF BILLS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE

INTRODUCED TODAY.
IS THAT ENOUGH TO GET YOU THERE.

>> YEAH, IT IS INTERESTING YOU
SAID THAT, UNDER THE GAG ORDER I

HAVEN'T BEEN PRIVY TO THAT, SO
IF YOU KNOW, THEN SHARE WITH ME,

BECAUSE THAT LEVEL OF OVERSIGHT
IS GOING TO BE CRUCIAL IN

DETERMINING HOW DETROIT WILL
RECOVER.

AND I AM NOT ALL FOR JUST NOT
GIVING ANYTHING TO DETROIT.

THEY ARE A VIABLE, BEAUTIFUL
OPPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE TO

REBRAND THEMSELVES AND BECOME
THE ONCE POWER HOUSE CITY THAT

IT USED TO BE.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO

PROVIDE THAT AND HELP THE
ADMINISTRATION MOVE IN THAT

DIRECTION, I WON'T TURN MY BACK
ON THEM, BUT I THINK THERE'S

INCENTIVES BUSINESS
OPPORTUNITIES THAT CAN HELP

FLOURISH, RESIDENTIAL
COMMUNITIES MANY WAYS WE CAN

HELP THEM, BESIDES JUST THROWING
$200 MILLION TO THEY WANT.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, ARE YOU GOING
TO BE ABLE TO RAISE THE MONEY

YOU NEED IN THAT 37TH DISTRICT
RAISE UP THERE?

>> NOT AT THE AMOUNT THAT HE IS
RAISING, HE IS GETTING A LOT OF

MONEY FROM LANCING FROM THE
POLITICAL PEOPLE, WHERE THEY ARE

ABLE TO LEVERAGE A VOTE.
MY VOTE IS IS FOR THE PEOPLE UP

IN NORTHERN MICHIGAN, THEY KNOW
THAT.

THEY RECOGNIZE THAT, AND BEING
ON T.V. IS AND RADIO HAS

CERTAINLY HELPED ME OUT OVER THE
PAST 15 YEARS.

THEY CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE, AND
I HAVE NO DOUBTLY BE WELL AHEAD

OF THEM, THE PAST COUPLE OF
POLLS SHOWED ME.

>> LEVERAGED A VOTE, WHAT DOES
THAT MEAN.

>> WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE
VOTE THAT CERTAIN MEMBERS HAVE,

AND LOOK AT THEIR FUND RAISING
YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A SIMILARITY

TO IT, A PARALLEL.
>> MEANING.

>> BEING PAID OFF BY LOBBY JEST
FOR VOTING THE WAY THEY WANT?

>> NO, I CAN JUST SAY THERE'S
PARALLELS AND SIMILARITIES IN

THAT.
>> IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH

THAT?
>> FOR ME FOR COMMON SENSE, FOR

ETHICAL REASONS AND MORAL
REASONS I THINK THERE IS.

>> WHAT'S IMMORAL ABOUT IT?
>> I THINK YOU SHOULD VOTE YOUR

CONSTITUENTS.
THE VOICE OF WHO YOU REPRESENT.

>> WHAT'S AN EXAMPLE
PARTICULARLY OF A LOBBYIEST

CONTRIBUTION AND A VOTE HE HAS
CAST.

>> I WOULD SAY THE MEDICAID
EXPANSION VOTE.

THEY DRAFT ADD RESOLUTION TO
VOTE NOW.

THERE WASN'T A SINGLE VOICE IN
FAVOR OUT, AND YET THAT VOTE WAS

CAST AND IT WAS A YES.
>> SOME WOULD SAY I AM

SUPPORTING CANDIDATES THAT VOTE
THE WAY I WANT THEM TO, AND

THAT'S WHY I SUPPORT THEM, I AM
NOT TRYING TO LEVERAGE A VOTE,

JUST SUPPORTING THEM BECAUSE
THEY ARE RIGHT.

>> THE OPPOSITION UP IN NORTHERN
MICHIGAN WOULD SUGGEST

OTHERWISE.
>> SO YOU THINK THERE'S --

>> VOTING FOR THE CONSTITUENT
WHOSE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO

BENEFIT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
NUMBER WAS, UP IN THOSE COUNTIES

UP THERE, BUT THERE WERE A LOT.
AND THEY HAVEN'T COME OUT OF THE

WOODWORK YET.
>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON

THE SHOW, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK,
RIGHT HERE, OFF THE RECORD.

>> PRODUCTION FOR "OFF THE
RECORD" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY A

GRANT FROM TRUSS SCOTT ROZMAN.
MICHIGAN'S ONLY STRATEGIC FIRM,

SERVING STATEWIDE, NATIONAL, AND
INTERNATIONAL CLIENTS FROM THEIR

OFFICES IN LANCING, DETROIT, AND
GRAND RAPIDS.

TRUSS SCOTT ROSSMAN.COM.
BY THE MICHIGAN FOOD AND

BEVERAGE ASSOCIATION.
IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE MICHIGAN

BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONAL
ASSOCIATION.

WORKING TOGETHER FOR ITS
MEMBERS, MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION

ON THE WEB AT MICHBUSINESS.ORG.
AND BY HAGER FOX HEATING AND AIR

CONDITIONING COMPANY.
SERVING THE GREATING LANSING

AREA SINCE 1941, PROVIDING
SOLUTIONS AND CHOICES FOR HOME

COMFORT DURING ALL MICHIGAN
SEASONS.

HAGER FOX IN BRYANT, WHATEVER IT
TAKES.

M LIVE MEDIA GROUP, PROVIDING
REAL TIME NEWS, SPORTS BUSINESS

AND ENTERTAINMENT AT M LIVE.COM,
TIM SKUBICK BLOGS ABOUT MICHIGAN

POLITICS DAILY AT M LIVE.COM.
OFF THE RECORD CAN BE SEEN

ONLINE, ANY TIME, AT
VIDEO.WKAR.ORG.

EPISODES ON DVD ARE ALSO
AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE.

>> MICHIGAN PUBLIC TV STATIONS
HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE

PRODUCTION COSTS OF OFF THE
RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

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