>> WELCOME BACK TO THE SPECIAL EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD.
IT'S A BUSY ONE AS WE UNBUNDLE INCLUDING THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTY CONVENTIONS THE GOVERNOR'S KIDNAPPING TRIAL GO SOUTH WITH THE FBI AND A POSSIBLE DEAL INVOLVING DONALD TRUMP AND AN ENDORSEMENT IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.
SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.
>> PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY MARTIN WEHMEIER A FULL-SERVICE STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS AGENCY PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS TO PUBLIC RELATIONS DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY ENGAGEMENT.
>> NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD.
>> WELCOME BACK.
AS OFTEN HAPPENS IN THIS BUSINESS WE PUT LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM TO BED AND THAT A BIG STORY.
WHO WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE DECISION AND THE GOVERNOR KIDNAPPING CASE.
>> THERE WINNERS AND LOSERS IN EVERY TRIBE AND NO ONE SAW THIS COMING I WAS IN COURT AS THESE VERDICTS AND NON- VERDICTS WERE ANNOUNCED.
FAMILY MEMBERS WERE GASPING AND THEN THERE WERE TEARS OF JOY.
>> IS HE HAPPY HE HAD -- IS HE HAPPY?
>> DON'T OVERSTATE THE OBVIOUS.
>> IT WAS A ROLL OF THE DICE FOR THEIR SON DANIEL HERE TOOK THE STAND AND TOLD JURY THERE IS NO SERIOUS PLOT TO KIDNAP THE GOVERNOR.
HARRIS HAD TO BEEN FOUND NOT GUILTY ON KIDNAPPING CONSPIRACY TO BOMB CHARGES AND THE ILLEGALS SHORT BARREL RIFLE CHARGE APPEARED >> HE DID AN INCREDIBLE JOB TELLING THE TRUTH AT THE JURY BELIEVED HIM AND I'M SO HAPPY THEY GAVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THAT PURE >> IT'S A STUNNING DEFEAT FOR THE FEDS THE FBI INVESTED SO MUCH IN THIS.
THEY MADE THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF UNDERCOVER RECORDING.
>> WE ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE OUTCOME.
WITHOUT THE JURY WOULD CONVICT CONVICT BASED ON THE EVIDENCE WE PUT FORWARD.
>> BRANDON WAS FOUND NOT GUILTY ON HIS CHARGE CONSPIRACY TO KIDNAP AT THE GOVERNOR.
THE JURY'S VIDEOS OF HIM, AND THAT HE WOULD TAKE NO PRISONERS.
>> IF THIS WHOLE THING STARTS TO HAPPEN I TELL YOU WHAT I AM TAKING OUT AS MANY OF THOSE AS I CAN.
EVERY SINGLE ONE.
>> HIS ATTORNEY SAID IT WAS FREE SPEECH IS NOT A CRIME AND THIS WAS NEVER A PLOT.
>> ARE GOVERNOR WAS NEVER IN ANY DANGER AND I THINK THE JURY DIDN'T GET ALL OF IT BUT THEY SMELLED ENOUGH OF IT.
>> IS HE HAPPY?
>> I'M SURE IT IS IT IS HIS BIRTHDAY.
>> TURNS OUT THEY WERE RELEASED FROM CUSTODY WITHIN MINUTES THEY HAD BEEN LOCKED UP SINCE THEY WERE ARRESTED A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.
THIS WAS A JURY OF SIX WOMEN IN SIX MEN'S IDENTITIES ARE NOT REVEALED PUBLICLY EVEN DEFENSE ATTORNEYS DO NOT KNOW WHO THEY ARE.
JURORS WERE TOLD BY THE JUDGE IF YOU WANT TO TALK WITH THE ATTORNEYS AND OTHER THIS IS OVER YOU CALL THEM AND THEY DIDN'T TALK WITH US AS THEY LEFT COURT HERE THIS AFTERNOON.
NO ONE KNOWS WHAT WENT ON INSIDE THE JURY ROOM FOR THE LAST FIVE DAYS DURING THE MONTH OF THIS TRIAL.
>> AS OUR RACHEL HOLLIS' STORY PLAYING OUTPOST WOULD HAPPENED LAST FRIDAY.
>> WE HAVE TO REMEMBER AND LOOK INTO THE STATE CASES OF THIS IS FAR FROM OVER IN MANY CASES I THINK THAT NEXT, FIRST, WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM BUT THIS WAS A SHOCK FOR EVERYONE WHEN THIS HAPPENED.
NOT NECESSARILY THAT SOME PEOPLE GOT OFF BUT THAT THERE WAS NO CONVICTIONS OF ANY KIND SO FAR.
WE DO HAVE TWO MORE TRIALS TO COME HERE WITH THE STATE TRIAL BUT I THINK THERE WAS THE FREE SPEECH DEFENSE BUT FOR HARRIS HE HAD A LOT OF CHARGES THAT HE WAS FACING AND THERE WAS MORE EVIDENCE FOR HIM AS WELL AND SO I THINK MAYBE JIM YOU COULD SPEAK TO THIS MORE BUT I WAS SURPRISED THAT THINGS PLAYED OUT THE WAY THEY DID.
>> NO ONE SAW THIS COMING.
HARRIS, WE ALL THOUGHT HE WOULD GET CONVICTED ON THAT GUN CHARGE BECAUSE THE TESTIMONY WAS HE HAD THE THE SHORT-BARRELED ILLEGAL RIFLE THAT WAS A NO-BRAINER HE HAD POSSESSION SO WHAT WENT ON IN THE MAINZ OF THE JURORS?
BUT MOVING FORWARD THIS IS WHAT I FIND INTERESTING AND YOU WILL LOVE THIS BECAUSE IT'S A POLITICAL ANGLE.
CREWS AND THE DRIVER SEAT NOW?
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND HERE'S WHY SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE TWO STATE CASES IN JACKSON COUNTY AND THOSE ARE HER CHARGES AND THAT SHE CAN CHARGE THESE GUYS YOU ARE EQUATED WITH STATE CHARGES AND IT'S NOT DOUBLE JEOPARDY IT IS AN ELECTION YEAR FOR HER.
WILL SHE DO THAT?
>> YES AS EVER WOULD HAVE SAID THIS IS NOT OVER BUT IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WERE GASPS AS YOU KNOW.
WE HEARD THE RESPONSE FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE NOT FROM THE GOVERNOR DIRECTLY THE DAY OF THE CHARGES AND PUTTING THIS TO CONTEXT SAYING THAT THE FACT THAT THERE WERE NO CONVICTIONS IT THIS MESSAGE AND CONTINUES UNDER HEATED RHETORIC AND THE VIOLENCE IN SOME CASES WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE PASS FEW YEARS AND THIS POLITICAL MOMENT THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN WHICH I THINK FOR MANY IT WAS NOT NECESSARILY JUST THE FACT THAT IT WAS A SIGNAL THAT WAS WE HAD DEMOCRATS TALKING ABOUT THAT AGAIN THE DAY AFTER THEY WERE NOMINATED.
>> WE TALK ABOUT THE TIME WHERE PEOPLE ARE DIVIDED AND THIS IS SOMETHING THE PEOPLE FORGET ABOUT OFTEN WHEN IT COMES TO A JURY YOU HAVE TO SELECT 12 PEOPLE RANDOMLY TRY TO FIND 12 PEOPLE AT THIS STATE THAT A GREAT ON ANY POLITICAL MATTER THAT YOU SELECT RANDOMLY AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE ON THE MIND OF ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE FBI AND PROSECUTORS ACROSS THE STATE.
>> SPEAKING OF THAT JURY QUESTION MATT SNYDER WHO IS INCREDIBLY SMART AND A FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR HIMSELF SAID HE WAS SURPRISED THAT THE JUDGE DIDN'T ASK THE JURY MORE QUESTIONS AT THE BEGINNING ABOUT WHAT BIASES THEY MAY HAVE.
LET'S REMEMBER EVEN SOME OF THESE JURORS THAT SAY I AM A NEWS JUNKIE BUT I HAVEN'T FILED THE CASE THAT MUCH AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING BUT ALSO YOUR POINT ABOUT MOVING FORWARD AND ALSO ANOTHER THING THAT MATHIEU SNYDER SAID THEY GOT SMART WISE THAT YOU CAN GO AND IF THE JURORS WANT TO BE INTERVIEWED AND AND THEY MAY JUST DO THAT IF THE JURORS ARE WILLING TO AND SAY THIS IS WHAT DIDN'T WORK FOR US.
AND IF THEY DO TRY THE RETRIAL AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE WILL BE AND THAT'S WHAT ANDREW BURCH SAID IN THE STATEMENT EVEN THOUGH HE WAS NOT SUPER CLEAR BUT THAT THEY COULD IF THE JURORS ARE WILLING TO SAY HERE IS WHAT FOR WORK -- WORKED FOR US AND WHAT DID NOT AND IT COULD AGAIN JUST BE A JURY OF YOUR PEERS ALL 12 A DEGREE I SAT AS A MURRAY DISH MURDER TRIAL AS A JUROR AND ONE HOLDOUT CAN MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.
>> THE FBI TOOK A HIT ON THIS THE ENTRAPMENT THING RESONATED WITH THE JURY.
>> I THINK WILL THESE JURORS DECIDE TO TALK AND IF THEY DO I THINK ALL THESE PROSECUTORS FOR THE UPCOMING TRIALS ARE WAITING FOR THAT TO HAPPEN TO FIND OUT WHAT DIDN'T WORK WHAT DO WE NEED TO HIT ON MORE FOR THE NEXT FEW TRIALS BECAUSE THAT WILL BE THE KEY AND IT WILL BE THE DEFENSE OF THE PROSECUTOR GOING FORWARD.
>> I THINK OF THE JURORS GO PUBLIC MY THING IS THEY WILL SHOW UP ON FOX NEWS CHANNEL ON CABLE NATIONALLY THEY WILL REACH OUT AND WANT THEIR STORY OUT THERE THEY WILL TALK WITH THE PRODUCER BEHIND THE SCENES AND WORK OUT THE CONVERSATION AND THESE WILL BE THE QUESTIONS.
THEY WILL BE ABLE TO TELL THEIR STORY AND THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THEY LOST ON A GROUP OF GOVERNMENT PEOPLE.
THEY DIDN'T GO TO THE JURY.
THERE WASN'T ENOUGH EVIDENCE.
>> WHEN YOU HEAR THE DIALOGUE THAT THEY WENT TO HER VACATION COTTAGE AND STAKED OUT THE PLACE WITH A MEN AND WOMEN CONCLUDE THAT THEY WERE JUST SHOOTING THE BREEZE?
WE WASTED FRIDAY OR SATURDAY NIGHT DRIVING TO WHERE THEY WERE WITHOUT DISCLOSING THE LOCATION?
AT THE RHETORIC IN THE TRIAL SEEM TO POINT TOWARD SOME SORT OF CONVICTION.
I WAS NOT THERE BUT YOU TELL ME.
>> IS A JUDGE GAVE THEM A SPECIFIC INSTRUCTION THAT SAID EVEN IF YOU JURORS BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS AN IMPOSSIBLE PLOT TO CARRY OUT YOU HAVE TO SET THAT PART ASIDE AND SO WE'RE JUST SPECULATING WHAT'S INSIDE THE MAINZ OF THE JURORS BUT THERE WAS A PLOT BUT AS I HAVE LOOKED BACK AT THIS THERE WAS A STORY BUT NOT AN ENDING TO THE STORY.
THERE IS NOTHING TO THE CASE THERE ALL ARRESTED SIMULTANEOUSLY THROUGHOUT THE STATE.
ALL 14 BUT THERE IS NEVER ANY EVIDENCE THAT WE WILL ALL MEET ON THE 15TH OF OCTOBER OR THE 20TH OF OCTOBER YEAR HERE YOU'RE HERE YOU'RE HERE AND THAT'S THE END GAME.
THAT WAS NOT THE END GAME TO THIS PLOT THOUGH A JUROR COULD SAY IT WAS ALL TALK WHICH IS ONE OF THE DEFENSES.
ANOTHER WAS ENTRAPMENT.
THERE WERE PEOPLE FOR THE FEDS IN FEDS INFORMANTS AND FBI AGENT WHO'S INFILTRATED THIS AND THERE WAS EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE EGG IT ON AND ENTICED AND INDUCED TO CONTINUE THEIR PLOT.
>> WHEN WE HAD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ON A COUPLE WEEKS AGO SHE THOUGHT THIS WAS A SOLID CASE.
>> THUS TO THE GASPS AND WHEN EVERYONE WAS SO SHOCKED AND AGAIN I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE COMING IN SAYING IS THIS THE NEW NORMAL?
IS THIS THE EXPECTATION YOU HAVE AN HOUR WHEN YOU'RE ELECTED IN THE OFFICE IS THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE THREATS AND FOLKS CAN MAKE BOMBS AND DRIVE PASS YOUR PERSONAL HOME?
AND IS THIS WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES AFTER THESE FEW VIOLENT YEARS IN AMERICAN POLITICS?
>> IS A STORY IS NOT GOING AWAY?
>> NOT AT ALL.
WHAT WE HAVE SEEN PLAY OUT IS SOME REPUBLICANS HAVE STARTED TO WEAVE A CONSPIRACY THEORY ABOUT THE GOVERNOR AND THE AUTHORITIES AND THERE IS NO EVIDENCE BEHIND IT BUT IT IS A RESONATING.
>> LET'S PUT THIS ON THE TABLE.
SAUL DONNELL HINTED THAT MAY THE GOVERNOR WAS BEHIND THIS PLOT WITH THE FBI DID I HEAR THAT CORRECTLY?
>> ON ITS FACE IT IS RIDICULOUS BECAUSE WHO IS AN OFFICE IN CHARGE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AT THE TIME THE PLOT WAS INVESTIGATED?
IT WAS DONALD TRUMP AND IN THE BEGINNING HE WAS TAKING CREDIT FOR HIS.
PEOPLE IF YOU LOOK AT THIS TIME LINE AND HOW THIS PLAYED OUT BACK IN 2020 THIS THEORY HAS NOTHING TO IT BUT PEOPLE ARE SO CONSPIRACY MINDED THAT THIS IS RESONATING.
>> IN MY REPLIES IN THE JURY'S DECISION THERE I STARTED TO SEE A LOT OF JANUARY 6 WHICH PRODUCED JANUARY 6 WAS A HOAX IT'S FBI AS WELL AND THOSE PEOPLE START TO GET OUT NOW I THINK YOU'LL END UP BEING -- IT'S A NATIONAL STORY BUT IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE A NATIONAL STORY AND POTENTIALLY HAVING THIS DOMINO EFFECT OF WHAT CAN TRUST.
AND PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSPIRACY MINDED WILL FEED INTO THAT MORE AND SAY WHAT CAN WE TRUST ANYMORE.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.
YOU MAY NOT BELIEVE THE STORY BUT LET'S LOOK AT WHAT MIGHT BE GOING GOING ON.
>> FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP HAS ENDORSED LOTS OF CANDIDATES IN MICHIGAN RUNNING FOR OFFICE BUT IN THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S RACE TO DEFEAT THE WOMAN FROM MICHIGAN QUOTE UNQUOTE DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN ALL CRICKETS ON THE ENDORSEMENT FRONT HOWEVER TO MICHIGAN SOURCES NOW CONTEND THAT MR. TRUMP WILL ENDORSE THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY UNDER THESE CONDITIONS, POLITICAL AND CONSULTANT JON YOUNG IS WORKING TO GET MATTHEW TO PERNOD THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL WHICH MR. TRUMP WANTS UNDER THIS ALLEGED DEAL IF HE DELIVERS A NUMBER ANOTHER MEDICATION FOR DEPRESSION OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT WILL THEN DELIVER HIS ENDORSEMENT FOR THE CLIENT FOR GOVERNOR.
JOHNSON.
I MICHIGAN POLLSTER AND PUNDITS ARGUE THAT THIS IS A GAME CHANGER.
>> ON A SCALE OF ONE TO TEN IT'S A TEN.
IT DOESN'T GET BIGGER THAN THAT.
>> THE NOMINATION REALLY WILL BE DECIDED BY AN EVER DONALD TRUMP ENDORSES AND IF HE ENDORSES PERRY JOHNSON THEN THAT WILL BE A VERY SIGNIFICANT EVENT IN THIS CAMPAIGN.
>> AND POLITICAL PUNDIT BILL BALLENGER CONCURS.
>> THESE POLLS SHOW THAT 80 PERCENT OF REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO VOTE FOR CANDIDATE WHO IS ENDORSED BY TRUMP.
>> MR. TRUMP'S OFFICE HAS NOT CONFIRMED THE STORY BUT IF TRUE WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, ALL 11?
LOOK COULD THEY BE THINKING?
>> YOU THINK YOU HOPE IT'S NOT TRUE.
>> YOU THINK IT WOULD SET SOMETHING IN MOTION THAT COULD LEAD TO JOHNSON BEING ABLE TO BE PERCEIVED AS THE FRONT RUNNER.
>> SO IF YOU'RE KEVIN WINKY HER TUTOR DIXON AND SAUL DONNELL AND YOU HEAR THE STORY FOR THE FIRST TIME WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> I THINK THEY REALIZE THAT THE JIG MAY BE UP HERE >> THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT OF PERRY JOHNSON WE WILL KNOW AFTER APRIL 23RD IF THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS.
>> WHEN YOU HEARD THIS YOU SAID IT'S BUBIK IS THAT SHE YOU WHEN YOU HEARD THE STORIES THAT YOU THINK IS ON SOMETHING.
>> LOOK COULD BE POSSIBLE?
SURE.
>> DOESN'T THIS SOUND LIKE DONALD TRUMP AND JON YOUNG?
>> YES AND YES AND IT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE ANY OF THESE THINGS MAY BE DONALD TRUMP MAKES A DEAL UNTIL HE DOESN'T AND IT BUT TO THE POINT I THINK THERE IS ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING THERE THAT WE KNOW ALL OF THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, ALL 1,472 OF THEM THERE WILL BE LIKELY IF A FEW ALASKA IN APRIL 19TH AT 4:00 P.M.
BUT ALL OF THEM WANT THE DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE AT LEAST IT GETS THEM THROUGH THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT DOES THE ENDORSEMENT DO COME THE GENERAL?
AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SHORTSIGHTED BUT YOU HAVE TO GET TO THE NEXT ELECTION AND SO OF COURSE THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE WANTS P OR ?
HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT TUTOR DIXON IT SEEMED LIKE MAYBE THERE WAS SOME LOVE IS THERE BUT YES.
>> SHE HAS SO MANY ON HER STAFF WITH CONNECTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT THAT ARE THAT COMES FROM.
>> THAT'S TRUE BUT THE FORMER PRESIDENT MADE MULTIPLE COMMENTS THAT ARE GLOWING ABOUT TUTOR DIXON WHICH IS MORE YOU CAN SAY FOR.
JOHNSON WHO HE DIDN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE WHEN HE CAME TO MACOMB COUNTY.
>> HE RECOGNIZED THEM IN A FLORIDA SAYING THE POLLING NUMBERS HAVE BEEN GOOD.
TAKE IT'S HARD TO SAVE IT'S TRUE OR NOT BUT IF IT IS IT'S NOT SURPRISING PICK THE PEOPLE TRUMP HAS BEEN ENDORSING HAS ALWAYS BEEN A GAME OF HOW IT COULD HELP HIM EVERYONE HE HAS ENDORSED SO FAR HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD AT THE VERY LEAST SKEPTICISM ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION AND THOSE RESULTS AND SOME OF THEM STRONGLY PULLING IT THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT TRUMP HAS SHARED BUT I THINK HE IS SETTING UP A KINGDOM HERE IN MICHIGAN THAT WILL BE FOCUSED ON HIM SHOULD HE DECIDE TO RUN SHOULD HE POSSIBLY LOSE IN THE NEXT ELECTION THAT WILL SIDE WITH HIM WHO WOULD GO ALONG WITH THAT AS GOVERNOR I GUESS WE DON'T TOTALLY KNOW IT, TIM MAYBE YOU KNOW BETTER.
>> WE WILL FIND OUT.
THIS IS THE POINT.
WE WILL KNOW WHETHER THE DEAL WAS DELIVERED AND HOW THE AG RACE LOOKS.
>> THERE'S A LOT TO PLAY OUT IN THIS THIS OVER OUT -- OVERLAPPED ANOTHER TOPIC THAT COULD COME OUT HERE THE RECENT COUNTY DELEGATE CONVENTIONS AND BEFORE HE MOVED OFF OF THE GOVERNOR CANDIDATE I WANT TO SAY THIS, THERE IS DEEP DISSENSION WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
>> HOW GREAT IS THIS FOR US IN THE NEWS BUSINESS?
WE HAVE HIGH STAKES DRAMA BEFORE THE HIGH STAKES OF DRAMA BECAUSE WE HAVE THE HATFIELD AND THE MCCOYS FIGHTING WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
GROUND ZERO IS MACOMB COUNTY HE'S ALL OVER IT OVER THERE AND YOU HAVE A COUNTY CHAIRMAN FOR DOUBT YOU HAVE A NEW COUNTY CHAIRMAN IN.
THE NEW COUNTY CHAIRMAN IS TRYING TO BRIDGE BOTH SIDES OF IT BUT HE'S GOING AROUND WE CAN CALL OTHER RHINOCEROSES ANYMORE AND WE CAN'T DO THE LITMUS TEST, ARE YOU TRUMP ENOUGH?
THIS IS GRAND FOR US.
IT IS HIGH DRAMA.
>> THIS WAS ONE OF THE MOST WILD MEETINGS I COVERED IN MY CAREER.
THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT REALLY BELIEVE THE FUTURE OF THE UNITED STATES IS ON THE LINE ON APRIL 23RD IN THE SELECTION AND IN MANY WAYS IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU LOVE TO COVER AS A JOURNALIST BECAUSE REALLY IT IS A TURNING POINT FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
THE PARTIES AT A CROSSROADS.
APRIL 23RD WILL BE THE FIRST MOMENT WHERE THEY DECIDE WHICH WAY IT WILL GO.
>> APRIL 23RD IS THE SPRING NOMINATING CONVENTION WERE ALL REPUBLICANS GATHER AND PICK THE AG CANDIDATES AND THEY WILL NOT PICK A GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE.
THAT IS THAT OF THE PRIMARY BUT A LOT IS RIDING ON THIS CONVENTION.
>> NO DOUBT.
MANY PEOPLE SAY THIS IS A LITMUS TEST FOR SEEING HOW STRONG TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT IS HERE IN MICHIGAN AND WE SAW THAT CERTAINLY P A ?
CAN SPEAK MORE ABOUT THE CONVENTION BUT LET'S REMEMBER THAT WHAT HAPPENS ON THE 23RD IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO TELL US EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE PRIMARY IN AUGUST BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AT THE ZIP -- THESE THESE CONVENTIONS ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPER SUPER STRONG REPUBLICANS AND WHO WE SEE, AND PRIMARIES WILL ALWAYS BE STRONG REPUBLICANS OF COURSE THEY WILL BE THERE AS WELL BUT THERE WILL BE THIRD-PARTY AND INDEPENDENT AND THOSE WHO ARE THIS WAY ON ONE ISSUE BUT COULD GO FOR A DEMOCRAT AS WELL AND SO I THINK IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY GIVE US THE FULL ANSWER ON WHAT HAPPENS IN AUGUST AND NOVEMBER.
>> DOES A TRUMP ENDORSEMENT MEAN A TICKET IN OR IS IT A LIABILITY?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND SOME EXPERTS SAID THAT IT IS DECISIVE AND WHAT I AM HEARING FROM PEOPLE AND SEEING ON THE GROUND IS THAT IT MAY BE INFLUENTIAL BUT IT'S NOT DECISIVE AND THEN YOU LOOK AT OTHER STATES AND TRUMP IS HAVING A FEW LOSSES BEING WRAPPED UP RIGHT NOW AND IN MICHIGAN SPECIFICALLY THE CHOICE BEFORE A LOT OF THE REPUBLICANS IS GOING WITH DONALD TRUMP WHO THEY SUPPORT IT'S NOT ABOUT ANTI- TRUMP OR PRO TRUMP BUT HOW MUCH DO THEY VALUE AND WHO DID THEY THINK GIVES THEM THE BEST CHANCE THE GENERAL ELECTION.
THESE REPUBLICANS AT THE END OF THE DAY WANT TO WIN.
THEY WANT TO BE NESSEL AND WITMER AND THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE A CALCULATION, DO THEY THINK TRUMP HAS THE RIGHT PATH OR GOING FOR THE SWING VOTERS IN THE MIDDLE IS A BETTER PATH?
>> YES AND AT WHAT POINT HAVE YOU ALMOST GONE TOO FAR ABOUT PUSHING OUT THE PARK?
AND THERE ARE FOLKS LIKE JEFF TIMBER WHO IS LIKE YOU SORT OF UNDERSTAND AND YOU GET.
LIKE HE IS JUST LIKE YOU HAVE FOLKS CALL MIKE SHARKEY A RINO RIGHT NOW AND HE'S COMING OUT ENDORSING TUTOR DIXON SAYING HE WILL GO AGAINST SOME OF THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENTS FOR SITTING CANDIDATES RIGHT NOW AND THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE.
>> BUT THERE MUST BE FRUSTRATION IN THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
SOME PEOPLE THINK IT IS ATROPHIED OVER THE YEARS BUT TERM LEONARD GOING TO DELEGATE SAYING LOOK IF WE ARE GOING TO MAKE DANA NESSEL THAN THIS GUY THAT YOU WANT TO PICK JUST CANNOT GET IT DONE.
>> AND THE DATA SHOWS THAT THIS IS NOT MAGICAL THINKING.
LOOK AT 2018 TOM LEONARD CAME WITHIN IN THREE.
>> EXACTLY.
THAT WAS THE CLOSEST.
TO THE CLOSEST SPREAD OF ALL OF THOSE STATEWIDE CANDIDATES.
THIS IS NOT THEORETICAL THINKING WE HAVE SEEN IS MAGICAL OF.
>> MY POINT IS LOGIC WHEN IT COMES TO SOME TRUMP PEOPLE THE CRITICS SAY IS NONEXISTENT YOU CANNOT LOGICALLY REASON WITH THEM ABOUT THE OUTCOME AND TAKE THIS TO WHERE IT GOES IN NOVEMBER.
>> RESOLVE THIS BY GETTING RON WEISER AND MADDOCK ON THE SHOW AND GET THEM IN THESE CHAIRS AND DISCUSS IT WITH THEM.
YOU WON'T COME ON THE SHOW WILL THEY?
>> WE COULD LOWER THE NATIONAL DEBT BUT IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
>> I UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT PUBLICLY.
>> ITS DIRTY WASH. >> HOW DO YOU WIN IN NOVEMBER WITH A SPLIT PARTY?
>> THE PEOPLE IN THE PARTY THAT ARE SUPPORTING THEM THEY DO HAVE A LOGICAL ARGUMENT.
THEY ARE MAKING AN ARGUMENT.
TOM LEONARD LOST TO NESSEL WE HAVE SEEN THAT BUT THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY NEED TO CHASE DOWN TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN STRATEGY BECAUSE BASICALLY THE ESTABLISHMENT DONORS ARE MOVING AWAY FROM THE PARTY AND THE PARTY CANNOT COUNT ON THOSE PEOPLE TO FIND THEM ANYMORE I THINK THERE IS A DECISION THAT HAS BEEN MADE LIKE WE NEED THE GRASSROOT DONORS THAT DONALD TRUMP UNLOCKED YOU WON'T GET THOSE IF YOU GO THE USUAL WAY THAT YOU PLAY THE ELECTIONS.
IT IS AN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT DECISION THAT THE PARTY IS CAUGHT IN.
EITHER WAY THEY GO THERE WILL BE PROBLEMS.
>> WILL WE HAVE A BREAK PARTY?
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
>> THE DEMOCRATS IT DID HAVE A CONVENTION AND IT SHOWS WHERE THEY ARE IN THE RUN DOWN IN THE STORY WE HAVE TWO MINUTES TO GO TO WHAT WE LEARN FROM THAT CONVENTION?
>> THEN NEED ANOTHER CUP OF COFFEE.
>> THE THINGS WE HAVE KNOWN BEFORE WHICH IS THAT WE HAVE JOCELYN BENSON WILL BE THE SECRETARY OF STATE CANDIDATE, DANA NESSEL AS ATTORNEY GENERAL AND GRETCHEN WITMER AND GARLAND GILCHREST AS GOVERNOR AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.
WE DID HERE ARE SOME ISSUES OBVIOUSLY THAT THEY WILL BE TALKING A LOT ABOUT COMING INTO THE ELECTION ONE OF WHICH IS ABORTION RIGHTS.
TWO WEEKS TO GO THREE WEEKS AGO WE SAW -- NOPE ONE WEEK.
THERE IS NO TIME.
THE GOVERNOR CAME OUT AND SAID SHE'S USING HER AUTHORITY TO BRING ABORTION BACK TO THE FOREFRONT.
>> I HAVE A POSTER THAT SAYS THIS DECIDES THE RACE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT AND FOR YEARS AND YEARS IT'S THE ECONOMY AND THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND INFLATION AND THINGS THAT FOLKS ARE FEELING DAY IN AND DAY OUT EVERY TIME YOU DRIVE PASS A GAS STATION HOWEVER, ONCE THE SUPREME COURT RULES AND IT COULD BE ANY WEEK NOW BUT THAT COULD REALLY CHANGE THIS AGAIN FOR TURN OUT AND FOR ENTHUSIASM WITHIN THE PARTY.
>> ARE THE DEMOCRATS A GEEK TO DO THE ELECTION?
>> I THINK THEY ARE ENTHUSED ABOUT THIS.
WE HAVE TWO PARTIES THAT WILL TALK PASS EACH OTHER.
DEMOCRATS WILL BE FOCUSED ON ABORTION RIGHTS AND DEMOCRACY BEING AT STAKE AND REPUBLICANS WILL COUNSELING TRY TO BRING IT BACK TO THE ECONOMY AND GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF US TO TRY TO GET ANY OF US TO ANSWER QUESTIONS STRAIGHT ON ANY OF THIS.
>> DO WE EXPECT TO SEE JOE BIDEN HERE CAMPAIGNING WITH THE GOVERNOR?
>> I THINK HE STARTED DOING THAT AND THEN YOU KNOW HIS POLL NUMBERS ARE NOT WHERE THE MAJORITY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE AND WE SAW IT DROP OFF LAST TIME HE WAS HERE IN OCTOBER.
>> SHE WAS NOT THERE SHE WAS IN CALIFORNIA.
>> A GOOD POINT.
>> MAYBE IT WAS A COINCIDENCE.
>> AND STACY ABRAMS IN GEORGIA THERE IS A SCHEDULING CONFLICT.
>> IT GOES BACK TO THAT ASSET AND LIABILITY ISSUE THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF THE STORY AND WE'LL SEE HOW THIS THING DEVELOPS THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT.
HOW MUCH ARE CHARGING ME FOR THIS?
DO WE NEED GAS MONEY?
>> WE CAN NEGOTIATE.
>> WELCOMED OFF THE RECORD IT SO NICE TO GET YOU ON BOARD.
EVERYONE HAVE A NICE WEEKEND.
NEXT WEEK MSU JOURNAL STUDENTS DISCUSSING THE ROCK.
WE WILL SEE YOU THEN.
>> FOR MORE OF THE RECORD VISIT W K A R .COM.