>> WELCOME BACK.

POLITICAL CONSULTANT HOWARD

EDELSON IS OUR GUEST THIS WEEK

WITH SOME INSIDER REFLECTIONS ON

PROPOSAL ONE.

THE CRUSHING DEFEAT OF THE SALES

TAX HIKE IS OUR LEAD STORY AND

HERE TO DIGEST IT ARE:

ZOE CLARK, JONATHON OOSTING, AND

SUSAN DEMAS.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE

INSIDE, OUT..."OFF THE RECORD. "

PRODUCTION OF-OFF IS MADE

POSSIBLE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM, AND

YES OR NO, WERE YOU SURPRISED BY

TUESDAY'S ELECTION RESULTS?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> NO.

>> NOT THAT SURPRISED, BUT FOR

THE ONE.

>> I HAD 65-35 IN THE POOL.

>> I HAD 68.

AND NO ONE THOUGHT 80/20, THE

WORST IN DECADES AND DECADES.

>> AND YEARS.

BUT WHO IS COUNTING?

>> THEY HAD IT AT 29,000, THE

POLL, BUT THEY ARE.

>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT

HAPPENED THE DAY AFTER IF WE

CAN.

AFTER THE GOVERNOR TO BED IN THE

TOWEL LAST NIGHT ON PROPOSAL

ONE, DEMOCRATS TODAY WERE

COMPLAINING THAT THERE WAS NO

SENSE OF URGENCY IN THE

REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE, AS SOME

LAWMAKERS WERE IN HOLLAND AT THE

TULIP FESTIVAL.

>> I THINK THIS HAS BEEN A

STANDARD THING AS LONG AS I'VE

BEEN HERE.

THIS IS MY THIRD TERM, AND I

THINK THEY HAVE DONE IT EVERY

YEAR, AND I DON'T THINK THAT IT

HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE

ELECTION.

>> IT'S A SHAME THAT THE

REPUBLICANS ARE TIPTOEING

THROUGH THE TULIPS IN HOLLAND

INSTEAD OF DOING THEIR JOB.

>> THIS IS TRADITION.

>> THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT

THINGS.

>> LUCKILY, THE LEGISLATURE IS

OFF.

BUT HIS COUNTERPART IS WILLING

TO WORK IN THE SUMMER.

BUT GIVING THE ORDER TO WORK

DURING THE SUMMER, THE GOVERNOR

PARTICIPATED.

>> THEY SAID THEIR SCHEDULE--

>> THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER

SAID HE IS OPEN TO A SUMMER

SESSION, BUT HE WANTS TO GET

THIS DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

ON THE SALES FRONT, 64% OF THE

VOTERS WOULD FAVOR A STAND-ALONE

SALES TAX HIKE IF ALL OF THE

MONEY WENT TO THE ROADS.

THE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER IS NOT

SURE THAT THE CRUMBLING ROADS

CAN WAIT FOR A VOTE ON THAT.

>> THE SALES TAX WAS VIEWED IN

THE BEST SOURCE FOR NEW REVENUE,

AND I THINK NOW THAT HAS BEEN

TAKEN OFF THE TABLE, BECAUSE

WHILE THE VOTERS MAY NOT OPPOSE

A STAND-ALONE, WE HAVE TO BE

SENSITIVE TO THE TIMING, BECAUSE

THE COST IS GOING UP BY THE DAY.

>> AS FOR THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS,

IS THE SALES TAX OPTION DEAD.

>> I THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO

BE RELUCTANT TO PUT A SALES TAX

OPTION BEFORE THE VOTERS AFTER

YESTERDAY.

>> SO, GIVE US 20 SECONDS ON WHY

THIS FAILED, OTHER THAN THE FACT

THAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT.

>> ONLY 20 SECONDS?

THERE'S EVERY REASON.

SOME DON'T LIKE TAXES AND SOME

DON'T LIKE THE REPUBLICAN

GOVERNMENT AND SOME THOUGHT THAT

IT WAS TOO CONFUSING.

I THINK THAT EVERYBODY AGREES

THAT THE MESSAGE WAS TERRIBLE.

>> I THINK THAT EVERYBODY IS

ANGRY.

>> WITHOUT TIMEOUT HIGHER THAN

PEOPLE THOUGHT, THEY HAD STRONG

FEELINGS ON THIS ISSUE.

IT WAS NOT PERSONAL PROPERTY

TAXES FROM LAST YEAR.

PEOPLE KNEW ABOUT THIS, AND THEY

WERE AWARE, AND THEY GOT OUT

THERE AND VOTED.

STILL RELATIVELY LOW TIMEOUT.

>> FOR A MAY-- I THINK THAT A

LOT OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE

IDEA THAT I HEARD OVER AND OVER

AGAIN, WHICH WAS, WE DON'T WANT

TO SAY OKAY TO PUNTING THE ISSUE

TO VOTERS.

>> THAT'S YOUR JOB, LANSING.

>> EXACTLY.

AND WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE SAID

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY

COULD HAVE SUPPORTED OR PARTS OF

IT, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO REWARD

LAWMAKERS.

>> BRING A BALLOT PROPOSAL OF

THE PAST WITHOUT THE GOODIES IN

64% OF THE PEOPLE SUPPORT THAT.

>> BUT AGAIN, THIS GOES TO THE

POLITICAL REALITY THAT THAT WAS

IMPOSSIBLE AT THE TIME.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT

EVERYBODY LOOKS AT.

THIS WOULD HAVE PASSED AND IT

WOULD HAVE, BUT THE POLITICAL

DYNAMICS IN THE SUMMER.

>> WANTED POLITICAL PARTY ON

THIS, CORRECT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK TO LOOK TO THE

GOVERNOR TO SOME KIND OF

RELATIONSHIP WITH DEMOCRATS AS

HE DID.

WHY THE EITC WAS PART OF THE

BALLOT AND WHY MONEY FOR

EDUCATION IS PART OF THE BALLOT

AND HE HAS TO LOOK AT THAT TOO.

>> I'M NOT SURE WHAT A CLEAN

PROPOSAL OF THE PAST IS, BECAUSE

PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE

MONEY FOR ROADS IS NOT THERE.

I PAY MY MONEY AT THE PUMPS IS

AND WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING?

AND IF YOU DID NOT EXPLAIN THAT

TO THEM, PEOPLE DO NOT TRUST

LAWMAKERS AND THE GOVERNOR ON

THIS ISSUE.

>> AND AS WE KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T

GENERALLY VOTE TO RAISE THEIR

OWN TAXES ON A STATE-WIDE

PROPOSAL.

>> NO, YOU HAD PROPOSAL A, BUT

THAT WAS A TAX CUT.

AND ACTUALLY RAISING TAXES, THAT

FELL TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

>> AND IT GOES BACK TO THERE

WASN'T AN EITHER/OR PLAN, YOU'RE

NOT VOTING FOR OPTION ONE OR

TWO.

THIS WAS VOTE FOR THIS OR NOT,

AND WE'LL GO BACK TO THE DRAWING

BOARD.

THE OPPONENTS KEPT SAYING, THIS

IS NOT A PLAN B.

BUT VOTERS DEEP DOWN KNEW, WE'RE

GOING TO SAY NO, AND FOLKS WILL

COME BACK TOGETHER FOR GOOD OR

WORSE, AND IF THE ROADS ARE SO

BAD, WE'LL NEED TO COME UP WITH

ANOTHER OPTION.

>> LET'S PURSUE THIS OTHER

OPTION, DO YOU THINK THAT THE

SALES TAX IS DEAD AS AN OPTION.

>> YES, I DON'T THINK FOR

ANYBODY TO DO BACK TO THE

BALLOT, THAT SAID, IF WE HAVE

ANOTHER TWO YEARS OF LEGISLATIVE

DEBATE, IF NOTHING HAPPENS,

THERE COULD BE A PLAN B.

>> AND LAWMAKERS?

>> SOME LAWMAKERS HAVE SAID IT,

THEY'RE NOT COMPLETELY SAYING NO

TO EVERYTHING.

>> THE GOVERNOR SAID, YOU ASKED

HIM A QUESTION IF IT'S REVENUE

INCREASE, AND HE SAID I DIDN'T

READ IT THAT WAY.

HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS.

CRYSTAL BALL, HYBRID PLAN.

BUDGET CUTS, RAISE A LITTLE

MONEY, PUT THE SALES TAX BACK ON

THE BALLOT.

BUT FIRST PASSION THE GAS TAX

FIRST, WHICH NOBODY LIKES, AND

GIVE THE PEOPLE A CHOICE.

BERNIE IN THE BRIEFING THAT WE

HAD WITH HIM.

THE GAS TAX, AND PEOPLE DON'T

LIKE THAT, VOTE FOR THE SALES

TAX, YES, NO.

>> YOU HAVE SPEAKER CONNOR AND

REPUBLICANS SAYING THAT THIS IS

A MANDATE FOR NO TAXES.

>> HE SAYS NOT NECESSARILY, BUT

THE PLAN IS GOING TO PRESENT IS

MOSTLY EXISTING REVENUE.

>> BUT YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT HIM

TO START WITH A PLAN FOR TAX

INCREASE, WOULD YOU?

>> NO, BUT YOU HAD A

REPUBLICAN-LED GOVERNMENT.

AND THIS WAS A HUGE, HUGE DEFEAT

FOR TAX INCREASE.

THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION THAT MANY

PEOPLE, LIKE SENATOR BRANDONBERG

HAVE COME TO, CUT TAXES OVER

TIME.

>> BUT I TALKED TO SENATOR

KAUFAX YESTERDAY, AND HE OPENED

THE DOOR JUST A SCOSHE, AND IF

WE CAN'T COME UP WITH ENOUGH

MONEY, WE MIGHT HAVE TO RAISE

TAXES.

>> IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT PEOPLE

LIKE HIM FOR A TAX INCREASE,

IT'S SAYING THAT THIS IS NOT

DOING VERY WELL.

>> I THINK THAT EVERYBODY IS

GOING TO TAKE THE MESSAGE THAT

WENT TO.

AND I HAVE A SHOUT OUT TO

JONATHON OOSTING, THE TWEET OF

THE NIGHT.

>> IT'S A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT

NOBODY AGREEING.

>> AND YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE WHAT

YOU WANT OUT OF THAT.

SO THEY ARE GOING TO SAY THIS IS

ABSOLUTELY PURELY ABOUT NO NEW

TAXES, AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE

GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ELSE.

SNYDER IS GOING TO SAY SOMETHING

ELSE.

WE STILL NEED TO DO THE ROADS.

AND FOR POLITICS, THAT'S HOW IT

WORKS.

AFTER ANY ELECTION, YOU SAY WE

HAVE TO DO IT MY WAY.

>> DID I INTERPRET THE

GOVERNOR'S COMMENTS TO SAY THAT

HE IS NOW WAITING FOR WHAT THE

LEGISLATURE DOES?

>> WELL, HE AND MICOFF USED

SIMILAR LANGUAGE, IT'S GOING TO

BE A GIVE PROCESS.

>> HAVING LED ON THIS AND LOST,

OKAY, GUYS, PLEASE.

>> NOT JUST LEAD ON IT IN THE

PAST SIX MONTHS, BUT SINCE 2011,

HE HAS HAD ON ONE OF HIS AGENDA

ITEMS.

>> HE HAS LED ON THIS, BUT LET'S

ALSO REMEMBER THAT HE FIRST

PROPOSED THE GAS TAX AND THE

REGISTRATION TAX INCREASE, AND

THAT WENT NOWHERE.

THE LEGISLATOR, AND HE WAS THERE

IN THE BACKGROUND HAVING STEERED

THE SHIP.

BUT TWO YEARS LATER, THIS IS

WHAT THEY CAME UP WITH.

>> I THINK THAT NEW REVENUE WILL

BE PARTLY OF THIS PACKAGE.

TELL ME I'M STUPID, BUT I THINK

IT WILL BE THERE.

>> HOW DO THEY GET TO

$1.2 BILLION?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY DO.

>> CAN THEY OFF CUT THE BUDGET

TO $1.2 MILLION?

>> THEY CAN, BUT I DON'T THINK

THAT THEY WILL COME UP WITH A

SOLUTION.

AND THIS IS WHY YOU'RE NOW

HEARING ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT

IDEAS.

THE CATASTROPHIC FUND, RIGHT?

OH, THERE'S MONEY HERE.

OH, THERE'S THE WASTE, FRAUD AND

ABUSE IDEA.

>> GOVERNMENT.

>> BUT IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE

$1.2 BILLION.

IF THIS ISN'T FINDING YOU A

COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS,

NOT JUST $1.2 BILLION.

>> IF THEY REALLY WANTED TO DO

THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION

WARRANTIES, THAT WOULD MAKE A

HUGE DIFFERENCE, AND THEY COULD

RUN WITH IT, BUT THEY WANT TO

MAKE IT SOUND REALLY GOOD.

>> THEY ARE SUPPOSEDLY GOING TO

WORK THE SUMMER.

AS WE PUT IT IN, JULY AND

AUGUST.

>> NOBODY FOR YOU.

>> THAT WAS THE MESSAGE, THEY

ALL SAID HEY, IF WE HAVE TO, WE

WILL.

>> THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

>> WELL, YES, BUT I THINK THE

DEFEAT ON TUESDAY LAYS THE

GROUNDWORK FOR A SOLUTION.

I DO.

MAYBE I'M AN ETERNAL OPTIMIST.

BUT PEAK SPEAKING OF THAT,

GOVERNOR SNYDER IS NOT RUNNING

FOR PRESIDENT.

>> OH, MY GOSH, OF COURSE.

CORMER MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE

SURPRISED.

>> IN THE RACE, HE WAS MEASURING

THE CURTAINS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> I WAS ON ANOTHER PROGRAM, AND

STEVE MITCHELL WAS VERY BULLISH

ON THE IDEA.

SO HE HAD HIS DEFENDERS.

>> WAS HE EVER RUN?

>> THIS IS WHAT WE SAID ALL

ALONG T. IT DIDN'T HURT FOR HIM

TO KEEP UP THIS.

THERE'S NO REASON AT ANY GIVEN

TIME IF YOUR NAME IS A GOVERNOR

IN THE MIX, WHY WOULD YOU SAY NO

RIGHT AWAY?

THERE WAS NO REASON TO.

I THINK THAT HE SHOULD HAVE KEPT

THE SPECULATION GOING, BUT

UNFORTUNATELY, AS SOME PEOPLE

TALKED IN WASHINGTON AND KIND OF

BLEW HIS COVER, AND HE FELT THE

NEED TO SAY, NO, I'M NOT DOING

IT.

>> AND THERE WAS A 24-HOUR

PERIOD WHERE IT WENT BACK AND

FORTH.

POLITICO SAID HE'S NOT GOING TO

AND THEN WITHIN 24 HOURS--

>> WHEN THEY SAY WE HAVEN'T

MADE A DECISION, IT MEANS THEY

HAVEN'T ANNOUNCED A DECISION.

>> I GOT TWO DIFFERENT

STATEMENTS FROM THE GOVERNOR'S

OFFICE.

ONE WAS THAT NO DECISION HAS

BEEN MADE AND THE OTHER WAS NO

DECISION HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.

>> BUT HIS PURPOSE HERE WAS

TWOFOLD.

ONE, TO USE THAT STORY AS A JUMP

OFF TO TELL THE MICHIGAN STORY.

NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, AND

SECONDLY, I THINK THAT HE

SECRETLY WANTED TO SHAPE THE

DEBATE IN THE REAL RACE FOR

PRESIDENT AMONG THE REPUBLICAN

CANDIDATES, AND LOTS OF LUCK

WITH THAT.

>> AND I BELIEVE THAT DEEM DOWN,

THERE WAS AN IDEA THAT HE DOES

SEE EXTREME CONSERVATIVES AS

PART OF THE PROBLEM.

HE SEES IT EVERY DAY HERE IN

MICHIGAN.

BUT LET'S BE VERY CLEAR, WHAT HE

WILL SAY, A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR

FROM THE MIDWEST, THEY HAVE

OKAYED MEDICAID EXPANSION, BUT

WHAT HE LIKES TO DO IS TALK

ABOUT THIS IDEA OF A MODERATE

CONSENSUS BUILDING.

>> BRIEF WORD ON SCOTT WALKER

COMING TO TOWN, AND WHAT DO YOU

THINK OF HIS ANSWER ON THE AUTO

BAIL OUT PROGRAM?

WHAT DID HE SAY?

>> HE SAID THAT'S THE PAST AND

I'M FOCUSED ON THE FUTURE.

HYPOTHETICAL.

>> HE HAS ANSWERED THAT

QUESTION, AND HE WAS HE HAS

AGAINST IT.

>> WHEN HE WAS IN TOWN, HE

DIDN'T TELL US THE TRUTH.

>> SHOCKING.

>> GUNSHOT GRACIOUS.

>> SO MANY SURPRISES.

>> HOWARD EDELSON IS FOUNDER AND

HEAD OF THE EDELSON GROUP.

HE IS THE FORMER CAMPAIGN

MANAGER FOR GOV. JENNIFER

GRANHOLM.

PRIOR TO THAT, HE WAS A LOBBYIST

FOR CMS ENERGY AND CHIEF OF

STAFF TO FORMER MICHIGAN

CONGRESSMAN, BOB CARR.

HE WAS A FIELD DIRECTOR FOR THE

MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND

WAS GOING TO BE THE CHAIR OF THE

PROPOSAL ONE CAMPAIGN BEFORE THE

GOVERNOR'S OFFICE PICKED SOMEONE

ELSE.

HE HOLDS A BA DEGREE FROM MSU.

.

>> I AM AN OLD HOCKEY PLAYER.

I HAVE OLD INJURIES AND SCARS

THAT I WON'T SHOW YOU.

JONATHAN, PLEASE.

>> SO HOWARD, YOU WERE PART OF

THE TEAM THAT WAS WITH IT THE

WHOLE WAY THROUGH.

AND I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THAT

THEY DID SEE A PATH TO VICTORY.

AND WHAT WAS THAT PATH?

>> THERE WAS A PATH.

WE DID THE INITIAL POLLING AND

AFTER YOU DID THE NEGATIVE

MESSAGING, YOU GOT PEOPLE UP TO

A 56% YES AND 36% NO.

>> ON WHAT ISSUE?

>> IT WAS A MESSAGE PATH THAT

YOU HAD TO TAKE VOTERS THROUGH

AND THE FIRST STEP, REALLY, TO

YOUR POINT OF MESSAGING, RULE

NUMBER ONE, YOU HAVE TO FRAME

THE DEBATE.

YOU HAVE TO DEFINE THE

CANDIDATE, OR IN THIS CASE, YOU

HAVE TO REALLY DEFINE THE BALLOT

MEASURE.

AND BALLOT MEASURES, YOU HAVE TO

EXPLAIN THE ENTIRE BALLOT

MEASURE SO THAT PEOPLE

UNDERSTAND IT.

IN THIS CASE, THE BALLOT MEASURE

WAS ABOUT ROADS, SCHOOLS, AND

THE DITC.

YOU HAD TO EXPLAIN UP FRONT TO

THE VOTERS ALL THREE OF THOSE

COMPONENTS.

>> AND THEY DID NOT.

>> THEY DID NOT.

THEY CHOSE TO GO THE ROAD ROUTE,

AND THAT ALLOWED A COUPLE OF

THINGS TO HAPPEN.

ONE, THE OPPOSITION TO START

FRAMING THE DEBATE ABOUT ALL OF

THE SPECIAL INTEREST THINGS THAT

WERE IN THE BALLOT PROPOSAL.

SO THAT WAS ONE.

AND IT REALLY ALLOWED CONFUSION

TO START TO INCREASE.

BECAUSE IF YOU HAD EXPLAINED ALL

THREE OF THE COMPONENTS OF THE

BALLOT ISSUE UP FRONT, PEOPLE

WOULD SAY, WHERE DID THE SCHOOLS

FROM.

>> GOVERNOR SNYDER BECAME THE

MAIN CHEERLEADER, THE FACE OF

THE CAMPAIGN, AND WAS THAT

SMART?

SHOULD HE NOT HAVE BEEN?

>> WELL, HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A

KEY SPOKESPERSON WITH

REPUBLICANS, BUT WHEN YOU'RE

THINKING ABOUT WHAT PART OF THE

BACKLASH WAS, THIS WAS

ANTI-LANSING, SO YOU DON'T WANT

TO PUT YOUR MOST VISIBLE

SPOKESPERSON, YOU WANT TO MAKE

THIS ISSUE HYPER LOCAL.

YOU WANT PEOPLE AT THE LOCAL

LEVEL BEING YOUR AMBASSADORS,

AND TALKING ABOUT THE MERITS OF

IT.

SO WHAT THEY DID INADVERTENTLY,

BY HAVING THE GOVERNOR AND OTHER

LANSING SPOKES PEOPLE, THEY

ALLOWED THE OPPOSITION TO HAVE A

PROOF POINT.

THIS IS ALL ABOUT LANSING, YOU

CAN'T TRUST THOSE POLITICIANS IN

LANSING.

>> SO HOWARD, TAKE US BEHIND THE

SCENES.

WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT EARLY FALL

OUT WITH YOUR GROUP AND THE

GOVERNOR'S OFFICE?

>> YEAH, WELL IT WASN'T

NECESSARILY A FALLOUT, BUT IT

WAS A DISAGREEMENT AND

PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE.

IT CAME DOWN TO A COUPLE OF

THINGS.

FIRST, BALLOT ISSUES ARE NOT

LIKE CANDIDATE CAMPAIGNS.

YOU HAVE TO THINK BIPARTISAN.

THIS IS NOT A CANDIDATE WHERE,

IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT, YOU HAVE

TO GET ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS ON,

AND THEN YOU GET A FEW OF THE

INDEPENDENTS.

WITH BALLOT MEASURES, YOU NEED

DEMOCRATS AND INDEPENDENTS AND

REPUBLICANS.

>> YOU HAD TOO MANY DEMOCRATS ON

YOUR CAMPAIGN.

>> WE HAD TOO MANY DEMOCRATS--

ACTUALLY, WHAT WE HAVE IS THE

TEAM THAT WORKED ON PROPOSAL ONE

LAST YEAR, AS YOU MENTIONED, WE

WON THAT, 69-31%.

AND NO ONE THOUGHT WE WOULD,

INCLUDING YOU.

>> I COULDN'T HELP MYSELF.

I UNDERSTAND.

>> WE HAD A PROVEN TEAM THAT WAS

BIPARTISAN.

WE WERE BROUGHT ON THAT SAME

TEAM TO THEN DO ROADS.

AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, AS TIM

WAS SAYING, WE HAD TOO MANY

DEMOCRATS, AND THEY WANTED MORE

REPUBLICANS, AND THEY DIDN'T

THINK THAT DEMOCRATS KNEW HOW TO

SPEAK TO REPUBLICANS, AND IN THE

END, THEY WANTED TO BREAK THE

TEAM UP, AND WE HAD A WINNING

TEAM.

AND WE WERE NOT GOING TO ALLOW

OUR TEAM TO BE BROKEN UP, WE

WON, SO ON PRINCIPLE, WE SAID WE

AGREE TO DISAGREE, AND WE LEFT.

>> ONE OF THE REAL FAILURES OF

THE PROPOSAL ONE CAMPAIGN IS

THAT DEMOCRATS WEREN'T SPOKEN

TO.

I MEAN, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN

VERY RESTIVE TO THE SCHOOLS, AND

YOU NEVER SAW THAT MESSAGE.

AND YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATS SEEM TO

BE TAKEN FOR GRANTED, AND WHEN

SOMETHING LOSES 80-20, CLEARLY

MANY DEMOCRATS ARE LOSING.

>> YOU NEED DEMOCRATS AND

REPUBLICANS AND INDEPENDENTS,

AND YOU CAN'T TAKE ANY OF THOSE

GROUPS FOR GRANTED.

>> LET ME TAKE YOU BACK TO THE

ORIGINAL, YOU COULD HAVE WON

THIS THING, AND HOW DO YOU

EXPLAIN IN 30 SECONDS THE

COMPLEXITY OF THIS PLAN?

>> IT'S NOT ONE SPOT.

IT'S A CONVERSATION THAT YOU

HAVE TO HAVE.

WE DID THIS WITH PERSONAL

PROPERTY TAX.

YOU HAVE TO SET UP THE ENTIRE

FRAME OF THE CAMPAIGN.

>> IN WHAT FORM?

YOU TAKE EVERYBODY TO THE LOCAL

BAR AND SIT THEM DOWN?

WHAT DO YOU DO.

>> NO, IT'S A MULTIFACETED

CAMPAIGN, BUT THE FIRST STEP IS

FRAMING IT CORRECTLY.

AND AFTER THAT, YOU CREATE A

POINT OF REFERENCE, SO WHEN YOU

TALK TO VOTERS LATER ABOUT

DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF THE

BALLOT INITIATIVE, YOU'RE ABLE

TO HAVE THEM MORE RESTIVE.

THEY HAVE A FRAME OF REFERENCE,

AND THEY KNOW, SCHOOLS, THEY

TALK ABOUT IT BEFORE.

>> SO DEFINING THE ISSUE AND A

LOT OF OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE POINT IS THEY TOOK DEMOCRATS

FOR GRANTED.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT ROADS AND NOT SCHOOLS.

SCHOOLS IMAGINE IF YOU'RE OTHER

DEMOCRATS AND YOU KNEW WHAT THE

PROPOSAL WAS, AND ALL OF A

SUDDEN, YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT

SCHOOLS?

IT KIND OF --THAT DOESN'T MAKE

YOU VERY HAPPY.

>> WAS THERE A PERIOD OF TIME IN

THE LAST SIX MONTHS WHERE YOU

COULD PINPOINT THAT YOU SAW

THERE WAS NO TURNING BACK AND

THIS BALLOT WAS GOING TO GO

DOWN?

WAS THERE ONE POINT IN TIME?

>> I THINK IT WAS A SERIES OF

EVENTS, OF BEGINNING, ONE, WITH

HOW THEY INTRODUCED IT, AND THEN

FOCUSING ON THE PUBLIC SAFETY

THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN.

PEOPLE KNOW THE ROADS WERE BAD,

90% OF THE PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN

THINK THEY'RE LOUSY, SO YOU

DIDN'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT

THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN.

HIT ON IT--

>> THAT'S WHAT YOU PROVIDED TO

THE NEW FOLKS TO FOCUS ON THE

PUBLIC SAFETY THING.

>> WELL--

>> ISN'T IT TRUE.

>> WE DIDN'T PROVIDE THE ROCK.

>> I UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU

PROVIDED THE DATA ABOUT THE

ROCK.

>> THE DATA, THAT'S PART OF THE

MESSAGE.

WHAT THEY DID, THEY KEPT ON THE

PUBLIC SAFETY, THE ROCK IF YOU

WILL, THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN, AND

IN SOME STRETCHES, IT WAS A

MONTH WHERE THEY WERE JUST

TALKING ABOUT THE ROCK.

THE PET ROCK IF YOU WILL.

>> I THINK ALL OF US AT THIS

TABLE HAVE OUR OWN ROCKS.

>> PEOPLE KNEW THAT, BUT THEY

HAD TO MOVE ON.

THEY HAD TO GO ON AND TALK ABOUT

THE OTHER BENEFITS OF THE BILL,

THE PROPOSAL, THE DEVELOPMENT.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR THE FARM BUREAU

TALK ABOUT WHY THIS WAS

IMPORTANT FOR AGRICULTURE, AND

YOU DIDN'T HEAR TEACHERS

STRONGLY TALKING ABOUT WHY THIS

IS GOOD FOR SCHOOLS.

THE TOURISM INDUSTRY, WHY HAVING

BETTER ROADS WILL GET MORE

PEOPLE.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR ANY OF THAT.

>> WAS THAT THE CAMPAIGN'S FAULT

ALSO FOR NOT ENGAGING?

SHOULD OTHER GROUPS HAVE SAID,

IT'S OKAY, AND WE WERE GOING TO

TAKE IT ON OUR OWN TO PUSH THIS.

>> THE CAMPAIGNS ARE RESPONSIBLE

FOR THE CAMPAIGN STRATEGY AND

PLAN AND EXECUTION.

SO IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THE

CAMPAIGN.

>> THE SALES TAX FOR THE

GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IN THIS

CAMPAIGN?

>> WELL, A LOT.

CERTAINLY, THE GOVERNOR'S

POLITICAL PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED,

AND SO THEY HAD A GREAT

INFLUENCE.

>> THEY MADE--

>> THEY COULD HAVE DONE A

BETTER JOB IN RUNNING THIS

CAMPAIGN.

>> THEY DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE?

>> THEY COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER

JOB.

>> ONE OF THOSE HAS BEEN THE

COMPLEXITY OF PROPOSAL 1, BUT ON

BALANCE, YOU WORKED ON THE PTT

ISSUE, DOES ANYBODY WHAT THAT

IS?

THERE IS A WAY TO MESSAGE

COMPLEX POLICY, CORRECT.

>> HERE'S THE THING.

PEOPLE CONFUSE-- OR I SHOULD

SAY, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE

BETWEEN COMPLICATED AND

CONFUSING.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

COMPLICATED AND CONFUSING.

A CAMPAIGN'S JOB IS TO TAKE A

COMPLICATED ISSUE AND MAKE IT

SIMPLE, SO THAT IT ISN'T

CONFUSING.

A NO VOTE ON BALLOT INITIATIVES,

IT'S BEST FRIEND IS CONFUSION

AND UNCERTAINTY.

YOU KNOW THAT UP FRONT.

SO AGAIN, IT'S HOW YOU FRAME

THIS DEBATE AT THE VERY

BEGINNING, YOU HAD TO LAY THIS

ALL OUT AND YOU HAD TO REDUCE

CONFUSION, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.

THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

COMPLICATED AND CONFUSING, AND

YOU CAN EXPLAIN.

THERE ARE SIMPLE, CLEAR TERMS,

COMPLICATED.

AND WE DID THAT IN PROPOSAL ONE

OR PP2.

>> PULLING 56, ONE PAST THAT,

BALLOT QUESTIONS TYPICALLY GO

DOWN, RIGHT?

I MEAN, THIS IS STILL A LONG

SHOT FROM THE BEGINNING, WAS IT

NOT?

>> I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS AN

EASY CAMPAIGN.

ANY STATEWIDE CAMPAIGN, IT'S A

BIG UNDERTAKING.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU HAVE A BIG

ORGANIZATION THAT COMES OUT OF

NOWHERE, IT'S 20, $30 MILLION,

JUST LIKE THAT.

SO THEY'RE NOT EASY ENDEAVORS.

BUT THAT'S WHY, IF YOU'RE

FOCUSED, AND YOU HAVE RESEARCH,

DATA DRIVEN STRATEGY, YOU CAN

FIND A MESSAGE FOR VOTERS, AND

YOU CAN CONTROL THE THINGS THAT

YOU CAN CONTROL.

>> IS THE SALES TAX INITIATIVE

DEAD?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

PEOPLE IN THE POLLING IN EARLY

JANUARY, THEY WERE WILLING TO

PAY MORE.

54% OF THE PEOPLE SAID WE'RE

WILLING TO PAY MORE TO FIX THE

ROADS IF IT'S LONG-TERM AND

PERMANENT AND WE'RE DONE WITH

THE BANDAID APPROACH.

>> SO CLEAN PROPOSAL IN NOVEMBER

WOULD PASS?

>> I THINK THAT IT HAS A BETTER

CHANCE OF PASSING THAN ONE THAT

HAS DIFFERENT COMPONENTS.

AND THE OTHER THING TOO, YOU

MENTIONED THAT MAYBE IT'S A

HYBRID, MAYBE IT'S CUTS, MAYBE

IT'S A SALES TAX INCREASE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT YOU

CAN CUT THE BUDGET MORE.

AND WHETHER YOU CAN OR NOT, I

DON'T KNOW.

BUT IF PEOPLE BELIEVE IT, FEED

THEM SOMETHING.

>> HOW ABOUT PASSION THE GAS

TAX?

>> I THINK HE'S ONTO SOMETHING.

>> REALLY?

SO DO THE LEGISLATORS EVER CALL

YOU UP?

WHEN THEY DO, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY

TO THEM?

>> I THINK I WOULD TELL THEM

THAT LOOK, YOU HAVE TO GET THIS

DONE, ONE.

THE SPOTLIGHT IS ON LANSING.

THE VOTERS HAVE SPOKEN, THEY

WANT THIS FIXED.

THEY DIDN'T LIKE THE LAST

PROPOSAL.

GET IT DONE.

AND YOU KNOW, HOW THEY DO THAT,

THAT'S FOR THE POLICYMAKERS TO

FIGURE THAT OUT.

>> 10 SECONDS, WHEN ASKED TO RUN

A NEW CAMPAIGN FOR A SALES TAX

IN NOVEMBER, WOULD YOU SIGN UP?

BASED ON WHAT IT IS.

>> I JUST GAVE IT TO YOU, YOU

KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AND THANKS TO

OUR COLLEAGUES.

NEXT WEEK, WE'LL BE HERE FOR

MORE "OFF THE RECORD."

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