>> WELCOME BACK.
POLITICAL CONSULTANT HOWARD
EDELSON IS OUR GUEST THIS WEEK
WITH SOME INSIDER REFLECTIONS ON
PROPOSAL ONE.
THE CRUSHING DEFEAT OF THE SALES
TAX HIKE IS OUR LEAD STORY AND
HERE TO DIGEST IT ARE:
ZOE CLARK, JONATHON OOSTING, AND
SUSAN DEMAS.
SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE
INSIDE, OUT..."OFF THE RECORD. "
PRODUCTION OF-OFF IS MADE
POSSIBLE.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND
WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM, AND
YES OR NO, WERE YOU SURPRISED BY
TUESDAY'S ELECTION RESULTS?
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
>> NO.
>> NOT THAT SURPRISED, BUT FOR
THE ONE.
>> I HAD 65-35 IN THE POOL.
>> I HAD 68.
AND NO ONE THOUGHT 80/20, THE
WORST IN DECADES AND DECADES.
>> AND YEARS.
BUT WHO IS COUNTING?
>> THEY HAD IT AT 29,000, THE
POLL, BUT THEY ARE.
>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT
HAPPENED THE DAY AFTER IF WE
CAN.
AFTER THE GOVERNOR TO BED IN THE
TOWEL LAST NIGHT ON PROPOSAL
ONE, DEMOCRATS TODAY WERE
COMPLAINING THAT THERE WAS NO
SENSE OF URGENCY IN THE
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE, AS SOME
LAWMAKERS WERE IN HOLLAND AT THE
TULIP FESTIVAL.
>> I THINK THIS HAS BEEN A
STANDARD THING AS LONG AS I'VE
BEEN HERE.
THIS IS MY THIRD TERM, AND I
THINK THEY HAVE DONE IT EVERY
YEAR, AND I DON'T THINK THAT IT
HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE
ELECTION.
>> IT'S A SHAME THAT THE
REPUBLICANS ARE TIPTOEING
THROUGH THE TULIPS IN HOLLAND
INSTEAD OF DOING THEIR JOB.
>> THIS IS TRADITION.
>> THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT
THINGS.
>> LUCKILY, THE LEGISLATURE IS
OFF.
BUT HIS COUNTERPART IS WILLING
TO WORK IN THE SUMMER.
BUT GIVING THE ORDER TO WORK
DURING THE SUMMER, THE GOVERNOR
PARTICIPATED.
>> THEY SAID THEIR SCHEDULE--
>> THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER
SAID HE IS OPEN TO A SUMMER
SESSION, BUT HE WANTS TO GET
THIS DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
ON THE SALES FRONT, 64% OF THE
VOTERS WOULD FAVOR A STAND-ALONE
SALES TAX HIKE IF ALL OF THE
MONEY WENT TO THE ROADS.
THE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER IS NOT
SURE THAT THE CRUMBLING ROADS
CAN WAIT FOR A VOTE ON THAT.
>> THE SALES TAX WAS VIEWED IN
THE BEST SOURCE FOR NEW REVENUE,
AND I THINK NOW THAT HAS BEEN
TAKEN OFF THE TABLE, BECAUSE
WHILE THE VOTERS MAY NOT OPPOSE
A STAND-ALONE, WE HAVE TO BE
SENSITIVE TO THE TIMING, BECAUSE
THE COST IS GOING UP BY THE DAY.
>> AS FOR THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS,
IS THE SALES TAX OPTION DEAD.
>> I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO
BE RELUCTANT TO PUT A SALES TAX
OPTION BEFORE THE VOTERS AFTER
YESTERDAY.
>> SO, GIVE US 20 SECONDS ON WHY
THIS FAILED, OTHER THAN THE FACT
THAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT.
>> ONLY 20 SECONDS?
THERE'S EVERY REASON.
SOME DON'T LIKE TAXES AND SOME
DON'T LIKE THE REPUBLICAN
GOVERNMENT AND SOME THOUGHT THAT
IT WAS TOO CONFUSING.
I THINK THAT EVERYBODY AGREES
THAT THE MESSAGE WAS TERRIBLE.
>> I THINK THAT EVERYBODY IS
ANGRY.
>> WITHOUT TIMEOUT HIGHER THAN
PEOPLE THOUGHT, THEY HAD STRONG
FEELINGS ON THIS ISSUE.
IT WAS NOT PERSONAL PROPERTY
TAXES FROM LAST YEAR.
PEOPLE KNEW ABOUT THIS, AND THEY
WERE AWARE, AND THEY GOT OUT
THERE AND VOTED.
STILL RELATIVELY LOW TIMEOUT.
>> FOR A MAY-- I THINK THAT A
LOT OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE
IDEA THAT I HEARD OVER AND OVER
AGAIN, WHICH WAS, WE DON'T WANT
TO SAY OKAY TO PUNTING THE ISSUE
TO VOTERS.
>> THAT'S YOUR JOB, LANSING.
>> EXACTLY.
AND WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE SAID
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY
COULD HAVE SUPPORTED OR PARTS OF
IT, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO REWARD
LAWMAKERS.
>> BRING A BALLOT PROPOSAL OF
THE PAST WITHOUT THE GOODIES IN
64% OF THE PEOPLE SUPPORT THAT.
>> BUT AGAIN, THIS GOES TO THE
POLITICAL REALITY THAT THAT WAS
IMPOSSIBLE AT THE TIME.
AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT
EVERYBODY LOOKS AT.
THIS WOULD HAVE PASSED AND IT
WOULD HAVE, BUT THE POLITICAL
DYNAMICS IN THE SUMMER.
>> WANTED POLITICAL PARTY ON
THIS, CORRECT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
AND I THINK TO LOOK TO THE
GOVERNOR TO SOME KIND OF
RELATIONSHIP WITH DEMOCRATS AS
HE DID.
WHY THE EITC WAS PART OF THE
BALLOT AND WHY MONEY FOR
EDUCATION IS PART OF THE BALLOT
AND HE HAS TO LOOK AT THAT TOO.
>> I'M NOT SURE WHAT A CLEAN
PROPOSAL OF THE PAST IS, BECAUSE
PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE
MONEY FOR ROADS IS NOT THERE.
I PAY MY MONEY AT THE PUMPS IS
AND WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING?
AND IF YOU DID NOT EXPLAIN THAT
TO THEM, PEOPLE DO NOT TRUST
LAWMAKERS AND THE GOVERNOR ON
THIS ISSUE.
>> AND AS WE KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T
GENERALLY VOTE TO RAISE THEIR
OWN TAXES ON A STATE-WIDE
PROPOSAL.
>> NO, YOU HAD PROPOSAL A, BUT
THAT WAS A TAX CUT.
AND ACTUALLY RAISING TAXES, THAT
FELL TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
>> AND IT GOES BACK TO THERE
WASN'T AN EITHER/OR PLAN, YOU'RE
NOT VOTING FOR OPTION ONE OR
TWO.
THIS WAS VOTE FOR THIS OR NOT,
AND WE'LL GO BACK TO THE DRAWING
BOARD.
THE OPPONENTS KEPT SAYING, THIS
IS NOT A PLAN B.
BUT VOTERS DEEP DOWN KNEW, WE'RE
GOING TO SAY NO, AND FOLKS WILL
COME BACK TOGETHER FOR GOOD OR
WORSE, AND IF THE ROADS ARE SO
BAD, WE'LL NEED TO COME UP WITH
ANOTHER OPTION.
>> LET'S PURSUE THIS OTHER
OPTION, DO YOU THINK THAT THE
SALES TAX IS DEAD AS AN OPTION.
>> YES, I DON'T THINK FOR
ANYBODY TO DO BACK TO THE
BALLOT, THAT SAID, IF WE HAVE
ANOTHER TWO YEARS OF LEGISLATIVE
DEBATE, IF NOTHING HAPPENS,
THERE COULD BE A PLAN B.
>> AND LAWMAKERS?
>> SOME LAWMAKERS HAVE SAID IT,
THEY'RE NOT COMPLETELY SAYING NO
TO EVERYTHING.
>> THE GOVERNOR SAID, YOU ASKED
HIM A QUESTION IF IT'S REVENUE
INCREASE, AND HE SAID I DIDN'T
READ IT THAT WAY.
HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS.
CRYSTAL BALL, HYBRID PLAN.
BUDGET CUTS, RAISE A LITTLE
MONEY, PUT THE SALES TAX BACK ON
THE BALLOT.
BUT FIRST PASSION THE GAS TAX
FIRST, WHICH NOBODY LIKES, AND
GIVE THE PEOPLE A CHOICE.
BERNIE IN THE BRIEFING THAT WE
HAD WITH HIM.
THE GAS TAX, AND PEOPLE DON'T
LIKE THAT, VOTE FOR THE SALES
TAX, YES, NO.
>> YOU HAVE SPEAKER CONNOR AND
REPUBLICANS SAYING THAT THIS IS
A MANDATE FOR NO TAXES.
>> HE SAYS NOT NECESSARILY, BUT
THE PLAN IS GOING TO PRESENT IS
MOSTLY EXISTING REVENUE.
>> BUT YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT HIM
TO START WITH A PLAN FOR TAX
INCREASE, WOULD YOU?
>> NO, BUT YOU HAD A
REPUBLICAN-LED GOVERNMENT.
AND THIS WAS A HUGE, HUGE DEFEAT
FOR TAX INCREASE.
THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION THAT MANY
PEOPLE, LIKE SENATOR BRANDONBERG
HAVE COME TO, CUT TAXES OVER
TIME.
>> BUT I TALKED TO SENATOR
KAUFAX YESTERDAY, AND HE OPENED
THE DOOR JUST A SCOSHE, AND IF
WE CAN'T COME UP WITH ENOUGH
MONEY, WE MIGHT HAVE TO RAISE
TAXES.
>> IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT PEOPLE
LIKE HIM FOR A TAX INCREASE,
IT'S SAYING THAT THIS IS NOT
DOING VERY WELL.
>> I THINK THAT EVERYBODY IS
GOING TO TAKE THE MESSAGE THAT
WENT TO.
AND I HAVE A SHOUT OUT TO
JONATHON OOSTING, THE TWEET OF
THE NIGHT.
>> IT'S A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT
NOBODY AGREEING.
>> AND YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE WHAT
YOU WANT OUT OF THAT.
SO THEY ARE GOING TO SAY THIS IS
ABSOLUTELY PURELY ABOUT NO NEW
TAXES, AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE
GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ELSE.
SNYDER IS GOING TO SAY SOMETHING
ELSE.
WE STILL NEED TO DO THE ROADS.
AND FOR POLITICS, THAT'S HOW IT
WORKS.
AFTER ANY ELECTION, YOU SAY WE
HAVE TO DO IT MY WAY.
>> DID I INTERPRET THE
GOVERNOR'S COMMENTS TO SAY THAT
HE IS NOW WAITING FOR WHAT THE
LEGISLATURE DOES?
>> WELL, HE AND MICOFF USED
SIMILAR LANGUAGE, IT'S GOING TO
BE A GIVE PROCESS.
>> HAVING LED ON THIS AND LOST,
OKAY, GUYS, PLEASE.
>> NOT JUST LEAD ON IT IN THE
PAST SIX MONTHS, BUT SINCE 2011,
HE HAS HAD ON ONE OF HIS AGENDA
ITEMS.
>> HE HAS LED ON THIS, BUT LET'S
ALSO REMEMBER THAT HE FIRST
PROPOSED THE GAS TAX AND THE
REGISTRATION TAX INCREASE, AND
THAT WENT NOWHERE.
THE LEGISLATOR, AND HE WAS THERE
IN THE BACKGROUND HAVING STEERED
THE SHIP.
BUT TWO YEARS LATER, THIS IS
WHAT THEY CAME UP WITH.
>> I THINK THAT NEW REVENUE WILL
BE PARTLY OF THIS PACKAGE.
TELL ME I'M STUPID, BUT I THINK
IT WILL BE THERE.
>> HOW DO THEY GET TO
$1.2 BILLION?
>> I DON'T THINK THEY DO.
>> CAN THEY OFF CUT THE BUDGET
TO $1.2 MILLION?
>> THEY CAN, BUT I DON'T THINK
THAT THEY WILL COME UP WITH A
SOLUTION.
AND THIS IS WHY YOU'RE NOW
HEARING ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT
IDEAS.
THE CATASTROPHIC FUND, RIGHT?
OH, THERE'S MONEY HERE.
OH, THERE'S THE WASTE, FRAUD AND
ABUSE IDEA.
>> GOVERNMENT.
>> BUT IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE
$1.2 BILLION.
IF THIS ISN'T FINDING YOU A
COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS,
NOT JUST $1.2 BILLION.
>> IF THEY REALLY WANTED TO DO
THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION
WARRANTIES, THAT WOULD MAKE A
HUGE DIFFERENCE, AND THEY COULD
RUN WITH IT, BUT THEY WANT TO
MAKE IT SOUND REALLY GOOD.
>> THEY ARE SUPPOSEDLY GOING TO
WORK THE SUMMER.
AS WE PUT IT IN, JULY AND
AUGUST.
>> NOBODY FOR YOU.
>> THAT WAS THE MESSAGE, THEY
ALL SAID HEY, IF WE HAVE TO, WE
WILL.
>> THEY DON'T HAVE TO.
>> WELL, YES, BUT I THINK THE
DEFEAT ON TUESDAY LAYS THE
GROUNDWORK FOR A SOLUTION.
I DO.
MAYBE I'M AN ETERNAL OPTIMIST.
BUT PEAK SPEAKING OF THAT,
GOVERNOR SNYDER IS NOT RUNNING
FOR PRESIDENT.
>> OH, MY GOSH, OF COURSE.
CORMER MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE
SURPRISED.
>> IN THE RACE, HE WAS MEASURING
THE CURTAINS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
>> I WAS ON ANOTHER PROGRAM, AND
STEVE MITCHELL WAS VERY BULLISH
ON THE IDEA.
SO HE HAD HIS DEFENDERS.
>> WAS HE EVER RUN?
>> THIS IS WHAT WE SAID ALL
ALONG T. IT DIDN'T HURT FOR HIM
TO KEEP UP THIS.
THERE'S NO REASON AT ANY GIVEN
TIME IF YOUR NAME IS A GOVERNOR
IN THE MIX, WHY WOULD YOU SAY NO
RIGHT AWAY?
THERE WAS NO REASON TO.
I THINK THAT HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT
THE SPECULATION GOING, BUT
UNFORTUNATELY, AS SOME PEOPLE
TALKED IN WASHINGTON AND KIND OF
BLEW HIS COVER, AND HE FELT THE
NEED TO SAY, NO, I'M NOT DOING
IT.
>> AND THERE WAS A 24-HOUR
PERIOD WHERE IT WENT BACK AND
FORTH.
POLITICO SAID HE'S NOT GOING TO
AND THEN WITHIN 24 HOURS--
>> WHEN THEY SAY WE HAVEN'T
MADE A DECISION, IT MEANS THEY
HAVEN'T ANNOUNCED A DECISION.
>> I GOT TWO DIFFERENT
STATEMENTS FROM THE GOVERNOR'S
OFFICE.
ONE WAS THAT NO DECISION HAS
BEEN MADE AND THE OTHER WAS NO
DECISION HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.
>> BUT HIS PURPOSE HERE WAS
TWOFOLD.
ONE, TO USE THAT STORY AS A JUMP
OFF TO TELL THE MICHIGAN STORY.
NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, AND
SECONDLY, I THINK THAT HE
SECRETLY WANTED TO SHAPE THE
DEBATE IN THE REAL RACE FOR
PRESIDENT AMONG THE REPUBLICAN
CANDIDATES, AND LOTS OF LUCK
WITH THAT.
>> AND I BELIEVE THAT DEEM DOWN,
THERE WAS AN IDEA THAT HE DOES
SEE EXTREME CONSERVATIVES AS
PART OF THE PROBLEM.
HE SEES IT EVERY DAY HERE IN
MICHIGAN.
BUT LET'S BE VERY CLEAR, WHAT HE
WILL SAY, A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR
FROM THE MIDWEST, THEY HAVE
OKAYED MEDICAID EXPANSION, BUT
WHAT HE LIKES TO DO IS TALK
ABOUT THIS IDEA OF A MODERATE
CONSENSUS BUILDING.
>> BRIEF WORD ON SCOTT WALKER
COMING TO TOWN, AND WHAT DO YOU
THINK OF HIS ANSWER ON THE AUTO
BAIL OUT PROGRAM?
WHAT DID HE SAY?
>> HE SAID THAT'S THE PAST AND
I'M FOCUSED ON THE FUTURE.
HYPOTHETICAL.
>> HE HAS ANSWERED THAT
QUESTION, AND HE WAS HE HAS
AGAINST IT.
>> WHEN HE WAS IN TOWN, HE
DIDN'T TELL US THE TRUTH.
>> SHOCKING.
>> GUNSHOT GRACIOUS.
>> SO MANY SURPRISES.
>> HOWARD EDELSON IS FOUNDER AND
HEAD OF THE EDELSON GROUP.
HE IS THE FORMER CAMPAIGN
MANAGER FOR GOV. JENNIFER
GRANHOLM.
PRIOR TO THAT, HE WAS A LOBBYIST
FOR CMS ENERGY AND CHIEF OF
STAFF TO FORMER MICHIGAN
CONGRESSMAN, BOB CARR.
HE WAS A FIELD DIRECTOR FOR THE
MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND
WAS GOING TO BE THE CHAIR OF THE
PROPOSAL ONE CAMPAIGN BEFORE THE
GOVERNOR'S OFFICE PICKED SOMEONE
ELSE.
HE HOLDS A BA DEGREE FROM MSU.
.
>> I AM AN OLD HOCKEY PLAYER.
I HAVE OLD INJURIES AND SCARS
THAT I WON'T SHOW YOU.
JONATHAN, PLEASE.
>> SO HOWARD, YOU WERE PART OF
THE TEAM THAT WAS WITH IT THE
WHOLE WAY THROUGH.
AND I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THAT
THEY DID SEE A PATH TO VICTORY.
AND WHAT WAS THAT PATH?
>> THERE WAS A PATH.
WE DID THE INITIAL POLLING AND
AFTER YOU DID THE NEGATIVE
MESSAGING, YOU GOT PEOPLE UP TO
A 56% YES AND 36% NO.
>> ON WHAT ISSUE?
>> IT WAS A MESSAGE PATH THAT
YOU HAD TO TAKE VOTERS THROUGH
AND THE FIRST STEP, REALLY, TO
YOUR POINT OF MESSAGING, RULE
NUMBER ONE, YOU HAVE TO FRAME
THE DEBATE.
YOU HAVE TO DEFINE THE
CANDIDATE, OR IN THIS CASE, YOU
HAVE TO REALLY DEFINE THE BALLOT
MEASURE.
AND BALLOT MEASURES, YOU HAVE TO
EXPLAIN THE ENTIRE BALLOT
MEASURE SO THAT PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND IT.
IN THIS CASE, THE BALLOT MEASURE
WAS ABOUT ROADS, SCHOOLS, AND
THE DITC.
YOU HAD TO EXPLAIN UP FRONT TO
THE VOTERS ALL THREE OF THOSE
COMPONENTS.
>> AND THEY DID NOT.
>> THEY DID NOT.
THEY CHOSE TO GO THE ROAD ROUTE,
AND THAT ALLOWED A COUPLE OF
THINGS TO HAPPEN.
ONE, THE OPPOSITION TO START
FRAMING THE DEBATE ABOUT ALL OF
THE SPECIAL INTEREST THINGS THAT
WERE IN THE BALLOT PROPOSAL.
SO THAT WAS ONE.
AND IT REALLY ALLOWED CONFUSION
TO START TO INCREASE.
BECAUSE IF YOU HAD EXPLAINED ALL
THREE OF THE COMPONENTS OF THE
BALLOT ISSUE UP FRONT, PEOPLE
WOULD SAY, WHERE DID THE SCHOOLS
FROM.
>> GOVERNOR SNYDER BECAME THE
MAIN CHEERLEADER, THE FACE OF
THE CAMPAIGN, AND WAS THAT
SMART?
SHOULD HE NOT HAVE BEEN?
>> WELL, HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A
KEY SPOKESPERSON WITH
REPUBLICANS, BUT WHEN YOU'RE
THINKING ABOUT WHAT PART OF THE
BACKLASH WAS, THIS WAS
ANTI-LANSING, SO YOU DON'T WANT
TO PUT YOUR MOST VISIBLE
SPOKESPERSON, YOU WANT TO MAKE
THIS ISSUE HYPER LOCAL.
YOU WANT PEOPLE AT THE LOCAL
LEVEL BEING YOUR AMBASSADORS,
AND TALKING ABOUT THE MERITS OF
IT.
SO WHAT THEY DID INADVERTENTLY,
BY HAVING THE GOVERNOR AND OTHER
LANSING SPOKES PEOPLE, THEY
ALLOWED THE OPPOSITION TO HAVE A
PROOF POINT.
THIS IS ALL ABOUT LANSING, YOU
CAN'T TRUST THOSE POLITICIANS IN
LANSING.
>> SO HOWARD, TAKE US BEHIND THE
SCENES.
WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT EARLY FALL
OUT WITH YOUR GROUP AND THE
GOVERNOR'S OFFICE?
>> YEAH, WELL IT WASN'T
NECESSARILY A FALLOUT, BUT IT
WAS A DISAGREEMENT AND
PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE.
IT CAME DOWN TO A COUPLE OF
THINGS.
FIRST, BALLOT ISSUES ARE NOT
LIKE CANDIDATE CAMPAIGNS.
YOU HAVE TO THINK BIPARTISAN.
THIS IS NOT A CANDIDATE WHERE,
IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT, YOU HAVE
TO GET ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS ON,
AND THEN YOU GET A FEW OF THE
INDEPENDENTS.
WITH BALLOT MEASURES, YOU NEED
DEMOCRATS AND INDEPENDENTS AND
REPUBLICANS.
>> YOU HAD TOO MANY DEMOCRATS ON
YOUR CAMPAIGN.
>> WE HAD TOO MANY DEMOCRATS--
ACTUALLY, WHAT WE HAVE IS THE
TEAM THAT WORKED ON PROPOSAL ONE
LAST YEAR, AS YOU MENTIONED, WE
WON THAT, 69-31%.
AND NO ONE THOUGHT WE WOULD,
INCLUDING YOU.
>> I COULDN'T HELP MYSELF.
I UNDERSTAND.
>> WE HAD A PROVEN TEAM THAT WAS
BIPARTISAN.
WE WERE BROUGHT ON THAT SAME
TEAM TO THEN DO ROADS.
AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, AS TIM
WAS SAYING, WE HAD TOO MANY
DEMOCRATS, AND THEY WANTED MORE
REPUBLICANS, AND THEY DIDN'T
THINK THAT DEMOCRATS KNEW HOW TO
SPEAK TO REPUBLICANS, AND IN THE
END, THEY WANTED TO BREAK THE
TEAM UP, AND WE HAD A WINNING
TEAM.
AND WE WERE NOT GOING TO ALLOW
OUR TEAM TO BE BROKEN UP, WE
WON, SO ON PRINCIPLE, WE SAID WE
AGREE TO DISAGREE, AND WE LEFT.
>> ONE OF THE REAL FAILURES OF
THE PROPOSAL ONE CAMPAIGN IS
THAT DEMOCRATS WEREN'T SPOKEN
TO.
I MEAN, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN
VERY RESTIVE TO THE SCHOOLS, AND
YOU NEVER SAW THAT MESSAGE.
AND YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATS SEEM TO
BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED, AND WHEN
SOMETHING LOSES 80-20, CLEARLY
MANY DEMOCRATS ARE LOSING.
>> YOU NEED DEMOCRATS AND
REPUBLICANS AND INDEPENDENTS,
AND YOU CAN'T TAKE ANY OF THOSE
GROUPS FOR GRANTED.
>> LET ME TAKE YOU BACK TO THE
ORIGINAL, YOU COULD HAVE WON
THIS THING, AND HOW DO YOU
EXPLAIN IN 30 SECONDS THE
COMPLEXITY OF THIS PLAN?
>> IT'S NOT ONE SPOT.
IT'S A CONVERSATION THAT YOU
HAVE TO HAVE.
WE DID THIS WITH PERSONAL
PROPERTY TAX.
YOU HAVE TO SET UP THE ENTIRE
FRAME OF THE CAMPAIGN.
>> IN WHAT FORM?
YOU TAKE EVERYBODY TO THE LOCAL
BAR AND SIT THEM DOWN?
WHAT DO YOU DO.
>> NO, IT'S A MULTIFACETED
CAMPAIGN, BUT THE FIRST STEP IS
FRAMING IT CORRECTLY.
AND AFTER THAT, YOU CREATE A
POINT OF REFERENCE, SO WHEN YOU
TALK TO VOTERS LATER ABOUT
DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF THE
BALLOT INITIATIVE, YOU'RE ABLE
TO HAVE THEM MORE RESTIVE.
THEY HAVE A FRAME OF REFERENCE,
AND THEY KNOW, SCHOOLS, THEY
TALK ABOUT IT BEFORE.
>> SO DEFINING THE ISSUE AND A
LOT OF OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THE POINT IS THEY TOOK DEMOCRATS
FOR GRANTED.
ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT ROADS AND NOT SCHOOLS.
SCHOOLS IMAGINE IF YOU'RE OTHER
DEMOCRATS AND YOU KNEW WHAT THE
PROPOSAL WAS, AND ALL OF A
SUDDEN, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT
SCHOOLS?
IT KIND OF --THAT DOESN'T MAKE
YOU VERY HAPPY.
>> WAS THERE A PERIOD OF TIME IN
THE LAST SIX MONTHS WHERE YOU
COULD PINPOINT THAT YOU SAW
THERE WAS NO TURNING BACK AND
THIS BALLOT WAS GOING TO GO
DOWN?
WAS THERE ONE POINT IN TIME?
>> I THINK IT WAS A SERIES OF
EVENTS, OF BEGINNING, ONE, WITH
HOW THEY INTRODUCED IT, AND THEN
FOCUSING ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY
THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN.
PEOPLE KNOW THE ROADS WERE BAD,
90% OF THE PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN
THINK THEY'RE LOUSY, SO YOU
DIDN'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT
THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN.
HIT ON IT--
>> THAT'S WHAT YOU PROVIDED TO
THE NEW FOLKS TO FOCUS ON THE
PUBLIC SAFETY THING.
>> WELL--
>> ISN'T IT TRUE.
>> WE DIDN'T PROVIDE THE ROCK.
>> I UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU
PROVIDED THE DATA ABOUT THE
ROCK.
>> THE DATA, THAT'S PART OF THE
MESSAGE.
WHAT THEY DID, THEY KEPT ON THE
PUBLIC SAFETY, THE ROCK IF YOU
WILL, THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN, AND
IN SOME STRETCHES, IT WAS A
MONTH WHERE THEY WERE JUST
TALKING ABOUT THE ROCK.
THE PET ROCK IF YOU WILL.
>> I THINK ALL OF US AT THIS
TABLE HAVE OUR OWN ROCKS.
>> PEOPLE KNEW THAT, BUT THEY
HAD TO MOVE ON.
THEY HAD TO GO ON AND TALK ABOUT
THE OTHER BENEFITS OF THE BILL,
THE PROPOSAL, THE DEVELOPMENT.
YOU DIDN'T HEAR THE FARM BUREAU
TALK ABOUT WHY THIS WAS
IMPORTANT FOR AGRICULTURE, AND
YOU DIDN'T HEAR TEACHERS
STRONGLY TALKING ABOUT WHY THIS
IS GOOD FOR SCHOOLS.
THE TOURISM INDUSTRY, WHY HAVING
BETTER ROADS WILL GET MORE
PEOPLE.
YOU DIDN'T HEAR ANY OF THAT.
>> WAS THAT THE CAMPAIGN'S FAULT
ALSO FOR NOT ENGAGING?
SHOULD OTHER GROUPS HAVE SAID,
IT'S OKAY, AND WE WERE GOING TO
TAKE IT ON OUR OWN TO PUSH THIS.
>> THE CAMPAIGNS ARE RESPONSIBLE
FOR THE CAMPAIGN STRATEGY AND
PLAN AND EXECUTION.
SO IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THE
CAMPAIGN.
>> THE SALES TAX FOR THE
GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IN THIS
CAMPAIGN?
>> WELL, A LOT.
CERTAINLY, THE GOVERNOR'S
POLITICAL PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED,
AND SO THEY HAD A GREAT
INFLUENCE.
>> THEY MADE--
>> THEY COULD HAVE DONE A
BETTER JOB IN RUNNING THIS
CAMPAIGN.
>> THEY DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE?
>> THEY COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER
JOB.
>> ONE OF THOSE HAS BEEN THE
COMPLEXITY OF PROPOSAL 1, BUT ON
BALANCE, YOU WORKED ON THE PTT
ISSUE, DOES ANYBODY WHAT THAT
IS?
THERE IS A WAY TO MESSAGE
COMPLEX POLICY, CORRECT.
>> HERE'S THE THING.
PEOPLE CONFUSE-- OR I SHOULD
SAY, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN COMPLICATED AND
CONFUSING.
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
COMPLICATED AND CONFUSING.
A CAMPAIGN'S JOB IS TO TAKE A
COMPLICATED ISSUE AND MAKE IT
SIMPLE, SO THAT IT ISN'T
CONFUSING.
A NO VOTE ON BALLOT INITIATIVES,
IT'S BEST FRIEND IS CONFUSION
AND UNCERTAINTY.
YOU KNOW THAT UP FRONT.
SO AGAIN, IT'S HOW YOU FRAME
THIS DEBATE AT THE VERY
BEGINNING, YOU HAD TO LAY THIS
ALL OUT AND YOU HAD TO REDUCE
CONFUSION, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
COMPLICATED AND CONFUSING, AND
YOU CAN EXPLAIN.
THERE ARE SIMPLE, CLEAR TERMS,
COMPLICATED.
AND WE DID THAT IN PROPOSAL ONE
OR PP2.
>> PULLING 56, ONE PAST THAT,
BALLOT QUESTIONS TYPICALLY GO
DOWN, RIGHT?
I MEAN, THIS IS STILL A LONG
SHOT FROM THE BEGINNING, WAS IT
NOT?
>> I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS AN
EASY CAMPAIGN.
ANY STATEWIDE CAMPAIGN, IT'S A
BIG UNDERTAKING.
ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU HAVE A BIG
ORGANIZATION THAT COMES OUT OF
NOWHERE, IT'S 20, $30 MILLION,
JUST LIKE THAT.
SO THEY'RE NOT EASY ENDEAVORS.
BUT THAT'S WHY, IF YOU'RE
FOCUSED, AND YOU HAVE RESEARCH,
DATA DRIVEN STRATEGY, YOU CAN
FIND A MESSAGE FOR VOTERS, AND
YOU CAN CONTROL THE THINGS THAT
YOU CAN CONTROL.
>> IS THE SALES TAX INITIATIVE
DEAD?
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
PEOPLE IN THE POLLING IN EARLY
JANUARY, THEY WERE WILLING TO
PAY MORE.
54% OF THE PEOPLE SAID WE'RE
WILLING TO PAY MORE TO FIX THE
ROADS IF IT'S LONG-TERM AND
PERMANENT AND WE'RE DONE WITH
THE BANDAID APPROACH.
>> SO CLEAN PROPOSAL IN NOVEMBER
WOULD PASS?
>> I THINK THAT IT HAS A BETTER
CHANCE OF PASSING THAN ONE THAT
HAS DIFFERENT COMPONENTS.
AND THE OTHER THING TOO, YOU
MENTIONED THAT MAYBE IT'S A
HYBRID, MAYBE IT'S CUTS, MAYBE
IT'S A SALES TAX INCREASE.
A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT YOU
CAN CUT THE BUDGET MORE.
AND WHETHER YOU CAN OR NOT, I
DON'T KNOW.
BUT IF PEOPLE BELIEVE IT, FEED
THEM SOMETHING.
>> HOW ABOUT PASSION THE GAS
TAX?
>> I THINK HE'S ONTO SOMETHING.
>> REALLY?
SO DO THE LEGISLATORS EVER CALL
YOU UP?
WHEN THEY DO, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY
TO THEM?
>> I THINK I WOULD TELL THEM
THAT LOOK, YOU HAVE TO GET THIS
DONE, ONE.
THE SPOTLIGHT IS ON LANSING.
THE VOTERS HAVE SPOKEN, THEY
WANT THIS FIXED.
THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE LAST
PROPOSAL.
GET IT DONE.
AND YOU KNOW, HOW THEY DO THAT,
THAT'S FOR THE POLICYMAKERS TO
FIGURE THAT OUT.
>> 10 SECONDS, WHEN ASKED TO RUN
A NEW CAMPAIGN FOR A SALES TAX
IN NOVEMBER, WOULD YOU SIGN UP?
BASED ON WHAT IT IS.
>> I JUST GAVE IT TO YOU, YOU
KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
GOOD TO SEE YOU AND THANKS TO
OUR COLLEAGUES.
NEXT WEEK, WE'LL BE HERE FOR
MORE "OFF THE RECORD."
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